Fake Healers

Slick_007

Pele wrote: »

A ban from group finder if you've been votekicked x number of times is a good idea.

so this gets implemented, and i end up in a group with you. i think you're stupid because i dont like your comments on here, i think everyone who likes this idea is a stupid a-hole. So i pay the other two guys in the group to vote kick you. Suddenly, you cant group anymore. Still like the idea?

oh, and thats before the dungeon even starts.

Uviryth

Its the ESOsystem, that horrible horrible "you cant do two things at once because you have to respecc everytime"-system that forces people into doing that.

For instance, I would love to be a Healer/Tank for dungeons, I even have the equipment on my bank. But in order to do that I would have to respecc my stats and respecc my Morphs, because my main focus is Stamina-DPS, and I´m not crazy enough to do that.

So unless ZOS FINALLY comes up with damn dualspecc there will never be enough real Tanks/Healers.

Seriously, its 2018 for crying out loud. How can respeccing like in DaoC in 2001 still be a thing? Even WoW who is now 14 years old has Dual/Triplespecc.

zaria

Iselin wrote: »

I can heal, and heal well, normal dungeons including DLC on any of my hybrid DPS/Healer Magicka characters.

But the thing is that...

1. I take the healing part of the job seriously and it's my priority when I'm the healer
2. Even my "lowbee" alts have 690 CP
3. I know all the dungeons forward and backwards

A good DPS/healer hybrid who can contribute 10K+ DPS on a normal run is actually better than a dedicated healer on those normal dungeon runs just how a real DPS/Tank hybrid with a taunt and add pack gathering abilities/skills but also decent DPS is.

The problem with fake healers is when you have bad players who don't have any of the 3 prerequisites above just slap a resto staff on their back bar and try to pose as a healer.

They can get away with and be carried if they're doing an easy dungeon or with 3 other good players who know what they're doing. If they get the wrong dungeon or the wrong 3 other players they are a cancerous disaster that can screw-up a run even worse than a fake, no-taunt tank can.

Fake tanks have been with us for a long time but fake healers are a fairly recent queue-jumper thing.

Healer is supposed to add in as DD then not healing or buffing in dungeons.
In many fights mutagen + combat prayer is enough. It depend on dungeon and group, good groups in easy dungeons, not much healing is needed but buffs are nice.
weak group and buffs are pretty much an waste of time better do damage.
Also depend on content, if you don't know dungeon or group play safe.
For templars, you can block cancel sweeps if some take heavy damage

Now, nobody kick healers for doing to low dps, you can heal normals with just an restoration staff, put ele drain of front bar and you are an real healer.

Gadrael

Instead of bans, kicking etc, i would prefer system where you can mark your group members (f.e. thumb up, thumb down) and it would be later used in finder. F.e. when you thumb down someone, they will be never put with you in the same group by finder. It would be much less toxic than bans.

Considering complains about fake healers - while I agree that there is a lot people who mark themselves as healers without any healing skills, often complaining people are the problem themselves. If tank is on the brink of death two seconds after every pull in non dlc normal dungeon, healer is not the problem...

Ilithyania

depends on the content.

and yes I am guilty of this crime

Invoca

dyn0m1k3 wrote: »

So I've been guilty of doing this (on normal mode only...). Trying to level undaunted on my DD on Xbox EU and queuing for a specific dungeon is a joke. I always grab the daily pledge if its available but sometimes don't have time to do it so I'll try and complete it another day when its not the daily which I guess doesn't help. I'll normally give it 20 minutes queueing as DPS while I do other things then give up and queue as DPS/Healer.

So far I haven't had any issues with completing a normal dungeon (don't have the DLC either which probably helps) and if anything it probably goes quicker with 3 DDs. I still feel bad though incase we run into any problems - should I? I wouldn't queue as a tank because if no-ones taking aggro then the group will probably keep wiping, but normal non-DLC dungeons really don't need a healer unless your pretty bad at your role right?

1. When you enter a dungeon as healer do you have any group heal slotted?
2. When you run into issues, is it in a base low level dungeon with low level players (say below level 30)?

