ice mage

barbarian340

PLZZZZ buff magic warden pve so i can play as an ice mage and not feel gimped! that is all

Ch4mpTW

As much as I’d love for this to occur, I have a feeling that ZOS won’t do that. Especially when ice staves are viewed as “tank weapons” now (lol). Not only that, but ice damage in general is extremely mediocre unfortunately. Combine all that with the fact that something like an ice mage would probably get complained and whined about by the PvP community, and you have a highly unlikely situation on your hands.

EvilCroc

Wrobel hates ice.

red_emu

Lol

Datthaw

Is had a place in pvp when snares were not attached to every single skill in the game...

jakeedmundson

have you tried a full ice mage setup OP?

I'm willing to bet you can break 25k on a dummy without too many issues using ice staves on front and back bar.
i made a warden for that reason only. not max level yet but eventually... i'm just not going to let all those maelstrom and infallible aether ice staves go to waste...

Just don't put points into "Tri focus" so you don't taunt anything accidentally.
If you can hit 25k dps thats plenty of damage to complete all hardmode vet dungeons and for the craglorn vet trials (non hardmode)

Lynx7386

barbarian340 wrote: »

PLZZZZ buff magic warden pve so i can play as an ice mage and not feel gimped! that is all

nothing they do is going to make you not feel gimped as an ice mage. They wont make ice staves perform better for a damage role than fire or lightning staves do currently. Ice dps will never be the meta.

if you want to feel like an ice mage, be a warden frost tank and deal with the damage being low.

barbarian340

Lynx7386 wrote: »

barbarian340 wrote: »

PLZZZZ buff magic warden pve so i can play as an ice mage and not feel gimped! that is all

nothing they do is going to make you not feel gimped as an ice mage. They wont make ice staves perform better for a damage role than fire or lightning staves do currently. Ice dps will never be the meta.

if you want to feel like an ice mage, be a warden frost tank and deal with the damage being low.

ice staves dont have to be higher...just on par

emilyhyoyeon

yea I also vote for ice staves to be DPS weapons while, as others have suggested, a new staff type, like alteration or illusion, be added as the magicka tank weapon. Illusion sounds best because of the whole taunting thing, whereas alternation sounds good because of the utility/buff aspects

pauli133

I think we'll be getting a magicka tank weapon set, and therefore working DPS ice staves, in the next chapter.

klowdy1

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

As much as I’d love for this to occur, I have a feeling that ZOS won’t do that. Especially when ice staves are viewed as “tank weapons” now (lol). Not only that, but ice damage in general is extremely mediocre unfortunately. Combine all that with the fact that something like an ice mage would probably get complained and whined about by the PvP community, and you have a highly unlikely situation on your hands.

For sure. There is a new thread complaining about snares. The first thing that springs to mind with ice magic is speed impairing effects. That and ice armor/shields. I like frost mages, but it just really works better as a supportive role in this game. They do need to buff frost staves, though, to be on par with S&B.

Chaos2088

Yep a decent ice mage build for mag warden with a decent ice staff would be amazeballs....that is all...

Arobain

ice mage is absolutely fine, in fact my best overall character is an ice mage, you guys just got be creative, ice mage does NOT play the same as other builds

P.S. i have both an ice staff character and several SB characters, and i prefer my ice staff, its perfectly up to par, it just plays differently

P.P.S: heres the stats for my ice mage build


it does good damage, and it can tank, so far i have tanked VCOA2 and VWGT without any issues except for when i'm not paying attention and those minotaurs from that one horns of the reach dungeon get their one hit kill in when my ward goes down

leandro.800ub17_ESO

There are not that many skills as "ice" on the warden to make it viable
If you could use ice staff as dps that would be diferent but since ice staff if not used by anyone (tanks or dps) you cant currently make use of ice builds.
As a tank for me ice staff changes were the worst of the worst implementations in ESO

Arobain

leandro.800ub17_ESO wrote: »

