Do you feel Wardens are over-performing in PvP content?

Derra

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I cannot see anyone legitimately thinking Warden is better than mNb or mDK 1v1

Better damage, easier to use abilities, better mitigation, harder hitting abilities, ultimates that actually kill/provide effects.

There's a reason there's like only ever 1 warden in dueling spots

A ranged mageblade should never beat an equally skilled warden of either spec 1v1. You can just mitigate too much of their ranged damage with shimmering. Your defensive ultimate is up more often and you have easier access to defiles. You have a slightly worse burst mechanic that's up significantly more often. At worst you should be able to push a stalemate out of any ranged build on warden.

Then you can use corrupting to soft counter melee builds, the combination of these two things means you have the ability to stalemate duels indefinitely. There is no melee spec that can consistently go toe to toe with the warden due to corrupting and there's no ranged spec that can consistently put out enough dangerous damage due to shimmering.

The problem is, warden duel specs are pretty significantly different from their open world/BG counterparts, dizzying is just a poor ability to use 1v1 against competent players and DW magden suffers the same let-downs in a duel environment.

@Tonturri I've had success with both Bow+SnB and SnB+DW in duels with various setups. Adding potent DoTs to the warden's kit is disgustingly strong, especially with on demand defiles.

A duel build on warden would run the bear though - which makes shimmering a debateable morph choice.

Thogard

Derra wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I cannot see anyone legitimately thinking Warden is better than mNb or mDK 1v1

Better damage, easier to use abilities, better mitigation, harder hitting abilities, ultimates that actually kill/provide effects.

There's a reason there's like only ever 1 warden in dueling spots

A ranged mageblade should never beat an equally skilled warden of either spec 1v1. You can just mitigate too much of their ranged damage with shimmering. Your defensive ultimate is up more often and you have easier access to defiles. You have a slightly worse burst mechanic that's up significantly more often. At worst you should be able to push a stalemate out of any ranged build on warden.

Then you can use corrupting to soft counter melee builds, the combination of these two things means you have the ability to stalemate duels indefinitely. There is no melee spec that can consistently go toe to toe with the warden due to corrupting and there's no ranged spec that can consistently put out enough dangerous damage due to shimmering.

The problem is, warden duel specs are pretty significantly different from their open world/BG counterparts, dizzying is just a poor ability to use 1v1 against competent players and DW magden suffers the same let-downs in a duel environment.

@Tonturri I've had success with both Bow+SnB and SnB+DW in duels with various setups. Adding potent DoTs to the warden's kit is disgustingly strong, especially with on demand defiles.

A duel build on warden would run the bear though - which makes shimmering a debateable morph choice.

Would a warden run bear for duels at a high level of play?

Doubtful.

Derra

Thogard wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I cannot see anyone legitimately thinking Warden is better than mNb or mDK 1v1

Better damage, easier to use abilities, better mitigation, harder hitting abilities, ultimates that actually kill/provide effects.

There's a reason there's like only ever 1 warden in dueling spots

A ranged mageblade should never beat an equally skilled warden of either spec 1v1. You can just mitigate too much of their ranged damage with shimmering. Your defensive ultimate is up more often and you have easier access to defiles. You have a slightly worse burst mechanic that's up significantly more often. At worst you should be able to push a stalemate out of any ranged build on warden.

Then you can use corrupting to soft counter melee builds, the combination of these two things means you have the ability to stalemate duels indefinitely. There is no melee spec that can consistently go toe to toe with the warden due to corrupting and there's no ranged spec that can consistently put out enough dangerous damage due to shimmering.

The problem is, warden duel specs are pretty significantly different from their open world/BG counterparts, dizzying is just a poor ability to use 1v1 against competent players and DW magden suffers the same let-downs in a duel environment.

@Tonturri I've had success with both Bow+SnB and SnB+DW in duels with various setups. Adding potent DoTs to the warden's kit is disgustingly strong, especially with on demand defiles.

A duel build on warden would run the bear though - which makes shimmering a debateable morph choice.

Would a warden run bear for duels at a high level of play?

Doubtful.

I´ve not seen one at a high level of play that didn´t run it.

olsborg

The entire class is designed to be undodgeable and has a heavy hitting ability that is unblockable (so does sorc, but it doesnt hit as hard)

Subassault hits through LOS.

Maulkin

olsborg wrote: »

The entire class is designed to be undodgeable and has a heavy hitting ability that is unblockable (so does sorc, but it doesnt hit as hard)

Subassault hits through LOS.

I'm pretty sure that's only the CC component of Deep Fissure.

Hecker777

Stamden lacks a class CC THIS IS A HUUUGEE lack that is easy to exploit! We have 0 usable class DoT's, Our main burst damage has a 3 second delay and untargeted frontal cone, yes they have access to a lot of defensive skills, but when your burst is that hard to get off AND we lack any form of cc that is exclusive to warden.

Lexxypwns

Jjitsuboy98 wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

zParallaxz wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Tonturri wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Tonturri wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I cannot see anyone legitimately thinking Warden is better than mNb or mDK 1v1

Better damage, easier to use abilities, better mitigation, harder hitting abilities, ultimates that actually kill/provide effects.

There's a reason there's like only ever 1 warden in dueling spots

Tbh I think this is more because people haven't bothered investing the time to find a good stam warden dueling setup (or those who have aren't sharing xD). There are some very enticing options with 1h/shield or DW. I wonder what would happen if you added a load of dots/constant defile on top of everything else warden has.

I've found it's just hard to cast aside beloved 2h.

Sounds like it becomes very similar to Stam Sorc, trading hurricane for sub Assault. Added benefit of a spot heal.

Even then, for that kind of combat, how can it compare to mDK? Templar had a strong argument for up close and personal

I made a setup in the eso build editor, but accidentally closed the window before I could save it xD Weh.

It was a DW/1h-shield setup, with 7th legion, bone pirate, and chudan/skele 1 piece on the head/shoulders (31, almost 32k resistances I think). Almost 4k weapon damage, axe bleed, Blood craze bleed + heal, and I think I managed to fit the DW aoe damage reduction thingy in there too. Add all that onto 1h-shield main bar and constant major defile (minor too probably if you run disease enchants somewhere, but I'm shorto n time and couldn't mess with that).

I think it'd compare very well, really. And the above took ~5min. I wouldn't be surprised if Lexy had something scarier.

For SnB DW.
7th+Alch back bar+skoria+masters dw gives ~6k weapon damage and you can run lava foot+netch for all the sustain you need

For Bow SnB(imo the stam warden dueling meta)
Truth+Poisonous serpent+Masters bow+undaunted of choice gives you ~5500 weapon damage and the poisonous serpent proc

Why would u run skoria on a stamwarden?

Because for duels on the SnB+DW setup I’m running trap, quick cloak, rending, axe bleed, and double DoT poisons. This means skoria procs nearly on cooldown. Furthermore, since you stack heavy into MAA and run tactician+exploiter you actually boost the damage of skoria higher than a lot of DoT based builds(the ones that usually run skoria) are able to get it. Remember, ele expert only adds 10% or less damage to skoria, I’m able to add much more than that through the class tool kit, the warden has native major breach and minor berserk, which both also increase the damage of skoria. It’s just an added layer of burst that works with all the DoTs and the heal debuffs. IMO, defensive undaunted sets are boring in duels on stam warden and they’re typically overkill against players that aren’t running a defile build.

I could run BS, but I don’t need the ulti gen and quick cloak gives more mitigation than BS. Since it’s not present on non-duel builds, you’ll actually have superior mitigation to an open world setup that uses Bloodspawn, this means you can look to other options. Malu and troll are both bugged and I don’t like to suggest them for duels. What else should I run in your opinion @zparalaxz

I really wanna try DW SnB in open world.

Gotta run it in medium so you can shuffle snares. Which means you’ll probably want Impreg. You can run robust jewels+2 body pieces then run a back bar set on your SnB and Masters DW or 2pc Agility/Shackle to fill stam/weapon damage as needed.