If your answers are 1. No, 2. Yes. Then I think you should feel bad about it. In dungeons I've met people up to level 26 who have whispered me after a dungeon asking for advice because it was their first or second dungeon run ever. Many of them really could use a bit of extra help since the game doesn't outright tell them that it's a good idea to use some self-sustain etc. Not all of them will ask someone or ask someone who is willing to help them.

I'm not saying they need someone that can heal them through standing in AoE, just someone to look out when mistakes are made or they get an inevitable hit or two since they're likely to have less resistances than people with CP.

This is also why I'll only pug with my Warden tank. On her I can slot a few heals if it turns out the healer has none and all is fine. I won't die and usually no one else will either.

After two pugs on my DK tank with fake stam healers that blatantly had not a single group heal slotted I stopped queuing for pugs with her. I can do fine without healing, the low levels we were running with one time didn't.



As regards to having heals slotted to queue, I don't think they should get locked as people do swap skills and I don't mind whether it'd be a class or staff heal. Just a check that "Oh yeah, you can do this if you feel so inclined. Cool." My Templar healer uses mainly the resto staff healing abilities for actual healing, BoL is mainly slotted in pugs because you don't know what interesting flavour of stupid you may end up with.


As for going by number of successful votekicks, what if a healer gets kicked for a reason other than being an incompetent healer? Or someone tries to kick a DD for being extremely competent? (I kid you not, someone tried it.)

There really needs to be some independent checks for a system like this to work in my opinion.

dyn0m1k3

Invoca wrote: »

dyn0m1k3 wrote: »

So I've been guilty of doing this (on normal mode only...). Trying to level undaunted on my DD on Xbox EU and queuing for a specific dungeon is a joke. I always grab the daily pledge if its available but sometimes don't have time to do it so I'll try and complete it another day when its not the daily which I guess doesn't help. I'll normally give it 20 minutes queueing as DPS while I do other things then give up and queue as DPS/Healer.

So far I haven't had any issues with completing a normal dungeon (don't have the DLC either which probably helps) and if anything it probably goes quicker with 3 DDs. I still feel bad though incase we run into any problems - should I? I wouldn't queue as a tank because if no-ones taking aggro then the group will probably keep wiping, but normal non-DLC dungeons really don't need a healer unless your pretty bad at your role right?

1. When you enter a dungeon as healer do you have any group heal slotted?
2. When you run into issues, is it in a base low level dungeon with low level players (say below level 30)?

If your answers are 1. No, 2. Yes. Then I think you should feel bad about it. In dungeons I've met people up to level 26 who have whispered me after a dungeon asking for advice because it was their first or second dungeon run ever. Many of them really could use a bit of extra help since the game doesn't outright tell them that it's a good idea to use some self-sustain etc. Not all of them will ask someone or ask someone who is willing to help them.

I'm not saying they need someone that can heal them through standing in AoE, just someone to look out when mistakes are made or they get an inevitable hit or two since they're likely to have less resistances than people with CP.

This is also why I'll only pug with my Warden tank. On her I can slot a few heals if it turns out the healer has none and all is fine. I won't die and usually no one else will either.

After two pugs on my DK tank with fake stam healers that blatantly had not a single group heal slotted I stopped queuing for pugs with her. I can do fine without healing, the low levels we were running with one time didn't.



As regards to having heals slotted to queue, I don't think they should get locked as people do swap skills and I don't mind whether it'd be a class or staff heal. Just a check that "Oh yeah, you can do this if you feel so inclined. Cool." My Templar healer uses mainly the resto staff healing abilities for actual healing, BoL is mainly slotted in pugs because you don't know what interesting flavour of stupid you may end up with.


As for going by number of successful votekicks, what if a healer gets kicked for a reason other than being an incompetent healer? Or someone tries to kick a DD for being extremely competent? (I kid you not, someone tried it.)

There really needs to be some independent checks for a system like this to work in my opinion.