There are not that many skills as "ice" on the warden to make it viable
If you could use ice staff as dps that would be diferent but since ice staff if not used by anyone (tanks or dps) you cant currently make use of ice builds.
As a tank for me ice staff changes were the worst of the worst implementations in ESO

my ice mage ONLY uses ice based damage, and not a single skill or ability i use, is non ice based damage, except for the occasional use of beetles on my back bar, ice staff can definitely be used for dps, and the ice staff is honestly really amazing

Arobain

but i'm sure to the nay sayers even if i posted videos of me tanking the hardest content, or me winning duels against others, it wont change their minds, and they'll just go

' so? i dont care, its still *** because i said so "

you guys say yall want the ice staff and ice mage builds to work and be good, but they are good, and you're just not willing to even try to make or use a build that revolves around it because its outside of the meta, or outside of your comfort zone, idk

phileunderx2

I have made both of my mag wardens ice focused and I really am pleased with them. I wish the devs would take the taunt from the tri focus passive and make it a morph on one of the destro skills. Like on clench or impulse that then would probably put an end to someone inadvertently taking the taunt from a tank. Also it would make it to where you could tank with whatever kind of staff you want.

Lynx7386

pauli133 wrote: »

I think we'll be getting a magicka tank weapon set, and therefore working DPS ice staves, in the next chapter.

I dont. ZOS isnt known for going back on their changes, no matter how badly implemented.

And there's far more people using ice staves now than there were before they were turned into a tanking weapon. Even if a few vocal complainers keep crying that they want to do ice dps (If they did, they would've been using them before the change regardless of efficiency), the numbers say they're more popular now.

barbarian340 wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

barbarian340 wrote: »

PLZZZZ buff magic warden pve so i can play as an ice mage and not feel gimped! that is all

nothing they do is going to make you not feel gimped as an ice mage. They wont make ice staves perform better for a damage role than fire or lightning staves do currently. Ice dps will never be the meta.

if you want to feel like an ice mage, be a warden frost tank and deal with the damage being low.

ice staves dont have to be higher...just on par

You cant make ice staves on par with lightning staves without creating an imbalance, and you cant make them on par with fire staves without creating an imbalance. You'll end up screwing up the meta and have even more people complaining that their hard-farmed vMA fire/lightning staves are now worthless, all because a few people want a visual change to their dps (and that's really the extent of it, the people crying about not being able to play icemage are wanting to remove a tanking weapon from the game just so they can have blue attacks instead of orange. Pure selfishness).

klowdy1 wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

As much as I’d love for this to occur, I have a feeling that ZOS won’t do that. Especially when ice staves are viewed as “tank weapons” now (lol). Not only that, but ice damage in general is extremely mediocre unfortunately. Combine all that with the fact that something like an ice mage would probably get complained and whined about by the PvP community, and you have a highly unlikely situation on your hands.

For sure. There is a new thread complaining about snares. The first thing that springs to mind with ice magic is speed impairing effects. That and ice armor/shields. I like frost mages, but it just really works better as a supportive role in this game. They do need to buff frost staves, though, to be on par with S&B.

Agreed. They're an excellent tanking weapon and, as of now, the only real loss to a 1h/shield is the extra set item slot. Unfortunately that one little thing makes ice staves very difficult to justify as a primary tanking option because 5/5/2 setups are so important in this game, particularly for tanks who are always having to run support sets to buff the group.

Arobain wrote: »

ice mage is absolutely fine, in fact my best overall character is an ice mage, you guys just got be creative, ice mage does NOT play the same as other builds

P.S. i have both an ice staff character and several SB characters, and i prefer my ice staff, its perfectly up to par, it just plays differently

P.P.S: heres the stats for my ice mage build


it does good damage, and it can tank, so far i have tanked VCOA2 and VWGT without any issues except for when i'm not paying attention and those minotaurs from that one horns of the reach dungeon get their one hit kill in when my ward goes down

You really shouldnt be tanking anything with 11k health. Even after food buffs you're only looking at 15-16k tops, and most dungeon bosses have a mechanic that will one shot anyone under 17k, so I'm honestly not surprised at all that you're dying to minotaurs when your ward is down (hell they're probably close to one shotting you while the ward is up). All you're doing with that setup is making life hard on your healer.

leandro.800ub17_ESO wrote: »

