Should ESO be made more casual?

Ratzkifal

Other

Many yes options only one no option? Come on.

Overworld content is too casual for my taste. Even WoW feels harder and that is good. You should be at least a little bit intimidated by 20 NPCs coming for you. That kind of ruined the beginning of CWC for me as well. We don't need the powers of Divayth Fyr to bear 40 or so factotums if shields and impulse spam do the trick as well. Of course to make grinding still possible (which some people seem to love for some reason) the exp gain should be adjusted a little bit once more. For quests too of course. My suggestion would be to introduce content with scaling difficulty, but not in the pre-one-tamriel way but by giving certain areas in a zone a higher difficulty. Dremora and Daedroths should be a lot more threatening than wolves and bandits.
Then there are DLC dungeons.. They all seem to be way too hard on release but get watered down too far afterwards. (Currently Scalecaller hard mode is giving me a tough time).
Pvp should absolutely not become "casual" but there should be viable alternatives for casual players outside of zergs.
Raids.... I haven't done a lot of top tier raiding or raiding in general to judge but it seems to be suffering from similar issues as Dungeons do.

tl;dr
Overworld needs varying difficulty with more challenging enemies inbetween.
Dungeons are fine but hardmode should be achievable for the majority/large minority. Better players need valuable loot rewards instead of exclusive cosmetics.
Pvp is fine but should offer more options to casuals outside of zergs, yet not make higher skill/strategy obsolete.
No idea about the state of raids.

Narvuntien

Other

There is plenty of causal content, questing thieves and Dark brotherhood content.

Normal dungeons are easy enough to just jump into and learn, as long as your group mates don't just run ahead and kill everything.

I feel like you actually end up better at PVP if you start it when you are bad and get better through PVP than than learning to PVE then learning to PVP.

What is missing is casual versions of harder content. I really like Normal Trials they are easy enough to find groups for they are just challenging enough that you aren't bored. But Normal DSA and Maelstrom really need an improvement in rewards the sets from there just aren't very good so the only reason to run normal is to learn it for Vet.

The normal versions of even the DLC dungeons are just way too easy but then the jump to Vet is so big. That your semi casual players get bored questing can just dps through normal dungeons but don't have the patience for learning mechanics that you have to for the harder Vet content.

AlienatedGoat

No, the game is already casual enough.

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Many yes options only one no option? Come on.

Overworld content is too casual for my taste. Even WoW feels harder and that is good. You should be at least a little bit intimidated by 20 NPCs coming for you. That kind of ruined the beginning of CWC for me as well. We don't need the powers of Divayth Fyr to bear 40 or so factotums if shields and impulse spam do the trick as well. Of course to make grinding still possible (which some people seem to love for some reason) the exp gain should be adjusted a little bit once more. For quests too of course. My suggestion would be to introduce content with scaling difficulty, but not in the pre-one-tamriel way but by giving certain areas in a zone a higher difficulty. Dremora and Daedroths should be a lot more threatening than wolves and bandits.
Then there are DLC dungeons.. They all seem to be way too hard on release but get watered down too far afterwards. (Currently Scalecaller hard mode is giving me a tough time).
Pvp should absolutely not become "casual" but there should be viable alternatives for casual players outside of zergs.
Raids.... I haven't done a lot of top tier raiding or raiding in general to judge but it seems to be suffering from similar issues as Dungeons do.

tl;dr
Overworld needs varying difficulty with more challenging enemies inbetween.
Dungeons are fine but hardmode should be achievable for the majority/large minority. Better players need valuable loot rewards instead of exclusive cosmetics.
Pvp is fine but should offer more options to casuals outside of zergs, yet not make higher skill/strategy obsolete.
No idea about the state of raids.

Lol that's what the other option is for

Agree about overworld being too easy. We neeeeeed a veteran difficulty toggle/option for overworld. I miss being able to quest without facerolling everything.

Hardmode seems fine and achievable with some work (outside of DLC dungeons - very difficult, minimal reward).

PvP needs some serious work and additions to keep it fresh. Server lag in Cyro is bad, IC is dead usually, and BG is too onesided to be a real competition. Just a mess right now.

Raids are in a good place right now with regular additions and Asylum was a step in the right direction for future trials. I'm hoping whatever comes in the next chapter takes that success into account.

Klixen

Yes, but only in hard content.

There are some really good, well thought out replies here. Sadly, I can't quote you all .