So yea that is what I'm worried / feel guilty about while queueing as healer (which is why I try not to first!). But like I said so far I haven't actually come across any issues doing this in normal dungeons. Generally my DPS is good enough that even if there are <lvl50 players struggling as long as the tank is decent we can finish off most encounters anyway.

zaria

dyn0m1k3 wrote: »

Invoca wrote: »

dyn0m1k3 wrote: »

So I've been guilty of doing this (on normal mode only...). Trying to level undaunted on my DD on Xbox EU and queuing for a specific dungeon is a joke. I always grab the daily pledge if its available but sometimes don't have time to do it so I'll try and complete it another day when its not the daily which I guess doesn't help. I'll normally give it 20 minutes queueing as DPS while I do other things then give up and queue as DPS/Healer.

So far I haven't had any issues with completing a normal dungeon (don't have the DLC either which probably helps) and if anything it probably goes quicker with 3 DDs. I still feel bad though incase we run into any problems - should I? I wouldn't queue as a tank because if no-ones taking aggro then the group will probably keep wiping, but normal non-DLC dungeons really don't need a healer unless your pretty bad at your role right?

1. When you enter a dungeon as healer do you have any group heal slotted?
2. When you run into issues, is it in a base low level dungeon with low level players (say below level 30)?

If your answers are 1. No, 2. Yes. Then I think you should feel bad about it. In dungeons I've met people up to level 26 who have whispered me after a dungeon asking for advice because it was their first or second dungeon run ever. Many of them really could use a bit of extra help since the game doesn't outright tell them that it's a good idea to use some self-sustain etc. Not all of them will ask someone or ask someone who is willing to help them.

I'm not saying they need someone that can heal them through standing in AoE, just someone to look out when mistakes are made or they get an inevitable hit or two since they're likely to have less resistances than people with CP.

This is also why I'll only pug with my Warden tank. On her I can slot a few heals if it turns out the healer has none and all is fine. I won't die and usually no one else will either.

After two pugs on my DK tank with fake stam healers that blatantly had not a single group heal slotted I stopped queuing for pugs with her. I can do fine without healing, the low levels we were running with one time didn't.



As regards to having heals slotted to queue, I don't think they should get locked as people do swap skills and I don't mind whether it'd be a class or staff heal. Just a check that "Oh yeah, you can do this if you feel so inclined. Cool." My Templar healer uses mainly the resto staff healing abilities for actual healing, BoL is mainly slotted in pugs because you don't know what interesting flavour of stupid you may end up with.


As for going by number of successful votekicks, what if a healer gets kicked for a reason other than being an incompetent healer? Or someone tries to kick a DD for being extremely competent? (I kid you not, someone tried it.)

There really needs to be some independent checks for a system like this to work in my opinion.

So yea that is what I'm worried / feel guilty about while queueing as healer (which is why I try not to first!). But like I said so far I haven't actually come across any issues doing this in normal dungeons. Generally my DPS is good enough that even if there are <lvl50 players struggling as long as the tank is decent we can finish off most encounters anyway.

As long as the tank to is not fake / weak
Tank thought that healer could keep him alive
Dungeon is darkshade 2 or CoA2.

Chadak

I only run most dungeons with people because I get a daily bonus for using the dungeon finder.

Otherwise, I solo or duo most of them.

What do we call it when I do the entire dungeon by myself?

ArcaneBlue

I most certainly am not a fan of fake tanks and healers (bad DDs are bad too but they at least are DPSing...) but how about, instead of a system that may or may not be abused somehow, a tick box to queue for "non-traditional" group?
the tick box would allow players to form non traditional groups, say, 1 tank and 3 DDs, 4 DDs, 1 healer and 3 DDs and may alleviate the wait time for solo DPS queue

my main is a healer and I am a little saddened to see some (if not many) people think "real" healers are redundant because I just enjoy being a support role. I still love my healer characters though

notimetocare

One_ofMany wrote: »

Seems like there has been an epidemic of fake healers this past week.
Some too busy doing DPS to bother with much healing and others not even healing at all. It's driving me crazy!
We really need a way to punish bad behavior like that. Maybe so many negative group votes/kicks in a week and they get locked out of the Activity Finder for a few days.

