Necromancers

VaranisArano

srnekro wrote: »

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VaranisArano wrote: »

srnekro wrote: »

4th, about Death doesnt like us to use his domain. Well, you can view that way. Or, or, listen carefully for this one. Death actully taught the first genaration of Necromancers and they pass this knowlege to future genaration. It's not like Death can't handle it's job, but have a legion of people following, it sure helps the process. Just like the whate ever God priests follow, the light for example, wouldn't like to see some random dude healing another random dude.

As an Elder Scroll Lore Fan, what?

You need to look at the actual in-game lore of necromancy. Start here: http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Necromancy

There's plenty to like and enjoy about necromancy in the Elder Scrolls. Tons of lore. But it has very little to do with this generic necromancy fanboy stuff you've got going on here.

"Death doesnt like us to use his domain. Well, you can view that way. Or, or, listen carefully for this one. Death actully taught the first genaration of Necromancers and they pass this knowlege to future genaration"

No. Just no. That's not how that works in the Elder Scrolls. For one thing, you've got the Ideal Masters, an early Merethic era of necromancers who became ascended beings ruling the Soul Cairn where the souls of those trapped in soul gems wind up. And then you've got Mannimarco, the first of the famous necromancers, no hints of how he learned necromancy, only that he did but who becomes a lich and then eventually the God of Necromancers. Oh, and Arkay, the god of life and death, who absolutely, positively despised necromancy in all its forms. Plus the Dunmer/Chimer ancestor worship/magic that totally isn't necromancy, no serjo, not at all.

(There is no "Death" figure in the Elder Scrolls. Just Arkay, who despises necromancy, and Sithis, who is the Void and the primordial state of chaos who doesn't have anything to do with necromancy.)

That's a taste. There's a ton of fascinating Elder Scrolls lore about necromancy, which major subplots focusing on necromancy in Daggerfall and Oblivion, with plenty of necromancy in Skyrim and Morrowind, to say nothing of its presence in the entire base game of ESO. There's more than enough actual lore to justify including necromancy as a player ability in ESO.

But this generic necromancer fan stuff is bugging me when there is so much more interesting necromancer stuff in the actual Elder Scrolls lore. Call me a lore purist if you want, but if I'm going to support a necromancer class in the Elder Scrolls Online, I insist that the necromancers have to be Elder Scrolls necromancers.

about the arkay thingy, as I said, lore/history can be re-writen. As nothing is permanent on life. That said, just saying that the grudge arkay have towards Necomancer, it seems impossible to hold for ever. I get the point, me too if I was the god of Death, and see humans miss using necromancy (towards evil for example) I would too be pissed. Maybe, further on the lore, some one willr rise up and stand up for the "good"/rightfull use of Necromancy, and Arkay might change it'ts mind. Or maybe not, either way, all I want is to play as a Necromancer. All type of Necromancers are good for me. IF they raise a horde of undead and wear light armor and staff.

Sure. The God of Life and Death, who holds sway of rightful burials and whose blessing prevents necromancers from raising the bodies of the blessed dead or capturing their souls, is going to suddenly change his millennia-old stance on necromancy because someone is going to raise the spirits and bodies of the dead "for good."

No. Seriously. Not how that works.

Arkay says: Honor the earth, its creatures, and the spirits, living and dead. Guard and tend the bounties of the mortal world, and do not profane the spirits of the dead. — Ten Commands: Nine Divines

Shezzarrine

srnekro wrote: »

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VaranisArano wrote: »

srnekro wrote: »

4th, about Death doesnt like us to use his domain. Well, you can view that way. Or, or, listen carefully for this one. Death actully taught the first genaration of Necromancers and they pass this knowlege to future genaration. It's not like Death can't handle it's job, but have a legion of people following, it sure helps the process. Just like the whate ever God priests follow, the light for example, wouldn't like to see some random dude healing another random dude.

As an Elder Scroll Lore Fan, what?

