moved

FrancisCrawford

Occasionally my duo partner and I will try something, fail, and decide it's due mainly to insufficient DPS. But most of my duo failures and all of the PUG ones seem due to not grasping or handling the mechanics well enough. E.g., we failed on our one and only CoS try because the other players didn't explain what needed to be interrupted and we didn't recognize it. I've failed a couple of times at the Planar Inhibitor. I actually failed on a random normal Arx Corinium once because nobody knew that if you stood in red an early boss has a strong self-heal. Etc.

Maura_Neysa

Players not listening to explanations of mechanics

DPS will stop you at DPS checks (Blood spawn) There aren't very many of those. Even in DLC, Falk atros, Maz totem. Neither of those bosses are the fail points. The fail points are Cradle-Dranos, Maz-Xal Nur, Faulk-Trio, Bloodroot-Minotar, WGT-Planer Inhibitor, ICP-Flesh Sculptor (hey actually a DPS test AND mechanics)

exiars10

Other (specify below)

DoctorESO wrote: »

exiars10 wrote: »

Last night I had shortest dungeon run ever (not counting when I parachute at last boss fight and just leave).

Premium Random Daily - I got Wayrest Sewers II. Two guys with 17k health (lvl45 and CP650) and one with 13k (CP745). Obviously I got paired with fake tank. First fight with skeever trash mob, and CP745 immediately died but wait, just several seconds later, CP650 also died and mob wasn't even dead. I didn't fight because they all three run quickly as I had to change skills (I was questing in Deshaan).

I think they were typical Skyreach/Alik'r dolmen farmers who have no idea what they are doing.

Asked why you died? No answer and I just get out, left group and got penalty for leaving.

You just know from the first trash mob fight if the group is beyond hopeless.

All in all:
1) People who queue for tank and healer roles, and are not but they are bad DD, too so they just want to be carried with instant queue time.
2) Speedrunners.
3) People refuse to listen how mechanics works.

Please tell me that was a veteran dungeon where people died fighting a lone skeever!

Sorry, didn't see you asked...

No, it was normal. When I do Premium Daily, it's always normal as I want to finish it in the fastest possible time (unless somebody type quest then I do it slowly and properly ). I only play veteran for pledges (keys).

profundidob16_ESO

Low DPS

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

DPS will stop you at DPS checks (Blood spawn) There aren't very many of those. Even in DLC, Falk atros, Maz totem. Neither of those bosses are the fail points. The fail points are Cradle-Dranos, Maz-Xal Nur, Faulk-Trio, Bloodroot-Minotar, WGT-Planer Inhibitor, ICP-Flesh Sculptor (hey actually a DPS test AND mechanics)

I don't agree. Many of those fights actually do contain a soft minimum dps requirement. I daily guide random pugs in order find challenge in the game's dungeons and I clearly remember alot of cases like this:

after 1 hours of wiping exclusively on the minotaur boss and (re) explaining the mechanics and problem points we actually reached the point where everyone the newbie dps and healer are finally managing to stay alive with only few rezzes during the fight. I'm playing tank this time and stand there the whole time with 2 shalks on me that just won't be killed for ages. I try to embrace the extra hard challenge of stopping volcano's, keep taunt on the awakening stones as well as the 2 shalks and still manage my resources and heal myself (thank god for draconic blood!) but the boss never goes under 40% health by the time

Mechanics can be overcome....lack of dps is a showstopper.

Perhaps there should be special button in a random group dungeon run called "Divine assistance". When a dps role player clicks this button and confirms the "are you really sure?" button the game will automatically scale his dps for the rest of the whole dungeon up by a dynamic factor so he hits anything just as hard as a pro dps would but at the cost of losing all rewards (including xp) from running as well as completing the dungeon. This way the buff could never be abused to quickly run dungeons but only used as a last resort for people who really want to help their group complete the dungeon and remove their bottleneck.

Jitterbug

Other (specify below)

Players giving up

vamp_emily

Other (specify below)

I would say bad attitudes is the biggest reason why they fail.

Yesterday I did Vet Bloodroot Forge with a pug group. I was there for 2-3 hours and everyone was yelling at each other.

- WTF Tank you need to play a different role, you suck!
- DPS sucks too!!

