ESO is at a crossroads

Minyassa

I'm confused. Are they actually doing away with the current system entirely, where you can dye your equipment outfit and costumes for free, I mean are they now going to charge us for dyeing anything at all ever? I had thought the outfit system was just a thing they were adding.

Nihility42

Minyassa wrote: »

I'm confused. Are they actually doing away with the current system entirely, where you can dye your equipment outfit and costumes for free, I mean are they now going to charge us for dyeing anything at all ever? I had thought the outfit system was just a thing they were adding.

All previous functionality is exactly the same. The new features are additions, like you thought.

rustic_potato

Meh as long as combat is not affect by microtransactions I frankly don't care if they charge 10k crowns for each cosmetic purchase. Cos there are people who will buy it and it sustains the development of the game.

Bevik

rustic_potato wrote: »

Meh as long as combat is not affect by microtransactions I frankly don't care if they charge 10k crowns for each cosmetic purchase. Cos there are people who will buy it and it sustains the development of the game.

Exactly lol. People complain about cosmetics being expensive even if you can buy them with in-game currency. Hell you people can never ever be satisfied.

Have you ever played a p2w game? You all gonna cry hard then. Be very very happy all the Crown Store items are pure cosmetics.

MercTheMage

Wait we have to pay to dye *** now? wtf

Doctordarkspawn

MercTheMage wrote: »

Wait we have to pay to dye *** now? wtf

Could be wrong, but I'm not sure we gotta pay to do that. Just to dye any outfit slots.

Which is the only thing is going to be using, so.

Elsonso

kikkehs wrote: »

I'm amazed over what people can complain about..

25 000g for a FULL outfit, with all colours, all the most expensive slots. You do not have to pay anything untill your DONE with your outfit and colours. you can mix and smash as you want before you EVER pay a gold.

WHY THE **** ARE YOU COMPLAINING?!

Nothing is free; ingame, or in real life!

For me, it isn't about the amount of gold, it is really about the fact that there is a direct gold charge. Particularly where dyes are concerned. When a person can craft a set of armor that (almost) exactly matches the Outfit they want to create, and spend no gold doing it, why should someone be asked spend gold to create a faux overlay? The illusion costs more than the real thing.

It is just an inconsistency in the game. I think they had other options.

They really don't have to apply the gold sink to dyes. They could drop that and they would probably never notice, on their end. This is the established policy in the game, and they could have just stuck with it.

Outfit Styles are a more interesting situation, since they are giving away the motifs to every character on the account. This lowers a major bar in the game, and that contributes to the gold charge for the style. I have mixed feelings about the account wide motifs. For the gold charge, however, they did have a few different options in how to monetize it. The gold charge adds value to the Tokens because the Tokens are nothing more than a cash-to-gold analog. Were it not for the gold charge, no one would need Tokens. As it is, even with the gold charge, I figure that Tokens are valuable as Crown Crate filler and that is where the majority of them will be obtained. Of course, they will heavily tune the drop rate to prevent stockpiling. The key to not needing a gold charge for Styles rests in making Tokens something other than a replacement for gold.

The real jewel in the Outfit System is the Outfit Slot. It is a one time purchase, but we can buy up to 135 of them per account. On top of that, it is the gift that keeps on giving. Tokens, that is. Slots multiply the potential demand for Tokens. To make Tokens valuable, without a gold charge, we go back to a suggestion in the forum from a couple weeks ago and make Tokens more than just an analog to gold. Make them have value that gold cannot easily replace. Make Tokens be able to be used to create an outfit with any Style, and maybe even any Dye. No matter what colors are known. No matter what motifs are known. It might require that they drop the account-wide motifs, though.

Of course, there is the risk that this could make Tokens too powerful. Without numbers and analysis of Live data, it is really hard to tell.

Naturally, they are not going to be doing this. They have an answer and they like that answer, so there is no need for them to consider other answers. Besides, they already considered this answer (most likely) and discarded it, for some reason that is outside of my view.

But, they could probably still drop the Dye cost to ZERO without breaking their model.

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

its not live yet and they said on ESO live prices can change before live so ...