But I will add my two cents (from a new player perspective). I'm one of the people who find the game extremely hard.

Now I must preface this by saying that I have a physical condition that makes using the keyboard difficult. But I've been playing games for years and I've never struggled with any game as much as I struggle with ESO.

And from the sounds of things, some able-bodied players find the game just as hard as I do.

But for new players without gear or champion points, the game is brutal! I DIED IN THE TUTORIAL FOR GOD'S SAKE!

Then I got off the boat at Stros M'Kai and one of the first quests I was given was to recover the crown from the Goblin King. Yep, you guessed it, I died again. I actually had to wait for another player to show up before I could defeat him.

But every quest was the same, I could handle the normal mobs without trouble, but every Quest Boss was a nightmare. After being ripped apart by a Werewolf in Daggerfall (at level 10). I gave up and stopped playing.

The only reason I came back, is because there's just nothing else to play at the moment. But this time I did some research and learned just how vitally, game-changingly important gear sets are. Without a good armor set, I 'personally' find the game unplayable.

But this brings up another layer of difficulty. Crafting takes a bloody long time!

It took me over a week, but I finally managed to do it. I was able to craft myself a new set of armor and I was able to play at last! Everything was great! But then I began to out-level my gear *sigh*.

So my game play slammed to a stop AGAIN! I had to start working on my crafting again to make myself another set.

It's stupid and frustrating! But it's the only way I can handle the game's difficulty.

---

I do have a few ideas on how to address this though:

You don't have to nerf the Quest Bosses. Just make getting 'set' gear a little easier. That's the real problem. Those who have gear (and Champion Points, but that's another discussion) find everything too easy and trivial. Those of us who don't, are slaughtered on a regular basis. We just need to even the playing field.

The best low level set is 'The Armor of the Trainee'. The full 5 piece set of this armor is game changing for a new player, but the only way to get it, is to spend hours farming chests (or mobs if you're very, very lucky) in the starter zones.

So why not give it to new players as level up rewards? By level 10, I think all new players should have been given 2 rings, a necklace, chest and pants of the Trainee. That way they'll have the full 5 piece set, which makes an ENORMOUS difference to survivability. Trust me on this, I speak from experience.

This set will probably last them till around level 15. From then on, they should start replacing it with a crafted set. But they need to be taught how important crafting is to them. I'd like to see a starting quest, perhaps the very first quest they get, teach them how to craft and really, really emphasize how important it is to start researching traits and leveling their crafting skills, right from the very beginning.

As for crafting itself, how about lowering the amount of time it takes? At least for the lowbie sets. Because nobody should be forced to stop playing until they can craft some armor.

Well, that's my take on it. Sorry for the long winded post. But this game is really, really good! It just has some of the most unfair and frustrating mechanics of any game I've ever played

Abysswarrior45

No, the game is already casual enough.

vMA can be done naked, people get carried through content, overworld can be done blindfolded, PvP nowadays is just zerg with Zaan thorvokun or some other proc set on a tank with 50k hp and be annoying. Game needs a HUGE difficulty increase.

Lynx7386

Overland and most dungeons are fine. Once you learn the basic game mechanics (heavy attacks, blocking, interrupting, dodging, etc) you'll be fine in those.

DLC dungeons are in a weird spot. Some of them arent bad, but some of them are worse on normal mode than a vet trial. I think a lot of the difficulty in these dungeons has to do with unavoidable or difficult to avoid one-shot mechanics, with little to no telegraph or information for the player as to what's going on. This game has always been bad about throwing mechanics at the players without them having any in-game info to explain what those mechanics are or how to best deal with them. I remember when cradle of shadows came out with shadows of the hist and it was nearly impossible to finish on vet; There were days I'd spend 4-5 hours trying to kill velidreth and I honestly still pass up these dungeons when they're the dailys.

We need less one shot mechanics and better telegraphing in high end pve content. We need something in the game that explains what a mechanic is doing and how to avoid it prior to actually having it take effect. Learning encounters by dying over and over again to what appear to be unavoidable one shots just frustrates and alienates players from the content.

Veteran trials, however, should be hard (and arguably should be harder than they are), as that's the true endgame pve. Normal trials should be doable by even casual players with a proper group setup. There should be a very large gap in difficulty between a normal trial and a veteran trial.

Ragnarock41

Goats are awesome.

goats.

