RACE PASSIVES - A comprehensive and well researched suggestion
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TheShadowScout✭✭✭✭✭
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Sure can - if they put all their attribute points in magica rather then stamina. Duh.Doctordarkspawn wrote: »A khajiit can be incredibly clumsey but good at spellcasting.
Sure can - if they put all their attribute points in magica rather then stamina. Duh.Doctordarkspawn wrote: »A orc can be not all that great with a sword, but great with a staff.
Sure can - then they put all their attribute points in stamina rather then magica. Duh.Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Or an Altmer who simply dislikes the use of magic.
Certainly.Doctordarkspawn wrote: »These people exist, even in IRL. A family produces people of a certain profession until suddenly someone just does not pick up the family buisness. Genetic anomolies happen, so if you wanna use -that- arguement, I can likely find you examples to the contrary.
And you can -always- choose not to spend any skill points on your racial passives.
There - genetic anomaly, finished!
But that does not mean a pale-skinned scandinavian family will somehow out of the blue have a kid with a resistance to sunburn like an dark-skinned african family...not without mixing genes, and the powers that be have decreed in the mystical working sof their world that sort of thing just doesn't happen anymore in Tamriel, where every child has the racial characteristics of their mother. Say, all the genes from mommy are naturally switched dominant, and the ones from daddy regressive if you want some sciencebabble for it.
So your argument does -not- excuse any call for cherry picking passives.
Not. At. All.
Whatever makes people think that this has anything to do with racial passives???Mettaricana wrote: »Keep telling your selves lore...
Shalidor the nord mage
Ayrenn the altmer warrior
Darian the breton knight
Every khajiit in the game mage
Every bosmer a mage
King kurog is basically a magicka dk
Abnur tharn the max health and stam imperial staffwielder
Most powerful people in the game don't even follow lore...
Like I keep mentioning... attributes!
It literally does not matter a bit of altmer make better mages then warriors when any given altmer trains as warrior, puts their points into stamina instead, and goes off to bash peopne with a sharp sword! Or any other race - the one has -nothing- to do with the other!
And what do you mean with "powerful"? Did ayrenn seem very useful compared to your combat ability the times she went with you? Did abner tharn? All they have going for them is being protected by plot from getting their faces ground into the dirt...
They are not powerful because they are the best at what they do, but because of their social standing!
Shalidor is an exception, but that's just it - he is so special -because- he is the exception, a nord who managed to become an powerful archmage! Noone cares about the numerous altmer mages of eqal or better power, those are a dime a dozend in tamriel history... but the nord who -somehow- managed to get there, that one is remembered!3 -
Kalante✭✭✭✭✭
✭The ES lore is racist. The races do not race mix? or is an argonian and khajiit not compatible to mate? that way we have max crit and mending on this hybrid weird thing.Edited by Kalante on March 4, 2018 5:14PM0 -
xaraan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sorry, I know it wont' fit with most players desire to have everything they want, but I like the racial choices mattering.
I would not like to see a stam/magicka of each race - the racials aren't just b/c a group of that race went into being knights or witches or whatever even though they might normally be known for the opposite. The passives come from generations of a race existing a certain way, whether it's the way the race came to be, where they live, a combination, etc.
Bretons should have the magicka bonuses they do, not just get a stam version of something b/c they claim they are a knight of something. That's what makes a breton a breton - you know a breton is going to have a little magicka hint to them whether they are a mage or warrior - just giving them some phys pen for the heck of it doesn't work IMO.
The only thing that needs to change is a couple races need some buffs to their passives. Like, Breton is often a weak choice for a mage type class compared to some others, maybe adding a little spell pen to their magic resist passive would equalize that a little. Or Nord, not a horrible list of stats other than health recovery being useless - but giving them something with stam recovery of some sort might help them be as least competitive for roles (esp since they are known as hardy people and having good stam goes along with good health).Edited by xaraan on March 4, 2018 5:15PM-- @xaraan --
nightblade: Xaraan • templar: Xaraan-dar • dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus • necromancer: Xaraan-qa • warden: Xaraanodon • sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
AD • NA • PC3 -
Tonturri✭✭✭✭✭-Something- needs to change, at least. The current game is built in such a way that, if you're a magicka character, almost any investment into stamina is a waste (unless it's a flat bonus - Amber Plasm is a really good example of this, same with tri-stat food and prismatic enchants). So, a Bosmer can gain anywhere from 100-400 worth of (say) stam regen from their racial passive if a stamina build, but a Bosmer magicka character gains...zilch. Things would be SO much different if that 100-400 stamina regen was a flat bonus, instead of a percentage.
So, before ZOS tries anything like revamping the entire racial system, I'd like them to make all racials flat bonuses. This way, you don't have what is supposedly an absolutely super amazing stamina-racial-passive race giving...nearly zero benefit to any magicka characters.
Ideally I'd like to be able to just choose my passive and disconnect the whole thing from race. I don't think the way stats function in this game is going to change anytime soon, and I"d rather just have my Bosmer get 10% max magicka, etcetc, buuuut I know some people will kick a fit over that. How about we try just changing everything to a flat bonus first? Altmer gain 1-2k max magicka and 100-200 magicka regen, Bosmer gain a flat amount of stamina and a flat amount of regen (so that even a magicka Bosmer has actually noticeable extra stam sustain), etc etc.2 -
TheShadowScout✭✭✭✭✭
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...and that one I can agree with!-Something- needs to change, at least...
I for one, as I often state, would very much prefer is they brought back attribute softcaps, giving you diminishing results and making people think twice about where they pot their points in, rathen then supporting the current system where "put everything into attack power" is the optimal strategy for most...
And then... let the racial benefits just add a flat rate to attributes, which merely means you would reach those softcaps sooner instead of a percentage on top of everything to make the super-effective builds even more effective...
...but that would be going against the whole elder scrolls lore. Doable in some other game, here its asking for trouble...Ideally I'd like to be able to just choose my passive and disconnect the whole thing from race.1 -
Kendaric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭TheShadowScout wrote: »
...and that one I can agree with!-Something- needs to change, at least...
I for one, as I often state, would very much prefer is they brought back attribute softcaps, giving you diminishing results and making people think twice about where they pot their points in, rathen then supporting the current system where "put everything into attack power" is the optimal strategy for most...
And then... let the racial benefits just add a flat rate to attributes, which merely means you would reach those softcaps sooner instead of a percentage on top of everything to make the super-effective builds even more effective....
Yeah, the return of softcaps is something I'd love to see as well. It would solve a lot of problems with ESO.
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Tonturri✭✭✭✭✭TheShadowScout wrote: »
...and that one I can agree with!-Something- needs to change, at least...
I for one, as I often state, would very much prefer is they brought back attribute softcaps, giving you diminishing results and making people think twice about where they pot their points in, rathen then supporting the current system where "put everything into attack power" is the optimal strategy for most...
And then... let the racial benefits just add a flat rate to attributes, which merely means you would reach those softcaps sooner instead of a percentage on top of everything to make the super-effective builds even more effective...
...but that would be going against the whole elder scrolls lore. Doable in some other game, here its asking for trouble...Ideally I'd like to be able to just choose my passive and disconnect the whole thing from race.
Yeah. Just a personal preference. I mean, I understand the stance on it. I really do. I RP a whole lot, but also really enjoy min/maxing, and knowing that my Altmer's extra magicka comes from a race thing as opposed to just another passive isn't really something I care about. Actually, it wouldn't be against lore because it wouldn't be a racial passive xD Then they could give more fun-stuff or QoL bonuses as racial passives (like leveling a certain skill line easier)
As for soft caps, I do think they need to come back...in a different form. Previously, as I recall, the softcaps were quite...severe. As in, you could keep investing in a stat after you reached soft cap, but there really wasn't any point. If those same soft caps came back as the game is now, we're just have everyone at a soft cap of...pretty much everything, I think. I think the soft caps gave the illusion of build variety, while in reality limiting them because (again, as I recall) it was just a matter of reaching soft cap in as many stats as were slightly beneficial to you as possible.
