moved

DoctorESO

moved

DoctorESO

Low DPS

.

Sixty5

Other (specify below)

My group mates seem to be missing their hands.

Marabornwingrion

Other (specify below)

I don't pug at all

MajesticHaruki

Other (specify below)

Players who have NEVER completed the dungeon before, especially the dlc dungeons, and QUEUE for the veteran mode ESPECIALLY when the dungeon in question is one of the daily pledges and the rest of the group is aiming for HM. It's not about explaining the mechanics. You cannot learn the mechanics in one run unless the entire group are newbies willing to spend half a day in there until they complete it.

phileunderx2

Other (specify below)

Dungeons fail for lots of reasons. The last on I left was vet banished cells. It went fine until last boss and the whole time he was in my face and as healer I can only take about 2 hits. On normal yeah I can tank him on my freaking healer. On vet not so much. So this time fake tankage.

VaranisArano

Players not listening to explanations of mechanics

I mostly run normal dungeons, where honestly, a group shouldn't have a failure due to DPS, tanking or healing unless the entire group is doing poorly at all roles. When they do fail, its almost always because there was a failure to respect or figure out the mechanics.

In addition, when I run veteran dungeons with friends and PUGs, the mechanics (priority targets, boss moves, and tactics) are always the hardest part to work out and execute properly. most mechanics can be ignored on normal with average DPS, but on Veteran with average DPS, your group has to know and respect mechanics.

Anotherone773

Other (specify below)

I was in two failed normal PUGs tonight. It was very frustrating. The first was SC2. I was put in with a group of level 40s(im cp 140 at this point) We made it to the second boss and every time couldnt beat the enrage timer. Our healer wasnt strong enough to heal through it nor did we have enough DPS to finish it off in time. I was doing 60% of the DPS in the dungeon and 20% of the heals and i have crap gear on a bowblade. We gave up after about 5 attempts.

In the second group we did fang lair on normal. Died a lot. That dungeon is laggy as hell and i dont think my FPS made it over 60 and would drop as low as a 30( i get 85-100 in open world and 60-80 FPS even in the busiest cities). I couldnt get weapon swap to work most of the time and then it would swap several times at once( though i could use abilities while waiting for it to swap, just not the abilities i needed).

The healer and other DPS died a lot. Like i went through 30 gems at least rezzing them and the tank rezzed them too. I died at least a dozen times. Our tank was very good. But with the technical issues the dungeon presented us with, raid mechanics, and not really understanding the fights that well( even after dying many times) caused us to not be able to beat the last boss. To much dying and trying to rez and not enough time dpsing down things that needed to be.


I dont blame my groups, they gave it their all, but the dungeons in this game suck. Why are their raid mechanics in normal dungeons? Normal dungeons are no place for raid mechanics. You have a lot of newbies learning their characters, in crappy gear , and trying to learn the best way to stay alive and kills stuff as a group. Then we throw enrage timers in and instant death mechanics in? I feel like this is ESO's way to prevent high CP characters from soloing normal ( new) dungeons and farming them. And its a terrible way to go about it.

On top of this new players have to learn 24 dungeons( 31 if you include the II dungeons) all at the same time. introducing some raid mechanics into vet dungeons is fine but you dont know how many times ive checked to make sure im on normal when i cant get out of red fast enough and its instant death.

The need to make normal dungeons more new player friendly and quit trying to make them into mini raids.

Also, note to ZOS, the spray from the dragon in Fang Lair, Thurvodken or whatever his name is, the ice shard spray hits you even if your standing between the red.

VaranisArano

Players not listening to explanations of mechanics

Anotherone773 wrote: »

I dont blame my groups, they gave it their all, but the dungeons in this game suck. Why are their raid mechanics in normal dungeons? Normal dungeons are no place for raid mechanics. You have a lot of newbies learning their characters, in crappy gear , and trying to learn the best way to stay alive and kills stuff as a group. Then we throw enrage timers in and instant death mechanics in? I feel like this is ESO's way to prevent high CP characters from soloing normal ( new) dungeons and farming them. And its a terrible way to go about it.