The first fight we encountered, someone dropped out and then after that it seemed like 1 person would drop out on every fight.

We got to Galchobhar boss and someone says "Everyone know the mechanics?". I said, "No" and then they said "wtf are you doing here, you should be doing normal".

I don't mind playing with pugs weather we win or lose, but I really hate playing with players with bad attitudes.

Maura_Neysa

Players not listening to explanations of mechanics

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

DPS will stop you at DPS checks (Blood spawn) There aren't very many of those. Even in DLC, Falk atros, Maz totem. Neither of those bosses are the fail points. The fail points are Cradle-Dranos, Maz-Xal Nur, Faulk-Trio, Bloodroot-Minotar, WGT-Planer Inhibitor, ICP-Flesh Sculptor (hey actually a DPS test AND mechanics)

I don't agree. Many of those fights actually do contain a soft minimum dps requirement. I daily guide random pugs in order find challenge in the game's dungeons and I clearly remember alot of cases like this:

after 1 hours of wiping exclusively on the minotaur boss and (re) explaining the mechanics and problem points we actually reached the point where everyone the newbie dps and healer are finally managing to stay alive with only few rezzes during the fight. I'm playing tank this time and stand there the whole time with 2 shalks on me that just won't be killed for ages. I try to embrace the extra hard challenge of stopping volcano's, keep taunt on the awakening stones as well as the 2 shalks and still manage my resources and heal myself (thank god for draconic blood!) but the boss never goes under 40% health by the time

Mechanics can be overcome....lack of dps is a showstopper.

Perhaps there should be special button in a random group dungeon run called "Divine assistance". When a dps role player clicks this button and confirms the "are you really sure?" button the game will automatically scale his dps for the rest of the whole dungeon up by a dynamic factor so he hits anything just as hard as a pro dps would but at the cost of losing all rewards (including xp) from running as well as completing the dungeon. This way the buff could never be abused to quickly run dungeons but only used as a last resort for people who really want to help their group complete the dungeon and remove their bottleneck.

He doesnt heal himself and he has no one-shot after × time. Meaning the problem you were having was staying alive, not lack of DPS. You also said 40% health, meaning you didn't reach his 10/15 % wakes both Stone Atro which could almost be considered a DPS check just because things got harder. Still, it wasn't DPS that stopped that run. CoA 2 Urata the Legion, thats being stopped by low DPS. With the excepting of ICP-Flesh Sculptor and maybe Rom-Tree Minders totem no other DPS checkpoints in any DLC 4-man

DoctorESO

Low DPS

.

CompM4s

Other (specify below)

Partially mechanics, however its the "that guy" who blames and annoys everyone. Soon as people get irritated with him the group starts to fall apart. But if kicked sometimes able to come back.

Yakidafi

Players not listening to explanations of mechanics

Players that do not want/slow to learn mechanics.

Low dps it just take longer time.

f047ys3v3n

Other (specify below)

You get a vet DLC dungeon.

Has a pug group ever completed a DLC dungeon Shadows of the Hist or newer? Honestly, these should simply not be in the group finder. If you want to make them harder than most of your trials you really should disable pugs ability to drag unwitting fools into them or get endlessly dumped as soon as people see what dungeon they have signed up for. It's just counter productive.

ZOS has this very strange set of conflicting intentions. On the one hand, they have clearly ramped up difficulty at all difficulty levels in new dungeons. On the other, they want their player base, whom they have blessed with quest content so easy that you can basically heavy attack through it in white gear to both easily access that content, and be able to randomly drag others along unless they want to face a re-que penalty. Then ZOS wonders why we avoid their grouping tools.

Hrogun

Low DPS

Bad attitudes, players giving up, most definitely low dps and players not listening to mechanics.
It's always a mix of those.

Maura_Neysa

Players not listening to explanations of mechanics

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

You get a vet DLC dungeon.

Has a pug group ever completed a DLC dungeon Shadows of the Hist or newer? Honestly, these should simply not be in the group finder. If you want to make them harder than most of your trials you really should disable pugs ability to drag unwitting fools into them or get endlessly dumped as soon as people see what dungeon they have signed up for. It's just counter productive.

