Should Cp be removed altogether?

Shadowasrial

Cp is the one major things causing all the imbalance between classes. No so much the skills but all the perks from the champion tree. In non champ cp campaigns your success depends on a few things. 1 your gear...2 your skill selection...3 the people your playing with to compliment your build......AND 4 YOUR ACTUAL SKILL. Yes that’s right skill.... not relying on super buffed toons that can tank an entire zerg. Fights are more fluid as you don’t have infinite resource recovery and you can’t dodge forever either. That means that you have to be more aware of your skill usage and be more tactical in your actions.. is it worth it to sacrifice that last bit of magica to heal? Or use it to get that little bit of crit burst to finish off your opponent?

Yes people will complain that oh iv farmed my cp for months and even years like I have but cp honestly starts to remove the distinctions between some classes. You have glass cannon builds that turn into armored cannons. You have nuke builds and even untouchable fortress builds that you have absolutely no hope to kill by yourself who in turn can kill you rather easily.

So why not just remove champion trees? How about you keep the passive skills if you really really want to have an end game grind? Spend 50 cp to buy that perk. But these % trees are the real balance killers. I miss when there was more armor diversity because you had to run certain armor setups to make your self a certain play style build.

As a nb I used to build for crit damage. Ok so some stam dk has heavy armor and impen on his gear ok I couldn’t crit him as hard. But guess what. His magic def wasn’t as strong and a sorc could come kill him!!! Wow what a concept. Ok let’s say that dk decides to build for def both physically and magical ok so he sacrificed his dps to be more tanky. That’s how true builds are supposed to be. Your supposed to sacrifice something to get something. As a burst build I sacrifice survivability if someone has high def and medium atk but with Cp classes are removing the sacrifices to their builds that would otherwise make a class and build balanced.

I mean what is balance? Fire water light dark hot cold day night alive dead, water beats fire, lightning beats water , fire beats electric.... I mean you guys played Pokémon so I don’t have to explain to you how some classes have advantages and disadvantages. Tanks should take damage not deal it. Cannons should deal damage not take it and magic is just the other spectrum deal damage not take it. It’s just the difference between physical and magical. You can build for max def against phys and magical but have no magical or physical damage or you can build for max damage both physically and magical and have no def or you build for one and def with both. I don’t know how much more I can explain how balance works. And bottom line is Cp takes away from that balance. Without cp classes have their natural strengths against some classes and natural weaknesses. So if you want to negate that weakness you have to sacrifice something else for it. Thanks for listening to my rant

Vapirko

It’s just not gonna happen. Not unless they have an entirely different system in the works.

Jura23

No

Of course CP can be removed and it probably will be at some point, but it has to be replaced with something else. If all character development ended with lvl50 and unlocking sklil lines, that wouldn't be enough.

Shadowasrial

Yes

Jura23 wrote: »

Of course CP can be removed and it probably will be at some point, but it has to be replaced with something else. If all character development ended with lvl50 and unlocking sklil lines, that wouldn't be enough.

But do we really need a separate system? I actually have a wonderful idea that would replace the system and would actually benefit players and keep a difference between pvp and pve while allowing you to allow for more class distinctions and maintain balance. And that’s a champion tree that doesn’t effect player vs player. Instead the cp would be aimed at npcs and bosses and core mechanics. And here’s that system in detail.

You have a pvp tree. This tree allows more damage with siege, damage vs npcs. More defense against said npcs and siege. Passives that would allow for more range on siege etc so while it doesn’t make a player more powerful against other players this tree would enhance your ability to play in pvp.

The next tree pve tree. This tree same concept as above. Adds perks that allows you to take more damage from bosses less damage from mechanics. Allows for better luck in drops. Skills that enhance the damage done against bosses and mobs. This tree would have a few passives that would give that extra push and utility for all classes to make all classes viable in pve. Perks like more burst against a boss if hit from stealth. More perks for stunning a boss and trapping him in a pile of dots like your destro ultimate.

There could be a tree that allows for more returns on crafting. And for the economy. Perks that allow you to have a chance to return all materials when deconstructing an object? I’m sure there are some armor you don’t use anymore but you don’t Decon it because it cost way too much to make in the first place. So how about perks that allow you to get more from your craft? There are trees in our skill lines yes but the cp can be used to enchance non combat skills against other players. These perks would offer greater quality of life for all players and get rid of the balance changes that affect both pvp and pve builds. You wouldn’t need to nerf class skills as much because every class has been dumbed down to a more basic level but the champion tree makes up for it by having a more direct affect on the type of content your playing without ruining the balance of both. Your thoughts on this system?

