Maintenance for the week of September 1:
• [IN PROGRESS] Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 3, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• [IN PROGRESS] PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 3, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• [IN PROGRESS] Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 3, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• [IN PROGRESS] PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 3, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
RACE PASSIVES - A comprehensive and well researched suggestion
dovakiin5574
✭✭✭✭✭
I have seen a lot of people complain that they are stuck to certain roles depending on their race. I agree, so I have done some research on racial passives and I believe I have found a simple solution that would be easy to implement and should make players happy. In short... RACIAL TYPES! I suggest having TWO types of each race: One with a stamina emphasis, one with a magic emphasis. This could be implemented either as a bound on creation passive system or it could be made to work just like Werewolf and Vampire skill lines that only allow you to unlock the ones while you are that "Type". For example you would have to go to a shrine similar to the skill and attribute ones and pay a hefty fee to change your "Type". As for what new passives should be given for each race's new type, I have some suggestions which I will list below along with the original passives. ~~~ Let me know your thoughts
BRETON
Arcane Adept (ORIGINAL)
Max Magicka + 10%
Spell Resistance 3960
Reduced Magicka cost -3%
Knight of the Moors (NEW)
Max Stamina +10%
Physical Penetration +1500 (OR LOWER NUMBER)
Reduced Stamina cost -3%
ORC
Berserker (ORIGINAL)
Max Health and Max Stamina +10%
Increased Healing Received +5% and Health Recovery +20%
Increases your damage with melee weapon attacks by 4% and Reduces Sprint cost by 12% and increases Sprint speed by 10%
Mage of the Wild (NEW)
Max Health and Max Magicka +10%
Increased Healing Done +5% and Health Recovery +20%
Increases your damage with staff weapon attacks by 4% and Reduces Spell cost by 3% and increases Movement speed by 4%
REDGUARD
Alikir Warrior (ORIGINAL)
Stamina Recovery +9%
Max Stamina +10%
Your melee attacks restore 792 Stamina - This effect can occur once every 5 seconds
Outcast Sand Walker (NEW)
Magicka Recovery +9%
Max Magicka +10%
Your magic attacks restore 792 Magicka - This effect can occur once every 5 seconds
ARGONIAN
Hist-Blessed (ORIGINAL)
Increases your Max Magicka by 3% and Whenever you drink a potion you restore 4620 Health, Magicka, and Stamina
Increases Max Health by 9% and Poison and Disease Resistance by 1485
Increases your healing done and received by 5%
Shadow-Scale (NEW)
Increases your Max Stamina by 3% and Whenever you drink a potion you restore 4620 Health, Magicka, and Stamina
Increases Max Health by 9% and Poison and Disease Damage done by +10% (OR 4%)
Your melee attacks have a 10% chance to decrease the enemies Health, Magicka, and Stamina resource restore and recovery by 5% (OR 3%)
DARK ELF
Tribunal Acolyte (ORIGINAL)
Increases Max Magicka and Max Stamina by 6%
Increases Max Magicka by 3% and Flame Resistance by 2079
Increases your Flame Damage by 7% and Increases your Frost and Shock Damage by 2%
Ashlander (NEW)
Increases Max Magicka and Max Stamina by 6%
Increases Max Stamina by 3% and Flame Resistance by 2079
Increases your Physical and Environmental Damage Resistance by 7% and Increases your Bleed Damage by 2%
NORD
Bard (ORIGINAL)
Increases Max Stamina by 6% and Health Recovery by 20%
Increases Max Health by 9% and Cold Resistance by 2079
Increases damage reduction by 6%
Dragon-Blooded (NEW)
Increases Max Magicka by 6% and Health Recovery by 20%
Increases Max Health by 9% and Cold and Flame Resistance by 1200
Increases Spell Resistance by 3960
HIGH ELF
Archmage (ORIGINAL)
Increased Magicka Recovery by 9%
Increases Max Magicka by 10%
Increases your Flame, Frost and Shock Damage by 4%
Tribune (NEW)
Increased Stamina Recovery by 9%
Increases Max Stamina by 10%
Increased Class Skill Damage by 4%
WOOD ELF
Shadow Hunter (ORIGINAL)
Increases Stamina Recovery by 21%
Increases your Max Stamina by 6% and Poison and Disease Resistance by 1485
Reduces your detection radius in Stealth by 3m and Increases damage done while in Stealth by 10%
Spinner (NEW)
Increases Magicka Recovery by 21%
Increases your Max Magicka by 6% and Fire and Shock Resistance by 1485
Increases area of effect radius by 3m and Increases area of effect damage by 2%
Khajiit
Champion of the Moons (ORIGINAL)
Increases your Health Recovery by 20% and Stamina Recovery by 10%
Reduces your detection radius in Stealth by 3m and Increases damage done while in Stealth by 10%
Increases Weapon Critical by 8%
Lunar Mage (NEW)
Increases your Health Recovery by 20% and Magicka Recovery by 10%
Increases area of effect radius by 3m and Increases area of effect damage by 2%
