ESO Class Representative Program

MaxwellC

@ZOS_GinaBruno
Pass on to whoever is chosen to represent the DK class to bring back our Flames of Oblivion AoE so we can get our AoE DoT back.
I'm just kinda excited/scared that no one will think about that ability.

Integral1900

And so, upon that day, was the meta enforced upon all the world... it’s going to be like that movie Independence Day isn’t it... how depressing...

BohnT

MaxwellC wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno
Pass on to whoever is chosen to represent the DK class to bring back our Flames of Oblivion AoE so we can get our AoE DoT back.
I'm just kinda excited/scared that no one will think about that ability.

It won't come back get over it. Dk has bigger issues than a mediocre aoe dot

Checkmath

I hope you all dont forget, that those representatives heavenly rely on us to get a lot of feedback. thats why i am fine with pretty much any representative as long as he includes our work done in here and for the community. thats why I also actually wouldnt say no to any nominations with my name for templars, because I know i can rely on you guys in here to help me make the game better. and otherwise i will gladly do my best to support elected representatives.

Turelus

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks for the emails so far, everyone. We're in the middle of going through to begin narrowing down our choices. Just as a reminder, our team will be making the final decision on who is chosen; it is not based on number of votes. We'll also be reviewing the quality of posts and feedback (among other things) including any discussion within this thread. Just saying...

Good job I didn't apply.

Sounds like there'll be some work in making sure these are the kinds of reps who will work out. Looking forward to seeing who gets selected and hoping to see them work with the community in gathering information.
Just make sure whoever is chosen for Nightblade also hates the clunky Swallow Soul animations, pushing for that change should be great!

MaxwellC

@BohnT
Mate, as you showed yourself to be a person who rarely plays the DK class, I'd advise you to stop; We've been through this before and had a clear understanding that you do not understand the class let alone play it as often as you portrayed yourself as doing so.

When you understand that Stam DKs lack a decent AoE DoT for PvE as well as applying pressure in PvP then you can come talk to me other than that just stop.

Kanar

Just occurred to me: will there also be a representative for each of the stamina damage classes: bow, dual wield, and 2h?

While dw/bow will likely not be under-represented, I wonder if bow/bow and 2h/bow will have adequate representation?

@ZOS_GinaBruno

GeorgeBlack

MaxwellC wrote: »

@BohnT
Mate, as you showed yourself to be a person who rarely plays the DK class, I'd advise you to stop; We've been through this before and had a clear understanding that you do not understand the class let alone play it as often as you portrayed yourself as doing so.

When you understand that Stam DKs lack a decent AoE DoT for PvE as well as applying pressure in PvP then you can come talk to me other than that just stop.

I dont want your idea of the skill.

I want stam ash cloud.
Stam talons
Stam stonefist
Stam wings

MaxwellC

@GeorgeBlack
You don't need to want my idea if you don't like my idea then tell me why you do not like my idea instead of saying "I dont want your idea of the skill"; Back your refute to my idea with something substantive rather than outright saying that.

Why do we need stam ash cloud? Ash cloud is a stamina ability makes no sense whatsoever primarily because of the elemental damage it does currently. Let's also talk about the radius and the uses of it. The current ash cloud converted to a stamina ability would serve no purpose over than getting steam rolled in PvP and in PvE sure that'll give us a AoE but albeit a weak one.

Stam Stonefist: I'm torn on that I've advocated for a stamina stone fist before but again the damage it does it pretty lackluster and the only way I can see this working is if they make it worth slotting but again that's up for debate.

Stam wings are again another useless thing and affects Stam DK negatively like really bad. You want Stam DKs to continually dip into their stamina resources so they can no longer escape a fight if they're on a bow or try to outlast the burst if they're using a shield/blocking. Wings as a Magicka is perfect because we do not consistently dip into our magicka resources to do damage or dodge/sprint (we use stamina for that).

