Something needs to be done about this "fake tank" crap

Danksta

Waffennacht wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Right after they do something about the fake DPS I keep seem to be getting as group-mates via the activity finder...

They're not fake, just bad

I agree though, good tanks are hard to come by, and I hate fake tanks.

And tanks are an absolute must for Scalecaller

I once had an actual fake DPS. We had two healers wearing worm with one stam DPS...

FrancisCrawford

The easiest fix is: Let people queue for groups that don't fit the 1 healer/1 tank/2 DD model.

The best tradeoff I can think of between simplicity and flexibility is a set of options:

• Require 1 tank AND 1 healer
• Require 1 tank OR 1 healer
• Require 1 tank
• Require 1 healer
• No requirements

Pick 1. The top one is the default.

Lynx7386

The veteran dungeon finder really needs to check players before putting them in groups.

Anyone queued as a tank should have at minimum a frost staff or shield equipped and a minimum of 25k health.

Anyone queued as a healer should have at minimum a restoration staff equipped.

oli.j.reillyb16_ESO

Want a real tank? Don’t use the finder - it’s really that simple.

Most real tanks won’t dare to PUG because you are completely at the mercy of whoever you end up with. Whether that’s 5k group DPS or some CP-cap joker who thinks he’s hot stuff and makes a mess of every pull before predictably dying to the mess he’s made.

Either end of the extreme - it’s not fun - and it’s not worth my time. Besides - why should I PuG - I know my worth as a tank main and all I ever hear from you finder users is how tanks are unnecessary.

Newsflash - 3 dps + 1 tank goes way faster and smoother than 3dps + 1 healer ever does - in my experience. All I ever see in the latter is an overworked healer and even longer boss fights than the standard role setup - since you’re all taking turns to kite the boss instead of just killing it.

VaranisArano

oli.j.reillyb16_ESO wrote: »

Newsflash - 3 dps + 1 tank goes way faster and smoother than 3dps + 1 healer ever does - in my experience. All I ever see in the latter is an overworked healer and even longer boss fights than the standard role setup - since you’re all taking turns to kite the boss instead of just killing it.

This. Now do you see why I'm so annoyed when I get a fake tank while on my healer?

Jura23

You don't like fake tanks? Start tanking yourself. That's the only thing that can be done.

redspecter23

Lynx7386 wrote: »

The veteran dungeon finder really needs to check players before putting them in groups.

Anyone queued as a tank should have at minimum a frost staff or shield equipped and a minimum of 25k health.

Anyone queued as a healer should have at minimum a restoration staff equipped.

And they just remove the skills/gear upon entry. Trolls will always find a way to troll.

TheCyberDruid

oli.j.reillyb16_ESO wrote: »

Most real tanks won’t dare to PUG because you are completely at the mercy of whoever you end up with. Whether that’s 5k group DPS or some CP-cap joker who thinks he’s hot stuff and makes a mess of every pull before predictably dying to the mess he’s made.

Aww, you spoilt the secret

DMuehlhausen

dennissomb16_ESO wrote: »

Queing roles is a pain in many MMOs. There unfortunately will always be those players who que as tank or healer even though they are truly just a dps toon as a way to bypass long que times. It gets worse of course because so many players will come to the forums and claim that they run everything with just dps toons (there is a big difference between well geared experienced groups who can go all dps and puggers who are undergeared, low CP and un-experienced)

It would be nice if the new level advisor tool could somehow be used to determine if a player is geared/set up for a tank/healer role (of course this would cause its own forum mass protest topic)

Actually in most other games it's not a pain cause since certain classes can only do certain roles you can't get "fake" queues you can get crappy players.

Like WoW Warriors can't queue as healers. Unless they changed that sine I was last playing in like 2011.

Jura23

oli.j.reillyb16_ESO wrote: »

Want a real tank? Don’t use the finder - it’s really that simple.

Most real tanks won’t dare to PUG because you are completely at the mercy of whoever you end up with. Whether that’s 5k group DPS or some CP-cap joker who thinks he’s hot stuff and makes a mess of every pull before predictably dying to the mess he’s made.

