If you aren't even Champion 400...

tommalmm

While CP can be an indicator of one's experience, it guarantees nothing. Would you rather have a CP capped quester or grinder that doesn't have a clue (I've seen A LOT of them, expecially on console) or CP200 on an alternative account/cross region that's been there since beta, can outdps most of the capped players and simply knows mechanics inside and out (I've seen quite a few of these, especially late in the night). Please note, that CP is a frontloaded system now, the CP passive stars are not game changers, everyone at CP300 and above has the same stats (that's where the increase ends).

For me the answer is obvious. I'm closing on CP1000 now on PC/EU and CP450 on PS4/EU, BTW, in case you've wondered. I've flawlessed vMA at ~CP300 on PS4/EU (it's possible to do it earlier, but it becomes harder, even at 300+ it took me many tries).

PS. PUGging DLC dungeons is a hit or miss.

Dapper Dinosaur

Tasear wrote: »

Now Inviting to Moonlight Travelers for pledges, random normals on PC NA. Why pug when you can be with us!

I am on console.

supaskrub

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

Taylor_MB wrote: »

If you can't carry a CP399...

you might be the problem.

Yeah, my healer will carry a 169 DPS and 342 tank. In Vet Mazzatun.

I'm willing to bet those two didn't even know the dungeon mechanics.

But you could use either a dps character or respec your healer to be dps and easily rely on a lower level healer to keep you alive.... but that depends if you actually have decent dps of course..

Dapper Dinosaur

supaskrub wrote: »

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

Taylor_MB wrote: »

If you can't carry a CP399...

you might be the problem.

Yeah, my healer will carry a 169 DPS and 342 tank. In Vet Mazzatun.

I'm willing to bet those two didn't even know the dungeon mechanics.

But you could use either a dps character or respec your healer to be dps and easily rely on a lower level healer to keep you alive.... but that depends if you actually have decent dps of course..

I am not queueing in as my DPS characters because I am still working on them and know I am not good enough on those characters to queue up for this dungeon. It's being responsible. It's what I wish these other people would do.

Houshiki

tommalmm wrote: »

While CP can be an indicator of one's experience, it guarantees nothing. Would you rather have a CP capped quester or grinder that doesn't have a clue (I've seen A LOT of them, expecially on console) or CP200 on an alternative account/cross region that's been there since beta, can outdps most of the capped players and simply knows mechanics inside and out (I've seen quite a few of these, especially late in the night). Please note, that CP is a frontloaded system now, the CP passive stars are not game changers, everyone at CP300 and above has the same stats (that's where the increase ends).

This^.

Last time I checked, pve content(I don't mean quests and overland stuff) was more or less adjusted for cp300. That aside, its very much possible to complete dlc dungeons with below cp300 pugs. Its also just as easy to explain mechanics, and even carry said pugs as long as they're listening and being reasonable. I do it, my bro does it, plenty of other ppl I know does it.

PS. Seeing the elation of newbies that complete the vet dungeon for the first time is always a refreshing sight.

iiYuki

if you want dlc vet dungeon rewards like achievments and skins dont pug then.

starkerealm

Houshiki wrote: »

tommalmm wrote: »

While CP can be an indicator of one's experience, it guarantees nothing. Would you rather have a CP capped quester or grinder that doesn't have a clue (I've seen A LOT of them, expecially on console) or CP200 on an alternative account/cross region that's been there since beta, can outdps most of the capped players and simply knows mechanics inside and out (I've seen quite a few of these, especially late in the night). Please note, that CP is a frontloaded system now, the CP passive stars are not game changers, everyone at CP300 and above has the same stats (that's where the increase ends).

This^.

Last time I checked, pve content(I don't mean quests and overland stuff) was more or less adjusted for cp300. That aside, its very much possible to complete dlc dungeons with below cp300 pugs. Its also just as easy to explain mechanics, and even carry said pugs as long as they're listening and being reasonable. I do it, my bro does it, plenty of other ppl I know does it.

PS. Seeing the elation of newbies that complete the vet dungeon for the first time is always a refreshing sight.

160. Overland content is adjusted and balanced for characters at 160. 300 has been an arbitrary number assigned by the community that doesn't really relate to anything.

EDIT: Actually, on second thought, remembering the pre-One Tamriel days, and the overall feel of balance now, I kinda suspect overland content is balanced for 150, which would go a long way towards explaining why people complain about a lack of challenge in overland content.

Biro123

Glad I stick to PVP where this kind of elitism doesn't exist.

R4TTIUS

Ummm I've been doing these on stam NB since cp 200 soooo..............

WaltherCarraway

Glad I stick to PVP where this kind of elitism doesn't exist.

starkerealm

Glad I stick to PvE where this kind of elitism... oh, right, I don't PUG in the group finder. I stay in guild.

