Both Stam and magicka wardens are op

Thogard

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Wardens aren’t even one of the top played classes, (barely anyone plays mag warden) maybe the stam version is just now starting to get up there for small scale. Even though not too long ago everyone was saying Wardens are trash, but now that players like Kodi and some bg players showed how viable the class is everyone wants to say it’s op and make it fotm.

Just because a class is performing well or better doesn’t make it OP, please stop the trend of saying everything is OP until they get nerfed. You guys did it with sorcs (remember when stam sorcs were op too?), magplar, dks, skills etc. Now my favorite class which is Templar doesn’t play the same and is missing the identity it once had. Ironically that also happened when everyone caught on to them being viable, remember when you had to find the same 10 Templars just to complete the bounty.

Yeah but wardens are OP. There

Waffennacht wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Azurya wrote: »

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

Well yes..its another nerf sor..i mean whoa..wait what? Okay well let's get to the basics, wardens have some skills that literally do three things as once..They are extremely versatile, you can be bad and still be great at warden. How about you nerf them in the pvp aspect and start buffing them in pve? That way you can stop the.."Oh they suck in pve so they have to be good somewhere like pvp.." Yes well not God's who can't die thank you very much.

you are a pain in the .....
just trying to get a nerf for all that bothers you, L2P
for example sorc are running around with herds of pets, nobody cares
NB can sneak, few like you care

ppl like you we have to thank for all those balancing, nerfing and whatelse is wrecking this game!

IT IS NORMAL TO DIE IN PVP, GET IT IN YOUR BRAIN!!!

You should never tell someone to L2P when you run in a 50+ zerg and do nothing else than spamming birds and Soulassault but still die to one burst attempt of a stamplar.

Warden is OP.
You can ignore all ranged builds while getting the best ult regen in the game with a skill that costs you almost nothing, a ranged spammable that deals more damage than Suprise attack while being undodgeable.
Just for slotting your sustain Tool, your nuke and your spammable you get free 6% damage dealt.
Then you get a cheap way of 10 seconds of major expedition + minor beserk.
Your AoE nuke ignores LoS, z-axis and block while applying major fracture
You get the best stam based heal in the game which applies even more buffs and can give you major mending.

Waffennacht wrote: »

Destyran wrote: »

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

OP is a strong word.

Stamina Warden feels a little overtuned, but 7th Legion in general feels a little overtuned...

I haven't found a solo magicka warden that felt really, really dangerous in the way that stam wardens do. Frequent stalemates, though.

The strangest thing, IMO, is that even potato wardens take longer than they should to kill. I haven't put my finger on which passives/skills are directly responsible for that.

Ever been in bgs with 3 spamming birds and all their subterranean assaults go off??

Did you ever see the red mountain viper velidreth combo a few patches ago? It was the equivalent of a old magblade bomb build with proxy

Nope, but have had 2/3 leaps at our group killing everything

A blockable ult with a smaller damage area that can't be used every 3 seconds vs a aoe nuke that ignores block and can be mixed with another skill
I can't decide what i should choose

What's unblockable? Cuz it's not n storm/Permafrost, because they are.

Edit: oh you're comparing leap to Sub Assault. Well I would then compare whips to Permafrost and raise you Talons

well you were the first one to mention that your Group wiped to '2-3' leaps as an answer to someone talking about shalks.

He asked if anyone had fought 3 wardens spamming birds and sub assault. Which I have not. I have had Leaps do that, if I played in organized or pre-mades I may not have seen either.

It wasn't a comparison, but now that you mention it. I haven't seen a single Stam warden win without LoS. At which point, whomever is facing the warden can just choose to disengage.

While I have seen many DKs face tank several players and then drop much more devastating ults.

While Sub Assault is good, it's damage doesn't compare to a well built build using an ult.

I have Never had sub Assault or fissure deal 11k through 4k impen

Bro you’re a nice guy and all but you are way off base here. Stam DK and stamden are not even in the same league.

And yes I’ve fought a four warden premade. I also have a vid up somewhere here from when I was in a 3 warden man. Wardens stacking is much much stronger than DKs stacking.

Is leap good? Yes. But it doesn’t come close to the stampede + sub assault + DBoS combo. DKs just can’t stack burst damage like wardens and magsorcs can

I will agree with you that birds are not OP. Shalks are the problem. I don’t even run birds on my stamden, and if I wanted range I’d use my masters bow and poison injection

Joy_Division

I hate threads like this.

I don't think magicka Wardens are anything special. They are hard to kill and being Xv1ed by them is annoying because of a dumb skill.

It is probably true that Stam Warden is probably the strongest class out there. So the answer you all have on these forums is to nerf them to such as state that their nothing but a buff class to weapon skills since you all hate shalks, birds, and shimmering shield so much.

That's why the game is so bland compared to what it once was. Every time people come across something that is strong, they scream nerf. If I could have what a templar could do before 1.6, I would not fear stam Wardens. Not saying I'd win, but I'd have the confidence that I'd have the tools at my disposal that if I played well, then I'd stand a good shot. But that's just a dream because you all got ZoS to nerf Eclipse, Breath of Life, Purifying ritual, Radiant Destruction, Repentance, Puncturing Sweeps, gut my Restoring Light passive, got them to remove my Focused Healing passive, my Major Mending buff, and the Blinding Flashes skill. Maybe if you all didn't scream for ZoS to similarly gut your DKs, your sorcs, and your NBs, you wouldn't find Wardens so scary.

The only thing I have a problem with Wardens is the shimmering shield spell is way too efficient compared to what the overnerfed soulless classes that we non-Wardens have in out toolkits.

Lexxypwns

@Waffennacht I tank-n-spank on my stamden

Waffennacht

I forgot that 1 pulse can take out all 3 slabs.

@Lexxypwns that's just cuz you're good

BohnT

Waffennacht wrote: »

I forgot that 1 pulse can take out all 3 slabs.

@Lexxypwns that's just cuz you're good

You don't have to be especially good to dominate on a stamwarden, I know lexxy is a very good player but stamwarden is still stronger than anything else when played by mediocre players.
It's easy too see that a class is overperfoming if every good player on PC EU rerolls one over their main class.

I mean you have a build that dishes out +8k birds, a ranged undodgeable/ unreflectable high damage low cost spammable that gives you ult and 2% more damage dealt while being delayed to hit in the next gcd.

Shalks are class defining but they need readjustment. They need to be LoS- able, need their z-axis fixed and they need a range decrease.