You need to look at the actual in-game lore of necromancy. Start here: http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Necromancy

There's plenty to like and enjoy about necromancy in the Elder Scrolls. Tons of lore. But it has very little to do with this generic necromancy fanboy stuff you've got going on here.

"Death doesnt like us to use his domain. Well, you can view that way. Or, or, listen carefully for this one. Death actully taught the first genaration of Necromancers and they pass this knowlege to future genaration"

No. Just no. That's not how that works in the Elder Scrolls. For one thing, you've got the Ideal Masters, an early Merethic era of necromancers who became ascended beings ruling the Soul Cairn where the souls of those trapped in soul gems wind up. And then you've got Mannimarco, the first of the famous necromancers, no hints of how he learned necromancy, only that he did but who becomes a lich and then eventually the God of Necromancers. Oh, and Arkay, the god of life and death, who absolutely, positively despised necromancy in all its forms. Plus the Dunmer/Chimer ancestor worship/magic that totally isn't necromancy, no serjo, not at all.

(There is no "Death" figure in the Elder Scrolls. Just Arkay, who despises necromancy, and Sithis, who is the Void and the primordial state of chaos who doesn't have anything to do with necromancy.)

That's a taste. There's a ton of fascinating Elder Scrolls lore about necromancy, which major subplots focusing on necromancy in Daggerfall and Oblivion, with plenty of necromancy in Skyrim and Morrowind, to say nothing of its presence in the entire base game of ESO. There's more than enough actual lore to justify including necromancy as a player ability in ESO.

But this generic necromancer fan stuff is bugging me when there is so much more interesting necromancer stuff in the actual Elder Scrolls lore. Call me a lore purist if you want, but if I'm going to support a necromancer class in the Elder Scrolls Online, I insist that the necromancers have to be Elder Scrolls necromancers.

about the arkay thingy, as I said, lore/history can be re-writen. As nothing is permanent on life. That said, just saying that the grudge arkay have towards Necomancer, it seems impossible to hold for ever. I get the point, me too if I was the god of Death, and see humans miss using necromancy (towards evil for example) I would too be pissed. Maybe, further on the lore, some one willr rise up and stand up for the "good"/rightfull use of Necromancy, and Arkay might change it'ts mind. Or maybe not, either way, all I want is to play as a Necromancer. All type of Necromancers are good for me. IF they raise a horde of undead and wear light armor and staff.

Would you please read some lore before acting like you understand it? It's quite obvious from your posts that you understand little about the physical lore and nothing about the metaphysical lore.

Gravord

SydneyGrey wrote: »

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Gravord wrote: »

Anyone can explain me necromancer fanboys motivation? What exactly such class would have to offer? Sorcerer have deadras in his service, skeletons and zombies (apart of cool look) are big downgrade comparing to deadra. So whats the point?

Because we get bored of the same five classes all the time. Five classes isn't that many to choose from.

Weak argument. You will got bored of six classes aswell if five aint enough. Each class can play multiple roles and sure many more roles and playstyles could be created but still waiting for proper argument what exactly such necromancer class would offer except being downgraded sorc who walks around with scrappy skeletons instead deadras.

SydneyGrey

Gravord wrote: »

Weak argument. You will got bored of six classes aswell if five aint enough. Each class can play multiple roles and sure many more roles and playstyles could be created but still waiting for proper argument what exactly such necromancer class would offer except being downgraded sorc who walks around with scrappy skeletons instead deadras.

OK, well here's another argument then. Role-players would love it. Some people might want to run around pretending they're a necromancer, even if other people might think that's silly. So now you have two arguments why a necromancer class would be awesome. I'm not a role-player, but I have to admit, I do make stories for my characters in my head sometimes and have a character that I'd LOVE to turn into a necromancer if I could. It would just be fun.
Personally, I'm just in favor of more options, period. I'd love a new skill line, or a new class, even if it's not a necromancer class. (I'd prefer it was a skill line like Dark Brotherhood rather than a class.)

