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Do you feel Wardens are over-performing in PvP content?
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Casul✭✭✭✭✭
✭Wardens (in particular stamina) are not overpowered. I just feel they are good at what they do. Alot of people like to point the finger at them and claim "so much burst, so much sustain, so much mitigation". Well I will give my take on these 3 claims.
1. Damage. I feel like Stamward have few skills in their arsenal, but the ones they do have are strong. But can be easily counter with adaption. Dive can be counter with healing, block, and shields. Sub assault is countered by immobilization effects and shields. And yes I am aware to get a extremely strong shield stack you would be spending upwards of 9k magicka. But that leads into my 3rd point. Lastly the topic of major defile has been brought up. But people still fail to realize that this cost magicka just as much as expansive frost cloak or shimmering. Thus keeping defile up indefinitely is hard via corrupted field. I myself prefer reverberating bash as a both a stun and defile.
2. Sustain. I feel like sustain with warden is overrated. Outside of netch (218 regen), green passive (250 mag or stam), and shimmering (400 cost depending on absorb) there is little that makes a significant difference imo. Most of it comes through natural regen, heavy attacks, and heavy armor constitution, all of which are available to all classes. I also feel like
3. Mitigation. Wardens play alot like magsorcs depending on the target. Typically following a lock down and defend technique that follows into a counter during the cooldown on resources. For ranged magic builds a more offensive approach can be taken with shimmering. But. Shimmering is not the problem, the problem is aggression. The biggest counter to shimmering is reactive play. Shimmering only restores if you attack. So if you wait it out then the cost is much higher, and more difficult for a warden (especially stam) to maintain. During this reactive time good skills would be ground based immobilization effects and CC skills to try and waste stamina from the warden. If you can hold out with shields, healing, etc for a bit then the warden will have no chance of casting shimmering, thus leading to your counter phase. During which any class can use there normal arsenal to take down the warden.
During your attack phase a warden will be much more pressure once out of magicka, this leads to tree spam and heal spam (all of which use up the damage pool from the warden) if you have to do this rotation 2 or 3 times eventually you will succeed.
Lastly, this does not take into account the many different builds. For example my velidreth, innate axion, morag tong setup for burst doesn't need any of the defense stuff. Just CC and burst (but he does have 12k sub assault and 11k dawnbreaker so be careful lol)
Just my 2 cent, and again also just my opinion from my 42~ in game days of experience with stamina warden.
That right there. Warden's Subterranean Assault hits harder than a lot of ultimates. And no one thinks that's OP? Or the fact that they can spam Major Defile? Perhaps I'm just in the minority that happens to be venerable to most of the warden's attacks.
As an mDK- I have low mobility and I'm mostly melee range. As you know- mDKs get a lot of their heals from melee attacks. So, we're just kind of F#%&@ed again a warden that plops Major Defile and pops the Subterranean Assault/Wrecking Blow/Dawnbreaker/Executioner combo. Then again- I question why I keep playing the consistently gimped class in this game. I must be a masochist.
If your in melee range then anchor them down and force them to waste stamina. It's not rocket science. Also I've and ready stated that wardens cannot keep corrupted field up indefinitely while also spamming shimmering and ice fortress. Not possible.
Good yes. But not the best. Dk are better tanks, NB are better gankers, sorcs have better mobility and field control, Templars are better heals.Wardens (in particular stamina) are not overpowered...
...Lastly, this does not take into account the many different builds. For example my velidreth, innate axion, morag tong setup for burst doesn't need any of the defense stuff. Just CC and burst (but he does have 12k sub assault and 11k dawnbreaker so be careful lol)
I'm honestly not sure if this is a troll post. How you can say "Stamdens are not overpowered" and then with a straight face follow that up with "my stamden can do an instant 23,000 AOE damage which also CCs." You can't be serious. What other class can even come close to touching that kind of instant burst? And again, we aren't talking single target here, that's AOE burst which also CCs every target and allows for a follow up executioner/steel tornado. Plus it can be fired off frequently due to shimmering shield. And this burst is just icing on the cake to all the great mobility/sustain/survivability the stamden has.
While running a whopping 11k defense, full divines, and 900 stam regen. It's a burst setup, but this obviously went over your head. Just as my perma block setup can tank 15 people while doing a whopping 400 damage per hit.
Seems to be alot of people who are in denial about there own setups and seek to point the finger.PvP needs more love.5 -
zParallaxz✭✭✭✭✭Wardens (in particular stamina) are not overpowered. I just feel they are good at what they do. Alot of people like to point the finger at them and claim "so much burst, so much sustain, so much mitigation". Well I will give my take on these 3 claims.
1. Damage. I feel like Stamward have few skills in their arsenal, but the ones they do have are strong. But can be easily counter with adaption. Dive can be counter with healing, block, and shields. Sub assault is countered by immobilization effects and shields. And yes I am aware to get a extremely strong shield stack you would be spending upwards of 9k magicka. But that leads into my 3rd point. Lastly the topic of major defile has been brought up. But people still fail to realize that this cost magicka just as much as expansive frost cloak or shimmering. Thus keeping defile up indefinitely is hard via corrupted field. I myself prefer reverberating bash as a both a stun and defile.