Either end of the extreme - it’s not fun - and it’s not worth my time. Besides - why should I PuG - I know my worth as a tank main and all I ever hear from you finder users is how tanks are unnecessary.

Newsflash - 3 dps + 1 tank goes way faster and smoother than 3dps + 1 healer ever does - in my experience. All I ever see in the latter is an overworked healer and even longer boss fights than the standard role setup - since you’re all taking turns to kite the boss instead of just killing it.

BS. Speak for yourself.

VaranisArano

Jura23 wrote: »

You don't like fake tanks? Start tanking yourself. That's the only thing that can be done.

Hey, I main a tank. How does that help me when I'm playing my healer?

JiKama

Are you telling me I can't tank with my sturdy bow??? Hmmmm... I guess that person in Zone chat was lying after all

Dojohoda

"sturdy" bow
LOL

Androconium

Jeremy wrote: »

DPS classes queuing up as tanks to shorten their wait times has gotten out of hand on this game. 5 out of the last 6 dungeon queues I joined had players who were tanks in name-only.

These players frequently don't taunt, have low HP pools and defenses and sometimes don't even bother initiating fights (they just sit there waiting for other group members to attack). One of them had 12k health and was getting killed in one hit by almost everything. It's gotten so bad I'm just about ready to quit queuing up as my healer as I usually just end up having to change into my tank anyway during the run.

I'm not sure what the best solution here would be. Some basic requirements before you can choose a specified role? A new feature added to the report function that specifically allows players to report players who abuse the system by lying about their role? I don't know. But something needs to be done to discourage this.

Can't you just compensate for them? You sound like you think you're a good player. Or maybe, when you say this:

I usually just end up having to change into my tank anyway during the run

- maybe you're actually a tank queuing as a fake healer?

If you're a good tank and there aren't enough, why not just play as a tank in the first place?

As for reporting "bad" players? Seriously? I'm a crap DPS. I don't use buffs, because LAG means they never apply in time (for me) anyway. I should still be allowed to queue as DPS and not have the other three players complain about me. In all seriousness, if you're that concerned about player 'quality' - then why don't you assess what your team is before you start - by asking them - and then strategise around that.

On that basis I'd argue to remove the kick option and force all you super-heroes into dealing with the players that you have.
That means providing them with some help and/or training. Otherwise, you should drop out and queue again; or do your dungeon play from pre-formed teams of players whose quality has been assured.

Colecovision

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Why isn't the other player viewed as toxic for purposefully selecting an activity expecting a carry?

That's a new topic and if someone is really doing that, then I'm with you. The key is "purposeful." If "fake dps" actually exists, it means that the player knows they are picking content that CAN'T be completed if the other dps has the same stats that they do. I'm not sure that situation is as common as people make it out to be and it's nothing like the fake tanks. Keep in mind, ZoS stuck FG1 and WGT in the same random queue, not the player that is just doing what worked for them on all the overland content.

MyKillv2.0

Vote to kick.

Seriously, the issue is not complicated. If the dungeon requires a tank/healer and the player is not fulfilling the role but the group does not "kick" the person, then the issue is with the group and not the game. I am one of the last people to defend the company but the game set up the "vote to kick" option for reasons JUST LIKE THIS. If you choose not to use it, the issue is with you... not the game.

However if we are looking for the game to fix a community issue, I actually wish Zo$ would create a separate random norm/vet que in which players could join non-traditional groups, rather the group is made of the first four players selected. Let players take on dungeons with 4 DPS. I believe @Gilliamtherogue and @FENGRUSH did a stream the opening night of Horns of the Reach (maybe) where they four DPS'd the dungeon on vet. Good players could do it even on vet, no doubt with a few exceptions. However this would lessen (i think drastically) the long wait time for DPS players since role would not matter.

Dont get me wrong, you would still have some tryhards who just want to troll but whatever. You just have to deal with this in MMOs. Some people have no life. As Michael Caine said in one of the Nolan Batman movies, "some people just want to see the world burn". You can't avoid those people in MMOs.

VaranisArano

Androconium wrote: »

If you're a good tank and there aren't enough, why not just play as a tank in the first place?