I do think they need to come back, but they need to scale a bit differently - if people want to do a 50k magicka, 3k spell dmg glass cannon shield build, I think they should be able to do so and see some real benefit from it. But on the other hand, a 50k magicka sorc shouldn't be so much stronger than a sorc who doesn't use shields. Sorcs are a REALLY good example of what's gone wrong. You either invest heavily into magicka and use shields, or you're not very effective in comparison or you go stamina. And that's it (or I suppose youre a masochist/whatever, but that is neither here nor there) I'd love to do a heavy armor sorc (for example), but it -won't work-. It's not a build flaw, it will just be ineffective even compared to the laziest of crafted-armor-est of ~40k magicka builds using shields.
But that's getting into other issues and this is racial passives (though I do think racials contribute to the problem).
Edit: I'd also like health regen to be worthwhile even to builds that don't completely focus on health regen. Like how stamina is still really useful to magicka setups. Currently, you either go balls to the wall health regen, troll king, or totally ignore it. And you can't invest in it even the slightest amount on, say, a magicka setup because you'll lose out on a good chunk of something else you really need, like switching out a magicka regen glyph for health regen. It's just not worth it and will damage your effectiveness. This would give +health regen racial passives more meaning, instead of a 'oh joy, 10% more of 300 health regen because I'm a vampire'.Edited by Tonturri on March 4, 2018 8:05PM0 -
dovakiin5574✭✭✭✭✭The ES lore is racist. The races do not race mix? or is an argonian and khajiit not compatible to mate? that way we have max crit and mending on this hybrid weird thing.
Take a look at the ES book "The Real Barenziah" - Race mixing is very possiblePAPSMEAR - Positively Against Paws SMEAR campaign - Say YES to crown crates0 -
Slick_007✭✭✭✭✭
✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »
I'd love to see the devs respond and agree with us. And I'd love to read your response. I'm sure it'd be pure gold.
im sure you'd love someone to tell you its a great idea instead of everyone telling you the truth. unfortunately, you're stuck with the truth. Its a poor idea. Yes you put some thought into it, but just not in the right place.1 -
Glurin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭dovakiin5574 wrote: »
Yes, but as TheShadowScout pointed out it's the women that carry all the dominant genes.
(There's gotta be a joke about the women always wearing the pants in the relationship in there somewhere. ) "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster...when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you..."2 -
Somber97866✭✭✭✭✭Looks awesome but will probably never happen cause it makes sense and cause you need alcast ( or equivalent ) to help bang it into ZOS thick skulls.
Oh and need a race that increases magic damage since different than fire shock and I've damage.0 -
MakoFore✭✭✭✭✭
✭nice ideas. i dont like the idea of being locked into a playstyle because of a race- that s inherently- well - racist. i wanted to be a breton and wield a sword and shield like a knight- and be an orc with a mage staff- but doing so would only impair my potential as an end gamer. yes you can play what u want- but once u hit max cp as i have and take part in end game trials- every little bit helps. i think the ideas you propose are really worth zos considering.1 -
Animus-ESO✭✭✭✭✭Im all for more character customization. People who are desperately holding on to this out dated racial passive system are simply being trolls and don't want any change. "I want my high elf to be better then any other race at magic just because" is a poor argument get over your self.
Dude Where's My Guar?1 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@TheShadowScout
Yeah I'm not going to respond to any of the quotes, I'ma just say, there's no point in responding to the greedy or narrow minded. Have fun with your attempts to badger people into silence.
"Lore" is code for peoples delicate sensibilities reguarding change.Edited by Doctordarkspawn on March 5, 2018 4:41AM1 -
dovakiin5574✭✭✭✭✭jasonthorpeb14_ESO wrote: »Im all for more character customization. People who are desperately holding on to this out dated racial passive system are simply being trolls and don't want any change. "I want my high elf to be better then any other race at magic just because" is a poor argument get over your self.
Agreed!PAPSMEAR - Positively Against Paws SMEAR campaign - Say YES to crown crates0 -
WakeYourGhost✭✭✭✭✭
Lore -Doctordarkspawn wrote: »"Lore" is code for -
"a body of traditions and knowledge on a subject or held by a particular group, typically passed from person to person by word of mouth."
More aptly, what we are really talking about is -
Precedent -
"an earlier event or action that is regarded as an example or guide to be considered in subsequent similar circumstances."
The games have an established Precedent about Race, biology, the Spiritual nature of the Races, and their Cultural and Genetic Heritage.
Previous games have also shown us that a majority of warriors can and will still use magic.
A Breton Swordsman likely focused their Magicka skills on Buffing themselves, same with Altmer.
Doesn't mean they are suddenly lacking in all Magical talent that their race naturally has - Just means they aren't min-maxing munchkin *** who refuse to look beyond small statistical benefits to just go with what feels right.
In the instance of those types of people "Change" is a word that really means "I can't understand why people don't want this game to drop all unique aspects of 'Elder Scrolls' story and just become a homogenized hack'n'slash with ultra-streamlined functions that remove independent flavor, context, and tradition in favor of easy Maximization of Damage Output above all else"
I'm perfectly fine with Change - Change class abilities, change Vampires, change Werewolves, Change classes entirely, add new classes, add new skills, give us three new races with overly spec'ed passives for those who want different Racial Passives, have us fight Alduin and become the Dragon Born suddenly, have us cause a Dragon Break and get thrust in to the 9th Era so we can see Hist Space-ships, Give us pretty skins for vampires, give us skins that make our werewolves look like Daedroth, allow for a new set of Quest Dialogues where our character isn't a frothing moron, make PvP entirely about playing long card games out in the field of battle - Really am fine with any and all change that doesn't make this Fundamentally stop being an Elder Scrolls game.
Changing what the various races of Nirn, born of formerly Immortal beings who's individual lifestyles changed and warped what they became, are and what they can do is kicking the story of these games in the nuts and spitting in it's face as it falls to it's knees.
Altmer are so Magicka inclined because they are nearly pure descendants of the Aldmer, themselves the children of the Et'Ada who maintained most of their Magic and Technology after the creation of Mundus. The other races of Mer are all variations on this who followed different paths and were shaped by their ties to certain Ehlnofey, Aedra, or Daedra. That is why Wood Elves are so physical, and Dunmer are so tied to Fire.
The races of Men are descended from the Ehlnofey who were numerous but left wandering after the creation of Mundus, lost in the chaos and wilds, adapting to survive the harsh conditions yet losing most of their magic and technology in the process. That is why they are so physically based - They had to survive harsh conditions with nearly no Magic to help.
Bretons are a product of cross-breeding Nedic Slaves with Aldmer and Eugenics programs of their Masters. This explains their Magicka heritage, and explains why it is less potent than Altmer yet they hold greater resistance.
Argonians are Beast-folk who are what the Hist made of them in Black Marsh. The Hist have guided their evolution and taught them things over the years, and become a part of their day-to-day lives.
Khajiit... Are just pretty kitty beasts. The area they live in, their culture, and their lack of ancestral magic makes them what they are.. Just the cuddliest little thieves there are..
If you are ignoring all of this because you want your Nord to be able to throw a a lightning bolt around 5% better, you're just being selfish.
If you think any of those changes are "lore friendly", you're just being willfully ignorant.
If you're judging people for not wanting this long, complex, well thought out, beautiful system of racial ancestry to be tossed aside just so people can feel like their character is more powerful... I just pity you.3 -
Slick_007✭✭✭✭✭
✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »
People need to just stop trying to stonewall any change this game potentially makes.
what if the change is stupid and the person proposing it doesnt consider that it breaks lore and just argues an invalid point every time its pointed out? should we 'stonewall' them then?2 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »
People need to just stop trying to stonewall any change this game potentially makes.
what if the change is stupid and the person proposing it doesnt consider that it breaks lore and just argues an invalid point every time its pointed out? should we 'stonewall' them then?
I have yet to see one person successfully prove to me that it breaks lore, as it is currently written. As it stands, we have multiple examples of members of a race who do not conform to the tallents those races traditionally show.
People can go on about precedent until their blue in the face. That does not change the fact the original grandaddy mage was a Nord. It does not change one of the grandmasters of Heavy Armor usage was an Altmer in Morrowind. It does not change that one of the most gifted Blunt users in Oblivion was a Breton, the Alteration master a Argonian, and so on and so fourth.
The fact is, people are just not that cut and dried. Even the people in ES. Agree to disagree if you like, but you keep parroting the same thing, and it isn't enough.
@WakeYourGhost Nobody wants the 9th era example. Your projecting.
As I've gone through, the games have predicent where people attain a level of mastery their race is not pre-disposed to. Or a level of timidness their race is not pre-disposed to. Also, people cant be born other places? Find they like other cultures better? Half the NPC's in this game are proof of that.