2. Sustain. I feel like sustain with warden is overrated. Outside of netch (218 regen), green passive (250 mag or stam), and shimmering (400 cost depending on absorb) there is little that makes a significant difference imo. Most of it comes through natural regen, heavy attacks, and heavy armor constitution, all of which are available to all classes. I also feel like
3. Mitigation. Wardens play alot like magsorcs depending on the target. Typically following a lock down and defend technique that follows into a counter during the cooldown on resources. For ranged magic builds a more offensive approach can be taken with shimmering. But. Shimmering is not the problem, the problem is aggression. The biggest counter to shimmering is reactive play. Shimmering only restores if you attack. So if you wait it out then the cost is much higher, and more difficult for a warden (especially stam) to maintain. During this reactive time good skills would be ground based immobilization effects and CC skills to try and waste stamina from the warden. If you can hold out with shields, healing, etc for a bit then the warden will have no chance of casting shimmering, thus leading to your counter phase. During which any class can use there normal arsenal to take down the warden.
During your attack phase a warden will be much more pressure once out of magicka, this leads to tree spam and heal spam (all of which use up the damage pool from the warden) if you have to do this rotation 2 or 3 times eventually you will succeed.
Lastly, this does not take into account the many different builds. For example my velidreth, innate axion, morag tong setup for burst doesn't need any of the defense stuff. Just CC and burst (but he does have 12k sub assault and 11k dawnbreaker so be careful lol)
Just my 2 cent, and again also just my opinion from my 42~ in game days of experience with stamina warden.
That right there. Warden's Subterranean Assault hits harder than a lot of ultimates. And no one thinks that's OP? Or the fact that they can spam Major Defile? Perhaps I'm just in the minority that happens to be venerable to most of the warden's attacks.
As an mDK- I have low mobility and I'm mostly melee range. As you know- mDKs get a lot of their heals from melee attacks. So, we're just kind of F#%&@ed again a warden that plops Major Defile and pops the Subterranean Assault/Wrecking Blow/Dawnbreaker/Executioner combo. Then again- I question why I keep playing the consistently gimped class in this game. I must be a masochist.
If your in melee range then anchor them down and force them to waste stamina. It's not rocket science. Also I've and ready stated that wardens cannot keep corrupted field up indefinitely while also spamming shimmering and ice fortress. Not possible.
Good yes. But not the best. Dk are better tanks, NB are better gankers, sorcs have better mobility and field control, Templars are better heals.Wardens (in particular stamina) are not overpowered...
...Lastly, this does not take into account the many different builds. For example my velidreth, innate axion, morag tong setup for burst doesn't need any of the defense stuff. Just CC and burst (but he does have 12k sub assault and 11k dawnbreaker so be careful lol)
I'm honestly not sure if this is a troll post. How you can say "Stamdens are not overpowered" and then with a straight face follow that up with "my stamden can do an instant 23,000 AOE damage which also CCs." You can't be serious. What other class can even come close to touching that kind of instant burst? And again, we aren't talking single target here, that's AOE burst which also CCs every target and allows for a follow up executioner/steel tornado. Plus it can be fired off frequently due to shimmering shield. And this burst is just icing on the cake to all the great mobility/sustain/survivability the stamden has.
While running a whopping 11k defense, full divines, and 900 stam regen. It's a burst setup, but this obviously went over your head. Just as my perma block setup can tank 15 people while doing a whopping 400 damage per hit.
Seems to be alot of people who are in denial about there own setups and seek to point the finger.
Speaking the truth bro2 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭zParallaxz wrote: »Wardens (in particular stamina) are not overpowered. I just feel they are good at what they do. Alot of people like to point the finger at them and claim "so much burst, so much sustain, so much mitigation". Well I will give my take on these 3 claims.
1. Damage. I feel like Stamward have few skills in their arsenal, but the ones they do have are strong. But can be easily counter with adaption. Dive can be counter with healing, block, and shields. Sub assault is countered by immobilization effects and shields. And yes I am aware to get a extremely strong shield stack you would be spending upwards of 9k magicka. But that leads into my 3rd point. Lastly the topic of major defile has been brought up. But people still fail to realize that this cost magicka just as much as expansive frost cloak or shimmering. Thus keeping defile up indefinitely is hard via corrupted field. I myself prefer reverberating bash as a both a stun and defile.
2. Sustain. I feel like sustain with warden is overrated. Outside of netch (218 regen), green passive (250 mag or stam), and shimmering (400 cost depending on absorb) there is little that makes a significant difference imo. Most of it comes through natural regen, heavy attacks, and heavy armor constitution, all of which are available to all classes. I also feel like
3. Mitigation. Wardens play alot like magsorcs depending on the target. Typically following a lock down and defend technique that follows into a counter during the cooldown on resources. For ranged magic builds a more offensive approach can be taken with shimmering. But. Shimmering is not the problem, the problem is aggression. The biggest counter to shimmering is reactive play. Shimmering only restores if you attack. So if you wait it out then the cost is much higher, and more difficult for a warden (especially stam) to maintain. During this reactive time good skills would be ground based immobilization effects and CC skills to try and waste stamina from the warden. If you can hold out with shields, healing, etc for a bit then the warden will have no chance of casting shimmering, thus leading to your counter phase. During which any class can use there normal arsenal to take down the warden.
During your attack phase a warden will be much more pressure once out of magicka, this leads to tree spam and heal spam (all of which use up the damage pool from the warden) if you have to do this rotation 2 or 3 times eventually you will succeed.
Lastly, this does not take into account the many different builds. For example my velidreth, innate axion, morag tong setup for burst doesn't need any of the defense stuff. Just CC and burst (but he does have 12k sub assault and 11k dawnbreaker so be careful lol)
Just my 2 cent, and again also just my opinion from my 42~ in game days of experience with stamina warden.