Stam Talons is something I have supported as well but only for choking talons and would like to see that ability turn into stamina primarily for tanking but again that too is a problem that I later came to a conclusion on because again when tanking we dip into our stamina while talons would just add more cost into our stamina. Magicka while tanking isn't used a lot unless you're doing something wrong.

Next post I will tell you why I want Flames of Oblivion back as an AoE with its DoT.

MaxwellC

@GeorgeBlack
I have advocated for returning Flames of Oblivion back to an AoE DoT because it is arguably better than the current which only applies a direct flame damage and no dot. I also have stated that if we bring this ability back it should have a unique function to it where it increases ardent flame DoT abilities by 10-20% (base value calculated). That comment came after @ZOS_Wrobel had stated something about wanting DK DoTs to mean something in PvP albeit nothing was brought to the table to address his claim rather than nerfing Stam DK again thanks to idiots who cried about us being some "Top of the PvP dueling food chain".

Flames of oblivion AoE DoT applies burning damage which I want the ability to feature an adaptive theme were the ability would change element based on highest resource/damage form e.g Spell/max mag = Flame while stamina/wep power = poison (I want blue damnit).

PvE aspect: Flames of Oblivion in this form with the increased DoT to ardent flame abilities would provide higher DPS in dungeons/trials especially on those mob pulls.

PvP aspect: Flames of Oblivion will allow you to find hidden enemies and apply pressure on them as the class was touted to be a stand your ground class. I can engage a target have pressure hitting him then use a ardent flame DoT to increase the pressure. If purged doesn't matter the effect of flames of oblivion's new debuff would make me wanna apply another DoT knowing it'll hurt.

So please tell me why my idea of bringing back a class defining ability that was selfishly stolen from us and given to sorcerers who isn't a stand your ground class... tell me why that's a bad idea.

BohnT

MaxwellC wrote: »

@GeorgeBlack
I have advocated for returning Flames of Oblivion back to an AoE DoT because it is arguably better than the current which only applies a direct flame damage and no dot. I also have stated that if we bring this ability back it should have a unique function to it where it increases ardent flame DoT abilities by 10-20% (base value calculated). That comment came after @ZOS_Wrobel had stated something about wanting DK DoTs to mean something in PvP albeit nothing was brought to the table to address his claim rather than nerfing Stam DK again thanks to idiots who cried about us being some "Top of the PvP dueling food chain".

Flames of oblivion AoE DoT applies burning damage which I want the ability to feature an adaptive theme were the ability would change element based on highest resource/damage form e.g Spell/max mag = Flame while stamina/wep power = poison (I want blue damnit).

PvE aspect: Flames of Oblivion in this form with the increased DoT to ardent flame abilities would provide higher DPS in dungeons/trials especially on those mob pulls.

PvP aspect: Flames of Oblivion will allow you to find hidden enemies and apply pressure on them as the class was touted to be a stand your ground class. I can engage a target have pressure hitting him then use a ardent flame DoT to increase the pressure. If purged doesn't matter the effect of flames of oblivion's new debuff would make me wanna apply another DoT knowing it'll hurt.

So please tell me why my idea of bringing back a class defining ability that was selfishly stolen from us and given to sorcerers who isn't a stand your ground class... tell me why that's a bad idea.

Because it's bad. Pressure is crap in anything outside of 1v1 in Cyro. If there is one healer around you can take all your pressure, roll it into a piece of paper and stick it up your ass because it doesn't do ***.

In OW pvp you want burst, or burst which gets supported by dots. But taking away one of the only delayed burst skills dk has is idiotic.
Also what do you want with that stupid burning effect? You get that on a magdk all the time and on a stamdk an AoE DoT has a 1%!!!!!! chance of applying burning guess how useful that is.

And in pve stamplar and stamsorc will still pull better AoE DPS which is irrelevant in vAS and will probably be useless in the new trial as it's said to be like vAS. Also in other trials ST is what you want. You often have enough AoE damage from your magdds.

The ability is decent how it is today and they only want to adress the Pain points anyway and this ability isn't one of the many dk has atm.

