A Sorcerers question: About crytal frags...

Pinja

Like what where people complaining about? Templars put on a bubble; Nightblades go invisible; Dks reflect; Stamina Roll dodge; And everybody block! What's so difficult about it?

Or where people complaining shields? In which case I say again WTF you touch crystal for... Oh wait because other idots don't know what their complaining about, and sorc would suck without it. It's only a 15k shield! My 2h heavy does 13k/2 & my uppercut does more for the full life of it + a stun for the sorc.
C the stun part is important which is why I need mine back, as people can heal threw everything done wrong... Like my build. What is this 'rune cage' anyways? It does no damage & gives no stats effect to help change the fight. Fear slows & maims you, & Night-blades in general can follow up with greater damage & greater effects like defile. What can I do, hope I proc someones absorb heal? While I'm wasting a frame stunning, who knows what else will happen especially in open world. Our execute thresh required continued damage & the syncopation of the holy trinity since its the lowest in the game. Fabled fights where long & came close with careful timing. A hair removed now, due to the nerf, has put magic sorcs on the bottom of the pile when it comes to duels.
Out of sheer ignorance to direct results you fail to see the gameplay that directly denotes class balance as you cater to a failed reward system in BGs like you nerfed Stam sorc thanks to malestrum. Pvp should be balanced off of a direct Vs comparison, like duels. Someone earlier in some drunk ignorance feted the idea the sorcs were superior in open world thanks to negate? Like let me take a zerg of sorcs running nothing but Dapen & blow another zerg up... No, you take 2 night-blades running destros & blow a zerg up. The negate helps. Why would a zerg leader call for more negates? Because their running destro & need someone else to do it... The leading nightblade's get their destro ultimates back up thanks to the the catalyst of kills & passive they set off. They'll need multiple negates to cover the one negates sorcerers slack in order to keep the death & Ap rolling...

Pinja

A Sorcerers Epiphany
Don't Lazarus.

Understand the changes were fresh then, feel free to ignore paper weight comments. Everyone hadn't had the time to see effects or experiment. Main reason why I didn't wring out more comment issues.

Alpheu5

This is months-old news. Every sorc worth their salt has already adapted to these changes.

DMuehlhausen

Alpheu5 wrote: »

This is months-old news. Every sorc worth their salt has already adapted to these changes.

And this is how it is when any class gets a "nerf" or "buff" the ones who struggle to play complain. The ones that are good adapt and change and still pull their weight.

supaskrub

Reading between the lines i would say this is a buff sorc's frags thread and give them multiple negates... or nerf all the other classes.

Pinja

Alpheu5 wrote: »

This is months-old news. Every sorc worth their salt has already adapted to these changes.

That's because they were here months earlier on the PTS before the changes were made, weren't listened to, & left.

Now that's it's later we're seeing the results. Sorcs are loosing duels left & right making class changes.

Hurtfan

<---- Is not worth his salt I guess since I haven't had time to experiment with any other abilities

ADarklore

Pinja wrote: »

Alpheu5 wrote: »

This is months-old news. Every sorc worth their salt has already adapted to these changes.

That's because they were here months earlier on the PTS before the changes were made, weren't listened to, & left.

Now that's it's later we're seeing the results. Sorcs are loosing duels left & right making class changes.

I didn't realize there was a class change option in ESO... or are you saying all Sorcs are creating new characters because the top class was finally brought down to earth with the others?

Pinja

ADarklore wrote: »

Pinja wrote: »

Alpheu5 wrote: »

This is months-old news. Every sorc worth their salt has already adapted to these changes.

That's because they were here months earlier on the PTS before the changes were made, weren't listened to, & left.

Now that's it's later we're seeing the results. Sorcs are loosing duels left & right making class changes.

I didn't realize there was a class change option in ESO... or are you saying all Sorcs are creating new characters because the top class was finally brought down to earth with the others?

Well it's not a free option.

Pinja

Mag Sorcs haven't been the top pvp class in years.