Shimmering shield is the most overperfoming skill in the game. You can counter ranged builds entirely while gaining major heroism and spending almost no resources.
Major Heroism shouldn't be available to anyone with an easy 100% uptime.
Absorbs need their max absorbable damage cap reduced.
Major Mending is another critical point of wardens. Templar has no access to it anymore unless you use resto. Warden gets it in his main heal and the "You won't kill me unless i go afk" Ult.

Joy_Division wrote: »

I hate threads like this.

I don't think magicka Wardens are anything special. They are hard to kill and being Xv1ed by them is annoying because of a dumb skill.

It is probably true that Stam Warden is probably the strongest class out there. So the answer you all have on these forums is to nerf them to such as state that their nothing but a buff class to weapon skills since you all hate shalks, birds, and shimmering shield so much.

That's why the game is so bland compared to what it once was. Every time people come across something that is strong, they scream nerf. If I could have what a templar could do before 1.6, I would not fear stam Wardens. Not saying I'd win, but I'd have the confidence that I'd have the tools at my disposal that if I played well, then I'd stand a good shot. But that's just a dream because you all got ZoS to nerf Eclipse, Breath of Life, Purifying ritual, Radiant Destruction, Repentance, Puncturing Sweeps, gut my Restoring Light passive, got them to remove my Focused Healing passive, my Major Mending buff, and the Blinding Flashes skill. Maybe if you all didn't scream for ZoS to similarly gut your DKs, your sorcs, and your NBs, you wouldn't find Wardens so scary.

The only thing I have a problem with Wardens is the shimmering shield spell is way too efficient compared to what the overnerfed soulless classes that we non-Wardens have in out toolkits.

Joy back in pre 1.6 when there were no stamclasses, magdk ruling the battlefield.
Things were completely overperfoming back then. 100% wings reflect, eclipse reflecting ults, jabs stunning without granting CC immunity.

There are 2-3 classes which lost their identity.
Stamdk and Stamsorc feel the same. They are reduced to weapon skills which makes it really boring to switch from one to the other.
I know you hate how they nerfed your magplar but magplar needed to be brought in line.

Those 3 classes need buffs and changes to their loadout #spammableforstamdkandstamsorc.
Magplar has it's unique playstyle and once they fix the bugs with jabs etc they are viable again.

I play all classes atm and the playstyle of them varies so much.
With the introduction of op weapon ults many class defining ults got obsolete. Why would a templar use it's ults when they are as Bad as they are now when they have better options else where. Same with 1h&s ult and Corrosive armor.

In the end i have to disagree with your Statement that all classes are soulless shells.

Zbigb4life

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

Everyone complains on the forums that magplar and DK have been over-nerfed because of overzealous forum QQ, and we all beg ZOS to restore magplar and DK to some of their former glory. But then we turn around and cry about wardens in exactly the same way we used to cry about magplars and DKs. What wardens need is a tweak, not a major, across-the-board nerf like magplars and DKs have received.

The key to balancing wardens without over-nerfing them, IMO, is Shimmering Shield. This skill needs the Wings treatment: it needs to become slightly less useful and significantly more expensive. Its magicka return needs to be removed and its cost needs to be the same as or greater than DKs' Wings. As is, this skill is simply too powerful for its functional cost: it gives the warden Major Heroism and virtual immunity to ranged builds for barely over 1000 magicka, meaning even stamina Wardens have virtually no opportunity cost for casting it.

I predict that if Shimmering Shield became significantly more costly, so that a pressured warden (and especially a pressured stamina warden) would have to seriously consider whether casting it was worth the cost, TTK on wardens would noticeably decrease, without impairing wardens to the extent that magplars and DKs have been impaired by over-nerfing.

Look, Im totally fine with warden being strong.
Im not fine with warden totally replacing and outperforming Dk for over 6 months zos doing absolutely nothing about it.
Its not ''fine''.
I'm watching my own videos playing from a year ago and Its like Im watching a different game, playing a different class.

at the moment Im just waiting for that so much hyped ''balance update''. to see if they would actually adjust Dk after doing block changes, If they don't I'm done with this game and any other future title zenimax releases.

100% agree, but that's a buff DK issue, not a nerf warden issue.

Well they clearly rejected to buff stop nerfing dk for almost a damn year now, so what am I to do but complain about the existance of wardens? Devs didn't gave me any hope, What do you expect me to do?

Hope is the light in the dark

Thogard

Waffennacht wrote: »

I forgot that 1 pulse can take out all 3 slabs.

@Lexxypwns that's just cuz you're good

No it can't. It's actually bugged. One force pulse takes out 0 slabs.

raasdal

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

You guys complain until everything is nerfed then complain about the nerfs and wonder why the game is becoming more homogenized. The game hasn’t seen actual OPness since the old vamp dks and 1.6 sorcs.

Warden is a solid class and it’s that solidness that’s skewing your perspective because the other classes are more of the same, lacking identity.

Agree. "OP" has been watered out. I was not there for the Vamp DK's, but i was there for the 1.6 Sorcs with Shieldstacking and infinite Streak. THAT was OP.

Joy_Division

BohnT wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

I hate threads like this.

I don't think magicka Wardens are anything special. They are hard to kill and being Xv1ed by them is annoying because of a dumb skill.

It is probably true that Stam Warden is probably the strongest class out there. So the answer you all have on these forums is to nerf them to such as state that their nothing but a buff class to weapon skills since you all hate shalks, birds, and shimmering shield so much.

That's why the game is so bland compared to what it once was. Every time people come across something that is strong, they scream nerf. If I could have what a templar could do before 1.6, I would not fear stam Wardens. Not saying I'd win, but I'd have the confidence that I'd have the tools at my disposal that if I played well, then I'd stand a good shot. But that's just a dream because you all got ZoS to nerf Eclipse, Breath of Life, Purifying ritual, Radiant Destruction, Repentance, Puncturing Sweeps, gut my Restoring Light passive, got them to remove my Focused Healing passive, my Major Mending buff, and the Blinding Flashes skill. Maybe if you all didn't scream for ZoS to similarly gut your DKs, your sorcs, and your NBs, you wouldn't find Wardens so scary.

The only thing I have a problem with Wardens is the shimmering shield spell is way too efficient compared to what the overnerfed soulless classes that we non-Wardens have in out toolkits.

Joy back in pre 1.6 when there were no stamclasses, magdk ruling the battlefield.
Things were completely overperfoming back then. 100% wings reflect, eclipse reflecting ults, jabs stunning without granting CC immunity.

There are 2-3 classes which lost their identity.
Stamdk and Stamsorc feel the same. They are reduced to weapon skills which makes it really boring to switch from one to the other.
I know you hate how they nerfed your magplar but magplar needed to be brought in line.

Those 3 classes need buffs and changes to their loadout #spammableforstamdkandstamsorc.
Magplar has it's unique playstyle and once they fix the bugs with jabs etc they are viable again.