There are not that many skills as "ice" on the warden to make it viable
If you could use ice staff as dps that would be diferent but since ice staff if not used by anyone (tanks or dps) you cant currently make use of ice builds.
As a tank for me ice staff changes were the worst of the worst implementations in ESO

That's an unfounded statement, and purely false. ZOS has the metrics on usage of weapon types, and they're being used more now than they ever were as a dps weapon. Outside of vet hm trials, MOST warden tanks at least back bar an ice staff, and some other classes are starting to as well. After the offbalance changes, it's more likely for tanks to back bar an ice staff than a lightning staff, as a healer or one dps can keep up offbalance and open up more utility and survivability options to the tank.

As a front bar tanking weapon, ice staves still fall a hair short of 1h/shield, which is why they still dont seem as prevalent as they should. That's almost entirely down to the fact that you lose the 5/5/2 setup with an ice stave slotted, due to no offhand weapon for the second set item bonus. On the back bar this isnt an issue, since you can swap back to 1h/shield when needed for your support set 5 piece (like alkosh, powerful assault, etc.).

Even with concussion and offbalance from lightning staves, I still think ice staves are on par as a backbar for tanks. Blockade of frost is an AoE minor maim, snare, and immobilize now, so if your group has another source of concussed/offbalance (like a healer/dps running a lightning staff at all) you get far more benefit from using ice over lightning for your support weapon. That's even excluding the fact that it literally gives you double the resource pool to block with as well as a free ranged taunt.

Arobain wrote: »

but i'm sure to the nay sayers even if i posted videos of me tanking the hardest content, or me winning duels against others, it wont change their minds, and they'll just go

' so? i dont care, its still *** because i said so "

you guys say yall want the ice staff and ice mage builds to work and be good, but they are good, and you're just not willing to even try to make or use a build that revolves around it because its outside of the meta, or outside of your comfort zone, idk

Arent you the guy that said nightblade tanking is fine because you have a theorycrafted build that doesnt even run trials?

Lynx7386

phileunderx2 wrote: »

I have made both of my mag wardens ice focused and I really am pleased with them. I wish the devs would take the taunt from the tri focus passive and make it a morph on one of the destro skills. Like on clench or impulse that then would probably put an end to someone inadvertently taking the taunt from a tank. Also it would make it to where you could tank with whatever kind of staff you want.

I dont.

See, currently frost staves having a taunt on heavy attack means that a tank back-barring one has a resource-free, long range taunt that restores magicka and gives them a damage shield.

The heavy attack taunt is also super useful in pvp when combined with tremorscale and knight-slayer (Tremorscale procs aoe damage and stun on taunt, and knight slayer deals 10% max health as damage with every heavy attack on a player), and you can throw vanguard's challenge in there if you're doing organized group pvp to reduce the target's damage by 50%. That is a hell of a lot of burst and utility from a free attack. Hell if you add in lotus from warden you even heal yourself and an ally with that heavy attack, or if you throw in molten armaments from a dragonknight you deal 40% more damage with that heavy attack.

People just cant look past the most basic applications of a skill or passive without their brain hurting. If you want to use an ice staff as dps, fine: but dont put points into tri-focus, and expect to do less damage than you would with a fire or lightning staff. You cant have survivability and utility on top of high damage, that's not how balance works.

klowdy1

Arobain wrote: »

leandro.800ub17_ESO wrote: »

There are not that many skills as "ice" on the warden to make it viable
If you could use ice staff as dps that would be diferent but since ice staff if not used by anyone (tanks or dps) you cant currently make use of ice builds.
As a tank for me ice staff changes were the worst of the worst implementations in ESO

my ice mage ONLY uses ice based damage, and not a single skill or ability i use, is non ice based damage, except for the occasional use of beetles on my back bar, ice staff can definitely be used for dps, and the ice staff is honestly really amazing

Ice staff can be used for DPS as a solo player, or in PvP. That needs to be clear to new players reading your post. It is a "tank" weapon, and taunts with a fully charged heavy attack. We don't need new players running around, tau ting without knowing they are, becoming jaded to the game because other players will tear them down without explaining the situation. It is not a viable group/endgame DPS weapon.

