Is Decisive Trait Worthwhile? ~Tay's Ultimate Generation Simulator~

Taylor_MB

~ Introduction ~

This simulator will help you determine what sources of ultimate generation pair effectively with a decisive traited weapon, assist in identifying any under performing sources, and allow you to accurately theorycraft with ultimate generation. The editable Google Doc linked below allows you to select what sources of ultimate generation you want calculated, set individual uptimes and proc frequencies, and clearly illustrates the effect a 1H or 2H decisive traited weapon will have on specific setups.

Editable Google Doc
(go to sheet 16)

TL;DR

Decisive traited weapon(s) only works with sources of ultimate that tick frequently (even if for a small amount). Decisive gives a x% chance to gain a single ultimate on every instance of ultimate gain. As such it pairs best with Tava's Favor and Minor Heroism which tick every 1sec and 1.5sec respectively (however even in this best case scenario it still only increases ultimate gain by 8%). It does NOT work efficiently with Bloodspawn, WW Hide or any form of class passive or skill that generates ultimate.

~ Video Guide to Simulator and Analysis ~

(same thing below in text)

https://youtu.be/e0DHJorzn5w

~ How to Guide ~

1) Open up the simulator with this link.
2) Values marked in red are for you to input.


3) Mark "y" or "n" to include or exclude sources from analysis. Enter appropriate up times. Where an up time is filled as "n/a" enter the frequency that source occurs in seconds.

"Instances of Ult Gain" is the most important value in determining the effectiveness of a decisive traited weapon (higher value the better).

4) Examine your results to determine if a decisive traited weapon adds significant enough ultimate generation to your build.

~ Analysis ~

Decisive has a x% chance to gain an additional ultimate every instance of ultimate gain. As such decisive works best with ultimate sources that tick frequently for small amounts (like Minor Heroism) rather than infrequently but large amounts (like Bloodspawn). Below is a cross section of different ultimate sources combinations and the resulting affect a decisive traited weapon will have.



As you can see from the above examples, decisive has a rather limited application where the results are significant enough to justify. Even with 5 sources of ultimate generation a legendary 2H decisive weapon will still only add 1.2 ultimate per second. Whether it is right for your build or not requires you to experiment with the simulator and input your exact build.

~ Conclusion ~

Hope that helped, let me know if you've got any questions or feedback. I deliberately didn't include Asylum 2H into the spreadsheet as its proc conditions didn't really fit with the layout. If you wanted to add it in, simply lower the value of 'Combat Frenzy' to compensate for the additional ultimate you would otherwise get from a kill.

Laters,
Tay

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Tl;Dr garbage trait is garbage?

Ragnarock41

decisive is utter garbage. Not only you lose stats for the trait but you also don't gain too much from it.

Still, good post for the curious people out there.

ccfeeling

Best invention from combat team , yahoo~

Solariken

So what you're saying is, for a Shalk Exo set magwarden spamming Shimmy Shield and Inviggy Drain, Decisive is gonna be perty gewd.

Taylor_MB

@Solariken

Major Heroism = 75%
Minor Heroism = 100%
Savage beast = 100%
Invigorating Drain = every 10secs



So still only getting 1ult per second from Decisive. However if you are back baring that on a resto (or s+b) with Invigorating Drain and Shimmering Shield on that bar and still using an offensive trait front bar, that is a really potent combination.

Solariken

Taylor_MB wrote: »

@Solariken

Major Heroism = 75%
Savage beast = 100%
Invigorating Drain = every 10secs



So still only getting 1ult per second from Decisive. However if you are back baring that on a resto (or s+b) with Invigorating Drain and Shimmering Shield on that bar and still using an offensive trait front bar, that is a really potent combination.

I don't think this includes Shalk Exoskeleton (Minor Heroism). Also, Invig Drain is a spammable 2 ult per sec (separate from Major/Minor buffs)

Taylor_MB

@Solariken
That includes Minor Heroism, forgot to mention it, edited above post.

Doesn't Invigorating Drain give 5 Ult every 1 second for 3 seconds? I just chose every 10secs out of thin air, input how frequently you use the skill for a more accurate result.

sneakymitchell

@Taylor_MB so having minor heroism is still ok for a desicive weapon for a DK that relies on ulti for resources?

Tasear

It's quite useful for healers.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Tasear wrote: »

It's quite useful for healers.

I completely disagree. Powered, percise or nirn would would be better, with infused being the best as far as I can tell. Decisive scales with the amount of ulti you generate, I figured it out for a temp once, but for other classes, it took generating the 250 ulti you need for warhorn from 83 seconds down to 73. In a perfect senario. With a sorc healer, who doesn't have a passive that generates ulti like dawns wraith, decisive has less of an impact, 71 seconds on a sorc, cause warhorn costs 213 to 63 seconds. Is that 8 seconds sooner warhorn, in perfect conditions keeping in mind that it is a 40% chance to gain ulti, worth using over all the other traits I mentioned?

Taylor_MB

@sneakymitchell
It's hard to tell as making a direct comparison between traits is very difficult.

