Fake Healers

Jade1986

Beardimus wrote: »

Having played all three rolls over time, it's fake DPS that cause the biggest issue in time to complete. Light attack champions

Light attacks are really annoying. However, unless there is an enrage timer, even if its infuriating to see, it isnt going to break the dungeon. HOWEVER, fake tanks and fake healers can and will cause wipes.

Aurielle

Beardimus wrote: »

Having played all three rolls over time, it's fake DPS that cause the biggest issue in time to complete. Light attack champions

Seriously! THIS IS NOT SKYRIM. I'm usually a little more forgiving, but the amount of garbage DPS I encountered during this most recent event from people with more CP than me was frankly infuriating. You can't expect to clear a dungeon if you spam light bow attacks and snipe! Also, if you have access to caltrops, FOR THE LOVE OF TALOS, slot it and use it! Again, if I tried to be a dedicated healer in the vast majority of the dungeon runs I did recently, I'd STILL be sitting in nICP.

zaria

Jade1986 wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Having played all three rolls over time, it's fake DPS that cause the biggest issue in time to complete. Light attack champions

Light attacks are really annoying. However, unless there is an enrage timer, even if its infuriating to see, it isnt going to break the dungeon. HOWEVER, fake tanks and fake healers can and will cause wipes.

Multiple of the 2 and dpc normal has an dps check, might not be an enrage timer but BC2 require you to kill the adds before next round, FG2 and you have to kill the shade chaining player down, if that was the only one not LA you have an problem.
Some other dungeons has mechanics who are dangerous and will kill players in weak group, Darkshade 2 last boss is the most obvious.
Another issue is that the LA brigade is unlikely to have much dungeon sense, don't killing adds who is needed if dps is low, standing in stupid, don't follow mechanics even if explained.
Mostly they get an free pass, as you can easy do it with 3 players.

Bevik

I was very "lucky" yesterday I had Warden "healers" in my groups. I think they are one of the fake healers especially when badly equipped, badly played, new players trying to do a Warden healer and it's just not working. I've met some OKish warden healers (or tanks) but not many since Morrowind release I've not seen more than 3-4 well played Warden chars. Was really thinking to respec my morphs to get some self healing on my Stam DK because Warden healing is just not doing the heal.

I might make 1 Warden healer on my 2nd account to see what's going on.

ArchMikem

Doing Crypt of Hearts 2 on vet last night was torture. The only healing the Healer did was cast Breath of Life once every couple of minutes. No buffs, no heals over time. Just spammed Sweeps. I didnt say anything cause we were still making progress.

Not to mention the other DD and I were both Stamplars, and we were fighting over who cast Repentance first...

xSkullfox

Bevik wrote: »

I was very "lucky" yesterday I had Warden "healers" in my groups. I think they are one of the fake healers especially when badly equipped, badly played, new players trying to do a Warden healer and it's just not working. I've met some OKish warden healers (or tanks) but not many since Morrowind release I've not seen more than 3-4 well played Warden chars. Was really thinking to respec my morphs to get some self healing on my Stam DK because Warden healing is just not doing the heal.

I might make 1 Warden healer on my 2nd account to see what's going on.

Ive solo healed naa/nhrc/nmol with my warden healer, each no death runs.
Hes using healer,mending all infused;nAS Resto fb and vMA Resto bb.

The biggest diff. is the warden has no "bol" skill like the templer, like o *** hes dying cast bol and hes save.
Currently doing more healer stuff with my warden as with my templar.

I have more problems currently with low dps groups and ppl who think they need to stand in red fields because of yayy.

Silver_Strider

Slick_007 wrote: »

One_ofMany wrote: »

Slick_007 wrote: »

One_ofMany wrote: »

Seems like there has been an epidemic of fake healers this past week.
Some too busy doing DPS to bother with much healing and others not even healing at all. It's driving me crazy!
We really need a way to punish bad behavior like that. Maybe so many negative group votes/kicks in a week and they get locked out of the Activity Finder for a few days.

please leave the game. thats a really nasty attitude you have there towards other players and i hope i never pug with you. i dont condone non healers joining as healers but your wanting to ban other players because you dont like them is a sickening attitude.