On top of this new players have to learn 24 dungeons( 31 if you include the II dungeons) all at the same time. introducing some raid mechanics into vet dungeons is fine but you dont know how many times ive checked to make sure im on normal when i cant get out of red fast enough and its instant death.

The need to make normal dungeons more new player friendly and quit trying to make them into mini raids.

1. From the perspective of a truly new player, the dungeons unlock progressively as you level up. Its only if that player waits until level 45 (at least as of CWC, I haven't seen if that's changed with the new Level Up Adviser) to run any dungeons at all that they suddenly have to learn ALL the normal dungeons at once. If that is giving them trouble because they waited, I highly suggest they trying queuing for specific dungeons in order until they feel comfortable with group dungeons.

2. All of the normal dungeons have raid mechanics. They serve to keep things interesting, but often aren't too punishing. Those same mechanics come back in Veteran difficulty with a vengenance. Take Spindleclutch I, one of the easiest normal dungeons. The final boss does a spreading AOE that on normal a DPS can block or simply take without dying unless they are really squishy. On Vet, that becomes a one-shot for most DPS if they don't roll dodge or block. So the mechanics that are present in normal dungeons serve to teach how to run it on Veteran Difficulty. Without seeing and playing the mechanics on normal, it'd be much harder to learn to play the mechanics on Veteran.

3. The normal DLC dungeons are harder than most normal base game dungeons. Where you can ignore the mechanics on most base game dungeons, the DLC dungeons have much more intensive mechanics that have to be respected. Is this a problem?

Well, not in my book. See, by the time you hit Veteran difficulty, you need to be respecting the mechanics and you need to understand your priority targets. You've got to understand your role and focus on certain things in a fight. The DLC dungeons are all about respecting the mechanics and focusing on priority targets for your role. Its a great form of progressive difficulty. If you struggle on the Normal DLC dungeons, you aren't going to do well in a harder Vet dungeon.

So by the time you've hit level 45, you should, theoretically, have the skills to fulfill your role adequately (especially with the new skill adviser) and some understanding of basic raid mechanics like block, bash, interrupt, roll dodge, and don't stand in the stupid. Once you have that, its a matter of figuring out the dungeon mechanics and executing them. Now, I'll admit that figuring out the mechanics on your first run through a DLC dungeons is a doozy if no one's done it before and you haven't read a guide. My friends and I had great fun and a few deaths figuring out normal Falkreath and Bloodroot mechanics the first time we ran it and we were max CP. However, once we understood the mechanics and figured out how to execute them properly, those normal dungeons became easy and became more like farming runs.


In short, I think its very hard to judge the difficulty of a normal dungeon from the first time you run it. Figuring out mechanics on the fly is always going to make something more difficult, but once you know them, it gets much easier. Also, normal dungeons are designed to unlock progressively for new players, so if they take advantage of that, there's no reason for them to wind up in a DLC dungeon as their first dungeon at level 45.

Azurya

Other (specify below)

never failed so far!
well my chars can do most, and mostly there is at least one other player who knows what it is all about.
sometimes it took some tries on the last boss, or somewhere in between, but mostly a short explanation of the mechanics is helpfull to get it done.

kylewwefan

Other (specify below)

Chose Vet instead of normal.

Defilted

Other (specify below)

Biggest reason is lack of communication.

jakeedmundson

Other (specify below)

Combination of low dps and people not knowing mechanics.

I almost never queue for anything by myself... if you can get just one friend you trust to do 1 of the 3 jobs in a dungeon, you will be fine.

Its usually me tanking and a friend dps'ing (or vice versa). Those are the two most important jobs anyway. healers are nice to have but you can muscle through any dungeon with a sub-par healer.

Pro tip - if you queue for a random and get ANY dlc dungeon... any one of them on normal or vet. Just leave. 95% of the time, it will fail and you'll waste hours on it. After i've done a dungeon 200 times, i don't have the patience to hold someones hand through it all. Yeah, they need to learn it somewhere... but thats why you join guilds.