Never had this issue. Unless my group is stupid, I barely have to heals. So I do damage. Shorter fights and dungeons are better.

If you are having an issue, check the skills mirror first

LeagueTroll

One_ofMany wrote: »

Seems like there has been an epidemic of fake healers this past week.
Some too busy doing DPS to bother with much healing and others not even healing at all. It's driving me crazy!
We really need a way to punish bad behavior like that. Maybe so many negative group votes/kicks in a week and they get locked out of the Activity Finder for a few days.

Git gud, if the group is doing nuf dmg, the healer don’t need to do dmg at all. So obv it is the fault of trash tier dps.

Invoca

@dyn0m1k3 Maybe you've already thought about it but should you encounter issues involving small ones I'd slot Blood Altar in your position. Even if you're stam DD it'll provide them with some heals in case the tank is a fake and it ends up a bit messy. At least that way you can be sure you're not the worst fake healer out there should something go wrong.

ArcaneBlue wrote: »

I most certainly am not a fan of fake tanks and healers (bad DDs are bad too but they at least are DPSing...) but how about, instead of a system that may or may not be abused somehow, a tick box to queue for "non-traditional" group?
the tick box would allow players to form non traditional groups, say, 1 tank and 3 DDs, 4 DDs, 1 healer and 3 DDs and may alleviate the wait time for solo DPS queue

my main is a healer and I am a little saddened to see some (if not many) people think "real" healers are redundant because I just enjoy being a support role. I still love my healer characters though

I like this idea, it could be really useful for dealing with it without the punishments of other methods. That way the people that can easily, and wish to, do dungeons with primarily/only DDs could do it that way. And those of us that prefer playing tanks and healers wouldn't feel quite so redundant when the dungeon ends up being an easy one.

MarbleQuiche

I've been running dungeons again recently. They're a great way to level characters during double XP events.

Love healing. All my characters are healers. I'm good at it. Yet still get called out as a fake healer now and then.

Here's the truth, DPS people. When the healer is doing more damage than both of you combined you've no leg to stand on. Many times over the past weeks I've been in a group with two DPSes like this and a fake tank. Dungeons have gotten so simple that in full cloth I can keep you all healed and tank the boss myself. I've stopped using CP on new characters. That's how easy it is.

If you die because you think the healer missed a beat you better understand healing inside out before you criticise. Most of the deaths I've seen have been one-shot or full health to zero in two seconds. The second is particularly galling because I use mutagen, a HoT that will pretty much stick you back to full health if you have a near death experience.

Too many people don't understand that healers can be healing and doing DPS at the same time. Too many people are standing in stupid. Too many people get floored by stupid and continue standing in it. This means healer can't switch to active healing in time to save you. Too many people now expect healer to pull them through the whole dungeons. They want a healer who is always healing. They have no idea there's nobody playing tank role and healer is having to do that too bevause they're the only person they can trust to not drag boss away from damage or to stand in stupid. And they haven't got the DPS to finish the dungeon in a normal time. It's almost always quicker if you're dead because the healer doesn't have to waste resource on someone who's giving nothing back.

tldr; Success in this game's dungeons has always been heavily on a healer's shoulders. As the game has gotten easier and easier more and more has been placed onto the healer as others literally refuse to play their roles.

Maura_Neysa

MarbleQuiche wrote: »

I've been running dungeons again recently. They're a great way to level characters during double XP events.

Love healing. All my characters are healers. I'm good at it. Yet still get called out as a fake healer now and then.

Here's the truth, DPS people. When the healer is doing more damage than both of you combined you've no leg to stand on. Many times over the past weeks I've been in a group with two DPSes like this and a fake tank. Dungeons have gotten so simple that in full cloth I can keep you all healed and tank the boss myself. I've stopped using CP on new characters. That's how easy it is.

If you die because you think the healer missed a beat you better understand healing inside out before you criticise. Most of the deaths I've seen have been one-shot or full health to zero in two seconds. The second is particularly galling because I use mutagen, a HoT that will pretty much stick you back to full health if you have a near death experience.