Where are you getting this? I never said I wanted them banned. I would want someone who just repeats doing Activity Finder under fake rolls to be locked out of Activity Finder, on that character, for a few days.

you want them temp banned from groups. thats an arrogant disgusting attitude towards players simply because you dont like them.

It's not really a matter of liking them but as a means to show that it's not alright to burden others because you want a faster queue with little to no intention of fulfilling their chosen role.

That fact you're defending these players is far more troublesome to me than the temporary ban OP is suggesting.

Juju_beans

It's threads like this that make me think I'll never bring my healer into a dungeon using group finder.
I like healing and ESO makes it easier than some other games.
I haven't grouped as a healer but have healed others at dolmens, delves and in public dungeons on my Templar cause that's just what a healer does.

phileunderx2

Healing pugs you almost have to be able to do some decent dps as most pug damage people are lacking. Fake tanks can usually get away with it in the lower tier dungeons but once you get to the dlcs It doesn't work so well.

boombazookajd

I've been, in general, saying that myself. Honestly, I think it's down to the holiday event and folks doing anything they can to run as much content as they can.

Morvane

Lyserus wrote: »

fake healer is worse than fake tank

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

Lyserus wrote: »

fake healer is worse than fake tank

Nah. Fake tank is far worse.

0 DPS lead this board

Aurielle

Bevik wrote: »

I was very "lucky" yesterday I had Warden "healers" in my groups. I think they are one of the fake healers especially when badly equipped, badly played, new players trying to do a Warden healer and it's just not working. I've met some OKish warden healers (or tanks) but not many since Morrowind release I've not seen more than 3-4 well played Warden chars. Was really thinking to respec my morphs to get some self healing on my Stam DK because Warden healing is just not doing the heal.

I might make 1 Warden healer on my 2nd account to see what's going on.

I used to main a Templar healer on my old PC account, and now have a Warden healer alt on my PS4 account. Warden healing is more proactive than reactive. You need to anticipate damage spikes and ensure you have enough HoTs down to keep everyone up, as you're lacking in a skill similar to BoL for when the midden hits the windmill. It's not that Warden healing is worse than Templar healing, it's just that Templar healing is much easier (therefore giving the impression of it being significantly better, esp. in PuG situations, where a lot of new healers are more reactive than proactive). When played well, a Warden healer is on par with a well-played Templar. I'm still working on getting SPC and haven't felt comfortable enough yet to venture into vet DLC dungeons and trials with Worm/Kagrenac, but I'm getting there. Warden healing is a fun challenge for anyone who's ever played a Templar healer.

Jade1986

Morvane wrote: »

Lyserus wrote: »

fake healer is worse than fake tank

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

Lyserus wrote: »

fake healer is worse than fake tank

Nah. Fake tank is far worse.

0 DPS lead this board

0 DPS youd have to be standing still. ....

Mureel

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Never understand why all the ire is aimed towards other players. Maybe if ZoS fixed their pathetic activity finder people wouldn't need to lie. I mean, queue as a healer or tank, you find a group in a short space of time, but a dps? Good luck. I've waited hours upon hours and eventually just gave up more times that I've actually found a group.

I can fully understand why people pull a fast one. I can only assume that it's not because they want to, it's because they're forced to if they want any hope in hell of finding a group that day. Dungeon finder is pathetic and it's that that's the real issue and always has been.

ok then - what's the fix for more dps than healers or tanks? I fail to see how 'fixing the stupid finder' would change anything.

People need to just stop whining. If you clear the dungeon who gives a damn.

exeeter702

Slick_007 wrote: »

One_ofMany wrote: »

Slick_007 wrote: »

One_ofMany wrote: »

Seems like there has been an epidemic of fake healers this past week.
Some too busy doing DPS to bother with much healing and others not even healing at all. It's driving me crazy!
We really need a way to punish bad behavior like that. Maybe so many negative group votes/kicks in a week and they get locked out of the Activity Finder for a few days.

please leave the game. thats a really nasty attitude you have there towards other players and i hope i never pug with you. i dont condone non healers joining as healers but your wanting to ban other players because you dont like them is a sickening attitude.