As for reporting "bad" players? Seriously? I'm a crap DPS. I don't use buffs, because LAG means they never apply in time (for me) anyway. I should still be allowed to queue as DPS and not have the other three players complain about me. In all seriousness, if you're that concerned about player 'quality' - then why don't you assess what your team is before you start - by asking them - and then strategise around that.

For my part, just because my DPS or healer CAN slot a taunt and tank, doesn't mean I built them to tank or want to tank on that run. I main a tank - I've got an actual tank for when I want to tank.

If you are a crap DPS, sure, you should still be allowed to queue as a DPS, but there's nothing that's going to save you from group members complaining, especially if your DPS is actually too low for the content you've chosen. As someone who doesn't do great DPS myself, I'd suggest staying away from content you know your DPS is too low for out of courtesy to your potential groupmates.

I'd say the same thing to someone queuing as a tank with no taunt. Stay away from content you can't or won't tank out of courtesy to your potential groupmates.

Kuramas9tails

Somehow my train of thought went from "anyone can fake it until they die". Now somehow, an issue in a game is the least of my problems.....

Slatra

I main a healer that does a lot of pug's. I collected two skill points from dungeon quests while doing vet pledges, this week. So, I've not completed all of the content or anything. All that for point of reference.

I dislike it, when dps queue as the tank. I'll keep you alive as best I can, though. I'm not the one spamming chat or starting the vote to kick either.

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO

fake tanks? a fake tank is one with 100k hp that dies from a boss light attack...fake tanks are all those who have more than 37k hp/22k stam/21k magicka...with those simple stats you can do EVERYTHING in this game and all content thus giving the L2P issue, if ZoS can do something about teaching their player base how to play their game right...hat down to you sir.

Jitterbug

Androconium wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

DPS classes queuing up as tanks to shorten their wait times has gotten out of hand on this game. 5 out of the last 6 dungeon queues I joined had players who were tanks in name-only.

These players frequently don't taunt, have low HP pools and defenses and sometimes don't even bother initiating fights (they just sit there waiting for other group members to attack). One of them had 12k health and was getting killed in one hit by almost everything. It's gotten so bad I'm just about ready to quit queuing up as my healer as I usually just end up having to change into my tank anyway during the run.

I'm not sure what the best solution here would be. Some basic requirements before you can choose a specified role? A new feature added to the report function that specifically allows players to report players who abuse the system by lying about their role? I don't know. But something needs to be done to discourage this.

Can't you just compensate for them? You sound like you think you're a good player. Or maybe, when you say this:

I usually just end up having to change into my tank anyway during the run

- maybe you're actually a tank queuing as a fake healer?

If you're a good tank and there aren't enough, why not just play as a tank in the first place?

As for reporting "bad" players? Seriously? I'm a crap DPS. I don't use buffs, because LAG means they never apply in time (for me) anyway. I should still be allowed to queue as DPS and not have the other three players complain about me. In all seriousness, if you're that concerned about player 'quality' - then why don't you assess what your team is before you start - by asking them - and then strategise around that.

On that basis I'd argue to remove the kick option and force all you super-heroes into dealing with the players that you have.
That means providing them with some help and/or training. Otherwise, you should drop out and queue again; or do your dungeon play from pre-formed teams of players whose quality has been assured.

The point of the OP is not the quality. It's the blatant lie.

VaranisArano

Jitterbug wrote: »

Androconium wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

DPS classes queuing up as tanks to shorten their wait times has gotten out of hand on this game. 5 out of the last 6 dungeon queues I joined had players who were tanks in name-only.

These players frequently don't taunt, have low HP pools and defenses and sometimes don't even bother initiating fights (they just sit there waiting for other group members to attack). One of them had 12k health and was getting killed in one hit by almost everything. It's gotten so bad I'm just about ready to quit queuing up as my healer as I usually just end up having to change into my tank anyway during the run.

I'm not sure what the best solution here would be. Some basic requirements before you can choose a specified role? A new feature added to the report function that specifically allows players to report players who abuse the system by lying about their role? I don't know. But something needs to be done to discourage this.

Can't you just compensate for them? You sound like you think you're a good player. Or maybe, when you say this:

I usually just end up having to change into my tank anyway during the run

- maybe you're actually a tank queuing as a fake healer?