Said it once, will say it again. It's just resistance to change, and given the few of you still arguing are parroting the same thing over and over, you dont have any ironclad proof races simply cannot change, cannot evolve, cannot deviate from the norm. Only sith deal in absolutes.
Also, Ghost. Your forgeting something. Alfiq in lore are absolutely inclined toward magic, and are known to be some of the best mages. You are likely parroting Racial Physiology, which is a plainly biased account and was allways ment to be. There's that 'unreliable narrator' thing that people dont like to talk about in these situations. So why dont you educate yourself? Not to mention the clanmother roll being so closely associated with magic that it's almost painfull to the point where Khajiit have a name-honorific that indicates a mage and is A FEMALE HONORIFIC! Khajiit have a magical inclination, and you'd know if you ever researched that.
I could likely go into the myriad holes in that little racial summary, like the clever craft and clever men of the Nords, the fact that while magic as we know it is a predominantly elven invention the first mage to master it like none before was Shalindor, the Khajiit myths, but I think I'll stop for now.
Cherrypicking lore dont work when you debate someone who has an actual understanding of it.Edited by Doctordarkspawn on March 5, 2018 6:25AM0 -
WakeYourGhost✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »@WakeYourGhost Nobody wants the 9th era example. Your projecting.
As I've gone through, the games have predicent where people attain a level of mastery their race is not pre-disposed to. Or a level of timidness their race is not pre-disposed to. Also, people cant be born other places? Find they like other cultures better? Half the NPC's in this game are proof of that.
Said it once, will say it again. It's just resistance to change, and given the few of you still arguing are parroting the same thing over and over, you dont have any ironclad proof races simply cannot change, cannot evolve, cannot deviate from the norm. Only sith deal in absolutes.
Projecting what? It was a random comment in a list of Random Things that came to my head first when I thought of "change"
Here are the points you ignored -
Your racial traits don't stop you from being a badass supermage or a sword-lord. They may not line up with it, but it doesn't prevent you from becoming these things.
The races are descendant from Gods and Mythical Beings who passed on their traits to these races - Some of these Same Gods still shape the lives of these races, and keep their souls infused with the nature they favor.
Evolution is a long process that comes over thousands on thousands of years, and still wouldn't be a significant factor here.
A Khajiit can no more change their racial Traits than they can change their fur.
If you were asking for different races with different traits, that is one thing - Like the hinted-at-but-never-talked-about-again variants of Khajiit that could be an alternate race.
There are types of Khajiit that look nearly like Man or Mer - And there are types of Khajiit who look more like Senches.
You want different stats, look no further than THE *** LORE. Find out what alternatives there actually are in said lore instead of just going with the idea that we should have a pick-your-own bonus system or alternatives for specific races because people want a Redguard that looks like an Altmer.
I gave plenty of examples why your ideas and the OPs ideas are frankly stupid - Your incessant petty desire to have tiny irrelevant stat bonuses above all else has made you blind.
You want more options, ask for more races - There are plenty to *** choose from in the Lore.
You want your Altmer to have Stamina passives because you've seen one use a sword - Go roll in puddles across Black Marsh until you catch the Knahaten Flu.0 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WakeYourGhost wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »@WakeYourGhost Nobody wants the 9th era example. Your projecting.
As I've gone through, the games have predicent where people attain a level of mastery their race is not pre-disposed to. Or a level of timidness their race is not pre-disposed to. Also, people cant be born other places? Find they like other cultures better? Half the NPC's in this game are proof of that.
Said it once, will say it again. It's just resistance to change, and given the few of you still arguing are parroting the same thing over and over, you dont have any ironclad proof races simply cannot change, cannot evolve, cannot deviate from the norm. Only sith deal in absolutes.
Projecting what? It was a random comment in a list of Random Things that came to my head first when I thought of "change"
Here are the points you ignored -
Your racial traits don't stop you from being a badass supermage or a sword-lord. They may not line up with it, but it doesn't prevent you from becoming these things.
The races are descendant from Gods and Mythical Beings who passed on their traits to these races - Some of these Same Gods still shape the lives of these races, and keep their souls infused with the nature they favor.
Evolution is a long process that comes over thousands on thousands of years, and still wouldn't be a significant factor here.
A Khajiit can no more change their racial Traits than they can change their fur.
If you were asking for different races with different traits, that is one thing - Like the hinted-at-but-never-talked-about-again variants of Khajiit that could be an alternate race.
There are types of Khajiit that look nearly like Man or Mer - And there are types of Khajiit who look more like Senches.
You want different stats, look no further than THE *** LORE. Find out what alternatives there actually are in said lore instead of just going with the idea that we should have a pick-your-own bonus system or alternatives for specific races because people want a Redguard that looks like an Altmer.
I gave plenty of examples why your ideas and the OPs ideas are frankly stupid - Your incessant petty desire to have tiny irrelevant stat bonuses above all else has made you blind.
You want more options, ask for more races - There are plenty to *** choose from in the Lore.
You want your Altmer to have Stamina passives because you've seen one use a sword - Go roll in puddles across Black Marsh until you catch the Knahaten Flu.
1. Most of the races are descendnats from gods and mythical beings. The notible exceptions to these are the Betmer who were not at all near the other two.
Going to skip the rest of that section as that is all un-confirmable fluff, and is irrelevent.
"A Khajiti can no more change their racial traits than they can change their fur". Well, for one, the only one saying that their born stamina inclined is you. There's plenty of examples to the contrary.
This quote, though, is all I needed to see.
"I gave plenty of examples why your ideas and the OPs ideas are frankly stupid - Your incessant petty desire to have tiny irrelevant stat bonuses above all else has made you blind."
Translation: "You didn't subscribe to my view, you want something I dont think you should have, I'm hear to beat you to a pulp."
Greedy, resistant to change, unfit to consult. Thanks for playing. The lore does not back you nearly as much as you would like to believe and you continue to cherry pick from it in a fashion that suggests to me you dont understand it in the slightest.Edited by Doctordarkspawn on March 5, 2018 6:39AM0 -
WakeYourGhost✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »WakeYourGhost wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »@WakeYourGhost Nobody wants the 9th era example. Your projecting.
As I've gone through, the games have predicent where people attain a level of mastery their race is not pre-disposed to. Or a level of timidness their race is not pre-disposed to. Also, people cant be born other places? Find they like other cultures better? Half the NPC's in this game are proof of that.
Said it once, will say it again. It's just resistance to change, and given the few of you still arguing are parroting the same thing over and over, you dont have any ironclad proof races simply cannot change, cannot evolve, cannot deviate from the norm. Only sith deal in absolutes.
Projecting what? It was a random comment in a list of Random Things that came to my head first when I thought of "change"
Here are the points you ignored -
Your racial traits don't stop you from being a badass supermage or a sword-lord. They may not line up with it, but it doesn't prevent you from becoming these things.
The races are descendant from Gods and Mythical Beings who passed on their traits to these races - Some of these Same Gods still shape the lives of these races, and keep their souls infused with the nature they favor.
Evolution is a long process that comes over thousands on thousands of years, and still wouldn't be a significant factor here.
A Khajiit can no more change their racial Traits than they can change their fur.
If you were asking for different races with different traits, that is one thing - Like the hinted-at-but-never-talked-about-again variants of Khajiit that could be an alternate race.
There are types of Khajiit that look nearly like Man or Mer - And there are types of Khajiit who look more like Senches.
You want different stats, look no further than THE *** LORE. Find out what alternatives there actually are in said lore instead of just going with the idea that we should have a pick-your-own bonus system or alternatives for specific races because people want a Redguard that looks like an Altmer.
I gave plenty of examples why your ideas and the OPs ideas are frankly stupid - Your incessant petty desire to have tiny irrelevant stat bonuses above all else has made you blind.
You want more options, ask for more races - There are plenty to *** choose from in the Lore.
You want your Altmer to have Stamina passives because you've seen one use a sword - Go roll in puddles across Black Marsh until you catch the Knahaten Flu.
1. Most of the races are descendnats from gods and mythical beings. The notible exceptions to these are the Betmer who were not at all near the other two.
Going to skip the rest of that section as that is all un-confirmable fluff, and is irrelevent.
"A Khajiti can no more change their racial traits than they can change their fur". Well, for one, the only one saying that their born stamina inclined is you. There's plenty of examples to the contrary.