That right there. Warden's Subterranean Assault hits harder than a lot of ultimates. And no one thinks that's OP? Or the fact that they can spam Major Defile? Perhaps I'm just in the minority that happens to be venerable to most of the warden's attacks.
As an mDK- I have low mobility and I'm mostly melee range. As you know- mDKs get a lot of their heals from melee attacks. So, we're just kind of F#%&@ed again a warden that plops Major Defile and pops the Subterranean Assault/Wrecking Blow/Dawnbreaker/Executioner combo. Then again- I question why I keep playing the consistently gimped class in this game. I must be a masochist.
If your in melee range then anchor them down and force them to waste stamina. It's not rocket science. Also I've and ready stated that wardens cannot keep corrupted field up indefinitely while also spamming shimmering and ice fortress. Not possible.
Good yes. But not the best. Dk are better tanks, NB are better gankers, sorcs have better mobility and field control, Templars are better heals.Wardens (in particular stamina) are not overpowered...
...Lastly, this does not take into account the many different builds. For example my velidreth, innate axion, morag tong setup for burst doesn't need any of the defense stuff. Just CC and burst (but he does have 12k sub assault and 11k dawnbreaker so be careful lol)
I'm honestly not sure if this is a troll post. How you can say "Stamdens are not overpowered" and then with a straight face follow that up with "my stamden can do an instant 23,000 AOE damage which also CCs." You can't be serious. What other class can even come close to touching that kind of instant burst? And again, we aren't talking single target here, that's AOE burst which also CCs every target and allows for a follow up executioner/steel tornado. Plus it can be fired off frequently due to shimmering shield. And this burst is just icing on the cake to all the great mobility/sustain/survivability the stamden has.
While running a whopping 11k defense, full divines, and 900 stam regen. It's a burst setup, but this obviously went over your head. Just as my perma block setup can tank 15 people while doing a whopping 400 damage per hit.
Seems to be alot of people who are in denial about there own setups and seek to point the finger.
Speaking the truth bro
You forum like you play, show up outta nowhere for a few secs and disa-fing-pear.0 -
Tonturri✭✭✭✭✭Nerf shimmering shield by increasing the cost. Maybe increase the magicka restore, or only restore magicka if all three absorbs are used, and then see where that leads. The ability totally negates projectiles for an low cost, even on a stamina build. Could also make it so that it restores ult per absorb? The ability just seems to be a massive reward for very, very little effort.
I do think they need a small nerf, but it seems difficult to do without overnerfing.
Some heavy armor set(s) also need adjustment. Tone down shimmering and that heavy armor set, then see how things go.
Edit: By restore ult per absorb, I mean a flat amount of ult per absorb, as opposed to major heroism per. A small amount of ult for the 1st absorb, more for the 2nd, and more for the 3rd. The goal is to make most of the benefit loaded on the back end of the ability. This way, a player can realize their opponent has the buff up and stop attacking to deny a significant amount of the benefit of said ability.Edited by Tonturri on December 16, 2017 11:34PM1 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Nerf shimmering shield by increasing the cost. Maybe increase the magicka restore, or only restore magicka if all three absorbs are used, and then see where that leads. The ability totally negates projectiles for an low cost, even on a stamina build. Could also make it so that it restores ult per absorb? The ability just seems to be a massive reward for very, very little effort.
I do think they need a small nerf, but it seems difficult to do without overnerfing.
Some heavy armor set(s) also need adjustment. Tone down shimmering and that heavy armor set, then see how things go.
Edit: By restore ult per absorb, I mean a flat amount of ult per absorb, as opposed to major heroism per. A small amount of ult for the 1st absorb, more for the 2nd, and more for the 3rd. The goal is to make most of the benefit loaded on the back end of the ability. This way, a player can realize their opponent has the buff up and stop attacking to deny a significant amount of the benefit of said ability.
I can get behind this0 -
zParallaxz✭✭✭✭✭
Lol that was one time bro lol, I had to go somewhere else.Waffennacht wrote: »zParallaxz wrote: »Wardens (in particular stamina) are not overpowered. I just feel they are good at what they do. Alot of people like to point the finger at them and claim "so much burst, so much sustain, so much mitigation". Well I will give my take on these 3 claims.
1. Damage. I feel like Stamward have few skills in their arsenal, but the ones they do have are strong. But can be easily counter with adaption. Dive can be counter with healing, block, and shields. Sub assault is countered by immobilization effects and shields. And yes I am aware to get a extremely strong shield stack you would be spending upwards of 9k magicka. But that leads into my 3rd point. Lastly the topic of major defile has been brought up. But people still fail to realize that this cost magicka just as much as expansive frost cloak or shimmering. Thus keeping defile up indefinitely is hard via corrupted field. I myself prefer reverberating bash as a both a stun and defile.
2. Sustain. I feel like sustain with warden is overrated. Outside of netch (218 regen), green passive (250 mag or stam), and shimmering (400 cost depending on absorb) there is little that makes a significant difference imo. Most of it comes through natural regen, heavy attacks, and heavy armor constitution, all of which are available to all classes. I also feel like
3. Mitigation. Wardens play alot like magsorcs depending on the target. Typically following a lock down and defend technique that follows into a counter during the cooldown on resources. For ranged magic builds a more offensive approach can be taken with shimmering. But. Shimmering is not the problem, the problem is aggression. The biggest counter to shimmering is reactive play. Shimmering only restores if you attack. So if you wait it out then the cost is much higher, and more difficult for a warden (especially stam) to maintain. During this reactive time good skills would be ground based immobilization effects and CC skills to try and waste stamina from the warden. If you can hold out with shields, healing, etc for a bit then the warden will have no chance of casting shimmering, thus leading to your counter phase. During which any class can use there normal arsenal to take down the warden.