Also stamdk was top of the dueling food chain the people saying that were right, Wrobel just did his Wrobel moves and killed DKs

BohnT

MaxwellC wrote: »

@BohnT
Mate, as you showed yourself to be a person who rarely plays the DK class, I'd advise you to stop; We've been through this before and had a clear understanding that you do not understand the class let alone play it as often as you portrayed yourself as doing so.

When you understand that Stam DKs lack a decent AoE DoT for PvE as well as applying pressure in PvP then you can come talk to me other than that just stop.

Damn i really wish i could play on your sunshine server, the people there seem to be absolutely stupid and unable to play the game. You know why a DK doesn't have any pressure because it doesn't have any good burst opportunities. You can load people with dots as soon as they have a burst heal they laugh at you.

MaxwellC

@BohnT

BohnT wrote: »

Because it's bad. Pressure is crap in anything outside of 1v1 in Cyro.

You claim pressure isn't a thing needed in PvP are you honestly claiming that?
Pressure is the sole thing other than a short lived burst when it comes to open world PvP and dueling so I'm baffled that you claim to PvP but dismiss an important part of PvP.

You claim a healer can beat my pressure yet that is the same thing with burst so you invalidated that claim immediately with that response which also astounds me and again tells me you DO NOT PLAY THE DK class. You must have like 6 different characters where I have only two and both of them are DKs.

In Open world PvP I currently apply pressure with burst damage and it works wonders even on healers. I pressure with only one thing at the moment i.e inject but way back then I USED FLAMES OF OBLIVION AoE.

Your claim about burning damage or w/e being useless again baffles me lol like wtf? You do know that there isn't a chance to apply burning damage as that is what the DoT did before it was removed and replaced as a mage light re-skin. I even stated making this ability change based on the max damage/max resource but again you ignored that.

You ignored my wanting a new debuff specifically for the DK class that increases the DoT damage of ardent flame abilities but that's ok to.

You strawman comparing it to vAS but immediately dismiss other aspects of the game where it is mob heavy e.g vSO,vHRC,vMaw,vHoF,vDSA,etc so jeez man wow.

Summary of your entire argument = Strawman
What I gave george was a steelman so how about you try that next time before coming at me with that nonsense.

MaxwellC

@BohnT
My bad technically I use like 4 abilities to apply pressure but here's a good point about pressure vs a healer too http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Maxwell/video/46843235
PvP is all about Pressure and Burst not one thing.

IxSTALKERxI

@Lexxypwns

I appreciate the nomination, but I don't think I have the dedication to take on such a roll like this at this time.

That doesn't mean I can't still help by providing feedback though... I'll just annoy the class representatives with all my problems

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks for the emails so far, everyone. We're in the middle of going through to begin narrowing down our choices. Just as a reminder, our team will be making the final decision on who is chosen; it is not based on number of votes. We'll also be reviewing the quality of posts and feedback (among other things) including any discussion within this thread. Just saying...

This is good. At the end of the day ZOS needs to choose people they are able to work with. Only they really know who will be suitable or not based on what they are looking for.

Brrrofski

Can you choose like Stam and Magica dudes for each class - those who play a LOT of stamplar or mag sorc or whatever and understand everything about them, but also get some guys in that play EVERYTHING. Guys who PvP on all or most classes. Run several builds on them and know how to PvP effectively on them all.

There's a lot of us that play all classes and honestly say what is too strong or too weak on classes. We need some guys like that giving feedback.

I'm not saying it's ALWAYS the case (I read joy division's Templar post the other day and it for instance did highlight where mag temp was over performing), but sometimes people will neglect what is strong about a class and just focus on it's weaknesses. It's something they love so they ignore certain things about it either on purpose or they're too blind to it (it's human nature - we all have an ex like that right???) There should be discussions between the chosen few about this stuff.

GeorgeBlack

Mehh...
I am rly rly rly not looking forward to meta riders representing my class.