This quote, though, is all I needed to see.
"I gave plenty of examples why your ideas and the OPs ideas are frankly stupid - Your incessant petty desire to have tiny irrelevant stat bonuses above all else has made you blind."
Translation: "You didn't subscribe to my view, you want something I dont think you should have, I'm hear to beat you to a pulp."
Greedy, resistant to change, unfit to consult. Thanks for playing. The lore does not back you nearly as much as you would like to believe and you continue to cherry pick from it in a fashion that suggests to me you dont understand it in the slightest.
We'll have to agree to disagree. We are at an impasse.
I've referenced Lore-facts, I've stayed in line with previous games, and I've even given more in-depth citation.
You've just said "I want it!" over and over again.
It doesn't make a difference if you aren't able to see things from any point of view outside of your own.
Perhaps I'm being "inflexible", but it's only because any argument anyone makes is just rebuked with "you're no fun! I want my way now!".Edited by WakeYourGhost on March 5, 2018 7:05AM1 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WakeYourGhost wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »WakeYourGhost wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »@WakeYourGhost Nobody wants the 9th era example. Your projecting.
As I've gone through, the games have predicent where people attain a level of mastery their race is not pre-disposed to. Or a level of timidness their race is not pre-disposed to. Also, people cant be born other places? Find they like other cultures better? Half the NPC's in this game are proof of that.
Said it once, will say it again. It's just resistance to change, and given the few of you still arguing are parroting the same thing over and over, you dont have any ironclad proof races simply cannot change, cannot evolve, cannot deviate from the norm. Only sith deal in absolutes.
Projecting what? It was a random comment in a list of Random Things that came to my head first when I thought of "change"
Here are the points you ignored -
Your racial traits don't stop you from being a badass supermage or a sword-lord. They may not line up with it, but it doesn't prevent you from becoming these things.
The races are descendant from Gods and Mythical Beings who passed on their traits to these races - Some of these Same Gods still shape the lives of these races, and keep their souls infused with the nature they favor.
Evolution is a long process that comes over thousands on thousands of years, and still wouldn't be a significant factor here.
A Khajiit can no more change their racial Traits than they can change their fur.
If you were asking for different races with different traits, that is one thing - Like the hinted-at-but-never-talked-about-again variants of Khajiit that could be an alternate race.
There are types of Khajiit that look nearly like Man or Mer - And there are types of Khajiit who look more like Senches.
You want different stats, look no further than THE *** LORE. Find out what alternatives there actually are in said lore instead of just going with the idea that we should have a pick-your-own bonus system or alternatives for specific races because people want a Redguard that looks like an Altmer.
I gave plenty of examples why your ideas and the OPs ideas are frankly stupid - Your incessant petty desire to have tiny irrelevant stat bonuses above all else has made you blind.
You want more options, ask for more races - There are plenty to *** choose from in the Lore.
You want your Altmer to have Stamina passives because you've seen one use a sword - Go roll in puddles across Black Marsh until you catch the Knahaten Flu.
1. Most of the races are descendnats from gods and mythical beings. The notible exceptions to these are the Betmer who were not at all near the other two.
Going to skip the rest of that section as that is all un-confirmable fluff, and is irrelevent.
"A Khajiti can no more change their racial traits than they can change their fur". Well, for one, the only one saying that their born stamina inclined is you. There's plenty of examples to the contrary.
This quote, though, is all I needed to see.
"I gave plenty of examples why your ideas and the OPs ideas are frankly stupid - Your incessant petty desire to have tiny irrelevant stat bonuses above all else has made you blind."
Translation: "You didn't subscribe to my view, you want something I dont think you should have, I'm hear to beat you to a pulp."
Greedy, resistant to change, unfit to consult. Thanks for playing. The lore does not back you nearly as much as you would like to believe and you continue to cherry pick from it in a fashion that suggests to me you dont understand it in the slightest.
We'll have to agree to disagree. We are at an impasse.
I've referenced Lore-facts, I've stayed in line with previous games, and I've even given more in-depth citation.
You've just said "I want it!" over and over again.
It doesn't make a difference if you aren't able to see things from any point of view outside of your own.
Perhaps I'm being "inflexible", but it's only because any argument anyone makes is just rebuked with "you're no fun! I want my way now!".
Agree to disagree is fine. But dont lie about my position again. I've pointed out the various inconsistancies in your little facts and the fact the games have a unreliable narrator.
This is why your unfit to consult, you'll lie about anyone until you get what you want. Agree to disagree, fine. But stop with the lies.0 -
WakeYourGhost✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »WakeYourGhost wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »WakeYourGhost wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »@WakeYourGhost Nobody wants the 9th era example. Your projecting.
As I've gone through, the games have predicent where people attain a level of mastery their race is not pre-disposed to. Or a level of timidness their race is not pre-disposed to. Also, people cant be born other places? Find they like other cultures better? Half the NPC's in this game are proof of that.
Said it once, will say it again. It's just resistance to change, and given the few of you still arguing are parroting the same thing over and over, you dont have any ironclad proof races simply cannot change, cannot evolve, cannot deviate from the norm. Only sith deal in absolutes.
Projecting what? It was a random comment in a list of Random Things that came to my head first when I thought of "change"
Here are the points you ignored -
Your racial traits don't stop you from being a badass supermage or a sword-lord. They may not line up with it, but it doesn't prevent you from becoming these things.
The races are descendant from Gods and Mythical Beings who passed on their traits to these races - Some of these Same Gods still shape the lives of these races, and keep their souls infused with the nature they favor.
Evolution is a long process that comes over thousands on thousands of years, and still wouldn't be a significant factor here.
A Khajiit can no more change their racial Traits than they can change their fur.
If you were asking for different races with different traits, that is one thing - Like the hinted-at-but-never-talked-about-again variants of Khajiit that could be an alternate race.
There are types of Khajiit that look nearly like Man or Mer - And there are types of Khajiit who look more like Senches.
You want different stats, look no further than THE *** LORE. Find out what alternatives there actually are in said lore instead of just going with the idea that we should have a pick-your-own bonus system or alternatives for specific races because people want a Redguard that looks like an Altmer.
I gave plenty of examples why your ideas and the OPs ideas are frankly stupid - Your incessant petty desire to have tiny irrelevant stat bonuses above all else has made you blind.
You want more options, ask for more races - There are plenty to *** choose from in the Lore.
You want your Altmer to have Stamina passives because you've seen one use a sword - Go roll in puddles across Black Marsh until you catch the Knahaten Flu.
1. Most of the races are descendnats from gods and mythical beings. The notible exceptions to these are the Betmer who were not at all near the other two.
Going to skip the rest of that section as that is all un-confirmable fluff, and is irrelevent.
"A Khajiti can no more change their racial traits than they can change their fur". Well, for one, the only one saying that their born stamina inclined is you. There's plenty of examples to the contrary.
This quote, though, is all I needed to see.
"I gave plenty of examples why your ideas and the OPs ideas are frankly stupid - Your incessant petty desire to have tiny irrelevant stat bonuses above all else has made you blind."
Translation: "You didn't subscribe to my view, you want something I dont think you should have, I'm hear to beat you to a pulp."
Greedy, resistant to change, unfit to consult. Thanks for playing. The lore does not back you nearly as much as you would like to believe and you continue to cherry pick from it in a fashion that suggests to me you dont understand it in the slightest.
We'll have to agree to disagree. We are at an impasse.
I've referenced Lore-facts, I've stayed in line with previous games, and I've even given more in-depth citation.
You've just said "I want it!" over and over again.
It doesn't make a difference if you aren't able to see things from any point of view outside of your own.
Perhaps I'm being "inflexible", but it's only because any argument anyone makes is just rebuked with "you're no fun! I want my way now!".
Agree to disagree is fine. But dont lie about my position again. I've pointed out the various inconsistancies in your little facts and the fact the games have a unreliable narrator.
This is why your unfit to consult, you'll lie about anyone until you get what you want. Agree to disagree, fine. But stop with the lies.
I haven't seen any "inconsistencies" you've pointed out, and I havn't seen any "unreliable narrator" established.
Your position is a desire for statistical advantages outside of the normal and well-established racial system because you want your Waifu (Or Husbandu) to be a little stronger at your OTP of Race, Class, and Attributes.
I have nothing to gain here, so I won't "get what I want", and I have little to no motive to lie.
