RACE PASSIVES - A comprehensive and well researched suggestion

WakeYourGhost

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

WakeYourGhost wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Dragath wrote: »

No.
If you are willing to break the lore, then the only way to create a System where you can choose your Race without any min-maxing in mind, is a System where Passives are not bound to Races.

Nothing I've seen here is breaking lore.

Some people break from their racial molds, not everyone is the same. And the game has many questlines proving that.

Khajiit have mages. Orcs have mages. Redguards, do, on occasion, produce mages, and visa versa.

That doesn't mean those [insert race here] mages have "different passives"
They have the same racial strengths and weaknesses - The same base traits.
They just follow a different path.
It's not like it's impossible to be a Mage with a bonus to Stamina Regen.

They dont get it-what-because of some arbitrary decision?

In previous elder scrolls games, the passives are as neutral as possible in order to limit the ammount of damage chosing a non optimal race was going to whatever build you'd go with.

I see no difference between that, and this. The only thing I see, is the same 'You cant have nice things' mentality we see in vampire appearence hiding threads and similar.

And that isn't sufficient. Neither is lore, given examples of these races being mages is all over the place. The proposal is fine, get over it.

In previous games [which had dramatically different systems] Altmer got 1.5 times more Magicka, meaning they were much better spell casters in general.
All races also got skill and attribute bonuses from their race from the start.

The fact that in previous games you could easily generalize, level all skill lines, and focus on all attributes equally without a drawback to others (skyrim not counted on some points) means that your Racial passives didn’t have any large impact by end game save for some minor details.

It isn’t the Racial passives here that are an issue - It’s obsessive min-max mentalities, the game having a different system and style, and people refusing to accept how small the difference between a “Stamina” race and a “magicka” race really is.

This isn’t a denial of “nice things”, it’s a refusal to let people steamroll over the most significant “Elder Scrolls” features in ESO just because the like having 5% more Damage or 33 more Resource Regen.

Also, I don’t care if the give Vampire-exclusive skins to make them look like pretty snow, blochy shadows, or their pre-vamp looks. That isn’t a serious issue in a world filled with magic and illusion as changing a magicka-born elf in to a Stamina-stuffed Man.

teiselaise

This is just dumb, what we have right now is a system where every race can do everything, though they are more suited for one path, those changes would make the game incredibly unbalanced and the same problem would persist, i still can't make a khajiit healer, or an orc tank, well I can but they wouldn't be optimal, the only fix is to remove race passives.

Rungar

its pointless to dream up ways to balance races and include combat bonuses other than basic resistances. It cant be done and its bad design.

you can do the following though

- 1 per race : basic resistances i.e cold resistance or combo resistance like 1/2 poison/1/2 disease.
- 1 per race: non combat bonuses i.e swimming speed
- 1 per race: individual tradeskill bonuses that matter (like bonus to gold tempers used)
- 1 per race: enhanced ap/exp/gold/lower repairs etc
- 2-4 per race: how fast you learn skills i.e altmer learn magic conditioning faster

then

Conditioning line (changeable by quest or tokens)
- 1 basic stat up to 10% bonus or combo of stats (health/mag/stam)
- 1 regenerative/cost reduction abilities or combo (regen health/mag/stam/cost reduction)
Focus line (changeable by token or quest)
- 1 offensive or defensive trait from a list of traits ie. elemental dmg
Divine line (changeable by quest)
- 1 divine attribute based off the ingame divines personalities. i.e extra dmg to undead

this way can be balanced and also offers gameplay in the changing process or cash for Zos lol.

Turelus

dovakiin5574 wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

No

dovakiin5574 wrote: »

WakeYourGhost wrote: »

dovakiin5574 wrote: »

Dragath wrote: »

No.
If you are willing to break the lore, then the only way to create a System where you can choose your Race without any min-maxing in mind, is a System where Passives are not bound to Races.

Not exactly lore-breaking. There is mages, stamina, tanks and healer NPCs of every race throughout the game.

That.. That isn't even a damned argument. It's just "Not everyone specializes in what their Race is specialized in, so obviously that means different versions that Min-max for that race doing different things exist"

A real world example - I'm Irish and I don't even drink.... Often....

Being born a Breton with gifted talent in Magicka doesn't mean you won't just pick up a sword and run around chopping things to bits because it feels right to you.
A person with an Olympic-level physique who wants to be a Clown isn't a Different Racial Sub-type... They're just weird.
Doesn't detract from their physical prowess - Just mean's it's likely not being used to it's full potential.