Turelus

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Mehh...
I am rly rly rly not looking forward to meta riders representing my class.

We don't know if they will be, they're only representatives. They can still take your concerns and pass them on in a report.
They're not going to be designing the classes, ZOS isn't that crazy.

Rep: This class skill has issues.
Wrobel: Okay, I nerfed it.
Rep: No no no! That's not what it needed it needed X and Y.
Wrobel: I did Z
Rep: Sure that works too.

GeorgeBlack

Am I... am I
Am I allowed to have a say without being quoted?!

Turelus

You can, I can reply to posts without quotes if you want but should anyone post before I reply it can cause confusions in context.

GeorgeBlack

: |

eserras7b16_ESO

@Joy_Division for Templars please. Amazing dude.

Nifty2g

@ZOS_GinaBruno I'm curious you mention quality of posts, but I know a few people who don't have forum accounts, I posted here to nominate Kasa, but she doesn't have a forum account. Will those people still be considered?

Turelus

Nifty2g wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno I'm curious you mention quality of posts, but I know a few people who don't have forum accounts, I posted here to nominate Kasa, but she doesn't have a forum account. Will those people still be considered?

Wasn't Covenant_Merchant hers?

BohnT

MaxwellC wrote: »

@BohnT

show previous quotes

BohnT wrote: »

Because it's bad. Pressure is crap in anything outside of 1v1 in Cyro.

You claim pressure isn't a thing needed in PvP are you honestly claiming that?
Pressure is the sole thing other than a short lived burst when it comes to open world PvP and dueling so I'm baffled that you claim to PvP but dismiss an important part of PvP.

You claim a healer can beat my pressure yet that is the same thing with burst so you invalidated that claim immediately with that response which also astounds me and again tells me you DO NOT PLAY THE DK class. You must have like 6 different characters where I have only two and both of them are DKs.

In Open world PvP I currently apply pressure with burst damage and it works wonders even on healers. I pressure with only one thing at the moment i.e inject but way back then I USED FLAMES OF OBLIVION AoE.

Your claim about burning damage or w/e being useless again baffles me lol like wtf? You do know that there isn't a chance to apply burning damage as that is what the DoT did before it was removed and replaced as a mage light re-skin. I even stated making this ability change based on the max damage/max resource but again you ignored that.

You ignored my wanting a new debuff specifically for the DK class that increases the DoT damage of ardent flame abilities but that's ok to.

You strawman comparing it to vAS but immediately dismiss other aspects of the game where it is mob heavy e.g vSO,vHRC,vMaw,vHoF,vDSA,etc so jeez man wow.

Summary of your entire argument = Strawman
What I gave george was a steelman so how about you try that next time before coming at me with that nonsense.

I have 9 different characters and 2 are DKs
You should change your class from time to time just as an advise. Create a stamwarden, play stamnb for a while, have some fun with a magnb, nuke people with a stamplar or just go to cyro with a Magsorc.
Just to get a feeling how other classes are doing in cyro atm.

The reason burst is better than pressure is that if you kill the enemy in one gcd the healer can't react, Earthgore can't proc and the resto ult won't reach your target. Ofc pressure can work but it's much less reliable and you need a much bigger offensive window to kill someone. With a good burst you just nuke someone before the others can react and then you can go back into defence.

The buff to ardent flame dots would make magdk again king of duels + would make stamdk a bit too strong in pve i guess because it would replace stamsorc entirely.
Look at hurricane the skill that comes close to what you want doesn't pressure your enemy enough it's just a medium strong dot but not a pressure machine and Zos won't make FoO any different.