For comparison sake though-
Base + 1H Decisive + Minor Heroism
gives the exact same ult generation as
Base + Werewolf Hide

So even a 1H decisive and minor heroism can replace a 5pc purely for ultimate generation purposes. Being a DK, or otherwise running an ultimate dependent build, gives even more reason to run decisive. In saying that, an infused stamina return enchant would probably give you higher resource return on one stat, but lower on others.

Sorry I can't give an exact answer, but yes, decisive does work best on DK's with minor heroism (even better if you can add Tava's Favor), just have to decide if it's worth dropping another trait for.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

@Taylor_MB first, thank you for making this thread, it is very useful. It is better to use dragongaurd on a dk, as you get the full resources from battle roar regardless of the current cost. Now the only role that would be running a ulti gen build would be a tank and a tank needs to be running a crusher enchant, with infused being the best trait there. So decisive is no good there either.

Taylor_MB

@Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
I default to a PvP perspective unless people specifically ask otherwise. So in PvE yeah, nothing beats infused torugs crusher.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

@Taylor_MB I see, it is funny though, I default to a Pve perspective.

Tasear

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

It's quite useful for healers.

I completely disagree. Powered, percise or nirn would would be better, with infused being the best as far as I can tell. Decisive scales with the amount of ulti you generate, I figured it out for a temp once, but for other classes, it took generating the 250 ulti you need for warhorn from 83 seconds down to 73. In a perfect senario. With a sorc healer, who doesn't have a passive that generates ulti like dawns wraith, decisive has less of an impact, 71 seconds on a sorc, cause warhorn costs 213 to 63 seconds. Is that 8 seconds sooner warhorn, in perfect conditions keeping in mind that it is a 40% chance to gain ulti, worth using over all the other traits I mentioned?

My consideration was for my overlord along with we are overhealing for most part?

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Tasear wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

It's quite useful for healers.

I completely disagree. Powered, percise or nirn would would be better, with infused being the best as far as I can tell. Decisive scales with the amount of ulti you generate, I figured it out for a temp once, but for other classes, it took generating the 250 ulti you need for warhorn from 83 seconds down to 73. In a perfect senario. With a sorc healer, who doesn't have a passive that generates ulti like dawns wraith, decisive has less of an impact, 71 seconds on a sorc, cause warhorn costs 213 to 63 seconds. Is that 8 seconds sooner warhorn, in perfect conditions keeping in mind that it is a 40% chance to gain ulti, worth using over all the other traits I mentioned?

My consideration was for my overlord along with we are overheating for most part?

I am sorry, I have no idea what you are saying here, what do you mean by "my overlord" and and "we are overheating"?

If you mean overload, I am pretty sure you don't Regen ulti when you are in overload, which makes this trait completely worthless there.

sneakymitchell

@Taylor_MB ok. It would be useful on my werewolf for pvp it helps give the ult out faster for it. I use leap as well but that’s ok to get it. Plus with decisive that leap will help me with the o *** situation where I need the resources and heal. Don’t forget once that leap activates the healing recived be increase by 12% during that leap duration.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

sneakymitchell wrote: »

@Taylor_MB ok. It would be useful on my werewolf for pvp it helps give the ult out faster for it. I use leap as well but that’s ok to get it. Plus with decisive that leap will help me with the o *** situation where I need the resources and heal. Don’t forget once that leap activates the healing recived be increase by 12% during that leap duration.

You don't Regen ulti in werewolf form. So the trait is completely worthless there. Unless you have decisive on your bar that has leap and a different trait on the bar that has ww form, that would work.

Tasear

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

It's quite useful for healers.

I completely disagree. Powered, percise or nirn would would be better, with infused being the best as far as I can tell. Decisive scales with the amount of ulti you generate, I figured it out for a temp once, but for other classes, it took generating the 250 ulti you need for warhorn from 83 seconds down to 73. In a perfect senario. With a sorc healer, who doesn't have a passive that generates ulti like dawns wraith, decisive has less of an impact, 71 seconds on a sorc, cause warhorn costs 213 to 63 seconds. Is that 8 seconds sooner warhorn, in perfect conditions keeping in mind that it is a 40% chance to gain ulti, worth using over all the other traits I mentioned?

My consideration was for my overlord along with we are overheating for most part?

I am sorry, I have no idea what you are saying here, what do you mean by "my overlord" and and "we are overheating"?

If you mean overload, I am pretty sure you don't Regen ulti when you are in overload, which makes this trait completely worthless there.

I was tried at time and autocorrect got me. It's fixed now. But my point was there no point in extra heals, but more ultimate gain allows for get overlord faster, werewolf faster, and war horn faster.

sneakymitchell

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

sneakymitchell wrote: »

@Taylor_MB ok. It would be useful on my werewolf for pvp it helps give the ult out faster for it. I use leap as well but that’s ok to get it. Plus with decisive that leap will help me with the o *** situation where I need the resources and heal. Don’t forget once that leap activates the healing recived be increase by 12% during that leap duration.

You don't Regen ulti in werewolf form. So the trait is completely worthless there. Unless you have decisive on your bar that has leap and a different trait on the bar that has ww form, that would work.

I’m talking about using it off bar. Sure lose DPS on my leap but I can get it little quicker