I really dislike the idea of changing Racial Passives for the sake of Min-Maxing someone's OTP instead of taking the small statistical hit - But trying to "lore justify" this crap is just vulgar.

I disagree. There are many lore examples for things such as Khajiiti mages who mind the Moon Temples. Breton knights who serve the King. Literally Altmer knights too who serve their Queen. Nords and Orcs in the mages guild, that are actually good mages. Orcs have their wise women and poison makers. The Ashlanders from Dunmer lore generally are dual wielders and archers, they are more stamina oriented however the wise woman is more magic based. Wood Elves have what they call Spinners who use magic. Imperial mages are literally a thing since forever. Argonian warriors and guerilla fighters are well known from the rebellions against their Dark Elf slave masters. So I don't see how it is "vulgar" when it truly does fit the lore.

Sure there are races which do everything, but that's not what their racial physiology or culture lends itself to however. The only reason to add variants for Stam/Mag is to appease the people who want to be X race and power game.
Unless you're going to leaderboards the difference is not going to be that big any way, people just refuse to accept that. Woeler is a Khajiit Tank FFS and doing the games hardest content. Player skill is more important than these passives, just people can't ever seem to understand that.

Bad example, Khajiit tanks are really strong. And the point is to add more variety. And sure why not help people find a niche that they can be good at? Player skill does have a lot to do with it. It is just the minor details and those minor details can mean the difference between 35k and 40k dps. Small sure, but again, variety and just QoL

If you're not in an end game competitive guild who cares about any DPS past 30k? If you are in an end game competitive guild (or want to be) then you're going to be playing things you don't want outside of race any way. When you're trying to play at that level you don't get to sit back and enjoy playing what's fun.

Ladislao

My favorite argument is "there are lots of Breton warriors and Khajiit priests, even Shalidor is Nord".

You see, there is such a thing as predisposition.
Breton is predisposed to the use of magic, as it happened historically. This does not mean that they can only be mages. You can make excellent Breton warrior and beat every content in the game without real problem.
Because of their kinship with felines, all Khajiit are more dexterous. And this does not prevent them from being priests. On average, more agile priests.
Shalidor is an excellent example of the fact that a representative of any race can become anyone with due persistence. And not an example of that passive abilities are wrong, damn it.

I hope that someday people will finally understand this

Doctordarkspawn

WakeYourGhost wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

WakeYourGhost wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Dragath wrote: »

No.
If you are willing to break the lore, then the only way to create a System where you can choose your Race without any min-maxing in mind, is a System where Passives are not bound to Races.

Nothing I've seen here is breaking lore.

Some people break from their racial molds, not everyone is the same. And the game has many questlines proving that.

Khajiit have mages. Orcs have mages. Redguards, do, on occasion, produce mages, and visa versa.

That doesn't mean those [insert race here] mages have "different passives"
They have the same racial strengths and weaknesses - The same base traits.
They just follow a different path.
It's not like it's impossible to be a Mage with a bonus to Stamina Regen.

They dont get it-what-because of some arbitrary decision?

In previous elder scrolls games, the passives are as neutral as possible in order to limit the ammount of damage chosing a non optimal race was going to whatever build you'd go with.

I see no difference between that, and this. The only thing I see, is the same 'You cant have nice things' mentality we see in vampire appearence hiding threads and similar.

And that isn't sufficient. Neither is lore, given examples of these races being mages is all over the place. The proposal is fine, get over it.

In previous games [which had dramatically different systems] Altmer got 1.5 times more Magicka, meaning they were much better spell casters in general.
All races also got skill and attribute bonuses from their race from the start.

The fact that in previous games you could easily generalize, level all skill lines, and focus on all attributes equally without a drawback to others (skyrim not counted on some points) means that your Racial passives didn’t have any large impact by end game save for some minor details.

It isn’t the Racial passives here that are an issue - It’s obsessive min-max mentalities, the game having a different system and style, and people refusing to accept how small the difference between a “Stamina” race and a “magicka” race really is.

This isn’t a denial of “nice things”, it’s a refusal to let people steamroll over the most significant “Elder Scrolls” features in ESO just because the like having 5% more Damage or 33 more Resource Regen.

