If you aren't even Champion 400...

GreenhaloX

Any vet contents, whether DLC dungeons or trials, are all about group efforts. It's not solely the 8 or 9 high dpsers in vMoL, or the couple good healers or tank(s) that will solely carry the group through. No way, Sir.. Same with DLC vet dungeons. For a smooth run, dd/dpsers have to be able to dps effectively, as well as the healers and tank(s) to be able to do their jobs effectively. For non-DLC vet dungeons, sure, you are able to go through without a tank or healers given the dpsers are high enough and self-sustained; or maybe with just a healer and no tank, or vice versa. However, for something like vRoM, vWGT or vCoS, you have to be more in sync if you want a smoother run. No doubt, it will be rougher for those under 300 CP dd/dpsers (I'm being conservative here.) Heck, there those with 500 CP or more that can still have a challenge with DLC vet dungeons.

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

Taylor_MB wrote: »

If you can't carry a CP399...

you might be the problem.

Yeah, my healer will carry a 169 DPS and 342 tank. In Vet Mazzatun.

I'm willing to bet those two didn't even know the dungeon mechanics.

Given that the totems with the final boss (even without the hard mode) are what usually give a lot of groups trouble (because you have to be able to dps that down effectively and fast; otherwise there goes all your resources fast.) That would be quite a feat or challenge to get through that with that lower CP level, and most peeps/players probably would prefer not to have (and nothing about being elitist here.) Sure, if you are that kind soul willing and able, then it's all good. It's your group and your run.

XxBradeyxX

If your not above CP 400 what are you doing

VaranisArano

If you aren't even CP 400 and have ESO+, Divines forbid you dare queue for a Random Veteran Dungeon. You might get a DLC dungeon! Heavens to Murgatroyd, no!

Izaki

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

This thread now has me thinking about those people one seen with VMoL and VHoF skins, while not being anywhere near the CP cap. Or the people I see with the HotR skin. It’s all so very interesting, and incredibly odd when you stumble across a CP300-400ish Flawless Conqueror.

I got my Stormproof around 350 CP and my Flawless around 400 CP. Nothing surprising or extraordinary here. Back when VR16 was still a thing, most people who had Flawless were around 300-400 CP.

The low CP people you see with vHoF and vMoL skins are probably people who got perma-banned in the past and who created a new account.

GreenhaloX

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Don't queue for vet dungeons if you don't know what you're doing.
You are making it sound like every 400+ player has decent dps/ an understanding of tanking with the right restistances/ enough heals

Well.. you have to learn somehow. You can't learn the mechanics if you don't do the dungeons. Heck, I'm maxed CP and haven't done any of the vet dungeons or trials with post-Morrowind yet (whether cause of the lack of desire, thus far, or not being able to play the game as much.) So, if I decided to get into those, you're saying I can't or don't queue, because I wouldn't know what I am doing yet? That's rough, man.. I'm not a guild type player. I'm sure I would hold my own just fine while learning the ropes as we go. However, I would agree much lower CP toons/players or those with less efficiency on self-sustainment and skill abilities may have a rougher time knowing as you go.

Kel

VaranisArano wrote: »

If you aren't even CP 400 and have ESO+, Divines forbid you dare queue for a Random Veteran Dungeon. You might get a DLC dungeon! Heavens to Murgatroyd, no!

Yeah, the key word being "random". It doesn't just mean the content, but the players picked from the pool, too.
Really don't understand the complaint here. If you want a certain cp level, start your own group...ask for players in chat that you feel meet your requirements. Stop making excuses, like the time you play, or being in a hurry. You're in a hurry, but you have enough time to quit and take the 10 minute queue bebuff? That makes zero sense...
You join a random queue, you get randoms to play with. Not a hard concept to understand. You want players of a certain requirement? Make your own group.
If you do that I guess you'd have nothing to complain about though..so that's probably out..

starkerealm

Asardes wrote: »

CP300 is not an entirely arbitrary number. Your stat bonuses cap out at 20% with CP100 invested in each color. If you do a proportional distribution of those CP your damage and mitigation bonuses will be ~90% of what a CP cap player has. You would be doing 36K DPS instead of 40K if your rotation is correct. It's the maths.

Let's be honest, if you're pushing 36k DPS, that extra 4k does not matter outside of some edge cases. It's players pushing less than 10k that are causing problems. Even at 690, that 20% bonus won't be enough to clear content if they couldn't figure out the mechanics.

Also, I could have sworn that stat inflation stopped at 150 or somewhere down there, but it's been a long time since I checked.

tizodd

I'm willing to bet the majority of people who think it's fine for a low cp player to do vet dlc dungeons, are either:

1. Low cp players who've been carried and don't know what a pain it was for the carriers;
2. Never even attempted a vet dlc dungeon;
3. Never run a vet dungeon with a below cp400 player (specifically dps).