NightbladeMechanics

Switzerland

Non CP BGs feel really good right now, but both CP and non CP have issues which need addressing.

technohic

Switzerland

I see as many issues with as without. They'd have to come up with some way to fix all of it at once. They need to adjust or replace. It does get old to have to worry about PvE CP then PvP CP, and then no CP as far as balance goes and thats adding to the mess.

jssriot

No

Yeah, like before CP we didn't have major class imbalances.

Honestly I've been leveling a sorc with only a few cp applied and the class passives and skills are crazy. I have like nearly no resource management issues on a mag sorc like I do constantly with stamblades, stamdk and stamwardens. It is rare that he ends a big boss fight with less than half his mag pool. And that's without relying ona pet, because I find those annoying. No wonder I see mag sorcs just spamming abilities through dungeons like they have infinite mag. That's all within the class skills and passives, how ZOS has always favored mag builds.It's not CP. So please. Stop.

Shadowasrial

Yes

Well I look forward to hearing everyone’s opinions either way

DieAlteHexe

No

Points for the option "Switzerland".

Eddyble

No

For myself, I feel CP has its benefits, especially for PvE. And although not heavily into PvP, it seems to have some benefit there as well. BUT, I think w/o CP in PvP it is a bit more standard and might even be easier to balance. Except of course balance would still affect PvE. Vicious Circle, such and such. If those 2 things can't be separated what I would wish for is CP to become more like unlocking passives. Similar to some of the existing unlocks like treasure hunter, wind runner, etc. so more cp = more passives you unlock. no percentages or such, just flat values or effects. yes, this could give an advantage to those of higher CP but that could also give value to having higher CP or playing more to get there. Anyway, yeah, I wouldn't want to see CP go away completely but perhaps change or offer something else.

Jhalin

No

If they remove CP then there would NEED to be some system to take its place. Right now CP is responsible for about half our damage mitigation, half our damage, and almost all of our sustain.

Devoting gear choices to one of those means we still severely lack the other two without the use of CP, or significant character adjustments to make up for it.

thedude33

No

gong

JiKama

Switzerland

I really don't care all to much. I'm max CP and really just run the same CP between mag characters and same for Stamina setups. Whatever decisions are made in the future better result in me being maxed out in whatever they choose to replace CP with. I've put alot of time and effort into that stuff ya know.

GreenHere

Switzerland

I don't know the answer to the CP "problem", but it sure would be nice if investing in your PvP prowess didn't actively take away from your PvE bonuses. And vice versa.

KingYogi415

Did not read post but,

No scrub!

Turelus

Yes

Personally I would want to see it removed or at least changed to a system which gives non-combat based buffs only.

Tannus15

No

*cry* My NB gank build can't kill some people, remove CP!

ArchMikem

No

Yknow how 2nd Amendment fanboys get all hostile and pissy when they think the gov'ment gonna take their guns?

GreenHere

Switzerland

Turelus wrote: »

Personally I would want to see it removed or at least changed to a system which gives non-combat based buffs only.

Not intended to sound snarky or anything:

@Turelus, do you think the game is well balanced enough that if all CP combat bonuses were removed entirely that things would be balanced enough?

Lots of us struggle enough as is. Can't imagine how annoying vMA would be with no CP...

CompM4s

No

No because they need diversity in builds and the ability to continue progression, that is how they kept players in this game for years.

MakoFore

Yes

i think it shold be reconsidered

the idea of just giving player X amount of power each time they level up is just too blunt and unsophisticated a system to eever be balanced properly- even thouigh its founded in mathematics. by giving us more power each patch- we re contiunally distancing ourselves from the pve content- and from new gamers- the are at once- buffing players- and having to nerf each time also- requiring a never ending balance paradox.

instead make CP a skill based tree. the more CP - the more skills u can unlock - the more customization to certain skills. perhaps each 10 CP u unlock a 3rd skill line to each skill- that doesnt give more power necessarily- but more customization, like choosing between a buff that gives immmovabilty vs invisibilty- when a certain combination is cast, sometrhing more akin to the shout and skill system in skyrim- where u could unlock and customize more abilities as u went on. we already have a good skills and weapon , class system- tying cp into that = to give each skill a certain amouint of tweaking would be cool- and then we d see some really interesting builds also.