Tasear

No, the game is already casual enough.

Anotherone773 wrote: »

It a question that has a complex answer. This game does not scale well. I mean its not near as bad as WoW, but still. I think if you look at the start of the game and the end of the game, its mostly appropriate. Where it fails the most is the middle.

Starting isles are challenging enough not to faceroll when you are new, but not hard enough that you just get frustrated and quit. Mainland can be a bit more of a struggle. But once you hit CP, it starts to become significantly easier. By CP 160 all overland is pretty easy and those delve bosses that you couldnt solo at level 25 you can now steamroll without breaking sweat.

The problem is it doesnt scale. Parts of the game are either hard or easy. Not just a bit challenging. Dungeons in this game really show how bad the scaling is. Some normal dungeons are pretty hard when compared to other games, almost vet mode in fact. While vet dungeons seem to be more raid level dungeons. Other dungeons are so easy you can solo them,


Its not so much as to casual or to hard as it a big mess and has no consistency, either there is a gentle learning curve or a mountain slope. Also there is a lot of complexity in this game for no other reason other than being complex. Much of the complexity doesnt add value to the game in my opinion, only makes it more of a pain in the ass to play.

But you do have to ask yourself one thing. For a game that is 4 years old, you should see a lot more 690-720s and you dont, so why? This game has a low end game population. Which means everyone is either super casual or its terrible at retaining max level players and im getting about 5% vet player retention which is really low for an MMO especially one that is from a well known game series. This means a majority of the population is either getting bored or annoyed before they reach endgame or soon after.

I don't know you mean... I was disappointed that I don't see mid level players. It's mostly max level when I run random dungeons and most of my maxed out friends list is at or close to max.

I agree the issue is social hierarchy. There's no mid gameplay anymore. Or as to say people should feel there's content for them at all levels.

Tasear

No, the game is already casual enough.

Phage wrote: »

IsharaMeradin wrote: »

I had a pet goat as a kid.

IsharaMeradin wrote: »

I wouldn't mind a casual version of the group dungeons and trials, but I don't want to take away what is currently there. Really, just want an easier story mode where I could go in in a 2+ group, hear out the story and get a feel for the dungeon. Then I might be ready to get into a full group that wants to run and be done on the regular mode where the quest dialog gets spammed and exited quickly for that skill point.

I'd be behind reworking normal trials to be slightly easier, and then adding them to Dungeon Finder for PUG groups. I'm not sure how to make it work for 2 people, maybe make enemies scale to the number of people in the dungeon? Something like that.

Honestly, we need a normal/easy and vet option for everything in the game, and to have the difficulty progress smoothly from normal overworld all the way to vet hardmode trials.

We've got a lot of easy content in the game that vet players would like to do and be challenged by, and likewise we have a lot of hard content that "casual" players would like to experience in a non-competitive way.

I'd love for there to be more options for everyone.

Honestly normal trials are ready as is to hot queue. There's people who even solo or dou them. But even so most of community knows them or can explain it well enough that there's no issue of progress.

lucky_Sage

Other

most of the game is to easy overland is to easy for some with high cp same with all vet dungeons non-dlc. for a game that doesn't have lvl boundaries the cp system power creep is part of the problem newer dlc dungeons arnt bad where mechanics is important. unlike all base game ones where you can dps and ignore all mechanics and just run 4 dps or 3 dps 1 healer

AlienatedGoat

No, the game is already casual enough.

Tasear wrote: »

Phage wrote: »

IsharaMeradin wrote: »

I had a pet goat as a kid.

IsharaMeradin wrote: »

I wouldn't mind a casual version of the group dungeons and trials, but I don't want to take away what is currently there. Really, just want an easier story mode where I could go in in a 2+ group, hear out the story and get a feel for the dungeon. Then I might be ready to get into a full group that wants to run and be done on the regular mode where the quest dialog gets spammed and exited quickly for that skill point.

I'd be behind reworking normal trials to be slightly easier, and then adding them to Dungeon Finder for PUG groups. I'm not sure how to make it work for 2 people, maybe make enemies scale to the number of people in the dungeon? Something like that.

Honestly, we need a normal/easy and vet option for everything in the game, and to have the difficulty progress smoothly from normal overworld all the way to vet hardmode trials.

We've got a lot of easy content in the game that vet players would like to do and be challenged by, and likewise we have a lot of hard content that "casual" players would like to experience in a non-competitive way.