Too many people don't understand that healers can be healing and doing DPS at the same time. Too many people are standing in stupid. Too many people get floored by stupid and continue standing in it. This means healer can't switch to active healing in time to save you. Too many people now expect healer to pull them through the whole dungeons. They want a healer who is always healing. They have no idea there's nobody playing tank role and healer is having to do that too bevause they're the only person they can trust to not drag boss away from damage or to stand in stupid. And they haven't got the DPS to finish the dungeon in a normal time. It's almost always quicker if you're dead because the healer doesn't have to waste resource on someone who's giving nothing back.

tldr; Success in this game's dungeons has always been heavily on a healer's shoulders. As the game has gotten easier and easier more and more has been placed onto the healer as others literally refuse to play their roles.

I've been leveling a Magden DPS in this event, I have a Frost Staff back bar and I main a tank. It's been very nice being able to pull agro when I get in that kind of run. Weaving Harness pretty much (not hard because my spamable is Shalks) works nicely in a no tank run.

FrancisCrawford

I finally had a group fail on a boss.

I've been leveling my DK by healing random normals, but technically he's been queuing as heals or DPS and he wound up as a DPS in Arx Corinium. I changed to DPS bars and off we went.

But we could NOT kill the Fanged Menace, due to her self-heals. If they were interruptible, I didn't know how. When it was all over, I looked at my logs. I'd been doing about 6.5K DPS (I know, not the greatest -- but this is a class I don't know well, I was wearing leveling gear, and I did need to do some healing). According to Combat Log Metrics, that was 90% of the total!!!!!!

Now, CLM is hardly precise about things like that. Still -- WTF were the other players (two of them at Level 50) doing???

MarbleQuiche

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

I finally had a group fail on a boss.

I've been leveling my DK by healing random normals, but technically he's been queuing as heals or DPS and he wound up as a DPS in Arx Corinium. I changed to DPS bars and off we went.

But we could NOT kill the Fanged Menace, due to her self-heals. If they were interruptible, I didn't know how. When it was all over, I looked at my logs. I'd been doing about 6.5K DPS (I know, not the greatest -- but this is a class I don't know well, I was wearing leveling gear, and I did need to do some healing). According to Combat Log Metrics, that was 90% of the total!!!!!!

Now, CLM is hardly precise about things like that. Still -- WTF were the other players (two of them at Level 50) doing???

She doesn't exactly have a self-heal. She heals by people standing too near to her. When stupid is on the ground, step out of it. Simples

exeeter702

Step one - we observe the possibly that players queue up as "fake" roles to get around gross queue times. For this you create incentive for roles that are in demand, ie tank and to a lesser extent healer. When using the GF provide an additional role bonus upon a clear to inject more tanks into the tool and thus positively effecting the queue times. The concern of this implementation is that it would even further inventivize dps to queue as tank for extra rewards. I dont believe this would be an issue as being unable to properly tank is obvious and a clean vote kick would be easy. Unless of course they are simply uninformed and struggling in the role which brings me to step 2.

Step 2 - lock GF out until lvl 15 and implement a feature that has seen varying degrees of success in other mmos. Create a specifically tuned solo instance dedicated to each of the 3 roles. These short solo trials can put mild stress on the player to perform the role with different scnearios to qualify them to the role. Only when a player clears one of these solo trials is the role of which the cleared trial is accociated, is that role selection made available in the GF menu. The difficulty should be relatively easy, but impossible to clear if you lack or do not use the necessary skills required at a basic level.

Maura_Neysa

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

I finally had a group fail on a boss.

I've been leveling my DK by healing random normals, but technically he's been queuing as heals or DPS and he wound up as a DPS in Arx Corinium. I changed to DPS bars and off we went.

But we could NOT kill the Fanged Menace, due to her self-heals. If they were interruptible, I didn't know how. When it was all over, I looked at my logs. I'd been doing about 6.5K DPS (I know, not the greatest -- but this is a class I don't know well, I was wearing leveling gear, and I did need to do some healing). According to Combat Log Metrics, that was 90% of the total!!!!!!