Also, I don’t care if the give Vampire-exclusive skins to make them look like pretty snow, blochy shadows, or their pre-vamp looks. That isn’t a serious issue in a world filled with magic and illusion as changing a magicka-born elf in to a Stamina-stuffed Man.

Except by your own definition it isn't significant "Elder Scrolls" feature because of how it's implimented. It isn't an elder scrolls staple, and it never was. Not in how it's done here.

The racial bonuses are not nearly big enough to change the game as drastically as your talking about. All people want are different variations. And it's a knee-jerk reaction to change like it allways is.

Doctordarkspawn

Rungar wrote: »

its pointless to dream up ways to balance races and include combat bonuses other than basic resistances. It cant be done and its bad design.

you can do the following though

- 1 per race : basic resistances i.e cold resistance or combo resistance like 1/2 poison/1/2 disease.
- 1 per race: non combat bonuses i.e swimming speed
- 1 per race: individual tradeskill bonuses that matter (like bonus to gold tempers used)
- 1 per race: enhanced ap/exp/gold/lower repairs etc
- 2-4 per race: how fast you learn skills i.e altmer learn magic conditioning faster

then

Conditioning line (changeable by quest or tokens)
- 1 basic stat up to 10% bonus or combo of stats (health/mag/stam)
- 1 regenerative/cost reduction abilities or combo (regen health/mag/stam/cost reduction)
Focus line (changeable by token or quest)
- 1 offensive or defensive trait from a list of traits ie. elemental dmg
Divine line (changeable by quest)
- 1 divine attribute based off the ingame divines personalities. i.e extra dmg to undead

this way can be balanced and also offers gameplay in the changing process or cash for Zos lol.

See, even this I would be fine with.

TheShadowScout

dovakiin5574 wrote: »

I have seen a lot of people complain that they are stuck to certain roles depending on their race. I agree, so I have done some research on racial passives and I believe I have found a simple solution that would be easy to implement and should make players happy. In short... RACIAL TYPES! I suggest having TWO types of each race: One with a stamina emphasis, one with a magic emphasis...

...and THAT is where the idea breaks down and proves your "Well researched" claim a sham.

It has -always- been part of the elder scrolls lore that some races just were better at physical stuff thanks to generations upon generations of selective breeding for "warriors" or whatever, ands some races were better at magic, usually thanks to elf blood in some way... so messing as to let people cherry-pick their passives with that would be throwing the elder scrolls lore out of the window.
Epic Fail!

dovakiin5574 wrote: »

Not exactly lore-breaking. There is mages, stamina, tanks and healer NPCs of every race throughout the game.

Exactly lore-breaking!

Yes, there is all kinds or all races. But they did -not- cherry-pick their passives, they became stamina builds despite being bretons or altmer, and magica builds despite being orcs or redguards!
And when one of them became exceptional, like, say, a nord making it to archmage... then they are remembered for it, while noone bothers to recall the dozenth altmer mage of great power, because you can barely throw a spitball into tamriel history without hitting some great altmer mage... but the one nord who managed that achievment, that one you do recall. Because of the exception, because he succeeded -despire- his not exactly magica-friendly race!

dovakiin5574 wrote: »

Again the IT professional example you are using in the wrong way. It is possible for an Altmer to be born dumb as a door nail but tough (stamina) and a Khajiit to be born weak and clumsy but intelligent (mage).

True.
But that has -nothing- to do with racial passives, and -everything- to do with how they spent their attribute points!

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Nothing I've seen here is breaking lore.

Then you haven't been looking closely enough.
Yes, every race has every job

But that doesn't mean they get to pick their passives. That would be like saying... I dunno, african people have to give up their resistance to sunburn if they want to learn skiing or something... which is clearly untrue, and silly, yes?

Fact is, TES lore always had it that bretons and altmer had addvantages in magic, redguards and imperials in fighting, orcs and nords in toughness, bosmer and khajiit in sneaking, dunmer in fire and argonians in swimming...
Now, HOW that should be represented in ESO is a different discussion, and one worth having (I personally would prefer a way that gives a big bonus at the beginning, but only a neglectable in endgame efficiency... so that in the end, it did not matter as much)

...

And as I keep saying whenever this comes up, instead of asking them to throw out a part of the TES lore to cater to gamers, maybe think of what other options there could be. Not changing something, but maybe adding something?