Dive, sub, rending, netch, blade cloak, DBoS
Vigor, spores, shuffle, fortress, shimmering, thicket/spell wall(solo)

Thogard wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I cannot see anyone legitimately thinking Warden is better than mNb or mDK 1v1

Better damage, easier to use abilities, better mitigation, harder hitting abilities, ultimates that actually kill/provide effects.

There's a reason there's like only ever 1 warden in dueling spots

A ranged mageblade should never beat an equally skilled warden of either spec 1v1. You can just mitigate too much of their ranged damage with shimmering. Your defensive ultimate is up more often and you have easier access to defiles. You have a slightly worse burst mechanic that's up significantly more often. At worst you should be able to push a stalemate out of any ranged build on warden.

Then you can use corrupting to soft counter melee builds, the combination of these two things means you have the ability to stalemate duels indefinitely. There is no melee spec that can consistently go toe to toe with the warden due to corrupting and there's no ranged spec that can consistently put out enough dangerous damage due to shimmering.

The problem is, warden duel specs are pretty significantly different from their open world/BG counterparts, dizzying is just a poor ability to use 1v1 against competent players and DW magden suffers the same let-downs in a duel environment.

@Tonturri I've had success with both Bow+SnB and SnB+DW in duels with various setups. Adding potent DoTs to the warden's kit is disgustingly strong, especially with on demand defiles.

A duel build on warden would run the bear though - which makes shimmering a debateable morph choice.

Would a warden run bear for duels at a high level of play?

Doubtful.

You don’t run bear because it’s banned at most respectable duel scenes due to being ridiculously over powered 1v1. If you drop into execute range it hits you for 30k and deletes a whole shield stack and your remaining health.

Durham

Sorry folks magicka > stam at the moment.

Defilted

I have both a Stam and mag warden. Been playing them in PVP since Morrowind.

I do not feel that either one of them is all powerful. I get killed all the time playing these classes so the class does not make me a all powerful pain train in PVP. I am an average skilled PVP player so if the class was truly overpowered then I would find tons of success in this class and not find it in others.

Overall...

PVP Stam Wardens are in a good place for the average player.
PVP Mag Wardens have good utility and are in a decent place(lacking some DPS)

PVE Stam Wardens?? way down on the tree
PVE Mag Wardens are really far behind.

I think they should leave Wardens alone and work on bringing others classes up if they need to be.. I say again, the players skill matters a lot here.

Until ZOS separates PVE and PVP balance changes , any change made to Wardens for one side will make the other side out of balance. Nerfing Shimmering IMO is a mistake and will kill the skill. The only acceptable change to me would be a increase in cost.

Lexxypwns

Durham wrote: »

Sorry folks magicka > stam at the moment.

It’s not even close either

zParallaxz

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

Sorry folks magicka > stam at the moment.

It’s not even close either

Bro that is so opinion based lol. Stamplars are still hard counters for most mag builds.

zParallaxz

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

jcasini222ub17_ESO wrote: »

Picture a dk or Templar (stam or mag) performing as well as a stamden in open world PvP and these forums would be in a rage.

But of course stamden success isn't based solely on class skills but the synergy between class, weapon lines, CPs and armor that allows them to be a too good jack of all trades.

Obviously for stamDk, the state of heavy armor and weapon skills,especially sword and board, are directly gonna effect its power.

But this is something different.

Problem is the fact that even a class like stamDK suffers because of indirect meta nerfs, while stamden is still kicking,
Its a strong point to show how much free power and flexibility warden really has.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

zParallaxz

Lexxypwns wrote: »

zParallaxz wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Tonturri wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Tonturri wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I cannot see anyone legitimately thinking Warden is better than mNb or mDK 1v1

Better damage, easier to use abilities, better mitigation, harder hitting abilities, ultimates that actually kill/provide effects.

There's a reason there's like only ever 1 warden in dueling spots

Tbh I think this is more because people haven't bothered investing the time to find a good stam warden dueling setup (or those who have aren't sharing xD). There are some very enticing options with 1h/shield or DW. I wonder what would happen if you added a load of dots/constant defile on top of everything else warden has.

I've found it's just hard to cast aside beloved 2h.

Sounds like it becomes very similar to Stam Sorc, trading hurricane for sub Assault. Added benefit of a spot heal.

Even then, for that kind of combat, how can it compare to mDK? Templar had a strong argument for up close and personal

I made a setup in the eso build editor, but accidentally closed the window before I could save it xD Weh.

It was a DW/1h-shield setup, with 7th legion, bone pirate, and chudan/skele 1 piece on the head/shoulders (31, almost 32k resistances I think). Almost 4k weapon damage, axe bleed, Blood craze bleed + heal, and I think I managed to fit the DW aoe damage reduction thingy in there too. Add all that onto 1h-shield main bar and constant major defile (minor too probably if you run disease enchants somewhere, but I'm shorto n time and couldn't mess with that).

I think it'd compare very well, really. And the above took ~5min. I wouldn't be surprised if Lexy had something scarier.

For SnB DW.
7th+Alch back bar+skoria+masters dw gives ~6k weapon damage and you can run lava foot+netch for all the sustain you need

For Bow SnB(imo the stam warden dueling meta)
Truth+Poisonous serpent+Masters bow+undaunted of choice gives you ~5500 weapon damage and the poisonous serpent proc

Why would u run skoria on a stamwarden?

Because for duels on the SnB+DW setup I’m running trap, quick cloak, rending, axe bleed, and double DoT poisons. This means skoria procs nearly on cooldown. Furthermore, since you stack heavy into MAA and run tactician+exploiter you actually boost the damage of skoria higher than a lot of DoT based builds(the ones that usually run skoria) are able to get it. Remember, ele expert only adds 10% or less damage to skoria, I’m able to add much more than that through the class tool kit, the warden has native major breach and minor berserk, which both also increase the damage of skoria. It’s just an added layer of burst that works with all the DoTs and the heal debuffs. IMO, defensive undaunted sets are boring in duels on stam warden and they’re typically overkill against players that aren’t running a defile build.

I could run BS, but I don’t need the ulti gen and quick cloak gives more mitigation than BS. Since it’s not present on non-duel builds, you’ll actually have superior mitigation to an open world setup that uses Bloodspawn, this means you can look to other options. Malu and troll are both bugged and I don’t like to suggest them for duels. What else should I run in your opinion @zparalaxz

I typically would once piece domi and another one piece max stam or stam recovery since I like playing with max stats and then mid high weapon damage that’s 3.7 or higher.

Jjitsuboy98

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Jjitsuboy98 wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

zParallaxz wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Tonturri wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Tonturri wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I cannot see anyone legitimately thinking Warden is better than mNb or mDK 1v1

Better damage, easier to use abilities, better mitigation, harder hitting abilities, ultimates that actually kill/provide effects.

There's a reason there's like only ever 1 warden in dueling spots

Tbh I think this is more because people haven't bothered investing the time to find a good stam warden dueling setup (or those who have aren't sharing xD). There are some very enticing options with 1h/shield or DW. I wonder what would happen if you added a load of dots/constant defile on top of everything else warden has.

I've found it's just hard to cast aside beloved 2h.

Sounds like it becomes very similar to Stam Sorc, trading hurricane for sub Assault. Added benefit of a spot heal.

Even then, for that kind of combat, how can it compare to mDK? Templar had a strong argument for up close and personal

I made a setup in the eso build editor, but accidentally closed the window before I could save it xD Weh.

It was a DW/1h-shield setup, with 7th legion, bone pirate, and chudan/skele 1 piece on the head/shoulders (31, almost 32k resistances I think). Almost 4k weapon damage, axe bleed, Blood craze bleed + heal, and I think I managed to fit the DW aoe damage reduction thingy in there too. Add all that onto 1h-shield main bar and constant major defile (minor too probably if you run disease enchants somewhere, but I'm shorto n time and couldn't mess with that).