Arobain

sigh, i get about 30k wards, i have tanked with this build, how is it hard for my healer if i rarely ever get my ward down? i heal myself, if you want to have a civil discussion about my build instead of simply trying to assume how it does, how about we have that, because you are honestly completely wrong about the build, yet i know you're an elitist that think they can absolutely say what a build is without even seeing it

newsflash, if you are build revolves around using wards for survival, there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON whatsoever to put any points at all into health, your wards ARE your health, wards do not scale on health, they purely scale on max mag, and thats it, so tell me the point of investing any points into health, if my wards are up 24/7? yes the minotaurs mega hit kills me, >>>> IF <<<<< my ward is down without me paying attention ( only if it decays due to time ) and yes the minotaur's hit drains my ward, almost completely, but thats why i simply click my ' 4 ' button and reapply it, the minotaur hit DOES NOT kill me through my ward, and it barely even touches my health

but like i said in my pervious post

>>>>>>>but i'm sure to the nay sayers even if i posted videos of me tanking the hardest content, or me winning duels against others, it wont change their minds, and they'll just go

' so? i dont care, its still *** because i said so "

barbarian340

Arobain wrote: »

but i'm sure to the nay sayers even if i posted videos of me tanking the hardest content, or me winning duels against others, it wont change their minds, and they'll just go

' so? i dont care, its still *** because i said so "

you guys say yall want the ice staff and ice mage builds to work and be good, but they are good, and you're just not willing to even try to make or use a build that revolves around it because its outside of the meta, or outside of your comfort zone, idk

can you do all endgame pve content with it as a dps? that's what im trying to focus on

barbarian340

Lynx7386 wrote: »

pauli133 wrote: »

I think we'll be getting a magicka tank weapon set, and therefore working DPS ice staves, in the next chapter.

I dont. ZOS isnt known for going back on their changes, no matter how badly implemented.

And there's far more people using ice staves now than there were before they were turned into a tanking weapon. Even if a few vocal complainers keep crying that they want to do ice dps (If they did, they would've been using them before the change regardless of efficiency), the numbers say they're more popular now.

barbarian340 wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

barbarian340 wrote: »

PLZZZZ buff magic warden pve so i can play as an ice mage and not feel gimped! that is all

nothing they do is going to make you not feel gimped as an ice mage. They wont make ice staves perform better for a damage role than fire or lightning staves do currently. Ice dps will never be the meta.

if you want to feel like an ice mage, be a warden frost tank and deal with the damage being low.

ice staves dont have to be higher...just on par

You cant make ice staves on par with lightning staves without creating an imbalance, and you cant make them on par with fire staves without creating an imbalance. You'll end up screwing up the meta and have even more people complaining that their hard-farmed vMA fire/lightning staves are now worthless, all because a few people want a visual change to their dps (and that's really the extent of it, the people crying about not being able to play icemage are wanting to remove a tanking weapon from the game just so they can have blue attacks instead of orange. Pure selfishness).

klowdy1 wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

As much as I’d love for this to occur, I have a feeling that ZOS won’t do that. Especially when ice staves are viewed as “tank weapons” now (lol). Not only that, but ice damage in general is extremely mediocre unfortunately. Combine all that with the fact that something like an ice mage would probably get complained and whined about by the PvP community, and you have a highly unlikely situation on your hands.

For sure. There is a new thread complaining about snares. The first thing that springs to mind with ice magic is speed impairing effects. That and ice armor/shields. I like frost mages, but it just really works better as a supportive role in this game. They do need to buff frost staves, though, to be on par with S&B.

Agreed. They're an excellent tanking weapon and, as of now, the only real loss to a 1h/shield is the extra set item slot. Unfortunately that one little thing makes ice staves very difficult to justify as a primary tanking option because 5/5/2 setups are so important in this game, particularly for tanks who are always having to run support sets to buff the group.