Turelus

Other (specify below)

Lack of communication or understanding of game mechanics by players.

On one side it's newer players who might not know dungeon or gameplay mechanics, some are open to listening and learning, others note.

On the other side it's the "I'm the greatest" players who think they're Alcast because they read one of his guides this one time. Those then to spend time telling others why they're terrible before quitting or kicking.

Both of those noted, I normally have very few issues with pick up groups.

Slick_007

Other (specify below)

we die before the enemy does

driosketch

Other (specify below)

Number one reason is usually the mechanics, but not necessarily because no one listens. In a pug run it's possible no one knows the mechanic. I've also had players explain mechanics badly, or not make adjustments during a fight, which lead to the second reason.

Low DPS... due to the DPS being dead all the time. This blame is shared by the healer not putting enough heals out and the DPS being too squishy and/or running away from support and into death. Who deserves the most blame depends on the group.

YamiKuruku

Players not listening to explanations of mechanics

It's the mechanics, really
even with low DPS you can manage to get everything done (Except its a DPS Test)
as long as there are mechanics that are unforgivable for unexperienced or ignorant players (on normal) there will be pugs that fail.

luckily most normal pugs i run with don't fail Even if i must do all of the damage as a Healer or tank haha :')

DeadlyRecluse

Other (specify below)

They don't.

I don't pug for content I'm not confident I can carry.

Anything that takes actual work, I either queue with a friend or two or run fully premade.

Anotherone773

Other (specify below)

VaranisArano wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

I dont blame my groups, they gave it their all, but the dungeons in this game suck. Why are their raid mechanics in normal dungeons? Normal dungeons are no place for raid mechanics. You have a lot of newbies learning their characters, in crappy gear , and trying to learn the best way to stay alive and kills stuff as a group. Then we throw enrage timers in and instant death mechanics in? I feel like this is ESO's way to prevent high CP characters from soloing normal ( new) dungeons and farming them. And its a terrible way to go about it.

On top of this new players have to learn 24 dungeons( 31 if you include the II dungeons) all at the same time. introducing some raid mechanics into vet dungeons is fine but you dont know how many times ive checked to make sure im on normal when i cant get out of red fast enough and its instant death.

The need to make normal dungeons more new player friendly and quit trying to make them into mini raids.

1. From the perspective of a truly new player, the dungeons unlock progressively as you level up. Its only if that player waits until level 45 (at least as of CWC, I haven't seen if that's changed with the new Level Up Adviser) to run any dungeons at all that they suddenly have to learn ALL the normal dungeons at once. If that is giving them trouble because they waited, I highly suggest they trying queuing for specific dungeons in order until they feel comfortable with group dungeons.

2. All of the normal dungeons have raid mechanics. They serve to keep things interesting, but often aren't too punishing. Those same mechanics come back in Veteran difficulty with a vengenance. Take Spindleclutch I, one of the easiest normal dungeons. The final boss does a spreading AOE that on normal a DPS can block or simply take without dying unless they are really squishy. On Vet, that becomes a one-shot for most DPS if they don't roll dodge or block. So the mechanics that are present in normal dungeons serve to teach how to run it on Veteran Difficulty. Without seeing and playing the mechanics on normal, it'd be much harder to learn to play the mechanics on Veteran.

3. The normal DLC dungeons are harder than most normal base game dungeons. Where you can ignore the mechanics on most base game dungeons, the DLC dungeons have much more intensive mechanics that have to be respected. Is this a problem?

Well, not in my book. See, by the time you hit Veteran difficulty, you need to be respecting the mechanics and you need to understand your priority targets. You've got to understand your role and focus on certain things in a fight. The DLC dungeons are all about respecting the mechanics and focusing on priority targets for your role. Its a great form of progressive difficulty. If you struggle on the Normal DLC dungeons, you aren't going to do well in a harder Vet dungeon.

