Should Cp be removed altogether?

ak_pvp

Switzerland

CP should be completely revamped into an active passive system. Such as the 10/30/75/120 bonuses on the top. More stats just means that we will see more nerfs to stars and our chars.

More active passives and we see more kinds of playstyles arrive.

Nighn_9

i like cp

Robvenom

Yes

Maybe not champion points entirely but they need to remove the need to be champion 160 to equip max level gear. I recently got some friends to play ESO and all the fun and relief of reaching level 50 is gone the second I tell them, well now you need to get to CP 160 so you can get geared.

Mady

Yes

Yeah, CPs are just waaaay too OP.

Cously

Yes

Shadowasrial wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

Of course CP can be removed and it probably will be at some point, but it has to be replaced with something else. If all character development ended with lvl50 and unlocking sklil lines, that wouldn't be enough.

But do we really need a separate system? I actually have a wonderful idea that would replace the system and would actually benefit players and keep a difference between pvp and pve while allowing you to allow for more class distinctions and maintain balance. And that’s a champion tree that doesn’t effect player vs player. Instead the cp would be aimed at npcs and bosses and core mechanics. And here’s that system in detail.

You have a pvp tree. This tree allows more damage with siege, damage vs npcs. More defense against said npcs and siege. Passives that would allow for more range on siege etc so while it doesn’t make a player more powerful against other players this tree would enhance your ability to play in pvp.

The next tree pve tree. This tree same concept as above. Adds perks that allows you to take more damage from bosses less damage from mechanics. Allows for better luck in drops. Skills that enhance the damage done against bosses and mobs. This tree would have a few passives that would give that extra push and utility for all classes to make all classes viable in pve. Perks like more burst against a boss if hit from stealth. More perks for stunning a boss and trapping him in a pile of dots like your destro ultimate.

There could be a tree that allows for more returns on crafting. And for the economy. Perks that allow you to have a chance to return all materials when deconstructing an object? I’m sure there are some armor you don’t use anymore but you don’t Decon it because it cost way too much to make in the first place. So how about perks that allow you to get more from your craft? There are trees in our skill lines yes but the cp can be used to enchance non combat skills against other players. These perks would offer greater quality of life for all players and get rid of the balance changes that affect both pvp and pve builds. You wouldn’t need to nerf class skills as much because every class has been dumbed down to a more basic level but the champion tree makes up for it by having a more direct affect on the type of content your playing without ruining the balance of both. Your thoughts on this system?

Best idea I seem yet. Throw other things there like fishing, trading and other activities perks for all playstyles and expand the system with hundreds of perks. That's real progression, not like this *** *** we have that you get buffed with CP but get your legs broken on the skills nerf setting you as weak as you started on Day 1.

D0PAMINE

No

No. Switzerland shouldnt be removed

Narvuntien

No

No.

But i think it should be removed from questing and overland.... although I do like the passives like the double harvesting ones you get for putting in enough points in a tree.

So perhaps we could have a system where CP gives the passives but not the HUGE damage and resource regen that makes most content trivial.

Mayrael

No

I understand that CP system have some flaws but complete removal of CPs would be unfair for old players especialy the ones above cap. Reworking CPs yes, removing definetly no.

Rohamad_Ali

Yes

I could vote neutral but then that would be avoiding a real truth and even though I am cp capped and have advantages over others , I would honestly let it all go for the health of the pvp game .

Aesthier

Switzerland

Take CP away and let 2 handers get double the enchantment 1 handers get, then send all proceeds to @Aesthier

Woot Woot Switzerland!

Agalloch

No

No. We need some kind of progression after level 50 anyway. I am also against to have a cap every dlc.

It is normal a veteran to be more skillful and more powerful than a newbie.

Look at Diablo 3 ( even is not a MMO)..what is doing is doing right with its PARAGON and GEAR System.

Cheers.

Aesthier

Switzerland

Agalloch wrote: »

Look at Diablo 3 ( even is not a MMO)

Uh D3 is an MMO.

Massive Multiplayer Online.

It has massive amounts of multiple players online at any given moment. Nowhere in the term MMO does it require grouping or even seeing massive amounts of multiple players. Only that a server can host massive amounts of players.

Turelus

Yes

GreenHere wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Personally I would want to see it removed or at least changed to a system which gives non-combat based buffs only.

Not intended to sound snarky or anything:

Turelus, do you think the game is well balanced enough that if all CP combat bonuses were removed entirely that things would be balanced enough?

Lots of us struggle enough as is. Can't imagine how annoying vMA would be with no CP...

@GreenHere it woudln't be balance if they were just gutted from the game no, it would require a balance pass on the game again (like when VR levels were removed).

However that might also be a good time to go through and rebalance the world and game so content has some level of challenge outside group play and bring the damage creep back down to a place where the combat and design teams can keep up.