Increases Spell Critical by 8%
IMPERIAL
Emperor's Guard (ORIGINAL)
Increases Max Health by 12%
Increases Max Stamina by 10%
Your melee attacks have a 10% chance to restore 6% of your Max Health
Moth Priest (NEW)
Increases your healing done and received by 5%
Increases Max Magicka by 10%
Your ranged attacks have a 10% chance to restore 2% of your Max Health and 2% of your Max Magicka
BRETON
Arcane Adept (ORIGINAL)
Max Magicka + 10%
Spell Resistance 3960
Reduced Magicka cost -3%
Knight of the Moors (NEW)
Max Stamina +10%
Physical Penetration +1500 (OR LOWER NUMBER)
Reduced Stamina cost -3%
ORC
Berserker (ORIGINAL)
Max Health and Max Stamina +10%
Increased Healing Received +5% and Health Recovery +20%
Increases your damage with melee weapon attacks by 4% and Reduces Sprint cost by 12% and increases Sprint speed by 10%
Mage of the Wild (NEW)
Max Health and Max Magicka +10%
Increased Healing Done +5% and Health Recovery +20%
Increases your damage with staff weapon attacks by 4% and Reduces Spell cost by 3% and increases Movement speed by 4%
REDGUARD
Alikir Warrior (ORIGINAL)
Stamina Recovery +9%
Max Stamina +10%
Your melee attacks restore 792 Stamina - This effect can occur once every 5 seconds
Outcast Sand Walker (NEW)
Magicka Recovery +9%
Max Magicka +10%
Your magic attacks restore 792 Magicka - This effect can occur once every 5 seconds
ARGONIAN
Hist-Blessed (ORIGINAL)
Increases your Max Magicka by 3% and Whenever you drink a potion you restore 4620 Health, Magicka, and Stamina
Increases Max Health by 9% and Poison and Disease Resistance by 1485
Increases your healing done and received by 5%
Shadow-Scale (NEW)
Increases your Max Stamina by 3% and Whenever you drink a potion you restore 4620 Health, Magicka, and Stamina
Increases Max Health by 9% and Poison and Disease Damage done by +10% (OR 4%)
Your melee attacks have a 10% chance to decrease the enemies Health, Magicka, and Stamina resource restore and recovery by 5% (OR 3%)
DARK ELF
Tribunal Acolyte (ORIGINAL)
Increases Max Magicka and Max Stamina by 6%
Increases Max Magicka by 3% and Flame Resistance by 2079
Increases your Flame Damage by 7% and Increases your Frost and Shock Damage by 2%
Ashlander (NEW)
Increases Max Magicka and Max Stamina by 6%
Increases Max Stamina by 3% and Flame Resistance by 2079
Increases your Physical and Environmental Damage Resistance by 7% and Increases your Bleed Damage by 2%
NORD
Bard (ORIGINAL)
Increases Max Stamina by 6% and Health Recovery by 20%
Increases Max Health by 9% and Cold Resistance by 2079
Increases damage reduction by 6%
Dragon-Blooded (NEW)
Increases Max Magicka by 6% and Health Recovery by 20%
Increases Max Health by 9% and Cold and Flame Resistance by 1200
Increases Spell Resistance by 3960
HIGH ELF
Archmage (ORIGINAL)
Increased Magicka Recovery by 9%
Increases Max Magicka by 10%
Increases your Flame, Frost and Shock Damage by 4%
Tribune (NEW)
Increased Stamina Recovery by 9%
Increases Max Stamina by 10%
Increased Class Skill Damage by 4%
WOOD ELF
Shadow Hunter (ORIGINAL)
Increases Stamina Recovery by 21%
Increases your Max Stamina by 6% and Poison and Disease Resistance by 1485
Reduces your detection radius in Stealth by 3m and Increases damage done while in Stealth by 10%
Spinner (NEW)
Increases Magicka Recovery by 21%
Increases your Max Magicka by 6% and Fire and Shock Resistance by 1485
Increases area of effect radius by 3m and Increases area of effect damage by 2%
Khajiit
Champion of the Moons (ORIGINAL)
Increases your Health Recovery by 20% and Stamina Recovery by 10%
Reduces your detection radius in Stealth by 3m and Increases damage done while in Stealth by 10%
Increases Weapon Critical by 8%
Lunar Mage (NEW)
Increases your Health Recovery by 20% and Magicka Recovery by 10%
Increases area of effect radius by 3m and Increases area of effect damage by 2%
Increases Spell Critical by 8%
IMPERIAL
Emperor's Guard (ORIGINAL)
Increases Max Health by 12%
Increases Max Stamina by 10%
Your melee attacks have a 10% chance to restore 6% of your Max Health
Moth Priest (NEW)
Increases your healing done and received by 5%
Increases Max Magicka by 10%
Your ranged attacks have a 10% chance to restore 2% of your Max Health and 2% of your Max Magicka
PAPSMEAR - Positively Against Paws SMEAR campaign - Say YES to crown crates
19
-
dovakiin5574✭✭✭✭✭Literally throughout the game you see the opposite build on NPCs for every racePAPSMEAR - Positively Against Paws SMEAR campaign - Say YES to crown crates9
-
phaneub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭See, I had a Nightblade go from starting out as a Stamina Tank, go to Magicka Caster/Healer, to Magicka Tank, to Stamina Two-Handed/Bow, then Dual-Wield/Bow and finally back to Two-Handed/Bow. A lot of my characters don't stay what they started out as and may finish differently than I started. This Nightblade does have a wide array of weapons maxed out and all 3 armor types at 50, he just wasn't what I expected when I first made him.