Now, CLM is hardly precise about things like that. Still -- WTF were the other players (two of them at Level 50) doing???

@FrancisCrawford don't stand in the AOE around it while its curled up. Thats how you stop the self heal.

RexyCat

teladoy wrote: »

There are fakes of everything, healers, tanks and dps. There is people that like to be carry thinking that one less means nothing.

Best example of that is when one is standing at door to dungeon and don't answer why he/she isn't following us. (Could be legit reason like child/pet needing attention or computer messed up) Some time it is just better to get on with it and finish dungeon instead of dealing with another player (letting GT find a new player). Carry a player isn't problem as long other player isn't getting killed too often or there are some special mechanic that need a full group to complete.

____
What I really dislike is when "healer" only throw up Blood Alters (and their morphs) with nothing else like HoTs or Wards, which is absolutely useless for healing (as it only heals from activating synergy; with all synergy going on from other skills makes it unreliable for heals; it is only healing the person activating synergy). Healing Wards or Mutagen at least can keep some people alive if they get hit with more damage then they expect (even if they have their own ways to heal them self or group). Something in this discussion is lacking is that a healer actually do more then just heals; they can help with stamina or magic return; can buff group and debuff enemies which also adds into damage and apply DoTs in combo with HoTs AoE. Interrupting (and CC) is also built in some skills/passives for Templars and Sorcerer which adds more time to do damage for DPS/DD and to regain resources or do heavy attacks.

In short: a healer isn't just a person that equip skills to increase health for other group members, but also someone which have a toolbox to keep group to better be able to focus on doing their own role.

QuebraRegra

seen this too many times... I'm pretty sure it's a standard PUG tactic to get past the horrific grouping tool.

Somewhere back I suggested that a player should have to complete a "qualifier" for each of the roles before they should be allowed to queue for those roles. The qualifier (think tutorial test) standards could increase for vet content.

Doesn't mean you wont still see fools who completed the qualifier still queuing and failing to perform in their roles, but at least it would cut down on the sheer volume, and provide a tutorial for the truly ignorant.

gr4yrang3r87

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

Lyserus wrote: »

fake healer is worse than fake tank

Nah. Fake tank is far worse.

Fake dps is even worse than either..

Magdalina

Slick_007 wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Why such an overreaction? Are you one of those who enjoy queueing as a tank for fast runs?;)

have never done it in any game, will never do it. You dont seem to grasp this simple concept: YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE THIS POWER. you are being a jerk here over it, imagine if you had this power in the game. no doubt you'd be a jerk there too.

You want a popularity contest to decide who can and cant use grouping tool. This is by far the most ***, arrogant, and *** idea i have ever seen and to everyone who agrees with it, please just leave the game forever. Oh dont like that suggestion? What do you think is going to happen when morons start banning people from grouping because they feel like it, and thats what will happen. People will simply leave. You may think thats great, but thats not your call. nor should it ever be. Dont like these people? Ignore them. But you do not have the right to decide what they can and cant do in game. Unless of course, you want them to be able to do it back. You votekicked 5 people this week? no grouping for you for 5 days.

no player should have this power over another player. EVER.

I am being a jerk over it? Point me to where o.O

So far in my experience you're the one being rude and calling people names for fairly reasonable and well argumented suggestions, with your argument basically being "AAAAA IT IS EVIL".

On side note, the amount of times I've kicked non offline people is probably about 5 total - out of hundreds dungeon runs. Oh and fyi - I ONLY pug vet unless it's on a new toon, and I prefer vet dlc if I can help it. Completion rate is far from 100% but it's fun so why not. And I only vote to kick people who are either being jerks or it's obvious we 100% cannot finish the run with them as it is and they refuse to communicate to make it better. My first ever vote to kick was a baby dps who kept activating hm on Kena even though it was obvious we were not capable of doing it with that team. He'd go straight after it right after ressing even after we asked him not to, without saying anything, then proceed to get one shot in first 4 seconds of the fight. My last vote to kick was on a dps in FG II - I was the tank, the group's dps was ~4k and they were unable to kill the shades; it was obvious they were new so I asked them to wait so I swap to partially dps outfit and can try to help out by dropping dots etc, but one of the "dps" kept pulling without giving me time to change gear. Vote to kick failed so I left that group.