I keep suggesting "background passives", that can be done -in addition- to the racial ones... things to reflect a characters birthplace, upbringing, life before the adventuring career... like:

...someone who grew up in skyrim might have a bit of extra cold resistance from being used to it, someone who grew up in black marsh might have a bit of extra disease resistance from making it through adult age there, someone who grew up in vvardenfell might have a bit of fire resistance from living near the ashlands and someone who grew up in valenwood might have some extra sneakyness from picking up forester skills as a kid;

...someone who grew up in a noble household surrounded by tutors and with access to a good library might have a leg up in magica, while someone who grew up helping the family business as commoner might have gained some extra stamina, and someone who grew up with exiles out in the wilds might gain a bit of extra toughness;

...someone who was a mystic scholar before adventuring might gain some spell resistance, somene who was a skilled worker might get a crafting bonus, and someone who was a petty criminal might get a pickpocket bonus;

...and so on...

...there could even be negative perks associated with this... the bookish scholar might get a penalty to vendor prices due to lack of haggling skills while the child of exiles might get increased bounty gain because the city guard has prejudices, or whatever...

Each on its own should be less then any racial perk... but they would make up for it by being freely selectable (though they might require "any race, any alliance" unlock for selecting non-alliance birthplaces I guess).

Dragath

dovakiin5574 wrote: »

WakeYourGhost wrote: »

dovakiin5574 wrote: »

Dragath wrote: »

No.
If you are willing to break the lore, then the only way to create a System where you can choose your Race without any min-maxing in mind, is a System where Passives are not bound to Races.

Not exactly lore-breaking. There is mages, stamina, tanks and healer NPCs of every race throughout the game.

That.. That isn't even a damned argument. It's just "Not everyone specializes in what their Race is specialized in, so obviously that means different versions that Min-max for that race doing different things exist"

A real world example - I'm Irish and I don't even drink.... Often....

Being born a Breton with gifted talent in Magicka doesn't mean you won't just pick up a sword and run around chopping things to bits because it feels right to you.
A person with an Olympic-level physique who wants to be a Clown isn't a Different Racial Sub-type... They're just weird.
Doesn't detract from their physical prowess - Just mean's it's likely not being used to it's full potential.

I really dislike the idea of changing Racial Passives for the sake of Min-Maxing someone's OTP instead of taking the small statistical hit - But trying to "lore justify" this crap is just vulgar.

I disagree. There are many lore examples for things such as Khajiiti mages who mind the Moon Temples. Breton knights who serve the King. Literally Altmer knights too who serve their Queen. Nords and Orcs in the mages guild, that are actually good mages. Orcs have their wise women and poison makers. The Ashlanders from Dunmer lore generally are dual wielders and archers, they are more stamina oriented however the wise woman is more magic based. Wood Elves have what they call Spinners who use magic. Imperial mages are literally a thing since forever. Argonian warriors and guerilla fighters are well known from the rebellions against their Dark Elf slave masters. So I don't see how it is "vulgar" when it truly does fit the lore.

you can argue and disagree as much as you want.
just look through the elder scrolls games and check the passives. its not like ESO is the first one with that kind of racial bonuses.
there lore is what it is. you can't disagree the lore away, so to speak.
personally, i'd prefer a free system like i suggested, but thats not how elder scrolls works, at this time.

Doctordarkspawn

Dragath wrote: »

dovakiin5574 wrote: »

WakeYourGhost wrote: »

dovakiin5574 wrote: »

Dragath wrote: »

No.
If you are willing to break the lore, then the only way to create a System where you can choose your Race without any min-maxing in mind, is a System where Passives are not bound to Races.

Not exactly lore-breaking. There is mages, stamina, tanks and healer NPCs of every race throughout the game.

That.. That isn't even a damned argument. It's just "Not everyone specializes in what their Race is specialized in, so obviously that means different versions that Min-max for that race doing different things exist"

A real world example - I'm Irish and I don't even drink.... Often....

Being born a Breton with gifted talent in Magicka doesn't mean you won't just pick up a sword and run around chopping things to bits because it feels right to you.
A person with an Olympic-level physique who wants to be a Clown isn't a Different Racial Sub-type... They're just weird.
Doesn't detract from their physical prowess - Just mean's it's likely not being used to it's full potential.

I really dislike the idea of changing Racial Passives for the sake of Min-Maxing someone's OTP instead of taking the small statistical hit - But trying to "lore justify" this crap is just vulgar.

