Gold cost for outfitting must go

Recremen

As I brought up in much more detail in my Outfit System Praise, Criticism, and Commentary thread, having a per-use cost for a cosmetic system is a new and bad idea.

It most hurts the people who have most been looking forward to this system, those who are already scraping the bottom of the barrel just to finish their motif collections or to buy cash shop costumes to fill all their aesthetic needs.

It won't drive revenue generation for the company because the cash options are either undesirable (outfit change tokens) or don't actually solve the problem (extra outfit slots).

I'm already down 30k gold on the template character just from changing my outfit enough to get the screenshots for the other thread. In a single day. That is ridiculous!!

Just completely scrap the gold cost. It is useless. We don't need more gold sinks. I am drowning in gold sinks between the luxury vendor and the golden and houses and motifs and master writs and furnishing recipes, not to mention expenditures for new build ideas. We are 100% all set on gold sinks. If people aren't spending their gold, then they are frankly not engaging with the game's systems, because I am getting absolutely smothered over here.

At the very least, ESO+ memebers should be able to change their outfits at no additional cost. A transmog system was one of the most requested features from that Ideas for ESO Plus thread ZOS made, and while we're all thrilled that the system is open to everyone, nobody is thrilled at the prospect of a per-use cost, something that's never been done for a cosmetic system in the history of the game. If ESO+ members can use it for free then that's two birds with one stone, basically.

Aliyavana

I think its necessary for more gold sinks as gold is easy to make in this game. I think that dye costs should be removed however and eso plus members can use this feature free of charge

ParaNostram

Gold sinks are important for mmo economies.

Recremen

aliyavana wrote: »

I think its necessary for more hold sinks as good is easy to make in this game. I think that dye costs should be removed however and eso plus members can use this feature free of charge

There's already so many gold sinks, though! And gold is not that easy to make unless you're strictly farming for gold. If you actually play the content or PvP then gold is actually very precious. Indeed, some systems, like any kind of crafting, will actually have you operating at a loss!

ParaNostram wrote: »

Gold sinks are important for mmo economies.

Cool then the dozen existing gold sinks don't need competition.

ak_pvp

Not going to happen. Things like the imperial/moragtong have the express bonus of not costing gold to change. Outfit change tokens are also sold in the CS which I believe is to skip the gold cost.

Aleraon

I don't see why they have to have any gold cost associated with it at all just to change your outward appearance other than to deter people from overly using it. Many people have already spent a fortune on acquiring motifs so being charged again to use them in this way is kind of a slap in the face.

Ragnarock41

Its fine. really. Tho they can give ESO+ an advantage here to promote more subs. Right now only reason I consider ESO+ is inventory space.

Cenom

Stop being cheap. That's what is ridiculous.

mesmerizedish

Using as argument the cost of changing outfits specifically to get numerous screenshots to show off features or motifs is disingenuous. This is a highly artificial scenario that doesn't really have any bearing on realistic use of the system. On the PTS you can just buy outfit tokens if you want to get those screenshots.

For the most part, this will be a few thousand gold per outfit, and most people will not be changing their entire outfit several times a day. The cost is anything but prohibitive.

The real worry for me is the cost of additional outfit slots. Since they're crowns-only, we won't know how much they are until the patch goes live.

Aliyavana

Recremen wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

I think its necessary for more hold sinks as good is easy to make in this game. I think that dye costs should be removed however and eso plus members can use this feature free of charge

There's already so many gold sinks, though! And gold is not that easy to make unless you're strictly farming for gold. If you actually play the content or PvP then gold is actually very precious. Indeed, some systems, like any kind of crafting, will actually have you operating at a loss!

ParaNostram wrote: »

Gold sinks are important for mmo economies.

Cool then the dozen existing gold sinks don't need competition.

The only gold sink I hate is the respec gold sink. We need a dual spec system

Oakmontowls_ESO

The gold cost is pretty low for what it is giving you. The only change I would like to see is maybe giving eso + a free slot or maybe decreasing the price for eso+ because as it stands eso+ has no benefit in this base game system.

Taysa

mesmerizedish wrote: »

Using as argument the cost of changing outfits specifically to get numerous screenshots to show off features or motifs is disingenuous. This is a highly artificial scenario that doesn't really have any bearing on realistic use of the system.

Here's a more realistic scenario.

Player dyes an outfit that looks good in whatever horrid lighting effect was available to them at the time. Player then goes out into the wilderness and realizes that in natural sunlight, they look like a power ranger on an acid trip. Player then has to go back and pay for another dye job and hope that one is better. Rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat.