I think it'd compare very well, really. And the above took ~5min. I wouldn't be surprised if Lexy had something scarier.

For SnB DW.
7th+Alch back bar+skoria+masters dw gives ~6k weapon damage and you can run lava foot+netch for all the sustain you need

For Bow SnB(imo the stam warden dueling meta)
Truth+Poisonous serpent+Masters bow+undaunted of choice gives you ~5500 weapon damage and the poisonous serpent proc

Why would u run skoria on a stamwarden?

Because for duels on the SnB+DW setup I’m running trap, quick cloak, rending, axe bleed, and double DoT poisons. This means skoria procs nearly on cooldown. Furthermore, since you stack heavy into MAA and run tactician+exploiter you actually boost the damage of skoria higher than a lot of DoT based builds(the ones that usually run skoria) are able to get it. Remember, ele expert only adds 10% or less damage to skoria, I’m able to add much more than that through the class tool kit, the warden has native major breach and minor berserk, which both also increase the damage of skoria. It’s just an added layer of burst that works with all the DoTs and the heal debuffs. IMO, defensive undaunted sets are boring in duels on stam warden and they’re typically overkill against players that aren’t running a defile build.

I could run BS, but I don’t need the ulti gen and quick cloak gives more mitigation than BS. Since it’s not present on non-duel builds, you’ll actually have superior mitigation to an open world setup that uses Bloodspawn, this means you can look to other options. Malu and troll are both bugged and I don’t like to suggest them for duels. What else should I run in your opinion @zparalaxz

I really wanna try DW SnB in open world.

Gotta run it in medium so you can shuffle snares. Which means you’ll probably want Impreg. You can run robust jewels+2 body pieces then run a back bar set on your SnB and Masters DW or 2pc Agility/Shackle to fill stam/weapon damage as needed.

Dive, sub, rending, netch, blade cloak, DBoS
Vigor, spores, shuffle, fortress, shimmering, thicket/spell wall(solo)

Thogard wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I cannot see anyone legitimately thinking Warden is better than mNb or mDK 1v1

Better damage, easier to use abilities, better mitigation, harder hitting abilities, ultimates that actually kill/provide effects.

There's a reason there's like only ever 1 warden in dueling spots

A ranged mageblade should never beat an equally skilled warden of either spec 1v1. You can just mitigate too much of their ranged damage with shimmering. Your defensive ultimate is up more often and you have easier access to defiles. You have a slightly worse burst mechanic that's up significantly more often. At worst you should be able to push a stalemate out of any ranged build on warden.

Then you can use corrupting to soft counter melee builds, the combination of these two things means you have the ability to stalemate duels indefinitely. There is no melee spec that can consistently go toe to toe with the warden due to corrupting and there's no ranged spec that can consistently put out enough dangerous damage due to shimmering.

The problem is, warden duel specs are pretty significantly different from their open world/BG counterparts, dizzying is just a poor ability to use 1v1 against competent players and DW magden suffers the same let-downs in a duel environment.

@Tonturri I've had success with both Bow+SnB and SnB+DW in duels with various setups. Adding potent DoTs to the warden's kit is disgustingly strong, especially with on demand defiles.

A duel build on warden would run the bear though - which makes shimmering a debateable morph choice.

Would a warden run bear for duels at a high level of play?

Doubtful.

You don’t run bear because it’s banned at most respectable duel scenes due to being ridiculously over powered 1v1. If you drop into execute range it hits you for 30k and deletes a whole shield stack and your remaining health.

Yeah been thinking of impregnable and seventh legion or impregnable and bone pirate. Having 12 k birds and 19 k dawnbreaker tooltips is temtping.

VaranisArano

Jjitsuboy98 wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Jjitsuboy98 wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

zParallaxz wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Tonturri wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Tonturri wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I cannot see anyone legitimately thinking Warden is better than mNb or mDK 1v1

Better damage, easier to use abilities, better mitigation, harder hitting abilities, ultimates that actually kill/provide effects.

There's a reason there's like only ever 1 warden in dueling spots

Tbh I think this is more because people haven't bothered investing the time to find a good stam warden dueling setup (or those who have aren't sharing xD). There are some very enticing options with 1h/shield or DW. I wonder what would happen if you added a load of dots/constant defile on top of everything else warden has.

I've found it's just hard to cast aside beloved 2h.

Sounds like it becomes very similar to Stam Sorc, trading hurricane for sub Assault. Added benefit of a spot heal.

Even then, for that kind of combat, how can it compare to mDK? Templar had a strong argument for up close and personal

I made a setup in the eso build editor, but accidentally closed the window before I could save it xD Weh.

It was a DW/1h-shield setup, with 7th legion, bone pirate, and chudan/skele 1 piece on the head/shoulders (31, almost 32k resistances I think). Almost 4k weapon damage, axe bleed, Blood craze bleed + heal, and I think I managed to fit the DW aoe damage reduction thingy in there too. Add all that onto 1h-shield main bar and constant major defile (minor too probably if you run disease enchants somewhere, but I'm shorto n time and couldn't mess with that).

I think it'd compare very well, really. And the above took ~5min. I wouldn't be surprised if Lexy had something scarier.

For SnB DW.
7th+Alch back bar+skoria+masters dw gives ~6k weapon damage and you can run lava foot+netch for all the sustain you need

For Bow SnB(imo the stam warden dueling meta)
Truth+Poisonous serpent+Masters bow+undaunted of choice gives you ~5500 weapon damage and the poisonous serpent proc

Why would u run skoria on a stamwarden?

Because for duels on the SnB+DW setup I’m running trap, quick cloak, rending, axe bleed, and double DoT poisons. This means skoria procs nearly on cooldown. Furthermore, since you stack heavy into MAA and run tactician+exploiter you actually boost the damage of skoria higher than a lot of DoT based builds(the ones that usually run skoria) are able to get it. Remember, ele expert only adds 10% or less damage to skoria, I’m able to add much more than that through the class tool kit, the warden has native major breach and minor berserk, which both also increase the damage of skoria. It’s just an added layer of burst that works with all the DoTs and the heal debuffs. IMO, defensive undaunted sets are boring in duels on stam warden and they’re typically overkill against players that aren’t running a defile build.

I could run BS, but I don’t need the ulti gen and quick cloak gives more mitigation than BS. Since it’s not present on non-duel builds, you’ll actually have superior mitigation to an open world setup that uses Bloodspawn, this means you can look to other options. Malu and troll are both bugged and I don’t like to suggest them for duels. What else should I run in your opinion @zparalaxz

I really wanna try DW SnB in open world.

Gotta run it in medium so you can shuffle snares. Which means you’ll probably want Impreg. You can run robust jewels+2 body pieces then run a back bar set on your SnB and Masters DW or 2pc Agility/Shackle to fill stam/weapon damage as needed.

Dive, sub, rending, netch, blade cloak, DBoS
Vigor, spores, shuffle, fortress, shimmering, thicket/spell wall(solo)

Thogard wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I cannot see anyone legitimately thinking Warden is better than mNb or mDK 1v1

Better damage, easier to use abilities, better mitigation, harder hitting abilities, ultimates that actually kill/provide effects.

There's a reason there's like only ever 1 warden in dueling spots

A ranged mageblade should never beat an equally skilled warden of either spec 1v1. You can just mitigate too much of their ranged damage with shimmering. Your defensive ultimate is up more often and you have easier access to defiles. You have a slightly worse burst mechanic that's up significantly more often. At worst you should be able to push a stalemate out of any ranged build on warden.

Then you can use corrupting to soft counter melee builds, the combination of these two things means you have the ability to stalemate duels indefinitely. There is no melee spec that can consistently go toe to toe with the warden due to corrupting and there's no ranged spec that can consistently put out enough dangerous damage due to shimmering.

The problem is, warden duel specs are pretty significantly different from their open world/BG counterparts, dizzying is just a poor ability to use 1v1 against competent players and DW magden suffers the same let-downs in a duel environment.

