Really, take it back. Reverse it. Make areas levelled again!

Varana

Came back (and stayed) because of One Tamriel. So - no, hell no to level-restricted zones.

Also, similarly to what alivayana said above, it's really stupid to have normal animals and esp. NPCs getting consistently stronger in different areas.
I mean, there's Argonian civilian Im-justa-guy living in Ebonheart, and I can kill him with my dualwielding assassin. Would I travel to Narsis, though, Im-justa-guy would for some inexplicable reason suddenly be stronger. In Shadowfen, random Argonian Im-justa-guy would be a decent challenge, and in Riften, he would kick my **s. Not to speak of Craglorn. That's completely insane, from a world-building point of view.

Now, a bit more variation within the zones would certainly be nice, apart from the 23-32-41-60k HP tiers that make up 99% of overland enemies. But that's entirely different than having levelled zones or, even worse, restricting access to zones to certain levels.

Necrelios

Nope, no, nopity na nope no! The zones are much better how they are now. It is the total, complete, definitive, absolute CRAFTING SYSTEM that is the problem. The whole thing needs to be scrapped and reworked. Crafting is complete scam and a waste of time. #MakeCraftingGreatAgain.

Jamini

Twenty0zTsunami wrote: »

I have legitimate grievances with the way things currently work, but yours is no proper justification. For example why should I struggle to kill a target a lvl 15 can solo without trying? It's gotten better, but they've literally implemented a system where progress happens in reverse, a character who has 20k hp at lvl 10, will likely have only 10-14k hp with a similar setup at end game.

If you only have 10-14k HP after food, then your build very likely needs to be dramatically revised.

Passives and damage potential are also significantly higher with passives and skills. Even a twinked-out guy at level 15 with 720CP backing it isn't going to reliably break 20k DPS, while a proper build will easily top 20k and have shields or strong healing to back it. Raw health means absolutely nothing in the long run.

Even getting a basic DPS combo on a stamina character (Endless Hail, Poison Injection, Class-based DoT, and Razor Caltrops) is going to take until at least the mid-thirties. That's not even counting acquiring other passives such as racial passives, mage/fighter's guild, Armor passives, Undaunted, and vampire/werewolf passives. All of these very significantly boost a character, and most won't be accessible to a level 15 dude.

Frankly, the only way a character at level 50 won't be outright stronger than a lower-level character is if the level 50 is a skyreach baby.

Danikat

For me - a low level completionist with no CP - One Tamriel actually made the game noticeably harder.

I used to always, always be over-levelled for the content I was doing, usually 5 levels above and it only stayed that low because that's when you stopped getting XP so my levelling would be frozen until the content caught up, then it'd jump up and I was back to no XP.

I didn't care about not getting XP, but being over-levelled meant almost every fight was ridiculously easy. Most of the time I'd pick which ability I'd use first based on which animation I felt like seeing because it literally did not matter what skill I used and I'd only have time for a few hits before the enemy was dead, unless it was a boss.

Since One Tamriel that's all changed, I'm always fighting enemies of my level, and without the benefit of CP a lot of the fights (especially bosses) can be quite tough.

I keep seeing high CP players complain about how easy everything is and it's actually making me regret that my highest level character is almost level 50. I'm thinking I might avoid using CP on my alts to keep the challenge. Maybe even on my main - not avoid them completely but try to work out the bare minimum points to spend so it doesn't make things too easy.

Lysette

Danikat wrote: »

For me - a low level completionist with no CP - One Tamriel actually made the game noticeably harder.

I used to always, always be over-levelled for the content I was doing, usually 5 levels above and it only stayed that low because that's when you stopped getting XP so my levelling would be frozen until the content caught up, then it'd jump up and I was back to no XP.

I didn't care about not getting XP, but being over-levelled meant almost every fight was ridiculously easy. Most of the time I'd pick which ability I'd use first based on which animation I felt like seeing because it literally did not matter what skill I used and I'd only have time for a few hits before the enemy was dead, unless it was a boss.

Since One Tamriel that's all changed, I'm always fighting enemies of my level, and without the benefit of CP a lot of the fights (especially bosses) can be quite tough.

I keep seeing high CP players complain about how easy everything is and it's actually making me regret that my highest level character is almost level 50. I'm thinking I might avoid using CP on my alts to keep the challenge. Maybe even on my main - not avoid them completely but try to work out the bare minimum points to spend so it doesn't make things too easy.

That is the problem with most games actually - if you overpower your character there is no longer a point to continue playing, because there is no challenge at all. For min/maxers in legendary gear and special sets it is no wonder that they get bored by overland content - they overpowered themselves ... it's completely their fault - they could use less potent gear and have fun.

Doctordarkspawn

The level bit wasn't the problem with One Tamriel.