So by the time you've hit level 45, you should, theoretically, have the skills to fulfill your role adequately (especially with the new skill adviser) and some understanding of basic raid mechanics like block, bash, interrupt, roll dodge, and don't stand in the stupid. Once you have that, its a matter of figuring out the dungeon mechanics and executing them. Now, I'll admit that figuring out the mechanics on your first run through a DLC dungeons is a doozy if no one's done it before and you haven't read a guide. My friends and I had great fun and a few deaths figuring out normal Falkreath and Bloodroot mechanics the first time we ran it and we were max CP. However, once we understood the mechanics and figured out how to execute them properly, those normal dungeons became easy and became more like farming runs.


In short, I think its very hard to judge the difficulty of a normal dungeon from the first time you run it. Figuring out mechanics on the fly is always going to make something more difficult, but once you know them, it gets much easier. Also, normal dungeons are designed to unlock progressively for new players, so if they take advantage of that, there's no reason for them to wind up in a DLC dungeon as their first dungeon at level 45.

Response by number:

1)I have quite a bit experience running dungeons and raids in other games. Even from that perspective, the normal dungeons in ESO are insanely stupid. I started out at level 20 or so running dungeons. You level so fast that by time you get full unlock you only ran a few times unless all you do is grind dungeons all day which most people do not do. Then you run with "vets" that are 300 cp plus and they just run through blitzing the whole dungeon not even giving you time to spam click through quests little lone try to understand whats going on.

2)They dont serve to keep things interesting, they serve to make things frustrating. You toss a bunch of level 40s in SC2 and your not going to get past even the second boss unless your group is doing AT LEAST 12k dps and you really need to be doing above 15k dps as a group just to make it past the second boss. A bunch of level 40s with no CP is going to accomplish that. Every dungeon i did last night except one gave my group trouble. By trouble i mean multiple deaths and wipes. And i had some mid to high CPs in some of the groups. The one we breezed through? Banished cells 2. Everyone but me was above CP 400 and in good gear. As a group we were doing 50k-100k dps and i was pumping out a massive 10-20% of that. Most of the time the tank would obliterate everything before i could get more than a couple of abilities fired off. Which would of been a great dungeon for that level 40 group in which i was doing over half the dps and a quarter of the heals.

3)That is not the way it is suppose to work. It is a terrible dungeon design. No other game has that sort of nonsense in it. Here is how progression is suppose to work in a MMO:

A) Normal dungeons: These are used to learn how to play your role, get the feel of dungeon running, learn a rotation and how to make it work in an every changing environment( instead of parsing target skeletons). They can be ran in crappy gear because most players are leveling and may have gear that is quite old( For example i was wearing a level 47 chest until CP140 and my bow is currently 40 CP old because the only thing that ever drops for me is staffs and 2h melee weapons...but mostly staffs, so many staffs that i was considering just becoming a staff NB). These dungeons are suppose to be for learning BASICS. Remember, not everyone that does dungeons has ever done them before in any game. Many players will be from previous TES titles and new to MMOS. Normal dungeons are extremely unfriendly to new players and then high CP that get annoyed because they are stuck in a group with a level 30-40 with no cp, only add to the stress and aggravation.

2) vet dungeons: This is were you learn harder mechanics and have dps requirements to beat enrage timers. This is where not getting out of the red fast enough will kill you instantly or almost instantly. This is your prep for trials.

3) Trials/raids: end game content requiring the most teamwork and the ability to both sustain dps and avoid multiple hazards.


Add to all this the glichy, laggy, low FPS crap you have to endure while trying to do this content and its extremely frustrating to even run instanced content in this game. I dont know how many times i had to reloadui yesterday because it would bug out. On " The plane inhibitor" in white gold tower when your doing the pinion the blue flame touches you and debuffs your speed. Well the idea is for someone else to grab the pinion to draw her away from you before she kills you. This bugged on me several times where i would still have the speed debuff long after she was drawn away from me and even had it after i died. I died because i couldnt move fast enough to avoid damage. I had to reloadui 3 times on this one boss because of that bug. When your group is trying to figure out such a mechanic and trying to coordinate( a pug group no less) who is doing what, this bug makes it nearly impossible to complete the task at hand.