It has nothing to do with being an elitist or thinking newer players suck or anything like that. It's just the natural progression of things...the same way a high school athelete isn't ready to play in the pros. People need to get their feet wet in normals before jumping into vets.

I didn't even heal my first vet until I was cp400+ because I didn't want to be the weak link slowing everyone else down. I don't plan to dps one until I'm about cp600+.

Thogard

Bro if you want the skin, use your friends list instead of the group finder lol

starkerealm

tizodd wrote: »

I'm willing to bet the majority of people who think it's fine for a low cp player to do vet dlc dungeons, are either:

1. Low cp players who've been carried and don't know what a pain it was for the carriers;
2. Never even attempted a vet dlc dungeon;
3. Never run a vet dungeon with a below cp400 player (specifically dps).

It has nothing to do with being an elitist or thinking newer players suck or anything like that. It's just the natural progression of things...the same way a high school athelete isn't ready to play in the pros. People need to get their feet wet in normals before jumping into vets.

I didn't even heal my first vet until I was cp400+ because I didn't want to be the weak link slowing everyone else down. I don't plan to dps one until I'm about cp600+.

Or, 4, we know not to run vet dungeons with randos from the group finder.

Apache_Kid

I agree with OP in a sense. If you queue in for a vet-DLC dungeon and have to be carried you're at fault. This mentality that it's acceptable for players who do not perform their roles well enough to have to be carried by veteran players is kind of disgusting to me. However I've seen players that are quite far below max-CP that are very good at their role so while I agree that people who can't handle the content shouldn't queue for it, it doesn't have anything to do with CP.

With all that being said, it's why I just don't use the group-finder for vet-DLC dungeons. If I get one in a vet random I'm usually out of there very quickly and am already trying to get on another character to do something else. No one deserves a carry however. And I know someone is going to quote this and say "Well haven't you ever been carried before?!?!?"

No, I have never queued for content in the activity finder I was incapable of fulfilling my role in. I waited so long before I actually even started to queue for the easiest vet dungeons. I find the concept of having someone carry me to be embarrassing and wasteful of someone else's valuable time. If everyone who played the game was a little more considerate of the time of others this wouldn't be an issue.

Don't queue for content you can't handle and hope for a carry.

Tan9oSuccka

Taylor_MB wrote: »

OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »

Taylor_MB wrote: »

If you can't carry a CP399...

you might be the problem.

I don’t have the time to carry someone.

Then don't PuG a DLC dungeon.

Well said. Pick your battles.

I refuse to Pug any of the Vet DLCs.

GrigorijMalahevich

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

This thread now has me thinking about those people one seen with VMoL and VHoF skins, while not being anywhere near the CP cap. Or the people I see with the HotR skin. It’s all so very interesting, and incredibly odd when you stumble across a CP300-400ish Flawless Conqueror.

Some people are just bad and some people are just good

Uriel_Nocturne

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

Taylor_MB wrote: »

OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »

Taylor_MB wrote: »

If you can't carry a CP399...

you might be the problem.

I don’t have the time to carry someone.

Then don't PuG a DLC dungeon.

Some of us play at such a late hour that the population is 1/20th what it is at primetime. We have no other choice.

Then join a Guild, or learn to carry.

If you're going to PuG a Vet Dungeon, you get what you get, regardless of what time of day you're queuing up for.

LadyNalcarya

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

Stridig wrote: »

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

Morgul667 wrote: »

CP is no clear indication of players level

Experience isn't the only point. Lower CPs have significantly reduced stats across the board and not as many good champion milestone passives.

When you're queueing for some of the hardest content in the game, you'd better be at least champion 400 if you're going to tank and really no lower than 500 as a DPS. Healers can get away with a lot lower, but only if they're proficient at not getting damaged.

I wouldn't say the stats are SIGNIFICANTLY reduced. Unless you think the difference between 13% and 14% is significant, for example.

Milestone passives mostly. It's the same thing as veteran trials. I can't see any group ever allowing anyone below champion 500, and that's when that player is only 1/12th of the team. In these dungeons, that one player is 1/4th of the team. When you have TWO players below level 300, you can immediately tell that you are not going to clear the dungeon no matter how much coaching you try to do, because the dungeon mechanics will utterly destroy you all before you have any hope of whittling the bosses down.

Assuming that they have cps in right places.
Some of cp 600+ guys are so clueless that they might as well put cps in crit resistance not knowing that pve mobs dont crit.
Or they might just spam light attacks which reduces the benefit of maxed out blue cps.
Etc...
Also you dont get extra stats after cp 300 iirc.