ZOS has this very strange set of conflicting intentions. On the one hand, they have clearly ramped up difficulty at all difficulty levels in new dungeons. On the other, they want their player base, whom they have blessed with quest content so easy that you can basically heavy attack through it in white gear to both easily access that content, and be able to randomly drag others along unless they want to face a re-que penalty. Then ZOS wonders why we avoid their grouping tools.

Yes, I loaded in Maz as Healer on my Mag Warden DPS. Running randoms still trying to level my Undaunted. Slotted the Forest Ulti, Mutagen, and Healing Ward. Had those 3 which is why I was willing to que as DPS or Healer. Cleared it, with my Fake Healer on a PuG run. It was also a 300 ish Sorc tank and one of the DPS first ever completion. So its not even like a random all star. It was however, all people who listened and followed mechanics.

The Uninvited

Poor healing

Always blame the healer!

Sabbathius

Low DPS

VAST majority is low DPS. By a huge margin. It's not even close.

This is one of the game's biggest flaws - it never teaches you how to DPS, nor provides you with an easily accessible method to judge yourself and improve. In WoW, there's training dummies in every major city, accessible to all. In ESO, that's not the case. Not really surprising that we see so many DPS fail at their job.

Following that, the next one is the inability to follow mechanics/perform specific actions.

It is very rare that I see people struggling because of tanking. I mean, there are bad tanks, yes. I've seen DK tanks without chains (morphed wrong), tanks in general without ranged taunt, etc. But those are usually surmountable, albeit annoying. For example, the green bug on final boss in Fang Lair. On my DK tank, that is a non-issue. I dodge its initial spawn burst, immediately Choking Talons on it and strafe away. Between that and the flappers, the fight is pretty trivial. But with a Templar tank, without hard CC, I had to shadow him and CC for him so he wouldn't get wrecked by it. So class definitely plays a role, and underscores just how awful the class balance is in this game. There's so many examples where non-DK tanks are having serious trouble in fights that are trivial for a DK, and so rarely do you see the opposite to be true.

Same with healing. The amount of self-healing some classes have that is built into their DPS (looking jealously at all the MagBlades and Sorcs) is reasonably high so that dedicated healing is strictly speaking even not needed in many, if not most, vet dungeons. And if healer is failing, it's very easy for people to supplement just by tweaking their rotation, or maybe slotting one additional heal someplace. Really, the hallmark of a good healer is knowing when to heal and when to supplement DPS. Runs with a good healer are just so much smoother because of it, because for a lot of the run you have de-facto 2.5-2.9 DPSers.

But yeah, biggest is definitely DPS. Whenever there's a problem, its almost always DPS. And I may be biased, but it seems to me stamina DPS is considerably more likely to get into trouble. I get these "teehee, I'm DPS!" stamina dudes so often, just using a bow on both bars, or not using a bow at all. Or using a 2H (which is better now, if you can work it, but 80% can't). Makes my teeth ache.

dbrand001

Players not listening to explanations of mechanics

We literally used group finder for over 20 groups for vet fang lair. We told dps the mechanics repeatedly not one group could get past the second boss.. they were usually running all over, not stacking, had no aoe and attack wolves instead of boss. every single time. every single group. No matter how many explanations.

RABIDxWOLVERINE

Other (specify below)

communication in general I think. In PUG groups I don't even plug in my mic most the time where as if I'm running with my guild I'm always at least listening. Also, a lot of people will wipe once and then repeat the same mistakes and instead of paying attention they start the blame game and usually just quit.

Maura_Neysa

Players not listening to explanations of mechanics

Sabbathius wrote: »

VAST majority is low DPS. By a huge margin. It's not even close.

This is one of the game's biggest flaws - it never teaches you how to DPS, nor provides you with an easily accessible method to judge yourself and improve. In WoW, there's training dummies in every major city, accessible to all. In ESO, that's not the case. Not really surprising that we see so many DPS fail at their job.

Following that, the next one is the inability to follow mechanics/perform specific actions.

