The Scalebreaker DLC game pack and Update 23 base-game patch are now available to test on the PTS! Read the full patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/pts

Powerlash & Searing Strike 3.3.3

  • Savos_Saren
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    How many people actually tested mag Dk on PTS? Power Lash has less cooldown than on live (3 seconds instead of 5) and a healing tooltip close to Earthgore but somehow mag Dks feel nerfed and complain about Lash being dodgeable (yeah, a 29k heal and 15k damage ability which is almost spammable definitely needs to be undodgeable as well).

    It doesn't matter how much ZOS will buff mag Dk, it won't be enough to satisfy the mag Dk community unless they can play their "stand your ground" gameplay again which means playing a permablocking walking batswarm who is wiping zergs (without using a gapcloser of course).

    How many HoTs do mDKs have? Think about that. Now, think about how mDKs rely on their burst healing to keep them alive...

    ...now if their "uber great" burst healing is now dodgeable- they can't be healed. RIP

    Considering mDKs don't have an execute- why wouldn't they be afforded an undodogeable Powerlash?

    But then again, I can see how a Bosmer Stamina NB (with an empowering gapcloser, powerful CC, powerful spammable attack that causes Major Fracture, very cheap ultimate that causes Major Defile, an execute, has HoTs, AND can reset the fight with a single cloak) wouldn't understand. ;)

    I have a Bosmer StamBlade as well.
    Want to enjoy the game more? Try both PvP (crybabies) and PvE (carebears). You'll get a better perspective on everyone's opinion.

    PC NA AD
    Savos Saren
  • Sharee
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    How many people actually tested mag Dk on PTS? Power Lash has less cooldown than on live (3 seconds instead of 5) and a healing tooltip close to Earthgore but somehow mag Dks feel nerfed and complain about Lash being dodgeable (yeah, a 29k heal and 15k damage ability which is almost spammable definitely needs to be undodgeable as well).

    I don't know how many actually tested on PTS, but i do know one that didn't read the thread:

    - powerlash has no cooldown on live at all
    - the healing tooltip was not mentioned in patch notes, and thus is believed to be a bug.
  • DDuke
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    Here we go again... and I already have to correct things.
    Sharee wrote: »
    How many people actually tested mag Dk on PTS? Power Lash has less cooldown than on live (3 seconds instead of 5) and a healing tooltip close to Earthgore but somehow mag Dks feel nerfed and complain about Lash being dodgeable (yeah, a 29k heal and 15k damage ability which is almost spammable definitely needs to be undodgeable as well).

    I don't know how many actually tested on PTS, but i do know one that didn't read the thread:

    - powerlash has no cooldown on live at all

    It has a de facto 5 second cooldown in PvP, since you can only set people off balance with Flame Lash every 5s (and it's always consumed). The cooldown is actually 7 seconds for builds that don't have space for Talons.

    Only exception to this were the lightning staff meme builds.
    Sharee wrote: »
    - the healing tooltip was not mentioned in patch notes, and thus is believed to be a bug.

    A bug... like Power Lash being undodgeable?
    ...now if their "uber great" burst healing is now dodgeable- they can't be healed. RIP

    You still get the healing on PTS, even if your target dodges the Power Lash.


    Bug or not, who knows - but the tooltip of Flame Lash doesn't say the heal is dependent on the Lash landing, just that you get X healing over 4 seconds when you cast the ability.
    Edited by DDuke on February 4, 2018 4:10PM
    Decimus (European Megaserver)
  • Ragnaroek93
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    How many people actually tested mag Dk on PTS? Power Lash has less cooldown than on live (3 seconds instead of 5) and a healing tooltip close to Earthgore but somehow mag Dks feel nerfed and complain about Lash being dodgeable (yeah, a 29k heal and 15k damage ability which is almost spammable definitely needs to be undodgeable as well).

    It doesn't matter how much ZOS will buff mag Dk, it won't be enough to satisfy the mag Dk community unless they can play their "stand your ground" gameplay again which means playing a permablocking walking batswarm who is wiping zergs (without using a gapcloser of course).

    How many HoTs do mDKs have? Think about that. Now, think about how mDKs rely on their burst healing to keep them alive...

    ...now if their "uber great" burst healing is now dodgeable- they can't be healed. RIP

    Considering mDKs don't have an execute- why wouldn't they be afforded an undodogeable Powerlash?

    But then again, I can see how a Bosmer Stamina NB (with an empowering gapcloser, powerful CC, powerful spammable attack that causes Major Fracture, very cheap ultimate that causes Major Defile, an execute, has HoTs, AND can reset the fight with a single cloak) wouldn't understand. ;)

    I have a Bosmer StamBlade as well.

    Their heal applies even if you dodge the Power Lash but you would know this if you would actually have tested mag Dk on PTS. But why should someone test if you can waste everyones time with mimimi posts as well.
    Sharee wrote: »
    How many people actually tested mag Dk on PTS? Power Lash has less cooldown than on live (3 seconds instead of 5) and a healing tooltip close to Earthgore but somehow mag Dks feel nerfed and complain about Lash being dodgeable (yeah, a 29k heal and 15k damage ability which is almost spammable definitely needs to be undodgeable as well).

    I don't know how many actually tested on PTS, but i do know one that didn't read the thread:

    - powerlash has no cooldown on live at all
    - the healing tooltip was not mentioned in patch notes, and thus is believed to be a bug.