But stats arent the main problem when it comes to pugs. Normally you need at least minimal coordination to do dlc dungeons and I doubt its possible with some of the group finder guys. You can carry them (to some extent) as dd but its not possible as a healer.

Danksta

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

Taylor_MB wrote: »

If you can't carry a CP399...

you might be the problem.

Yeah, my healer will carry a 169 DPS and 342 tank. In Vet Mazzatun.

I'm willing to bet those two didn't even know the dungeon mechanics.

Sounds like an issue with those two specific players, but there's plenty of sub-400 CP players that are capable of carrying their weight in a dungeon.

Asardes

Izaki wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

This thread now has me thinking about those people one seen with VMoL and VHoF skins, while not being anywhere near the CP cap. Or the people I see with the HotR skin. It’s all so very interesting, and incredibly odd when you stumble across a CP300-400ish Flawless Conqueror.

I got my Stormproof around 350 CP and my Flawless around 400 CP. Nothing surprising or extraordinary here. Back when VR16 was still a thing, most people who had Flawless were around 300-400 CP.

The low CP people you see with vHoF and vMoL skins are probably people who got perma-banned in the past and who created a new account.

Or people who started out on consoles, or simply made a 2nd PC account or people from the other server who simply came over to play a bit. I'm tempted to create and level chars on NA myself in the future

Asardes

tizodd wrote: »

I'm willing to bet the majority of people who think it's fine for a low cp player to do vet dlc dungeons, are either:

1. Low cp players who've been carried and don't know what a pain it was for the carriers;
2. Never even attempted a vet dlc dungeon;
3. Never run a vet dungeon with a below cp400 player (specifically dps).

And I'm quite willing to prove you wrong:

1. I started tanking veteran dungeons as soon as I hit 50, with about a dozen CP
2. I have all achievements from IC and SotH ones, granted I got them past the CP cap
3. One of the best runs I've had in vCoS was with a 350 CP player who already had Flawless Conqueror

4. I've seen plenty of max CP players being dumb as a floor board in both PvE and PvP. I've even seen a player with 3-4 stars and max CP in Cyrodiil who only spammed snipe and light attacks. He probably worked hard to grind that many AP yet learn nothing from.

Rouven

Just don't PUG if you are afraid of the PUG experience.

Save yourself the frustration, find like minded people and group with them. It works for the event coming up, you just have to use the dungeon finder.

On a related note keep me in mind if you like a personal jester for your dungeon runs. I'll keep in the background so I won't interfere with any mechanics and only tickle the enemy here and there as a distraction while cheering you on and distributing joy. There are a variety of options, if you like I can narrate your heroics as we go, read from the all time customer favourite Lusty Tales Of The Argonian Maid or we can also dive into learning a new language while we are at it.

Call 1-800-1RO-UVEN for your personal dungeon needs. Only available for a limited time.
Not a doctor. Not responsible for any side effects or failure on your part.Lag and disconnects included.

bitels

Simple solution- join a guild, go there with premade group. Group Finder is like a box of chocolates- you never know what group you will get. So just stop using LFG tool if you are not ready for that.

Either that or just:

Surgee

ArchMikem wrote: »

Basically don't queue into any Vet phase 2 or DLC Dungeon.

Unless you're a Healer and your group can carry you, then go nuts.

A lot of people just queue into a random dungeon for a daily. Anyway, such a helpful community. No wonder ESO is not getting any new players if it's overrun by elitists who downplay anyone who isn't cp500+ and isn't sporting newest meta gear.

I for one always welcome newbies in my group (even CP 160) and I'm willing to help and explain how it all works. If we fail, too bad, at least they'll realize they need to improve. If everyone just kicks low levels out of the group by default, they'll think the whole community is a bunch of ***.

R4TTIUS

Cloudless wrote: »

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

Don't queue into Veteran Ruins of Mazzatun.

Signed, Just-Wants-Sap-Skin

You forgot to mention they shouldn't refer to their allegedly underleveled characters as "toons".

Wow comment of the day

DocFrost72

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

tourerttrwb17_ESO wrote: »

I have been in the group where CP355 guy main tanked vMOL and we successfully completed it. And you are saying that you have to be CP500 to tank Mazzatun??? @Dapper Dinosaur

Tanking in this game is honestly a cakewalk mechanically. You're also talking about a trial where the tank is 1/12th of the group, and he was probably accompanied by an entire team of 690 hardcore DPS players.

You have absolutely no idea if you genuinely believe this statement.