Arobain wrote: »

ice mage is absolutely fine, in fact my best overall character is an ice mage, you guys just got be creative, ice mage does NOT play the same as other builds

P.S. i have both an ice staff character and several SB characters, and i prefer my ice staff, its perfectly up to par, it just plays differently

P.P.S: heres the stats for my ice mage build


it does good damage, and it can tank, so far i have tanked VCOA2 and VWGT without any issues except for when i'm not paying attention and those minotaurs from that one horns of the reach dungeon get their one hit kill in when my ward goes down

You really shouldnt be tanking anything with 11k health. Even after food buffs you're only looking at 15-16k tops, and most dungeon bosses have a mechanic that will one shot anyone under 17k, so I'm honestly not surprised at all that you're dying to minotaurs when your ward is down (hell they're probably close to one shotting you while the ward is up). All you're doing with that setup is making life hard on your healer.

leandro.800ub17_ESO wrote: »

There are not that many skills as "ice" on the warden to make it viable
If you could use ice staff as dps that would be diferent but since ice staff if not used by anyone (tanks or dps) you cant currently make use of ice builds.
As a tank for me ice staff changes were the worst of the worst implementations in ESO

That's an unfounded statement, and purely false. ZOS has the metrics on usage of weapon types, and they're being used more now than they ever were as a dps weapon. Outside of vet hm trials, MOST warden tanks at least back bar an ice staff, and some other classes are starting to as well. After the offbalance changes, it's more likely for tanks to back bar an ice staff than a lightning staff, as a healer or one dps can keep up offbalance and open up more utility and survivability options to the tank.

As a front bar tanking weapon, ice staves still fall a hair short of 1h/shield, which is why they still dont seem as prevalent as they should. That's almost entirely down to the fact that you lose the 5/5/2 setup with an ice stave slotted, due to no offhand weapon for the second set item bonus. On the back bar this isnt an issue, since you can swap back to 1h/shield when needed for your support set 5 piece (like alkosh, powerful assault, etc.).

Even with concussion and offbalance from lightning staves, I still think ice staves are on par as a backbar for tanks. Blockade of frost is an AoE minor maim, snare, and immobilize now, so if your group has another source of concussed/offbalance (like a healer/dps running a lightning staff at all) you get far more benefit from using ice over lightning for your support weapon. That's even excluding the fact that it literally gives you double the resource pool to block with as well as a free ranged taunt.

Arobain wrote: »

but i'm sure to the nay sayers even if i posted videos of me tanking the hardest content, or me winning duels against others, it wont change their minds, and they'll just go

' so? i dont care, its still *** because i said so "

you guys say yall want the ice staff and ice mage builds to work and be good, but they are good, and you're just not willing to even try to make or use a build that revolves around it because its outside of the meta, or outside of your comfort zone, idk

Arent you the guy that said nightblade tanking is fine because you have a theorycrafted build that doesnt even run trials?

but isn't if the same if you want to use a fire staff because it is orange? why isnt that considered selfish? so because ice staff may become better than fire staff that's a problem? you wanting your orange or blue light instead of white is selfish too...it goes both ways bro...lol...im surprised you couldnt see that was faulty logic

jakeedmundson

Lynx7386 wrote: »

phileunderx2 wrote: »

I have made both of my mag wardens ice focused and I really am pleased with them. I wish the devs would take the taunt from the tri focus passive and make it a morph on one of the destro skills. Like on clench or impulse that then would probably put an end to someone inadvertently taking the taunt from a tank. Also it would make it to where you could tank with whatever kind of staff you want.

I dont.

See, currently frost staves having a taunt on heavy attack means that a tank back-barring one has a resource-free, long range taunt that restores magicka and gives them a damage shield.

The heavy attack taunt is also super useful in pvp when combined with tremorscale and knight-slayer (Tremorscale procs aoe damage and stun on taunt, and knight slayer deals 10% max health as damage with every heavy attack on a player), and you can throw vanguard's challenge in there if you're doing organized group pvp to reduce the target's damage by 50%. That is a hell of a lot of burst and utility from a free attack. Hell if you add in lotus from warden you even heal yourself and an ally with that heavy attack, or if you throw in molten armaments from a dragonknight you deal 40% more damage with that heavy attack.