    In PvP it has. And I'm looking forward to see another 15 threads of how ZOS only nerfs mag Dks if the healing from Power Lash gets fixed (sorry I meant nerfed) but I think that ZOS will release the skill in it's current state.
  • Sharee
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    How many people actually tested mag Dk on PTS? Power Lash has less cooldown than on live (3 seconds instead of 5) and a healing tooltip close to Earthgore but somehow mag Dks feel nerfed and complain about Lash being dodgeable (yeah, a 29k heal and 15k damage ability which is almost spammable definitely needs to be undodgeable as well).

    It doesn't matter how much ZOS will buff mag Dk, it won't be enough to satisfy the mag Dk community unless they can play their "stand your ground" gameplay again which means playing a permablocking walking batswarm who is wiping zergs (without using a gapcloser of course).

    How many HoTs do mDKs have? Think about that. Now, think about how mDKs rely on their burst healing to keep them alive...

    ...now if their "uber great" burst healing is now dodgeable- they can't be healed. RIP

    Considering mDKs don't have an execute- why wouldn't they be afforded an undodogeable Powerlash?

    But then again, I can see how a Bosmer Stamina NB (with an empowering gapcloser, powerful CC, powerful spammable attack that causes Major Fracture, very cheap ultimate that causes Major Defile, an execute, has HoTs, AND can reset the fight with a single cloak) wouldn't understand. ;)

    I have a Bosmer StamBlade as well.

    Their heal applies even if you dodge the Power Lash but you would know this if you would actually have tested mag Dk on PTS. But why should someone test if you can waste everyones time with mimimi posts as well.
    Sharee wrote: »
    How many people actually tested mag Dk on PTS? Power Lash has less cooldown than on live (3 seconds instead of 5) and a healing tooltip close to Earthgore but somehow mag Dks feel nerfed and complain about Lash being dodgeable (yeah, a 29k heal and 15k damage ability which is almost spammable definitely needs to be undodgeable as well).

    I don't know how many actually tested on PTS, but i do know one that didn't read the thread:

    - powerlash has no cooldown on live at all
    - the healing tooltip was not mentioned in patch notes, and thus is believed to be a bug.

    In PvP it has. And I'm looking forward to see another 15 threads of how ZOS only nerfs mag Dks if the healing from Power Lash gets fixed (sorry I meant nerfed) but I think that ZOS will release the skill in it's current state.

    No, it does not. The cooldown is on the flame lashes' ability to set targets off-balance, not on powerlash. But targets can be set off-balance by other means than just flame lash, in which case power lashes can be used more often than once every 5 seconds. Sometimes even spammed.
  • Savos_Saren
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    DDuke wrote: »
    Here we go again... and I already have to correct things.
    Sharee wrote: »
    How many people actually tested mag Dk on PTS? Power Lash has less cooldown than on live (3 seconds instead of 5) and a healing tooltip close to Earthgore but somehow mag Dks feel nerfed and complain about Lash being dodgeable (yeah, a 29k heal and 15k damage ability which is almost spammable definitely needs to be undodgeable as well).

    I don't know how many actually tested on PTS, but i do know one that didn't read the thread:

    - powerlash has no cooldown on live at all

    It has a de facto 5 second cooldown in PvP, since you can only set people off balance with Flame Lash every 5s (and it's always consumed). The cooldown is actually 7 seconds for builds that don't have space for Talons.

    Only exception to this were the lightning staff meme builds.
    Sharee wrote: »
    - the healing tooltip was not mentioned in patch notes, and thus is believed to be a bug.

    A bug... like Power Lash being undodgeable?
    ...now if their "uber great" burst healing is now dodgeable- they can't be healed. RIP

    You still get the healing on PTS, even if your target dodges the Power Lash.


    Bug or not, who knows - but the tooltip of Flame Lash doesn't say the heal is dependent on the Lash landing, just that you get X healing over 4 seconds when you cast the ability.

    Duke, aren't you the advocate for saying "Finally! The undodgable Powerlash bug is being fixed!" But now you're just going to roll with a 4 second bug on Powerlash?

    I even broke down the bug for you (and I reported it to ZoS)- it specifically comes from Searing Heat passive... which shouldn't be effecting Powerlash.

    What's sad is the fact that even though we reported this bug ON THE PTS FORUM- ZoS hasn't even acknowledged it yet. Why even bother?
    Want to enjoy the game more? Try both PvP (crybabies) and PvE (carebears). You'll get a better perspective on everyone's opinion.

    PC NA AD
    Savos Saren
  • ak_pvp
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    DDuke wrote: »
    Here we go again... and I already have to correct things.
    Sharee wrote: »
    How many people actually tested mag Dk on PTS? Power Lash has less cooldown than on live (3 seconds instead of 5) and a healing tooltip close to Earthgore but somehow mag Dks feel nerfed and complain about Lash being dodgeable (yeah, a 29k heal and 15k damage ability which is almost spammable definitely needs to be undodgeable as well).

    I don't know how many actually tested on PTS, but i do know one that didn't read the thread:

    - powerlash has no cooldown on live at all

    It has a de facto 5 second cooldown in PvP, since you can only set people off balance with Flame Lash every 5s (and it's always consumed). The cooldown is actually 7 seconds for builds that don't have space for Talons.

    Only exception to this were the lightning staff meme builds.
    Sharee wrote: »
    - the healing tooltip was not mentioned in patch notes, and thus is believed to be a bug.

    A bug... like Power Lash being undodgeable?
    ...now if their "uber great" burst healing is now dodgeable- they can't be healed. RIP

    You still get the healing on PTS, even if your target dodges the Power Lash.