Vhozek

Dumb. I've been joining veteran content since I first hit CP as a tank and never had an issue. Instead if discouraging people you should encourage them to try and get better.

LordGavus

I remember when people demanded cp250 as a minimum, then 300, then 350. This is the first 400 minimum I've seen.

As already mentioned cp doesn't necessarily denote skill. I'm cp690 and only average 22-24k dps. I've grouped with players in the 300 range that have out damaged me and I've grouped with max cp where I do 80% of group damage.

It's the lucky dip of a pug

Shezzarrine

Tanks do not need 400 cp to be effective, there is almost no difference between 300 and 400+ cp on a tank. Dps will continue to improve with more CP but not a tank

starkerealm

LordGavus wrote: »

I remember when people demanded cp250 as a minimum, then 300, then 350. This is the first 400 minimum I've seen.

As already mentioned cp doesn't necessarily denote skill. I'm cp690 and only average 22-24k dps. I've grouped with players in the 300 range that have out damaged me and I've grouped with max cp where I do 80% of group damage.

It's the lucky dip of a pug

Occasionally, you see someone cite the current cap as, "you must be this tall," but, yeah, first time I've ever seen someone pick 400.

That said, most of the time when I see someone quote a number other above 300, I immediately think, "yeah, this guy has no idea what they're doing." Like I said earlier, the 300 is basically arbitrary, but at least it's consistently arbitrary.

MickeyBN

Well that settles it, @Dapper Dinosaur has told me I can’t do the dungeon I paid for.

I’m 335 and about to start Vet RoM for the first time, I also know how to play the game. Dappers logic is a bit of a paradox, before I can enter this dungeon I must know the mechanics but I can’t learn the dungeons mechanics until I enter the dungeon soooo yeah, what am I meant to do Youtube a tutorial? Cmon.

Jade1986

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

Morgul667 wrote: »

CP is no clear indication of players level

Experience isn't the only point. Lower CPs have significantly reduced stats across the board and not as many good champion milestone passives.

When you're queueing for some of the hardest content in the game, you'd better be at least champion 400 if you're going to tank and really no lower than 500 as a DPS. Healers can get away with a lot lower, but only if they're proficient at not getting damaged.

Ive queued as dps at cp 315, no issues. Get off your high horse.

randomkeyhits

starkerealm wrote: »

LordGavus wrote: »

I remember when people demanded cp250 as a minimum, then 300, then 350. This is the first 400 minimum I've seen.

As already mentioned cp doesn't necessarily denote skill. I'm cp690 and only average 22-24k dps. I've grouped with players in the 300 range that have out damaged me and I've grouped with max cp where I do 80% of group damage.

It's the lucky dip of a pug

Occasionally, you see someone cite the current cap as, "you must be this tall," but, yeah, first time I've ever seen someone pick 400.

That said, most of the time when I see someone quote a number other above 300, I immediately think, "yeah, this guy has no idea what they're doing." Like I said earlier, the 300 is basically arbitrary, but at least it's consistently arbitrary.

Perception creep that's all. Seen it in soooo many games.

As the max CP rises so will all the arbitrary gating requirements, by the time max CP is around 850 some people will be shouting for 500 for the same content.

Of course there are those who shout for the highest CP they can possibly get because they know they need carrying but that is another story.

Cloudless

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

Don't queue into Veteran Ruins of Mazzatun.

Signed, Just-Wants-Sap-Skin

You forgot to mention they shouldn't refer to their allegedly underleveled characters as "toons".

Cillion3117

I welcome all levels to join me. Except for OP, you must have 1000 cp or stay out of my queue.

Sylosi

OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »

Taylor_MB wrote: »

If you can't carry a CP399...

you might be the problem.

I don’t have the time to carry someone.

Yet you have had time to make 1367 comments on a forum and probably play an MMORPG for a silly number of hours, it doesn't seem your time is that precious.

Bax

You can't exclude dungeons from random dungeon group search afaik. So man up. You can leave the group and queue again or just find 3 more people and avoid whole randomness. No need to be upset when you willingly join the random queue. And even if you yourself queue for concrete dungeon, rest of the party might (and probably will) be picked from random dungeon queue.

tommalmm

TBH, it looks more like a healer issue. OP doesn't play DD or tank because "responsibility". The truth is, you can't be an excelent tank, DD or healer if you're not at least an average in other roles.