CoachPower

I have adapted to the change but I still think its stupid tbh

ADarklore

Pinja wrote: »

Mag Sorcs haven't been the top pvp class in years.

PvP? What's that?!? Oh, is that the part of the game that ZOS doesn't really care about, other than when they decide to nerf PvE and use PvP as their rational?

So... if MagSorcs aren't the top PvP class, what is?

Pinja

ADarklore wrote: »

Pinja wrote: »

Mag Sorcs haven't been the top pvp class in years.

PvP? What's that?!? Oh, is that the part of the game that ZOS doesn't really care about, other than when they decide to nerf PvE and use PvP as their rational?

So... if MagSorcs aren't the top PvP class, what is?

Gank-blade, bomb-blade, Immortal Templar zerg... O''L man Johnson on a DK,
There's a few pretty competitive things that've had it over a sorcerer the past few patch's.
Throw in stam-dens.

Hurtfan

I don't understand about getting rid of the stun aspect...you can doge/block frags pretty easily as is. If they left that part I could've lived with it, even though the damage was nice of course.

At least with my play style, maybe I need to git gud, the stun helped with ganking. Gave me time to counter a gank by firing off a frag, now I just get ganked and then cut down until I die...

So those who have "adapted", what are you running with now? I've only read one other suggestion, and that person didn't seem happy with the new alternative.

Drummerx04

ADarklore wrote: »

Pinja wrote: »

Mag Sorcs haven't been the top pvp class in years.

PvP? What's that?!? Oh, is that the part of the game that ZOS doesn't really care about, other than when they decide to nerf PvE and use PvP as their rational?

So... if MagSorcs aren't the top PvP class, what is?

Well it depends on the specific task.

Healing: magden, magplar
Tanking: DK, Warden, Templar
AoE bombs: Magblade

1v1, non-pet magsorc is at a disadvantage against: templar (purges everything), dk (dots rip through shields), and warden (projectile shields, heavy timed CC and burst, purges). Magblades are on roughly equal footing, most stamblades are at a disadvantage.

These are just my experiences. In a fight between two players of similar skill and experience, sorcs are usually at a disadvantage.

Sorcs are certainly viable and can be quite effective, but they are not the top class in anything besides kill stealing and shield stacking.

itscompton

Saying that classes should be balanced for dueling is pretty freaking short sighted considering duels probably account for less than 2% of all PvP encounters. Large scale open world fights against multiple opponents are the most common PvP encounters by a huge margin (with small scale Cyrodiil/battleground action accounting for the rest) and as such should be what classes are balanced around for PvP purposes. There are tons of 1v1 fighting games out there you can go play if you want to play a game balanced around those type of fights.
And while I'd love for my Sorc's Frags to stun people still I certainly don't need the mechanic to get kills with him since his burst is so high only truly dedicated healbots or full tanks can survive it and neither of those builds are going to do enough damage to take his shields down before I can recast them.

Alpheu5

CoachPower wrote: »

I have adapted to the change but I still think its stupid tbh

I'm indifferent, but it's just like the wards nerf with the Dark Brotherhood. The ones that want to keep playing sorc will figure it out, and everyone else will change classes.

Hurtfan wrote: »

<---- Is not worth his salt I guess since I haven't had time to experiment with any other abilities

At least you're trying and didn't just scrap the class when you read the patch notes.

Pinja

itscompton wrote: »

Saying that classes should be balanced for dueling is pretty freaking short sighted considering duels probably account for less than 2% of all PvP encounters. Large scale open world fights against multiple opponents are the most common PvP encounters by a huge margin (with small scale Cyrodiil/battleground action accounting for the rest) and as such should be what classes are balanced around for PvP purposes. There are tons of 1v1 fighting games out there you can go play if you want to play a game balanced around those type of fights.
And while I'd love for my Sorc's Frags to stun people still I certainly don't need the mechanic to get kills with him since his burst is so high only truly dedicated healbots or full tanks can survive it and neither of those builds are going to do enough damage to take his shields down before I can recast them.