I disagree. There are many lore examples for things such as Khajiiti mages who mind the Moon Temples. Breton knights who serve the King. Literally Altmer knights too who serve their Queen. Nords and Orcs in the mages guild, that are actually good mages. Orcs have their wise women and poison makers. The Ashlanders from Dunmer lore generally are dual wielders and archers, they are more stamina oriented however the wise woman is more magic based. Wood Elves have what they call Spinners who use magic. Imperial mages are literally a thing since forever. Argonian warriors and guerilla fighters are well known from the rebellions against their Dark Elf slave masters. So I don't see how it is "vulgar" when it truly does fit the lore.

you can argue and disagree as much as you want.
just look through the elder scrolls games and check the passives. its not like ESO is the first one with that kind of racial bonuses.
there lore is what it is. you can't disagree the lore away, so to speak.
personally, i'd prefer a free system like i suggested, but thats not how elder scrolls works, at this time.

Yes, it is. You get passive bonuses which you dont have to use.

People need to just stop trying to stonewall any change this game potentially makes.

Rungar

at the end of the day the racial system should make certain builds easier to master but not inherently better. In a single player game this is viable because you don't have to play with other people. In a mmo you do and thus you have to put more thought in how you go about such things.

thus race should affect speed of learning, and other perks of fancy but the combat training itself should be the same end result for everyone based on their choices.

Slick_007

Sorry. this doesnt make sense. a race that inherently is magical does not suddenly have stam traits for instance.

RupzSkooma

cool idea.

Doctordarkspawn

Slick_007 wrote: »

Sorry. this doesnt make sense. a race that inherently is magical does not suddenly have stam traits for instance.

Stam traits can be gained by physical conditioning. Magical traits can be gained by being born just more magicallly inclined.

S'not that it does not make sense, it's reisistance to change.

TheShadowScout

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Slick_007 wrote: »

Sorry. this doesnt make sense. a race that inherently is magical does not suddenly have stam traits for instance.

Stam traits can be gained by physical conditioning. Magical traits can be gained by being born just more magicallly inclined.

You -do- realize that the racial passives represent genetic advantages, right?

No amount of physical conditioning will change your genes. No matter what Saitama says!

The "physical conditioning" is represented by assingning attribute points to stamina and health. Adding them to magica would represent the mental training or sorcerors.

This has -nothing- to do with racial passives. Those are more like... eye color or something like that... go on, train hard enough until your eye color changes, and report back once they do...

Doctordarkspawn

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Slick_007 wrote: »

Sorry. this doesnt make sense. a race that inherently is magical does not suddenly have stam traits for instance.

Stam traits can be gained by physical conditioning. Magical traits can be gained by being born just more magicallly inclined.

You -do- realize that the racial passives represent genetic advantages, right?

No amount of physical conditioning will change your genes. No matter what Saitama says!

The "physical conditioning" is represented by assingning attribute points to stamina and health. Adding them to magica would represent the mental training or sorcerors.

This has -nothing- to do with racial passives. Those are more like... eye color or something like that... go on, train hard enough until your eye color changes, and report back once they do...

A khajiit can be incredibly clumsey but good at spellcasting.

A orc can be not all that great with a sword, but great with a staff. Or an Altmer who simply dislikes the use of magic. These people exist, even in IRL. A family produces people of a certain profession until suddenly someone just does not pick up the family buisness. Genetic anomolies happen, so if you wanna use -that- arguement, I can likely find you examples to the contrary.

Whatever you choose to quantify the bonuses as, there is no reason a second set cannot exist besides resistance to change.

Agree to disagree if you want but I call it like I see it.

logarifmik

This game definitely needs race passives tree. Even OP's suggestion is better, than what we have now. I don't like this questionable in many ways stamina/magicka dichotomy, but with it in mind such approach sounds like a quite logical thing.

Solariken

I like the OP suggestion a lot, even if some of the numbers are a little out of whack. It doesn't break any lore at all, idk what some of these crazyhorse posters are on about.

Something that COULD be argued as lore-breaking and illogical is that most of the passives are % amps. A much better representation of natural talent would be flat bonuses that are the same relative strength no matter how you spec your character. So for example, an Imperial who is naturally tough (ie +2500 HP) would retain his natural toughness if he focuses on magic.

Mettaricana

Keep telling your selves lore...