Recremen

mesmerizedish wrote: »

Using as argument the cost of changing outfits specifically to get numerous screenshots to show off features or motifs is disingenuous. This is a highly artificial scenario that doesn't really have any bearing on realistic use of the system. On the PTS you can just buy outfit tokens if you want to get those screenshots.

For the most part, this will be a few thousand gold per outfit, and most people will not be changing their entire outfit several times a day. The cost is anything but prohibitive.

The real worry for me is the cost of additional outfit slots. Since they're crowns-only, we won't know how much they are until the patch goes live.

It was three screenshots, that's hardly "numerous" unless you mean numerous to imply "literally any number". And that's not disingenuous, that is completely in line with how I play the game and the content I make for the community. I do a lot of storytelling and I tie as many of the latest costumes, mounts, etc. into it to keep things fresh and interesting. This system was going to open up huge new possibilities for content creation, but I can't even afford to keep up properly with the current motifs, let alone having the pay out the boot for every new look. And I am not alone on this, a huge number of players like changing things up, for both content creation and their own enjoyment. The cost is hugely prohibitive.

Incidentally, no, you can't buy outfit change tokens on the PTS. At least not as of last night. You can't buy extra outfit slots either. Neither are currently in the cash shop offerings.

And I don't know why you'd be worried about how much additional outfit slots will cost, but not how much it costs to change your outfit to begin with. If the slots cost too much, you can just go change it manually every time, yeah?

Oakmontowls_ESO

Taysa wrote: »

mesmerizedish wrote: »

Using as argument the cost of changing outfits specifically to get numerous screenshots to show off features or motifs is disingenuous. This is a highly artificial scenario that doesn't really have any bearing on realistic use of the system.

Here's a more realistic scenario.

Player dyes an outfit that looks good in whatever horrid lighting effect was available to them at the time. Player then goes out into the wilderness and realizes that in natural sunlight, they look like a power ranger on an acid trip. Player then has to go back and pay for another dye job and hope that one is better. Rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat.

Dyeing is free still.

Taysa

Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »

Taysa wrote: »

mesmerizedish wrote: »

Using as argument the cost of changing outfits specifically to get numerous screenshots to show off features or motifs is disingenuous. This is a highly artificial scenario that doesn't really have any bearing on realistic use of the system.

Here's a more realistic scenario.

Player dyes an outfit that looks good in whatever horrid lighting effect was available to them at the time. Player then goes out into the wilderness and realizes that in natural sunlight, they look like a power ranger on an acid trip. Player then has to go back and pay for another dye job and hope that one is better. Rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat.

Dyeing is free still.

Then it's bugged, because I was charged for it.

Nolic1

The cost is not that bad on armor and dyes there really in a good place the weapons on the other hand cost more and I think they need to be brought down to meet or be on par with the other items in pricing. 6k to change a weapon skin on the rare ones is ouch if it was say 3k to 4k gold it would fit better into the pricing system and would be a better over all price point and gold sink then charging more cause its a weapon which is what many wanted this for besides the monster sets.

Recremen

Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »

The gold cost is pretty low for what it is giving you. The only change I would like to see is maybe giving eso + a free slot or maybe decreasing the price for eso+ because as it stands eso+ has no benefit in this base game system.

As I explained in my more detailed post, an extra outfit slot does nothing to address the underlying problem. The pain point is per-use cost. You still have to pay to create a new outfit for your extra outfit slot, and then you still have to pay every time you want to change things up, which for many of us is "extremely frequently". The benefit of more outfit slots is the ability to save exceptional looks that you know you'll want to come back to, and the freedom to change into those looks out in the field, without having to find a dye station. That's it. That's still worth my money, don't get me wrong, but it doesn't solve the big problem with the system.

Sigtric

Recremen wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

I think its necessary for more hold sinks as good is easy to make in this game. I think that dye costs should be removed however and eso plus members can use this feature free of charge

There's already so many gold sinks, though! And gold is not that easy to make unless you're strictly farming for gold. If you actually play the content or PvP then gold is actually very precious. Indeed, some systems, like any kind of crafting, will actually have you operating at a loss!

ParaNostram wrote: »

Gold sinks are important for mmo economies.

Cool then the dozen existing gold sinks don't need competition.

I'm still not sure how I feel about the gold costs as they are currently but the bolded bit??? I make ~100k a day on the weekends if I just play the game and sell all the trash I pick up + quest rewards + guild store anything valuable... money is not that hard to make.

NyassaV

I'm fine with a gold sink but this needs to be done and values differently

Sigtric

Taysa wrote: »

Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »

Taysa wrote: »

mesmerizedish wrote: »

Using as argument the cost of changing outfits specifically to get numerous screenshots to show off features or motifs is disingenuous. This is a highly artificial scenario that doesn't really have any bearing on realistic use of the system.