Well think of it in comparison to reason for a trial dps test. If you can't handle on your own, then the zerg is stronger with something else.

Vahrokh

Crystal frag nerf?
Just showing ZoS is like Blizzard: nerf PvE because of PvP.

DHale

Sorc is not a top tier pvp nor pve class since two patches ago. It is great in duels if camping mines is your thing.

WhitePawPrints

Pinja wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Pinja wrote: »

Mag Sorcs haven't been the top pvp class in years.

PvP? What's that?!? Oh, is that the part of the game that ZOS doesn't really care about, other than when they decide to nerf PvE and use PvP as their rational?

So... if MagSorcs aren't the top PvP class, what is?

Gank-blade, bomb-blade, Immortal Templar zerg... O''L man Johnson on a DK,
There's a few pretty competitive things that've had it over a sorcerer the past few patch's.
Throw in stam-dens.

Ganking nightblades are what you consider top tier? And suicide bombers?! This is a definite L2P thread. Sounds like OP is a sorc main mad that Sorcs aren’t OP anymore.

Suicide bombing is pretty op. Darth Vader knows that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ptdJFFAy68

Pinja

WhitePawPrints wrote: »

Pinja wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Pinja wrote: »

Mag Sorcs haven't been the top pvp class in years.

PvP? What's that?!? Oh, is that the part of the game that ZOS doesn't really care about, other than when they decide to nerf PvE and use PvP as their rational?

So... if MagSorcs aren't the top PvP class, what is?

Gank-blade, bomb-blade, Immortal Templar zerg... O''L man Johnson on a DK,
There's a few pretty competitive things that've had it over a sorcerer the past few patch's.
Throw in stam-dens.

Ganking nightblades are what you consider top tier? And suicide bombers?! This is a definite L2P thread. Sounds like OP is a sorc main mad that Sorcs aren’t OP anymore.

Dude, so is this like bait for a cyrodiil brake down. Do you maybe want to edit that into some questions. Or are you just trying to cover that obviously Nightblades are top-teir prob BIS in cyodiil.

*Nice video.

WhitePawPrints

Pinja wrote: »

WhitePawPrints wrote: »

Pinja wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Pinja wrote: »

Mag Sorcs haven't been the top pvp class in years.

PvP? What's that?!? Oh, is that the part of the game that ZOS doesn't really care about, other than when they decide to nerf PvE and use PvP as their rational?

So... if MagSorcs aren't the top PvP class, what is?

Gank-blade, bomb-blade, Immortal Templar zerg... O''L man Johnson on a DK,
There's a few pretty competitive things that've had it over a sorcerer the past few patch's.
Throw in stam-dens.

Ganking nightblades are what you consider top tier? And suicide bombers?! This is a definite L2P thread. Sounds like OP is a sorc main mad that Sorcs aren’t OP anymore.

Dude, so is this like bait for a cyrodiil brake down. Do you maybe want to edit that into some questions. Or are you just trying to cover that obviously Nightblades are top-teir prob BIS in cyodiil.

Lol. Sorc whine thread confirmed.

Hurtfan

Alpheu5 wrote: »

CoachPower wrote: »

I have adapted to the change but I still think its stupid tbh

I'm indifferent, but it's just like the wards nerf with the Dark Brotherhood. The ones that want to keep playing sorc will figure it out, and everyone else will change classes.

Hurtfan wrote: »

<---- Is not worth his salt I guess since I haven't had time to experiment with any other abilities

At least you're trying and didn't just scrap the class when you read the patch notes.

Kinda don't have a choice and this is just my situation, I only have time for 1 toon, so I'm kinda stuck with the sorc at the moment...suppose I can try another build

WhitePawPrints wrote: »

Pinja wrote: »

WhitePawPrints wrote: »

Pinja wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Pinja wrote: »

Mag Sorcs haven't been the top pvp class in years.

PvP? What's that?!? Oh, is that the part of the game that ZOS doesn't really care about, other than when they decide to nerf PvE and use PvP as their rational?