We know they won't change the Racial passives - It's been brought up a thousand times before.
My entire complain is pretending that these changes somehow fit with the Lore and Story in any meaningful fashion.
Don't twist me in to some manipulative dark villain trying to pull the wool over the eyes of the masses just so you can feel your argument has a stronger base through the glory of defiant opposition to a force of oppression.
Calling something a Lie doesn't actually make it a Lie.
Calling someone a Liar doesn't actually make them a Liar.0 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WakeYourGhost wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »WakeYourGhost wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »WakeYourGhost wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »@WakeYourGhost Nobody wants the 9th era example. Your projecting.
As I've gone through, the games have predicent where people attain a level of mastery their race is not pre-disposed to. Or a level of timidness their race is not pre-disposed to. Also, people cant be born other places? Find they like other cultures better? Half the NPC's in this game are proof of that.
Said it once, will say it again. It's just resistance to change, and given the few of you still arguing are parroting the same thing over and over, you dont have any ironclad proof races simply cannot change, cannot evolve, cannot deviate from the norm. Only sith deal in absolutes.
Projecting what? It was a random comment in a list of Random Things that came to my head first when I thought of "change"
Here are the points you ignored -
Your racial traits don't stop you from being a badass supermage or a sword-lord. They may not line up with it, but it doesn't prevent you from becoming these things.
The races are descendant from Gods and Mythical Beings who passed on their traits to these races - Some of these Same Gods still shape the lives of these races, and keep their souls infused with the nature they favor.
Evolution is a long process that comes over thousands on thousands of years, and still wouldn't be a significant factor here.
A Khajiit can no more change their racial Traits than they can change their fur.
If you were asking for different races with different traits, that is one thing - Like the hinted-at-but-never-talked-about-again variants of Khajiit that could be an alternate race.
There are types of Khajiit that look nearly like Man or Mer - And there are types of Khajiit who look more like Senches.
You want different stats, look no further than THE *** LORE. Find out what alternatives there actually are in said lore instead of just going with the idea that we should have a pick-your-own bonus system or alternatives for specific races because people want a Redguard that looks like an Altmer.
I gave plenty of examples why your ideas and the OPs ideas are frankly stupid - Your incessant petty desire to have tiny irrelevant stat bonuses above all else has made you blind.
You want more options, ask for more races - There are plenty to *** choose from in the Lore.
You want your Altmer to have Stamina passives because you've seen one use a sword - Go roll in puddles across Black Marsh until you catch the Knahaten Flu.
1. Most of the races are descendnats from gods and mythical beings. The notible exceptions to these are the Betmer who were not at all near the other two.
Going to skip the rest of that section as that is all un-confirmable fluff, and is irrelevent.
"A Khajiti can no more change their racial traits than they can change their fur". Well, for one, the only one saying that their born stamina inclined is you. There's plenty of examples to the contrary.
This quote, though, is all I needed to see.
"I gave plenty of examples why your ideas and the OPs ideas are frankly stupid - Your incessant petty desire to have tiny irrelevant stat bonuses above all else has made you blind."
Translation: "You didn't subscribe to my view, you want something I dont think you should have, I'm hear to beat you to a pulp."
Greedy, resistant to change, unfit to consult. Thanks for playing. The lore does not back you nearly as much as you would like to believe and you continue to cherry pick from it in a fashion that suggests to me you dont understand it in the slightest.
We'll have to agree to disagree. We are at an impasse.
I've referenced Lore-facts, I've stayed in line with previous games, and I've even given more in-depth citation.
You've just said "I want it!" over and over again.
It doesn't make a difference if you aren't able to see things from any point of view outside of your own.
Perhaps I'm being "inflexible", but it's only because any argument anyone makes is just rebuked with "you're no fun! I want my way now!".
Agree to disagree is fine. But dont lie about my position again. I've pointed out the various inconsistancies in your little facts and the fact the games have a unreliable narrator.
This is why your unfit to consult, you'll lie about anyone until you get what you want. Agree to disagree, fine. But stop with the lies.
I haven't seen any "inconsistencies" you've pointed out, and I havn't seen any "unreliable narrator" established.
Your position is a desire for statistical advantages outside of the normal and well-established racial system because you want your Waifu (Or Husbandu) to be a little stronger at your OTP of Race, Class, and Attributes.
I have nothing to gain here, so I won't "get what I want", and I have little to no motive to lie.
We know they won't change the Racial passives - It's been brought up a thousand times before.
My entire complain is pretending that these changes somehow fit with the Lore and Story in any meaningful fashion.
Don't twist me in to some manipulative dark villain trying to pull the wool over the eyes of the masses just so you can feel your argument has a stronger base through the glory of defiant opposition to a force of oppression.
Calling something a Lie doesn't actually make it a Lie.
Calling someone a Liar doesn't actually make them a Liar.
Except your acting manipulative.
1. I've never said 'let me have my way'.
2. I've never said 'your no fun'.
I've argued that races simply produce people who dont conform to the steriotype once and a while and you've simply not accepted that. That's fine. We can agree to disagree. Then you throw around aspersions about "Waifu" whatever the hell that is and I get very angry because it's clear your trying to put together a narrative. Your trying to make me out to be something I'm not and I'll call it what it is: Slander.
I've tried to argue the point as best I'm able but what I wont tollerate is misrepresenation and lies. What you want is for people to shut up and stop discussing an issue you think isn't a problem, and you'll use any means to do that.
Own up to the mistake, take the hit, and stop. Take responsibility for your actions.Edited by Doctordarkspawn on March 5, 2018 7:27AM0 -
WakeYourGhost✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »WakeYourGhost wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »WakeYourGhost wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »WakeYourGhost wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »@WakeYourGhost Nobody wants the 9th era example. Your projecting.
As I've gone through, the games have predicent where people attain a level of mastery their race is not pre-disposed to. Or a level of timidness their race is not pre-disposed to. Also, people cant be born other places? Find they like other cultures better? Half the NPC's in this game are proof of that.
Said it once, will say it again. It's just resistance to change, and given the few of you still arguing are parroting the same thing over and over, you dont have any ironclad proof races simply cannot change, cannot evolve, cannot deviate from the norm. Only sith deal in absolutes.
Projecting what? It was a random comment in a list of Random Things that came to my head first when I thought of "change"
Here are the points you ignored -
Your racial traits don't stop you from being a badass supermage or a sword-lord. They may not line up with it, but it doesn't prevent you from becoming these things.
The races are descendant from Gods and Mythical Beings who passed on their traits to these races - Some of these Same Gods still shape the lives of these races, and keep their souls infused with the nature they favor.
Evolution is a long process that comes over thousands on thousands of years, and still wouldn't be a significant factor here.
A Khajiit can no more change their racial Traits than they can change their fur.
If you were asking for different races with different traits, that is one thing - Like the hinted-at-but-never-talked-about-again variants of Khajiit that could be an alternate race.
There are types of Khajiit that look nearly like Man or Mer - And there are types of Khajiit who look more like Senches.
You want different stats, look no further than THE *** LORE. Find out what alternatives there actually are in said lore instead of just going with the idea that we should have a pick-your-own bonus system or alternatives for specific races because people want a Redguard that looks like an Altmer.
I gave plenty of examples why your ideas and the OPs ideas are frankly stupid - Your incessant petty desire to have tiny irrelevant stat bonuses above all else has made you blind.
You want more options, ask for more races - There are plenty to *** choose from in the Lore.
You want your Altmer to have Stamina passives because you've seen one use a sword - Go roll in puddles across Black Marsh until you catch the Knahaten Flu.
1. Most of the races are descendnats from gods and mythical beings. The notible exceptions to these are the Betmer who were not at all near the other two.
Going to skip the rest of that section as that is all un-confirmable fluff, and is irrelevent.
"A Khajiti can no more change their racial traits than they can change their fur". Well, for one, the only one saying that their born stamina inclined is you. There's plenty of examples to the contrary.
This quote, though, is all I needed to see.
"I gave plenty of examples why your ideas and the OPs ideas are frankly stupid - Your incessant petty desire to have tiny irrelevant stat bonuses above all else has made you blind."
Translation: "You didn't subscribe to my view, you want something I dont think you should have, I'm hear to beat you to a pulp."