During your attack phase a warden will be much more pressure once out of magicka, this leads to tree spam and heal spam (all of which use up the damage pool from the warden) if you have to do this rotation 2 or 3 times eventually you will succeed.
Lastly, this does not take into account the many different builds. For example my velidreth, innate axion, morag tong setup for burst doesn't need any of the defense stuff. Just CC and burst (but he does have 12k sub assault and 11k dawnbreaker so be careful lol)
Just my 2 cent, and again also just my opinion from my 42~ in game days of experience with stamina warden.
That right there. Warden's Subterranean Assault hits harder than a lot of ultimates. And no one thinks that's OP? Or the fact that they can spam Major Defile? Perhaps I'm just in the minority that happens to be venerable to most of the warden's attacks.
As an mDK- I have low mobility and I'm mostly melee range. As you know- mDKs get a lot of their heals from melee attacks. So, we're just kind of F#%&@ed again a warden that plops Major Defile and pops the Subterranean Assault/Wrecking Blow/Dawnbreaker/Executioner combo. Then again- I question why I keep playing the consistently gimped class in this game. I must be a masochist.
If your in melee range then anchor them down and force them to waste stamina. It's not rocket science. Also I've and ready stated that wardens cannot keep corrupted field up indefinitely while also spamming shimmering and ice fortress. Not possible.
Good yes. But not the best. Dk are better tanks, NB are better gankers, sorcs have better mobility and field control, Templars are better heals.Wardens (in particular stamina) are not overpowered...
...Lastly, this does not take into account the many different builds. For example my velidreth, innate axion, morag tong setup for burst doesn't need any of the defense stuff. Just CC and burst (but he does have 12k sub assault and 11k dawnbreaker so be careful lol)
I'm honestly not sure if this is a troll post. How you can say "Stamdens are not overpowered" and then with a straight face follow that up with "my stamden can do an instant 23,000 AOE damage which also CCs." You can't be serious. What other class can even come close to touching that kind of instant burst? And again, we aren't talking single target here, that's AOE burst which also CCs every target and allows for a follow up executioner/steel tornado. Plus it can be fired off frequently due to shimmering shield. And this burst is just icing on the cake to all the great mobility/sustain/survivability the stamden has.
While running a whopping 11k defense, full divines, and 900 stam regen. It's a burst setup, but this obviously went over your head. Just as my perma block setup can tank 15 people while doing a whopping 400 damage per hit.
Seems to be alot of people who are in denial about there own setups and seek to point the finger.
Speaking the truth bro
You forum like you play, show up outta nowhere for a few secs and disa-fing-pear.
1 -
Lord_Eomer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Heals, Tanky, Burst, Dot and excellent Utility skills!
Clearly over performing in PVP, especially Stam Warden. I hardly see Magicka Wardens in PVP!1 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭jcasini222ub17_ESO wrote: »Picture a dk or Templar (stam or mag) performing as well as a stamden in open world PvP and these forums would be in a rage.
But of course stamden success isn't based solely on class skills but the synergy between class, weapon lines, CPs and armor that allows them to be a too good jack of all trades.
Obviously for stamDk, the state of heavy armor and weapon skills,especially sword and board, are directly gonna effect its power.
But this is something different.
Problem is the fact that even a class like stamDK suffers because of indirect meta nerfs, while stamden is still kicking,
Its a strong point to show how much free power and flexibility warden really has.0 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Just wait til everyone realizes 2h isn’t the actual stam warden meta...Edited by Lexxypwns on December 17, 2017 3:54PM2 -
Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Invincibility to ranged builds with discount ultimate spam? Okay.
Stackable damage combo that instantly pulverizes any non-blocking enemy in the space of 2 GCD's? Aight.
Free Major Mending and Minor Toughness at basically all times for healing up like you normally would anyway? Well...
Low-cost, max-range spammable that single-handedly out-damages medium armor healing and mitigation? Right.
Believe it or not this list could go on...
I wouldn't even care about how overloaded this class is if ZOS' would stop wrecking the other classes ffs.6 -
Sarjako✭✭✭They seem to be OP, but I don't personally play one so it's hard to honestly say. From what I hear the Stam wardens are OP, the mag wardens are not from what I gather. I started a Stam Warden but I've been having fun with my other chars as of late.XBX1 NA
Healplar / StamDK-Tank / Stamblade / Magblade
CP 8100 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭shimmering shield.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 502 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I cannot see anyone legitimately thinking Warden is better than mNb or mDK 1v1
Better damage, easier to use abilities, better mitigation, harder hitting abilities, ultimates that actually kill/provide effects.
There's a reason there's like only ever 1 warden in dueling spots1 -
Jjitsuboy98✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »I cannot see anyone legitimately thinking Warden is better than mNb or mDK 1v1
Better damage, easier to use abilities, better mitigation, harder hitting abilities, ultimates that actually kill/provide effects.
There's a reason there's like only ever 1 warden in dueling spots
Mag night blade is the best dueling class. There are a few I can't come close to killing. Shields are to powerful and even with shimmering they are constantly dropping consistent pressure. Depends on the player though as there are garbage mage blades ive obliterated with one combo.0 -
Tonturri✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »I cannot see anyone legitimately thinking Warden is better than mNb or mDK 1v1
Better damage, easier to use abilities, better mitigation, harder hitting abilities, ultimates that actually kill/provide effects.