@Tonturri I've had success with both Bow+SnB and SnB+DW in duels with various setups. Adding potent DoTs to the warden's kit is disgustingly strong, especially with on demand defiles.

A duel build on warden would run the bear though - which makes shimmering a debateable morph choice.

Would a warden run bear for duels at a high level of play?

Doubtful.

You don’t run bear because it’s banned at most respectable duel scenes due to being ridiculously over powered 1v1. If you drop into execute range it hits you for 30k and deletes a whole shield stack and your remaining health.

Yeah been thinking of impregnable and seventh legion or impregnable and bone pirate. Having 12 k birds and 19 k dawnbreaker tooltips is temtping.

Those are the tooltips, of course. Battle Spirit will cut the damage in half to start with, and then you start looking at the average player's mitigation and the actual damage numbers drop pretty fast.

Jjitsuboy98

VaranisArano wrote: »

Jjitsuboy98 wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Jjitsuboy98 wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

zParallaxz wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Tonturri wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Tonturri wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I cannot see anyone legitimately thinking Warden is better than mNb or mDK 1v1

Better damage, easier to use abilities, better mitigation, harder hitting abilities, ultimates that actually kill/provide effects.

There's a reason there's like only ever 1 warden in dueling spots

Tbh I think this is more because people haven't bothered investing the time to find a good stam warden dueling setup (or those who have aren't sharing xD). There are some very enticing options with 1h/shield or DW. I wonder what would happen if you added a load of dots/constant defile on top of everything else warden has.

I've found it's just hard to cast aside beloved 2h.

Sounds like it becomes very similar to Stam Sorc, trading hurricane for sub Assault. Added benefit of a spot heal.

Even then, for that kind of combat, how can it compare to mDK? Templar had a strong argument for up close and personal

I made a setup in the eso build editor, but accidentally closed the window before I could save it xD Weh.

It was a DW/1h-shield setup, with 7th legion, bone pirate, and chudan/skele 1 piece on the head/shoulders (31, almost 32k resistances I think). Almost 4k weapon damage, axe bleed, Blood craze bleed + heal, and I think I managed to fit the DW aoe damage reduction thingy in there too. Add all that onto 1h-shield main bar and constant major defile (minor too probably if you run disease enchants somewhere, but I'm shorto n time and couldn't mess with that).

I think it'd compare very well, really. And the above took ~5min. I wouldn't be surprised if Lexy had something scarier.

For SnB DW.
7th+Alch back bar+skoria+masters dw gives ~6k weapon damage and you can run lava foot+netch for all the sustain you need

For Bow SnB(imo the stam warden dueling meta)
Truth+Poisonous serpent+Masters bow+undaunted of choice gives you ~5500 weapon damage and the poisonous serpent proc

Why would u run skoria on a stamwarden?

Because for duels on the SnB+DW setup I’m running trap, quick cloak, rending, axe bleed, and double DoT poisons. This means skoria procs nearly on cooldown. Furthermore, since you stack heavy into MAA and run tactician+exploiter you actually boost the damage of skoria higher than a lot of DoT based builds(the ones that usually run skoria) are able to get it. Remember, ele expert only adds 10% or less damage to skoria, I’m able to add much more than that through the class tool kit, the warden has native major breach and minor berserk, which both also increase the damage of skoria. It’s just an added layer of burst that works with all the DoTs and the heal debuffs. IMO, defensive undaunted sets are boring in duels on stam warden and they’re typically overkill against players that aren’t running a defile build.

I could run BS, but I don’t need the ulti gen and quick cloak gives more mitigation than BS. Since it’s not present on non-duel builds, you’ll actually have superior mitigation to an open world setup that uses Bloodspawn, this means you can look to other options. Malu and troll are both bugged and I don’t like to suggest them for duels. What else should I run in your opinion @zparalaxz

I really wanna try DW SnB in open world.

Gotta run it in medium so you can shuffle snares. Which means you’ll probably want Impreg. You can run robust jewels+2 body pieces then run a back bar set on your SnB and Masters DW or 2pc Agility/Shackle to fill stam/weapon damage as needed.

Dive, sub, rending, netch, blade cloak, DBoS
Vigor, spores, shuffle, fortress, shimmering, thicket/spell wall(solo)

Thogard wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I cannot see anyone legitimately thinking Warden is better than mNb or mDK 1v1

Better damage, easier to use abilities, better mitigation, harder hitting abilities, ultimates that actually kill/provide effects.

There's a reason there's like only ever 1 warden in dueling spots

A ranged mageblade should never beat an equally skilled warden of either spec 1v1. You can just mitigate too much of their ranged damage with shimmering. Your defensive ultimate is up more often and you have easier access to defiles. You have a slightly worse burst mechanic that's up significantly more often. At worst you should be able to push a stalemate out of any ranged build on warden.

Then you can use corrupting to soft counter melee builds, the combination of these two things means you have the ability to stalemate duels indefinitely. There is no melee spec that can consistently go toe to toe with the warden due to corrupting and there's no ranged spec that can consistently put out enough dangerous damage due to shimmering.

The problem is, warden duel specs are pretty significantly different from their open world/BG counterparts, dizzying is just a poor ability to use 1v1 against competent players and DW magden suffers the same let-downs in a duel environment.

@Tonturri I've had success with both Bow+SnB and SnB+DW in duels with various setups. Adding potent DoTs to the warden's kit is disgustingly strong, especially with on demand defiles.

A duel build on warden would run the bear though - which makes shimmering a debateable morph choice.

Would a warden run bear for duels at a high level of play?

Doubtful.

You don’t run bear because it’s banned at most respectable duel scenes due to being ridiculously over powered 1v1. If you drop into execute range it hits you for 30k and deletes a whole shield stack and your remaining health.

Yeah been thinking of impregnable and seventh legion or impregnable and bone pirate. Having 12 k birds and 19 k dawnbreaker tooltips is temtping.

Those are the tooltips, of course. Battle Spirit will cut the damage in half to start with, and then you start looking at the average player's mitigation and the actual damage numbers drop pretty fast.

Well yeah but tooltips give a general idea of what kind of damage I'll be doing. And those tooltips are a better than what I'm running now. Right now I'm running five heavy two medium seventh legion and bone pirate.

ak_pvp

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

Sorry folks magicka > stam at the moment.

It’s not even close either

Unless you are solo, in which stamNBs/Wardens and stamplars are better than mag versions, and 1vX stamDK is better too.

Waffennacht

I can't time Jack sh with the bear.

They drop into Execute range, activate bear, bear starts to lumber after them, they heal, bear hits, wasted bear...

Tryxus

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Jjitsuboy98 wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

zParallaxz wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Tonturri wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Tonturri wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I cannot see anyone legitimately thinking Warden is better than mNb or mDK 1v1

Better damage, easier to use abilities, better mitigation, harder hitting abilities, ultimates that actually kill/provide effects.

There's a reason there's like only ever 1 warden in dueling spots

Tbh I think this is more because people haven't bothered investing the time to find a good stam warden dueling setup (or those who have aren't sharing xD). There are some very enticing options with 1h/shield or DW. I wonder what would happen if you added a load of dots/constant defile on top of everything else warden has.

I've found it's just hard to cast aside beloved 2h.

Sounds like it becomes very similar to Stam Sorc, trading hurricane for sub Assault. Added benefit of a spot heal.

Even then, for that kind of combat, how can it compare to mDK? Templar had a strong argument for up close and personal

I made a setup in the eso build editor, but accidentally closed the window before I could save it xD Weh.

It was a DW/1h-shield setup, with 7th legion, bone pirate, and chudan/skele 1 piece on the head/shoulders (31, almost 32k resistances I think). Almost 4k weapon damage, axe bleed, Blood craze bleed + heal, and I think I managed to fit the DW aoe damage reduction thingy in there too. Add all that onto 1h-shield main bar and constant major defile (minor too probably if you run disease enchants somewhere, but I'm shorto n time and couldn't mess with that).