Greedy, resistant to change, unfit to consult. Thanks for playing. The lore does not back you nearly as much as you would like to believe and you continue to cherry pick from it in a fashion that suggests to me you dont understand it in the slightest.
We'll have to agree to disagree. We are at an impasse.
I've referenced Lore-facts, I've stayed in line with previous games, and I've even given more in-depth citation.
You've just said "I want it!" over and over again.
It doesn't make a difference if you aren't able to see things from any point of view outside of your own.
Perhaps I'm being "inflexible", but it's only because any argument anyone makes is just rebuked with "you're no fun! I want my way now!".
Agree to disagree is fine. But dont lie about my position again. I've pointed out the various inconsistancies in your little facts and the fact the games have a unreliable narrator.
This is why your unfit to consult, you'll lie about anyone until you get what you want. Agree to disagree, fine. But stop with the lies.
I haven't seen any "inconsistencies" you've pointed out, and I havn't seen any "unreliable narrator" established.
Your position is a desire for statistical advantages outside of the normal and well-established racial system because you want your Waifu (Or Husbandu) to be a little stronger at your OTP of Race, Class, and Attributes.
I have nothing to gain here, so I won't "get what I want", and I have little to no motive to lie.
We know they won't change the Racial passives - It's been brought up a thousand times before.
My entire complain is pretending that these changes somehow fit with the Lore and Story in any meaningful fashion.
Don't twist me in to some manipulative dark villain trying to pull the wool over the eyes of the masses just so you can feel your argument has a stronger base through the glory of defiant opposition to a force of oppression.
Calling something a Lie doesn't actually make it a Lie.
Calling someone a Liar doesn't actually make them a Liar.
Except your acting manipulative.
1. I've never said 'let me have my way'.
2. I've never said 'your no fun'.
I've argued that races simply produce people who dont conform to the steriotype once and a while and you've simply not accepted that. That's fine. We can agree to disagree. Then you throw around aspersions about "Waifu" whatever the hell that is and I get very angry because it's clear your trying to put together a narrative. Your trying to make me out to be something I'm not and I'll call it what it is: Slander.
I've tried to argue the point as best I'm able but what I wont tollerate is misrepresenation and lies. What you want is for people to shut up and stop discussing an issue you think isn't a problem, and you'll use any means to do that.
Own up to the mistake, take the hit, and stop. Take responsibility for your actions.
Hyperbole - the things I put in "quotes" tend to be Hyperbole.
My argument to that has been that someone not conforming to that stereotype wouldn't have different passives - They would just overcome their racial predispositions and become something different.
Waifu - Perhaps that term is used more commonly in other communities to refer to a well constructed female (husbandu - Male) character. It's a comical term to lighten tension, not an insult.
All of that out of the way - I don't care if people talk about it or shut up. I want them to actually consider the people who aren't power-gamers who want to keep the integrity of the Lore, precedents, and story.
I also want people to stop calling their personal Build Support Passives "Lore Friendly" and stop trying to hammer that point home with meaningless drivel about how some Altmer use Swords.
Fact is - I could make (And have made) a Nord Mage that can do just as fine as an Altmer Mage. My DPS is a few points lower, my resistance if a few points higher. My sustain isn't perfect, but it isn't terrible, either.0 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WakeYourGhost wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »WakeYourGhost wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »WakeYourGhost wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »WakeYourGhost wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »@WakeYourGhost Nobody wants the 9th era example. Your projecting.
As I've gone through, the games have predicent where people attain a level of mastery their race is not pre-disposed to. Or a level of timidness their race is not pre-disposed to. Also, people cant be born other places? Find they like other cultures better? Half the NPC's in this game are proof of that.
Said it once, will say it again. It's just resistance to change, and given the few of you still arguing are parroting the same thing over and over, you dont have any ironclad proof races simply cannot change, cannot evolve, cannot deviate from the norm. Only sith deal in absolutes.
Projecting what? It was a random comment in a list of Random Things that came to my head first when I thought of "change"
Here are the points you ignored -
Your racial traits don't stop you from being a badass supermage or a sword-lord. They may not line up with it, but it doesn't prevent you from becoming these things.
The races are descendant from Gods and Mythical Beings who passed on their traits to these races - Some of these Same Gods still shape the lives of these races, and keep their souls infused with the nature they favor.
Evolution is a long process that comes over thousands on thousands of years, and still wouldn't be a significant factor here.
A Khajiit can no more change their racial Traits than they can change their fur.
If you were asking for different races with different traits, that is one thing - Like the hinted-at-but-never-talked-about-again variants of Khajiit that could be an alternate race.
There are types of Khajiit that look nearly like Man or Mer - And there are types of Khajiit who look more like Senches.
You want different stats, look no further than THE *** LORE. Find out what alternatives there actually are in said lore instead of just going with the idea that we should have a pick-your-own bonus system or alternatives for specific races because people want a Redguard that looks like an Altmer.
I gave plenty of examples why your ideas and the OPs ideas are frankly stupid - Your incessant petty desire to have tiny irrelevant stat bonuses above all else has made you blind.
You want more options, ask for more races - There are plenty to *** choose from in the Lore.
You want your Altmer to have Stamina passives because you've seen one use a sword - Go roll in puddles across Black Marsh until you catch the Knahaten Flu.
1. Most of the races are descendnats from gods and mythical beings. The notible exceptions to these are the Betmer who were not at all near the other two.
Going to skip the rest of that section as that is all un-confirmable fluff, and is irrelevent.
"A Khajiti can no more change their racial traits than they can change their fur". Well, for one, the only one saying that their born stamina inclined is you. There's plenty of examples to the contrary.
This quote, though, is all I needed to see.
"I gave plenty of examples why your ideas and the OPs ideas are frankly stupid - Your incessant petty desire to have tiny irrelevant stat bonuses above all else has made you blind."
Translation: "You didn't subscribe to my view, you want something I dont think you should have, I'm hear to beat you to a pulp."
Greedy, resistant to change, unfit to consult. Thanks for playing. The lore does not back you nearly as much as you would like to believe and you continue to cherry pick from it in a fashion that suggests to me you dont understand it in the slightest.
We'll have to agree to disagree. We are at an impasse.
I've referenced Lore-facts, I've stayed in line with previous games, and I've even given more in-depth citation.
You've just said "I want it!" over and over again.
It doesn't make a difference if you aren't able to see things from any point of view outside of your own.
Perhaps I'm being "inflexible", but it's only because any argument anyone makes is just rebuked with "you're no fun! I want my way now!".
Agree to disagree is fine. But dont lie about my position again. I've pointed out the various inconsistancies in your little facts and the fact the games have a unreliable narrator.
This is why your unfit to consult, you'll lie about anyone until you get what you want. Agree to disagree, fine. But stop with the lies.
I haven't seen any "inconsistencies" you've pointed out, and I havn't seen any "unreliable narrator" established.
Your position is a desire for statistical advantages outside of the normal and well-established racial system because you want your Waifu (Or Husbandu) to be a little stronger at your OTP of Race, Class, and Attributes.
I have nothing to gain here, so I won't "get what I want", and I have little to no motive to lie.
We know they won't change the Racial passives - It's been brought up a thousand times before.
My entire complain is pretending that these changes somehow fit with the Lore and Story in any meaningful fashion.
Don't twist me in to some manipulative dark villain trying to pull the wool over the eyes of the masses just so you can feel your argument has a stronger base through the glory of defiant opposition to a force of oppression.
Calling something a Lie doesn't actually make it a Lie.
Calling someone a Liar doesn't actually make them a Liar.
Except your acting manipulative.
1. I've never said 'let me have my way'.
2. I've never said 'your no fun'.
I've argued that races simply produce people who dont conform to the steriotype once and a while and you've simply not accepted that. That's fine. We can agree to disagree. Then you throw around aspersions about "Waifu" whatever the hell that is and I get very angry because it's clear your trying to put together a narrative. Your trying to make me out to be something I'm not and I'll call it what it is: Slander.
I've tried to argue the point as best I'm able but what I wont tollerate is misrepresenation and lies. What you want is for people to shut up and stop discussing an issue you think isn't a problem, and you'll use any means to do that.
Own up to the mistake, take the hit, and stop. Take responsibility for your actions.
Hyperbole - the things I put in "quotes" tend to be Hyperbole.
My argument to that has been that someone not conforming to that stereotype wouldn't have different passives - They would just overcome their racial predispositions and become something different.
