ESO PVP is a Joke < ! >

WeylandLabs

@VaranisArano I'm sorry I wasn't talking about you specifically. I just see a post like yours every time I come into the forums on PvP.

I'm happy you have had progression in PvP, must be an exciting time for you.

As an ex player with over 5k hours, I learned its not getting any better, just bandaid fixes, broken promises, bad coding and balance issues that will never be fully addresed by ZOS.

I refuse to pay money to a system that pushes content 100% of the time, with no real balance or system fixes.

New content doesn't mean progression, once you and some cap out and maybe spend another year you will see what I'm talking about with PvP. There is no good or bad in ESO pvp, only in time you will see.

Turelus

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

Does anybody know, why it is not ? I will let the next few comments, push that knowledge and wisdom of why it will never be.

Because AD are zergers.

WeylandLabs

@Turelus C,mon man ! Lol

Zergs where never a problem if it was balanced. Here I'll show you proof on console to validate my point. No bombing needed... 1vZerg/Server

https://youtu.be/x8exbIu5WN0

Call it a #tbt2015 lol

alexthomp92

I would like to take this opportunity to say I think eso Pvp is fine
I have one of every character leveled and geared for Pvp, some of My characters are better at taking down some classes than others, I think the game is fairly balanced I have played since release and intend to do so for many years to come.
If I'm in light armour I use shields
I use med on my stamblade and dodge cloak and LOS like hell
And in heavy armour I use Los a lot
Always run impen to get to around 2.4k crit ressist regardless of armour weight and I pick sets that I like, for the feel that I'm going for.

In the past I have looked at meta builds on YouTube to see kind of things people go for but I haven't found one that I would like to use, but they are a good marker as to what might be effective for you.

And for the record I can't think of a single class that I use and spam abilities if people are getting killed by someone spamming one ability on them over and over I recommend practice duelling with a friend until you learn your build inside out.

Bam_Bam

I'm mediocre, don't one shot people, die a LOT and I still LOVE PvP. Sorry!

Bam_Bam

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

I don't play ESO anymore but it's always good times to see where this game was and is going. Being a Day1 player on console "That's June 9th 2015, for the people that don't know."

It's interesting to see the comments, about validating ESO PvP combat system. From what I know about other mmos PvP/RvRs, ESO is not even close to it.

To 1vX your dreams really quick I will say this.

Why do you think ESOs PvP is not an Esport ?

I mean that is, true skill in gaming and 100% real recognition with sponsors, and making real money right ?

Does anybody know, why it is not ? I will let the next few comments, push that knowledge and wisdom of why it will never be.

1 year from now hopefully I will not see the same posts by the same people. Progression should be in every game.

Who cares? I mean seriously? WHO CARES. I d on't even know what esports is. Our guild love PVp and the PvP community. Sure it can get tetchy and egos get bruised but that's the nature of the beast.

I'm pleased and pray that it NEVER becomes a corporate wh0re of a game - people just playing it for a financial prize and corporate sponsorship?? What a load of nonsense. ES0 doesn't need to be a prostitute, it makes shedloads of money as it is. It has a great solid fanbase and you better believe that less than 10% are on the forums - most just play the game.

Emma_Overload

shiningforce wrote: »

Now before I start I just wanted to say I really do like ESO for its other aspects of the game. PVE is fantastic and the Dungeons are fun to run through. Crafting is crafting and Housing needs a few fixes like more items to put into housing but other than that the game is solid..... until you hit PVP.

I have read countless articles on pvp and there are way too many people that dont like it. Zenimax doesnt seem to care honestly. The only people that seem to really love PVP are the ones with the higher gear sets and can One shot you EVERY TIME. These are the people that defend pvp on each thread. At least in games like SWO or WoW you can just show up and have a slight chance of success each time.

The issue with PVP in ESO is its not built for PVP in Mind! Every attack is basically automatic with no cooldowns or having to wait small durations like 1 1/2 seconds to shoot a magic spell like every other MMO. So all you have are ppl that get the highest level gear (Usually by purchasing it with RL money) and people that just start get Hit once blasted to death every time they spawn. Now there are a lot of builds you can use but everyone pretty much ends up with the same.