I think it'd compare very well, really. And the above took ~5min. I wouldn't be surprised if Lexy had something scarier.

For SnB DW.
7th+Alch back bar+skoria+masters dw gives ~6k weapon damage and you can run lava foot+netch for all the sustain you need

For Bow SnB(imo the stam warden dueling meta)
Truth+Poisonous serpent+Masters bow+undaunted of choice gives you ~5500 weapon damage and the poisonous serpent proc

Why would u run skoria on a stamwarden?

Because for duels on the SnB+DW setup I’m running trap, quick cloak, rending, axe bleed, and double DoT poisons. This means skoria procs nearly on cooldown. Furthermore, since you stack heavy into MAA and run tactician+exploiter you actually boost the damage of skoria higher than a lot of DoT based builds(the ones that usually run skoria) are able to get it. Remember, ele expert only adds 10% or less damage to skoria, I’m able to add much more than that through the class tool kit, the warden has native major breach and minor berserk, which both also increase the damage of skoria. It’s just an added layer of burst that works with all the DoTs and the heal debuffs. IMO, defensive undaunted sets are boring in duels on stam warden and they’re typically overkill against players that aren’t running a defile build.

I could run BS, but I don’t need the ulti gen and quick cloak gives more mitigation than BS. Since it’s not present on non-duel builds, you’ll actually have superior mitigation to an open world setup that uses Bloodspawn, this means you can look to other options. Malu and troll are both bugged and I don’t like to suggest them for duels. What else should I run in your opinion @zparalaxz

I really wanna try DW SnB in open world.

Gotta run it in medium so you can shuffle snares. Which means you’ll probably want Impreg. You can run robust jewels+2 body pieces then run a back bar set on your SnB and Masters DW or 2pc Agility/Shackle to fill stam/weapon damage as needed.

Dive, sub, rending, netch, blade cloak, DBoS
Vigor, spores, shuffle, fortress, shimmering, thicket/spell wall(solo)

Thogard wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I cannot see anyone legitimately thinking Warden is better than mNb or mDK 1v1

Better damage, easier to use abilities, better mitigation, harder hitting abilities, ultimates that actually kill/provide effects.

There's a reason there's like only ever 1 warden in dueling spots

A ranged mageblade should never beat an equally skilled warden of either spec 1v1. You can just mitigate too much of their ranged damage with shimmering. Your defensive ultimate is up more often and you have easier access to defiles. You have a slightly worse burst mechanic that's up significantly more often. At worst you should be able to push a stalemate out of any ranged build on warden.

Then you can use corrupting to soft counter melee builds, the combination of these two things means you have the ability to stalemate duels indefinitely. There is no melee spec that can consistently go toe to toe with the warden due to corrupting and there's no ranged spec that can consistently put out enough dangerous damage due to shimmering.

The problem is, warden duel specs are pretty significantly different from their open world/BG counterparts, dizzying is just a poor ability to use 1v1 against competent players and DW magden suffers the same let-downs in a duel environment.

@Tonturri I've had success with both Bow+SnB and SnB+DW in duels with various setups. Adding potent DoTs to the warden's kit is disgustingly strong, especially with on demand defiles.

A duel build on warden would run the bear though - which makes shimmering a debateable morph choice.

Would a warden run bear for duels at a high level of play?

Doubtful.

You don’t run bear because it’s banned at most respectable duel scenes due to being ridiculously over powered 1v1. If you drop into execute range it hits you for 30k and deletes a whole shield stack and your remaining health.

The Bear itself is fine since it has several drawbacks like having to double bar it, a long cast time, a bit slow moving, etc, ... But yeah, once you hit execute range, that's when the Bear does ridiculous amounts of damage. Think Incap or Leap multiplied by 2 or even 3.

It's actually well worth using it (if it's allowed), as long as you can build for survival since you're losing the 2nd ulti slot. Which isn't really an issue for a MagDen

Waffennacht wrote: »

I can't time Jack sh with the bear.

They drop into Execute range, activate bear, bear starts to lumber after them, they heal, bear hits, wasted bear...

Funny. I don't seem to be having any issues with that...



A few examples of Bear Powah!

Waffennacht

Tryxus wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Jjitsuboy98 wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

zParallaxz wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Tonturri wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Tonturri wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I cannot see anyone legitimately thinking Warden is better than mNb or mDK 1v1

Better damage, easier to use abilities, better mitigation, harder hitting abilities, ultimates that actually kill/provide effects.

There's a reason there's like only ever 1 warden in dueling spots

Tbh I think this is more because people haven't bothered investing the time to find a good stam warden dueling setup (or those who have aren't sharing xD). There are some very enticing options with 1h/shield or DW. I wonder what would happen if you added a load of dots/constant defile on top of everything else warden has.

I've found it's just hard to cast aside beloved 2h.

Sounds like it becomes very similar to Stam Sorc, trading hurricane for sub Assault. Added benefit of a spot heal.

Even then, for that kind of combat, how can it compare to mDK? Templar had a strong argument for up close and personal

I made a setup in the eso build editor, but accidentally closed the window before I could save it xD Weh.

It was a DW/1h-shield setup, with 7th legion, bone pirate, and chudan/skele 1 piece on the head/shoulders (31, almost 32k resistances I think). Almost 4k weapon damage, axe bleed, Blood craze bleed + heal, and I think I managed to fit the DW aoe damage reduction thingy in there too. Add all that onto 1h-shield main bar and constant major defile (minor too probably if you run disease enchants somewhere, but I'm shorto n time and couldn't mess with that).

I think it'd compare very well, really. And the above took ~5min. I wouldn't be surprised if Lexy had something scarier.

For SnB DW.
7th+Alch back bar+skoria+masters dw gives ~6k weapon damage and you can run lava foot+netch for all the sustain you need

For Bow SnB(imo the stam warden dueling meta)
Truth+Poisonous serpent+Masters bow+undaunted of choice gives you ~5500 weapon damage and the poisonous serpent proc

Why would u run skoria on a stamwarden?

Because for duels on the SnB+DW setup I’m running trap, quick cloak, rending, axe bleed, and double DoT poisons. This means skoria procs nearly on cooldown. Furthermore, since you stack heavy into MAA and run tactician+exploiter you actually boost the damage of skoria higher than a lot of DoT based builds(the ones that usually run skoria) are able to get it. Remember, ele expert only adds 10% or less damage to skoria, I’m able to add much more than that through the class tool kit, the warden has native major breach and minor berserk, which both also increase the damage of skoria. It’s just an added layer of burst that works with all the DoTs and the heal debuffs. IMO, defensive undaunted sets are boring in duels on stam warden and they’re typically overkill against players that aren’t running a defile build.

I could run BS, but I don’t need the ulti gen and quick cloak gives more mitigation than BS. Since it’s not present on non-duel builds, you’ll actually have superior mitigation to an open world setup that uses Bloodspawn, this means you can look to other options. Malu and troll are both bugged and I don’t like to suggest them for duels. What else should I run in your opinion @zparalaxz

I really wanna try DW SnB in open world.

Gotta run it in medium so you can shuffle snares. Which means you’ll probably want Impreg. You can run robust jewels+2 body pieces then run a back bar set on your SnB and Masters DW or 2pc Agility/Shackle to fill stam/weapon damage as needed.

Dive, sub, rending, netch, blade cloak, DBoS
Vigor, spores, shuffle, fortress, shimmering, thicket/spell wall(solo)

Thogard wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I cannot see anyone legitimately thinking Warden is better than mNb or mDK 1v1

Better damage, easier to use abilities, better mitigation, harder hitting abilities, ultimates that actually kill/provide effects.

There's a reason there's like only ever 1 warden in dueling spots

A ranged mageblade should never beat an equally skilled warden of either spec 1v1. You can just mitigate too much of their ranged damage with shimmering. Your defensive ultimate is up more often and you have easier access to defiles. You have a slightly worse burst mechanic that's up significantly more often. At worst you should be able to push a stalemate out of any ranged build on warden.