Where are you getting this? I never said I wanted them banned. I would want someone who just repeats doing Activity Finder under fake rolls to be locked out of Activity Finder, on that character, for a few days.

you want them temp banned from groups. thats an arrogant disgusting attitude towards players simply because you dont like them.

Oh please man, get off your high horse. If players intentionally and knowingly sabotage a GF group and create a negative experience and wasting time for players that are actually trying because they want to shortcut a queue time, then they deserve to be locked out of the tool.

That being said, a system as such would be hard to enforce without being abused unless a vote "reason" was added and a player ammased a large amount of "player not fulfilling selected role" votes.

exeeter702

Aurielle wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Having played all three rolls over time, it's fake DPS that cause the biggest issue in time to complete. Light attack champions

Seriously! THIS IS NOT SKYRIM. I'm usually a little more forgiving, but the amount of garbage DPS I encountered during this most recent event from people with more CP than me was frankly infuriating. You can't expect to clear a dungeon if you spam light bow attacks and snipe! Also, if you have access to caltrops, FOR THE LOVE OF TALOS, slot it and use it! Again, if I tried to be a dedicated healer in the vast majority of the dungeon runs I did recently, I'd STILL be sitting in nICP.

For real man, just yesterday i got into a fungal 2 of all places, immediately noticed a portal which is a bad sign imo. They werent evem at the first boss. I ask them why the other tank left, no one said a word. I proceed to pull first boss. I *** you not man, the healer was spamming frost heavies and running all over the place while jumping trying to drop aggro , one dps was SnB spamming low slash and the other dps, and this for whatever reason triggered me more than anything else, was constantly back stepping in order to use crit rush over and over again. You cant make this *** up lol..

No amount of polite friendly explanations would help these players. I think im done with GF until zos has the decency to implement systems IN GAME to help educate new players in what is expected of them in a selected role among other lessons. These players get away with this crap because no where else in their playing experience is the game slapping their wrist and making them consider ways to improve. Ill take a fake healer or tank anyday over that crap.

jssriot

lol

I have 3 healers now because I heal a lot, I enjoy it and I'm good at it. I have healed dungeons, trials, pvp. In dungeons, especially with pug dungeons, healers always pitch in with dps to some extent. Where do you draw the line?

A guildie once said in our guild chat on the topic of healer who also dps that if players aren't dying, then trust your healer. I think that's pretty good baseline to go with.

One the flip side, let's talk about dps:

1) Why don't dps rez people in dungeons? Really in the the 4-player dungeon hierarchy, it's dps who first should stop and rez someone, especially if it's tank or healer that's down.

2) Why don't dps do mechanics? I get that you all think you'r the Burn Gods of the Tamriel but seriously, stop hitting the boss and kill those adds when needed. I love healing CoA1 and watching dps fight against the last boss' shields because they won't stop and kill the atronachs. And don't even get me started on WGT.

3) On the topic of mechanics and adds, why don't dps prioritize better? Know your fights and know what needs to die first. It would help a lot.

4) If you're the kind of dps who whines about healers, here's a tip: don't start a fight without your healer. Most healers are mag builds and don't have a lot of stam to sprint, so if you sprint ahead and start a fight while your healer is still jogging to catch up to you, that's on you.

5) Additionally, if you're the kind of dps who whines about healers, don't run around like headless chickens but rather try to stay grouped together so your healer can use Healing Springs and Combat Prayer and not resort Breath of Life for the whole fight which is resource-expensive and might result in your healer not having enough magicka to heal you when you're lost in your DPS Tunnel Vision and get yourself blasted with a boss' heavy-hitting frontal. (BTW, to people saying "That healer was just casting BoL"--were YOU grouped together so the healer could use AOE heals or nah?)

BTW, I'm dps too, it's my main. I normally consider myself a dps'er and a lot of my dps experience goes into my healing, and if I may be so humble, makes me a pretty fine healer. I also know every dps in guilty of failing at all of the above at one point or another. I've done them all, and when I'm being a dork, still do. At the end of the day, really, everyone in your group is human, some are still learning to game, some are still working out their builds, some are having a bad day, some aren't playing at their best, and that might be you too on any given day, so chill. If you get through the dungeon with relative ease, regardless of what hiccups you encounter along the way, type tyfg in the group chat at the end and be happy.

exeeter702

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Never understand why all the ire is aimed towards other players. Maybe if ZoS fixed their pathetic activity finder people wouldn't need to lie. I mean, queue as a healer or tank, you find a group in a short space of time, but a dps? Good luck. I've waited hours upon hours and eventually just gave up more times that I've actually found a group.