This is a gear driven pvp game and that royally sucks. Look I have played many MMO's since Everquest and have always been really good at PVP. But ESO is just nonsense. Even if someone has more gear than you, at least you should be able to use your skill against them. Nope because they ONE or TWO SHOT YOU!

The map is too long for raiding pvp. The Battleground are so lazily constructed, Run in a circle and capture flags..... You can't even pick the battleground you want, queing for random just stinks all by itself.

I do not see the appeal of PvP, Which is a real deal breaker for me, whenever better gear comes out everyone will run to get it. Didn't need to do that in other MMO's, Honestly it really falls on the combat system itself, I know its made for PC and Console but only 5 /10 buttons which you switch from and all attacks are automatic is ridiculous.

Spam spam spam, have top gear, spam. No skill involved. Its pretty lackluster.

Anyway its just my Opinion if you love it thats nice but after taking years of looking at the comments sections of people tlaking about PvP its obvious for many reasons its broke. This is also a reason many people end up leaving this game, The combat system needs to be fixed, We were originally told this game wouldnt be like it is now, that is would be fair to players. Anyone should be able to come into pvp and have a chance at Fun and succeeding a bit.

If I misspelled anything/grammar issues sorry English is not my first language.

LOL, if you think PvP is no good without long cooldowns, I wonder if you've ever heard of games like Counter-Strike or Call of Duty?

Bam_Bam

Thogard wrote: »

I’d be salty too if I was bad at PvP.

Thankfully being good at other video games carried over to this game . And thankfully this game has a high skill cap.

If it wasn’t for the steep learning curve being too tough for people like OP, I couldn’t get those 30-0 KDs

So thank you OP.

In about a year you’ll reporting me for hacking and whining on the boards about his prevalent cheat engine is. Looking forward to making fun of you then too.

I'm a bang-average player i think. some days i can play awesome but i'm reeeeeally inconsistent. but I'm defintiely getting better. I havea LOT trouble retaining information and staying focused so it takes me a lot longer to pick stuff up (this is in real life too). But even when I die i laugh about it. And I always try congratulate skillful players if they kill me. I get quite a few thank you when I do that but some younger players FREAK OUT big time and go cray-cray. it's all good though, LOL.

Nihility42

It sounds like you tried to go into PVP with your *** PVE gear (i.e. no impen traits), got wrecked by better players and tried to blame it on their gear to save your ego. This post is a joke.

Nihility42

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

Why do you think ESOs PvP is not an Esport ?

I mean that is, true skill in gaming and 100% real recognition with sponsors, and making real money right ?

Does anybody know, why it is not ? I will let the next few comments, push that knowledge and wisdom of why it will never be.

Because no MMO has achieved this? I'd say the reason that it isn't considered an eSport is 100% because it is an MMO and MMOs by their nature make *** eSports. That's not a design flaw, it's just not the goal.

Turelus

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

Turelus C,mon man ! Lol

Zergs where never a problem if it was balanced. Here I'll show you proof on console to validate my point. No bombing needed... 1vZerg/Server

https://youtu.be/x8exbIu5WN0

Call it a #tbt2015 lol

So easy to get bites.

WeylandLabs

Wait a second i just realized something. A heavy majority of people on this thread are semi new to Eso PvP. That makes me think, what would they be trying to defend.


@Nihility42 Hello new player

Did you just say no other mmo has never been an Esport ?

And Mmos by nature makes for a bad Esports ?

Ummm.... If you say so ? ( scratches head )

technohic

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

Wait a second i just realized something. A heavy majority of people on this thread are semi new to Eso PvP. That makes me think, what would they be trying to defend.


@Nihility42 Hello new player

Did you just say no other mmo has never been an Esport ?

And Mmos by nature makes for a bad Esports ?

Ummm.... If you say so ? ( scratches head )

Which MMO has been an eSport?

lao

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

I don't play ESO anymore but it's always good times to see where this game was and is going. Being a Day1 player on console "That's June 9th 2015, for the people that don't know."

It's interesting to see the comments, about validating ESO PvP combat system. From what I know about other mmos PvP/RvRs, ESO is not even close to it.