Then you can use corrupting to soft counter melee builds, the combination of these two things means you have the ability to stalemate duels indefinitely. There is no melee spec that can consistently go toe to toe with the warden due to corrupting and there's no ranged spec that can consistently put out enough dangerous damage due to shimmering.

The problem is, warden duel specs are pretty significantly different from their open world/BG counterparts, dizzying is just a poor ability to use 1v1 against competent players and DW magden suffers the same let-downs in a duel environment.

@Tonturri I've had success with both Bow+SnB and SnB+DW in duels with various setups. Adding potent DoTs to the warden's kit is disgustingly strong, especially with on demand defiles.

A duel build on warden would run the bear though - which makes shimmering a debateable morph choice.

Would a warden run bear for duels at a high level of play?

Doubtful.

You don’t run bear because it’s banned at most respectable duel scenes due to being ridiculously over powered 1v1. If you drop into execute range it hits you for 30k and deletes a whole shield stack and your remaining health.

The Bear itself is fine since it has several drawbacks like having to double bar it, a long cast time, a bit slow moving, etc, ... But yeah, once you hit execute range, that's when the Bear does ridiculous amounts of damage. Think Incap or Leap multiplied by 2 or even 3.

It's actually well worth using it (if it's allowed), as long as you can build for survival since you're losing the 2nd ulti slot. Which isn't really an issue for a MagDen

Waffennacht wrote: »

I can't time Jack sh with the bear.

They drop into Execute range, activate bear, bear starts to lumber after them, they heal, bear hits, wasted bear...

Funny. I don't seem to be having any issues with that...



A few examples of Bear Powah!

Lol I'm assuming it's operator error

Laquey

Waffennacht wrote: »

Worse? Not the word I would have chosen... Rusty would be my choice (cus I know you're awesome)

Drop the staff! Forget the old burst combo!

It's all about 8.5k birds! Lol.

Shimmering blocks I think 5-6k DMG, so birds still hits decently. The big gun is fissure of course.

Last tournament I know of was mNB vs mWarden with NB winning.

Oh flies is unblockable fyi, have had a 6k tick from a fly.

The mag warden has some mad advantages over Stam.

And I'm bringing my mag sorc outta retirement muhahaha

Unless the Meta Stam Warden drops an immovable pot it's burst is relatively controllable by anyone who has a instant timable CC and can dodge roll sideways well. The first shalk / swing can be CC weaved with your own burst and the second swing combo can be dodge rolled if you're topped up / shielded. If they drop an immovable pot you just heal up / survive while they burn off the 15 second cool down with shields / heals etc.

I play a non Meta Stam Warden and I generally find that a reverberating bash combined with dodge rolls allows you to reverse preasure on them quite easily and send them into the pillar humping mode. If they drop dawn breaker on you and move to execute just trees / dodgeroll / vigor and you're fine. I do loose to meta stamden but it's straight forward fight with their normal toolkit and your enemies are really only yourself and lag.

I also find matches against Magwarden comes down to who can maintain preasure the best and again I find that meta stam warden has this hard up because their offence is in 2H mode which shields do well against and the mag warden has layed shields to answer bust while maintaining a pretty vicious dot.

Above are the reasons I don't run meta warden and quite frankly have more success with my build. I can't 1vX against potatoes as well but I was finding the 2H was quite a handicap against a lot of the targets I ran into in Cyrodil.

Lexxypwns

zParallaxz wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

zParallaxz wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Tonturri wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Tonturri wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I cannot see anyone legitimately thinking Warden is better than mNb or mDK 1v1

Better damage, easier to use abilities, better mitigation, harder hitting abilities, ultimates that actually kill/provide effects.

There's a reason there's like only ever 1 warden in dueling spots

Tbh I think this is more because people haven't bothered investing the time to find a good stam warden dueling setup (or those who have aren't sharing xD). There are some very enticing options with 1h/shield or DW. I wonder what would happen if you added a load of dots/constant defile on top of everything else warden has.

I've found it's just hard to cast aside beloved 2h.

Sounds like it becomes very similar to Stam Sorc, trading hurricane for sub Assault. Added benefit of a spot heal.

Even then, for that kind of combat, how can it compare to mDK? Templar had a strong argument for up close and personal

I made a setup in the eso build editor, but accidentally closed the window before I could save it xD Weh.

It was a DW/1h-shield setup, with 7th legion, bone pirate, and chudan/skele 1 piece on the head/shoulders (31, almost 32k resistances I think). Almost 4k weapon damage, axe bleed, Blood craze bleed + heal, and I think I managed to fit the DW aoe damage reduction thingy in there too. Add all that onto 1h-shield main bar and constant major defile (minor too probably if you run disease enchants somewhere, but I'm shorto n time and couldn't mess with that).

I think it'd compare very well, really. And the above took ~5min. I wouldn't be surprised if Lexy had something scarier.

For SnB DW.
7th+Alch back bar+skoria+masters dw gives ~6k weapon damage and you can run lava foot+netch for all the sustain you need

For Bow SnB(imo the stam warden dueling meta)
Truth+Poisonous serpent+Masters bow+undaunted of choice gives you ~5500 weapon damage and the poisonous serpent proc

Why would u run skoria on a stamwarden?

Because for duels on the SnB+DW setup I’m running trap, quick cloak, rending, axe bleed, and double DoT poisons. This means skoria procs nearly on cooldown. Furthermore, since you stack heavy into MAA and run tactician+exploiter you actually boost the damage of skoria higher than a lot of DoT based builds(the ones that usually run skoria) are able to get it. Remember, ele expert only adds 10% or less damage to skoria, I’m able to add much more than that through the class tool kit, the warden has native major breach and minor berserk, which both also increase the damage of skoria. It’s just an added layer of burst that works with all the DoTs and the heal debuffs. IMO, defensive undaunted sets are boring in duels on stam warden and they’re typically overkill against players that aren’t running a defile build.

I could run BS, but I don’t need the ulti gen and quick cloak gives more mitigation than BS. Since it’s not present on non-duel builds, you’ll actually have superior mitigation to an open world setup that uses Bloodspawn, this means you can look to other options. Malu and troll are both bugged and I don’t like to suggest them for duels. What else should I run in your opinion @zparalaxz

I typically would once piece domi and another one piece max stam or stam recovery since I like playing with max stats and then mid high weapon damage that’s 3.7 or higher.

Skoria adds more damage than 2 max stam pieces and it comes in the form of burst that lines up with sub...

Ohhgrizyyy

kylewwefan wrote: »

Maybe I’m doing something horribly wrong with mine, but it does not feel op at all. Not even a little bit. Nerf Sorcs.

Still people want nerf sorc threads....I literally have 0 issues with them as a Magplar...Now that frags doesn't stun and shields are *** I think it's a problem of L2P for you my friend..Sorry. Oh and my opinion on Wardens is they are good at everything except damage. An Undodgeable spammable ability. Major mending=amazing heals and free stamina? Yea tiny bit broken.

Jjitsuboy98

Jjitsuboy98 wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Jjitsuboy98 wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

zParallaxz wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Tonturri wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Tonturri wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I cannot see anyone legitimately thinking Warden is better than mNb or mDK 1v1

Better damage, easier to use abilities, better mitigation, harder hitting abilities, ultimates that actually kill/provide effects.

There's a reason there's like only ever 1 warden in dueling spots

Tbh I think this is more because people haven't bothered investing the time to find a good stam warden dueling setup (or those who have aren't sharing xD). There are some very enticing options with 1h/shield or DW. I wonder what would happen if you added a load of dots/constant defile on top of everything else warden has.

I've found it's just hard to cast aside beloved 2h.

Sounds like it becomes very similar to Stam Sorc, trading hurricane for sub Assault. Added benefit of a spot heal.

Even then, for that kind of combat, how can it compare to mDK? Templar had a strong argument for up close and personal

I made a setup in the eso build editor, but accidentally closed the window before I could save it xD Weh.