I play all classes atm and the playstyle of them varies so much.
With the introduction of op weapon ults many class defining ults got obsolete. Why would a templar use it's ults when they are as Bad as they are now when they have better options else where. Same with 1h&s ult and Corrosive armor.

In the end i have to disagree with your Statement that all classes are soulless shells.

LoL. Did you even play before 1.6? Magplars had no DPS. You are the only person to think they "needed to be brought back in line."

BohnT

Joy_Division wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

I hate threads like this.

I don't think magicka Wardens are anything special. They are hard to kill and being Xv1ed by them is annoying because of a dumb skill.

It is probably true that Stam Warden is probably the strongest class out there. So the answer you all have on these forums is to nerf them to such as state that their nothing but a buff class to weapon skills since you all hate shalks, birds, and shimmering shield so much.

That's why the game is so bland compared to what it once was. Every time people come across something that is strong, they scream nerf. If I could have what a templar could do before 1.6, I would not fear stam Wardens. Not saying I'd win, but I'd have the confidence that I'd have the tools at my disposal that if I played well, then I'd stand a good shot. But that's just a dream because you all got ZoS to nerf Eclipse, Breath of Life, Purifying ritual, Radiant Destruction, Repentance, Puncturing Sweeps, gut my Restoring Light passive, got them to remove my Focused Healing passive, my Major Mending buff, and the Blinding Flashes skill. Maybe if you all didn't scream for ZoS to similarly gut your DKs, your sorcs, and your NBs, you wouldn't find Wardens so scary.

The only thing I have a problem with Wardens is the shimmering shield spell is way too efficient compared to what the overnerfed soulless classes that we non-Wardens have in out toolkits.

Joy back in pre 1.6 when there were no stamclasses, magdk ruling the battlefield.
Things were completely overperfoming back then. 100% wings reflect, eclipse reflecting ults, jabs stunning without granting CC immunity.

There are 2-3 classes which lost their identity.
Stamdk and Stamsorc feel the same. They are reduced to weapon skills which makes it really boring to switch from one to the other.
I know you hate how they nerfed your magplar but magplar needed to be brought in line.

Those 3 classes need buffs and changes to their loadout #spammableforstamdkandstamsorc.
Magplar has it's unique playstyle and once they fix the bugs with jabs etc they are viable again.

I play all classes atm and the playstyle of them varies so much.
With the introduction of op weapon ults many class defining ults got obsolete. Why would a templar use it's ults when they are as Bad as they are now when they have better options else where. Same with 1h&s ult and Corrosive armor.

In the end i have to disagree with your Statement that all classes are soulless shells.

LoL. Did you even play before 1.6? Magplars had no DPS. You are the only person to think they "needed to be brought back in line."

i've been playing since closed beta so yes and Magplar was great then. They needed nerfs not all of the ones they got but Jabs CC removal, blinding flashes removal, eclipse and BoL nerf were needed.
What wasn't needed was: Major mending removal, complete repentance stam return nerf, shard nerf, cost increase of purge.

Defilted

Wardens are not OP. I kill Wardens all the time.

I am sure there are some very good PVP players that can make any class seem OP. I am not one of them. It is a fun class to play. They are very fast on the battle field. Having the ability to force ranged players change their strat mid fight because you are eating most of their ranged attacks is great, but there are ranged abilities that warden shield does not block I get hit by them all the time. Melee opponents are far more dangerous and I get killed by them more often.

Takes-No-Prisoner

Lexxypwns wrote: »

@Waffennacht I tank-n-spank on my stamden

I found Lexxy's weapon(s) of choice through simple google search;



DW paddles!!!!!!!!!!

Joy_Division wrote: »

I hate threads like this.

I don't think magicka Wardens are anything special. They are hard to kill and being Xv1ed by them is annoying because of a dumb skill.

It is probably true that Stam Warden is probably the strongest class out there. So the answer you all have on these forums is to nerf them to such as state that their nothing but a buff class to weapon skills since you all hate shalks, birds, and shimmering shield so much.

That's why the game is so bland compared to what it once was. Every time people come across something that is strong, they scream nerf. If I could have what a templar could do before 1.6, I would not fear stam Wardens. Not saying I'd win, but I'd have the confidence that I'd have the tools at my disposal that if I played well, then I'd stand a good shot. But that's just a dream because you all got ZoS to nerf Eclipse, Breath of Life, Purifying ritual, Radiant Destruction, Repentance, Puncturing Sweeps, gut my Restoring Light passive, got them to remove my Focused Healing passive, my Major Mending buff, and the Blinding Flashes skill. Maybe if you all didn't scream for ZoS to similarly gut your DKs, your sorcs, and your NBs, you wouldn't find Wardens so scary.

The only thing I have a problem with Wardens is the shimmering shield spell is way too efficient compared to what the overnerfed soulless classes that we non-Wardens have in out toolkits.

Yeah I agree, that's why I focused in on Shimmering on my original post earlier in the thread. As someone who has played all the classes, it was very easy to see how Shimmering locks down ranged builds. It needs more counter play for sure. But it needs to not be toned down enough where, like you said in reference to MagPlar, we don't see it used any more. It needs to be good after it's been toned down, right now it is waaay too good.

Lexxypwns

@Waffennacht I’ve been playing a lot of magplar and mDK lately and I go from good to godly when I swap to my warden from any of these

leepalmer95

People keep getting side tracked on this thread.

It's not how well YOU do or how well some good players do on certain classes.

The point is comparing warden currently to other classes.

Top burst - Warden, birds/ shalk combined with literally anything.

Top Healing - Warden/ magplar , warden has major mending, class heals, heal ults etc... lots of healing.

Maybe top Sustain - Warden - 12% regen, 250 magicka/ stamina a second thanks to passives. If not the top sustain its pretty close.

Top tankyiness - Shimmering negates ranged builds completely, low cost, gives magicka back so it costs around 800 or something if you get the full return, MAJOR heroism which is a very strong effect. It also works against attacks that can't be reflected such as force pulse and birds. Armour buff also gives major protection ...

I usually just run away and ignore wardens on my mag sorc now as there is nothing i can actually do apart from wait for a meteor and hope the warden is stupid enough to not put up shimmering in 5s it takes for me to set up maximum burst, also hope the burst crits enough to instant kill them...

Waffennacht

leepalmer95 wrote: »

People keep getting side tracked on this thread.

It's not how well YOU do or how well some good players do on certain classes.

The point is comparing warden currently to other classes.

Top burst - Warden, birds/ shalk combined with literally anything.