I'd love for there to be more options for everyone.

Honestly normal trials are ready as is to hot queue. There's people who even solo or dou them. But even so most of community knows them or can explain it well enough that there's no issue of progress.

Crag normal trials probably, but I think most average PUGs would have problems with MoL and HoF.

I guess it also depends on what level the gate would be on trials.

mocap

No, the game is already casual enough.

more than 90% of the game is already casual. 15 *** locations full of casual mobs. Main story line is easy as mudcrab, and bosses dying in 5-6 seconds.

The only true enjoyable content are dalies in Craglorn, locations such as Skyreach, School of Warriors etc. It isn't that hard as vMA, but waaaay harder than overland questing.

Slick_007

hawaiian shirt fridays!

Derra

Yes, but only in CP Enlightenment.

I think the game struggles to attract new players from a pvp POV.

This is in my opinion partly due to CP (and gear) grind taking too long for players not commiting several hours to playing per day.

Imo time requirements to be competetive need to be lowered (not the actual difficulty) over the lifespan of a game to open it up to a broader playerbase. Eso is 4 years old now and it´s becoming very noticeable that it´s struggeling with attracting new players for certain forms of content.

FoolishHuman

Yes, but only in hard content.

You already know many people coming here are extreme min-maxers that would never say yes to this. However in my opinion the thing that really is very excluding are veteran DLC dungeons and trials. There seems to be some power creep going on where the newest veteran content is made with max CP players (maybe even min-maxers) in mind and it's getting harder and harder since the CP goes higher and higher. I don't think that's a good development. You can see it's a problem when you look how many ESO+ members wish they could exclude DLC dungeons from the group finder. It's because they are a completely different category of content.

Ilithyania

Goats are awesome.

lost some friends to the CP gap.

Not everyone want to, or have time to real CP grind

Kram8ion

No, the game is already casual enough.

I'm not only casual but I'm a filthy one

jaschacasadiob16_ESO

You get accelerated XP, exchange items, improve items, retrait items, share drops and mounts and items account-wide. Not to mention bank and gold. Isn't this casual enough already?

You might wanna try some good old arcade games collections.

Vanya

No, the game is already casual enough.

Personal opinion purely in comparison of the other MMO's I've played and the amount of Freedom particular player has since very moment of the the creation. Currently level 23 {Nord,Dragonknight/Dual wield Spec} Few alternative characters as well.

Please note I have been playing the Elder Scrolls Online for approximately 20 hours and it is more than enough to write my own statement. I was an active player in the following games as well ; LOTRO, Star wars the Old Republic,World of Warcraft, somewhat less active in Warhammer and The Rift.

After venturing within the Lands of Tamriel I have never felt so casual But in a very positive way and which is also fantastic hardcore. In some sort you have incredible freedom indeed! A choice, Look at it from my perspective.

No level restrictions, you can in theory level up for only exploration and Dungeons/Dolmens where they?

Ultimate exploration, Lore, the Ability to use any weapon. Unbelievable versatility. I have found ways to slay a foe without effort and sometimes I can challenge myself to use only light or heavy attack Or Magical abilities, I mean the amount of combinations are shocking!

The generous rewards and awards for each level gain, skills, attribute points ,weapons and so on.

It might eventually get more Casual if the ever reduce foes HP,Damage ,resistances, but why do it furthermore? I assume it was difficult in the start, but its normal that over years MMO's become more "simplified" and expanded but it means not in a more negative way. For me sincerely ESO is a perfect match of hardcore Solo/Casual Combat gameplay experience while combing the perfect elements of Lore/Story and unequalled World design,

A heaven for casual player if you are wise , passionate and patient enough

Sincere Regards

randomkeyhits

No, the game is already casual enough.

@OP it all depends on the target audience really and its not consistent through the game.

• If you are releasing content which over half the player base can complete then for sure its definitely casual enough.
• If a quarter can complete it then its targeted to informed casuals
• if a tenth can complete it then its aimed at dedicated, build aware players
• if 1% can complete then its aimed at the "elite" (whatever they are)

ZoS have the numbers, they know what amount of player achievement is out there.

The question is does it make sense for them to release content that only 1% or 10% might actually get to complete? It always amuses me when a game developer is bigging up a new release and 95+% of the player base might never ever see it.