As far as racials go though, I think they're fine the way they are. I would like to see a regular initial ability at level 1 and an ultimate ability at level 45 somewhere down the line, but not a priority.1 -
Sixty5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I don't mind the suggestion, but the numbers and bonuses you are suggesting are either far too strong, or are utter trash.Lord and Savior of the Association of Serious S***posters.
I play a character called "Gives Me Wood Elf" because I am a mature and sensible person.
Stam Sorc main in Battlegrounds7 -
generalmyrick✭✭✭✭✭
✭id be a lunar mage! wow!"The red pill and its opposite, the blue pill, are a popular cultural meme, a metaphor representing the choice between:
Knowledge, freedom, uncertainty and the brutal truths of reality (red pill)
Security, happiness, beauty, and the blissful ignorance of illusion (blue pill)"
Insight to Agree to Awesome Ratio = 1:6.04:2.76 as of 1/25/2019
Compared to people that I've ignored = I am 18% more insightful, 20% less agreeable, and 88% more awesome.2 -
Acrolas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Once you start playing around with racial skill stats, it's surprising how quickly they become imbalanced. It's not ideal for every race to do anything they want, but what we have now in the game is one of the better solutions that could have been devised.
That said,Lore
signing off4 -
Dragath✭✭✭✭No.
If you are willing to break the lore, then the only way to create a System where you can choose your Race without any min-maxing in mind, is a System where Passives are not bound to Races.2 -
dovakiin5574✭✭✭✭✭No.
If you are willing to break the lore, then the only way to create a System where you can choose your Race without any min-maxing in mind, is a System where Passives are not bound to Races.
Not exactly lore-breaking. There is mages, stamina, tanks and healer NPCs of every race throughout the game.PAPSMEAR - Positively Against Paws SMEAR campaign - Say YES to crown crates2 -
Silver_Strider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The numbers for some are absurd but the idea has merit.
Maybe if they added an option at character creation to select upbringing that opened up an avenue for these passives to be brought to light, it could work. Just fine tune the numbers and we might have something.Argonian forever0 -
Mindcr0w✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭dovakiin5574 wrote: »
Not exactly lore-breaking. There is mages, stamina, tanks and healer NPCs of every race throughout the game.
The existence of a Breton fighter doesn't break lore.
A Breton being better at being a fighter because they're a Breton does.
4 -
dovakiin5574✭✭✭✭✭dovakiin5574 wrote: »I have done some research on racial passives
Where?
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Breton+Racial+Skills
Lists all racial passivesPAPSMEAR - Positively Against Paws SMEAR campaign - Say YES to crown crates0 -
WakeYourGhost✭✭✭✭✭dovakiin5574 wrote: »No.
If you are willing to break the lore, then the only way to create a System where you can choose your Race without any min-maxing in mind, is a System where Passives are not bound to Races.
Not exactly lore-breaking. There is mages, stamina, tanks and healer NPCs of every race throughout the game.
That.. That isn't even a damned argument. It's just "Not everyone specializes in what their Race is specialized in, so obviously that means different versions that Min-max for that race doing different things exist"
A real world example - I'm Irish and I don't even drink.... Often....
Being born a Breton with gifted talent in Magicka doesn't mean you won't just pick up a sword and run around chopping things to bits because it feels right to you.
A person with an Olympic-level physique who wants to be a Clown isn't a Different Racial Sub-type... They're just weird.
Doesn't detract from their physical prowess - Just mean's it's likely not being used to it's full potential.
I really dislike the idea of changing Racial Passives for the sake of Min-Maxing someone's OTP instead of taking the small statistical hit - But trying to "lore justify" this crap is just vulgar.5 -
dovakiin5574✭✭✭✭✭WakeYourGhost wrote: »dovakiin5574 wrote: »No.
If you are willing to break the lore, then the only way to create a System where you can choose your Race without any min-maxing in mind, is a System where Passives are not bound to Races.
Not exactly lore-breaking. There is mages, stamina, tanks and healer NPCs of every race throughout the game.
That.. That isn't even a damned argument. It's just "Not everyone specializes in what their Race is specialized in, so obviously that means different versions that Min-max for that race doing different things exist"
A real world example - I'm Irish and I don't even drink.... Often....