For PvE i clearly stated that for all trials the magdds bring enough cleave damage to get the job done most bosses are ST so you nuke them before they use their mechanics.

vAA:
1. Boss - pure ST
2. Boss - mainly ST with some useless mobs around which can be ignored
3. Boss - pure ST again
4. Boss hm - 2 types of enemies 1 has to be focused by ranged DDs and atros die around the meele DDs in e cleave of the whole group

vHRC
1. Boss - pure ST
2. Bosses - both have some adds but they all die quickly in the already existing AoE damage
3. Boss hm - you have 2 types of enemies and both are either focused with ST or die in the cleave around the boss

vSO
1. Boss - pure ST
2. Boss - this is where we have some adds and maybe some additional AoE damage helps the group
3. Boss - only weak Adds which die fast in the cleave
4. Boss hm - mainly ST, all adds die in the existing cleave just fine

vMol
1. Boss - pure ST and the cat adds ~ no need for more AoE than we already have
2. Boss - this is the only boss in the entire game where you actually have to kill more than 2 adds fast so here it might be a game changer
3. Boss hm - ST and all adds die in the existing cleave

vHof
1. Boss - some adds around but they die in the cleave
2. Boss - adds are focused with ST or die in the existing cleave
3. Boss - you want every bit of ST damage in this fight you can get because it ends much faster then
4. Boss - 3 Bosses so cleave might be helpful but they often aren't stacked so yeah doesn't help
5. Boss - ST and all adds are either focused with ST or are weak enough to die in the cleave

You have countless add pulls in between those bosses but even with more cleave it won't change much, how much AoE DPS should it provide? It won't be noticed even if 5 DDs change to Stamdk with that skill it may be 20k more group AoE DPS but that's not much.

Qbiken

Nifty2g wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno I'm curious you mention quality of posts, but I know a few people who don't have forum accounts, I posted here to nominate Kasa, but she doesn't have a forum account. Will those people still be considered?

I don´t know about you, but having someone who got banned multiple times on the forums, is not someone I would like to see as a class representative, no matter how much knowledge they might have on the game.

But maybe that´s just me.......

MaxwellC

@BohnT
I don't intend to change my class because I love this class even after it was nerf'd over and over I still refused to play another. I've played it during it's highest form and it's lowest form; Currently the DK class is stuck just under subpar (overall more so PvP perspective) and yet I still play it.
I've played enough PvP to get a feel for how another class plays just because I do not play another class doesn't mean I can't understand how they function but this is a PvP perspective as that wouldn't translate to PvE. A prime example of people learning other class through PvP is what to expect when a NB opens with a CC; when that happens typically they're about to incap you which is why most people including myself immediately dodge.

Flames of oblivion in its current form affects one target but with the change it would affect all and deal the same damage as the current but even more thanks to the applied DoT returning as well. If we add the other change that I requested i.e the debuff increasing DoT damage then it would be even more worth it so even without the change Flames of Oblivion becoming an AoE again is simply better because it can affect multiple targets even the one you are focusing. So If I'm focusing on a boss in a veteran dungeon the tank can just grab the adds to the center while AoE damage brings them all down.
That is the point^, so you being against it again makes no sense.

vAA isn't really mob intensive but going to each boss there's just a few mob pulls although large. The 2nd boss in vAA is where you'd see a decent size mob pull.
vHRC is mob intensive with the first boss (downstairs) having more Welwas spawn depending on the time taken. The mob fights before the boss are also big too but more damage is better and every Stam/Mag DK utilizes flames of oblivion anyway as a part of their rotation but again it affects one target.
vSO has one of the most annoying fights because going to each boss is littered with mobs which again makes the AoE choice something better since it'll affect all targets instead of one.
vMaw has it's mob fights albeit way less in comparison to vSO but again the current Flames of Oblivion which is used in rotation affects one target not multiple.
vHoF Umm... what? Those adds are pretty strong an AoE damage is more preferred with single target heading them up. Nonetheless Flames of oblivion affects one target but a player based AoE that applies a DoT to all targets affected is somehow worse than the current one??

I don't get your point on refuting Flames of Oblivion when its current form affects one target but the player based AoE DoT form affects all targets near the player while providing a DoT. It'll do the same damage per 5 seconds as the current flames of oblivion which hits every 5 seconds but it will have a DoT + hit all targets near the player.