    Bug or not, who knows - but the tooltip of Flame Lash doesn't say the heal is dependent on the Lash landing, just that you get X healing over 4 seconds when you cast the ability.

    The difference being that undodgable was a bug that was in game, vs PTS 4s heal, which is most likely going to be removed. One is actual loss of functionality, bug or not. As for the healing being dodgable, it probably won't change. Since its not like you are healing off the target. To be honest, I don't really see the logic behind it, sort of like the logic that throwing a rock at someone buffs you up.

    The death of the lightning staff meme builds really hurts for vMA, where it was one of the best ways to do it.
    MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
    Best houseknight EU.
  • Sharee
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    DDuke wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    - the healing tooltip was not mentioned in patch notes, and thus is believed to be a bug.

    A bug... like Power Lash being undodgeable?

    Correct me if i am wrong, but unlike the healing tooltip, power lash was never changed to be undodgeable without patch notes mentioning it. Thus, the analogy does not really fit.
  • DDuke
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    Sharee wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    - the healing tooltip was not mentioned in patch notes, and thus is believed to be a bug.

    A bug... like Power Lash being undodgeable?

    Correct me if i am wrong, but unlike the healing tooltip, power lash was never changed to be undodgeable without patch notes mentioning it. Thus, the analogy does not really fit.

    It was never meant to be undodgeable in the first place, it just took ZOS a long time to fix it. By your logic, they should bring back the hole under stairs at Aleswell they fixed in this patch because after being bugged a long time (since beta) it somehow became "a feature".

    In no patch was Power Lash ever "changed to be undodgeable", no such patch notes exist - it's a bug & always has been (much like Soul Harvest, which was also fixed in this patch).


    Even ZOS calls it a bug fix...
    Decimus (European Megaserver)
  • Sharee
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    DDuke wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    - the healing tooltip was not mentioned in patch notes, and thus is believed to be a bug.

    A bug... like Power Lash being undodgeable?

    Correct me if i am wrong, but unlike the healing tooltip, power lash was never changed to be undodgeable without patch notes mentioning it. Thus, the analogy does not really fit.

    It was never meant to be undodgeable in the first place, it just took ZOS a long time to fix it. By your logic, they should bring back the hole under stairs at Aleswell they fixed in this patch because after being bugged a long time (since beta) it somehow became "a feature".

    In no patch was Power Lash ever "changed to be undodgeable", no such patch notes exist - it's a bug & always has been (much like Soul Harvest, which was also fixed in this patch).


    Even ZOS calls it a bug fix...

    You are replying to my post like i said it was meant to be undodgeable. I did not say that. I merely observed that healing tooltip changed without a corresponding patch note, which means it was most likely not an intended change, and thus should not be used in statements like "why do you DK's complain when your heal has improved!", as observed earlier in the thread.

    Powerlash has never gone through such a change without a patch note, thus there could be some doubt as to whether it is intended or not(until ZOS' statement) - but not the extended heal. Thus, your analogy did not fit.

    And if you forgive me, your analogy with the aleswell stairs hole is also quite bad.

    There is absolutely no doubt in anyone's mind that a hole in geometry is a bug.
    On the other hand, an attack being undodgeable, when it can only follow after another attack which itself is dodgeable - that's an entirely reasonable thing to have in a game, and could easily be believed intentional, before the developers stated otherwise.
    Edited by Sharee on February 4, 2018 8:02PM
  • KaiserKnight
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    I'd like to clarify that the heal from powerlash only applies if the animation goes off before the ability is dodged. So the heal is not guaranteed as people have been reporting. Powerlash does not have a cooldown LIVE so it is a nerf now that it has a cooldown. I do believe a 3 second cooldown is reasonable but the cooldown should only occur once you have used the ability or the cooldown should be for each individual target set off balance.

    I would also like to thank everyone who has been helpful in providing feedback on the class, ideas for changes to dragonknight skills, and providing constructive content on this forum. Hopefully on Monday we will see some changes that can help our class in both PVP and PVE content. If we do not, we still have a week left before the release of Dragonbones. If we do not receive any desired changes on Monday do not waver, keep up the constructive posts on these forums because it is not over until the update is released. People will always attempt to derail these forums or complain about what we are doing here, because people naturally want their class to have an advantage over another so they will do everything in their power to ensure that changes like these stay in place. A select few individuals have made their ways to these forums only to complain, troll, and criticize others with the intention to fill the forums with drama so ZOS will disregard our suggestions. I ask that you all continue with constructive discussions, but do not feed these individuals the attention they are so desperately trying to receive.
    Edited by KaiserKnight on February 4, 2018 8:26PM
  • FlamingBeard
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    Power Lash should definitely not have a cooldown whatsoever if it stays dodgeable and especially if they make the healing fail if dodged.

    I would understand a cooldown if it were still undodgeable, but both together is way too much of a down-shift in usability.

    Intended or not, magDKs have built around Power Lash because it's their only consistent damage that doesn't drain them of half their Magicka in 2 or 3 uses like the resource-intensive skills already in their slots.

    If the current changes go live without cost reductions or buffs of one or two of DK's passives or skills or something, it's going to make it even more unseen in PvE and even less common in PvP than it already is.

    EDIT: and again this comes not from somebody who plays magDK (because I converted mine to stamDK pve DPS months ago), but from someone who actually understands their place and role in PvP, and that they are not even nearly as powerful or pose anywhere close to as much of a threat as other class specs who these complainers have not mentioned once.
    Edited by FlamingBeard on February 4, 2018 8:32PM
  • DDuke
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    I'd like to clarify that the heal from powerlash only applies if the animation goes off before the ability is dodged. So the heal is not guaranteed as people have been reporting.