Being born a Breton with gifted talent in Magicka doesn't mean you won't just pick up a sword and run around chopping things to bits because it feels right to you.
A person with an Olympic-level physique who wants to be a Clown isn't a Different Racial Sub-type... They're just weird.
Doesn't detract from their physical prowess - Just mean's it's likely not being used to it's full potential.
I really dislike the idea of changing Racial Passives for the sake of Min-Maxing someone's OTP instead of taking the small statistical hit - But trying to "lore justify" this crap is just vulgar.
I disagree. There are many lore examples for things such as Khajiiti mages who mind the Moon Temples. Breton knights who serve the King. Literally Altmer knights too who serve their Queen. Nords and Orcs in the mages guild, that are actually good mages. Orcs have their wise women and poison makers. The Ashlanders from Dunmer lore generally are dual wielders and archers, they are more stamina oriented however the wise woman is more magic based. Wood Elves have what they call Spinners who use magic. Imperial mages are literally a thing since forever. Argonian warriors and guerilla fighters are well known from the rebellions against their Dark Elf slave masters. So I don't see how it is "vulgar" when it truly does fit the lore.PAPSMEAR - Positively Against Paws SMEAR campaign - Say YES to crown crates4 -
dovakiin5574✭✭✭✭✭(The Warden class is WAY more lore-breaking)PAPSMEAR - Positively Against Paws SMEAR campaign - Say YES to crown crates1
-
WakeYourGhost✭✭✭✭✭dovakiin5574 wrote: »WakeYourGhost wrote: »dovakiin5574 wrote: »No.
If you are willing to break the lore, then the only way to create a System where you can choose your Race without any min-maxing in mind, is a System where Passives are not bound to Races.
Not exactly lore-breaking. There is mages, stamina, tanks and healer NPCs of every race throughout the game.
That.. That isn't even a damned argument. It's just "Not everyone specializes in what their Race is specialized in, so obviously that means different versions that Min-max for that race doing different things exist"
A real world example - I'm Irish and I don't even drink.... Often....
Being born a Breton with gifted talent in Magicka doesn't mean you won't just pick up a sword and run around chopping things to bits because it feels right to you.
A person with an Olympic-level physique who wants to be a Clown isn't a Different Racial Sub-type... They're just weird.
Doesn't detract from their physical prowess - Just mean's it's likely not being used to it's full potential.
I really dislike the idea of changing Racial Passives for the sake of Min-Maxing someone's OTP instead of taking the small statistical hit - But trying to "lore justify" this crap is just vulgar.
I disagree. There are many lore examples for things such as Khajiiti mages who mind the Moon Temples. Breton knights who serve the King. Literally Altmer knights too who serve their Queen. Nords and Orcs in the mages guild, that are actually good mages. Orcs have their wise women and poison makers. The Ashlanders from Dunmer lore generally are dual wielders and archers, they are more stamina oriented however the wise woman is more magic based. Wood Elves have what they call Spinners who use magic. Imperial mages are literally a thing since forever. Argonian warriors and guerilla fighters are well known from the rebellions against their Dark Elf slave masters. So I don't see how it is "vulgar" when it truly does fit the lore.
Again, I point out, just because an Altmer is a Knight doesn't mean they don't have the same potential with Magicka - They just aren't using it to a significant degree.
Racial passives are just a set of things that said race is generally talented at.
If your entire family is nothing but Cops and you turn out to be a Taxidermist, you didn't get another set of "family passives" - You just didn't follow the trope.3 -
dovakiin5574✭✭✭✭✭WakeYourGhost wrote: »dovakiin5574 wrote: »WakeYourGhost wrote: »dovakiin5574 wrote: »No.
If you are willing to break the lore, then the only way to create a System where you can choose your Race without any min-maxing in mind, is a System where Passives are not bound to Races.
Not exactly lore-breaking. There is mages, stamina, tanks and healer NPCs of every race throughout the game.
That.. That isn't even a damned argument. It's just "Not everyone specializes in what their Race is specialized in, so obviously that means different versions that Min-max for that race doing different things exist"
A real world example - I'm Irish and I don't even drink.... Often....
Being born a Breton with gifted talent in Magicka doesn't mean you won't just pick up a sword and run around chopping things to bits because it feels right to you.
A person with an Olympic-level physique who wants to be a Clown isn't a Different Racial Sub-type... They're just weird.
Doesn't detract from their physical prowess - Just mean's it's likely not being used to it's full potential.
I really dislike the idea of changing Racial Passives for the sake of Min-Maxing someone's OTP instead of taking the small statistical hit - But trying to "lore justify" this crap is just vulgar.