From my point of view the game is plenty casual enough and it has had enough layers that allow me to progress as a player, rather than my character. Over-world, then delves then public dungeons, then normal dungeons then normal dlc dungeons then vet dungeons... Each has required me to up my game. As I've never been a fan of instances which demand a strict or strict-sh rotation (so boring....) I may or may not dip into trials, unsure as yet.

My characters progression is pretty much there, choice of gold gear, most skill points almost at the CP cap (again...) and as a player there is a final uplift if I want to go for it to achieve in trials.

The people who get to trials level turn around and look back and complain that the rest of the game is too casual, tough, that part of it is for the masses, deal with it. If you are complaining its too casual and havn't yet completed the trials then stop complaining and do the content ahead of you.

Maura_Neysa

No, the game is already casual enough.

Actually if anything I think it needs to expand in the hard content.

A year ago when I was new I had no issues getting stuck because things where too hard. Sure I couldn’t do world bosses on my own. It took until I got to Daggerfall before discovering Guilds, but the starter zones were just fine. I'm actually still in that first guild. Now i'm the one helping new.

As I grew I felt like the game grew well with me. It took about 6 months to get to the point when I was fine with vet DLC

Now that I'm CP cry though, questing is too easy. Even if I have it vet only Craiglorn delves off some challenge. I wish the whole of Tamriel was at that level.

By the way animation canceling is not vital to the game. You naturally pick up some of it but still I am tanking 90% of the time so I'm not very proficient. l hit at 22k which is plenty for everything. With only vet DLC and Trials needing more.

Mitrenga

No, the game is already casual enough.

Normal mode of the content is your friend. Try that.
Mechanics are also not very hard to avoid if you know how to enter Youtube.

Thannazzar

Other

The game itself is fine. The content rewards should reflect the content. Ie vet and hard mode dungeons and trials should drop gear for that purpose, progression. Cosmetics should not be tied to the highest level content in the game that's accessible to a minority of the player base.

Maura_Neysa

No, the game is already casual enough.

Thannazzar wrote: »

The game itself is fine. The content rewards should reflect the content. Ie vet and hard mode dungeons and trials should drop gear for that purpose, progression. Cosmetics should not be tied to the highest level content in the game that's accessible to a minority of the player base.

There are two options for high level content rewards. Gear or fluff, you’re saying you want less fluff and more gear? You want more BiS weapons and gears that only the top10% get? Or shall it stay fluff not effecting how big the gap is between good and average players. Fluff that’s just pure bragging rights and that’s all?

Dapper Dinosaur

I don't think it should be more casual, but it absolutely needs a complete overhaul on the in-game documentation of how stats affect everything, the fact that only whole numbers take effect in champion points, and every other system the game has that players have had to figure out for themselves that have no in-game documentation ANYWHERE, or at best pathetically mediocre documentation.

People shouldn't have to go on the internet to find Alcast guides for builds, dungeon mechanics, maps, and so on.

blacksghost

I’ve enjoyed playing for a tiny bit over a year. I’ve not mastered dps I’m never going to manage to solo some of the group content. I’ve made it to cp720 and only just poked my nose into maelstrom arena. Given my play style doesn’t suit the “rush through everything and miss half of it out” brigade I’ve probably done as much now as I will ever do. The game as intended is friendly enough to folk like me only let down at the end by players. But yeah wow it’s been a great year of a great game.

Navras

No, the game is already casual enough.

The game looks well balanced to me: it's a good mix of trivial, accessible and hard stuff to do.

What I don't like, but I don't consider it related to the "casual - not casual" topic, is that animation cancelling legal bug. I mean even if I almost mastered it, after quite a long time trying, it doesn't make any sense and it's ruining the combat experience and fluidity for everybody.

BigBadVolk

Goats are awesome.

This game only need more goats and goat mounts

malicia

No, the game is already casual enough.

Nope, game's casual enough. I'm a casual player and the only PvE content I haven't done yet is vMA, vMoL, vHoF, vAS+1 and vAS+2.

As a Christmas season event my casual guild did nSO with <lvl20 chars without allocating CP. Was surprisingly easy to do.

jaschacasadiob16_ESO

malicia wrote: »

Nope, game's casual enough. I'm a casual player and the only PvE content I haven't done yet is vMA, vMoL, vHoF, vAS+1 and vAS+2.

So this means you did vCraglorn trials. Unless you were (more or less) carried, that hardly qualifies yo uas a casual player.