Wrobel said he wanted DoTs from the DK class to hit more and my flames of oblivion suggestion following increased DoT damage to targets near the AoE is one of those ideas born from that. In PvP DKs rarely use their DoTs unless they're going for a turtle build but that usually ends in a stalemate when I fight them.
In PvE it would add more flexible damage because the ability again will hit the target your are focusing one (current flames of oblivion may hit other targets near your current target) but also hit all targets near you and apply a DoT.

Nifty2g

BohnT wrote: »

show previous quotes

MaxwellC wrote: »

@BohnT

BohnT wrote: »

Because it's bad. Pressure is crap in anything outside of 1v1 in Cyro.

You claim pressure isn't a thing needed in PvP are you honestly claiming that?
Pressure is the sole thing other than a short lived burst when it comes to open world PvP and dueling so I'm baffled that you claim to PvP but dismiss an important part of PvP.

You claim a healer can beat my pressure yet that is the same thing with burst so you invalidated that claim immediately with that response which also astounds me and again tells me you DO NOT PLAY THE DK class. You must have like 6 different characters where I have only two and both of them are DKs.

In Open world PvP I currently apply pressure with burst damage and it works wonders even on healers. I pressure with only one thing at the moment i.e inject but way back then I USED FLAMES OF OBLIVION AoE.

Your claim about burning damage or w/e being useless again baffles me lol like wtf? You do know that there isn't a chance to apply burning damage as that is what the DoT did before it was removed and replaced as a mage light re-skin. I even stated making this ability change based on the max damage/max resource but again you ignored that.

You ignored my wanting a new debuff specifically for the DK class that increases the DoT damage of ardent flame abilities but that's ok to.

You strawman comparing it to vAS but immediately dismiss other aspects of the game where it is mob heavy e.g vSO,vHRC,vMaw,vHoF,vDSA,etc so jeez man wow.

Summary of your entire argument = Strawman
What I gave george was a steelman so how about you try that next time before coming at me with that nonsense.

I have 9 different characters and 2 are DKs
You should change your class from time to time just as an advise. Create a stamwarden, play stamnb for a while, have some fun with a magnb, nuke people with a stamplar or just go to cyro with a Magsorc.
Just to get a feeling how other classes are doing in cyro atm.

The reason burst is better than pressure is that if you kill the enemy in one gcd the healer can't react, Earthgore can't proc and the resto ult won't reach your target. Ofc pressure can work but it's much less reliable and you need a much bigger offensive window to kill someone. With a good burst you just nuke someone before the others can react and then you can go back into defence.

The buff to ardent flame dots would make magdk again king of duels + would make stamdk a bit too strong in pve i guess because it would replace stamsorc entirely.
Look at hurricane the skill that comes close to what you want doesn't pressure your enemy enough it's just a medium strong dot but not a pressure machine and Zos won't make FoO any different.


For PvE i clearly stated that for all trials the magdds bring enough cleave damage to get the job done most bosses are ST so you nuke them before they use their mechanics.

vAA:
1. Boss - pure ST
2. Boss - mainly ST with some useless mobs around which can be ignored
3. Boss - pure ST again
4. Boss hm - 2 types of enemies 1 has to be focused by ranged DDs and atros die around the meele DDs in e cleave of the whole group

vHRC
1. Boss - pure ST
2. Bosses - both have some adds but they all die quickly in the already existing AoE damage
3. Boss hm - you have 2 types of enemies and both are either focused with ST or die in the cleave around the boss

vSO
1. Boss - pure ST
2. Boss - this is where we have some adds and maybe some additional AoE damage helps the group
3. Boss - only weak Adds which die fast in the cleave
4. Boss hm - mainly ST, all adds die in the existing cleave just fine

vMol
1. Boss - pure ST and the cat adds ~ no need for more AoE than we already have
2. Boss - this is the only boss in the entire game where you actually have to kill more than 2 adds fast so here it might be a game changer
3. Boss hm - ST and all adds die in the existing cleave

vHof
1. Boss - some adds around but they die in the cleave
2. Boss - adds are focused with ST or die in the existing cleave
3. Boss - you want every bit of ST damage in this fight you can get because it ends much faster then
4. Boss - 3 Bosses so cleave might be helpful but they often aren't stacked so yeah doesn't help
5. Boss - ST and all adds are either focused with ST or are weak enough to die in the cleave