I disagree. There are many lore examples for things such as Khajiiti mages who mind the Moon Temples. Breton knights who serve the King. Literally Altmer knights too who serve their Queen. Nords and Orcs in the mages guild, that are actually good mages. Orcs have their wise women and poison makers. The Ashlanders from Dunmer lore generally are dual wielders and archers, they are more stamina oriented however the wise woman is more magic based. Wood Elves have what they call Spinners who use magic. Imperial mages are literally a thing since forever. Argonian warriors and guerilla fighters are well known from the rebellions against their Dark Elf slave masters. So I don't see how it is "vulgar" when it truly does fit the lore.
Again, I point out, just because an Altmer is a Knight doesn't mean they don't have the same potential with Magicka - They just aren't using it to a significant degree.
Racial passives are just a set of things that said race is generally talented at.
If your entire family is nothing but Cops and you turn out to be a Taxidermist, you didn't get another set of "family passives" - You just didn't follow the trope.
I mean if your parents are grocery clerks and you go to college and become an IT professional, are you still only useful as a grocery clerk? Is the IT professional that had IT professional parents a better IT professional?PAPSMEAR - Positively Against Paws SMEAR campaign - Say YES to crown crates2 -
Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No
Sure there are races which do everything, but that's not what their racial physiology or culture lends itself to however. The only reason to add variants for Stam/Mag is to appease the people who want to be X race and power game.dovakiin5574 wrote: »WakeYourGhost wrote: »dovakiin5574 wrote: »No.
If you are willing to break the lore, then the only way to create a System where you can choose your Race without any min-maxing in mind, is a System where Passives are not bound to Races.
Not exactly lore-breaking. There is mages, stamina, tanks and healer NPCs of every race throughout the game.
That.. That isn't even a damned argument. It's just "Not everyone specializes in what their Race is specialized in, so obviously that means different versions that Min-max for that race doing different things exist"
A real world example - I'm Irish and I don't even drink.... Often....
Being born a Breton with gifted talent in Magicka doesn't mean you won't just pick up a sword and run around chopping things to bits because it feels right to you.
A person with an Olympic-level physique who wants to be a Clown isn't a Different Racial Sub-type... They're just weird.
Doesn't detract from their physical prowess - Just mean's it's likely not being used to it's full potential.
I really dislike the idea of changing Racial Passives for the sake of Min-Maxing someone's OTP instead of taking the small statistical hit - But trying to "lore justify" this crap is just vulgar.
I disagree. There are many lore examples for things such as Khajiiti mages who mind the Moon Temples. Breton knights who serve the King. Literally Altmer knights too who serve their Queen. Nords and Orcs in the mages guild, that are actually good mages. Orcs have their wise women and poison makers. The Ashlanders from Dunmer lore generally are dual wielders and archers, they are more stamina oriented however the wise woman is more magic based. Wood Elves have what they call Spinners who use magic. Imperial mages are literally a thing since forever. Argonian warriors and guerilla fighters are well known from the rebellions against their Dark Elf slave masters. So I don't see how it is "vulgar" when it truly does fit the lore.
Unless you're going to leaderboards the difference is not going to be that big any way, people just refuse to accept that. Woeler is a Khajiit Tank FFS and doing the games hardest content. Player skill is more important than these passives, just people can't ever seem to understand that.
@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."4 -
dovakiin5574✭✭✭✭✭No
Sure there are races which do everything, but that's not what their racial physiology or culture lends itself to however. The only reason to add variants for Stam/Mag is to appease the people who want to be X race and power game.dovakiin5574 wrote: »WakeYourGhost wrote: »dovakiin5574 wrote: »No.
If you are willing to break the lore, then the only way to create a System where you can choose your Race without any min-maxing in mind, is a System where Passives are not bound to Races.
Not exactly lore-breaking. There is mages, stamina, tanks and healer NPCs of every race throughout the game.
That.. That isn't even a damned argument. It's just "Not everyone specializes in what their Race is specialized in, so obviously that means different versions that Min-max for that race doing different things exist"
A real world example - I'm Irish and I don't even drink.... Often....
Being born a Breton with gifted talent in Magicka doesn't mean you won't just pick up a sword and run around chopping things to bits because it feels right to you.
A person with an Olympic-level physique who wants to be a Clown isn't a Different Racial Sub-type... They're just weird.
Doesn't detract from their physical prowess - Just mean's it's likely not being used to it's full potential.
I really dislike the idea of changing Racial Passives for the sake of Min-Maxing someone's OTP instead of taking the small statistical hit - But trying to "lore justify" this crap is just vulgar.
I disagree. There are many lore examples for things such as Khajiiti mages who mind the Moon Temples. Breton knights who serve the King. Literally Altmer knights too who serve their Queen. Nords and Orcs in the mages guild, that are actually good mages. Orcs have their wise women and poison makers. The Ashlanders from Dunmer lore generally are dual wielders and archers, they are more stamina oriented however the wise woman is more magic based. Wood Elves have what they call Spinners who use magic. Imperial mages are literally a thing since forever. Argonian warriors and guerilla fighters are well known from the rebellions against their Dark Elf slave masters. So I don't see how it is "vulgar" when it truly does fit the lore.