Shalidor the nord mage
Ayrenn the altmer warrior
Darian the breton knight
Every khajiit in the game mage
Every bosmer a mage
King kurog is basically a magicka dk
Abnur tharn the max health and stam imperial staffwielder

Most powerful people in the game don't even follow lore...

Rungar

in eso all races are inherently magical and in fact there is no non magical class in this game.

ALL classes start out using magical skills. Some have stamina morphs and there are the weapon skills.

magic is the default. Thus it makes no sense to say that an altmer should be the best statwise magic user or any other choice.

that doesn't mean they cant learn magic the fastest though which is the same thing but better balanced for a game such as this.

Radinyn

Gib

Dragath

Mettaricana wrote: »

Keep telling your selves lore...

Shalidor the nord mage
Ayrenn the altmer warrior
Darian the breton knight
Every khajiit in the game mage
Every bosmer a mage
King kurog is basically a magicka dk
Abnur tharn the max health and stam imperial staffwielder

Most powerful people in the game don't even follow lore...

that doesn't has anything to do with racials and lore.
a lot of people don't seem to understand what races and genetics are.
you can be the best swordfighter in the elder scrolls lore without being a redguard.
that doesn't change the fact that in ES Lore its stated numerous times that they have an affinity for it AND that this is represented in all the other ES Games.
i have the feeling most of the people here didn't even play other Elder Scrolls Games.
there is no arguing about that. this is not about individuals and what they make out of their lifes.
that is also why this change won't happen.
don't argue with the players that are trying to explain how things are. talk to the devs and look what response you get.
good luck!
And just to be clear: i would love a open system where i could min-max without having to choose a certain race, that doesn't change the fact that it would not fit to the lore and that it will not happen.

Nelson_Rebel

Everyone would literally be a redguard for both stam and magic toons just because of the massive advantage the sustain passive would have over every other race


Almost every single stamina DPS is already a redguard outside the niche Builds for
PvP


But in PvE the vast majority of stam DPS are all redguards. Why do you think that is? The sustain passive is fing Powerful and having a magic version of a redguard would be ridiculous because everyone would be a redguard making DC have the most overpowered race in the game naturally. And would make NO sense lore wise to have all redguards naturally better at magic than all Elven/Mer Races.

That would be just be plain stupid

srfrogg23

“But, it doesn’t fit with the lore!” And, “Muh immersion!”

Joy_Division

Turelus wrote: »

No

dovakiin5574 wrote: »

WakeYourGhost wrote: »

dovakiin5574 wrote: »

Dragath wrote: »

No.
If you are willing to break the lore, then the only way to create a System where you can choose your Race without any min-maxing in mind, is a System where Passives are not bound to Races.

Not exactly lore-breaking. There is mages, stamina, tanks and healer NPCs of every race throughout the game.

That.. That isn't even a damned argument. It's just "Not everyone specializes in what their Race is specialized in, so obviously that means different versions that Min-max for that race doing different things exist"

A real world example - I'm Irish and I don't even drink.... Often....

Being born a Breton with gifted talent in Magicka doesn't mean you won't just pick up a sword and run around chopping things to bits because it feels right to you.
A person with an Olympic-level physique who wants to be a Clown isn't a Different Racial Sub-type... They're just weird.
Doesn't detract from their physical prowess - Just mean's it's likely not being used to it's full potential.

I really dislike the idea of changing Racial Passives for the sake of Min-Maxing someone's OTP instead of taking the small statistical hit - But trying to "lore justify" this crap is just vulgar.

I disagree. There are many lore examples for things such as Khajiiti mages who mind the Moon Temples. Breton knights who serve the King. Literally Altmer knights too who serve their Queen. Nords and Orcs in the mages guild, that are actually good mages. Orcs have their wise women and poison makers. The Ashlanders from Dunmer lore generally are dual wielders and archers, they are more stamina oriented however the wise woman is more magic based. Wood Elves have what they call Spinners who use magic. Imperial mages are literally a thing since forever. Argonian warriors and guerilla fighters are well known from the rebellions against their Dark Elf slave masters. So I don't see how it is "vulgar" when it truly does fit the lore.

Sure there are races which do everything, but that's not what their racial physiology or culture lends itself to however. The only reason to add variants for Stam/Mag is to appease the people who want to be X race and power game.
Unless you're going to leaderboards the difference is not going to be that big any way, people just refuse to accept that. Woeler is a Khajiit Tank FFS and doing the games hardest content. Player skill is more important than these passives, just people can't ever seem to understand that.