I can fully understand why people pull a fast one. I can only assume that it's not because they want to, it's because they're forced to if they want any hope in hell of finding a group that day. Dungeon finder is pathetic and it's that that's the real issue and always has been.

Its not a broken tool. That is simply a byproduct of dps being a more popular role at lower levels. Most new players generally find dealing damage more attractive than tanking or healing, where in their mind they believe it be less exciting if you cant blow up overland mobs. Its like 10 to 1 dps over either tanks or healers and thus massive queue times.

Its zos's fault partially, not becuase of poor coding for the GF tool, but because the game offers little in the way of incentive for new players to queue up as anything but damage dealer..

Juju_beans

exeeter702 wrote: »

For real man, just yesterday i got into a fungal 2 of all places, immediately noticed a portal which is a bad sign imo. They werent evem at the first boss. I ask them why the other tank left, no one said a word. I proceed to pull first boss. I *** you not man, the healer was spamming frost heavies and running all over the place while jumping trying to drop aggro , one dps was SnB spamming low slash and the other dps, and this for whatever reason triggered me more than anything else, was constantly back stepping in order to use crit rush over and over again. You cant make this *** up lol..

No amount of polite friendly explanations would help these players. I think im done with GF until zos has the decency to implement systems IN GAME to help educate new players in what is expected of them in a selected role among other lessons. These players get away with this crap because no where else in their playing experience is the game slapping their wrist and making them consider ways to improve. Ill take a fake healer or tank anyday over that crap.

Between the halloween event and this event many people were able to power level their toons.

I got 5 toons to level 40 and 1 to level 45 during the witches event.
This current event got my level 45 to cp160 with the enlightenment and double xp.
This is my first cp 160 toon and am still learning.

BUT...i'm missing points in skills/abilities and guild passives. I know that and am questing now for points and hunting down sky shards.
Also going to start getting my real gear as well and trying out rotations that work for me. Also going to get a combat add-on so I can see my dps stats and fine tune them.

I won't go near a dungeon as a dps until I feel more comfortable that I can cut it.

There are others that really don't care about 'the team'. They are in it for themselves to level or gear themselves up.

Invoca

Jade1986 wrote: »

Morvane wrote: »

Lyserus wrote: »

fake healer is worse than fake tank

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

Lyserus wrote: »

fake healer is worse than fake tank

Nah. Fake tank is far worse.

0 DPS lead this board

0 DPS youd have to be standing still. ....

I've seen that while tanking.


Far as the whole fake tank/healer thing. I'd prefer a system that used some form of check (taunt slotted, group heals slotted etc) as that would exclude only those that can't/likely won't fulfill their role or did punish but in a way that didn't leave it all up to players. If a thing can be abused it surely will, and that sounds like something that could be left open to abuse.

ookami007

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

Lyserus wrote: »

fake healer is worse than fake tank

Nah. Fake tank is far worse.

Yes, a fake tank is FAR worse.

jaye63

I'e been getting fake tanks.... so sick of people being impatient.

Nerouyn

Lyserus wrote: »

fake healer is worse than fake tank

But are they worse than fake complainers of fakers?

SydneyGrey

exeeter702 wrote: »

For real man, just yesterday i got into a fungal 2 of all places, immediately noticed a portal which is a bad sign imo. They werent evem at the first boss. I ask them why the other tank left, no one said a word. I proceed to pull first boss. I *** you not man, the healer was spamming frost heavies and running all over the place while jumping trying to drop aggro , one dps was SnB spamming low slash and the other dps, and this for whatever reason triggered me more than anything else, was constantly back stepping in order to use crit rush over and over again. You cant make this *** up lol..

LOL. Yeah, one player like that is tolerable, but if all three of your teammates are like that, you just want to stab yourself in the eye with a fork.