It is very rare that I see people struggling because of tanking. I mean, there are bad tanks, yes. I've seen DK tanks without chains (morphed wrong), tanks in general without ranged taunt, etc. But those are usually surmountable, albeit annoying. For example, the green bug on final boss in Fang Lair. On my DK tank, that is a non-issue. I dodge its initial spawn burst, immediately Choking Talons on it and strafe away. Between that and the flappers, the fight is pretty trivial. But with a Templar tank, without hard CC, I had to shadow him and CC for him so he wouldn't get wrecked by it. So class definitely plays a role, and underscores just how awful the class balance is in this game. There's so many examples where non-DK tanks are having serious trouble in fights that are trivial for a DK, and so rarely do you see the opposite to be true.

Same with healing. The amount of self-healing some classes have that is built into their DPS (looking jealously at all the MagBlades and Sorcs) is reasonably high so that dedicated healing is strictly speaking even not needed in many, if not most, vet dungeons. And if healer is failing, it's very easy for people to supplement just by tweaking their rotation, or maybe slotting one additional heal someplace. Really, the hallmark of a good healer is knowing when to heal and when to supplement DPS. Runs with a good healer are just so much smoother because of it, because for a lot of the run you have de-facto 2.5-2.9 DPSers.

But yeah, biggest is definitely DPS. Whenever there's a problem, its almost always DPS. And I may be biased, but it seems to me stamina DPS is considerably more likely to get into trouble. I get these "teehee, I'm DPS!" stamina dudes so often, just using a bow on both bars, or not using a bow at all. Or using a 2H (which is better now, if you can work it, but 80% can't). Makes my teeth ache.

Did he know just how much that Bettle would wreck him? It took my a couple wipes, because A ) running away from any enemy is not usually my tank go to method. B ) The Death Recap doesnt point to the Bettle either, because he is only debuffing you. Its still Thorkoven that kills you. I suspect Ritual of Retribution would have been enough damage the kill the Bettle it he had also been running from it

Azarai

Low DPS

So, I was definitely split between Not Enough DPS and Not Listening to Mechanics, but I eventually went the DPS route. It is especially prevalent in fights where a lot of adds spawn during the boss, like Caillaoife, Captain Blackheart, Selene, or, no joke, Chamber Guardian from CoH II. Basically, the players can be fully aware of what they need to do, but simply are not able to complete the content due to getting overrun by adds. The tank can group them up as much as possible, and the healer can help out initially, but when more and more spawn, they have to heal more, which just sets off a chain reaction of DPS failing.

If a person is not following mechanics, then that is nearly an equal problem, however. But I definitely feel the pain more when I manage to group all the adds and Choking Talons three, four, or five times in a row and still have the adds alive. So as a tank, lack of DPS is killer, I can usually stay alive and res or support people that die to mechanics.

SirAndy

Other (specify below)

Me ...

Mister_DMC

Low DPS

SirAndy wrote: »

Me ...

I hear ya bud, TFW you get kicked because you've burned through every single mob and boss faster than anyone can keep up and they kick you from group at the last boss because you've ruined their immersion...

srfrogg23

Players not listening to explanations of mechanics

People not following the mechanics seems to be the biggest culprit. If you can navigate the fight mechanics well enough, you can usually get the through the fight if dps or heals are sub-par. The fight just take a bit longer.

If you’re getting one-shotted because you’re not blocking, dodging, or whatever, then you’re just up the creek without a paddle.

Sjizzle

Players not listening to explanations of mechanics

getting one-shotted because you’re not blocking, dodging and blame the healer or tank for your own mistake this can be also a reason of PUG fails...
but what i hate the most is when i chain all adds for better aoe cleave and a dk leap and spread / knock all of them back.... this one is really nasty in my opinion i insta, leave the group if some does that

btw also some dps want all adds to be taunted they do not understand that there is no mass taunt in this game..i taunt only the important adds on boss fight but some want to taunt all of them !
for example on velidreth i found a group no with LFG tool... in Zone chat and they want me to taunt all adds on velidreth fight on me

sudaki_eso

Other (specify below)

Mechanics and fake heal or tanks. Low dps can be a problem in some dungeons but in general its people not playing their role or not knowing the mechanics.
i only pug normal dungeons because of it, here it doesnt matter if one dd is leaving, the healer is a light attack bow spammer who switches to his fist in the middle of a fight and the tank is using nothing else then rapid strikes with a mace and axe and a flame lash. that was my last experience in a normal dungeons...it was a painful run with my lvl38 stamsorc but i made it