It was a DW/1h-shield setup, with 7th legion, bone pirate, and chudan/skele 1 piece on the head/shoulders (31, almost 32k resistances I think). Almost 4k weapon damage, axe bleed, Blood craze bleed + heal, and I think I managed to fit the DW aoe damage reduction thingy in there too. Add all that onto 1h-shield main bar and constant major defile (minor too probably if you run disease enchants somewhere, but I'm shorto n time and couldn't mess with that).

I think it'd compare very well, really. And the above took ~5min. I wouldn't be surprised if Lexy had something scarier.

For SnB DW.
7th+Alch back bar+skoria+masters dw gives ~6k weapon damage and you can run lava foot+netch for all the sustain you need

For Bow SnB(imo the stam warden dueling meta)
Truth+Poisonous serpent+Masters bow+undaunted of choice gives you ~5500 weapon damage and the poisonous serpent proc

Why would u run skoria on a stamwarden?

Because for duels on the SnB+DW setup I’m running trap, quick cloak, rending, axe bleed, and double DoT poisons. This means skoria procs nearly on cooldown. Furthermore, since you stack heavy into MAA and run tactician+exploiter you actually boost the damage of skoria higher than a lot of DoT based builds(the ones that usually run skoria) are able to get it. Remember, ele expert only adds 10% or less damage to skoria, I’m able to add much more than that through the class tool kit, the warden has native major breach and minor berserk, which both also increase the damage of skoria. It’s just an added layer of burst that works with all the DoTs and the heal debuffs. IMO, defensive undaunted sets are boring in duels on stam warden and they’re typically overkill against players that aren’t running a defile build.

I could run BS, but I don’t need the ulti gen and quick cloak gives more mitigation than BS. Since it’s not present on non-duel builds, you’ll actually have superior mitigation to an open world setup that uses Bloodspawn, this means you can look to other options. Malu and troll are both bugged and I don’t like to suggest them for duels. What else should I run in your opinion @zparalaxz

I really wanna try DW SnB in open world.

Gotta run it in medium so you can shuffle snares. Which means you’ll probably want Impreg. You can run robust jewels+2 body pieces then run a back bar set on your SnB and Masters DW or 2pc Agility/Shackle to fill stam/weapon damage as needed.

Dive, sub, rending, netch, blade cloak, DBoS
Vigor, spores, shuffle, fortress, shimmering, thicket/spell wall(solo)

Thogard wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I cannot see anyone legitimately thinking Warden is better than mNb or mDK 1v1

Better damage, easier to use abilities, better mitigation, harder hitting abilities, ultimates that actually kill/provide effects.

There's a reason there's like only ever 1 warden in dueling spots

A ranged mageblade should never beat an equally skilled warden of either spec 1v1. You can just mitigate too much of their ranged damage with shimmering. Your defensive ultimate is up more often and you have easier access to defiles. You have a slightly worse burst mechanic that's up significantly more often. At worst you should be able to push a stalemate out of any ranged build on warden.

Then you can use corrupting to soft counter melee builds, the combination of these two things means you have the ability to stalemate duels indefinitely. There is no melee spec that can consistently go toe to toe with the warden due to corrupting and there's no ranged spec that can consistently put out enough dangerous damage due to shimmering.

The problem is, warden duel specs are pretty significantly different from their open world/BG counterparts, dizzying is just a poor ability to use 1v1 against competent players and DW magden suffers the same let-downs in a duel environment.

@Tonturri I've had success with both Bow+SnB and SnB+DW in duels with various setups. Adding potent DoTs to the warden's kit is disgustingly strong, especially with on demand defiles.

A duel build on warden would run the bear though - which makes shimmering a debateable morph choice.

Would a warden run bear for duels at a high level of play?

Doubtful.

You don’t run bear because it’s banned at most respectable duel scenes due to being ridiculously over powered 1v1. If you drop into execute range it hits you for 30k and deletes a whole shield stack and your remaining health.

Yeah been thinking of impregnable and seventh legion or impregnable and bone pirate. Having 12 k birds and 19 k dawnbreaker tooltips is temtping.

Although I don't think seventh legion would be a good back bar set since it's only four seconds. Perhaps clever alchemist would be more appropriate.

Lexxypwns wrote: »

zParallaxz wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

zParallaxz wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Tonturri wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Tonturri wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I cannot see anyone legitimately thinking Warden is better than mNb or mDK 1v1

Better damage, easier to use abilities, better mitigation, harder hitting abilities, ultimates that actually kill/provide effects.

There's a reason there's like only ever 1 warden in dueling spots

Tbh I think this is more because people haven't bothered investing the time to find a good stam warden dueling setup (or those who have aren't sharing xD). There are some very enticing options with 1h/shield or DW. I wonder what would happen if you added a load of dots/constant defile on top of everything else warden has.

I've found it's just hard to cast aside beloved 2h.

Sounds like it becomes very similar to Stam Sorc, trading hurricane for sub Assault. Added benefit of a spot heal.

Even then, for that kind of combat, how can it compare to mDK? Templar had a strong argument for up close and personal

I made a setup in the eso build editor, but accidentally closed the window before I could save it xD Weh.

It was a DW/1h-shield setup, with 7th legion, bone pirate, and chudan/skele 1 piece on the head/shoulders (31, almost 32k resistances I think). Almost 4k weapon damage, axe bleed, Blood craze bleed + heal, and I think I managed to fit the DW aoe damage reduction thingy in there too. Add all that onto 1h-shield main bar and constant major defile (minor too probably if you run disease enchants somewhere, but I'm shorto n time and couldn't mess with that).

I think it'd compare very well, really. And the above took ~5min. I wouldn't be surprised if Lexy had something scarier.

For SnB DW.
7th+Alch back bar+skoria+masters dw gives ~6k weapon damage and you can run lava foot+netch for all the sustain you need

For Bow SnB(imo the stam warden dueling meta)
Truth+Poisonous serpent+Masters bow+undaunted of choice gives you ~5500 weapon damage and the poisonous serpent proc

Why would u run skoria on a stamwarden?

Because for duels on the SnB+DW setup I’m running trap, quick cloak, rending, axe bleed, and double DoT poisons. This means skoria procs nearly on cooldown. Furthermore, since you stack heavy into MAA and run tactician+exploiter you actually boost the damage of skoria higher than a lot of DoT based builds(the ones that usually run skoria) are able to get it. Remember, ele expert only adds 10% or less damage to skoria, I’m able to add much more than that through the class tool kit, the warden has native major breach and minor berserk, which both also increase the damage of skoria. It’s just an added layer of burst that works with all the DoTs and the heal debuffs. IMO, defensive undaunted sets are boring in duels on stam warden and they’re typically overkill against players that aren’t running a defile build.

I could run BS, but I don’t need the ulti gen and quick cloak gives more mitigation than BS. Since it’s not present on non-duel builds, you’ll actually have superior mitigation to an open world setup that uses Bloodspawn, this means you can look to other options. Malu and troll are both bugged and I don’t like to suggest them for duels. What else should I run in your opinion @zparalaxz

I typically would once piece domi and another one piece max stam or stam recovery since I like playing with max stats and then mid high weapon damage that’s 3.7 or higher.

Skoria adds more damage than 2 max stam pieces and it comes in the form of burst that lines up with sub...

Skorias my favorite monster set. Have you tried it open world on dualwield snb warden yet?

zParallaxz

Lexxypwns wrote: »

zParallaxz wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

zParallaxz wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Tonturri wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Tonturri wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I cannot see anyone legitimately thinking Warden is better than mNb or mDK 1v1

Better damage, easier to use abilities, better mitigation, harder hitting abilities, ultimates that actually kill/provide effects.

There's a reason there's like only ever 1 warden in dueling spots

Tbh I think this is more because people haven't bothered investing the time to find a good stam warden dueling setup (or those who have aren't sharing xD). There are some very enticing options with 1h/shield or DW. I wonder what would happen if you added a load of dots/constant defile on top of everything else warden has.