To 1vX your dreams really quick I will say this.

Why do you think ESOs PvP is not an Esport ?

I mean that is, true skill in gaming and 100% real recognition with sponsors, and making real money right ?

Does anybody know, why it is not ? I will let the next few comments, push that knowledge and wisdom of why it will never be.

1 year from now hopefully I will not see the same posts by the same people. Progression should be in every game.

WoW is an esport. GW2 is an esport too. wether or not a game has progression is entirely irrelevant as you would get normalized characters for a tournament anyways. (as beeing put into practice in WoW and GW2) however both are just esports cos blizzard and arenanet force it to be by doing their own tournaments and putting their own money on the line. there is 0 outside sponsors for either of them.

the real reason why most MMO´s dont make it as an esport is cos its hard to show it to ppl from a spectator perspective. theres usually too many things going on at the same time in group vs group fights to cast it effectively and you dont have a spectator cam build into those games unlike in games like CS/Dota/LoL/starcraft etc. another reason is that all MMO´s except 1-2 have a WAY too low skill ceiling to become an esport. if ESO would be an esport it would take literally about 3-5 days till it is completely figured out and fully mastered by professional players. the only 2 MMO´s that could theoretically qualify as an esport from a skill ceiling PoV is DAoC and Darkfall. all others are simply way too easy.

trustcotraptb14_ESO

Anyone defending ESO as an E-Sport needs to have their head examined...

The PvP is broken in ESO because of their awfully designed combat system which allows players to burst several skills in a very short amount of time.

It's really that simple.

If you can animation cancel good and abuse the system to the fullest, you will have a good time in ESO mowing down the noobs in 2 seconds. If you can't master the animation canceling then you're going to do zero damage and die in 2 seconds, it's just poor design on ZoS's part, plain and simple.

Mr_Gallows

Yes ESO PvP is a joke. And a bad one. It's not even funny after a plate of magic mushrooms.

1. The run speed is stupid. It looks absolutely lame. It does nothing good for gameplay either. On top of that, it looks like chinese new year, which does not at all work well with how toned down and realistic the world looks.
3. The combination of no CD on abilities, regen stacking, lag, run speed, it is just awful.
4. All the AoE damage, healing, CC, combined with all the exceptions that ignore other stuff, so many instant abilities. It's just a mess.
5. Resource management is a joke.

If the game used only light/heavy attacks combined with balanced block/dodge it would play better - many of the abilities are that bad.

Compare ESO to GW2 PvP where weapons have specific skill sets, you have one personal heal that cannot be spammed. GW2 is challenging and PvP is hard - but it's not a chaotic mess. Sure WvW has some zerg issues like all big scale MMOs, but even that plays better. Gear has a great balance. Resource management works. GW2 has a similar limited skill setup, tied to weapons - they but did everything right in terms of the core mechanics for combat.

GW2 was designed for PvP - ESO was not, because what ESO has cannot really be considered design. It's like watching the product of early stage drunken concept brain storming.

PvE of ESO is ok, although High end content is meh. But the world is amazing, quests brilliant, the PvE side of expansions have been great with thief guild and the brotherhood and all those world activities. That's really great stuff.

But PvP cannot be fixed. The problems are at the very core of the combat design.

If they had tied all combat abilities to light/heavy attacks as modifiers to those and made the recovery after an attack hard coded even if you cancel, that would have worked better. You activate surprise attacks. Your light/heavy attacks are now surprise attacks until you activate something else. The ability would scale with how much you charge the attack. For this to work run speed would need to be toned down. Dodge would need to have it's own Resource and so should block. They should do two different things. They should have used the GW2 principle. You would only be able yo put weapon specific abilities on some of the slots. I guess it's easier just to go play GW2

VaranisArano

Mr_Gallows wrote: »

But PvP cannot be fixed. The problems are at the very core of the combat design.