Unless you're going to leaderboards the difference is not going to be that big any way, people just refuse to accept that. Woeler is a Khajiit Tank FFS and doing the games hardest content. Player skill is more important than these passives, just people can't ever seem to understand that.
Bad example, Khajiit tanks are really strong. And the point is to add more variety. And sure why not help people find a niche that they can be good at? Player skill does have a lot to do with it. It is just the minor details and those minor details can mean the difference between 35k and 40k dps. Small sure, but again, variety and just QoLPAPSMEAR - Positively Against Paws SMEAR campaign - Say YES to crown crates0 -
WakeYourGhost✭✭✭✭✭dovakiin5574 wrote: »WakeYourGhost wrote: »dovakiin5574 wrote: »WakeYourGhost wrote: »dovakiin5574 wrote: »No.
If you are willing to break the lore, then the only way to create a System where you can choose your Race without any min-maxing in mind, is a System where Passives are not bound to Races.
Not exactly lore-breaking. There is mages, stamina, tanks and healer NPCs of every race throughout the game.
That.. That isn't even a damned argument. It's just "Not everyone specializes in what their Race is specialized in, so obviously that means different versions that Min-max for that race doing different things exist"
A real world example - I'm Irish and I don't even drink.... Often....
Being born a Breton with gifted talent in Magicka doesn't mean you won't just pick up a sword and run around chopping things to bits because it feels right to you.
A person with an Olympic-level physique who wants to be a Clown isn't a Different Racial Sub-type... They're just weird.
Doesn't detract from their physical prowess - Just mean's it's likely not being used to it's full potential.
I really dislike the idea of changing Racial Passives for the sake of Min-Maxing someone's OTP instead of taking the small statistical hit - But trying to "lore justify" this crap is just vulgar.
I disagree. There are many lore examples for things such as Khajiiti mages who mind the Moon Temples. Breton knights who serve the King. Literally Altmer knights too who serve their Queen. Nords and Orcs in the mages guild, that are actually good mages. Orcs have their wise women and poison makers. The Ashlanders from Dunmer lore generally are dual wielders and archers, they are more stamina oriented however the wise woman is more magic based. Wood Elves have what they call Spinners who use magic. Imperial mages are literally a thing since forever. Argonian warriors and guerilla fighters are well known from the rebellions against their Dark Elf slave masters. So I don't see how it is "vulgar" when it truly does fit the lore.
Again, I point out, just because an Altmer is a Knight doesn't mean they don't have the same potential with Magicka - They just aren't using it to a significant degree.
Racial passives are just a set of things that said race is generally talented at.
If your entire family is nothing but Cops and you turn out to be a Taxidermist, you didn't get another set of "family passives" - You just didn't follow the trope.
I mean if your parents are grocery clerks and you go to college and become an IT professional, are you still only useful as a grocery clerk? Is the IT professional that had IT professional parents a better IT professional?
If I make a Khajiit Healer, it'll still be able to heal - I'll only suffer a small statistical drawback from being a Khajiit instead of a Magicka based race (IT professional from a family of Grocery Clerks)
If I make an Argonian Healer, it will be naturally slightly better at the task, having advantages from the start that continue to give it an edge through it's life - Yet it will ultimately only be a small percent better than the previously mentioned Khajiit (It Professional from a Family of IT Professionals.)
Min-Maxing stats doesn't fit with the Lore any better than making the Lamia a playable race would.
These Racial passives fall roughly in line with a semi-consistent and generally refined concept present in the Lore of the Series overall. Khajiit are always sneaky, as are Bosmer. Altmer are always naturally talented in Magic. Dunmer like burning things and people. Bretons have an easy time with Magic compared to other Men. Nords are drunks who favor physical resistance and prowess.
This doesn't mean there aren't plenty of people who escape their racial Tropes/Strerotypes.
A Nord Mage has an Uphill battle when compared to an Altmer Mage. It's just fact.2 -
dovakiin5574✭✭✭✭✭WakeYourGhost wrote: »dovakiin5574 wrote: »WakeYourGhost wrote: »dovakiin5574 wrote: »WakeYourGhost wrote: »dovakiin5574 wrote: »No.
If you are willing to break the lore, then the only way to create a System where you can choose your Race without any min-maxing in mind, is a System where Passives are not bound to Races.
Not exactly lore-breaking. There is mages, stamina, tanks and healer NPCs of every race throughout the game.
That.. That isn't even a damned argument. It's just "Not everyone specializes in what their Race is specialized in, so obviously that means different versions that Min-max for that race doing different things exist"
A real world example - I'm Irish and I don't even drink.... Often....
Being born a Breton with gifted talent in Magicka doesn't mean you won't just pick up a sword and run around chopping things to bits because it feels right to you.
A person with an Olympic-level physique who wants to be a Clown isn't a Different Racial Sub-type... They're just weird.
