Should ESO be made more casual?

Voxicity

No, the game is already casual enough.

I would quit and never look back if it went even more casual. It's bad enough 1 shotting every mob in every overland map (hence why I don't even bother with questing in DLC's)

If I wanted a story, I would read a book. I want a story with some challenge integrated into it. Nothing terribly hard, but 1 shotting everything starts to become a chore

NewBlacksmurf

Other

I don’t think casual means what you think.

Someone’s frequency of play doesn’t determine their skill level.

AlienatedGoat

No, the game is already casual enough.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

I don’t think casual means what you think.

Someone’s frequency of play doesn’t determine their skill level.

"Casual" is the term that has been used in the previous posts I remarked on in my OP, hence why I used it here. Feel free to suggest a better term.

Kiralyn2000

Goats are awesome.

What is up with all these polls recently....

AlienatedGoat

No, the game is already casual enough.

Voxicity wrote: »

I would quit and never look back if it went even more casual. It's bad enough 1 shotting every mob in every overland map (hence why I don't even bother with questing in DLC's)

If I wanted a story, I would read a book. I want a story with some challenge integrated into it. Nothing terribly hard, but 1 shotting everything starts to become a chore

I feel the same way every time a new DLC drops. I'm barely even interested in the upcoming chapter because of this.

I don't get to enjoy most of the new content that comes out because it's just not fun to faceroll the overwhelming majority of it. I can even take off armor and heavy attack through it and its still no challenge.

It's just sad that new content is usually so boring and unchallenging for vet players.

AlienatedGoat

No, the game is already casual enough.

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

What is up with all these polls recently....

At least you chose the right option.

MLRPZ

Goats are awesome.

Goats, obviously

boombazookajd

No, the game is already casual enough.

rustic_potato wrote: »

If they make it any more casual they will have to give achievements for logging into the game.

Don't they do this already?

tplink3r1

Other

It's TOO casual.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

No, the game is already casual enough.

Now I have seen everything.

AlienatedGoat

No, the game is already casual enough.

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Now I have seen everything.

joaaocaampos

No, the game is already casual enough.

Jewelcrafting is coming. Is there anything more casual than that?

The Golden NPC will only sell monster sets?

Danikat

I think it's hard to say, especially because everyone will have different definitions of casual players and different priorities.

For example I consider myself a casual player because I don't play every day and often take long breaks from the game, and because I'm not interested in anything competitive (both PvP and leaderboards) or in focusing on 'end game' content - I prefer exploring the open-world maps and doing quests. I'm also not interested in min-maxing or worried about making sure I have the best race for my build or whatever, I prefer to make a character I think will be fun to play.

But I like difficult combat in RPGs. I normally play single-player games on hard mode, or deliberately use builds/equipment I know is not ideal to make the game harder. I'm actually more likely to enjoy a fight where I go in, get slaughtered and then have to figure out what I did wrong and try again than one where I do it easily on the first try.

My husband also calls himself a casual player but he's almost the exact opposite - he likes to focus on one game and do as much as he can before getting bored/stuck and moving on to something else and although he enjoys interesting mechanics in combat he's very likely to get bored and give up if it takes more than a couple of attempts to get through one fight.

Trying to balance a game for both of us is almost impossible, unless difficulty settings are an option. (Dragon Age Inquisition did a good job: he played on easy mode, never paused in combat, only controlled his own character and kept the camera behind her so he could watch the cool animations. I played in hard mode, paused instantly on entering combat and after every couple of skills, used the over-head tactical mode and coordinated the whole party. He once watched me doing a fight he'd done earlier than day and said it was like a different game the way I played it.)

In ESO where the difficulty depends on a lot of factors and not all of them are in the developers control (most obviously how many people are around and what level/CP they are and how good they are at the time) I think it would be almost impossible to balance so we'd both be happy.

flguy147ub17_ESO wrote: »

The one issue i have is from brand new players starting from scratch. Getting to 720 is a freakin nightmare. Especially if you playing through the content like the game was designed which i think majority of players actually do on their very first character. They to play through the zones, Caldwells gold, Then the DLC zones, Mages Guild, Undaunted, Crafting, Main Story.
It really would take so long playing the way the Developers actually designed the game to be played. And by the time they get to 720, CP will be in the 800s.