It was the scaling, a problem that existed pre one tamriel, but was exaserbated by the update.

The problem is larger than One Tamriel, and would require more edits to the combat system to fix then Zenimax is willing to do at this point.

Jamini

Lysette wrote: »

That is the problem with most games actually - if you overpower your character there is no longer a point to continue playing, because there is no challenge at all. For min/maxers in legendary gear and special sets it is no wonder that they get bored by overland content - they overpowered themselves ... it's completely their fault - they could use less potent gear and have fun.

Honestly, disagree. I don't bother running any farmed sets when leveling a new character (just CP and dropped sets until I want to jump into Kyne to get Horn/Caltrops). Even at level 3 I'm soloing group dungeons.

CP creep is a real issue.

---

Also "special sets" kind of a silly argument to make. Basically all the gear in the ESO is part of a set, and you almost certainly want to try and get at least two of them. Trying to go without is essentially trying to make it though the game barehanded... doable, but most certainly not an intended part of the game.

Sigtric

1T was the best QoL update we've ever seen. Don't want the old way back.

Smmokkee

I like it the way it use to be.

Ley

I think scaling everyone to cp160 and making all zones viable for end game play, was the best change they've made to this game.

zaria

Jamini wrote: »

Twenty0zTsunami wrote: »

I have legitimate grievances with the way things currently work, but yours is no proper justification. For example why should I struggle to kill a target a lvl 15 can solo without trying? It's gotten better, but they've literally implemented a system where progress happens in reverse, a character who has 20k hp at lvl 10, will likely have only 10-14k hp with a similar setup at end game.

If you only have 10-14k HP after food, then your build very likely needs to be dramatically revised.

Passives and damage potential are also significantly higher with passives and skills. Even a twinked-out guy at level 15 with 720CP backing it isn't going to reliably break 20k DPS, while a proper build will easily top 20k and have shields or strong healing to back it. Raw health means absolutely nothing in the long run.

Even getting a basic DPS combo on a stamina character (Endless Hail, Poison Injection, Class-based DoT, and Razor Caltrops) is going to take until at least the mid-thirties. That's not even counting acquiring other passives such as racial passives, mage/fighter's guild, Armor passives, Undaunted, and vampire/werewolf passives. All of these very significantly boost a character, and most won't be accessible to a level 15 dude.

Frankly, the only way a character at level 50 won't be outright stronger than a lower-level character is if the level 50 is a skyreach baby.

I had an NB twitch, took her up to 10 doing part of main quest and delves for shards. then PvP for caltrops and vigor during double AP week. PvP also gave plenty of levels.
Then I shelved her. Now comes the event just before they changed requirements for normal dungeons and I ran a lot of dungeons. Was around cp550 at this time I think, purple level 16 training gear. First dungeon was ICP, also first dungeon on character, please don't kick me was my first thought, after hitting first trash doing 80% of damage I thought about a vote kick on other DD, an cp200 something. I and tank had lots of fun he pulled larger and larger trash packs, hail+ caltrops then steel tornado or blender as I called it.
Then they changed dungeons so she only got easy ones. No my single target dps was not fantastic, the strong point is that I could keep the blender on for an long time because of the scaling of sustain, had plenty of health and an healer and a good tank.

GiantFruitFly

I started playing only shortly before the 1T patch, and when the 1T thing was announced I was against it because I had gotten into the flow of going through the leveled zones. Now though I've warmed up to 1T and I think it was one of the better changes in the long term, especially now that I got a couple of friends to try the game.

If the point is to collect low level mats or to combat botting I think those systems should be dealt with directly instead of indirectly by changing 1T.

idk

As someone who has 10 max level characters and has cleared all vet trail HM except vAS+2 I like the zones as they are.

I also don’t seem to have an issue getting low level matts as I’m loaded with them. They also haedohave a market value since it seems the supply is greater than the demand.

zaria

Danikat wrote: »

For me - a low level completionist with no CP - One Tamriel actually made the game noticeably harder.

I used to always, always be over-levelled for the content I was doing, usually 5 levels above and it only stayed that low because that's when you stopped getting XP so my levelling would be frozen until the content caught up, then it'd jump up and I was back to no XP.

I didn't care about not getting XP, but being over-levelled meant almost every fight was ridiculously easy. Most of the time I'd pick which ability I'd use first based on which animation I felt like seeing because it literally did not matter what skill I used and I'd only have time for a few hits before the enemy was dead, unless it was a boss.

Since One Tamriel that's all changed, I'm always fighting enemies of my level, and without the benefit of CP a lot of the fights (especially bosses) can be quite tough.

I keep seeing high CP players complain about how easy everything is and it's actually making me regret that my highest level character is almost level 50. I'm thinking I might avoid using CP on my alts to keep the challenge. Maybe even on my main - not avoid them completely but try to work out the bare minimum points to spend so it doesn't make things too easy.