There's a reason there's like only ever 1 warden in dueling spots
Tbh I think this is more because people haven't bothered investing the time to find a good stam warden dueling setup (or those who have aren't sharing xD). There are some very enticing options with 1h/shield or DW. I wonder what would happen if you added a load of dots/constant defile on top of everything else warden has.
I've found it's just hard to cast aside beloved 2h.0 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »I cannot see anyone legitimately thinking Warden is better than mNb or mDK 1v1
Better damage, easier to use abilities, better mitigation, harder hitting abilities, ultimates that actually kill/provide effects.
There's a reason there's like only ever 1 warden in dueling spots
A ranged mageblade should never beat an equally skilled warden of either spec 1v1. You can just mitigate too much of their ranged damage with shimmering. Your defensive ultimate is up more often and you have easier access to defiles. You have a slightly worse burst mechanic that's up significantly more often. At worst you should be able to push a stalemate out of any ranged build on warden.
Then you can use corrupting to soft counter melee builds, the combination of these two things means you have the ability to stalemate duels indefinitely. There is no melee spec that can consistently go toe to toe with the warden due to corrupting and there's no ranged spec that can consistently put out enough dangerous damage due to shimmering.
The problem is, warden duel specs are pretty significantly different from their open world/BG counterparts, dizzying is just a poor ability to use 1v1 against competent players and DW magden suffers the same let-downs in a duel environment.
@Tonturri I've had success with both Bow+SnB and SnB+DW in duels with various setups. Adding potent DoTs to the warden's kit is disgustingly strong, especially with on demand defiles.Edited by Lexxypwns on December 17, 2017 9:17PM0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »I cannot see anyone legitimately thinking Warden is better than mNb or mDK 1v1
Better damage, easier to use abilities, better mitigation, harder hitting abilities, ultimates that actually kill/provide effects.
There's a reason there's like only ever 1 warden in dueling spots
Tbh I think this is more because people haven't bothered investing the time to find a good stam warden dueling setup (or those who have aren't sharing xD). There are some very enticing options with 1h/shield or DW. I wonder what would happen if you added a load of dots/constant defile on top of everything else warden has.
I've found it's just hard to cast aside beloved 2h.
Sounds like it becomes very similar to Stam Sorc, trading hurricane for sub Assault. Added benefit of a spot heal.
Even then, for that kind of combat, how can it compare to mDK? Templar had a strong argument for up close and personal0 -
Tonturri✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »I cannot see anyone legitimately thinking Warden is better than mNb or mDK 1v1
Better damage, easier to use abilities, better mitigation, harder hitting abilities, ultimates that actually kill/provide effects.
There's a reason there's like only ever 1 warden in dueling spots
Tbh I think this is more because people haven't bothered investing the time to find a good stam warden dueling setup (or those who have aren't sharing xD). There are some very enticing options with 1h/shield or DW. I wonder what would happen if you added a load of dots/constant defile on top of everything else warden has.
I've found it's just hard to cast aside beloved 2h.
Sounds like it becomes very similar to Stam Sorc, trading hurricane for sub Assault. Added benefit of a spot heal.
Even then, for that kind of combat, how can it compare to mDK? Templar had a strong argument for up close and personal
I made a setup in the eso build editor, but accidentally closed the window before I could save it xD Weh.
It was a DW/1h-shield setup, with 7th legion, bone pirate, and chudan/skele 1 piece on the head/shoulders (31, almost 32k resistances I think). Almost 4k weapon damage, axe bleed, Blood craze bleed + heal, and I think I managed to fit the DW aoe damage reduction thingy in there too. Add all that onto 1h-shield main bar and constant major defile (minor too probably if you run disease enchants somewhere, but I'm shorto n time and couldn't mess with that).
I think it'd compare very well, really. And the above took ~5min. I wouldn't be surprised if Lexy had something scarier.
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Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »I cannot see anyone legitimately thinking Warden is better than mNb or mDK 1v1
Better damage, easier to use abilities, better mitigation, harder hitting abilities, ultimates that actually kill/provide effects.
There's a reason there's like only ever 1 warden in dueling spots
Tbh I think this is more because people haven't bothered investing the time to find a good stam warden dueling setup (or those who have aren't sharing xD). There are some very enticing options with 1h/shield or DW. I wonder what would happen if you added a load of dots/constant defile on top of everything else warden has.
I've found it's just hard to cast aside beloved 2h.
Sounds like it becomes very similar to Stam Sorc, trading hurricane for sub Assault. Added benefit of a spot heal.
Even then, for that kind of combat, how can it compare to mDK? Templar had a strong argument for up close and personal
I made a setup in the eso build editor, but accidentally closed the window before I could save it xD Weh.
It was a DW/1h-shield setup, with 7th legion, bone pirate, and chudan/skele 1 piece on the head/shoulders (31, almost 32k resistances I think). Almost 4k weapon damage, axe bleed, Blood craze bleed + heal, and I think I managed to fit the DW aoe damage reduction thingy in there too. Add all that onto 1h-shield main bar and constant major defile (minor too probably if you run disease enchants somewhere, but I'm shorto n time and couldn't mess with that).
I think it'd compare very well, really. And the above took ~5min. I wouldn't be surprised if Lexy had something scarier.
For SnB DW.