But please, keep assuming. I'm 100% sure ZOS will never implement this feature one way or the other so I'm just here for the entertainment anyway

QuebraRegra

Gadrael wrote: »

Instead of bans, kicking etc, i would prefer system where you can mark your group members (f.e. thumb up, thumb down) and it would be later used in finder. F.e. when you thumb down someone, they will be never put with you in the same group by finder. It would be much less toxic than bans.

Considering complains about fake healers - while I agree that there is a lot people who mark themselves as healers without any healing skills, often complaining people are the problem themselves. If tank is on the brink of death two seconds after every pull in non dlc normal dungeon, healer is not the problem...

I like this, and would consider a more robust review system in general (ie. player "x" has 100 "5 star reviews as a healer"

Malamar1229

I queued into a random last night on my level 48 magicka nightblade as a fake healer. FG1.

The tank was a magicka sorc who was running Atronach ultimate, sword and board, and kept spamming Impulse and zero taunts. I know this because with 28k DPS I was consistently pulling aggro on the first few bosses.

the other two DPS were Helen Keller and Ray Charles...had to have been. One had a bow was shooting at god only know what, and the other was a templar using a 2H sword that was heavy attacking the boss. No Aoe on trash, no idea what the hell they were doing.

I asked the sorc to slot Liquid ligtning and Wall of Elements, and I told the DPS they were bad and recommended looking online for rotations/gear selections.

I got called a pimply faced kid. I was then kicked from the group. I was not kicked for being a fake healer. I can promise you I was kicked because they were bads.

zaria

QuebraRegra wrote: »

seen this too many times... I'm pretty sure it's a standard PUG tactic to get past the horrific grouping tool.

Somewhere back I suggested that a player should have to complete a "qualifier" for each of the roles before they should be allowed to queue for those roles. The qualifier (think tutorial test) standards could increase for vet content.

Doesn't mean you wont still see fools who completed the qualifier still queuing and failing to perform in their roles, but at least it would cut down on the sheer volume, and provide a tutorial for the truly ignorant.

This would be pretty nice also for testing tactic for healing and tanking, you are a bit redundant to test stuff if your test could wipe group. But with 3 npc it would be no issues.

I call it undaunted academy. make it an series with encounters like dragonstar arena, a few trash pulls and some generic bosses. with various mechanics, this would make it easier to script the npc to. npc AI could hardly be worse than some players
And yes players will complain that test is not hard enough

Bevik

Malamar1229 wrote: »

I queued into a random last night on my level 48 magicka nightblade as a fake healer. FG1.

The tank was a magicka sorc who was running Atronach ultimate, sword and board, and kept spamming Impulse and zero taunts. I know this because with 28k DPS I was consistently pulling aggro on the first few bosses.

the other two DPS were Helen Keller and Ray Charles...had to have been. One had a bow was shooting at god only know what, and the other was a templar using a 2H sword that was heavy attacking the boss. No Aoe on trash, no idea what the hell they were doing.

I asked the sorc to slot Liquid ligtning and Wall of Elements, and I told the DPS they were bad and recommended looking online for rotations/gear selections.

I got called a pimply faced kid. I was then kicked from the group. I was not kicked for being a fake healer. I can promise you I was kicked because they were bads.

This is a very good example how this "casual" friendly game became a heaven for people who don't take any criticism, advices from a far more experienced player or just from someone with a game knowledge and common sense. This "I will play how I want" is absolutely killing the fun for people who take their time to properly build and improve their chars and rotations or atleast keen to learn the dungeons and mechanics.