We do understand that. I play a Nord Healer, which is the worst combination there is and I can complete all the content in the game.

That being said, it is super frustrating to know that the choice you made is mechanically bad and is letting you down. I don;t care so much that there isn't synergy between my choice (Nord) and my role (Healer). I do care that the race choice I made is just bad.

Jura23

All ppl who are depressed about their racial passives, do yourself a favor and forget any racial passives exist. Then we can all play the game peacefully without these useless discussions.

Doctordarkspawn

Dragath wrote: »

Mettaricana wrote: »

Keep telling your selves lore...

Shalidor the nord mage
Ayrenn the altmer warrior
Darian the breton knight
Every khajiit in the game mage
Every bosmer a mage
King kurog is basically a magicka dk
Abnur tharn the max health and stam imperial staffwielder

Most powerful people in the game don't even follow lore...

that doesn't has anything to do with racials and lore.
a lot of people don't seem to understand what races and genetics are.
you can be the best swordfighter in the elder scrolls lore without being a redguard.
that doesn't change the fact that in ES Lore its stated numerous times that they have an affinity for it AND that this is represented in all the other ES Games.
i have the feeling most of the people here didn't even play other Elder Scrolls Games.
there is no arguing about that. this is not about individuals and what they make out of their lifes.
that is also why this change won't happen.
don't argue with the players that are trying to explain how things are. talk to the devs and look what response you get.
good luck!
And just to be clear: i would love a open system where i could min-max without having to choose a certain race, that doesn't change the fact that it would not fit to the lore and that it will not happen.

I'd love to see the devs respond and agree with us. And I'd love to read your response. I'm sure it'd be pure gold.

Joshuagm1991

This was a very neat post. I enjoyed reading.

Dragath

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Dragath wrote: »

Mettaricana wrote: »

Keep telling your selves lore...

Shalidor the nord mage
Ayrenn the altmer warrior
Darian the breton knight
Every khajiit in the game mage
Every bosmer a mage
King kurog is basically a magicka dk
Abnur tharn the max health and stam imperial staffwielder

Most powerful people in the game don't even follow lore...

that doesn't has anything to do with racials and lore.
a lot of people don't seem to understand what races and genetics are.
you can be the best swordfighter in the elder scrolls lore without being a redguard.
that doesn't change the fact that in ES Lore its stated numerous times that they have an affinity for it AND that this is represented in all the other ES Games.
i have the feeling most of the people here didn't even play other Elder Scrolls Games.
there is no arguing about that. this is not about individuals and what they make out of their lifes.
that is also why this change won't happen.
don't argue with the players that are trying to explain how things are. talk to the devs and look what response you get.
good luck!
And just to be clear: i would love a open system where i could min-max without having to choose a certain race, that doesn't change the fact that it would not fit to the lore and that it will not happen.

I'd love to see the devs respond and agree with us. And I'd love to read your response. I'm sure it'd be pure gold.

i'd be happy to be able to choose a race without having to think about min-maxing.
too bad they would never agree with you, though.

Silver_Strider

On the whole, Argonian passives aren't wholly lore friendly either.

Argonians have never really been a Health focused race nor do they have much lore as healers as their magic tendencies bend more towards Illusionists. They had Health regen effects, sure, but health itself has never been a strong suit of their and yet ESO saw fit to give them 9% max health and have better healing done, with only healing received making much sense. It also doesn't represent any of their Guerilla Warfare/Shadow Scale lore at all. If anything, the Khajiit Passive Nimble make infinitely more sense for an Argonian to have because it more accurately depicts both their Health regen nature and their more robust nature.

So, a more lore-friendly depiction of Argonian passives would be more along the lines of this:

Resourceful - Unchanged (Might need to be altered or nerfed to compensate for the new regen effects Argonian would gain with maybe an increase in the Max Magic bonus to 6% to compensate for the removal of much of Argonian's survivability )
Argonian Resist - Changed to be the same as Bosmer Resist Affliction passive and grant max Stamina instead of Health
Nimble - Replaces Quick to Mend entirely.

It's a heavy handed nerf to the race overall, as they lose a lot of survivability and much of their healing prowess but you can't say it isn't more lore friendly.