7th+Alch back bar+skoria+masters dw gives ~6k weapon damage and you can run lava foot+netch for all the sustain you need
For Bow SnB(imo the stam warden dueling meta)
Truth+Poisonous serpent+Masters bow+undaunted of choice gives you ~5500 weapon damage and the poisonous serpent procEdited by Lexxypwns on December 18, 2017 12:07AM0 -
Jjitsuboy98✭✭✭✭I seem to be the only warden that uses SnB as their damage bar and 2 H as defensive bar...........0
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Thogard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Not the only one. There was a mediocre stamplar build posted about a month ago that made the same mistake.Jjitsuboy98 wrote: »I seem to be the only warden that uses SnB as their damage bar and 2 H as defensive bar...........
But as Lexy says, 2h offense in open world and BGs is much more effective than in duels.
When i want to duel, I drop dizzy and use birds in its place on my 2h bar, and I’ll drop ether falcon or shimmering (depending on who I’m fighting) and add reverb (or corrupting if it’s a magplar)Edited by Thogard on December 18, 2017 1:13AMPC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo
Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp0 -
zParallaxz✭✭✭✭✭
Why would u run skoria on a stamwarden?Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »I cannot see anyone legitimately thinking Warden is better than mNb or mDK 1v1
Better damage, easier to use abilities, better mitigation, harder hitting abilities, ultimates that actually kill/provide effects.
There's a reason there's like only ever 1 warden in dueling spots
Tbh I think this is more because people haven't bothered investing the time to find a good stam warden dueling setup (or those who have aren't sharing xD). There are some very enticing options with 1h/shield or DW. I wonder what would happen if you added a load of dots/constant defile on top of everything else warden has.
I've found it's just hard to cast aside beloved 2h.
Sounds like it becomes very similar to Stam Sorc, trading hurricane for sub Assault. Added benefit of a spot heal.
Even then, for that kind of combat, how can it compare to mDK? Templar had a strong argument for up close and personal
I made a setup in the eso build editor, but accidentally closed the window before I could save it xD Weh.
It was a DW/1h-shield setup, with 7th legion, bone pirate, and chudan/skele 1 piece on the head/shoulders (31, almost 32k resistances I think). Almost 4k weapon damage, axe bleed, Blood craze bleed + heal, and I think I managed to fit the DW aoe damage reduction thingy in there too. Add all that onto 1h-shield main bar and constant major defile (minor too probably if you run disease enchants somewhere, but I'm shorto n time and couldn't mess with that).
I think it'd compare very well, really. And the above took ~5min. I wouldn't be surprised if Lexy had something scarier.
For SnB DW.
7th+Alch back bar+skoria+masters dw gives ~6k weapon damage and you can run lava foot+netch for all the sustain you need
For Bow SnB(imo the stam warden dueling meta)
Truth+Poisonous serpent+Masters bow+undaunted of choice gives you ~5500 weapon damage and the poisonous serpent proc
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Jjitsuboy98✭✭✭✭zParallaxz wrote: »
Why would u run skoria on a stamwarden?Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »I cannot see anyone legitimately thinking Warden is better than mNb or mDK 1v1
Better damage, easier to use abilities, better mitigation, harder hitting abilities, ultimates that actually kill/provide effects.
There's a reason there's like only ever 1 warden in dueling spots
Tbh I think this is more because people haven't bothered investing the time to find a good stam warden dueling setup (or those who have aren't sharing xD). There are some very enticing options with 1h/shield or DW. I wonder what would happen if you added a load of dots/constant defile on top of everything else warden has.
I've found it's just hard to cast aside beloved 2h.
Sounds like it becomes very similar to Stam Sorc, trading hurricane for sub Assault. Added benefit of a spot heal.
Even then, for that kind of combat, how can it compare to mDK? Templar had a strong argument for up close and personal
I made a setup in the eso build editor, but accidentally closed the window before I could save it xD Weh.
It was a DW/1h-shield setup, with 7th legion, bone pirate, and chudan/skele 1 piece on the head/shoulders (31, almost 32k resistances I think). Almost 4k weapon damage, axe bleed, Blood craze bleed + heal, and I think I managed to fit the DW aoe damage reduction thingy in there too. Add all that onto 1h-shield main bar and constant major defile (minor too probably if you run disease enchants somewhere, but I'm shorto n time and couldn't mess with that).
I think it'd compare very well, really. And the above took ~5min. I wouldn't be surprised if Lexy had something scarier.
For SnB DW.
7th+Alch back bar+skoria+masters dw gives ~6k weapon damage and you can run lava foot+netch for all the sustain you need
For Bow SnB(imo the stam warden dueling meta)
Truth+Poisonous serpent+Masters bow+undaunted of choice gives you ~5500 weapon damage and the poisonous serpent proc
Still hits hard and procs often0 -
Jjitsuboy98✭✭✭✭
Not the only one. There was a mediocre stamplar build posted about a month ago that made the same mistake.Jjitsuboy98 wrote: »I seem to be the only warden that uses SnB as their damage bar and 2 H as defensive bar...........
But as Lexy says, 2h offense in open world and BGs is much more effective than in duels.
When i want to duel, I drop dizzy and use birds in its place on my 2h bar, and I’ll drop ether falcon or shimmering (depending on who I’m fighting) and add reverb (or corrupting if it’s a magplar)
I absolutely hate dizzy swing. It's garbage. It's way to damn laggy to be aiming it. It also leaves you open to get incapped. If I was on PC I might run it. With heroic slash I can animation cancel it with light attack and bash plus run reverb. I kinda play warden as if I was on my stam dk.0 -
zParallaxz✭✭✭✭✭Jjitsuboy98 wrote: »zParallaxz wrote: »
Why would u run skoria on a stamwarden?Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »I cannot see anyone legitimately thinking Warden is better than mNb or mDK 1v1
Better damage, easier to use abilities, better mitigation, harder hitting abilities, ultimates that actually kill/provide effects.