    And I'd like to clarify that this is a thing that already on live and happens if you try to Power Lash (or any other skill) someone who's not in your LOS or someone who is just barely out of range when you use the skill. On Live, the ability also doesn't heal (or deal damage) in these situations despite the animation playing.

    Then there's also this: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/391301/exploit-can-we-talk-about-that-shady-thing-that-stamina-melee-builds-do/p1

    It has nothing to do with dodging & I tested Power Lash on PTS specifically by hitting a dodging player after he initiated dodge roll, so yeah... I guess that's debunked.
    Powerlash does not have a cooldown LIVE so it is a nerf now that it has a cooldown.

    Convenient way to spin it. On live, you can only set a target off balance once every 5-7 seconds with Flame Lash and the off balance is consumed when Power Lash is used.

    The only exception to this were the lightning staff meme builds used by maybe 3-4 people, and even those builds weren't really "spamming" Power Lash as they need to refresh Off Balance every time someone steps out of the WoE.

    Example: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/393615/video-a-goodbye-to-lightning-blockade-magicka-dk-outnumbered-pvp-5

    If you look at the time periods between Power Lashes in that video, you'll see that 3s cooldown will barely (if at all) affect builds like that in PvP.
    I do believe a 3 second cooldown is reasonable but the cooldown should only occur once you have used the ability or the cooldown should be for each individual target set off balance.

    Sensible suggestions, but try to stick to facts more when making your case - hyperboles & misinformation don't really form a solid ground for constructive feedback.
    Edited by DDuke on February 4, 2018 8:49PM
    Decimus (European Megaserver)
  • DDuke
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    It is a nerf because you aren't the only source of off-balance in open world. In smallscale PvP other players in your group can also set people off balance which means you get more powerlashes. So once you have used your powerlash on an enemy player or it has been dodged that means it will be on cooldown for other enemy players nearby. So I would call this a nerf, if you cannot understand this, then I don't know how to convey it to you in a way you will understand.

    Yes, there are other people also applying Off Balance - sure.

    There are currently also other people stealing Off Balance, as it gets consumed by Power Lashes and heavy attacks.


    Again, not as black & white as you paint it to be.
    I am not spreading misinformation, I have tested powerlash on PTS and other dragonknights that have tested it and have also said that if the animation does not go off before the enemy dodges you do not get the heal.

    I doubt you've even logged on to PTS.



    Took me literally five minutes to get you a clip on PTS.

    Every single time I use Power Lash on PTS, I get the heal. Regardless of when the opponent dodges, regardless of whether the skill lands or not. If the Power Lash goes off and is consumed, a heal happens. Period. End of story.
    It is understandable you do not like the majority of people in the forum disproving your points but it is not a reason to be toxic in the forums. Let's all try to be reasonable and truthful here.

    It'd take something you don't possess to disprove anything I write.

    And yes, let's please be reasonable and most of all truthful here, you're talking to someone who actually tests things and has the capacity to back up his claims with video evidence. [Snip].
    Edited by DDuke on February 4, 2018 10:09PM
    Decimus (European Megaserver)
  • KaiserKnight
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    DDuke wrote: »
    And I'd like to clarify that this is a thing that already on live and happens if you try to Power Lash (or any other skill) someone who's not in your LOS or someone who is just barely out of range when you use the skill. On Live, the ability also doesn't heal (or deal damage) in these situations despite the animation playing.

    I'm not the only one who has reported that it does not heal upon the animation not working, I believe @Veg posted about it in another forum, and he has posted several videos about the powerlash heal. I appreciate you posting the video, perhaps it is another condition that causes the heal to miss and not the animation. As you said previously on LIVE it doesn't heal so it is obviously bugged. So yes, for now I am wrong about this and I'll have to do some additional testing to make sure it is consistent.
    DDuke wrote: »

    Yes, there are other people also applying Off Balance - sure.

    There are currently also other people stealing Off Balance, as it gets consumed by Power Lashes and heavy attacks.

    On this topic, I believe I have proven you wrong that it is a "nerf" because their are many more opportunities that you can take to use powerlash than it being consumed by others when off balance occurs. Having a cooldown does not allow you to be able to use it on other enemy players once it's dodged or used in open world which will be very noticeable in group play and even solo open world.

    Last note: Powerlash being dodgable bug or not is still a nerf.
    Edited by KaiserKnight on February 4, 2018 10:44PM
  • FlamingBeard
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    DDuke wrote: »
    It is a nerf because you aren't the only source of off-balance in open world. In smallscale PvP other players in your group can also set people off balance which means you get more powerlashes. So once you have used your powerlash on an enemy player or it has been dodged that means it will be on cooldown for other enemy players nearby. So I would call this a nerf, if you cannot understand this, then I don't know how to convey it to you in a way you will understand.

    Yes, there are other people also applying Off Balance - sure.

    There are currently also other people stealing Off Balance, as it gets consumed by Power Lashes and heavy attacks.


    Again, not as black & white as you paint it to be.
    I am not spreading misinformation, I have tested powerlash on PTS and other dragonknights that have tested it and have also said that if the animation does not go off before the enemy dodges you do not get the heal.

    I doubt you've even logged on to PTS.



    Took me literally five minutes to get you a clip on PTS.