People just cant look past the most basic applications of a skill or passive without their brain hurting. If you want to use an ice staff as dps, fine: but dont put points into tri-focus, and expect to do less damage than you would with a fire or lightning staff. You cant have survivability and utility on top of high damage, that's not how balance works.

Cool, because of one niche build that hardly anyone actually uses (and only in a limited application - pvp)... you want ice staves to continue being worthless.

Have you ever tried tanking with an ice staff in pve? You're weaker on that bar then your sword/shield bar, the taunt takes over 2 seconds to fire and is easily interrupted, and there are skills that actually help you regain much more magicka than a staff heavy attack.
I tried it and it was fun at first because it was different... but all things considered, it sucks. I've since moved back to dual sword/board bars.

Also, if you don't put points into tri-focus you're missing out a good amount of passive dps from inferno/lightning. Since 90% of players won't double bar an ice staff (although it would be fun if it worked). The "survive-ability" concept is 100% negligible. The shield you get from each heavy attack won't keep you alive anywhere and the time between getting the next shield is too long. (unless you just hold heavy attack over and over)

They need to choose a path with the ice staff. tank OR dps... "either or" is not working.

Minno

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

phileunderx2 wrote: »

I have made both of my mag wardens ice focused and I really am pleased with them. I wish the devs would take the taunt from the tri focus passive and make it a morph on one of the destro skills. Like on clench or impulse that then would probably put an end to someone inadvertently taking the taunt from a tank. Also it would make it to where you could tank with whatever kind of staff you want.

I dont.

See, currently frost staves having a taunt on heavy attack means that a tank back-barring one has a resource-free, long range taunt that restores magicka and gives them a damage shield.

The heavy attack taunt is also super useful in pvp when combined with tremorscale and knight-slayer (Tremorscale procs aoe damage and stun on taunt, and knight slayer deals 10% max health as damage with every heavy attack on a player), and you can throw vanguard's challenge in there if you're doing organized group pvp to reduce the target's damage by 50%. That is a hell of a lot of burst and utility from a free attack. Hell if you add in lotus from warden you even heal yourself and an ally with that heavy attack, or if you throw in molten armaments from a dragonknight you deal 40% more damage with that heavy attack.

People just cant look past the most basic applications of a skill or passive without their brain hurting. If you want to use an ice staff as dps, fine: but dont put points into tri-focus, and expect to do less damage than you would with a fire or lightning staff. You cant have survivability and utility on top of high damage, that's not how balance works.

Cool, because of one niche build that hardly anyone actually uses (and only in a limited application - pvp)... you want ice staves to continue being worthless.

Have you ever tried tanking with an ice staff in pve? You're weaker on that bar then your sword/shield bar, the taunt takes over 2 seconds to fire and is easily interrupted, and there are skills that actually help you regain much more magicka than a staff heavy attack.
I tried it and it was fun at first because it was different... but all things considered, it sucks. I've since moved back to dual sword/board bars.

Also, if you don't put points into tri-focus you're missing out a good amount of passive dps from inferno/lightning. Since 90% of players won't double bar an ice staff (although it would be fun if it worked). The "survive-ability" concept is 100% negligible. The shield you get from each heavy attack won't keep you alive anywhere and the time between getting the next shield is too long. (unless you just hold heavy attack over and over)

They need to choose a path with the ice staff. tank OR dps... "either or" is not working.

They have chosen; it's defense oriented support weapon now. You trade 8% direct/AOE DMG buffs, burning/concussed effects and 12% heavy attack/100% nearby enemy buffs for 8% DMG reduced on target outgoing dmg, 36% block cost and 20% block mitigation, and staff granting you additional resists.

There might be things they need to work on, but otherwise ice is defensive weapon now. Get used to it and build for it.

jakeedmundson

Minno wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

phileunderx2 wrote: »

I have made both of my mag wardens ice focused and I really am pleased with them. I wish the devs would take the taunt from the tri focus passive and make it a morph on one of the destro skills. Like on clench or impulse that then would probably put an end to someone inadvertently taking the taunt from a tank. Also it would make it to where you could tank with whatever kind of staff you want.

I dont.