You have countless add pulls in between those bosses but even with more cleave it won't change much, how much AoE DPS should it provide? It won't be noticed even if 5 DDs change to Stamdk with that skill it may be 20k more group AoE DPS but that's not much.

Cleaving adds down is mostly a new concept that happened in homestead, which is just over a year ago

BohnT

MaxwellC wrote: »

@BohnT
I don't intend to change my class because I love this class even after it was nerf'd over and over I still refused to play another. I've played it during it's highest form and it's lowest form; Currently the DK class is stuck just under subpar (overall more so PvP perspective) and yet I still play it.
I've played enough PvP to get a feel for how another class plays just because I do not play another class doesn't mean I can't understand how they function but this is a PvP perspective as that wouldn't translate to PvE. A prime example of people learning other class through PvP is what to expect when a NB opens with a CC; when that happens typically they're about to incap you which is why most people including myself immediately dodge.

Flames of oblivion in its current form affects one target but with the change it would affect all and deal the same damage as the current but even more thanks to the applied DoT returning as well. If we add the other change that I requested i.e the debuff increasing DoT damage then it would be even more worth it so even without the change Flames of Oblivion becoming an AoE again is simply better because it can affect multiple targets even the one you are focusing. So If I'm focusing on a boss in a veteran dungeon the tank can just grab the adds to the center while AoE damage brings them all down.
That is the point^, so you being against it again makes no sense.

vAA isn't really mob intensive but going to each boss there's just a few mob pulls although large. The 2nd boss in vAA is where you'd see a decent size mob pull.
vHRC is mob intensive with the first boss (downstairs) having more Welwas spawn depending on the time taken. The mob fights before the boss are also big too but more damage is better and every Stam/Mag DK utilizes flames of oblivion anyway as a part of their rotation but again it affects one target.
vSO has one of the most annoying fights because going to each boss is littered with mobs which again makes the AoE choice something better since it'll affect all targets instead of one.
vMaw has it's mob fights albeit way less in comparison to vSO but again the current Flames of Oblivion which is used in rotation affects one target not multiple.
vHoF Umm... what? Those adds are pretty strong an AoE damage is more preferred with single target heading them up. Nonetheless Flames of oblivion affects one target but a player based AoE that applies a DoT to all targets affected is somehow worse than the current one??

I don't get your point on refuting Flames of Oblivion when its current form affects one target but the player based AoE DoT form affects all targets near the player while providing a DoT. It'll do the same damage per 5 seconds as the current flames of oblivion which hits every 5 seconds but it will have a DoT + hit all targets near the player.

Wrobel said he wanted DoTs from the DK class to hit more and my flames of oblivion suggestion following increased DoT damage to targets near the AoE is one of those ideas born from that. In PvP DKs rarely use their DoTs unless they're going for a turtle build but that usually ends in a stalemate when I fight them.
In PvE it would add more flexible damage because the ability again will hit the target your are focusing one (current flames of oblivion may hit other targets near your current target) but also hit all targets near you and apply a DoT.

I think we just have different approaches how we'd like to see DKs being buffed and made viable again and in the end None of us will be the one in charge to influence the decision of Wrobel. I really don't like the reliance on dots as they take more offensive gcds to be good and they need their time to eat through an enemies health bar.
We'll have to wait and see what the future will give us

MaxwellC

@BohnT
That's the thing Flames of Oblivion is just one ability that I want to change. Flames of oblivion still does its damage but it will do even more damage by applying a DoT if returned to an AoE.