Possible, but my feeling is that they were talking about the Outfit Station voucher cost, not the cost to make an outfit, and they already dropped that price. The cost to make the outfit is directly tied to Token demand, so they will really have to think hard about that. Unless there is a lower cost that was acceptable before going to PTS, the cost to create or change an outfit is likely final.

Edit: words.

Slick_007

how is the OP's majorly incorrect post a crossroads for ESO?
do people posting fake news turn left and everyone else go right?

Asardes

You pay in game currency. That is extremely easy to come by and after a while there is little to spend it on. The game needs more gold sinks and outfit is one of them.

code65536

1. The game has too few gold sinks. We need more gold sinks, not less. I fully support the gold cost of the outfit system and think that it's necessary and healthy for the economy.
2. I fully expect the outfit system to bite into costume sales. They basically gave players a design-your-own-costume system that uses in-game currency.
3. The gold cost is "per-use" only if you define "use" as the creation or modification of an outfit. This is like saying that each time you buy a new costume from the store, that's a "use". Putting on and taking off the outfit is completely free.
4. Once people have settled on a look that they like, they probably will not be making many changes to it.
5. But if people do want to adjust it, it's just a gold cost. Just like skill respec, attribute respec, and CP respec. Do you lodge similar complaints about the cost of respecs between PvE and PvP?

TheMystid

Everything related solely to esthetic should be payed.

I'm much more against the 3k gold for cp refund, but that's another story.

helediron

I am grinning. I used to charge 5k per piece = 25k from 5-piece set.

The real crossroad is that the game has now changed from challenging social and group MMO to Elder Sims. Instead of paying to a skilled crafter you pay now to the system.

Elsonso

code65536 wrote: »

1. The game has too few gold sinks. We need more gold sinks, not less. I fully support the gold cost of the outfit system and think that it's necessary and healthy for the economy.
2. I fully expect the outfit system to bite into costume sales. They basically gave players a design-your-own-costume system that uses in-game currency.
3. The gold cost is "per-use" only if you define "use" as the creation or modification of an outfit. This is like saying that each time you buy a new costume from the store, that's a "use". Putting on and taking off the outfit is completely free.
4. Once people have settled on a look that they like, they probably will not be making many changes to it.
5. But if people do want to adjust it, it's just a gold cost. Just like skill respec, attribute respec, and CP respec. Do you lodge similar complaints about the cost of respecs between PvE and PvP?

Numbers 1 and 4 contradict each other. Gold sinks need to be frequently used. Just charging them 25k gold once a year (for example) is pointless, as a gold sink.

As a gold sink, this under performs. If they really needed a gold sink, it would have been better if they had charged to teleport to houses.

code65536

lordrichter wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

1. The game has too few gold sinks. We need more gold sinks, not less. I fully support the gold cost of the outfit system and think that it's necessary and healthy for the economy.
2. I fully expect the outfit system to bite into costume sales. They basically gave players a design-your-own-costume system that uses in-game currency.
3. The gold cost is "per-use" only if you define "use" as the creation or modification of an outfit. This is like saying that each time you buy a new costume from the store, that's a "use". Putting on and taking off the outfit is completely free.
4. Once people have settled on a look that they like, they probably will not be making many changes to it.
5. But if people do want to adjust it, it's just a gold cost. Just like skill respec, attribute respec, and CP respec. Do you lodge similar complaints about the cost of respecs between PvE and PvP?

Numbers 1 and 4 contradict each other. Gold sinks need to be frequently used. Just charging them 25k gold once a year (for example) is pointless, as a gold sink.

As a gold sink, this under performs. If they really needed a gold sink, it would have been better if they had charged to teleport to houses.

I didn't say that this gold sink was sufficient. Just like the housing and bank/bag gold sinks, it's mostly one-and-done. But it's better than nothing, and at this point any additional gold sink is welcome.

Elsonso

code65536 wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

1. The game has too few gold sinks. We need more gold sinks, not less. I fully support the gold cost of the outfit system and think that it's necessary and healthy for the economy.
2. I fully expect the outfit system to bite into costume sales. They basically gave players a design-your-own-costume system that uses in-game currency.
3. The gold cost is "per-use" only if you define "use" as the creation or modification of an outfit. This is like saying that each time you buy a new costume from the store, that's a "use". Putting on and taking off the outfit is completely free.
4. Once people have settled on a look that they like, they probably will not be making many changes to it.
5. But if people do want to adjust it, it's just a gold cost. Just like skill respec, attribute respec, and CP respec. Do you lodge similar complaints about the cost of respecs between PvE and PvP?