Top Healing - Warden/ magplar , warden has major mending, class heals, heal ults etc... lots of healing.

Maybe top Sustain - Warden - 12% regen, 250 magicka/ stamina a second thanks to passives. If not the top sustain its pretty close.

Top tankyiness - Shimmering negates ranged builds completely, low cost, gives magicka back so it costs around 800 or something if you get the full return, MAJOR heroism which is a very strong effect. It also works against attacks that can't be reflected such as force pulse and birds. Armour buff also gives major protection ...

I usually just run away and ignore wardens on my mag sorc now as there is nothing i can actually do apart from wait for a meteor and hope the warden is stupid enough to not put up shimmering in 5s it takes for me to set up maximum burst, also hope the burst crits enough to instant kill them...

I just pulse the slabs.

Wardens are overrated. They can LoS like no other, but you really shouldn't die to one

leepalmer95

Waffennacht wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

People keep getting side tracked on this thread.

It's not how well YOU do or how well some good players do on certain classes.

The point is comparing warden currently to other classes.

Top burst - Warden, birds/ shalk combined with literally anything.

Top Healing - Warden/ magplar , warden has major mending, class heals, heal ults etc... lots of healing.

Maybe top Sustain - Warden - 12% regen, 250 magicka/ stamina a second thanks to passives. If not the top sustain its pretty close.

Top tankyiness - Shimmering negates ranged builds completely, low cost, gives magicka back so it costs around 800 or something if you get the full return, MAJOR heroism which is a very strong effect. It also works against attacks that can't be reflected such as force pulse and birds. Armour buff also gives major protection ...

I usually just run away and ignore wardens on my mag sorc now as there is nothing i can actually do apart from wait for a meteor and hope the warden is stupid enough to not put up shimmering in 5s it takes for me to set up maximum burst, also hope the burst crits enough to instant kill them...

I just pulse the slabs.

Wardens are overrated. They can LoS like no other, but you really shouldn't die to one

Why should you die to one? They can pull out instant 26k-30k tooltip dmg with just a sub assault + dawnbreaker not including if they hit a dizzying or just do a heavy attack for the extra 10% boost.

ak_pvp

Waffennacht wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

People keep getting side tracked on this thread.

It's not how well YOU do or how well some good players do on certain classes.

The point is comparing warden currently to other classes.

Top burst - Warden, birds/ shalk combined with literally anything.

Top Healing - Warden/ magplar , warden has major mending, class heals, heal ults etc... lots of healing.

Maybe top Sustain - Warden - 12% regen, 250 magicka/ stamina a second thanks to passives. If not the top sustain its pretty close.

Top tankyiness - Shimmering negates ranged builds completely, low cost, gives magicka back so it costs around 800 or something if you get the full return, MAJOR heroism which is a very strong effect. It also works against attacks that can't be reflected such as force pulse and birds. Armour buff also gives major protection ...

I usually just run away and ignore wardens on my mag sorc now as there is nothing i can actually do apart from wait for a meteor and hope the warden is stupid enough to not put up shimmering in 5s it takes for me to set up maximum burst, also hope the burst crits enough to instant kill them...

I just pulse the slabs.

Wardens are overrated. They can LoS like no other, but you really shouldn't die to one

Ehhhhhhhhh

Whilst they may not be omg god mode they are very very strong, well, only the stamina version. Undodgeable birds, unblockable and conventionally undodgeable sub, which puts a debuff and hits like an AoE ult. They are quite deadly options but not completely broken. But that damage combined with a dawnbreaker and a dizzy swing is easily one of the strongest damage combos, and unlike other classes its got great mobility, group support, and general healing/survivability.

Waffennacht

ak_pvp wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

People keep getting side tracked on this thread.

It's not how well YOU do or how well some good players do on certain classes.

The point is comparing warden currently to other classes.

Top burst - Warden, birds/ shalk combined with literally anything.

Top Healing - Warden/ magplar , warden has major mending, class heals, heal ults etc... lots of healing.

Maybe top Sustain - Warden - 12% regen, 250 magicka/ stamina a second thanks to passives. If not the top sustain its pretty close.

Top tankyiness - Shimmering negates ranged builds completely, low cost, gives magicka back so it costs around 800 or something if you get the full return, MAJOR heroism which is a very strong effect. It also works against attacks that can't be reflected such as force pulse and birds. Armour buff also gives major protection ...

I usually just run away and ignore wardens on my mag sorc now as there is nothing i can actually do apart from wait for a meteor and hope the warden is stupid enough to not put up shimmering in 5s it takes for me to set up maximum burst, also hope the burst crits enough to instant kill them...

I just pulse the slabs.

Wardens are overrated. They can LoS like no other, but you really shouldn't die to one

Ehhhhhhhhh

Whilst they may not be omg god mode they are very very strong, well, only the stamina version. Undodgeable birds, unblockable and conventionally undodgeable sub, which puts a debuff and hits like an AoE ult. They are quite deadly options but not completely broken. But that damage combined with a dawnbreaker and a dizzy swing is easily one of the strongest damage combos, and unlike other classes its got great mobility, group support, and general healing/survivability.

They are very strong, but so is each class. I'm not saying they're sub par, it's just that in Open World their ability to keep opponents from escaping is huge. Meaning engagements should be on your terms

BohnT

Waffennacht wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

People keep getting side tracked on this thread.

It's not how well YOU do or how well some good players do on certain classes.

The point is comparing warden currently to other classes.

Top burst - Warden, birds/ shalk combined with literally anything.

Top Healing - Warden/ magplar , warden has major mending, class heals, heal ults etc... lots of healing.

Maybe top Sustain - Warden - 12% regen, 250 magicka/ stamina a second thanks to passives. If not the top sustain its pretty close.

Top tankyiness - Shimmering negates ranged builds completely, low cost, gives magicka back so it costs around 800 or something if you get the full return, MAJOR heroism which is a very strong effect. It also works against attacks that can't be reflected such as force pulse and birds. Armour buff also gives major protection ...

I usually just run away and ignore wardens on my mag sorc now as there is nothing i can actually do apart from wait for a meteor and hope the warden is stupid enough to not put up shimmering in 5s it takes for me to set up maximum burst, also hope the burst crits enough to instant kill them...

I just pulse the slabs.

Wardens are overrated. They can LoS like no other, but you really shouldn't die to one

Ehhhhhhhhh

Whilst they may not be omg god mode they are very very strong, well, only the stamina version. Undodgeable birds, unblockable and conventionally undodgeable sub, which puts a debuff and hits like an AoE ult. They are quite deadly options but not completely broken. But that damage combined with a dawnbreaker and a dizzy swing is easily one of the strongest damage combos, and unlike other classes its got great mobility, group support, and general healing/survivability.