There's a reason there's like only ever 1 warden in dueling spots
Tbh I think this is more because people haven't bothered investing the time to find a good stam warden dueling setup (or those who have aren't sharing xD). There are some very enticing options with 1h/shield or DW. I wonder what would happen if you added a load of dots/constant defile on top of everything else warden has.
I've found it's just hard to cast aside beloved 2h.
Sounds like it becomes very similar to Stam Sorc, trading hurricane for sub Assault. Added benefit of a spot heal.
Even then, for that kind of combat, how can it compare to mDK? Templar had a strong argument for up close and personal
I made a setup in the eso build editor, but accidentally closed the window before I could save it xD Weh.
It was a DW/1h-shield setup, with 7th legion, bone pirate, and chudan/skele 1 piece on the head/shoulders (31, almost 32k resistances I think). Almost 4k weapon damage, axe bleed, Blood craze bleed + heal, and I think I managed to fit the DW aoe damage reduction thingy in there too. Add all that onto 1h-shield main bar and constant major defile (minor too probably if you run disease enchants somewhere, but I'm shorto n time and couldn't mess with that).
I think it'd compare very well, really. And the above took ~5min. I wouldn't be surprised if Lexy had something scarier.
For SnB DW.
7th+Alch back bar+skoria+masters dw gives ~6k weapon damage and you can run lava foot+netch for all the sustain you need
For Bow SnB(imo the stam warden dueling meta)
Truth+Poisonous serpent+Masters bow+undaunted of choice gives you ~5500 weapon damage and the poisonous serpent proc
Still hits hard and procs often
Lol no bro it wouldn’t hit past 3k on decent resistance players.0 -
Jjitsuboy98✭✭✭✭zParallaxz wrote: »Jjitsuboy98 wrote: »zParallaxz wrote: »
Why would u run skoria on a stamwarden?Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »I cannot see anyone legitimately thinking Warden is better than mNb or mDK 1v1
Better damage, easier to use abilities, better mitigation, harder hitting abilities, ultimates that actually kill/provide effects.
There's a reason there's like only ever 1 warden in dueling spots
Tbh I think this is more because people haven't bothered investing the time to find a good stam warden dueling setup (or those who have aren't sharing xD). There are some very enticing options with 1h/shield or DW. I wonder what would happen if you added a load of dots/constant defile on top of everything else warden has.
I've found it's just hard to cast aside beloved 2h.
Sounds like it becomes very similar to Stam Sorc, trading hurricane for sub Assault. Added benefit of a spot heal.
Even then, for that kind of combat, how can it compare to mDK? Templar had a strong argument for up close and personal
I made a setup in the eso build editor, but accidentally closed the window before I could save it xD Weh.
It was a DW/1h-shield setup, with 7th legion, bone pirate, and chudan/skele 1 piece on the head/shoulders (31, almost 32k resistances I think). Almost 4k weapon damage, axe bleed, Blood craze bleed + heal, and I think I managed to fit the DW aoe damage reduction thingy in there too. Add all that onto 1h-shield main bar and constant major defile (minor too probably if you run disease enchants somewhere, but I'm shorto n time and couldn't mess with that).
I think it'd compare very well, really. And the above took ~5min. I wouldn't be surprised if Lexy had something scarier.
For SnB DW.
7th+Alch back bar+skoria+masters dw gives ~6k weapon damage and you can run lava foot+netch for all the sustain you need
For Bow SnB(imo the stam warden dueling meta)
Truth+Poisonous serpent+Masters bow+undaunted of choice gives you ~5500 weapon damage and the poisonous serpent proc
Still hits hard and procs often
Lol no bro it wouldn’t hit past 3k on decent resistance players.
I have over a 12 k tooltip on my stamina Dk and I added a few extra cp into spell pen just to help out damage.0 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭zParallaxz wrote: »
Why would u run skoria on a stamwarden?Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »I cannot see anyone legitimately thinking Warden is better than mNb or mDK 1v1
Better damage, easier to use abilities, better mitigation, harder hitting abilities, ultimates that actually kill/provide effects.
There's a reason there's like only ever 1 warden in dueling spots
Tbh I think this is more because people haven't bothered investing the time to find a good stam warden dueling setup (or those who have aren't sharing xD). There are some very enticing options with 1h/shield or DW. I wonder what would happen if you added a load of dots/constant defile on top of everything else warden has.
I've found it's just hard to cast aside beloved 2h.
Sounds like it becomes very similar to Stam Sorc, trading hurricane for sub Assault. Added benefit of a spot heal.
Even then, for that kind of combat, how can it compare to mDK? Templar had a strong argument for up close and personal
I made a setup in the eso build editor, but accidentally closed the window before I could save it xD Weh.
It was a DW/1h-shield setup, with 7th legion, bone pirate, and chudan/skele 1 piece on the head/shoulders (31, almost 32k resistances I think). Almost 4k weapon damage, axe bleed, Blood craze bleed + heal, and I think I managed to fit the DW aoe damage reduction thingy in there too. Add all that onto 1h-shield main bar and constant major defile (minor too probably if you run disease enchants somewhere, but I'm shorto n time and couldn't mess with that).
I think it'd compare very well, really. And the above took ~5min. I wouldn't be surprised if Lexy had something scarier.
For SnB DW.