Gravord

SydneyGrey wrote: »

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Gravord wrote: »

Weak argument. You will got bored of six classes aswell if five aint enough. Each class can play multiple roles and sure many more roles and playstyles could be created but still waiting for proper argument what exactly such necromancer class would offer except being downgraded sorc who walks around with scrappy skeletons instead deadras.

OK, well here's another argument then. Role-players would love it. Some people might want to run around pretending they're a necromancer, even if other people might think that's silly. So now you have two arguments why a necromancer class would be awesome. I'm not a role-player, but I have to admit, I do make stories for my characters in my head sometimes and have a character that I'd LOVE to turn into a necromancer if I could. It would just be fun.
Personally, I'm just in favor of more options, period. I'd love a new skill line, or a new class, even if it's not a necromancer class. (I'd prefer it was a skill line like Dark Brotherhood rather than a class.)

I understand fully rp reasons, but from game mechanic point of view such class would offer really little benefit and a lot of copied mechanics of existing classes. On top of that, skeletons would be rather weak, so they would have to be compensated by bigger amount of them and we all know how well game runs with more chars around.
And if we start adding classes purely on rp merit, theres hundred more options that somebody else could request.

Radiance

I was very opposed to the idea but I am starting to come around the more I see people talking about it... It would be like a stamina summoner, I guess!? There aren't any heavily Green Focused classes so It would be nice to see some Plant/Poison Thorns stamina magic skill tree, I was kinda disappointed with the Warden not having Nature Battle magic in the Green Pact... But I still doubt necromancer will happen... They would have to tie it into another chapter somehow!? And what about these people with 14 characters already!? I can't even imagine... Also all the extra skellies walking around might become overwhelming with all the Bears and Twilights everywhere... As someone mentioned above, the existing classes already lean somewhat towards the dark side, With DK dragonfire and brimstone, Sorcerers Dark magic and Deadric summoning and NB is basically a shadow vampire assassin class...

I would like to see a new weapon implemented or perhaps a Hand2Hand Martial arts update to put a little spice into regular Click-Attack Weapon combos or something...

coop500

Gravord wrote: »

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SydneyGrey wrote: »

Gravord wrote: »

Weak argument. You will got bored of six classes aswell if five aint enough. Each class can play multiple roles and sure many more roles and playstyles could be created but still waiting for proper argument what exactly such necromancer class would offer except being downgraded sorc who walks around with scrappy skeletons instead deadras.

OK, well here's another argument then. Role-players would love it. Some people might want to run around pretending they're a necromancer, even if other people might think that's silly. So now you have two arguments why a necromancer class would be awesome. I'm not a role-player, but I have to admit, I do make stories for my characters in my head sometimes and have a character that I'd LOVE to turn into a necromancer if I could. It would just be fun.
Personally, I'm just in favor of more options, period. I'd love a new skill line, or a new class, even if it's not a necromancer class. (I'd prefer it was a skill line like Dark Brotherhood rather than a class.)

I understand fully rp reasons, but from game mechanic point of view such class would offer really little benefit and a lot of copied mechanics of existing classes. On top of that, skeletons would be rather weak, so they would have to be compensated by bigger amount of them and we all know how well game runs with more chars around.
And if we start adding classes purely on rp merit, theres hundred more options that somebody else could request.

ShapeShifter!? Please? XD

Zordrage

coop500 wrote: »

No, i'm tired of this game catering to evil characters, throw a bone to people 'being good' and it'd be fair, until then forget it.

Tree hugging animal loving Bird , wing and Flower spamming pixyboy Warden......

Did you missed it or something ? got released not long ago......
.

Zordrage

ONLY A MATTER OF TIME!!!!

Jemcrystal

coop500 wrote: »

No, i'm tired of this game catering to evil characters, throw a bone to people 'being good' and it'd be fair, until then forget it.

Only if Necromancers come first. But only then.

Then add a goody vampire hunter class. Something with crossbows and stakes.