If you're a good tank and there aren't enough, why not just play as a tank in the first place?

As for reporting "bad" players? Seriously? I'm a crap DPS. I don't use buffs, because LAG means they never apply in time (for me) anyway. I should still be allowed to queue as DPS and not have the other three players complain about me. In all seriousness, if you're that concerned about player 'quality' - then why don't you assess what your team is before you start - by asking them - and then strategise around that.

On that basis I'd argue to remove the kick option and force all you super-heroes into dealing with the players that you have.
That means providing them with some help and/or training. Otherwise, you should drop out and queue again; or do your dungeon play from pre-formed teams of players whose quality has been assured.

The point of the OP is not the quality. It's the blatant lie.

Exactly. Sure my healer CAN tank the boss while also healing the group, buffing the group, and doing my own DPS, but tanking the boss is not supposed to be my job. Its supposed to be the tank's, and a fake tank who thinks its okay to just throw the tanking job onto the healer or a DD on top of our own jobs is a jerk.

Joy_Division

I'm not sure why people are using the group finder for vet Scalecaller, Ruins of Mazzatun, or any other content that requires effective communication and coordination between all 4 players. The easiest way to deal with the frustration the OP is describing is to que only for instances that will not be a pain to complete if you get a "fake" tank, terrible DPS, or a "healer" who thinks slotting Healing Springs qualifies her.

QuebraRegra

Lynx7386 wrote: »

The veteran dungeon finder really needs to check players before putting them in groups.

Anyone queued as a tank should have at minimum a frost staff or shield equipped and a minimum of 25k health.

Anyone queued as a healer should have at minimum a restoration staff equipped.

But yer forgetting the STAM WARDEN HEALER :P

phileunderx2

Instead of having to actually physically taunt a boss aggro from bosses should default to whomever is qued as tank. This should quickly end the epidemic of fake tanks.

Drdeath20

Yeah fake tanks are the worst.

With that being said i play with a friend all the time, Both of us are max level. Hes a true tank and im a healer who can always get 30k plus on test dummy. When we que for random vet dungeons you would be suprised to see how many pairs of DDs we get that combined have less than 200 CPs. It honestly sickens me.

VaranisArano

phileunderx2 wrote: »

Instead of having to actually physically taunt a boss aggro from bosses should default to whomever is qued as tank. This should quickly end the epidemic of fake tanks.

As an actual tank, that would both fantastic to have auto-aggro and a little boring, since I'd never have to actually taunt anything but the priority adds.

Zalicius

I do quite a bit of pugging and don't think there are that many trolls. I'm not saying they don't exist I just haven't grouped with that many. I think most of the time it's just lack of experience with the game and the main issue is ESO really doesn't have a class system. Not that it's a bad thing because I really enjoy the freedom to create unique builds, but some of those builds could end up being not so great at a specific role, so I can definitely see how some people might end up at being less than awesome. There really is nothing in the game that teaches you how to be a good tank, healer or damage dealer which is really needed in the game I think. Especially for things like the higher level vet dungeons and trials.
I'd like to see a voluntary academy/specialization school/quest-line, etc., in the game that give specific instructions for a certain role you want to train for. They could even give a title upon completion of your specific role, after doing so much damage, tanking x amount of enemies, or healing in training dungeons grouped with other players that are also going through the training. It would be a nice addition to the game and certainly might help some people be far more prepared for joining groups. Especially for people that are new to MMO's in general.

Maura_Neysa

Consider it practice for vMA, because thats really what it is. Responsible for your own heals, one-shots you have to see coming and avoid, and the best defense being a good offence.

phileunderx2

VaranisArano wrote: »

phileunderx2 wrote: »

Instead of having to actually physically taunt a boss aggro from bosses should default to whomever is qued as tank. This should quickly end the epidemic of fake tanks.

As an actual tank, that would both fantastic to have auto-aggro and a little boring, since I'd never have to actually taunt anything but the priority adds.

True probably not all the time but like in a boss fight if no taunt is applied then boss defaults to go smack the "tank" instead of heading to the healer like what usually happens now. The fake tanks should not be able to run a dungeon and not deal with the mess they have created.