If they had tied all combat abilities to light/heavy attacks as modifiers to those and made the recovery after an attack hard coded even if you cancel, that would have worked better. You activate surprise attacks. Your light/heavy attacks are now surprise attacks until you activate something else. The ability would scale with how much you charge the attack. For this to work run speed would need to be toned down. Dodge would need to have it's own Resource and so should block. They should do two different things. They should have used the GW2 principle. You would only be able yo put weapon specific abilities on some of the slots. I guess it's easier just to go play GW2

Yeah, if you want ESO PVP to play like PVP in GW2, it probably is easier to just go play GW2 again. ZOS is markedly resistant to the idea of balancing PVP and PVE separately.

Kode

Camelot Unchained received a recent large infusion of cash... Hopeful for upcoming Beta, and that this should speed the release of the game.

I love the combat in this game, but the engine can't handle it, especially during prime time.

I have argued that ZOS needs to change their PvP game since they wont be able to compete with future games, built to handle mass PvP, specialize in smaller scale combat. I wonder if they may realize that too though, and intend to scale back on their PvP investment, letting it atrophy away.

The PvE in this game doesn't do much for me... it is slow and boring. Not to mention redundant, with little cause to grind.

TheDoomsdayMonster

I personally don't think PvP in this game is that gear dependant at all...

If you know what you are doing (and that's a HUGE part of PvP), then you can have success wearing almost anything; especially if you have a good burst combo and know when/how to use it...

Now, you wont be able to beat the top tier players wearing "anything," but you will be able to hold your own against and/or beat most players and have a good time wearing "anything"...

Mr_Gallows

VaranisArano wrote: »

Mr_Gallows wrote: »

But PvP cannot be fixed. The problems are at the very core of the combat design.

If they had tied all combat abilities to light/heavy attacks as modifiers to those and made the recovery after an attack hard coded even if you cancel, that would have worked better. You activate surprise attacks. Your light/heavy attacks are now surprise attacks until you activate something else. The ability would scale with how much you charge the attack. For this to work run speed would need to be toned down. Dodge would need to have it's own Resource and so should block. They should do two different things. They should have used the GW2 principle. You would only be able yo put weapon specific abilities on some of the slots. I guess it's easier just to go play GW2

Yeah, if you want ESO PVP to play like PVP in GW2, it probably is easier to just go play GW2 again. ZOS is markedly resistant to the idea of balancing PVP and PVE separately.

I never really stopped. Once you've seen how a MMO can play in PvP and how perfect the pacing and combat gameplay is in GW2, it's really hard to play anything else. I like the ESO world/setting a lot better though, so both games have their place. I just think it''s incredible they managed this kind of poor PvP for a game which has such a huge PvP component. I don't want it to play like GW2, but just to have the same basic principle of actually having proper adversial gameplay. Ies taking turns pressing a nuke button can be fun for a few days, but the way the GW2 developers have designed combat just works to create insanely awesome fights. The balance of the following things are spot on.

1. Healing vs damage is well balanced, plus the rate of using heals
2. Speed of skill activation, run speed etc.leads to great pacing
4. Dodging vs attack is well balanced
5. Armour rating vs damage output is well balanced
6. CC vs Escape is well balanced.
7. Game is designed to respect and focus on constant player input.

I could go on, but the basic principle of GW2 is just a great example of how to make fights fun and play well. The learning curve of GW2 is steep, but it is still much better for new people compared to ESO, where skill of playing isn't the most important factor. All the above could be true for ESO, had they designed it from that perspective - but they haven't.

technohic

I will say that I think gear is a huge part; its just not all of it. Obviously proc sets are very powerful and new ones are almost always overtuned and that sucks for those of us that do not farm PvE end game; but there are some that are usually good poor mans sets, but everything matters and being off by 10% winds up being a lot bigger when add 10% off on gear, 10% off on build, 10% off on skill, 10% off on champion points, 10% of knowledge of other classes and game mechanics; then you find yourself a long way off.

So I guess everything matters a lot so while I agree gear is part of that, it isn't everything

Caleb_Kadesh

shiningforce wrote: »

Now before I start I just wanted to say I really do like ESO for its other aspects of the game. PVE is fantastic and the Dungeons are fun to run through. Crafting is crafting and Housing needs a few fixes like more items to put into housing but other than that the game is solid..... until you hit PVP.

I love ESO PvP. Often I don't run the Meta builds just because I can and I have much success.