Give them daily missions to hunt vamps/ww. Npc only in pve zone. For pvp maybe a smallish zone with castle siege - Werewolf & Vampire vs Hunter Paladin Priests of Stendarr. More emphasis on elaborate homey castles instead of cold unfeeling militant fortresses of Cyrodiil. Let players decorate castles with decor being destroyed if castle successfully sieged - perishable furniture for better economy. Leave work benches intact. Castles have plant'able Columbine gardens on every terrace.

ThePrinceOfBargains

coop500 wrote: »

No, i'm tired of this game catering to evil characters, throw a bone to people 'being good' and it'd be fair, until then forget it.

Is this a joke? Every single quest in the game places your character in the role of the one-dimensional heroic protagonist except the Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild questlines, neither of which fully commit to letting your character be the villain of the storyline. You just can’t quest as an evil character.

The Warden is a DLC class and it’s geared towards good characters, and don’t even get me started on the Templar “Jesus” magic.

VaranisArano

ThePrinceOfBargains wrote: »

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coop500 wrote: »

No, i'm tired of this game catering to evil characters, throw a bone to people 'being good' and it'd be fair, until then forget it.

Is this a joke? Every single quest in the game places your character in the role of the one-dimensional heroic protagonist except the Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild questlines, neither of which fully commit to letting your character be the villain of the storyline. You just can’t quest as an evil character.

The Warden is a DLC class and it’s geared towards good characters, and don’t even get me started on the Templar “Jesus” magic.

Dark Brotherhood is pretty evil. Its just a Chaotic Evil protagonist who's loyal to the family vs. a Lawful Evil antagonist claiming to be acting for the greater good. My rise to Silencer still involved murdering an awful lot of relative innocents.

Thieves Guild now - that's pretty much the Rogue with a heart of gold archetype - so I'll give you that one.

Custos91

SydneyGrey wrote: »

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Gravord wrote: »

Weak argument. You will got bored of six classes aswell if five aint enough. Each class can play multiple roles and sure many more roles and playstyles could be created but still waiting for proper argument what exactly such necromancer class would offer except being downgraded sorc who walks around with scrappy skeletons instead deadras.

OK, well here's another argument then. Role-players would love it. Some people might want to run around pretending they're a necromancer, even if other people might think that's silly. So now you have two arguments why a necromancer class would be awesome. I'm not a role-player, but I have to admit, I do make stories for my characters in my head sometimes and have a character that I'd LOVE to turn into a necromancer if I could. It would just be fun.
Personally, I'm just in favor of more options, period. I'd love a new skill line, or a new class, even if it's not a necromancer class. (I'd prefer it was a skill line like Dark Brotherhood rather than a class.)

Ask redguard Roleplayersabout that...
Redguards will outright murder your char or at least try to, not a good base for roleplaying^^

TheShadowScout

Why not add a magic line based on khajiit-centric spells, then people could be... Nekomancers!

Joking aside...

I still don't see this as a whole class. After all, from the lore "necromancy" is merely a subset of conjuration that some conjuration-happy sorcerors who have more curiosity then respect for forbidden lore dwelve into... sounds to me it ought to be a "prestige class" for sorcerors, yes? Maybe... like: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/369966/class-morph-idea-mk-ii

...and that -would- be the most effective and lore-conforming way to go about the whole business, as part of some big class enhancement system... as part of a "masterclass" DLC perhaps, which adds an option for sorcerors to train as necromancers if they find some friendly necro-scholar to teach them (there is at least one around in Grahtwood as I recall). And loads of other "masteclass trainers" for all the other options, for people to find and start a "learn how to necromance or whatever" questline... it would be fun, yes?

Faulgor

Yes, because everyone loves pet classes. /s

ThePrinceOfBargains

VaranisArano wrote: »

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ThePrinceOfBargains wrote: »

coop500 wrote: »

No, i'm tired of this game catering to evil characters, throw a bone to people 'being good' and it'd be fair, until then forget it.