See, currently frost staves having a taunt on heavy attack means that a tank back-barring one has a resource-free, long range taunt that restores magicka and gives them a damage shield.

The heavy attack taunt is also super useful in pvp when combined with tremorscale and knight-slayer (Tremorscale procs aoe damage and stun on taunt, and knight slayer deals 10% max health as damage with every heavy attack on a player), and you can throw vanguard's challenge in there if you're doing organized group pvp to reduce the target's damage by 50%. That is a hell of a lot of burst and utility from a free attack. Hell if you add in lotus from warden you even heal yourself and an ally with that heavy attack, or if you throw in molten armaments from a dragonknight you deal 40% more damage with that heavy attack.

People just cant look past the most basic applications of a skill or passive without their brain hurting. If you want to use an ice staff as dps, fine: but dont put points into tri-focus, and expect to do less damage than you would with a fire or lightning staff. You cant have survivability and utility on top of high damage, that's not how balance works.

Cool, because of one niche build that hardly anyone actually uses (and only in a limited application - pvp)... you want ice staves to continue being worthless.

Have you ever tried tanking with an ice staff in pve? You're weaker on that bar then your sword/shield bar, the taunt takes over 2 seconds to fire and is easily interrupted, and there are skills that actually help you regain much more magicka than a staff heavy attack.
I tried it and it was fun at first because it was different... but all things considered, it sucks. I've since moved back to dual sword/board bars.

Also, if you don't put points into tri-focus you're missing out a good amount of passive dps from inferno/lightning. Since 90% of players won't double bar an ice staff (although it would be fun if it worked). The "survive-ability" concept is 100% negligible. The shield you get from each heavy attack won't keep you alive anywhere and the time between getting the next shield is too long. (unless you just hold heavy attack over and over)

They need to choose a path with the ice staff. tank OR dps... "either or" is not working.

They have chosen; it's defense oriented support weapon now. You trade 8% direct/AOE DMG buffs, burning/concussed effects and 12% heavy attack/100% nearby enemy buffs for 8% DMG reduced on target outgoing dmg, 36% block cost and 20% block mitigation, and staff granting you additional resists.

There might be things they need to work on, but otherwise ice is defensive weapon now. Get used to it and build for it.

I understand what the differences are.... the entire point my post was to show that the ice staff sucks for dps AND tanking.
If they want it to be a tank weapon, then they need to change it more. The only "defensive" thing about it is that you block using magicka instead of stamina. that isn't enough to make it worth using.

Personally i would like to see it as a dps choice and change the frost skills to be a little more unique. Since that won't happen... again, they need to make it more attractive to tanks.

Lynx7386

Maybe it isn't a dps or tank weapon. Maybe its a support weapon.

Open your box and think outside of it for a change.

jakeedmundson

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Maybe it isn't a dps or tank weapon. Maybe its a support weapon.

Open your box and think outside of it for a change.

What is it supporting? Any debuff or CC that the ice staff can do already comes from other sources and is usually out matched.

I guess i don't understand how anyone thinks this weapon is useful. Fun? sure, it can be for solo play... but viable for any job choice? not quite.

Minno

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Maybe it isn't a dps or tank weapon. Maybe its a support weapon.

Open your box and think outside of it for a change.

What is it supporting? Any debuff or CC that the ice staff can do already comes from other sources and is usually out matched.

I guess i don't understand how anyone thinks this weapon is useful. Fun? sure, it can be for solo play... but viable for any job choice? not quite.

Ranged spamable root that can replace force pulse if you get the master staff. Since most builds don't slot snare/root immunity, this is arguably BiS for builds looking to cause Stam drain on enemies.

Aoe snare that can immobilze chilled enemies. Charged trait stafg+ direct Attack + frost enchant can increase the chance to cause chilled status effect with an uptime of more than 70% (searched this info for charged staff threads).

Armor buffs plus blocking replaces sNB for some setups/content. Allows certain builds the ability to slot dual weld yet still retain the benefits of running staff (backbar AOE, heavy attack Regen, ele drain + 5280 debuff for backbar offense + Regen boost). This is why you run ice staff staff.