Waifu - Perhaps that term is used more commonly in other communities to refer to a well constructed female (husbandu - Male) character. It's a comical term to lighten tension, not an insult.
All of that out of the way - I don't care if people talk about it or shut up. I want them to actually consider the people who aren't power-gamers who want to keep the integrity of the Lore, precedents, and story.
I also want people to stop calling their personal Build Support Passives "Lore Friendly" and stop trying to hammer that point home with meaningless drivel about how some Altmer use Swords.
Fact is - I could make (And have made) a Nord Mage that can do just as fine as an Altmer Mage. My DPS is a few points lower, my resistance if a few points higher. My sustain isn't perfect, but it isn't terrible, either.
I'm a freaking rollplayer playing an non optimal race for my build, I couldn't give a flying buggery about build optimization. I'm arguing it from a lore perspective and I've been doing so since I entered the thread. Agree to disagree, fine. But again with the misrepresentation and the -narrative- man. Is it compulsory? Can you not stop yourself?0 -
Cheveyo✭✭✭✭IMO, the best bet is to keep the first and last racials each race has. Buff the ones that aren't as good. This keeps the races feeling different.
Then, simply move the regen, max stat, cost reduction, and healing done/received passives to the WORLD section. Create a new tree called "Conditioning". Add all those removed passives to that tree. Or maybe create two trees: "Physical Prowess" for the stam passives, and "Mental Prowess" for the magicka ones. Have those trees level the same way racials do.0 -
WakeYourGhost✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »WakeYourGhost wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »WakeYourGhost wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »WakeYourGhost wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »WakeYourGhost wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »@WakeYourGhost Nobody wants the 9th era example. Your projecting.
As I've gone through, the games have predicent where people attain a level of mastery their race is not pre-disposed to. Or a level of timidness their race is not pre-disposed to. Also, people cant be born other places? Find they like other cultures better? Half the NPC's in this game are proof of that.
Said it once, will say it again. It's just resistance to change, and given the few of you still arguing are parroting the same thing over and over, you dont have any ironclad proof races simply cannot change, cannot evolve, cannot deviate from the norm. Only sith deal in absolutes.
Projecting what? It was a random comment in a list of Random Things that came to my head first when I thought of "change"
Here are the points you ignored -
Your racial traits don't stop you from being a badass supermage or a sword-lord. They may not line up with it, but it doesn't prevent you from becoming these things.
The races are descendant from Gods and Mythical Beings who passed on their traits to these races - Some of these Same Gods still shape the lives of these races, and keep their souls infused with the nature they favor.
Evolution is a long process that comes over thousands on thousands of years, and still wouldn't be a significant factor here.
A Khajiit can no more change their racial Traits than they can change their fur.
If you were asking for different races with different traits, that is one thing - Like the hinted-at-but-never-talked-about-again variants of Khajiit that could be an alternate race.
There are types of Khajiit that look nearly like Man or Mer - And there are types of Khajiit who look more like Senches.
You want different stats, look no further than THE *** LORE. Find out what alternatives there actually are in said lore instead of just going with the idea that we should have a pick-your-own bonus system or alternatives for specific races because people want a Redguard that looks like an Altmer.
I gave plenty of examples why your ideas and the OPs ideas are frankly stupid - Your incessant petty desire to have tiny irrelevant stat bonuses above all else has made you blind.
You want more options, ask for more races - There are plenty to *** choose from in the Lore.
You want your Altmer to have Stamina passives because you've seen one use a sword - Go roll in puddles across Black Marsh until you catch the Knahaten Flu.
1. Most of the races are descendnats from gods and mythical beings. The notible exceptions to these are the Betmer who were not at all near the other two.
Going to skip the rest of that section as that is all un-confirmable fluff, and is irrelevent.
"A Khajiti can no more change their racial traits than they can change their fur". Well, for one, the only one saying that their born stamina inclined is you. There's plenty of examples to the contrary.
This quote, though, is all I needed to see.
"I gave plenty of examples why your ideas and the OPs ideas are frankly stupid - Your incessant petty desire to have tiny irrelevant stat bonuses above all else has made you blind."
Translation: "You didn't subscribe to my view, you want something I dont think you should have, I'm hear to beat you to a pulp."
Greedy, resistant to change, unfit to consult. Thanks for playing. The lore does not back you nearly as much as you would like to believe and you continue to cherry pick from it in a fashion that suggests to me you dont understand it in the slightest.
We'll have to agree to disagree. We are at an impasse.
I've referenced Lore-facts, I've stayed in line with previous games, and I've even given more in-depth citation.
You've just said "I want it!" over and over again.
It doesn't make a difference if you aren't able to see things from any point of view outside of your own.
Perhaps I'm being "inflexible", but it's only because any argument anyone makes is just rebuked with "you're no fun! I want my way now!".
Agree to disagree is fine. But dont lie about my position again. I've pointed out the various inconsistancies in your little facts and the fact the games have a unreliable narrator.
This is why your unfit to consult, you'll lie about anyone until you get what you want. Agree to disagree, fine. But stop with the lies.
I haven't seen any "inconsistencies" you've pointed out, and I havn't seen any "unreliable narrator" established.
Your position is a desire for statistical advantages outside of the normal and well-established racial system because you want your Waifu (Or Husbandu) to be a little stronger at your OTP of Race, Class, and Attributes.
I have nothing to gain here, so I won't "get what I want", and I have little to no motive to lie.
We know they won't change the Racial passives - It's been brought up a thousand times before.
My entire complain is pretending that these changes somehow fit with the Lore and Story in any meaningful fashion.
Don't twist me in to some manipulative dark villain trying to pull the wool over the eyes of the masses just so you can feel your argument has a stronger base through the glory of defiant opposition to a force of oppression.
Calling something a Lie doesn't actually make it a Lie.
Calling someone a Liar doesn't actually make them a Liar.
Except your acting manipulative.
1. I've never said 'let me have my way'.
2. I've never said 'your no fun'.
I've argued that races simply produce people who dont conform to the steriotype once and a while and you've simply not accepted that. That's fine. We can agree to disagree. Then you throw around aspersions about "Waifu" whatever the hell that is and I get very angry because it's clear your trying to put together a narrative. Your trying to make me out to be something I'm not and I'll call it what it is: Slander.
I've tried to argue the point as best I'm able but what I wont tollerate is misrepresenation and lies. What you want is for people to shut up and stop discussing an issue you think isn't a problem, and you'll use any means to do that.
Own up to the mistake, take the hit, and stop. Take responsibility for your actions.
Hyperbole - the things I put in "quotes" tend to be Hyperbole.
My argument to that has been that someone not conforming to that stereotype wouldn't have different passives - They would just overcome their racial predispositions and become something different.
Waifu - Perhaps that term is used more commonly in other communities to refer to a well constructed female (husbandu - Male) character. It's a comical term to lighten tension, not an insult.
All of that out of the way - I don't care if people talk about it or shut up. I want them to actually consider the people who aren't power-gamers who want to keep the integrity of the Lore, precedents, and story.
I also want people to stop calling their personal Build Support Passives "Lore Friendly" and stop trying to hammer that point home with meaningless drivel about how some Altmer use Swords.
Fact is - I could make (And have made) a Nord Mage that can do just as fine as an Altmer Mage. My DPS is a few points lower, my resistance if a few points higher. My sustain isn't perfect, but it isn't terrible, either.
I'm a freaking rollplayer playing an non optimal race for my build, I couldn't give a flying buggery about build optimization. I'm arguing it from a lore perspective and I've been doing so since I entered the thread. Agree to disagree, fine. But again with the misrepresentation and the -narrative- man. Is it compulsory? Can you not stop yourself?
...Okay, I've ignored the spelling thus far because I'm not bothered by spelling or grammar issues - Not everyone has english for a first language, some people type fast and don't double check, some people are on phones, some people just aren't great at it...
But this - Rollplayer... I'm imagining someone going in to a dungeon and rolling past every single enemy, every boss, and just going for Distance and Speed - Nothing matters past the Roll! (Maybe with Morihaus to go bowling?)
Okay, I've made an assumption about your reasonings. I admit it. That is an oversight - I simply couldn't see any reason past Min-Maxing and stat-jacking to do this stuff.
That being said - You've argued from a "Lore" perspective while claiming "Lore" is just code for "can't Change". Your own arguments have brought about my assumptions.