    Every single time I use Power Lash on PTS, I get the heal. Regardless of when the opponent dodges, regardless of whether the skill lands or not. If the Power Lash goes off and is consumed, a heal happens. Period. End of story.
    It is understandable you do not like the majority of people in the forum disproving your points but it is not a reason to be toxic in the forums. Let's all try to be reasonable and truthful here.

    It'd take something you don't possess to disprove anything I write.

    And yes, let's please be reasonable and most of all truthful here, you're talking to someone who actually tests things and has the capacity to back up his claims with video evidence. [Snip].

    Why does Power Lash need a cooldown then if it "consumes Off-Balance just like heavy attacks"?

    There should be a certain amount of reward for holding your Power Lash until you've CC'd the opponent already so you can use Power Lash without it being consumed immediately upon use. You can completely negate most methods of magDK setting you Off-Balance with Forward Momentum, Mist Form, Shuffle, Dodgeroll, and Immovability.

    Or, you know, don't get within 8 freaking meters and you're good, homie.

    There were and still are a multitude of counters to Power Lash already in place and you want even more?

    How about if magDK has to build around the ability to proc Power Lash more often, you should have to build to counter it? Like every other class mechanic in this game. They're using Blockade of Storms? Don't stand in it like a target dummy. Talons? Dodge. Fossilize? Pop an immovable potion and you're home free for a period of time unable to be stopped from using your full Incap rotation.

    The thing is, you don't main magDK, you main a stamBlade, which in itself gives you reason to staunchly oppose any buffs or fixes to magDK as a class.

    It is in your best interest to make sure that magDK is as neutered as it can be without being deleted from the game.

    I imagine once Dragon Bones hits you'll hop onto your bow build and continue complaining perpetually about how dodgeroll doesn't give you the immortality you appear to believe you deserve.

    So again, leave the thread if you're going to continue attempting to convince exactly Zero people of your selfish opinions and let magDK players who have experienced the class over the past few years submit their immensely more valuable input rather than someone who has tried it out for a month.

    I want to have a challenge when I fight magDKs, not a pin cushion that breaths fire.

    Thanks!
    Edited by FlamingBeard on February 4, 2018 10:41PM
  • DDuke
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    DDuke wrote: »
    It is a nerf because you aren't the only source of off-balance in open world. In smallscale PvP other players in your group can also set people off balance which means you get more powerlashes. So once you have used your powerlash on an enemy player or it has been dodged that means it will be on cooldown for other enemy players nearby. So I would call this a nerf, if you cannot understand this, then I don't know how to convey it to you in a way you will understand.

    Yes, there are other people also applying Off Balance - sure.

    There are currently also other people stealing Off Balance, as it gets consumed by Power Lashes and heavy attacks.


    Again, not as black & white as you paint it to be.
    I am not spreading misinformation, I have tested powerlash on PTS and other dragonknights that have tested it and have also said that if the animation does not go off before the enemy dodges you do not get the heal.

    I doubt you've even logged on to PTS.



    Took me literally five minutes to get you a clip on PTS.

    Every single time I use Power Lash on PTS, I get the heal. Regardless of when the opponent dodges, regardless of whether the skill lands or not. If the Power Lash goes off and is consumed, a heal happens. Period. End of story.
    It is understandable you do not like the majority of people in the forum disproving your points but it is not a reason to be toxic in the forums. Let's all try to be reasonable and truthful here.

    It'd take something you don't possess to disprove anything I write.

    And yes, let's please be reasonable and most of all truthful here, you're talking to someone who actually tests things and has the capacity to back up his claims with video evidence. [Snip].

    Why does Power Lash need a cooldown then if it "consumes Off-Balance just like heavy attacks"?
    -snip-

    So we've had one person who doesn't test things on PTS and now we've got you, who apparently doesn't even read patch notes (or play/understand magicka DK).

    It consumes Off Balance after every whip on Live. On the PTS this was specifically removed as per patch notes:
    Heavy Attacks & Off Balance
    Using a Heavy Attack against an Off Balance enemy will now only consume the Off Balance debuff if the enemy is successfully stunned.
    This means that using a Heavy Attack against an Off Balance boss enemy will not consume the Off Balance effect, as bosses are immune to crowd control effects.
    This new behavior also applies to the Power Lash ability. You can use Power Lash on an enemy until the Off Balance effect expires or is consumed.
    I want to have a challenge when I fight magDKs, not a pin cushion that breaths fire.

    Thanks!

    I'd gladly whip some sense into noobs like you on my mDK, when can we meet on PTS?
    Edited by DDuke on February 4, 2018 10:48PM
    Decimus (European Megaserver)
  • FlamingBeard
    FlamingBeard
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    DDuke wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    It is a nerf because you aren't the only source of off-balance in open world. In smallscale PvP other players in your group can also set people off balance which means you get more powerlashes. So once you have used your powerlash on an enemy player or it has been dodged that means it will be on cooldown for other enemy players nearby. So I would call this a nerf, if you cannot understand this, then I don't know how to convey it to you in a way you will understand.

    Yes, there are other people also applying Off Balance - sure.

    There are currently also other people stealing Off Balance, as it gets consumed by Power Lashes and heavy attacks.


    Again, not as black & white as you paint it to be.
    I am not spreading misinformation, I have tested powerlash on PTS and other dragonknights that have tested it and have also said that if the animation does not go off before the enemy dodges you do not get the heal.

    I doubt you've even logged on to PTS.



    Took me literally five minutes to get you a clip on PTS.

    Every single time I use Power Lash on PTS, I get the heal. Regardless of when the opponent dodges, regardless of whether the skill lands or not. If the Power Lash goes off and is consumed, a heal happens. Period. End of story.
    It is understandable you do not like the majority of people in the forum disproving your points but it is not a reason to be toxic in the forums. Let's all try to be reasonable and truthful here.