Doesn't detract from their physical prowess - Just mean's it's likely not being used to it's full potential.
I really dislike the idea of changing Racial Passives for the sake of Min-Maxing someone's OTP instead of taking the small statistical hit - But trying to "lore justify" this crap is just vulgar.
I disagree. There are many lore examples for things such as Khajiiti mages who mind the Moon Temples. Breton knights who serve the King. Literally Altmer knights too who serve their Queen. Nords and Orcs in the mages guild, that are actually good mages. Orcs have their wise women and poison makers. The Ashlanders from Dunmer lore generally are dual wielders and archers, they are more stamina oriented however the wise woman is more magic based. Wood Elves have what they call Spinners who use magic. Imperial mages are literally a thing since forever. Argonian warriors and guerilla fighters are well known from the rebellions against their Dark Elf slave masters. So I don't see how it is "vulgar" when it truly does fit the lore.
Again, I point out, just because an Altmer is a Knight doesn't mean they don't have the same potential with Magicka - They just aren't using it to a significant degree.
Racial passives are just a set of things that said race is generally talented at.
If your entire family is nothing but Cops and you turn out to be a Taxidermist, you didn't get another set of "family passives" - You just didn't follow the trope.
I mean if your parents are grocery clerks and you go to college and become an IT professional, are you still only useful as a grocery clerk? Is the IT professional that had IT professional parents a better IT professional?
If I make a Khajiit Healer, it'll still be able to heal - I'll only suffer a small statistical drawback from being a Khajiit instead of a Magicka based race (IT professional from a family of Grocery Clerks)
If I make an Argonian Healer, it will be naturally slightly better at the task, having advantages from the start that continue to give it an edge through it's life - Yet it will ultimately only be a small percent better than the previously mentioned Khajiit (It Professional from a Family of IT Professionals.)
Min-Maxing stats doesn't fit with the Lore any better than making the Lamia a playable race would.
These Racial passives fall roughly in line with a semi-consistent and generally refined concept present in the Lore of the Series overall. Khajiit are always sneaky, as are Bosmer. Altmer are always naturally talented in Magic. Dunmer like burning things and people. Bretons have an easy time with Magic compared to other Men. Nords are drunks who favor physical resistance and prowess.
This doesn't mean there aren't plenty of people who escape their racial Tropes/Strerotypes.
A Nord Mage has an Uphill battle when compared to an Altmer Mage. It's just fact.
Again the IT professional example you are using in the wrong way. It is possible for an Altmer to be born dumb as a door nail but tough (stamina) and a Khajiit to be born weak and clumsy but intelligent (mage).PAPSMEAR - Positively Against Paws SMEAR campaign - Say YES to crown crates1 -
WuffyCerulei✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I'm for it! Every race has mages, warriors, and whatnot. I mean, just wander through each zone, and you'll see em. Saying ALL of each race can only be suitable for one or two very specific roles is atrocious.Sorcerer's pretty much been the same for years. Nerf Rush of Agony and Saints&Seducer's2 -
WakeYourGhost✭✭✭✭✭dovakiin5574 wrote: »WakeYourGhost wrote: »dovakiin5574 wrote: »WakeYourGhost wrote: »dovakiin5574 wrote: »WakeYourGhost wrote: »dovakiin5574 wrote: »No.
If you are willing to break the lore, then the only way to create a System where you can choose your Race without any min-maxing in mind, is a System where Passives are not bound to Races.
Not exactly lore-breaking. There is mages, stamina, tanks and healer NPCs of every race throughout the game.
That.. That isn't even a damned argument. It's just "Not everyone specializes in what their Race is specialized in, so obviously that means different versions that Min-max for that race doing different things exist"
A real world example - I'm Irish and I don't even drink.... Often....
Being born a Breton with gifted talent in Magicka doesn't mean you won't just pick up a sword and run around chopping things to bits because it feels right to you.
A person with an Olympic-level physique who wants to be a Clown isn't a Different Racial Sub-type... They're just weird.
Doesn't detract from their physical prowess - Just mean's it's likely not being used to it's full potential.
I really dislike the idea of changing Racial Passives for the sake of Min-Maxing someone's OTP instead of taking the small statistical hit - But trying to "lore justify" this crap is just vulgar.
I disagree. There are many lore examples for things such as Khajiiti mages who mind the Moon Temples. Breton knights who serve the King. Literally Altmer knights too who serve their Queen. Nords and Orcs in the mages guild, that are actually good mages. Orcs have their wise women and poison makers. The Ashlanders from Dunmer lore generally are dual wielders and archers, they are more stamina oriented however the wise woman is more magic based. Wood Elves have what they call Spinners who use magic. Imperial mages are literally a thing since forever. Argonian warriors and guerilla fighters are well known from the rebellions against their Dark Elf slave masters. So I don't see how it is "vulgar" when it truly does fit the lore.