If you want to argue from a Lore Perspective - Keep in mind, even the most die-hard blade master in the Elder Scrolls can cast a few basic life-saving spells. If that Blade-master was an Altmer, they would still be roughly as good as a Redguard, yet they would also be a bit better at supporting magicka.
If a Nord becomes the most powerful mage in the world, I'm arguing it isn't because they were born with different Traits from other Nords. It's because they gained that power over a life time. They still start as a Nord, but they end their lives going beyond their "humble" origin. Their born-in racial traits are the same - Their skills and talents they learned over their life are the only thing different.0 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WakeYourGhost wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »WakeYourGhost wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »WakeYourGhost wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »WakeYourGhost wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »WakeYourGhost wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »@WakeYourGhost Nobody wants the 9th era example. Your projecting.
As I've gone through, the games have predicent where people attain a level of mastery their race is not pre-disposed to. Or a level of timidness their race is not pre-disposed to. Also, people cant be born other places? Find they like other cultures better? Half the NPC's in this game are proof of that.
Said it once, will say it again. It's just resistance to change, and given the few of you still arguing are parroting the same thing over and over, you dont have any ironclad proof races simply cannot change, cannot evolve, cannot deviate from the norm. Only sith deal in absolutes.
Projecting what? It was a random comment in a list of Random Things that came to my head first when I thought of "change"
Here are the points you ignored -
Your racial traits don't stop you from being a badass supermage or a sword-lord. They may not line up with it, but it doesn't prevent you from becoming these things.
The races are descendant from Gods and Mythical Beings who passed on their traits to these races - Some of these Same Gods still shape the lives of these races, and keep their souls infused with the nature they favor.
Evolution is a long process that comes over thousands on thousands of years, and still wouldn't be a significant factor here.
A Khajiit can no more change their racial Traits than they can change their fur.
If you were asking for different races with different traits, that is one thing - Like the hinted-at-but-never-talked-about-again variants of Khajiit that could be an alternate race.
There are types of Khajiit that look nearly like Man or Mer - And there are types of Khajiit who look more like Senches.
You want different stats, look no further than THE *** LORE. Find out what alternatives there actually are in said lore instead of just going with the idea that we should have a pick-your-own bonus system or alternatives for specific races because people want a Redguard that looks like an Altmer.
I gave plenty of examples why your ideas and the OPs ideas are frankly stupid - Your incessant petty desire to have tiny irrelevant stat bonuses above all else has made you blind.
You want more options, ask for more races - There are plenty to *** choose from in the Lore.
You want your Altmer to have Stamina passives because you've seen one use a sword - Go roll in puddles across Black Marsh until you catch the Knahaten Flu.
1. Most of the races are descendnats from gods and mythical beings. The notible exceptions to these are the Betmer who were not at all near the other two.
Going to skip the rest of that section as that is all un-confirmable fluff, and is irrelevent.
"A Khajiti can no more change their racial traits than they can change their fur". Well, for one, the only one saying that their born stamina inclined is you. There's plenty of examples to the contrary.
This quote, though, is all I needed to see.
"I gave plenty of examples why your ideas and the OPs ideas are frankly stupid - Your incessant petty desire to have tiny irrelevant stat bonuses above all else has made you blind."
Translation: "You didn't subscribe to my view, you want something I dont think you should have, I'm hear to beat you to a pulp."
Greedy, resistant to change, unfit to consult. Thanks for playing. The lore does not back you nearly as much as you would like to believe and you continue to cherry pick from it in a fashion that suggests to me you dont understand it in the slightest.
We'll have to agree to disagree. We are at an impasse.
I've referenced Lore-facts, I've stayed in line with previous games, and I've even given more in-depth citation.
You've just said "I want it!" over and over again.
It doesn't make a difference if you aren't able to see things from any point of view outside of your own.
Perhaps I'm being "inflexible", but it's only because any argument anyone makes is just rebuked with "you're no fun! I want my way now!".
Agree to disagree is fine. But dont lie about my position again. I've pointed out the various inconsistancies in your little facts and the fact the games have a unreliable narrator.
This is why your unfit to consult, you'll lie about anyone until you get what you want. Agree to disagree, fine. But stop with the lies.
I haven't seen any "inconsistencies" you've pointed out, and I havn't seen any "unreliable narrator" established.
Your position is a desire for statistical advantages outside of the normal and well-established racial system because you want your Waifu (Or Husbandu) to be a little stronger at your OTP of Race, Class, and Attributes.
I have nothing to gain here, so I won't "get what I want", and I have little to no motive to lie.
We know they won't change the Racial passives - It's been brought up a thousand times before.
My entire complain is pretending that these changes somehow fit with the Lore and Story in any meaningful fashion.
Don't twist me in to some manipulative dark villain trying to pull the wool over the eyes of the masses just so you can feel your argument has a stronger base through the glory of defiant opposition to a force of oppression.
Calling something a Lie doesn't actually make it a Lie.
Calling someone a Liar doesn't actually make them a Liar.
Except your acting manipulative.
1. I've never said 'let me have my way'.
2. I've never said 'your no fun'.
I've argued that races simply produce people who dont conform to the steriotype once and a while and you've simply not accepted that. That's fine. We can agree to disagree. Then you throw around aspersions about "Waifu" whatever the hell that is and I get very angry because it's clear your trying to put together a narrative. Your trying to make me out to be something I'm not and I'll call it what it is: Slander.
I've tried to argue the point as best I'm able but what I wont tollerate is misrepresenation and lies. What you want is for people to shut up and stop discussing an issue you think isn't a problem, and you'll use any means to do that.
Own up to the mistake, take the hit, and stop. Take responsibility for your actions.
Hyperbole - the things I put in "quotes" tend to be Hyperbole.
My argument to that has been that someone not conforming to that stereotype wouldn't have different passives - They would just overcome their racial predispositions and become something different.
Waifu - Perhaps that term is used more commonly in other communities to refer to a well constructed female (husbandu - Male) character. It's a comical term to lighten tension, not an insult.
All of that out of the way - I don't care if people talk about it or shut up. I want them to actually consider the people who aren't power-gamers who want to keep the integrity of the Lore, precedents, and story.
I also want people to stop calling their personal Build Support Passives "Lore Friendly" and stop trying to hammer that point home with meaningless drivel about how some Altmer use Swords.
Fact is - I could make (And have made) a Nord Mage that can do just as fine as an Altmer Mage. My DPS is a few points lower, my resistance if a few points higher. My sustain isn't perfect, but it isn't terrible, either.
I'm a freaking rollplayer playing an non optimal race for my build, I couldn't give a flying buggery about build optimization. I'm arguing it from a lore perspective and I've been doing so since I entered the thread. Agree to disagree, fine. But again with the misrepresentation and the -narrative- man. Is it compulsory? Can you not stop yourself?
...Okay, I've ignored the spelling thus far because I'm not bothered by spelling or grammar issues - Not everyone has english for a first language, some people type fast and don't double check, some people are on phones, some people just aren't great at it...
But this - Rollplayer... I'm imagining someone going in to a dungeon and rolling past every single enemy, every boss, and just going for Distance and Speed - Nothing matters past the Roll! (Maybe with Morihaus to go bowling?)
Okay, I've made an assumption about your reasonings. I admit it. That is an oversight - I simply couldn't see any reason past Min-Maxing and stat-jacking to do this stuff.
That being said - You've argued from a "Lore" perspective while claiming "Lore" is just code for "can't Change". Your own arguments have brought about my assumptions.
If you want to argue from a Lore Perspective - Keep in mind, even the most die-hard blade master in the Elder Scrolls can cast a few basic life-saving spells. If that Blade-master was an Altmer, they would still be roughly as good as a Redguard, yet they would also be a bit better at supporting magicka.
If a Nord becomes the most powerful mage in the world, I'm arguing it isn't because they were born with different Traits from other Nords. It's because they gained that power over a life time. They still start as a Nord, but they end their lives going beyond their "humble" origin. Their born-in racial traits are the same - Their skills and talents they learned over their life are the only thing different.
And now your going on about my spelling. You just cant stop yourself, can you?
You keep twisting it to where I apparently made you assume all this. Vivec would be proud man.
I'm done trying to argue with you, you are genuinely displaying some psychocomatic stuff. It colors everything you try to argue and there can be no impartial discussion with these tendancies identified.Edited by Doctordarkspawn on March 5, 2018 8:09AM0