Here's a more realistic scenario.

Player dyes an outfit that looks good in whatever horrid lighting effect was available to them at the time. Player then goes out into the wilderness and realizes that in natural sunlight, they look like a power ranger on an acid trip. Player then has to go back and pay for another dye job and hope that one is better. Rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat.

Dyeing is free still.

Then it's bugged, because I was charged for it.

If you open the dye station and make sure the toggle in the upper left is set to NO OUTFIT, you are then dying your actual armor and there is no cost. If you click the costume tab to dye the equipped costume there is also no cost. The cost only applies if you are on OUTFIT 1 (or additional # outfit slots)

HeroOfNone

Recremen wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

I think its necessary for more hold sinks as good is easy to make in this game. I think that dye costs should be removed however and eso plus members can use this feature free of charge

There's already so many gold sinks, though! And gold is not that easy to make unless you're strictly farming for gold. If you actually play the content or PvP then gold is actually very precious. Indeed, some systems, like any kind of crafting, will actually have you operating at a loss!

ParaNostram wrote: »

Gold sinks are important for mmo economies.

Cool then the dozen existing gold sinks don't need competition.

Could you list out several of the gold sinks and how this additional sink is negatively impacting your game in anyway different from today on live? It may be a pain to get the hold to get the exact look you've dreamed of, but it shouldn't prevent you from farming out and crafting a look you like from the motifs that you have. You also have costumes as well if it's a dropped set.

To me this is a cosmetic gold sink, like housing. Something that looks nice but won't get you much in terms of better loot, higher dps, or more kills; meaning it's optional. That's just my opinion though.

Voxicity

It's an extremely small amount of gold. Get over it. 30K can be farmed in 10 minutes, or half an hour if less experienced.

Taysa

Sigtric wrote: »

Taysa wrote: »

Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »

Taysa wrote: »

mesmerizedish wrote: »

Using as argument the cost of changing outfits specifically to get numerous screenshots to show off features or motifs is disingenuous. This is a highly artificial scenario that doesn't really have any bearing on realistic use of the system.

Here's a more realistic scenario.

Player dyes an outfit that looks good in whatever horrid lighting effect was available to them at the time. Player then goes out into the wilderness and realizes that in natural sunlight, they look like a power ranger on an acid trip. Player then has to go back and pay for another dye job and hope that one is better. Rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat.

Dyeing is free still.

Then it's bugged, because I was charged for it.

If you open the dye station and make sure the toggle in the upper left is set to NO OUTFIT, you are then dying your actual armor and there is no cost. If you click the costume tab to dye the equipped costume there is also no cost. The cost only applies if you are on OUTFIT 1 (or additional # outfit slots)

I was referring to an OUTFIT to begin with, not a costume/your actual armor.

I even said specifically the word "outfit." It's like you guys didn't read lol

Sigtric

Taysa wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

Taysa wrote: »

Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »

Taysa wrote: »

mesmerizedish wrote: »

Using as argument the cost of changing outfits specifically to get numerous screenshots to show off features or motifs is disingenuous. This is a highly artificial scenario that doesn't really have any bearing on realistic use of the system.

Here's a more realistic scenario.

Player dyes an outfit that looks good in whatever horrid lighting effect was available to them at the time. Player then goes out into the wilderness and realizes that in natural sunlight, they look like a power ranger on an acid trip. Player then has to go back and pay for another dye job and hope that one is better. Rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat.

Dyeing is free still.

Then it's bugged, because I was charged for it.

If you open the dye station and make sure the toggle in the upper left is set to NO OUTFIT, you are then dying your actual armor and there is no cost. If you click the costume tab to dye the equipped costume there is also no cost. The cost only applies if you are on OUTFIT 1 (or additional # outfit slots)

I was referring to an OUTFIT to begin with, not a costume/your actual armor.

I even said specifically the word "outfit." It's like you guys didn't read lol

I blame horrible threading in this. All I saw was this bit. lol


>Dyeing is free still.

>>Then it's bugged, because I was charged for it.

idk

I think OP does not understand the intent if the design.

It's intended that if someone wants multiple appearances they will buy multiple tabs. The only good costs is the initial setting of an appearance. If your constantly changing it then your obviously going to incur a higher costs.

I've seen this in other games, pretty much like this, and it worked just fine. Though there are always some who thing everything should be different.

kojou

Voxicity wrote: »

It's an extremely small amount of gold. Get over it. 30K can be farmed in 10 minutes, or half an hour if less experienced.