7th+Alch back bar+skoria+masters dw gives ~6k weapon damage and you can run lava foot+netch for all the sustain you need
For Bow SnB(imo the stam warden dueling meta)
Truth+Poisonous serpent+Masters bow+undaunted of choice gives you ~5500 weapon damage and the poisonous serpent proc
Because for duels on the SnB+DW setup I’m running trap, quick cloak, rending, axe bleed, and double DoT poisons. This means skoria procs nearly on cooldown. Furthermore, since you stack heavy into MAA and run tactician+exploiter you actually boost the damage of skoria higher than a lot of DoT based builds(the ones that usually run skoria) are able to get it. Remember, ele expert only adds 10% or less damage to skoria, I’m able to add much more than that through the class tool kit, the warden has native major breach and minor berserk, which both also increase the damage of skoria. It’s just an added layer of burst that works with all the DoTs and the heal debuffs. IMO, defensive undaunted sets are boring in duels on stam warden and they’re typically overkill against players that aren’t running a defile build.
I could run BS, but I don’t need the ulti gen and quick cloak gives more mitigation than BS. Since it’s not present on non-duel builds, you’ll actually have superior mitigation to an open world setup that uses Bloodspawn, this means you can look to other options. Malu and troll are both bugged and I don’t like to suggest them for duels. What else should I run in your opinion @zparalaxz
Edited by Lexxypwns on December 18, 2017 2:54AM0 -
Jjitsuboy98✭✭✭✭zParallaxz wrote: »
Why would u run skoria on a stamwarden?Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »I cannot see anyone legitimately thinking Warden is better than mNb or mDK 1v1
Better damage, easier to use abilities, better mitigation, harder hitting abilities, ultimates that actually kill/provide effects.
There's a reason there's like only ever 1 warden in dueling spots
Tbh I think this is more because people haven't bothered investing the time to find a good stam warden dueling setup (or those who have aren't sharing xD). There are some very enticing options with 1h/shield or DW. I wonder what would happen if you added a load of dots/constant defile on top of everything else warden has.
I've found it's just hard to cast aside beloved 2h.
Sounds like it becomes very similar to Stam Sorc, trading hurricane for sub Assault. Added benefit of a spot heal.
Even then, for that kind of combat, how can it compare to mDK? Templar had a strong argument for up close and personal
I made a setup in the eso build editor, but accidentally closed the window before I could save it xD Weh.
It was a DW/1h-shield setup, with 7th legion, bone pirate, and chudan/skele 1 piece on the head/shoulders (31, almost 32k resistances I think). Almost 4k weapon damage, axe bleed, Blood craze bleed + heal, and I think I managed to fit the DW aoe damage reduction thingy in there too. Add all that onto 1h-shield main bar and constant major defile (minor too probably if you run disease enchants somewhere, but I'm shorto n time and couldn't mess with that).
I think it'd compare very well, really. And the above took ~5min. I wouldn't be surprised if Lexy had something scarier.
For SnB DW.
7th+Alch back bar+skoria+masters dw gives ~6k weapon damage and you can run lava foot+netch for all the sustain you need
For Bow SnB(imo the stam warden dueling meta)
Truth+Poisonous serpent+Masters bow+undaunted of choice gives you ~5500 weapon damage and the poisonous serpent proc
Because for duels on the SnB+DW setup I’m running trap, quick cloak, rending, axe bleed, and double DoT poisons. This means skoria procs nearly on cooldown. Furthermore, since you stack heavy into MAA and run tactician+exploiter you actually boost the damage of skoria higher than a lot of DoT based builds(the ones that usually run skoria) are able to get it. Remember, ele expert only adds 10% or less damage to skoria, I’m able to add much more than that through the class tool kit, the warden has native major breach and minor berserk, which both also increase the damage of skoria. It’s just an added layer of burst that works with all the DoTs and the heal debuffs. IMO, defensive undaunted sets are boring in duels on stam warden and they’re typically overkill against players that aren’t running a defile build.
I could run BS, but I don’t need the ulti gen and quick cloak gives more mitigation than BS. Since it’s not present on non-duel builds, you’ll actually have superior mitigation to an open world setup that uses Bloodspawn, this means you can look to other options. Malu and troll are both bugged and I don’t like to suggest them for duels. What else should I run in your opinion @zparalaxz
I really wanna try DW SnB in open world.0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »I cannot see anyone legitimately thinking Warden is better than mNb or mDK 1v1
Better damage, easier to use abilities, better mitigation, harder hitting abilities, ultimates that actually kill/provide effects.
There's a reason there's like only ever 1 warden in dueling spots
A ranged mageblade should never beat an equally skilled warden of either spec 1v1. You can just mitigate too much of their ranged damage with shimmering. Your defensive ultimate is up more often and you have easier access to defiles. You have a slightly worse burst mechanic that's up significantly more often. At worst you should be able to push a stalemate out of any ranged build on warden.
Then you can use corrupting to soft counter melee builds, the combination of these two things means you have the ability to stalemate duels indefinitely. There is no melee spec that can consistently go toe to toe with the warden due to corrupting and there's no ranged spec that can consistently put out enough dangerous damage due to shimmering.
The problem is, warden duel specs are pretty significantly different from their open world/BG counterparts, dizzying is just a poor ability to use 1v1 against competent players and DW magden suffers the same let-downs in a duel environment.
@Tonturri I've had success with both Bow+SnB and SnB+DW in duels with various setups. Adding potent DoTs to the warden's kit is disgustingly strong, especially with on demand defiles.
A duel build on warden would run the bear though - which makes shimmering a debateable morph choice.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
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