They are very strong, but so is each class. I'm not saying they're sub par, it's just that in Open World their ability to keep opponents from escaping is huge. Meaning engagements should be on your terms

No class is as strong as warden except for magsorc or stamnb they simply aren't

leepalmer95

BohnT wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

People keep getting side tracked on this thread.

It's not how well YOU do or how well some good players do on certain classes.

The point is comparing warden currently to other classes.

Top burst - Warden, birds/ shalk combined with literally anything.

Top Healing - Warden/ magplar , warden has major mending, class heals, heal ults etc... lots of healing.

Maybe top Sustain - Warden - 12% regen, 250 magicka/ stamina a second thanks to passives. If not the top sustain its pretty close.

Top tankyiness - Shimmering negates ranged builds completely, low cost, gives magicka back so it costs around 800 or something if you get the full return, MAJOR heroism which is a very strong effect. It also works against attacks that can't be reflected such as force pulse and birds. Armour buff also gives major protection ...

I usually just run away and ignore wardens on my mag sorc now as there is nothing i can actually do apart from wait for a meteor and hope the warden is stupid enough to not put up shimmering in 5s it takes for me to set up maximum burst, also hope the burst crits enough to instant kill them...

I just pulse the slabs.

Wardens are overrated. They can LoS like no other, but you really shouldn't die to one

Ehhhhhhhhh

Whilst they may not be omg god mode they are very very strong, well, only the stamina version. Undodgeable birds, unblockable and conventionally undodgeable sub, which puts a debuff and hits like an AoE ult. They are quite deadly options but not completely broken. But that damage combined with a dawnbreaker and a dizzy swing is easily one of the strongest damage combos, and unlike other classes its got great mobility, group support, and general healing/survivability.

They are very strong, but so is each class. I'm not saying they're sub par, it's just that in Open World their ability to keep opponents from escaping is huge. Meaning engagements should be on your terms

No class is as strong as warden except for magsorc or stamnb they simply aren't

Mag sorc and stam nb aren't strong..


Mag sorcs shields get melted nowdays if you fight 2 ok players.

Stam nb has nice burst but in return is very squishy.

Waffennacht

BohnT wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

People keep getting side tracked on this thread.

It's not how well YOU do or how well some good players do on certain classes.

The point is comparing warden currently to other classes.

Top burst - Warden, birds/ shalk combined with literally anything.

Top Healing - Warden/ magplar , warden has major mending, class heals, heal ults etc... lots of healing.

Maybe top Sustain - Warden - 12% regen, 250 magicka/ stamina a second thanks to passives. If not the top sustain its pretty close.

Top tankyiness - Shimmering negates ranged builds completely, low cost, gives magicka back so it costs around 800 or something if you get the full return, MAJOR heroism which is a very strong effect. It also works against attacks that can't be reflected such as force pulse and birds. Armour buff also gives major protection ...

I usually just run away and ignore wardens on my mag sorc now as there is nothing i can actually do apart from wait for a meteor and hope the warden is stupid enough to not put up shimmering in 5s it takes for me to set up maximum burst, also hope the burst crits enough to instant kill them...

I just pulse the slabs.

Wardens are overrated. They can LoS like no other, but you really shouldn't die to one

Ehhhhhhhhh

Whilst they may not be omg god mode they are very very strong, well, only the stamina version. Undodgeable birds, unblockable and conventionally undodgeable sub, which puts a debuff and hits like an AoE ult. They are quite deadly options but not completely broken. But that damage combined with a dawnbreaker and a dizzy swing is easily one of the strongest damage combos, and unlike other classes its got great mobility, group support, and general healing/survivability.

They are very strong, but so is each class. I'm not saying they're sub par, it's just that in Open World their ability to keep opponents from escaping is huge. Meaning engagements should be on your terms

No class is as strong as warden except for magsorc or stamnb they simply aren't

In what field?

In 1v1 duels, mag DK or mag NB has equivalent potential burst (if not better) and better kiting/tanking abilities

In BGs mSorc has just the very best tools to win each game mode - high mobility for flags/relics and an execute to skyrocket scores in Death match

In large scale groups builds are more tailored to the group and each class has something to contribute.

In 1vX scenarios, I have seen DKs, Wardens, Templars, essentially any class with 2h and a tree perform admirably

BohnT

leepalmer95 wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

People keep getting side tracked on this thread.

It's not how well YOU do or how well some good players do on certain classes.

The point is comparing warden currently to other classes.

Top burst - Warden, birds/ shalk combined with literally anything.

Top Healing - Warden/ magplar , warden has major mending, class heals, heal ults etc... lots of healing.

Maybe top Sustain - Warden - 12% regen, 250 magicka/ stamina a second thanks to passives. If not the top sustain its pretty close.

Top tankyiness - Shimmering negates ranged builds completely, low cost, gives magicka back so it costs around 800 or something if you get the full return, MAJOR heroism which is a very strong effect. It also works against attacks that can't be reflected such as force pulse and birds. Armour buff also gives major protection ...

I usually just run away and ignore wardens on my mag sorc now as there is nothing i can actually do apart from wait for a meteor and hope the warden is stupid enough to not put up shimmering in 5s it takes for me to set up maximum burst, also hope the burst crits enough to instant kill them...

I just pulse the slabs.

Wardens are overrated. They can LoS like no other, but you really shouldn't die to one

Ehhhhhhhhh

Whilst they may not be omg god mode they are very very strong, well, only the stamina version. Undodgeable birds, unblockable and conventionally undodgeable sub, which puts a debuff and hits like an AoE ult. They are quite deadly options but not completely broken. But that damage combined with a dawnbreaker and a dizzy swing is easily one of the strongest damage combos, and unlike other classes its got great mobility, group support, and general healing/survivability.

They are very strong, but so is each class. I'm not saying they're sub par, it's just that in Open World their ability to keep opponents from escaping is huge. Meaning engagements should be on your terms

No class is as strong as warden except for magsorc or stamnb they simply aren't

Mag sorc and stam nb aren't strong..


Mag sorcs shields get melted nowdays if you fight 2 ok players.

Stam nb has nice burst but in return is very squishy.

Stamnb is really, really strong, they aren't squishy at all when played right and as you said the burst is really strong. With cloak and shade you can disengage at will and then retry to kill your enemy with one burst rota.

Magsorcs are still really strong. Rune Cage+meteor+curse&frags is enough to kill 90% of cyro with no counterplay. and if you die too fast, streak will save you almost everytime

IcyDeadPeople

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

Well yes..its another nerf sor..i mean whoa..wait what? Okay well let's get to the basics, wardens have some skills that literally do three things as once..They are extremely versatile, you can be bad and still be great at warden. How about you nerf them in the pvp aspect and start buffing them in pve? That way you can stop the.."Oh they suck in pve so they have to be good somewhere like pvp.." Yes well not God's who can't die thank you very much.