Again, I point out, just because an Altmer is a Knight doesn't mean they don't have the same potential with Magicka - They just aren't using it to a significant degree.
Racial passives are just a set of things that said race is generally talented at.
If your entire family is nothing but Cops and you turn out to be a Taxidermist, you didn't get another set of "family passives" - You just didn't follow the trope.
I mean if your parents are grocery clerks and you go to college and become an IT professional, are you still only useful as a grocery clerk? Is the IT professional that had IT professional parents a better IT professional?
If I make a Khajiit Healer, it'll still be able to heal - I'll only suffer a small statistical drawback from being a Khajiit instead of a Magicka based race (IT professional from a family of Grocery Clerks)
If I make an Argonian Healer, it will be naturally slightly better at the task, having advantages from the start that continue to give it an edge through it's life - Yet it will ultimately only be a small percent better than the previously mentioned Khajiit (It Professional from a Family of IT Professionals.)
Min-Maxing stats doesn't fit with the Lore any better than making the Lamia a playable race would.
These Racial passives fall roughly in line with a semi-consistent and generally refined concept present in the Lore of the Series overall. Khajiit are always sneaky, as are Bosmer. Altmer are always naturally talented in Magic. Dunmer like burning things and people. Bretons have an easy time with Magic compared to other Men. Nords are drunks who favor physical resistance and prowess.
This doesn't mean there aren't plenty of people who escape their racial Tropes/Strerotypes.
A Nord Mage has an Uphill battle when compared to an Altmer Mage. It's just fact.
Again the IT professional example you are using in the wrong way. It is possible for an Altmer to be born dumb as a door nail but tough (stamina) and a Khajiit to be born weak and clumsy but intelligent (mage).
Of course it's possible for a stupid Altmer.. Doesn't change that FACT that on a Genetic and Spiritual Level, they are Attuned to Magicka in a way no other Race truly is. Being born dumb as a plank won't change things like that.
A clumsy Khajiit is also referenced... Yet, still, in them is a primal nature tended to being a sneak with a vicious strike.
It doesn't matter if one or two don't fit with the "passives". That doesn't really change that they have those features.
Also - A Sword-weilding Altmer doesn't have to be "dumb as a door nail", spellswords exist.
You're ignoring all precedent and Lore to try to prove your headcannon for why a Breton may pick up a sword and run screaming in to battle is Right.
Being born to a Cultural Identity or a Genetic Identity (Or a Spiritual Identity) doesn't Change based on the choices you make in life. It is what it is - You overcome the things you are "forced" in to, accept your strengths and use them, or find a middle ground.
Dying your hair doesn't change the original color. It just changes how you look.
Defying your Racial Traits doesn't change the nature of your Race. It just changes how you use those strengths and weaknesses.1 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No.
If you are willing to break the lore, then the only way to create a System where you can choose your Race without any min-maxing in mind, is a System where Passives are not bound to Races.
Nothing I've seen here is breaking lore.
Some people break from their racial molds, not everyone is the same. And the game has many questlines proving that.
Khajiit have mages. Orcs have mages. Redguards, do, on occasion, produce mages, and visa versa.Edited by Doctordarkspawn on March 4, 2018 10:19AM1 -
WakeYourGhost✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »No.
If you are willing to break the lore, then the only way to create a System where you can choose your Race without any min-maxing in mind, is a System where Passives are not bound to Races.
Nothing I've seen here is breaking lore.
Some people break from their racial molds, not everyone is the same. And the game has many questlines proving that.
Khajiit have mages. Orcs have mages. Redguards, do, on occasion, produce mages, and visa versa.
That doesn't mean those [insert race here] mages have "different passives"
They have the same racial strengths and weaknesses - The same base traits.
They just follow a different path.
It's not like it's impossible to be a Mage with a bonus to Stamina Regen.4 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WakeYourGhost wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »No.
If you are willing to break the lore, then the only way to create a System where you can choose your Race without any min-maxing in mind, is a System where Passives are not bound to Races.
Nothing I've seen here is breaking lore.
Some people break from their racial molds, not everyone is the same. And the game has many questlines proving that.
Khajiit have mages. Orcs have mages. Redguards, do, on occasion, produce mages, and visa versa.
That doesn't mean those [insert race here] mages have "different passives"
They have the same racial strengths and weaknesses - The same base traits.
They just follow a different path.
It's not like it's impossible to be a Mage with a bonus to Stamina Regen.
They dont get it-what-because of some arbitrary decision?
In previous elder scrolls games, the passives are as neutral as possible in order to limit the ammount of damage chosing a non optimal race was going to whatever build you'd go with. Simple skill increases or weaknesses that all members of the race got.
I see no difference between that, and this. The only thing I see, is the same 'You cant have nice things' mentality we see in vampire appearence hiding threads and similar.
And that isn't sufficient. Neither is lore, given examples of these races being mages is all over the place. The proposal is fine, get over it.Edited by Doctordarkspawn on March 4, 2018 10:45AM1