    It'd take something you don't possess to disprove anything I write.

    And yes, let's please be reasonable and most of all truthful here, you're talking to someone who actually tests things and has the capacity to back up his claims with video evidence. [Snip].

    Why does Power Lash need a cooldown then if it "consumes Off-Balance just like heavy attacks"?
    -snip-

    So we've had one person who doesn't test things on PTS and now we've got you, who apparently doesn't even read patch notes (or play/understand magicka DK).

    It consumes Off Balance after every whip on Live. On the PTS this was specifically removed as per patch notes:
    Heavy Attacks & Off Balance
    Using a Heavy Attack against an Off Balance enemy will now only consume the Off Balance debuff if the enemy is successfully stunned.
    This means that using a Heavy Attack against an Off Balance boss enemy will not consume the Off Balance effect, as bosses are immune to crowd control effects.
    This new behavior also applies to the Power Lash ability. You can use Power Lash on an enemy until the Off Balance effect expires or is consumed.
    I want to have a challenge when I fight magDKs, not a pin cushion that breaths fire.

    Thanks!

    I'd gladly whip some sense into noobs like you on my mDK, when can we meet on PTS?

    Power Lash stuns which consumes Off-Balance just like heavy attacks do when they stun the Off-Balance target, does it not?

    Do you read the patch notes, kind sir?
    Edited by FlamingBeard on February 4, 2018 10:51PM
  • DDuke
    DDuke
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    DDuke wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    It is a nerf because you aren't the only source of off-balance in open world. In smallscale PvP other players in your group can also set people off balance which means you get more powerlashes. So once you have used your powerlash on an enemy player or it has been dodged that means it will be on cooldown for other enemy players nearby. So I would call this a nerf, if you cannot understand this, then I don't know how to convey it to you in a way you will understand.

    Yes, there are other people also applying Off Balance - sure.

    There are currently also other people stealing Off Balance, as it gets consumed by Power Lashes and heavy attacks.


    Again, not as black & white as you paint it to be.
    I am not spreading misinformation, I have tested powerlash on PTS and other dragonknights that have tested it and have also said that if the animation does not go off before the enemy dodges you do not get the heal.

    I doubt you've even logged on to PTS.



    Took me literally five minutes to get you a clip on PTS.

    Every single time I use Power Lash on PTS, I get the heal. Regardless of when the opponent dodges, regardless of whether the skill lands or not. If the Power Lash goes off and is consumed, a heal happens. Period. End of story.
    It is understandable you do not like the majority of people in the forum disproving your points but it is not a reason to be toxic in the forums. Let's all try to be reasonable and truthful here.

    It'd take something you don't possess to disprove anything I write.

    And yes, let's please be reasonable and most of all truthful here, you're talking to someone who actually tests things and has the capacity to back up his claims with video evidence. [Snip].

    Why does Power Lash need a cooldown then if it "consumes Off-Balance just like heavy attacks"?
    -snip-

    So we've had one person who doesn't test things on PTS and now we've got you, who apparently doesn't even read patch notes (or play/understand magicka DK).

    It consumes Off Balance after every whip on Live. On the PTS this was specifically removed as per patch notes:
    Heavy Attacks & Off Balance
    Using a Heavy Attack against an Off Balance enemy will now only consume the Off Balance debuff if the enemy is successfully stunned.
    This means that using a Heavy Attack against an Off Balance boss enemy will not consume the Off Balance effect, as bosses are immune to crowd control effects.
    This new behavior also applies to the Power Lash ability. You can use Power Lash on an enemy until the Off Balance effect expires or is consumed.
    I want to have a challenge when I fight magDKs, not a pin cushion that breaths fire.

    Thanks!

    I'd gladly whip some sense into noobs like you on my mDK, when can we meet on PTS?

    Power Lash stuns which consumes Off-Balance just like heavy attacks do when they stun the Off-Balance target, does it not?

    Do you read the patch notes, kind sir?
    Using a Heavy Attack against an Off Balance enemy will now only consume the Off Balance debuff if the enemy is successfully stunned.

    It's not enough to read them (after I kindly provide them to you), you also have to actually understand them.

    You do not consume Off Balance if you hit a CC immune target (i.e. from the Fossilize you used to proc Off Balance with Flame Lash).


    Also, on Live it doesn't stun at all when you Power Lash someone who's not CC immune, it only consumes the Off Balance. Yes, this is another mDK (and stam DK) buff coming in this patch.
    Decimus (European Megaserver)
  • IZZEFlameLash
    IZZEFlameLash
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Are you sure that is a buff? Given how broken CC immunity is atm, I won't be surprised it is a glitch that will be ninja'd on release or even next update.

    Edit:I am pretty sure at one point in past ESO Lives, they said whips were intended to be undodgeable though. I think previous patch notes that made flame lash part dodgeable sure sounded like it was meant to be undodgeable and then just made dodgeable because of 'feedback'.
    Edited by IZZEFlameLash on February 4, 2018 11:07PM
    Imperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel
  • KaiserKnight
    KaiserKnight
    ✭✭✭
    @DDuke

    In all honesty, I haven't been on PTS in a week and I haven't had much time to play ESO in the past few weeks. I admitted I was wrong about the animation causing the heal to miss, but it is something a few players and I experienced in last weeks PTS. I believe their was a forum written about it 2 weeks ago, I'm sure Veg would know more if he made his way to this forum. From looking at your video your statement seems true from this weeks PTS, but a lot of things on this weeks PTS are broken by many reports such as CC's, ultis, and various other abilities. Don't be so quick to say others are noobs or don't know what they are talking about. Some bugs are difficult to replicate and can happen for a variety of reasons. But please keep the forum constructive, and like I said people don't appreciate toxcity.