Asardes

Yes

Yes, but only in PvP instances. It's also very simple from a programming PoV. They did just that a year ago with the week long PvP event. PvE is fine with CP, and some parts of it would become unplayable if you removed them. Just imagine people without CP in damage and mitigation, with -20% base stats trying to tackle a veteran trial HM or even a veteran DLC dungeon HM.

GreenHere

Switzerland

Turelus wrote: »

GreenHere wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Personally I would want to see it removed or at least changed to a system which gives non-combat based buffs only.

Not intended to sound snarky or anything:

Turelus, do you think the game is well balanced enough that if all CP combat bonuses were removed entirely that things would be balanced enough?

Lots of us struggle enough as is. Can't imagine how annoying vMA would be with no CP...

@GreenHere it woudln't be balance if they were just gutted from the game no, it would require a balance pass on the game again (like when VR levels were removed).

However that might also be a good time to go through and rebalance the world and game so content has some level of challenge outside group play and bring the damage creep back down to a place where the combat and design teams can keep up.

In that context, I like the idea. If CP were replaced with a more interesting and less unwieldy system, along with the game as a whole getting the tune up to match where we all land capabilities-wise, I'm onboard with this.

What of progression, though? After hitting CP cap, any sense of progression (on the game/UI side, anyway) kind of stalls. It takes a while, but a heck of a lot longer than just getting to level 50. Anyone got good ideas for what could keep us busy earning imaginary ranks/points/numbers/whatevers?

That false sense of accomplishment in earning CP and the like are pretty crucial to the longer term playtimes that games like this thrive on, right?

Turelus

Yes

GreenHere wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

GreenHere wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Personally I would want to see it removed or at least changed to a system which gives non-combat based buffs only.

Not intended to sound snarky or anything:

Turelus, do you think the game is well balanced enough that if all CP combat bonuses were removed entirely that things would be balanced enough?

Lots of us struggle enough as is. Can't imagine how annoying vMA would be with no CP...

GreenHere it woudln't be balance if they were just gutted from the game no, it would require a balance pass on the game again (like when VR levels were removed).

However that might also be a good time to go through and rebalance the world and game so content has some level of challenge outside group play and bring the damage creep back down to a place where the combat and design teams can keep up.

In that context, I like the idea. If CP were replaced with a more interesting and less unwieldy system, along with the game as a whole getting the tune up to match where we all land capabilities-wise, I'm onboard with this.

What of progression, though? After hitting CP cap, any sense of progression (on the game/UI side, anyway) kind of stalls. It takes a while, but a heck of a lot longer than just getting to level 50. Anyone got good ideas for what could keep us busy earning imaginary ranks/points/numbers/whatevers?

That false sense of accomplishment in earning CP and the like are pretty crucial to the longer term playtimes that games like this thrive on, right?

The thing for me though is CP already doesn't feel like progression. I am a 100 or so over the cap so I just wait for an update, spend 30 more points, go back to playing.

I don't really know how to handle progression to be honest, part of me wonders if we even need it (Guild Wars 1 did fine without) the other part would miss aspiring to something.

GreenHere

Switzerland

Turelus wrote: »

GreenHere wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

GreenHere wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Personally I would want to see it removed or at least changed to a system which gives non-combat based buffs only.

Not intended to sound snarky or anything:

Turelus, do you think the game is well balanced enough that if all CP combat bonuses were removed entirely that things would be balanced enough?

Lots of us struggle enough as is. Can't imagine how annoying vMA would be with no CP...

GreenHere it woudln't be balance if they were just gutted from the game no, it would require a balance pass on the game again (like when VR levels were removed).

However that might also be a good time to go through and rebalance the world and game so content has some level of challenge outside group play and bring the damage creep back down to a place where the combat and design teams can keep up.

In that context, I like the idea. If CP were replaced with a more interesting and less unwieldy system, along with the game as a whole getting the tune up to match where we all land capabilities-wise, I'm onboard with this.

What of progression, though? After hitting CP cap, any sense of progression (on the game/UI side, anyway) kind of stalls. It takes a while, but a heck of a lot longer than just getting to level 50. Anyone got good ideas for what could keep us busy earning imaginary ranks/points/numbers/whatevers?

That false sense of accomplishment in earning CP and the like are pretty crucial to the longer term playtimes that games like this thrive on, right?

The thing for me though is CP already doesn't feel like progression. I am a 100 or so over the cap so I just wait for an update, spend 30 more points, go back to playing.

I don't really know how to handle progression to be honest, part of me wonders if we even need it (Guild Wars 1 did fine without) the other part would miss aspiring to something.

Ditto, somewhere in the 800's now myself. It occurred to me to ask because I miss that feeling of "oooh, neat, one point closer!" that I used to get.

...If I knew then how little I'd care about CP gains now, haha...