But why is that a problem? If they can play all the zones, Cadwell's Silver & Gold, DLC zones, Mages Guild, Undaunted, Crafting & the Main story - in other words the vast majority of the game - without being CP720 why is it such a problem that it can take a long time to get there?

Ok, sure, if a new player joins because their friend pressures them into it and said friend is an "end game" player who only ever does vet dungeons and trials then the newbie is likely to feel under pressure to level up, get CP and get a full set of appropriate equipment as fast as possible so they'll be permitted into their friends groups. But I doubt most new players are in that situation. And if they are then IMO a better fix would be for their friend to break from their routine for a bit of time each night/weekend/whatever and play the levelling content with the newbie, which is exactly what One Tamriel was intended to allow us to do.

Vaoh wrote: »

Pretty sure the only content that a “casual player” can’t complete are the Veteran dungeons and trials. Very tiny fraction of the game.

And then if those players improve, they can go after the Veteran content next. That’s the progression.

Things are fine as is imo. In fact I’d argue the game is too easy for casual players too. You can beat all overland content with 0CP and non-set armor while swinging light attacks at every enemy in sight, granted you have one heal.

It’d be good to add a “Veteran” version of zones so players can improve overtime without oneshotting every enemy in sight as they get stronger.

Speaking as someone who actually does play exclusively with no CP and who only very recently got their first matching set gear on one character I think that's an exaggeration. Well, it's true if there are other people (specifically high CP players) around at the time - but trying to solo even an overland boss on a low level character with no CP and no set gear is going to be extremely difficult even with heal skills and food/potions.

Unfortunately it usually goes from one extreme to the other - if you're alone it's going to be a long, difficult fight requiring good use of all your skills, kiting and dodging effectively, and a fair bit of luck or a few attempts. If anyone else shows up they're almost certainly going to be a high level player who will decimate the boss in seconds so you just have to spam attacks and hope you do enough damage to get credit.

If you're lucky (well, my idea of lucky) the other person who shows up will be another low level player (or a really bad one) and you might get a decent middle-ground where the fight is long enough to see the bosses mechanics and get some interesting moments but you don't die and it doesn't take forever. But in my experience that's pretty rare.

I guess one thing I'd like to see is enemies scaling to the number of players in the fight, and factoring in CP as well as simply number of people. But I have no idea if that's possible.

kadar

Yes, but only in CP Enlightenment.

Is the current combat system casual-friendly, including the use of animation cancelling, or does the system need to be reworked to become more accessible to casuals?

AC exists in a similar form in many games across many genres (e.g. League of Legends). As a "dirty casual" I stumbled across the concept in the normal course of playing the game. It's not something that is unique to ESO or somehow odd. Being quite common, I don't think AC makes the game less accessible.

Anotherone773

It a question that has a complex answer. This game does not scale well. I mean its not near as bad as WoW, but still. I think if you look at the start of the game and the end of the game, its mostly appropriate. Where it fails the most is the middle.

Starting isles are challenging enough not to faceroll when you are new, but not hard enough that you just get frustrated and quit. Mainland can be a bit more of a struggle. But once you hit CP, it starts to become significantly easier. By CP 160 all overland is pretty easy and those delve bosses that you couldnt solo at level 25 you can now steamroll without breaking sweat.

The problem is it doesnt scale. Parts of the game are either hard or easy. Not just a bit challenging. Dungeons in this game really show how bad the scaling is. Some normal dungeons are pretty hard when compared to other games, almost vet mode in fact. While vet dungeons seem to be more raid level dungeons. Other dungeons are so easy you can solo them,


Its not so much as to casual or to hard as it a big mess and has no consistency, either there is a gentle learning curve or a mountain slope. Also there is a lot of complexity in this game for no other reason other than being complex. Much of the complexity doesnt add value to the game in my opinion, only makes it more of a pain in the ass to play.