    You are yet to acknowledge my point on the powerlash cooldown so I will take as you agree with me on it.
    Edited by KaiserKnight on February 4, 2018 11:07PM
  • DDuke
    DDuke
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    ✭✭✭✭
    @DDuke

    In all honesty, I haven't been on PTS in a week and I haven't had much time to play ESO in the past few weeks. I admitted I was wrong about the animation causing the heal to miss, but it is something a few players and I experienced in last weeks PTS. I believe their was a forum written about it 2 weeks ago, I'm sure Veg would know more if he made his way to this forum. From looking at your video your statement seems true from this weeks PTS, but a lot of things on this weeks PTS are broken by many reports such as CC's, ultis, and various other abilities. Don't be so quick to say others are noobs or don't know what they are talking about. Some bugs are difficult to replicate and can happen for a variety of reasons. But please keep the forum constructive, and like I said people don't appreciate toxcity.

    You are yet to acknowledge my point on the powerlash cooldown so I will take as you agree with me on it.

    Here's what your friend Veg wrote after I tested the Power Lash heal in previous week's PTS update:
    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4820245#Comment_4820245


    If you want to keep this constructive, listen to what others say. Especially people who spend time on the PTS testing things.

    I'm not here to spread misinformation, I'm not here to "get DK nerfed", hell, I'm most likely going to play a stam DK with Flame Lash/Power Lash slotted next patch since it's the most promising new build I've got on PTS.


    There is absolutely nothing wrong with Flame Lash on PTS (yes, I actually even like the 4s heal part & hope it stays, because it gives mDK a chance vs Troll King+Heavy Armor bleed builds & pet sorcs in 1v1).


    If you want to look at skills that could use buffs on mDK, then look at Ash Cloud etc. You know, actual weak/weak'ish skills that could use help. Flame Lash/Power Lash is not one of those weak skills, not on Live and even less so on PTS.


    As to your point regarding the cooldown affecting fights vs multiple opponents, the cooldown is actually over long before you get to Power Lash the second person (atleast in 1vX).

    You fossilize one opponent, Flame Lash->Power Lash, then let's say you have to switch targets - now you have to Fossilize->Flame Lash the 2nd opponent to set him Off Balance and the cooldown is over already.

    The only exception would be Lightning Staff meme builds where you can have multiple opponents Off Balance at the same time from one WoE.
    Edited by DDuke on February 4, 2018 11:40PM
    Decimus (European Megaserver)
  • DDuke
    DDuke
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    ✭✭✭✭
    Are you sure that is a buff? Given how broken CC immunity is atm, I won't be surprised it is a glitch that will be ninja'd on release or even next update.

    Edit:I am pretty sure at one point in past ESO Lives, they said whips were intended to be undodgeable though. I think previous patch notes that made flame lash part dodgeable sure sounded like it was meant to be undodgeable and then just made dodgeable because of 'feedback'.

    I'd like to see the source for that claim. I've watched pretty much every ESO Live and don't recall ever hearing that.
    Decimus (European Megaserver)
  • FlamingBeard
    FlamingBeard
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    DDuke wrote: »
    @DDuke

    In all honesty, I haven't been on PTS in a week and I haven't had much time to play ESO in the past few weeks. I admitted I was wrong about the animation causing the heal to miss, but it is something a few players and I experienced in last weeks PTS. I believe their was a forum written about it 2 weeks ago, I'm sure Veg would know more if he made his way to this forum. From looking at your video your statement seems true from this weeks PTS, but a lot of things on this weeks PTS are broken by many reports such as CC's, ultis, and various other abilities. Don't be so quick to say others are noobs or don't know what they are talking about. Some bugs are difficult to replicate and can happen for a variety of reasons. But please keep the forum constructive, and like I said people don't appreciate toxcity.

    You are yet to acknowledge my point on the powerlash cooldown so I will take as you agree with me on it.

    Here's what your friend Veg wrote after I tested the Power Lash heal in previous week's PTS update:
    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4820245#Comment_4820245


    If you want to keep this constructive, listen to what others say. Especially people who spend time on the PTS testing things.

    I'm not here to spread misinformation, I'm not here to "get DK nerfed", hell, I'm most likely going to play a stam DK with Flame Lash/Power Lash slotted next patch since it's the most promising new build I've got on PTS.


    There is absolutely nothing wrong with Flame Lash on PTS (yes, I actually even like the 4s heal part & hope it stays, because it gives mDK a chance vs Troll King+Heavy Armor bleed builds & pet sorcs in 1v1).


    If you want to look at skills that could use buffs on mDK, then look at Ash Cloud etc. You know, actual weak/weak'ish skills that could use help. Flame Lash/Power Lash is not one of those weak skills, not on Live and even less so on PTS.


    As to your point regarding the cooldown affecting fights vs multiple opponents, the cooldown is actually over long before you get to Power Lash the second person (atleast in 1vX).

    You fossilize one opponent, Flame Lash->Power Lash, then let's say you have to switch targets - now you have to Fossilize->Flame Lash the 2nd opponent to set him Off Balance and the cooldown is over already.

    The only exception would be Lightning Staff meme builds where you can have multiple opponents Off Balance at the same time from one WoE.