D0PAMINE

I queue as a DPS and ALWAYS get stuck healing. Its not fair to me or the rest of the group. I can solo normals so thats why I queue as a DPS. I have to do extra work because there are players in the group who may need heals? Low level players are not the problem. Fake players are.

FrancisCrawford

The vast majority of my characters are magicka.

I always queue them for heals, except when my wife and I queue together and she's healing. So I almost always get into groups quickly.

In almost all cases, I heal with one resto bar and one lightning bar.

Healing Ward + Rapid Regeneration/Mutagen + any other heal suffices for any non-DLC dungeon in normal mode. For something harder you might want to have a bit more. In particular, I tend to slot the resto ultimate (or trees on my warden).

I healed normal WGT on a sorcerer.

I'm leveling a DK via random normal dungeons now.

I usually do at least 20-25% of group DPS when I heal. I commonly do 40-50%.

This SHOULDN'T all be as difficult as people make it.

AcadianPaladin

I run a CP690 templar healer - a real one. Part of her normal support is keeping the area around the boss under shards and blockade. She also double slots the Mages Guild ultimate (for its passives) and it takes but a millisecond a couple times during a boss fight to get that out. For normal dungeons, that 'incidental dps' is actually respectable - but it results from trying to assist others with resources and trying to keep foes 'off balance' for a good part of the fight.

I guess my point is that in providing the full spectrum of support, a good healer is likely contributing decent 'incidental' dps (by normal dungeon / Pug standards).

zaria

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

The vast majority of my characters are magicka.

I always queue them for heals, except when my wife and I queue together and she's healing. So I almost always get into groups quickly.

In almost all cases, I heal with one resto bar and one lightning bar.

Healing Ward + Rapid Regeneration/Mutagen + any other heal suffices for any non-DLC dungeon in normal mode. For something harder you might want to have a bit more. In particular, I tend to slot the resto ultimate (or trees on my warden).

I healed normal WGT on a sorcerer.

I'm leveling a DK via random normal dungeons now.

I usually do at least 20-25% of group DPS when I heal. I commonly do 40-50%.

This SHOULDN'T all be as difficult as people make it.

I tend to run magic builds as healers except trial run there more DD is needed.
Sorcerer make very strong dungeon healers, flappy bird for strong non directional burst heal. You have good sustain and can do DD level dps while healing. Downside is that you don't bring group buffs so sorc healers are not used in vet trials.
Downside of warden healer is low dps

FrancisCrawford

zaria wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

The vast majority of my characters are magicka.

I always queue them for heals, except when my wife and I queue together and she's healing. So I almost always get into groups quickly.

In almost all cases, I heal with one resto bar and one lightning bar.

Healing Ward + Rapid Regeneration/Mutagen + any other heal suffices for any non-DLC dungeon in normal mode. For something harder you might want to have a bit more. In particular, I tend to slot the resto ultimate (or trees on my warden).

I healed normal WGT on a sorcerer.

I'm leveling a DK via random normal dungeons now.

I usually do at least 20-25% of group DPS when I heal. I commonly do 40-50%.

This SHOULDN'T all be as difficult as people make it.

I tend to run magic builds as healers except trial run there more DD is needed.
Sorcerer make very strong dungeon healers, flappy bird for strong non directional burst heal. You have good sustain and can do DD level dps while healing. Downside is that you don't bring group buffs so sorc healers are not used in vet trials.
Downside of warden healer is low dps

A large fraction of my dungeon experience is duo. I bring a sorcerer on a dual pet build and twilight-heal as needed. (Sometimes my partner brings strong heals herself, but often she doesn't.) I've done 18 dungeons (mostly in normal mode) that way.

Merlin13KAGL

Needs to be a gauntlet for each role ~ a certification of sorts.

On the normals, it not hard to unlock the necessary skills and gear to do any role, but if you queue up for it, be able to do that role.

*** the queue because there are far more DPS than heals and tanks is not an issue with the finder. It's basic math.

If you want to queue quickly, maybe be willing to do something other than kill stuff? Again, < L45, it's not that hard to do half -well, and you may actually gain an appreciation for what good tanks/heals/dps actually do.