Not to cast ZOS in too negative a light here, but I think it's fairly widely known that games like this rely on a careful balance of not-quite-addiction-but-almost-c'mon-keep-playing-and-paying-please-please (what's the short, sane person's word for this?) to keep afloat. Always having a bar to fill up or a goal to reach is pretty important for that, and now that I'm past all the ones ZOS has in place, their absence is noticeable. Removing CP would create an even bigger gap there, is my main concern.

Tonno_SenSei

No

Half of the players (I said half just to be optimistic) who complain about CP PVP do not seem to have understood how to correctly spend their points and if they are to lazy to learn that, devs have created Sotha Sil and removed CP from BGs. And still they are whining.

WuffyCerulei

No

Both PvE and PvP would have to be completely rebalanced, skills altered, and so much more.

Not to mention CP is a major incentive to progress past lvl 50.

Marabornwingrion

Yes

As someone who has over 900 Champion Points - YES, it should be removed.

MarkusP72

Yes

1. The CP system was originally introduced as an incentive to grind up the veteran ranks. These are gone now and entire Tamriel is level synced.
2. It gives new players an extremely negative impression of the game as soon as they reach level 50. Why? They queue in group finder, come into a group after waiting time and get immediately kicked because of their low CP rank. They have to grind up to cp 160 now before they are "eligible" to do veteran dungeons (at least for many other players). Due to the level sync they are cp 150. There is basically no reason for them to do this grind.
3. The CP system is one of the reasons why it is so hard to balance the game. Do some group finder runs as tank and watch combat metrics and you will see group DPS numbers between 12.000 and 80.000 DPS. This game has hundreds of gear sets, hundreds of skills and corresponding morphs, a CP system on top of it and a combat system that extremely favors skillfull players.

kypranb14_ESO

No

Wow, I'm impressed. Back to back forum posts voting to remove core game mechanics from ESO.

(For me, at this very moment, it is "Remove CP" followed by "What if animation cancelling was removed?")

If either of these was removed, I truly believe this game would fall apart.

TheCyberDruid

No

MarkusP72 wrote: »

They queue in group finder, come into a group after waiting time and get immediately kicked because of their low CP rank.

I don't think it's the low CP, but rather that people know what to expect from a player that 'only' has 160 CP. Queue for normal dungeons, learn them and also play the other content the game has to offer. There's no grind needed to get to 300-ish CP and by then the whole argument about CP is redundant. Granted that CP is a really slow process and could be improved, but I think the basic idea is much better than gear grinding.

Turelus

Yes

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

Both PvE and PvP would have to be completely rebalanced, skills altered, and so much more.

Not to mention CP is a major incentive to progress past lvl 50.

Would a rebalance be a bad thing, how many threads complain about content difficulty being too hard or too easy?

CP is a bad incentive though, people who think they can't go to Cyrodiil CP campaigns until they've got max CP which is not an enjoyable grind. I would much rather a game where you hit 50 and can go play whatever you want in the game with the difficulty being set around player skill not how much time you spend earning 0.09% increases.

mocap

CP is the endgame character building. None of endgame content should be removed.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Yes

For those that voted no. I hope you like your class skills getting pounded to the ground with the nerf bat every patch. That is the legacy of the crapeon system.

At least remove them in PvP. give everyone back the 5k health/stamina/magicka that was stolen from their toons (via battle spirit) and let PvE keep its meaningless vertical progression treadmill.

red_emu

No

No. I like my CP for PvE and Non-CP for PvP.

red_emu

No

DoctorESO wrote: »

Why does it have to be Switzerland?

NEUTRAL

ssorgatem

No

No.

That's why you have both CP and No CP campaigns.

Twenty0zTsunami

Switzerland

You can call me swiss on this matter.

But I do think the system needs shifting at the very least. It may only be aesthetics-- but for me, It feels silly to run around talking about how im lvl 450~

It would have been a much better system, I think, if they had KEPT VR but added CP . For example, every 10 CP could be a VR. So when I hit CP 160, I'm VR16. 720? 72. It just sounds less.. silly, imo. And makes more sense, because what's the point in differentiating the progress from "levels" if it only consists of an XP bar and... levels???

Furthermore I think the system needs changed in terms of what it offers. It's a very generic as far as an "alternate advancement" goes, and I would like to see something implemented that wasn't all "reduce inc dmg, increase outgoing dmg, and increase resource regen" because that's frankly all it boils down to now, and it adds up to everyone using the same build for the most part.

And don't get me started on the passives? I love some of them, master harvester, treasure hunter etc... But I feel like it's inane to put buffs like reduced craft time.. behind a CP-wall. For example almost every build I use I go for hardy and thick skin becuase I feel they offer some of the most well-rounded defense. And while the simple fact that I'm forced to put points into the "warrior" field and bolster my defense, as a dark elf assassin, is stupid. Furthermore the 10 pt passive "Bulwark"... Well on 3/4 characters that I use this tree on, I will NEVER touch a shield so it's a legitimately worthless passvie 75% of the time. And there are a LOT of little inconsistencies just like that, which make me want to rip my hair out lol.