Mainly I would suggest increase cost of the healing ultimate a bit more, perhaps also slight nerf to the shimmering shield

Waffennacht

BohnT wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

People keep getting side tracked on this thread.

It's not how well YOU do or how well some good players do on certain classes.

The point is comparing warden currently to other classes.

Top burst - Warden, birds/ shalk combined with literally anything.

Top Healing - Warden/ magplar , warden has major mending, class heals, heal ults etc... lots of healing.

Maybe top Sustain - Warden - 12% regen, 250 magicka/ stamina a second thanks to passives. If not the top sustain its pretty close.

Top tankyiness - Shimmering negates ranged builds completely, low cost, gives magicka back so it costs around 800 or something if you get the full return, MAJOR heroism which is a very strong effect. It also works against attacks that can't be reflected such as force pulse and birds. Armour buff also gives major protection ...

I usually just run away and ignore wardens on my mag sorc now as there is nothing i can actually do apart from wait for a meteor and hope the warden is stupid enough to not put up shimmering in 5s it takes for me to set up maximum burst, also hope the burst crits enough to instant kill them...

I just pulse the slabs.

Wardens are overrated. They can LoS like no other, but you really shouldn't die to one

Ehhhhhhhhh

Whilst they may not be omg god mode they are very very strong, well, only the stamina version. Undodgeable birds, unblockable and conventionally undodgeable sub, which puts a debuff and hits like an AoE ult. They are quite deadly options but not completely broken. But that damage combined with a dawnbreaker and a dizzy swing is easily one of the strongest damage combos, and unlike other classes its got great mobility, group support, and general healing/survivability.

They are very strong, but so is each class. I'm not saying they're sub par, it's just that in Open World their ability to keep opponents from escaping is huge. Meaning engagements should be on your terms

No class is as strong as warden except for magsorc or stamnb they simply aren't

Mag sorc and stam nb aren't strong..


Mag sorcs shields get melted nowdays if you fight 2 ok players.

Stam nb has nice burst but in return is very squishy.

Stamnb is really, really strong, they aren't squishy at all when played right and as you said the burst is really strong. With cloak and shade you can disengage at will and then retry to kill your enemy with one burst rota.

Magsorcs are still really strong. Rune Cage+meteor+curse&frags is enough to kill 90% of cyro with no counterplay. and if you die too fast, streak will save you almost everytime

But we need only to concern our selves with the 10%-1%, potato mashing isn't really relevant to any discussion lol

BohnT

Waffennacht wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

People keep getting side tracked on this thread.

It's not how well YOU do or how well some good players do on certain classes.

The point is comparing warden currently to other classes.

Top burst - Warden, birds/ shalk combined with literally anything.

Top Healing - Warden/ magplar , warden has major mending, class heals, heal ults etc... lots of healing.

Maybe top Sustain - Warden - 12% regen, 250 magicka/ stamina a second thanks to passives. If not the top sustain its pretty close.

Top tankyiness - Shimmering negates ranged builds completely, low cost, gives magicka back so it costs around 800 or something if you get the full return, MAJOR heroism which is a very strong effect. It also works against attacks that can't be reflected such as force pulse and birds. Armour buff also gives major protection ...

I usually just run away and ignore wardens on my mag sorc now as there is nothing i can actually do apart from wait for a meteor and hope the warden is stupid enough to not put up shimmering in 5s it takes for me to set up maximum burst, also hope the burst crits enough to instant kill them...

I just pulse the slabs.

Wardens are overrated. They can LoS like no other, but you really shouldn't die to one

Ehhhhhhhhh

Whilst they may not be omg god mode they are very very strong, well, only the stamina version. Undodgeable birds, unblockable and conventionally undodgeable sub, which puts a debuff and hits like an AoE ult. They are quite deadly options but not completely broken. But that damage combined with a dawnbreaker and a dizzy swing is easily one of the strongest damage combos, and unlike other classes its got great mobility, group support, and general healing/survivability.

They are very strong, but so is each class. I'm not saying they're sub par, it's just that in Open World their ability to keep opponents from escaping is huge. Meaning engagements should be on your terms

No class is as strong as warden except for magsorc or stamnb they simply aren't

In what field?

In 1v1 duels, mag DK or mag NB has equivalent potential burst (if not better) and better kiting/tanking abilities

In BGs mSorc has just the very best tools to win each game mode - high mobility for flags/relics and an execute to skyrocket scores in Death match

In large scale groups builds are more tailored to the group and each class has something to contribute.

In 1vX scenarios, I have seen DKs, Wardens, Templars, essentially any class with 2h and a tree perform admirably

in duels a stamwarden won't die if he doesn't want to. You can Play as offensive as you want but if you can kill a stamwarden in a 1v1 the stamwarden failed or you were running some cheese.
In BG mSorc and Warden are tied. A full warden Group and a full sorc Group are both stronger than other specs. 4 Warden can kill anyone in a huge radius every 3 seconds. while sorcs can only kill one at the time with curse stacking.

In large Groups there is no reason to have a stamchar other than stamwarden as they don't offer anything. Warden has the best PvP Aoe of all stam classes, the best Support and healing and it can spam rapids

in 1vX warden outclasses Dks, Templars and Stamsorcs as they don't have to worry about ranged builds, they can use their ults more frequently and their burst is much higher and it's AoE again while you don't have to see your enmies to start Setting it up

Waffennacht

BohnT wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

People keep getting side tracked on this thread.

It's not how well YOU do or how well some good players do on certain classes.

The point is comparing warden currently to other classes.

Top burst - Warden, birds/ shalk combined with literally anything.

Top Healing - Warden/ magplar , warden has major mending, class heals, heal ults etc... lots of healing.

Maybe top Sustain - Warden - 12% regen, 250 magicka/ stamina a second thanks to passives. If not the top sustain its pretty close.

Top tankyiness - Shimmering negates ranged builds completely, low cost, gives magicka back so it costs around 800 or something if you get the full return, MAJOR heroism which is a very strong effect. It also works against attacks that can't be reflected such as force pulse and birds. Armour buff also gives major protection ...

I usually just run away and ignore wardens on my mag sorc now as there is nothing i can actually do apart from wait for a meteor and hope the warden is stupid enough to not put up shimmering in 5s it takes for me to set up maximum burst, also hope the burst crits enough to instant kill them...

I just pulse the slabs.