    Meme build?

    So what you're saying is whoever builds for Power Lash on Live should be punished to where they can only do Power Lashes as often as those who don't even build for more Off-Balance due to the tacked-on 3 second cooldown? That hardly seems fair or balanced at all.
  • IZZEFlameLash
    IZZEFlameLash
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    DDuke wrote: »
    Are you sure that is a buff? Given how broken CC immunity is atm, I won't be surprised it is a glitch that will be ninja'd on release or even next update.

    Edit:I am pretty sure at one point in past ESO Lives, they said whips were intended to be undodgeable though. I think previous patch notes that made flame lash part dodgeable sure sounded like it was meant to be undodgeable and then just made dodgeable because of 'feedback'.

    I'd like to see the source for that claim. I've watched pretty much every ESO Live and don't recall ever hearing that.

    "The abilities Molten Whip and Veiled Strike can now be avoided by roll dodging." Or so. And flame lash also was unavoidable sometimes before August of 2015 or so iirc. Could have left it out also as history tells us about ZOS leaving things out. I don't really care to go through everything. But the thing is DKs do need some updating!
    Imperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel
  • Passifest
    Passifest
    ✭✭✭✭
    DDuke wrote: »
    @DDuke

    In all honesty, I haven't been on PTS in a week and I haven't had much time to play ESO in the past few weeks. I admitted I was wrong about the animation causing the heal to miss, but it is something a few players and I experienced in last weeks PTS. I believe their was a forum written about it 2 weeks ago, I'm sure Veg would know more if he made his way to this forum. From looking at your video your statement seems true from this weeks PTS, but a lot of things on this weeks PTS are broken by many reports such as CC's, ultis, and various other abilities. Don't be so quick to say others are noobs or don't know what they are talking about. Some bugs are difficult to replicate and can happen for a variety of reasons. But please keep the forum constructive, and like I said people don't appreciate toxcity.

    You are yet to acknowledge my point on the powerlash cooldown so I will take as you agree with me on it.

    Here's what your friend Veg wrote after I tested the Power Lash heal in previous week's PTS update:
    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4820245#Comment_4820245


    If you want to keep this constructive, listen to what others say. Especially people who spend time on the PTS testing things.

    I'm not here to spread misinformation, I'm not here to "get DK nerfed", hell, I'm most likely going to play a stam DK with Flame Lash/Power Lash slotted next patch since it's the most promising new build I've got on PTS.


    There is absolutely nothing wrong with Flame Lash on PTS (yes, I actually even like the 4s heal part & hope it stays, because it gives mDK a chance vs Troll King+Heavy Armor bleed builds & pet sorcs in 1v1).


    If you want to look at skills that could use buffs on mDK, then look at Ash Cloud etc. You know, actual weak/weak'ish skills that could use help. Flame Lash/Power Lash is not one of those weak skills, not on Live and even less so on PTS.


    As to your point regarding the cooldown affecting fights vs multiple opponents, the cooldown is actually over long before you get to Power Lash the second person (atleast in 1vX).

    You fossilize one opponent, Flame Lash->Power Lash, then let's say you have to switch targets - now you have to Fossilize->Flame Lash the 2nd opponent to set him Off Balance and the cooldown is over already.

    The only exception would be Lightning Staff meme builds where you can have multiple opponents Off Balance at the same time from one WoE.

    You keep calling lightning staff builds meme builds... why is that? They're fairly balanced imo as they are *** vs shields(due to concussion not working on shield users) but good vs melee users and I think it is a shame that build diversity is going down with this patch.
  • Qbiken
    Qbiken
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    ✭✭✭
    ak_pvp wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    Here we go again... and I already have to correct things.
    Sharee wrote: »
    How many people actually tested mag Dk on PTS? Power Lash has less cooldown than on live (3 seconds instead of 5) and a healing tooltip close to Earthgore but somehow mag Dks feel nerfed and complain about Lash being dodgeable (yeah, a 29k heal and 15k damage ability which is almost spammable definitely needs to be undodgeable as well).

    I don't know how many actually tested on PTS, but i do know one that didn't read the thread:

    - powerlash has no cooldown on live at all

    It has a de facto 5 second cooldown in PvP, since you can only set people off balance with Flame Lash every 5s (and it's always consumed). The cooldown is actually 7 seconds for builds that don't have space for Talons.

    Only exception to this were the lightning staff meme builds.
    Sharee wrote: »
    - the healing tooltip was not mentioned in patch notes, and thus is believed to be a bug.

    A bug... like Power Lash being undodgeable?
    ...now if their "uber great" burst healing is now dodgeable- they can't be healed. RIP

    You still get the healing on PTS, even if your target dodges the Power Lash.


    Bug or not, who knows - but the tooltip of Flame Lash doesn't say the heal is dependent on the Lash landing, just that you get X healing over 4 seconds when you cast the ability.

    The difference being that undodgable was a bug that was in game, vs PTS 4s heal, which is most likely going to be removed. One is actual loss of functionality, bug or not. As for the healing being dodgable, it probably won't change. Since its not like you are healing off the target. To be honest, I don't really see the logic behind it, sort of like the logic that throwing a rock at someone buffs you up.

    The death of the lightning staff meme builds really hurts for vMA, where it was one of the best ways to do it.

    If you check out LZH on youtube he does some pretty neat runs with force-pulse magDK.....if you´ve a perfected asylum that is......

    WTB a non-bugged werewolf for at least one patch
    (PC/EU)
    Probably the worst Werewolf on PC/EU


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