I remember my first experience I was riding open field to the current battle and was jumped and killed quickly. The same ganker asked me about my build and offered to help me, "git better". I took his advice and never looked back.

As a side, don't ever play EvE Online (My favorite game) The learning curve to, "git good" dwarfs ESO. I love a game that rewards intelligence and perseverance.

Whenever I get destroyed in PvP my first question is how was it done, and do I want to incorporate that into my playstyle.

Ragnarock41

Kode wrote: »

Camelot Unchained received a recent large infusion of cash... Hopeful for upcoming Beta, and that this should speed the release of the game.

I love the combat in this game, but the engine can't handle it, especially during prime time.

I have argued that ZOS needs to change their PvP game since they wont be able to compete with future games, built to handle mass PvP, specialize in smaller scale combat. I wonder if they may realize that too though, and intend to scale back on their PvP investment, letting it atrophy away.

The PvE in this game doesn't do much for me... it is slow and boring. Not to mention redundant, with little cause to grind.

I think that game won't launch anytime soon, but if it does and is good, then zenimax can enjoy their warden scrolls online without me.

Now PvP can be chaotic and a little unbalanced, but one thing I absolutely hate in any game is pay to win mechanics, and when I look at warden, it screams ''BUY ME RIGHT NOW!''

Mr_Gallows

Small scale combat in ESO is even worse, because that really highlights the fundamental issues with the combat system and the way skills, stamina/magica, healing/damage and everything about combat is just badly thought out. At least in mass combat you can blame it on the zerg. Look to GW2 if you want great PvP

Cernow

PvP in this game is fundamentally broken. That's not to say there's no fun to be had, but it could and should be so much better Battlegrounds are just the same tedious fare that they are in every MMO. But Cyrodiil could be and should be so much more, if only it wasn't so broken and imbalanced. The main issues are:

1) Way too gear dependant. This alone breaks PvP, but then there's everything else ...

2) Class and build balance is shockingly bad. It's never easy in any MMO, but ESO is worse than most. I don't think the devs have much of a clue at this point and just seem to knee jerk nerf all the time. And of course CPs just make balance so much worse in the campaigns where they are active.

3) Use of exploits and cheats. This isn't policed properly, period.

4) Animation cancelling. Why is this even a thing? Laughable in a game of this calibre.

5) Certain addons which whilst legal are borderline cheating and don't help create good gameplay.

6) Crowd control is a mess. Hard to even know where to start with this one and the devs certainly don't have a clue.

7) Cross realming is rife in Cyrodiil campaigns. Hard to control in any MMO with factions, but ESO doesn't even bother by letting people switch sides in the same campaign with ease (if they have alts of different factions).

8) Lag and eternal loading screens in Cyrodiil, 'nuff said.

People will tell you it's all about skill but it really isn't. Yes there's some basics to learn and battlefield awareness does help a fair bit. And of course having a good team around you will always help. But beyond that it's just down to gear, build and whether someone has no shame when it comes to cheesing the game mechanics and using dubious addons and exploits.

yodased

Gets level 10. Oh I can pvp.......

Goes to vivec.


Cries.

You don't have all your skills? Bot sure what gear to use? Not CP?

Go to kyne, get a feeling for the game.


Also, sharing accounts is against t.o.s. So I wouldn't go around saying you play on your friends account

FearlessOne_2014

Hate to break it to you. If you are looking for meaningful competitive skill-based PvP in a MMO. Be prepared to be completely disappointed.

One and one reason only.

Balance don't make sells in MMOs. it's unbalanced classes, races, and gear that you get which makes MMO teams their money.

Imagine if MMOs was as skill-based as MOBAs, Shooters, or Battle Royale type games. How would MMO teams convince you to keep buying expansions and race changes, and re roll to another class to convince you to buy cash shop mount/bag upgrades, if everything was balanced and competitive? They wouldn't be able to because you would be happy if everything was balanced, so no reason for you to buy these things for multiple characters.

Honestly the MMORPG genre is the objectively one of the worst genres for decent PvP. If you are only into gaming for PvP stay far far away from MMOs. Their whole market pitch is to create imbalancement, in order to get you to spend your money. In order to be competitive with the current imbalanced META.