But you do have to ask yourself one thing. For a game that is 4 years old, you should see a lot more 690-720s and you dont, so why? This game has a low end game population. Which means everyone is either super casual or its terrible at retaining max level players and im getting about 5% vet player retention which is really low for an MMO especially one that is from a well known game series. This means a majority of the population is either getting bored or annoyed before they reach endgame or soon after.

Sabbathius

Yes, but only in these two areas mentioned. (describe in comments below)

I'd say CP has to go. It's just bad. It doesn't need a better catch-up mechanic, it doesn't need more tweaks. It just needs to be gone.

Same with animation canceling. Keep the ability to cancel any ability at any time, but with a caveat - ability cost is subtracted the moment the button is depressed, and if ability is canceled, the effect does not occur either. That is, if you cancel your Endless Hail mid-animation with a bar-swap, you get no Endless Hail.

The difficulty I would say is fine where it is. It's a little easy now because of CP, but it's fine if CP is removed. It's already been casualized enough compared to how it was at release. Remember release? Where people were legit dying to 4-mob pulls, and were asking for advice how to beat Doshia? That was a bit much for casuals. What we have now is decent enough, especially as you approach lvl 50 and you're not upscaled to hell and back any more.

NewBlacksmurf

Other

Phage wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

I don’t think casual means what you think.

Someone’s frequency of play doesn’t determine their skill level.

"Casual" is the term that has been used in the previous posts I remarked on in my OP, hence why I used it here. Feel free to suggest a better term.

@Phage

Let’s refer to a working definition of the term...
Casual gamer: The term "casual gamer" is often used for gamers who primarily play casual games, but can also refer to gamers who play less frequently than other gamers.

I think you want to use other terms that describe content difficulty. But if not I’d say the game design today isn’t one that demands long sessions.

So if you do mean to ask if the game should be adjusted so that “casuals” feel it’s more friendly I’d say there isn’t much that’s needed to change as there isn’t a glaring time constraint for most of the game.

Outliers:
-VMSA
-Trait research
-Trials (due to no grouping tools)

AlienatedGoat

No, the game is already casual enough.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Phage wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

I don’t think casual means what you think.

Someone’s frequency of play doesn’t determine their skill level.

"Casual" is the term that has been used in the previous posts I remarked on in my OP, hence why I used it here. Feel free to suggest a better term.

@Phage

Let’s refer to a working definition of the term...
Casual gamer: The term "casual gamer" is often used for gamers who primarily play casual games, but can also refer to gamers who play less frequently than other gamers.

I think you want to use other terms that describe content difficulty. But if not I’d say the game design today isn’t one that demands long sessions.

So if you do mean to ask if the game should be adjusted so that “casuals” feel it’s more friendly I’d say there isn’t much that’s needed to change as there isn’t a glaring time constraint for most of the game.

Outliers:
-VMSA
-Trait research
-Trials (due to no grouping tools)

I agree.

I'd also throw mount training into outliers. Not particularly difficult, but takes half a year per character.

Hippie4927

Goats are awesome.

I'm just here for the goats!

mb10

You can do any quest in the game completely naked and a broom as your weapon with absolute ease.

I think its casual enough.

The_Brosteen

Goats are awesome.

ArchMikem wrote: »

Im just here for the backlash of you asking one of the questions that shall not be named.

what question? should sorcs be nerfed?


congratulations this is now a nerf sorcs thread

AlienatedGoat

No, the game is already casual enough.

The_Brosteen wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Im just here for the backlash of you asking one of the questions that shall not be named.

what question? should sorcs be nerfed?


congratulations this is now a nerf sorcs thread

ccfeeling

No, the game is already casual enough.

Game is causal enough, just skip the hardcore content, Vmol, Vhof, etc...
This items can be replaced but a bit weaker.

