Do you feel Wardens are over-performing in PvP content?

Valykc

Title.

I wanted to create this poll to see how the community feels about Wardens in their current state. I’m also referring to those played by average players, not highly skilled players. I’m curious because I am currently leveling a Warden (Though I am roughly CP600, 2K hours in-game) and I feel that they are pretty strong, stamina wardens in particular. But is it Wardens that are strong or it is the gear setups that are paired with them that make them strong? I’m afraid to invest a lot of time into this character because I’m afraid the nerf-hammer will be dropping on them fairly soon, especially when players such as Gilliam say there are issues with their balance. So what do you all think of Wardens?

Edit: Keep in mind, I’m not calling for a nerf just for community feedback.

Mojomonkeyman

Valykc wrote: »

Title.

I wanted to create this poll to see how the community feels about Wardens in their current state. I’m also referring to those played by average players, not highly skilled players. I’m curious because I am currently leveling a Warden (Though I am roughly CP600, 2K hours in-game) and I feel that they are pretty strong, stamina wardens in particular. I’m afraid to invest a lot of time into this character because I’m afraid the nerf-hammer will be dropping on them fairly soon, especially when players such as Gilliam say there are issues with their balance. So what do you all think of Wardens?

Edit: Keep in mind, I’m not calling for a nerf just for community feedback.

I never understood that attitude. If you have fun with the class, why bothering with anything else (especially forum opinions)?

kylewwefan

Maybe I’m doing something horribly wrong with mine, but it does not feel op at all. Not even a little bit. Nerf Sorcs.

Valykc

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Valykc wrote: »

Title.

I wanted to create this poll to see how the community feels about Wardens in their current state. I’m also referring to those played by average players, not highly skilled players. I’m curious because I am currently leveling a Warden (Though I am roughly CP600, 2K hours in-game) and I feel that they are pretty strong, stamina wardens in particular. I’m afraid to invest a lot of time into this character because I’m afraid the nerf-hammer will be dropping on them fairly soon, especially when players such as Gilliam say there are issues with their balance. So what do you all think of Wardens?

Edit: Keep in mind, I’m not calling for a nerf just for community feedback.

I never understood that attitude. If you have fun with the class, why bothering with anything else (especially forum opinions)?

The class is fun but if it gets nerfed and nerfed hard, it might not be fun to play anymore. I’m not saying that people’s opinion will make me stop playing the class, I’m asking from their experiences how do they feel about them.

Tryxus

StamDen does, MagDen doesn't

I haven't really faced many StamDens in duels, nor have I ever played one. But I'm well aware of what they're capable of: powerful burst, great mitigation, mobility and sustain. Basically, a StamDen has it all.

MagDen on the other hand is NOT overperforming. They may have annoying mechanics to fight against (AoE Defile & Cliff Racers for instance) but they are not too strong. Compared to the other Magicka classes, I'd say both MagBlade and MagPlar are higher on the tier list than MagDen

Thogard

Stamden has access to too many defensive counters while also have access to a very to an offense that very few builds can counter

scipionumatia

warden is lacking a class cc. that matters a lot.
I don't think they are over performing, I think certain classes are underperforming. if anything id like to see Templar and dk brought up to warden/nightblade/sorc level

AllPlayAndNoWork

Nerf Sorcs !

MurderMostFoul

I hate birds

Waffennacht

Think of it this way

They have 0 way to purge (stamden).

Sets like Riposte, Shadowrend, etc that apply debuffs defensively will hamper that burst

Sets like Durok's Bane will destroy they're healing, Guile as well

Bleed will absolutely take it's toll

While the burst is a hard counter to block/dodge roll, shields are effective. With delayed burst, healing ward or other strong heals are very capable of resetting the fight

I think magicka builds have the strongest counters to wardens. Shimmering shield isn't like wings in that you should just cast light attacks to break, but because each has a limited damage amount, it's something you should try and power through.

I personally know stamden is bamf, but definitely coubter-able.

I haven't died to a stamden since I stopped playing my archer

NyassaV

Many of their skills have little to no counter play. Even if on paper it looks balance, in practice it is not

Alpheu5

scipionumatia wrote: »

warden is lacking a class cc. that matters a lot.

Beetles?

casparian

Alpheu5 wrote: »

scipionumatia wrote: »

warden is lacking a class cc. that matters a lot.

Beetles?

Beetles only CCs one person out of a group, only CCs for magwardens, and is one of the most easily avoidable CCs in the game. It's hardly reliable. Given the relative completeness of the rest of their toolkit, this is fair.

arkansas_ESO

Remove Shimmering Shield and they'd be basically balanced at that point.

Moglijuana

If they adjusted stamden healing down just a bit they'll be perfect. They already have stamina to mitigate damage (dodge roll, block, movement speed etc.) and access to more heals than other stam classes. That is too much imo.

Magden is fine. They're strong, but not OP.

Takes-No-Prisoner

Waffennacht wrote: »

Think of it this way

They have 0 way to purge (stamden).