Yes that was another issue with the old system if you did all the quests and also did dungeons and pvp you would out level zone.
Gear is probably as important as cp if not more, if you run with 5+3/4 crafted sets and blue food it make an serious difference. Easy if main is crafter.

Metal10957

I hated One Tamriel... cheapens the game, no sense of accomplishment.

Pheefs

Mureel wrote: »

What do you guys think?

hmmmmm..... selfish much? & what do you need the mats for anyway?
that was what I thought.

You want to end cross faction play, leave the lvl 15 & CP 500 friends unable to have ANY adventures together....
all so You can get your hands on some Hickory??!!!???

No thanks.
We have guild traders, participate in the player economy & buy someone else's Hickory.

qbkitsune

One Tamriel allows for a realistic experience. In real life, nothing is stopping you from getting on transport and going to another city. Nothing stops you from hanging out with friends in those places, no matter their age or experience. As previously mentioned, a bear is a bear and isn’t ridiculously leveled by zone. I remember going to the wrong zone once and getting massacred by mudcrabs. Unless there is some story-based reason those things became super-leveled... Just no. One Tamriel makes sense.

Of course, it’s not perfect. Nothing is as immersion-breaking as doing the zones out of order and having a character die before you’ve actually met them, and then meeting them in the lower zone alive and well. Even worse, there are newbies who accidentally do this because they started after One Tamriel and didn’t know about the old progression. They don’t have the same story experience we did before. What will happen at the end of the story? Just go to the end zone and find out.

Perhaps this will feel less bizarre with the addition of a Psijic guild/skill line where we can explain away glitches with time manipulation.

RakshaTheKhajiit

Danikat wrote: »

I keep seeing high CP players complain about how easy everything is and it's actually making me regret that my highest level character is almost level 50. I'm thinking I might avoid using CP on my alts to keep the challenge.

Exactly, just don't use CPs on alts you are leveling and its no problem. I never allocate any CPs on my lowbies and it keeps their power level in check nicely

Elsonso

RakshaTheKhajiit wrote: »

Danikat wrote: »

I keep seeing high CP players complain about how easy everything is and it's actually making me regret that my highest level character is almost level 50. I'm thinking I might avoid using CP on my alts to keep the challenge.

Exactly, just don't use CPs on alts you are leveling and its no problem. I never allocate any CPs on my lowbies and it keeps their power level in check nicely

This works and I have done this. Besides, keeping up with CP on each character is a pain.

Jamini

zaria wrote: »

I had an NB twitch, took her up to 10 doing part of main quest and delves for shards. then PvP for caltrops and vigor during double AP week. PvP also gave plenty of levels.
Then I shelved her. Now comes the event just before they changed requirements for normal dungeons and I ran a lot of dungeons. Was around cp550 at this time I think, purple level 16 training gear. First dungeon was ICP, also first dungeon on character, please don't kick me was my first thought, after hitting first trash doing 80% of damage I thought about a vote kick on other DD, an cp200 something. I and tank had lots of fun he pulled larger and larger trash packs, hail+ caltrops then steel tornado or blender as I called it.
Then they changed dungeons so she only got easy ones. No my single target dps was not fantastic, the strong point is that I could keep the blender on for an long time because of the scaling of sustain, had plenty of health and an healer and a good tank.

...Er, okay? I'm not sure what you are getting at. It's pretty trivial to get 60-80% of groups DPS in normals if your build is decent. Most people doing normal dungeons in groupfinder are, frankly, not very good.

On my capped out warden, I can pull a steady 30k or so. Not the best by any means, but still damn solid for both vet and nonvet dungeons. Sustain on him is trivially easy (because I've practiced it) even though he is Khajiit over a sustain-focused race. Generally I'm pulling 60% of group dps in vet and 80% in normals unless I'm with another person in my social or trials guilds.

On my new stamplar (level 32, just unlocked caltrops and still lacking poison injection and several passives) I hit around 16k or so. In normals she still cleans house quickly, but I know flat-out that she will not be hitting reliably into the mid-20k range until I unlock all of her weapon, armor, and racial passives.

Neither of my characters has issues sustaining. If you do at level 50, then you have issues with your build.

STEVIL

BTW one "solution" to the issue of "farming lower tier mats - just let you use higher tier mats to craft lower tier items. take out the minimum level for each material type.

then you can harvest ruby this or ruby that and still use it to make iron gear for your newbies.

opens up options and removes nothing.

bethsheba

disintegr8 wrote: »

I agree, 1T was the worst change to ever come to this game as far as new players goes.