Is this a joke? Every single quest in the game places your character in the role of the one-dimensional heroic protagonist except the Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild questlines, neither of which fully commit to letting your character be the villain of the storyline. You just can’t quest as an evil character.

The Warden is a DLC class and it’s geared towards good characters, and don’t even get me started on the Templar “Jesus” magic.

Dark Brotherhood is pretty evil. Its just a Chaotic Evil protagonist who's loyal to the family vs. a Lawful Evil antagonist claiming to be acting for the greater good. My rise to Silencer still involved murdering an awful lot of relative innocents.

Thieves Guild now - that's pretty much the Rogue with a heart of gold archetype - so I'll give you that one.

It’s not that they’re not evil; it’s that ZOS constantly tries to downplay it by painting the Order of the Hour as being just as bad or even worse at times. I know some people liked that “morally grey” thing, but I wasn’t a fan. It felt like cop-out storytelling. None of the factions are perfect in morality, but it felt like ZOS was going out of their way to make the Order of the Hour look despicable. Then all the people we assassinated for the story were equally despicable, unlikable ***, which I again saw as an attempt to somewhat cushion the fact that we’re murdering people. Then you have to consider the fact the entire storyline revolves around getting revenge for deaths in the “family,” again making us more sympathetic.

ZOS just won’t commit to letting our characters be despicable villains working against a heroic, hope-filled force. That’s one area SWTOR will always have ESO beat in. Unlike in SWTOR’s dark side stories, there was never a time where I felt even a little bad for someone I killed in the DB story because the victims were all made to be unlikable *** working for a faction of unlikable ***. If there’s never a time where I’m feeling bad or almost bad for doing something, or if I can’t picture my character as the villain during the dialogue, then I’m not playing as the villain. I’m playing as a sympathetic criminal. There’s a difference.

JamuThatsWho

Faulgor wrote: »

Yes, because everyone loves pet classes. /s

I do...

ascan7

Is it really so hard to make a lore-friendly necromancer?
We have lore-friendly vampires who were just tired of Molag Bal and betrayed him.
Can't we have lore-friendly necromancers who were just tired of Mannimarco and betrayed him? (and that's why he executes you at the beginning of the game, maybe?)
A little copied from wow but who cares

U_D_D_I_N_R

People need to stop hyping up this class cause we know it’s gonna be like the warden, it’s definitely not gonna be a p2w class but something similar like the warden

srnekro

VaranisArano wrote: »

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srnekro wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

srnekro wrote: »

4th, about Death doesnt like us to use his domain. Well, you can view that way. Or, or, listen carefully for this one. Death actully taught the first genaration of Necromancers and they pass this knowlege to future genaration. It's not like Death can't handle it's job, but have a legion of people following, it sure helps the process. Just like the whate ever God priests follow, the light for example, wouldn't like to see some random dude healing another random dude.

As an Elder Scroll Lore Fan, what?

You need to look at the actual in-game lore of necromancy. Start here: http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Necromancy

There's plenty to like and enjoy about necromancy in the Elder Scrolls. Tons of lore. But it has very little to do with this generic necromancy fanboy stuff you've got going on here.

"Death doesnt like us to use his domain. Well, you can view that way. Or, or, listen carefully for this one. Death actully taught the first genaration of Necromancers and they pass this knowlege to future genaration"

No. Just no. That's not how that works in the Elder Scrolls. For one thing, you've got the Ideal Masters, an early Merethic era of necromancers who became ascended beings ruling the Soul Cairn where the souls of those trapped in soul gems wind up. And then you've got Mannimarco, the first of the famous necromancers, no hints of how he learned necromancy, only that he did but who becomes a lich and then eventually the God of Necromancers. Oh, and Arkay, the god of life and death, who absolutely, positively despised necromancy in all its forms. Plus the Dunmer/Chimer ancestor worship/magic that totally isn't necromancy, no serjo, not at all.

(There is no "Death" figure in the Elder Scrolls. Just Arkay, who despises necromancy, and Sithis, who is the Void and the primordial state of chaos who doesn't have anything to do with necromancy.)