That's where all those BoL spamming healers (you don't know how annoying lack of HoTs is for a tank or DDs that do not slot selfheals, you don't know how comfortable 100% uptime on purifying light is to the melee DDs and tank, otside of emergencies or specific fights like vAS, the only thing that BoL is better at than healing springs, is draining your resources), etc.),
kiting tanks (if you've not played DD, you might not have an idea how low radius some skills like liquid lightning have, you don't know whether a particular AoE is hard or easy to heal through, so you can't decide properly whether to move out or stay - though, playing without healer with 3DDs will teach you all that much faster :0 ) and
annoying, constantly dying DDs (you don't know how to properly position yourself so healer can buff both with single combar prayer, you don't know tank turns some bosses and even mobs for a reasen, you don't know how annoyed the tank is when you dance around the boss or initiate fights making stacking mobs a problem without wasting all the resources, you don't know when it is safe to stay in stupid and DPS the boss down and when it is too taxing on the helaer, risking wipe if healers gets CCd or finally runs out of resources, because not every healer is equally skilled)
come from.

No offence meant.

PS. I do understand, that it is annoying every now and then, what I wanted to say is that's not CP that matters. There are all kinds of players, the good, the average (but willing to learn, usually advice + few tries is enough) and bad. Arbitrarily setting such high CP gate is just plain bad.

If there is one gate we should talk about, it's CP160, but only because many CP10-CP159 players use outleveled gear, so their stats are indeed much worse. It doesn't mean though, that properly geared CP80 will always be worse than CP160.

kringled_1

I've successfully tanked almost all the non-DLC dungeons on vet, well below CP400. And I had a CP 520 dps on _normal_ Darkshade 2 the other day who probably died 20 times in the Grobull fight, and kept up the dying in the dwemer machine fight and couldn't stay near the healer for the guardian.

idk

ArchMikem wrote: »

Basically don't queue into any Vet phase 2 or DLC Dungeon.

Unless you're a Healer and your group can carry you, then go nuts.

Have seen a number of lower CP players who did better than many capped players.

Had a CP20 tank enter his first vet dungeon and did just fine, we did not do HM.
With a CP160 healer cleared vICP HM. Probably the first time that healer saw it on at least vet.

tommalmm wrote: »

TBH, it looks more like a healer issue. OP doesn't play DD or tank because "responsibility". The truth is, you can't be an excelent tank, DD or healer if you're not at least an average in other roles.

That's where all those BoL spamming healers (you don't know how annoying lack of HoTs is for a tank or DDs that do not slot selfheals, you don't know how comfortable 100% uptime on purifying light is to the melee DDs and tank, otside of emergencies or specific fights like vAS, the only thing that BoL is better at than healing springs, is draining your resources), etc.),

Unless the group is less experienced I heal most vet dungeons with BoL. The damage I can add with most random groups is significant. Heck, even WoE with HAs is often 30% of groups damage, Toss in sweeps and I am often 50% of the groups damage or more.

Asardes

CP300 is not an entirely arbitrary number. Your stat bonuses cap out at 20% with CP100 invested in each color. If you do a proportional distribution of those CP your damage and mitigation bonuses will be ~90% of what a CP cap player has. You would be doing 36K DPS instead of 40K if your rotation is correct. It's the maths.

Kel

Another day, another Dapper Dinosaur post trying to tell the community what it can and can't do.
I think the guy just likes being a know it all ***.
Quick everyone, hide your toons!

Dapper Dinosaur

OP doesn't play DD or tank because "responsibility". The truth is, you can't be an excelent tank, DD or healer if you're not at least an average in other roles.

Firstly, I never said I never queued for these dungeons as tank. I actually can tank them just fine. Second, again, tanking in this game (at least for me) is generally VERY easy. The skill and resource management are MUCH easier than DPS rotations, and you can devote nearly all of your attention to what the boss is doing so you can much more easily dodge/prevent attacks outright.

DeadlyRecluse

Does "any random vet" queue pool still include DLC dungeons? If so, can't really blame players tbh.

BlanketFort

Seriously, if you are just going to quit the dungeon as soon as you see below 400 CP players, without even getting to the first boss yet, then wow what an elitist scrub.

I always PUG vet on healer and tank, low CPs don't bother me unless the group damage is way too low that we can't bypass DPS check mechanics on boss fights, OR we are spending 5 minutes on trash packs, OR nobody wants to kick the fake tank that keeps dying to trash packs. That's where i draw the line and I'll leave the group, wishing them luck.

Judge players by how they play, not just their CP. We once brought a 250+ CP to vRoM for *** and giggles, no-deathed it (and probably a speed run too if I didn't keep crashing), and you know what? That player will be a great player someday. They followed mechanics, didn't stand in stupid, and had more that just light attacks in their toolkit. Plenty of CP 690s that can't even finish it. Hell, if your group is awesome, you can carry one lame DD all through-out the dungeon even if all they do is die.

You need to have your e-peen checked.