Doctordarkspawn

Yes, but only in the combat system.

This may suprise you but the only real problem I have with this game, right now, is the combat system, and how it's handled.

It's a minefield of choices and builds and abilities that are somewhat useless. New players making builds that work is a statistical anomoly.

Right now, the entire game is rotation based. There's no thought, there's no variation, you run what everyone else runs, you memorize the rotation, you git gud at moving when you need to and nothing else matters.

What people call 'casualization' I'd actually call making the game *** engaging. Making the combat system less rotation based, actually encouraging people to make builds they like and are personalized and giving them the tools to, and then giving them the opportunity to actually build around the roll they chose with something like roll-based tallent tree's.

Right now, the game tries to be dark age of camelot. It isn't. It has to stop pretending to be.

Marabornwingrion

No, the game is already casual enough.

It should be billion times harder.

Tannus15

Other

There could be something between vet and normal for some content.

Like vMA.

normal is a joke.
vMA wrecks your face.

A lot of people complain about that. I'd be happy with a version of vMA which has all the mechanics of vMA but is a bit easier, doesn't drop vMA weapons but does drop purple items.

something like that anyway.

Likewise i'd move the hard-mode scroll to the start of dungeons and have it apply to the entire thing instead of just the end boss.

IsharaMeradin

Goats are awesome.

I had a pet goat as a kid. So yeah, they are definitely awesome! ^^

I wouldn't mind a casual version of the group dungeons and trials, but I don't want to take away what is currently there. Really, just want an easier story mode where I could go in in a 2+ group, hear out the story and get a feel for the dungeon. Then I might be ready to get into a full group that wants to run and be done on the regular mode where the quest dialog gets spammed and exited quickly for that skill point.

AlienatedGoat

No, the game is already casual enough.

IsharaMeradin wrote: »

I had a pet goat as a kid.

IsharaMeradin wrote: »

I wouldn't mind a casual version of the group dungeons and trials, but I don't want to take away what is currently there. Really, just want an easier story mode where I could go in in a 2+ group, hear out the story and get a feel for the dungeon. Then I might be ready to get into a full group that wants to run and be done on the regular mode where the quest dialog gets spammed and exited quickly for that skill point.

I'd be behind reworking normal trials to be slightly easier, and then adding them to Dungeon Finder for PUG groups. I'm not sure how to make it work for 2 people, maybe make enemies scale to the number of people in the dungeon? Something like that.

Honestly, we need a normal/easy and vet option for everything in the game, and to have the difficulty progress smoothly from normal overworld all the way to vet hardmode trials.

We've got a lot of easy content in the game that vet players would like to do and be challenged by, and likewise we have a lot of hard content that "casual" players would like to experience in a non-competitive way.

I'd love for there to be more options for everyone.

Tholian1

Yes, but in other areas NOT mentioned. (describe in comments below)

I think the game isn’t casual enough for time restricted players. It can be a long, fruitless attempt to make enough gold or collect enough materials to put together great armor when you have a life. There are players that can spend hours upon hours farming and getting the great stuff to sell for gold, but everyone else really never has much time to do so. There needs to be more gold making opportunities for players that can’t spend every waking moment playing. To make it worse, once you do happen to get a good set put together, the game changes and then you have to start all over never having gotten the opportunity to enjoy it.

AlienatedGoat

No, the game is already casual enough.

Tholian1 wrote: »

I think the game isn’t casual enough for time restricted players. It can be a long, fruitless attempt to make enough gold or collect enough materials to put together great armor when you have a life. There are players that can spend hours upon hours farming and getting the great stuff to sell for gold, but everyone else really never has much time to do so. There needs to be more gold making opportunities for players that can’t spend every waking moment playing. To make it worse, once you do happen to get a good set put together, the game changes and then you have to start all over never having gotten the opportunity to enjoy it.

I'd like to see some sort of AFK job system, like in BDO. Probably the only thing I liked from that game.

Oh, and boats. The boats were pretty rad.