That's a taste. There's a ton of fascinating Elder Scrolls lore about necromancy, which major subplots focusing on necromancy in Daggerfall and Oblivion, with plenty of necromancy in Skyrim and Morrowind, to say nothing of its presence in the entire base game of ESO. There's more than enough actual lore to justify including necromancy as a player ability in ESO.

But this generic necromancer fan stuff is bugging me when there is so much more interesting necromancer stuff in the actual Elder Scrolls lore. Call me a lore purist if you want, but if I'm going to support a necromancer class in the Elder Scrolls Online, I insist that the necromancers have to be Elder Scrolls necromancers.

about the arkay thingy, as I said, lore/history can be re-writen. As nothing is permanent on life. That said, just saying that the grudge arkay have towards Necomancer, it seems impossible to hold for ever. I get the point, me too if I was the god of Death, and see humans miss using necromancy (towards evil for example) I would too be pissed. Maybe, further on the lore, some one willr rise up and stand up for the "good"/rightfull use of Necromancy, and Arkay might change it'ts mind. Or maybe not, either way, all I want is to play as a Necromancer. All type of Necromancers are good for me. IF they raise a horde of undead and wear light armor and staff.

Sure. The God of Life and Death, who holds sway of rightful burials and whose blessing prevents necromancers from raising the bodies of the blessed dead or capturing their souls, is going to suddenly change his millennia-old stance on necromancy because someone is going to raise the spirits and bodies of the dead "for good."

No. Seriously. Not how that works.

Arkay says: Honor the earth, its creatures, and the spirits, living and dead. Guard and tend the bounties of the mortal world, and do not profane the spirits of the dead. — Ten Commands: Nine Divines

Maybe some dead want to be avanged. Maybe some undead want or will want to ask a Necromancer for a chance to avange his own death since the god of life and Death won't do it. Maybe the dead want some recognitaion aswell.

Time is always changing. Even in our own, so called "modern" society is not permanent. What we call normal and modern, will be called savage and old, just like the old times. Time is always changing, and if we don't change with it, we will be forsaken on our own history. Don't forget that.

srnekro

In another hand, I realy would like to know why Demons is ok to summon and the dead isn't. I mean, what's the hype? I don't want to start a war, saying the Dead is way cooler, I just want that they have a time on the spotlight as any other class already have. Why all the glory of summoners class have to go to the Demon Worship dude. Give the dead some acklogment, damit.

Also, Necromancers was one of the primordial classes of D&D who basically founded this RPG nonsense.

srnekro

And how come Necromancy won't give anything new? How come only a skill line will suffice for the Necromancy??

Necromancer doesn't just raise the dead. They can animate pretty much anything. They bend life AND death to their will. They can make giant skeleton hands from the corpses of their enemies to purge more enemies and make even more corpse.
They can use their blood and the blood from their enemies to forge unholly weapons. They can make flesh and bones construct to trap and slown their enemies.
They can mix and realse several types of toxic miasma to poison and erase all life and existance on several meters (yeah meters, s#ck my unit of measurement).

Necromancy can give you a ton of new stuff that more like you'll never found on any other game.

With corpses on your disposal, with the power to bend life and dead, and the power to call the souls from the soul carrien back for more and to raise the dead, necromancers can make things happen that any other class can't.

Necromancers are unique as any other class is, so why the hate and the hype to keep this gem on the dark forever?

it's time to stop. Necromancers can give you a gameplay that you though it wasn't even possible to bring. All you need to do is be open minded.

VaranisArano

srnekro wrote: »

In another hand, I realy would like to know why Demons is ok to summon and the dead isn't. I mean, what's the hype? I don't want to start a war, saying the Dead is way cooler, I just want that they have a time on the spotlight as any other class already have. Why all the glory of summoners class have to go to the Demon Worship dude. Give the dead some acklogment, damit.

Also, Necromancers was one of the primordial classes of D&D who basically founded this RPG nonsense.