Sets like Riposte, Shadowrend, etc that apply debuffs defensively will hamper that burst

Sets like Durok's Bane will destroy they're healing, Guile as well

Bleed will absolutely take it's toll

Oh yeah these are big counters to StamDen, things the Magden is capable of getting rid of. Kind of ironic isn't it?

They have great mobility, without an escape option like Streak and cloak, they have to sit there and deal with the debuffs like DKs and Sorcs do.

Shimmiering could be the thing over performing, however, it would be wise to adjust it so it still sees use. Other wise, ranged attacks with poisons and other effects would destroy a Stamwarden before he has a chance to gap close and fight back. If Shimmering got the nerf bat, it would need to be it's cost. Either, make it higher keep the effect of the shield or, remove magic return on per destoryed shield or give magic back on the last shield broken(the 3rd shield, so recasting or having the first 2 shields destroyed yields no return on magic).

Ragnaroek93

I don't rate Warden as too strong. Some skills are bad designed (hardcounters for certain builds like shimmering shield and undodgeable bird spam) and should get a rework, not a nerf. The weakness from Warden is that they have too many buffs which doesn't last long and not enough skill slots for everything imo.

Vaoh

CP is the problem. It imbalances everything.

I could imagine certain nerfs happening to Warden (making Scorch dodgeable and/or blockable). However, they need a *lot* of buffs first to their toolkit for PvE reasons before they should be nerfed for PvP imo.

Lexxypwns

Been main’ing a stam warden for months, I’ve never felt more relatively powerful on any class since 1.6 sorc/1.5mDK

Brutusmax1mus

The stacked burst aoe is rediculous when combined with 2h. My friend and were messing around in a tower. Between 2h heavy attack, shalks, db, reverse slice its just nuts. It's the shalks man.... The shalks..

I wouldn't say op, but definitely best stamina small scale v zerg class imo.

Takes-No-Prisoner

Vaoh wrote: »

CP is the problem. It imbalances everything.

I could imagine certain nerfs happening to Warden (making Scorch dodgeable and/or blockable). However, they need a *lot* of buffs first to their toolkit for PvE reasons before they should be nerfed for PvP imo.

I would prefer to see this happen honestly. Warden is fine in PvP, but they need help in PvE a lot more.

TimeDazzler

Subterrain Assault 20x7 meter range yet the animation feels like its 20x3-4 meters. Sometimes I get hit by that thing when im clearly out of the beetle animation.

Lotus Flower way out performs siphoning strikes and grants major savagery/prophecy.

Those are my only 2 complaints before anyone says subterrain assault is easy to avoid and has an obvious animation I know. Just the animation and actual hitbox don't match.

Takes-No-Prisoner

Cries wrote: »

Subterrain Assault 20x7 meter range

Oh!

I have a question about this actually, the Assault passive skill Reach, doesn't it ALSO effect this skill? If that is the case, then that could be the reason why Cries.

Rank II	

Increases range of long-range abilities by 5 meters while near a Keep.
Any ability with a range greater than 15 meters is affected.

Lexxypwns

Cries wrote: »

Subterrain Assault 20x7 meter range yet the animation feels like its 20x3-4 meters. Sometimes I get hit by that thing when im clearly out of the beetle animation.

Lotus Flower way out performs siphoning strikes and grants major savagery/prophecy.

Those are my only 2 complaints before anyone says subterrain assault is easy to avoid and has an obvious animation I know. Just the animation and actual hitbox don't match.

Lotus doesn’t outperform leeching/siphoning

Waffennacht

I think the best counter to a stamden is a magden 0-0

Rainraven

Magdens are fine.

Thogard

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Cries wrote: »

Subterrain Assault 20x7 meter range yet the animation feels like its 20x3-4 meters. Sometimes I get hit by that thing when im clearly out of the beetle animation.

Lotus Flower way out performs siphoning strikes and grants major savagery/prophecy.

Those are my only 2 complaints before anyone says subterrain assault is easy to avoid and has an obvious animation I know. Just the animation and actual hitbox don't match.

Lotus doesn’t outperform leeching/siphoning

It can if it’s your only green balance heal and you use it to get major mending.

Jjitsuboy98

I'm against nerfs. I love my Stam Warden. After a week or so of figuring him out he's my all time favorite class (have all maxed except templar).

VaranisArano

I'm pretty sure that the over-performing of any class is dependent on the player, not the class.

I'm learning my stam warden at the moment and I've got a long way to go.

zParallaxz

Hollery wrote: »

Many of their skills have little to no counter play. Even if on paper it looks balance, in practice it is not

What skills have no counter play it that can’t be related to another class?

VaranisArano

zParallaxz wrote: »

Hollery wrote: »

Many of their skills have little to no counter play. Even if on paper it looks balance, in practice it is not

What skills have no counter play it that can’t be related to another class?

I assume that we are speaking of cliff racers. Fly, my pretties! Fly!