GrigorijMalahevich

Asardes wrote: »

tizodd wrote: »

I'm willing to bet the majority of people who think it's fine for a low cp player to do vet dlc dungeons, are either:

1. Low cp players who've been carried and don't know what a pain it was for the carriers;
2. Never even attempted a vet dlc dungeon;
3. Never run a vet dungeon with a below cp400 player (specifically dps).

And I'm quite willing to prove you wrong:

1. I started tanking veteran dungeons as soon as I hit 50, with about a dozen CP
2. I have all achievements from IC and SotH ones, granted I got them past the CP cap
3. One of the best runs I've had in vCoS was with a 350 CP player who already had Flawless Conqueror

4. I've seen plenty of max CP players being dumb as a floor board in both PvE and PvP. I've even seen a player with 3-4 stars and max CP in Cyrodiil who only spammed snipe and light attacks. He probably worked hard to grind that many AP yet learn nothing from.

Haha, yes! Unfortunately CP amount doesn’t represent skill in any way shape or form.

shaielzafine

I finished vRoM with random q group finder when I was cp 220ish as a healer. I was wearing SPC + worm & had all the proper abilities slotted. The difficulty that we had with that dungeon was mechanics, not my lack of CP. Once someone higher CP told us what to do / mechanics, we were able to deal with the bosses as a group. I'm glad some people are patient about telling people how to get past a dungeon stage instead of automatically kicking people that are lower CP than them. Got a cool motif, helm and added people as friends I see plenty of high CP players standing in red and doing stupid things so your proposed CP400 requirement doesn't mean anything.

abzdeman

But what about the 690's with 23k health?

Asardes

abzdeman wrote: »

But what about the 690's with 23k health

Sufficient for tank, excessive for anything else.

Dapper Dinosaur

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

tourerttrwb17_ESO wrote: »

I have been in the group where CP355 guy main tanked vMOL and we successfully completed it. And you are saying that you have to be CP500 to tank Mazzatun??? @Dapper Dinosaur

Tanking in this game is honestly a cakewalk mechanically. You're also talking about a trial where the tank is 1/12th of the group, and he was probably accompanied by an entire team of 690 hardcore DPS players.

You have absolutely no idea if you genuinely believe this statement.

I tank plenty. I know.

R4TTIUS

tizodd wrote: »

I'm willing to bet the majority of people who think it's fine for a low cp player to do vet dlc dungeons, are either:

1. Low cp players who've been carried and don't know what a pain it was for the carriers;
2. Never even attempted a vet dlc dungeon;
3. Never run a vet dungeon with a below cp400 player (specifically dps).

It has nothing to do with being an elitist or thinking newer players suck or anything like that. It's just the natural progression of things...the same way a high school athelete isn't ready to play in the pros. People need to get their feet wet in normals before jumping into vets.

I didn't even heal my first vet until I was cp400+ because I didn't want to be the weak link slowing everyone else down. I don't plan to dps one until I'm about cp600+.

Again I've ran vet mazz and vet WGT on my stamblade at cp 200 difference is I had people show me the Mechanics before I got upto cp, yes I won't lie my dps was prolly a bit low around the 20k mark on SB but I have done them.

Running them on norm is vaguely pointless as the Mechanics aren't even there in some dungeons, and one shots don't exist in normal.

I agree people should run norm to get a feel but what you guys are basically saying is your not allowed to play the game until you've spent a few weeks getting to a level I deem appropriate, and that is elitist sorry to say.

If I can run vet mazz and vet WGT at 200cp I would find it easier more than likely doing on my sorc at level 50cp God even level 50 1cp.

Have you ever helped a friend that's a low level do some content before because theres no difference.

U want to say u have to be this level and know the Mechanics before you can enter this dungeon but if all you do is complain about ppl being to low cp, how do you expect the people to learn if u don't help them learn.

It's people that don't help that cause people to not know what there doing as eso has no guide to help you, so next time you see a low cp in your dungeon ask them if they know the Mechanics if they don't stop n explain before the boss I do it on countless occasions and guess what next time you see them in there with a low cp they will pass that knowledge on and won't need your help.

bitels

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

tourerttrwb17_ESO wrote: »

I have been in the group where CP355 guy main tanked vMOL and we successfully completed it. And you are saying that you have to be CP500 to tank Mazzatun??? @Dapper Dinosaur

Tanking in this game is honestly a cakewalk mechanically. You're also talking about a trial where the tank is 1/12th of the group, and he was probably accompanied by an entire team of 690 hardcore DPS players.

You have absolutely no idea if you genuinely believe this statement.

I tank plenty. I know.

Lol.
You didnt tank vHOF- thats for sure. I doubt you tanked vMOL as well. You would not make statements like that if you did