The reason you see summoning daedra (not demons) and reanimating undead grouped together is that the Elder Scrolls game have generally put them under the same category of magic: Conjuration.

So that's actually a point in favor of necromancy. Past Elder Scrolls games have allowed the hero to summon various undead and Skyrim let you outright reanimate your dead enemies.

Since Sorcs in ESO can summon daedra, there's no actual reason that ESO couldn't also include summoning undead minions. There's plenty of precedent in past Elder Scrolls games for player characters to summon both daedra and undead.

See? That's how you make an argument based in Elder Scrolls lore. Not by appealing to D&D (an inspiration but by no means predictive of how things work in Elder Scrolls) or by making up gameplay effects that have nothing to do with what we know necromancers can do in the Elder Scrolls universe.

I would by fine with necromancers in the Elder Scrolls Online, just like I was fine with player character necromancy in Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim. But I insist that those necromancers must be Elder Scrolls necromancers.

TheShadowScout

srnekro wrote: »

Necromancer doesn't just raise the dead. They can animate pretty much anything.

No, they can't.
They don't raise the dead either, that is what soul gems are used for.
They use daedric spirits to animate dead flesh and bone. Normal bodies as undead or with some work as frankenstein-ic flesh/bone atronarch type constructs.
They summon the spirits of the dead.

Animating anything would be a different spellset... as it would produce animated empty suits of armor, animated statues, animated dolls, animated clockwork constructs (hey!), animated clay golems, animated wooden targeting dummoies... you get the point, right? None of those are or ever were associated with "necromancy", right? (not unless someone put a dead persons spirit into them anyhow)

srnekro wrote: »

They bend life AND death to their will. They can make giant skeleton hands from the corpses of their enemies to purge more enemies and make even more corpse.

More like... make ghostly skeleton hands to grab and impede their enemies.
But nothijng involving life, really... unless its the end of it.

srnekro wrote: »

They can use their blood and the blood from their enemies to forge unholly weapons.

No, they can't.
The red daggers are more like nightblade stuff... the blood stuff is more like a vampire thing...

srnekro wrote: »

They can make flesh and bones construct to trap and slown their enemies.

Ghost constructs and curses to trap and slow, yes.
Flesh and bone... eh... well, flesh atronarchs and bone colossi, sure, so more in that flavor would fit right in as well.

srnekro wrote: »

They can mix and realse several types of toxic miasma to poison and erase all life and existance on several meters

No they can't.
That's dragonknights on stamina. Some flesh colossi with -really- putrid stuff brewing in their inards. And possibly alchemists, if they ever figure out how to mix their poisons into an aerosol grenade type of mix...

...

In TES, "necromancer" - IS all about death magic and nothing else. Imbuing corpses with daedric spirits to animate them. Using "negative life energy" type of magics. Summoning the souls of the departed and bending them to your will. Gaining power from your enemies death. Bending over for Molag Bal and singing his praises.
That sort of thing.
No blood magic (nightblades and vampires), no poison magic, no life control magic, no ice magic, no unholy (aka, daedric summoning) magic (though an argument can be made that necromancy itself is pretty unholy in the eyes of most tamrieltastic religions!).

VaranisArano

TheShadowScout wrote: »

In TES, "necromancer" - IS all about death magic and nothing else. Imbuing corpses with daedric spirits to animate them. Using "negative life energy" type of magics. Summoning the souls of the departed and bending them to your will. Gaining power from your enemies death. Bending over for Molag Bal and singing his praises.
That sort of thing.
No blood magic (nightblades and vampires), no poison magic, no life control magic, no ice magic, no unholy (aka, daedric summoning) magic (though an argument can be made that necromancy itself is pretty unholy in the eyes of most tamrieltastic religions!).

You do have the exceptional necromancers, like Mannimarco who is a geniune master of most schools of magic, but those are more along the lines of the exception that proves the rule.

Necromancy as a part of the Conjuration school is pretty much as you describe.