Wardens are overrated. They can LoS like no other, but you really shouldn't die to one

Ehhhhhhhhh

Whilst they may not be omg god mode they are very very strong, well, only the stamina version. Undodgeable birds, unblockable and conventionally undodgeable sub, which puts a debuff and hits like an AoE ult. They are quite deadly options but not completely broken. But that damage combined with a dawnbreaker and a dizzy swing is easily one of the strongest damage combos, and unlike other classes its got great mobility, group support, and general healing/survivability.

They are very strong, but so is each class. I'm not saying they're sub par, it's just that in Open World their ability to keep opponents from escaping is huge. Meaning engagements should be on your terms

No class is as strong as warden except for magsorc or stamnb they simply aren't

In what field?

In 1v1 duels, mag DK or mag NB has equivalent potential burst (if not better) and better kiting/tanking abilities

In BGs mSorc has just the very best tools to win each game mode - high mobility for flags/relics and an execute to skyrocket scores in Death match

In large scale groups builds are more tailored to the group and each class has something to contribute.

In 1vX scenarios, I have seen DKs, Wardens, Templars, essentially any class with 2h and a tree perform admirably

in duels a stamwarden won't die if he doesn't want to. You can Play as offensive as you want but if you can kill a stamwarden in a 1v1 the stamwarden failed or you were running some cheese.
In BG mSorc and Warden are tied. A full warden Group and a full sorc Group are both stronger than other specs. 4 Warden can kill anyone in a huge radius every 3 seconds. while sorcs can only kill one at the time with curse stacking.

In large Groups there is no reason to have a stamchar other than stamwarden as they don't offer anything. Warden has the best PvP Aoe of all stam classes, the best Support and healing and it can spam rapids

in 1vX warden outclasses Dks, Templars and Stamsorcs as they don't have to worry about ranged builds, they can use their ults more frequently and their burst is much higher and it's AoE again while you don't have to see your enmies to start Setting it up

Just fyi, in the top end duels, cheese is pretty much the only dish on the menu

ak_pvp

BohnT wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

People keep getting side tracked on this thread.

It's not how well YOU do or how well some good players do on certain classes.

The point is comparing warden currently to other classes.

Top burst - Warden, birds/ shalk combined with literally anything.

Top Healing - Warden/ magplar , warden has major mending, class heals, heal ults etc... lots of healing.

Maybe top Sustain - Warden - 12% regen, 250 magicka/ stamina a second thanks to passives. If not the top sustain its pretty close.

Top tankyiness - Shimmering negates ranged builds completely, low cost, gives magicka back so it costs around 800 or something if you get the full return, MAJOR heroism which is a very strong effect. It also works against attacks that can't be reflected such as force pulse and birds. Armour buff also gives major protection ...

I usually just run away and ignore wardens on my mag sorc now as there is nothing i can actually do apart from wait for a meteor and hope the warden is stupid enough to not put up shimmering in 5s it takes for me to set up maximum burst, also hope the burst crits enough to instant kill them...

I just pulse the slabs.

Wardens are overrated. They can LoS like no other, but you really shouldn't die to one

Ehhhhhhhhh

Whilst they may not be omg god mode they are very very strong, well, only the stamina version. Undodgeable birds, unblockable and conventionally undodgeable sub, which puts a debuff and hits like an AoE ult. They are quite deadly options but not completely broken. But that damage combined with a dawnbreaker and a dizzy swing is easily one of the strongest damage combos, and unlike other classes its got great mobility, group support, and general healing/survivability.

They are very strong, but so is each class. I'm not saying they're sub par, it's just that in Open World their ability to keep opponents from escaping is huge. Meaning engagements should be on your terms

No class is as strong as warden except for magsorc or stamnb they simply aren't

Waffennacht wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

People keep getting side tracked on this thread.

It's not how well YOU do or how well some good players do on certain classes.

The point is comparing warden currently to other classes.

Top burst - Warden, birds/ shalk combined with literally anything.

Top Healing - Warden/ magplar , warden has major mending, class heals, heal ults etc... lots of healing.

Maybe top Sustain - Warden - 12% regen, 250 magicka/ stamina a second thanks to passives. If not the top sustain its pretty close.

Top tankyiness - Shimmering negates ranged builds completely, low cost, gives magicka back so it costs around 800 or something if you get the full return, MAJOR heroism which is a very strong effect. It also works against attacks that can't be reflected such as force pulse and birds. Armour buff also gives major protection ...

I usually just run away and ignore wardens on my mag sorc now as there is nothing i can actually do apart from wait for a meteor and hope the warden is stupid enough to not put up shimmering in 5s it takes for me to set up maximum burst, also hope the burst crits enough to instant kill them...

I just pulse the slabs.

Wardens are overrated. They can LoS like no other, but you really shouldn't die to one

Ehhhhhhhhh

Whilst they may not be omg god mode they are very very strong, well, only the stamina version. Undodgeable birds, unblockable and conventionally undodgeable sub, which puts a debuff and hits like an AoE ult. They are quite deadly options but not completely broken. But that damage combined with a dawnbreaker and a dizzy swing is easily one of the strongest damage combos, and unlike other classes its got great mobility, group support, and general healing/survivability.

They are very strong, but so is each class. I'm not saying they're sub par, it's just that in Open World their ability to keep opponents from escaping is huge. Meaning engagements should be on your terms

No class is as strong as warden except for magsorc or stamnb they simply aren't

In what field?

In 1v1 duels, mag DK or mag NB has equivalent potential burst (if not better) and better kiting/tanking abilities

In BGs mSorc has just the very best tools to win each game mode - high mobility for flags/relics and an execute to skyrocket scores in Death match

In large scale groups builds are more tailored to the group and each class has something to contribute.

In 1vX scenarios, I have seen DKs, Wardens, Templars, essentially any class with 2h and a tree perform admirably

MagNb/DK no where nearly has equivalent burst. MDK duelers focus on dots. MagNB has assassin's will, but that requires set up and is dodgable+blockable, hell even reflectable.

In BG warden has better general mobility, damage and tankiness vs a magsorc. Sure fury for killsteals is a common death match technique, but when one team is all templars/wardens they will most likely win because of the healjerk with warden providing the damage and templar executing. Similarly for relics, sorcs mobility lies in streak, unusable when with a relic.

Large scale warden is still quite relevant, not say a necessary part like a negate/bomblade/templar, but providing AoE defile and using shalk+DB for some AoE. Much better than say an MDK/SDK who is out CC'd in a group or completely useless, respectively.

Yeah, 1vX is generally player skill, but I have not seen anyone get as close to warden level in any modern day class, bar maybe a magsorc. Even people who commonly play warden like kodi have said before that its very strong compared to other classes, with the burst combo probably being one of the best AoE ones* and the stream of ult allowing it rather frequently. (Only higher damage is probably Talons>breath>leap, but less freq+no exe.)