So... if MagSorcs aren't the top PvP class, what is?

Gank-blade, bomb-blade, Immortal Templar zerg... O''L man Johnson on a DK,
There's a few pretty competitive things that've had it over a sorcerer the past few patch's.
Throw in stam-dens.

Ganking nightblades are what you consider top tier? And suicide bombers?! This is a definite L2P thread. Sounds like OP is a sorc main mad that Sorcs aren’t OP anymore.

Dude, so is this like bait for a cyrodiil brake down. Do you maybe want to edit that into some questions. Or are you just trying to cover that obviously Nightblades are top-teir prob BIS in cyodiil.

Lol. Sorc whine thread confirmed.

No sorc in your signature?

Didgerion

I mainly play mag sorc in PVP and telling you that removing stun from frags was necessary.

As putting curse then stunning with frags then executing was an easy combo and too efficient against non experienced players.

Remember this game is a lot about new players - if they have bad experience and don't stick with the game - the game is dead.

But did you notice? - ZOS gave us Rune Cage - undodgable, unblockable CC - very powerful. I suggest adding that in your combos. Also it is very good against experienced players too - and the combos are more skill based now.
Yes I know there is no more room on the skill bar -but you have to figure it out.
I traded streak for it personally - now streak stays on my overload bar.

Cheers!

WhitePawPrints

Hurtfan wrote: »

Alpheu5 wrote: »

CoachPower wrote: »

I have adapted to the change but I still think its stupid tbh

I'm indifferent, but it's just like the wards nerf with the Dark Brotherhood. The ones that want to keep playing sorc will figure it out, and everyone else will change classes.

Hurtfan wrote: »

<---- Is not worth his salt I guess since I haven't had time to experiment with any other abilities

At least you're trying and didn't just scrap the class when you read the patch notes.

Kinda don't have a choice and this is just my situation, I only have time for 1 toon, so I'm kinda stuck with the sorc at the moment...suppose I can try another build

WhitePawPrints wrote: »

Pinja wrote: »

WhitePawPrints wrote: »

Pinja wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Pinja wrote: »

Mag Sorcs haven't been the top pvp class in years.

PvP? What's that?!? Oh, is that the part of the game that ZOS doesn't really care about, other than when they decide to nerf PvE and use PvP as their rational?

So... if MagSorcs aren't the top PvP class, what is?

Gank-blade, bomb-blade, Immortal Templar zerg... O''L man Johnson on a DK,
There's a few pretty competitive things that've had it over a sorcerer the past few patch's.
Throw in stam-dens.

Ganking nightblades are what you consider top tier? And suicide bombers?! This is a definite L2P thread. Sounds like OP is a sorc main mad that Sorcs aren’t OP anymore.

Dude, so is this like bait for a cyrodiil brake down. Do you maybe want to edit that into some questions. Or are you just trying to cover that obviously Nightblades are top-teir prob BIS in cyodiil.

Lol. Sorc whine thread confirmed.

No sorc in your signature?

My sorc is retired, so is the other half of my character list. Just use him now to grind Skyreach whenever I want some extra gold (if skyreach grind is still a thing).

Pinja

Didgerion wrote: »

I mainly play mag sorc in PVP and telling you that removing stun from frags was necessary.

As putting curse then stunning with frags then executing was an easy combo and too efficient against non experienced players.

Remember this game is a lot about new players - if they have bad experience and don't stick with the game - the game is dead.

But did you notice? - ZOS gave us Rune Cage - undodgable, unblockable CC - very powerful. I suggest adding that in your combos. Also it is very good against experienced players too - and the combos are more skill based now.
Yes I know there is no more room on the skill bar -but you have to figure it out.
I traded streak for it personally - now streak stays on my overload bar.

Cheers!

That's like saying removing the stun from incap, abmbush, or veiled strike was necessary. There more powerfull, less telegraphed, and consistently spamable (even-incap on certain builds.)

And are hands down included in some of the most lethal combos new pvp'r need to learn to survive.