This is now how MMO companies operate these days. All MMOs are nothing then balent cash grabs these days. You are just choosing which version of cash grab, you want to deal with.You want meaningful competitive skill-based PvP you are going to have to look at another genre.

Mr_Gallows

Not completely true Fearless. GW2 has perfectly balanced PvP. Gear does not work for battlegrounds. It's very popular.

For WvW (the cyrodill of GW2), gear does get factored in, but getting decent gear is easy and there are no wildly overpowered sets. Zerging was an issue at first, but the support for the game is amazing and they make good descisions.

The recent expansions show how they think. They made mounts available. But rather than just being a means to move faster, each different mount has a special movement ability and a special engage ability. It just shows their dedication to gameplay.

I just wish the ESO developers would take a step back and consider that their current design for combat is not working and never will. ESO is amazing in many ways, but the combat system needs a revamp. GW2 has a similar semi-action system, with few skills on the bar and skills tied to weapons. They just designed the game from a very different perspective and streamlined it so it would actually work in PvE and PvP.

Things that make GW play better.

1. GW has a special dodge resource
2. GW2 has cooldowns and for the thief with no cooldown he has action points of sorts.
3. The ratio of damage vs healing is spot on.
4. Armor works and stats are divided between direct damage, condition damage, healing power, critical chance, critical damage, armor, health and some others. A standard piece of equipment has three stats and while you can mix and match between a lot of different setups, it remains very balanced.
5. Set effects come from armor runes. These sets are well balanced and there is no trickery to get two full sets or something.
6. Combat is responsive. While the learning curve is very High, the pacing is spot on to make combat even in PvP very responsive and a feeling og trading blows back and forth. It just works so well. It's also because the skills are sp great, whereas a lot of skills in eso are quite bad.
7. Your weapons determine your weapon skills. You can mix and match Dual wield weapons to get different combo skills. Then you have three utility skills and an elite skill. Weapon swap is possible of course. But the way the skills are set up and what you can put where, is so much better than ESO. I hate how you in ESO may pick 3-4 skills just for buffs, 20% bonus damage, extra crit etc. It's such an absolutely stupid idea to use active skills for that. And the constant mind boggling boring cycle of buffing every 30/20 seconds.
8. GW2 is free to download and play right now, so try it out. And please ESO developers - play some GW2, because ESO is an amazing game in so many ways and it really deserved a solid combat system.

WeylandLabs

@FearlessOne_2014 I couldn't agree more with what you said. 100% facts and as a console player, I want to be play and be competitive against skilled, smart and strategic players.

ESO as an MMORPG, gearing more towards the RPG genre. I guess more people like fantasy land and few people like to grow and learn new and different strategic gameplay against other people vs A.I and broke guitar hero sequential button-pushing. Aka ESO Mechanics ....

It's only progression as the ESports world get bigger every year. You will see the companies left behind because they worried about the now revenue. Rather than the feedback and understanding patterns and trends of todays and tomorrow's gamers want. I'm an average age of a gamer in the U.S and even i know where this is going. In business, real life or personal if there is no progression there is no growth and growth = success in any form. And If your not growing your dying, plain and simple.

The question shouldnt be why isn't ESO competitive it should be why has ZOS failed to see where ESO is going I'd be worried in 5 years cause they might not have a job. Zenimax Media isn't to big to fail I promise that. But the board will soon to see, and to be honest everyone on these forums you all been talking to the wrong people its ZOM you want not ZOS. By me telling you this, this comment might be removed by an admin and thread closed.

Good talk everyone

VaranisArano

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

ESO as an MMORPG, gearing more towards the RPG genre. I guess more people like fantasy land and few people like to grow and learn new and different strategic gameplay against other people vs A.I and broke guitar hero sequential button-pushing. Aka ESO Mechanics ....

Its almost as if ESO came from the Elder Scrolls, a series of single-player RPG games...

As an MMO, I'm not sure that ESO is going to have to level of progression you expect of other MMOs. As a part of the Elder Scrolls series of RPG games, its doing pretty well.