At least you had a real sense of progression as you moved from zone to zone, meeting harder enemies, not all of whom you could kill on your first meeting. You collected skyshards and skill points as you leveled and progressed through zones instead of not questing and simply farming for them. You never quite had enough skill points and you had to prioritize where you spent them, adding to the challenge.

These days it is simply about getting to CP160 ASAP so you can kit out in max level gear. I'd like to see the percentage of new players who actually complete the main story line now against pre 1T figures.

I am proud that I completed it on characters from all 3 alliances and have Cadwells Silver and Gold - all pre 1T.

100% agree

Tannus15

1T is the best thing ZoS has done with this game.

All the zones have sets to mess around with, all the dungeons have sets worth looking at, you don't out level content anymore the list goes on.

Personally I think what needs to happen is gear levels need to be removed entirely. It makes no sense that your gear gets worse as you level up. As in, the same piece of armour gets worse and worse every level you gain. This is completely counter-intuitive and the thing I see most misunderstood by new players. this would also get rid of the "rush to level 50" mentality for alts because they can equip decent gear, rather than just throwing on purple training gear and grinding just to get an unnecessary obstacle out of the way.
Likewise this would fix the crafting issue because there would be only 1 level of mats required anyway.

Rev Rielle

I agree with you in so much as I believe there should be a method for us to obtain lower level materials somewhere in the world, regardless of our crafting skill and level.

Perhaps instead of having material tier controlled 50/50 by level/crafting skill investment, it could be something like 33/33/33, level/crafting/zone. I don't know, perhaps that's not ideal either, but having some reliable way would be great.

D0PAMINE

Metal10957 wrote: »

I hated One Tamriel... cheapens the game, no sense of accomplishment.

Before OneTam if you had to go back to a lower level zone you could kill enemies by bashing them. At least now you get xp, scaled drops, and can finish a zone while playing the game. If you think it's easy now, it was even easier before (in most situations imo).

Sevn

I'm honestly still waiting for someone to enlighten me as to why a high level crafter needs to farm low level mats.

zaria

Jamini wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

I had an NB twitch, took her up to 10 doing part of main quest and delves for shards. then PvP for caltrops and vigor during double AP week. PvP also gave plenty of levels.
Then I shelved her. Now comes the event just before they changed requirements for normal dungeons and I ran a lot of dungeons. Was around cp550 at this time I think, purple level 16 training gear. First dungeon was ICP, also first dungeon on character, please don't kick me was my first thought, after hitting first trash doing 80% of damage I thought about a vote kick on other DD, an cp200 something. I and tank had lots of fun he pulled larger and larger trash packs, hail+ caltrops then steel tornado or blender as I called it.
Then they changed dungeons so she only got easy ones. No my single target dps was not fantastic, the strong point is that I could keep the blender on for an long time because of the scaling of sustain, had plenty of health and an healer and a good tank.

...Er, okay? I'm not sure what you are getting at. It's pretty trivial to get 60-80% of groups DPS in normals if your build is decent. Most people doing normal dungeons in groupfinder are, frankly, not very good.

On my capped out warden, I can pull a steady 30k or so. Not the best by any means, but still damn solid for both vet and nonvet dungeons. Sustain on him is trivially easy (because I've practiced it) even though he is Khajiit over a sustain-focused race. Generally I'm pulling 60% of group dps in vet and 80% in normals unless I'm with another person in my social or trials guilds.

On my new stamplar (level 32, just unlocked caltrops and still lacking poison injection and several passives) I hit around 16k or so. In normals she still cleans house quickly, but I know flat-out that she will not be hitting reliably into the mid-20k range until I unlock all of her weapon, armor, and racial passives.

Neither of my characters has issues sustaining. If you do at level 50, then you have issues with your build.

About dps % in normals, I agree, back then I used random normals for fast xp +50% on healer was pretty common and nothing to talk about if getting an group with new players in an easy dungeons.
However the other DD was not horrible, had had no issue doing vet dungeons I would take my stamblade into with him (the easier ones )
Bonus was level scaling and far more sustain level scaling, try spamming steel tornado for +30 seconds, no HA canceling.
just caltrops and hail then needed. no: VO is cheating in this setting, missing one piece to try it out.

My point was that it was the character moment of awesomeness, not vet dlc dungeons or trials,

Runschei

Make Craglorn level 50+ again!

Ratzkifal

Sorry, but I like being able to do zones in my prefered order. Also outleveling friends is an issue that shouldn't be underestimated. Pvp has you outlevel a zone that you haven't even started.. There are a ton of good arguements against bringing lvls back into zones and not even a handful in favor of bringing them back.

Rev Rielle

Sevn wrote: »

I'm honestly still waiting for someone to enlighten me as to why a high level crafter needs to farm low level mats.

Make equipment for friends/newer players. They often don't have the materials themselves.