SydneyGrey

Custos91 wrote: »

Ask redguard Roleplayersabout that...
Redguards will outright murder your char or at least try to, not a good base for roleplaying^^

And?
Most Tamriel residents hate the Dark Brotherhood and assassins, but we have that as a DLC and skill line.

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO

again this?...get real.

Ankael07

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »

again this?...get real.

We have a necromantic skin and personality coming so yeah... its getting real alright.

Putting lore aside and looking from a combat perspective, we could use a ''debuff'' class much like how Warden is a support.
A class that utilizes underused debuffs like maim, mangle and vulnerability (major) would help fight the stat stacking burst meta. Not that I dislike such gameplay but we need more variety in that regard.

And a new debuff idea: Decrease max magicka or stamina by X percent (just like minor mangle decreases 10% health)

srnekro

I understand that the lore of the elder scrolls franchise is gold to some, and diamond to others.
I understand that you want to protect what you love. What you care for.

And yes, I don't know much of the lore on general. I don't like it very much to be honest. Because of the abuse, mistreate and the negligence and underrate of my beloved Necromancers. I dispise Arkay and its choices.

How ever, my sincerely apologizes if I misstreated your beloved lore with my foul words. But, all I want to say is, let's think that this universe is real. I refuse to believe that this would not have a continual history. I mean, like us, our society, have passed through countless advancements, evolution progress since the dawn of fire ... and maybe we've been trhough stages that we do not even know.
However, here we are. That's my point.

The Necromancers is as they are right now. But, I want to believe that they (the devs) will continue this beutiful saga (TES) and I want to belive that the Necromancers will play a big part on it, and not be just the bad guy on it.

I want to open a light in a dark corner to show you, and everyone that there is way more what we can do wtih Necromancers. Yes, I know Necros are unique on this universe and they don't do much, but I believe on evolution. I believe if we do the same thing, over and over again, with differents paths and etcs, I believe we can learn, we can improve, we can evolve.

I believe on the evolution of this particular Necromancer, to grow on something greater and larger.

I believe on the evolution of TES Necromancer, and I want you to believe with me.

Because a greater evil may rise at any moment, besides Molag Bal, to destroy tamriel. And I want to see the dead rise once more to help defend it.

Long live the Undead. For when the light reach its limit and can't aid, the darkness will show you the way.

TheShadowScout

srnekro wrote: »

And yes, I don't know much of the lore on general. I don't like it very much to be honest. Because of the abuse, mistreate and the negligence and underrate of my beloved Necromancers. I dispise Arkay and its choices...

Arkay isn't the only divine in town! Okay, so Meridia also hates undead for the most part... and so do most of Tamriel.

Still, while the lore would making necromancers as -class- iffy, with the mainstory and such, there is really nothing preventing them as guild or specialization that could become available for players someday...

There is at least one necromancer who told Mannimarco and by extension Molag Bal where to stick it, and left the side of evil. You get to help her in one of the grahtwood quests. And her dearly departed yet still around family as well, one way or another. Could be that some future change might make her a "Necromancer masterclass trainer"...

Also, despite "One Tamriel", technically the DLCs happen -after- the mainstory (as evidenced by the broken dolmen in craglorn for example, or the general lack of daedric fissure-incurstions in DLC regions), so a new DLC with an "here is a magical mask, infiltrate the remains of the worm cult and find out what they are planning now..." theme would fit right in - and might be a good place to hide an option for sorcerors to learn how to necromance (...sorcery is not necromancy, but the latter is still a subset of the conjuration spells, which in ESO are mostly a domain of sorcerors - they usually just stop at conjuring daedric beastiers rather then go full death magic)

Yes, Necromancers are trouble all across Tamriel, law-wise, lore-wise.
So are dark brotherhood assassins. Didn't stop us much, did it now?

So... its all up to ZOS. They could choose to do it. If so, I would prefer it the way I suggested, as a sorceror class morph... but it would just as well be a guild, or a world skill line. But in the end, its their choice if they want to go there.