Heck the horse stun took the nerf for them... Like I call full BS on this 'overloaded' crystal frag claim.

Pinja

It's like your nerfing my best high-end skill, removing my competitive gameplay for some whitepaw'd Khajiit's L2P issue? Who complain because they have to do more that just insta-cap some noob with shields.
Who turn tail & leave team mates for better Ap when the fights in close heat.

Night-blades have been a far bigger issue for pvp noobs & players in Cyrodiil. As Gank-blades restrain their freedom to run solo, & bombblades blow them up when their in a pack!
Where is the balance & what is the reason for nerfing a sorcs single target move? When same such reasons wouldn't allow either of those two blade-styles to exist...

Pinja

We where never overpowered this year. We were simply the solo kite killers, we had to do it in plain sight of zergs & lethal herds.
Did we kill those zergs no we ran. If one PVPr or a few decent pugs felt like being bothered there was a good chance you'd die.
Bomb-blades on the other had would lure the who zerg into LOS Hollows then blow half of it up! The other half were range players too scared or knowledgeable to enter who get ganked, counter zerged, or blown up a few moments later in an after bomb.
It might be because we where positioned outside the zerg vs Wrobel's Pixxie elves that we were nerfed. All know that Dks have a fair superiority in duels. Templars weren't shabby some Dps-plars had better burst then my sorc, & we've seen the effects of the buffs to purifying light. There are many combos out there that bust shields & a Sorc.
All this patch did was put us further behind.

pieratsos

Didgerion wrote: »

I mainly play mag sorc in PVP and telling you that removing stun from frags was necessary.

As putting curse then stunning with frags then executing was an easy combo and too efficient against non experienced players.

Remember this game is a lot about new players - if they have bad experience and don't stick with the game - the game is dead.

But did you notice? - ZOS gave us Rune Cage - undodgable, unblockable CC - very powerful. I suggest adding that in your combos. Also it is very good against experienced players too - and the combos are more skill based now.
Yes I know there is no more room on the skill bar -but you have to figure it out.
I traded streak for it personally - now streak stays on my overload bar.

Cheers!

Yeah, lets nerf every single ability in the game that rewards skilled gameplay. No ability in the game should punish anyone for doing mistakes. Everyone should run around just pressing random buttons and hope people will be braindead so they can get kills.

WhitePawPrints

Pinja wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

I mainly play mag sorc in PVP and telling you that removing stun from frags was necessary.

As putting curse then stunning with frags then executing was an easy combo and too efficient against non experienced players.

Remember this game is a lot about new players - if they have bad experience and don't stick with the game - the game is dead.

But did you notice? - ZOS gave us Rune Cage - undodgable, unblockable CC - very powerful. I suggest adding that in your combos. Also it is very good against experienced players too - and the combos are more skill based now.
Yes I know there is no more room on the skill bar -but you have to figure it out.
I traded streak for it personally - now streak stays on my overload bar.

Cheers!

That's like saying removing the stun from incap, abmbush, or veiled strike was necessary. There more powerfull, less telegraphed, and consistently spamable (even-incap on certain builds.)

And are hands down included in some of the most lethal combos new pvp'r need to learn to survive.

Heck the horse stun took the nerf for them... Like I call full BS on this 'overloaded' crystal frag claim.

Give Incap Strike, Ambush and Veiled Strike a 20% chance to cast for no cost and buffed damage, and a great range, then we can talk about removing the stub from the one ability that stuns. The other immobilizes and the third only takes effect when the NB is stealthed. Not to mention that Incapicating Strike is an ultimate, a melee ultimate, that you’re comparing to a base ability.

Of both my NBs, one PvP and other PvE, neither run Incap Strike or Ambush. I don’t even have cloak on my bars and I’ve killed many night blades running those oh so OP abilities. I haven’t been killed by a ganker or suicide bomber for about two years.

DeadlyRecluse

Pinja wrote: »

Pvp should be balanced off of a direct Vs comparison, like duels.

It really, really shouldn't.