Numbers 1 and 4 contradict each other. Gold sinks need to be frequently used. Just charging them 25k gold once a year (for example) is pointless, as a gold sink.

As a gold sink, this under performs. If they really needed a gold sink, it would have been better if they had charged to teleport to houses.

I didn't say that this gold sink was sufficient. Just like the housing and bank/bag gold sinks, it's mostly one-and-done. But it's better than nothing, and at this point any additional gold sink is welcome.

Just charge 1000g (up to available banked/carried gold) at each character load and be done with it? When they need more gold sink, they could just randomly drop people.

SickDuck

Paying with gold is not a micro transaction! Buying crowns and/or paying with crowns is. Also it is only forced to use MTs when the service cannot be bought with in game resources for a reasonable price. And by reasonable I mean something that can be gathered without significantly altering the game play routine of the average player. Spending 28k max. once in a while is not a game changing event. It’s the price of a fee stack of potions one can burn on a single day.

Dying system is the only craft related system that is free, everything else costs something per each use. You can argue with the cost but it totally make sense to have some cost per use.

cbro72

In my humble opinion changing your outfit in the outfit station and being charged gold to do so is comparable to how we pay gold to change anything in this game. Like our skill points, champion points, and attributes.
Now you can say that is different because those things effect you character’s game play. Where as clothing is just for looks.
Either way, personally I liked the idea of using style material instead of gold.
Also the gold cost to change your champ points is what? 3k gold? Maybe use that as a benchmark for outfit change cost. Just a thought.

Recremen

code65536 wrote: »

1. The game has too few gold sinks. We need more gold sinks, not less. I fully support the gold cost of the outfit system and think that it's necessary and healthy for the economy.
2. I fully expect the outfit system to bite into costume sales. They basically gave players a design-your-own-costume system that uses in-game currency.
3. The gold cost is "per-use" only if you define "use" as the creation or modification of an outfit. This is like saying that each time you buy a new costume from the store, that's a "use". Putting on and taking off the outfit is completely free.
4. Once people have settled on a look that they like, they probably will not be making many changes to it.
5. But if people do want to adjust it, it's just a gold cost. Just like skill respec, attribute respec, and CP respec. Do you lodge similar complaints about the cost of respecs between PvE and PvP?

@code65536

1. The game does not have too few gold sinks. Housing alone is a neverending gold sink, plus there are loads of other capped gold sinks like mount training and bag space. Also if you're familiar with economic analysis at all, it's plain as day that these gold sinks are sufficient. If we needed more gold sinks then there would be runaway price inflation on the guild traders. Instead, we're seeing the opposite of that. Prices are steadily going down. So why do you actually think we need more gold sinks? Facts, or just a feeling you have?
2. I have no idea why people think outfits would hurt costume sales. You can't just make an outfit that's a "good enough" replacement for a costume. Armor motifs aren't that versatile. We're still going to be paying for the unique aesthetics that costumes bring.
3. How on earth else would you define a use of the outfit system? Why would you not consider outfit creation a use? You have your comparison completely wrong. Getting charged to create a new outfit would be like getting charged to create a new hat/mount/skin/costume combo. These outfit styles are unlocked in our collections tab, if they were to behave like normal collections items then we'd be able to switch to them for free, on a whim, wherever we want. Since we instead are charged to switch to them, it is completely logical to call it a "per-use cost".
4. That's only true for some players. Plenty of us like changing things up frequently. That's why it's a big deal. We're getting double-dipped on, and hard.
5. As I made abundantly clear in my post, the problem is the new pricing model where you have to pay a per-use cost instead of an up-front cost to unlock it forever. If we had to pay every time we wanted to change our mounts, our body markings, our costumes, etc., then I would literally have nothing to comment on. It's foolish to compare a cosmetic system to skill and attribute respecs, which have always incurred a per-use cost. I've been comparing the new cosmetic system to the old cosmetic systems. I couldn't possibly be more clear.