I've found it's just hard to cast aside beloved 2h.

Sounds like it becomes very similar to Stam Sorc, trading hurricane for sub Assault. Added benefit of a spot heal.

Even then, for that kind of combat, how can it compare to mDK? Templar had a strong argument for up close and personal

I made a setup in the eso build editor, but accidentally closed the window before I could save it xD Weh.

It was a DW/1h-shield setup, with 7th legion, bone pirate, and chudan/skele 1 piece on the head/shoulders (31, almost 32k resistances I think). Almost 4k weapon damage, axe bleed, Blood craze bleed + heal, and I think I managed to fit the DW aoe damage reduction thingy in there too. Add all that onto 1h-shield main bar and constant major defile (minor too probably if you run disease enchants somewhere, but I'm shorto n time and couldn't mess with that).

I think it'd compare very well, really. And the above took ~5min. I wouldn't be surprised if Lexy had something scarier.

For SnB DW.
7th+Alch back bar+skoria+masters dw gives ~6k weapon damage and you can run lava foot+netch for all the sustain you need

For Bow SnB(imo the stam warden dueling meta)
Truth+Poisonous serpent+Masters bow+undaunted of choice gives you ~5500 weapon damage and the poisonous serpent proc

Why would u run skoria on a stamwarden?

Because for duels on the SnB+DW setup I’m running trap, quick cloak, rending, axe bleed, and double DoT poisons. This means skoria procs nearly on cooldown. Furthermore, since you stack heavy into MAA and run tactician+exploiter you actually boost the damage of skoria higher than a lot of DoT based builds(the ones that usually run skoria) are able to get it. Remember, ele expert only adds 10% or less damage to skoria, I’m able to add much more than that through the class tool kit, the warden has native major breach and minor berserk, which both also increase the damage of skoria. It’s just an added layer of burst that works with all the DoTs and the heal debuffs. IMO, defensive undaunted sets are boring in duels on stam warden and they’re typically overkill against players that aren’t running a defile build.

I could run BS, but I don’t need the ulti gen and quick cloak gives more mitigation than BS. Since it’s not present on non-duel builds, you’ll actually have superior mitigation to an open world setup that uses Bloodspawn, this means you can look to other options. Malu and troll are both bugged and I don’t like to suggest them for duels. What else should I run in your opinion @zparalaxz

I typically would once piece domi and another one piece max stam or stam recovery since I like playing with max stats and then mid high weapon damage that’s 3.7 or higher.

Skoria adds more damage than 2 max stam pieces and it comes in the form of burst that lines up with sub...

I dont really think that’s comparable, it’s still only adding around 3k damage per proc. On the other hand 2k more max stam affects your healing, damage, and sustain. In the end if I’m hitting people with 4-6k hits and I’m on a full dark elf magdk with min max stats, I don’t see that set hitting past 3-3.5k on any stamwarden.

Lexxypwns

zParallaxz wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

zParallaxz wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

zParallaxz wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Tonturri wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Tonturri wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I cannot see anyone legitimately thinking Warden is better than mNb or mDK 1v1

Better damage, easier to use abilities, better mitigation, harder hitting abilities, ultimates that actually kill/provide effects.

There's a reason there's like only ever 1 warden in dueling spots

Tbh I think this is more because people haven't bothered investing the time to find a good stam warden dueling setup (or those who have aren't sharing xD). There are some very enticing options with 1h/shield or DW. I wonder what would happen if you added a load of dots/constant defile on top of everything else warden has.

I've found it's just hard to cast aside beloved 2h.

Sounds like it becomes very similar to Stam Sorc, trading hurricane for sub Assault. Added benefit of a spot heal.

Even then, for that kind of combat, how can it compare to mDK? Templar had a strong argument for up close and personal

I made a setup in the eso build editor, but accidentally closed the window before I could save it xD Weh.

It was a DW/1h-shield setup, with 7th legion, bone pirate, and chudan/skele 1 piece on the head/shoulders (31, almost 32k resistances I think). Almost 4k weapon damage, axe bleed, Blood craze bleed + heal, and I think I managed to fit the DW aoe damage reduction thingy in there too. Add all that onto 1h-shield main bar and constant major defile (minor too probably if you run disease enchants somewhere, but I'm shorto n time and couldn't mess with that).

I think it'd compare very well, really. And the above took ~5min. I wouldn't be surprised if Lexy had something scarier.

For SnB DW.
7th+Alch back bar+skoria+masters dw gives ~6k weapon damage and you can run lava foot+netch for all the sustain you need

For Bow SnB(imo the stam warden dueling meta)
Truth+Poisonous serpent+Masters bow+undaunted of choice gives you ~5500 weapon damage and the poisonous serpent proc

Why would u run skoria on a stamwarden?

Because for duels on the SnB+DW setup I’m running trap, quick cloak, rending, axe bleed, and double DoT poisons. This means skoria procs nearly on cooldown. Furthermore, since you stack heavy into MAA and run tactician+exploiter you actually boost the damage of skoria higher than a lot of DoT based builds(the ones that usually run skoria) are able to get it. Remember, ele expert only adds 10% or less damage to skoria, I’m able to add much more than that through the class tool kit, the warden has native major breach and minor berserk, which both also increase the damage of skoria. It’s just an added layer of burst that works with all the DoTs and the heal debuffs. IMO, defensive undaunted sets are boring in duels on stam warden and they’re typically overkill against players that aren’t running a defile build.

I could run BS, but I don’t need the ulti gen and quick cloak gives more mitigation than BS. Since it’s not present on non-duel builds, you’ll actually have superior mitigation to an open world setup that uses Bloodspawn, this means you can look to other options. Malu and troll are both bugged and I don’t like to suggest them for duels. What else should I run in your opinion @zparalaxz

I typically would once piece domi and another one piece max stam or stam recovery since I like playing with max stats and then mid high weapon damage that’s 3.7 or higher.

Skoria adds more damage than 2 max stam pieces and it comes in the form of burst that lines up with sub...

I dont really think that’s comparable, it’s still only adding around 3k damage per proc. On the other hand 2k more max stam affects your healing, damage, and sustain. In the end if I’m hitting people with 4-6k hits and I’m on a full dark elf magdk with min max stats, I don’t see that set hitting past 3-3.5k on any stamwarden.

I have ~10% damage less from spell pen, but I’ve got 10% more damage from tactician+exploiter(you eat up your own off balance too often to reliably get that damage on skoria procs, I don’t) you get dark elf and DK fire damage bonuses, I’ve probably got more points into MAA. That leaves just ele expert as a difference in damage. 10% of 3k is only 300 damage difference.

Unlike other stam classes, stam warden has very reliable major mending and a native burst heal as well as passives that heal when using your damage and sustain abilities. Furthermore, these builds run ~2k more weapon damage than you’re talking about running. When you’re stacking 36k stam and 5.2k weapon damage, 3500 stam isn’t going to make or break your healing(I get Forward momentum crits for 2.5k, not mentioning vigor or spores) and skoria is reliably more burst, it’s undodgeable, and it’s a poison pill, because if you block it then you will struggle to kite the sub-combo, which is unblockable damage anyway.

Waffennacht

Listen to @Lexxypwns he is one of the best players that shares info. @zParallaxz just doesn't share lol

Raudgrani

Only because of one single ability, which is about the one and only ability wardens use as offense: Bird Spamming. That has got to go, it's just stupid.

Thogard

Raudgrani wrote: »

Only because of one single ability, which is about the one and only ability wardens use as offense: Bird Spamming. That has got to go, it's just stupid.

bro i know a ton of wardens that dont even have birds on bar. myself included.

Shalks is so much better than birds in every way. (shalks also undodgeable btw)

BaylorCorvette

Stam Warden for sure. Fantastic burst and probably the best Stam Healing in the game, aside from maybe StamSorc but the Stam Warden has better on demand burst heals IMO.