I was once kicked and bullied in a group dungeon by 2 players who thought they are the best because they had like 300+ CP. The 4th guy (healer) left because he has seen what those two were doing. Which is basically nothing. I was on my low level toon but had more CP then them and probably more experience than they had altogether and of course I pulled more DPS. It was CoS and the tank was totally fake one (DD obviously but very bad one), his friend was a not so good DD also. Sure we got wiped many times and they didn't know the mechanics nor the basic things like block, interrupt. That's why the healer left in the first place. Can't heal stupid people.

Slick_007

Magdalina wrote: »

[

I am being a jerk over it? Point me to where o.O

how about where you are defending the idea that you should have the power to stop other people playing the game by banning them from using group finder? if thats not arrogance and being a jerk... and then making a suggestion that i abuse group finder roles and thats why im against it. Well, you know where you can go right. and what you can do when you get there.

So far in my experience you're the one being rude and calling people names for fairly reasonable and well argumented suggestions, with your argument basically being "AAAAA IT IS EVIL".

reasonable and well argumented suggestions? Can i have what you are smoking? There is NO argument you can make to have the power to ban other players from using group finder that is either reasonable or well argumented. None whatsoever. More people should be calling you out on it. Its absolutely disgusting that you think you should have this right.

KingExecration

jaye63 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I'm running a high damage tank build and I admit, I always make my low CP friend flag himself as a healer, so we always get fast group finder queues. He is a DD obviously Because let's be honest, most of the dungeons can be done without a healer and I think it's not too much to ask for stam builds to have vigor or momentum and for magicka builds to have a damage shield, in case they need survival.

Also, when things die fast, they don't put up as much of a fight. We are mighty and we need nobody else to keep us alive, we reject the holy trinity.

Ok... let's see you do a vMazzatun without a healer.

Farmed amber plasm jewelry with 3 dds and my tank healer hybrid. Isn't hard. Just block, puncture, and breath of life. Being an argonian makes it way easier than need be.

lientier

jssriot wrote: »

lol

I have 3 healers now because I heal a lot, I enjoy it and I'm good at it. I have healed dungeons, trials, pvp. In dungeons, especially with pug dungeons, healers always pitch in with dps to some extent. Where do you draw the line?

A guildie once said in our guild chat on the topic of healer who also dps that if players aren't dying, then trust your healer. I think that's pretty good baseline to go with.

One the flip side, let's talk about dps:

1) Why don't dps rez people in dungeons? Really in the the 4-player dungeon hierarchy, it's dps who first should stop and rez someone, especially if it's tank or healer that's down.

2) Why don't dps do mechanics? I get that you all think you'r the Burn Gods of the Tamriel but seriously, stop hitting the boss and kill those adds when needed. I love healing CoA1 and watching dps fight against the last boss' shields because they won't stop and kill the atronachs. And don't even get me started on WGT.

3) On the topic of mechanics and adds, why don't dps prioritize better? Know your fights and know what needs to die first. It would help a lot.

4) If you're the kind of dps who whines about healers, here's a tip: don't start a fight without your healer. Most healers are mag builds and don't have a lot of stam to sprint, so if you sprint ahead and start a fight while your healer is still jogging to catch up to you, that's on you.

5) Additionally, if you're the kind of dps who whines about healers, don't run around like headless chickens but rather try to stay grouped together so your healer can use Healing Springs and Combat Prayer and not resort Breath of Life for the whole fight which is resource-expensive and might result in your healer not having enough magicka to heal you when you're lost in your DPS Tunnel Vision and get yourself blasted with a boss' heavy-hitting frontal. (BTW, to people saying "That healer was just casting BoL"--were YOU grouped together so the healer could use AOE heals or nah?)

BTW, I'm dps too, it's my main. I normally consider myself a dps'er and a lot of my dps experience goes into my healing, and if I may be so humble, makes me a pretty fine healer. I also know every dps in guilty of failing at all of the above at one point or another. I've done them all, and when I'm being a dork, still do. At the end of the day, really, everyone in your group is human, some are still learning to game, some are still working out their builds, some are having a bad day, some aren't playing at their best, and that might be you too on any given day, so chill. If you get through the dungeon with relative ease, regardless of what hiccups you encounter along the way, type tyfg in the group chat at the end and be happy.

word