Raideen

Yes

Remove CP and Animation cancelling.

Those two components have created the most toxic environment I have ever seen in the raid/dungeon environment.

VaranisArano

No

I don't see how swapping to a perk-based system is substantially different from the current CP system, particularly when the CP value is frontloaded so that new players get most of the benefits early.

Also, this is one of those debates that impacts PVP and PVE separately.

No CP PVP is not my cup of tea. At all. I've tried both and I prefer CP PVP. But I understand that some people really prefer No CP PVP and that its worked out much better for certain forms of PVP like Battlegrounds, so I don't make a fuss about people who enjoy No CP PVP.

I've also done No CP PVE, and I don't like it either. It feels like a chore (at least on my maxed characters, I don't mind it on leveling characters, but that's my choice to do that). If people do like it, more power to them, but I don't and I'm happy to have the choice to use my CP or not.

I've experienced No CP, Vet ranks, and the Champion Points. I prefer Champion Points, due to that experience, and I don't see anything in this suggestion that substantially improves the current system for me.

zaria

VaranisArano wrote: »

I don't see how swapping to a perk-based system is substantially different from the current CP system, particularly when the CP value is frontloaded so that new players get most of the benefits early.

Also, this is one of those debates that impacts PVP and PVE separately.

No CP PVP is not my cup of tea. At all. I've tried both and I prefer CP PVP. But I understand that some people really prefer No CP PVP and that its worked out much better for certain forms of PVP like Battlegrounds, so I don't make a fuss about people who enjoy No CP PVP.

I've also done No CP PVE, and I don't like it either. It feels like a chore (at least on my maxed characters, I don't mind it on leveling characters, but that's my choice to do that). If people do like it, more power to them, but I don't and I'm happy to have the choice to use my CP or not.

I've experienced No CP, Vet ranks, and the Champion Points. I prefer Champion Points, due to that experience, and I don't see anything in this suggestion that substantially improves the current system for me.

Yes its front loaded and for pve its an benefit, things get easier on the other hand new dungeons and trials get harder.
For pvp, i prefer non cp pvp as skill level is lower, this make average skill level closer to mine

GreenHere

Switzerland

Also, I would just like to point out, CP enables something pretty neat that skill trees typically do not -- you can allocate points where you want in a more granular fashion. The closest thing I've ever seen was in the original Borderlands, where you just dumped skill points into skill trees/nodes, but nodes often had multiple steps. Kind of like an amped up version of passives in ESO.

It's more engaging to put points into CP stars since you have a larger pool of them, yet still enough of a shortage that you need to make decisions about how many go where. With skill point trees, you just get enough skill points to fill up all the skill slots you want unlocked. Kind of cut and dry. I'd be more interested in seeing "Jump Points" clarified or removed before gutting & reworking CP as a whole.

Either way, there needs to be some kind of sense of progression after level 50, and while far from perfect, I think CP does that pretty nicely.

Until you hit the cap, anyway...

xeNNNNN

No

No thanks. I dont want too play against nothing but bleed builds.

NewBlacksmurf

Yes

Yes the champion system should be removed.

I don’t think the constellations should be removed. Let me explain.

Instead of assigning points, the constellations should work like leveling up in Oblivion.

If you recall, the more you did X, the greater that Y increased from 1-100. So the lower part of CP we assign would be replaced by these Oblivion types of things as the lower constellations.

The upper part of the constellations would work like the Skyrim constellations and unlock as the lower reaches certain increments

These are big changes but it should work very well and actually replace CP. In this you’d level up from level 1 not from level 50.

Some parts of those Oblivion ways would just apply to the constellations and be passives not assigned points.

Another part would be portions of the Skyrim constellations. This would replace the upper parts that now unlock at 25, 50,75, etc (whatever the values are now)

Solariken

Switzerland

CP is fine for PvE but should be removed from all PvP. But they also need to un-nerf some things to compensate.

SydneyGrey

No

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Tryxus

Switzerland

Maybe rework it to make it less of a grind, and with a cap that doesn't need to be raised every DLC?

DoctorESO

Switzerland

Why does it have to be Switzerland?