Agreed... or do some dailies and crafting writs to pay for it.

MAEK

Could those of you that just say make more money exactly how to make more money? Cause I can't even make close to that kind of cash in such a short amount of time, and therefore the gold cost on the outfit system will be hard on me and players in similar situations.

Recremen

HeroOfNone wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

I think its necessary for more hold sinks as good is easy to make in this game. I think that dye costs should be removed however and eso plus members can use this feature free of charge

There's already so many gold sinks, though! And gold is not that easy to make unless you're strictly farming for gold. If you actually play the content or PvP then gold is actually very precious. Indeed, some systems, like any kind of crafting, will actually have you operating at a loss!

ParaNostram wrote: »

Gold sinks are important for mmo economies.

Cool then the dozen existing gold sinks don't need competition.

Could you list out several of the gold sinks and how this additional sink is negatively impacting your game in anyway different from today on live? It may be a pain to get the hold to get the exact look you've dreamed of, but it shouldn't prevent you from farming out and crafting a look you like from the motifs that you have. You also have costumes as well if it's a dropped set.

To me this is a cosmetic gold sink, like housing. Something that looks nice but won't get you much in terms of better loot, higher dps, or more kills; meaning it's optional. That's just my opinion though.

@HeroOfNone

Current Gold Sinks

• Luxury Vendor
• Golden Vendor
• Houses
• Achievement Furniture
• General Furniture
• Crafting/Furniture Recipes
• Master Writ Items
• Motifs
• Gear
• Riding Lessons
• Crafting Materials

The first few are direct gold sinks, the rest are indirect and depend on your level of engagement. For instance, learning all the Master Writ furniture recipes will, for most people, require that they buy master writs from other people, or buy the recipes directly from others who already got all the master writs needed. Some rare few might get lucky on one character and just get a ton of really good master writs so they can afford it all on their own, and some might do master writs on every character on multiple accounts, but that's not the norm. Same idea with motifs. I farm like the dickens, but even I end up buying some missing motifs here and there, especially on ones like Buoyant Armiger, where they were so rare that people were flat out unwilling or unable to trade duplicates around. Some of these are capped (I just finished riding lessons on my last character a couple weeks ago), but most are a continuous expense.

Now as far as impact goes. I like to engage with all of the above systems. I like to do PvE, PvP, crafting, the works. Having a wide breadth of experiences and tools lets me then make better stories for the community when I have time to do content creation. The outfit system has been something I've been begging for/looking forward to for a long time. And not only have they delivered everything I could have asked for, they went above and beyond my desired feature list. This was going to open up a whole new world for making new content, with almost as much potential as the housing system.

Now the potential is still there, but it comes at even greater costs than what I've already invested to get here. Housing is expensive as heck and I've been pouring huge resources into get stuff prepared for more stories. Having to also juggle a per-use expenditure for aesthetic changes really is that much more of a burden. It feels like an average player is able to experience less and less of the game due to these stacking expenses, and even spending in the cash shop (which I do frequently) can't alleviate the burden. I'm not even an average player, I spend more time in the game than most, and I still feel my schedule being squeezed by all these things you need to grind and all this gold you need to sink.

Also, I feel I've miscommunicated somehow. The problem isn't finding a single look I like. That's easy. I have loads of costumes I love, at least one standard outfit that I know I'm going to buy a slot for, and plenty of ideas for new outfits. It's that last part that's the problem. I want the freedom to experiment with new styles on a regular basis. I want to be able to show the new motifs to my friends when I finish farming them so they can make a better decision regarding whether or not they too want to farm it. I want to do these things without incurring exorbitant expenses. For example, under the current system, did you know that showing off all aspects of the Apostle and Ebonshadow motifs would run you 144k gold? Just to show each motif once. That's ludicrous!

Finally, I get what you're saying about it being an aesthetic thing and not a combat performance thing, but there's no reason to value one more than the other. For many, end-game combat performance is also optional. Indeed, most won't get close to being end-game combat ready. For a lot of people, the real end game is playing magickal cat barbie. They should not be charged a per-use fee for each engagement with the system any more than us PvE or PvP folks should be charged gold to enter a dungeon or Cyro.

HowlKimchi

It's needed to drive the economy.

Recremen

HaruyukiHana wrote: »

It's needed to drive the economy.

Not really.

Nihility42

Gold is so ridiculously easy to make. You won't change your outfit 30k worth every day or even every week, Once you find outfits you like, you'll settle in. Gold sinks are important and the way this is set up the cost is really low. 30k to get outfits set up is insignificant. One decent motif will cost more than that.