Chilled debuff grants minor maim. If you use force pulse as your spamable, you'll be throwing this status effect around like candy replacing some sets/abilities depending your build/class.

Lynx7386

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Maybe it isn't a dps or tank weapon. Maybe its a support weapon.

Open your box and think outside of it for a change.

What is it supporting? Any debuff or CC that the ice staff can do already comes from other sources and is usually out matched.

I guess i don't understand how anyone thinks this weapon is useful. Fun? sure, it can be for solo play... but viable for any job choice? not quite.

Look at it this way:
In the current tank meta, tanks do not run dual shield bars; they run shield front bar and lightning staff back bar. Yes, tanks are using a purely dps weapon. This is done primarily for two reasons:
1. Blockade of storms sets concussed enemies off balance, so a tank running this on back bar procs off balance to improve group damage via exploiter.
2. Wall of elements (with any staff type) will proc your front bar enchants when you weapon swap, so having it available means greater uptime on the crusher enchant.

Now, with the dragon bones update the off balance status effect has a 20 second cool down and only a 5 second duration. This means it is going to only boost damage by 10% 25% of the time, amounting to less than 2.5% damage increase overall (less because you will no longer be able to have a prime rotation going during off balance for damage dealers in the raid).

That said, most healers and magicka dps also back bar a lighting staff as-is, so with the new cool down limitation there is absolutely no reason for a tank to run it other than point #2 above, and the wall of elements crusher application can be used with any staff type.


So as a tank, you can run a lightning staff back bar to give maybe a 2-2.5% damage increase to the group which your healer and dps are probably already providing anyways, or you can run an ice staff.

With an ice staff on the back bar, you sacrifice less resistance while on the back bar due to frost staves giving armor and allowing you to keep blocking at full strength so you don't risk getting bursted while on the back bar. You gain the ability to apply minor maim without needing another source for it (assuming you don't run heroic slash, this primarily benefits wardens who get heroism from shimmering shield), a long with an aoe snare and root. Additionally, you need less stamina sustain because you can now turn magicka into blocking power directly, allowing stamina to recover.

In addition you gain a (albeit situational) free long range taunt, removing the need to slot inner fire (an extremely expensive ranged taunt). This means more space on your bar for other support abilities without losing the ability to taunt ranged targets when necessary.

All that and you still get the same crusher uptime benefit from blockade that you would with a lightning staff or fire staff

To me, those benefits outweigh the loss of 2.5% or less damage, which again will be covered by dps now anyhow. What else are you going to run on a back bar other than a second 1h/shield which offers nothing your front bar doesn't?


The point is, frost staves are an option for many builds now where they weren't before. Anyone who wants to run an ice dps setup can still do so by avoiding the tri focus passive, but they'll get the same treatment as 2h dps or bow main dps - they aren't optimal trials setups. That doesn't stop people from running those setups and still succeeding in 90% of game content.

brandonv516

Arobain wrote: »

sigh, i get about 30k wards, i have tanked with this build, how is it hard for my healer if i rarely ever get my ward down? i heal myself, if you want to have a civil discussion about my build instead of simply trying to assume how it does, how about we have that, because you are honestly completely wrong about the build, yet i know you're an elitist that think they can absolutely say what a build is without even seeing it

newsflash, if you are build revolves around using wards for survival, there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON whatsoever to put any points at all into health, your wards ARE your health, wards do not scale on health, they purely scale on max mag, and thats it, so tell me the point of investing any points into health, if my wards are up 24/7? yes the minotaurs mega hit kills me, >>>> IF <<<<< my ward is down without me paying attention ( only if it decays due to time ) and yes the minotaur's hit drains my ward, almost completely, but thats why i simply click my ' 4 ' button and reapply it, the minotaur hit DOES NOT kill me through my ward, and it barely even touches my health

but like i said in my pervious post

>>>>>>>but i'm sure to the nay sayers even if i posted videos of me tanking the hardest content, or me winning duels against others, it wont change their minds, and they'll just go

' so? i dont care, its still *** because i said so "

Stopped reading at 30k wards. The image you showed had 34k magicka. I'd love to know how you get those massive shields.