Complicated mechanics + bugs+ lag+ low FPS even on higher end PCs( My PC can technically run 3-4 instances of this game at recommended requirements) = terrible dungeons design.

Danksta

It's hard to say why they fail because it's very rare that they do. I did have one fail on Sunday though and it was FG1(?). We sadly got stuck on the boss that pins a player and you have to kill one of the shades before they're killed. Unfortunately every time I was pinned they failed to kill one of the shades.

Jura23

Low DPS

Danksta wrote: »

It's hard to say why they fail because it's very rare that they do. I did have one fail on Sunday though and it was FG1(?). We sadly got stuck on the boss that pins a player and you have to kill one of the shades before they're killed. Unfortunately every time I was pinned they failed to kill one of the shades.

This alone shouldn't be a reason for failed dungeon. They could still ress you and continue. It could be a problém only if you become pinned multiple times. But that won't happen in more tries than 2 usually.

Danksta

Jura23 wrote: »

Danksta wrote: »

It's hard to say why they fail because it's very rare that they do. I did have one fail on Sunday though and it was FG1(?). We sadly got stuck on the boss that pins a player and you have to kill one of the shades before they're killed. Unfortunately every time I was pinned they failed to kill one of the shades.

This alone shouldn't be a reason for failed dungeon. They could still ress you and continue. It could be a problém only if you become pinned multiple times. But that won't happen in more tries than 2 usually.

You're right, they could've. I wonder why they weren't quicker to do that since I was apparently the only one that could kill the shades. If they even attempted to rez it wasn't until someone else was pinned.

Stinkyremy

Other than not knowing mechanics. The main reason I see dungeons fail is because of deaths, and the main reason I see peope die is because they don't damage shield...I rarely see low level pugs dam shield

DoctorESO

Low DPS

.

Autumnhart

Other (specify below)

Fail as in unable to complete? They don't.

Fail as in die? Various. Mechanics, inexperience, somebody makes a mistake at a bad moment for it.

Mureel

Players not listening to explanations of mechanics

For me 9/10 mechanics fail. Can say clearly do X and ya got people doing everything else.

Kanar

This poll could be rephrased as "Do you play DD, Healer or Tank."

It doesn't surprise me that DD takes the blame, it is the hardest role after all: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/397752/which-pve-role-is-the-hardest#latest

Since I'm a DD, the reason pugs fail for me is because people die. If no one died, then I could kill the boss and we would complete.

akl77

Low DPS

Low dps for sure

exiars10

Other (specify below)

Last night I had shortest dungeon run ever (not counting when I parachute at last boss fight and just leave).

Premium Random Daily - I got Wayrest Sewers II. Two guys with 17k health (lvl45 and CP650) and one with 13k (CP745). Obviously I got paired with fake tank. First fight with skeever trash mob, and CP745 immediately died but wait, just several seconds later, CP650 also died and mob wasn't even dead. I didn't fight because they all three run quickly as I had to change skills (I was questing in Deshaan).

I think they were typical Skyreach/Alik'r dolmen farmers who have no idea what they are doing.

Asked why you died? No answer and I just get out, left group and got penalty for leaving.

You just know from the first trash mob fight if the group is beyond hopeless.

All in all:
1) People who queue for tank and healer roles, and are not but they are bad DD, too so they just want to be carried with instant queue time.
2) Speedrunners.
3) People refuse to listen how mechanics works.

DoctorESO

Low DPS

.

knaveofengland

Other (specify below)

its hit and miss , i think it be better if they had set levels before you can enter for the harder dungeons , and for the normall dungeons they could be a tutorial showing players thier roles and skills as a basic guide , like healer needs a healing staff. tank needs sword and board for example .

the guilds can help learn thier guildes , also perhaps the most experienced players could have a few builds at certain leves for example lelvel 30 50 cp 50 cp 100 all classes , so everyone can point players in that direction , then we all be happy bunnies .

i am not the best by far and only cp 195 healer but i do point players to web sites and try to run dungeons with them and help them with my limited knowledge , so please if all players could help , this go a long way .