Waffennacht

ak_pvp wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

People keep getting side tracked on this thread.

It's not how well YOU do or how well some good players do on certain classes.

The point is comparing warden currently to other classes.

Top burst - Warden, birds/ shalk combined with literally anything.

Top Healing - Warden/ magplar , warden has major mending, class heals, heal ults etc... lots of healing.

Maybe top Sustain - Warden - 12% regen, 250 magicka/ stamina a second thanks to passives. If not the top sustain its pretty close.

Top tankyiness - Shimmering negates ranged builds completely, low cost, gives magicka back so it costs around 800 or something if you get the full return, MAJOR heroism which is a very strong effect. It also works against attacks that can't be reflected such as force pulse and birds. Armour buff also gives major protection ...

I usually just run away and ignore wardens on my mag sorc now as there is nothing i can actually do apart from wait for a meteor and hope the warden is stupid enough to not put up shimmering in 5s it takes for me to set up maximum burst, also hope the burst crits enough to instant kill them...

I just pulse the slabs.

Wardens are overrated. They can LoS like no other, but you really shouldn't die to one

Ehhhhhhhhh

Whilst they may not be omg god mode they are very very strong, well, only the stamina version. Undodgeable birds, unblockable and conventionally undodgeable sub, which puts a debuff and hits like an AoE ult. They are quite deadly options but not completely broken. But that damage combined with a dawnbreaker and a dizzy swing is easily one of the strongest damage combos, and unlike other classes its got great mobility, group support, and general healing/survivability.

They are very strong, but so is each class. I'm not saying they're sub par, it's just that in Open World their ability to keep opponents from escaping is huge. Meaning engagements should be on your terms

No class is as strong as warden except for magsorc or stamnb they simply aren't

Waffennacht wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

People keep getting side tracked on this thread.

It's not how well YOU do or how well some good players do on certain classes.

The point is comparing warden currently to other classes.

Top burst - Warden, birds/ shalk combined with literally anything.

Top Healing - Warden/ magplar , warden has major mending, class heals, heal ults etc... lots of healing.

Maybe top Sustain - Warden - 12% regen, 250 magicka/ stamina a second thanks to passives. If not the top sustain its pretty close.

Top tankyiness - Shimmering negates ranged builds completely, low cost, gives magicka back so it costs around 800 or something if you get the full return, MAJOR heroism which is a very strong effect. It also works against attacks that can't be reflected such as force pulse and birds. Armour buff also gives major protection ...

I usually just run away and ignore wardens on my mag sorc now as there is nothing i can actually do apart from wait for a meteor and hope the warden is stupid enough to not put up shimmering in 5s it takes for me to set up maximum burst, also hope the burst crits enough to instant kill them...

I just pulse the slabs.

Wardens are overrated. They can LoS like no other, but you really shouldn't die to one

Ehhhhhhhhh

Whilst they may not be omg god mode they are very very strong, well, only the stamina version. Undodgeable birds, unblockable and conventionally undodgeable sub, which puts a debuff and hits like an AoE ult. They are quite deadly options but not completely broken. But that damage combined with a dawnbreaker and a dizzy swing is easily one of the strongest damage combos, and unlike other classes its got great mobility, group support, and general healing/survivability.

They are very strong, but so is each class. I'm not saying they're sub par, it's just that in Open World their ability to keep opponents from escaping is huge. Meaning engagements should be on your terms

No class is as strong as warden except for magsorc or stamnb they simply aren't

In what field?

In 1v1 duels, mag DK or mag NB has equivalent potential burst (if not better) and better kiting/tanking abilities

In BGs mSorc has just the very best tools to win each game mode - high mobility for flags/relics and an execute to skyrocket scores in Death match

In large scale groups builds are more tailored to the group and each class has something to contribute.

In 1vX scenarios, I have seen DKs, Wardens, Templars, essentially any class with 2h and a tree perform admirably

MagNb/DK no where nearly has equivalent burst. MDK duelers focus on dots. MagNB has assassin's will, but that requires set up and is dodgable+blockable, hell even reflectable.

In BG warden has better general mobility, damage and tankiness vs a magsorc. Sure fury for killsteals is a common death match technique, but when one team is all templars/wardens they will most likely win because of the healjerk with warden providing the damage and templar executing. Similarly for relics, sorcs mobility lies in streak, unusable when with a relic.

Large scale warden is still quite relevant, not say a necessary part like a negate/bomblade/templar, but providing AoE defile and using shalk+DB for some AoE. Much better than say an MDK/SDK who is out CC'd in a group or completely useless, respectively.

Yeah, 1vX is generally player skill, but I have not seen anyone get as close to warden level in any modern day class, bar maybe a magsorc. Even people who commonly play warden like kodi have said before that its very strong compared to other classes, with the burst combo probably being one of the best AoE ones* and the stream of ult allowing it rather frequently. (Only higher damage is probably Talons>breath>leap, but less freq+no exe.)

If you're talking duels, mNB has insane burst and dodgeable/reflectable doesn't mean anything against a pro NB.

Also, tooltips of 18k Incap are typical, you'll be dead before you CC break. How duels are won: 25k+ during CC break, I don't see how Stamden is getting a hard CC that's not just walk through-able

leepalmer95

In duels a stamden would be a double s&b stamden, they can survive the burst.

Thogard

Waffennacht wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

People keep getting side tracked on this thread.

It's not how well YOU do or how well some good players do on certain classes.

The point is comparing warden currently to other classes.

Top burst - Warden, birds/ shalk combined with literally anything.

Top Healing - Warden/ magplar , warden has major mending, class heals, heal ults etc... lots of healing.

Maybe top Sustain - Warden - 12% regen, 250 magicka/ stamina a second thanks to passives. If not the top sustain its pretty close.

Top tankyiness - Shimmering negates ranged builds completely, low cost, gives magicka back so it costs around 800 or something if you get the full return, MAJOR heroism which is a very strong effect. It also works against attacks that can't be reflected such as force pulse and birds. Armour buff also gives major protection ...

I usually just run away and ignore wardens on my mag sorc now as there is nothing i can actually do apart from wait for a meteor and hope the warden is stupid enough to not put up shimmering in 5s it takes for me to set up maximum burst, also hope the burst crits enough to instant kill them...

I just pulse the slabs.

Wardens are overrated. They can LoS like no other, but you really shouldn't die to one

Dude you can’t pulse shimmering shield. It’s bugged and won’t even take away a single slab. Was literally testing this two nights ago.