The Current Destro Pain Train Meta Needs To Die

Publius_Scipio

I will fix this thread. Scipio story time.

Adenoma

Do it, please.

Satiar

Make sure I’m in the story.

Elong

Pubes don't leave me out fam.

Ixtyr

Oh, oh, oh, put me in too! I love stories.

Rainingblood

I'm all for having better counters than nerfing something. An active counter, not another dang proc... *cough EG....

What if something like Negate removed the effect when the EotS moved into the area (only within the area of the casted Negate)?

Ghostbane

Its been a whole day, this story better be a greek (yogurt) epic.

Agrippa_Invisus

Best part about keeping up with this thread and the forums?

Better PVP than in game.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

Rainingblood wrote: »

I'm all for having better counters than nerfing something. An active counter, not another dang proc... *cough EG....

What if something like Negate removed the effect when the EotS moved into the area (only within the area of the casted Negate)?

It would be better if negate functioned as it did before. Could break free from it but it continued to absorb ground casted stuff.

___
@Joy_Division

Joy_Division wrote: »

Well I'm not perfect. After three plus years of frustration and also having to put up with you and Rin's snide remarks condemning VE for things your own guild does, yes I insulted the those tactics that we both use. The horror! Someone get my forum account banned for such a travesty.

Thanks for admitting your comments changed, I know it was hard for you to admit we were right that the language you used when discussing groups changed

Now for the rest of your post. It was nice to finally see a couple of different answers from you, at the start of your post I wasnt sure but we finally got to them about half way through so I'll stick to the same format.

1)

Joy_Division wrote: »

You have no comprehension how pejorative and deprecating what you write is. Yet you are so keen to point out how other people insult you.

I pointed it out because you mentioned "how quick we are to insult you" whilst insulting us yourself. I don't believe I've ever said that I personally minded being insulted or using insulting language. Perhaps you should stop misrepresenting me

2)

Joy_Division wrote: »

"Meanwhile, what you and Rin have against me is directed at me personally. That's another level entirely."

I believe I have shown adequately the insults directed at us by both you and your first responders (I know you love that description :P). Again, if you don't like it don't dish it out.

3)

Joy_Division wrote: »

"deliberately misquote me numerous times."

Every quote of yours has been unedited other than to bold particular sections to highlight a response. I have never "Misquoted" you.
If what you typed isn't what you think then thats your issue not mine

4)

Joy_Division wrote: »

"called me a hypocrite on the basis of these wrong assumptions."

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

That is what makes you a hypocrite, not the fact necessarily that you once played in them <...> now you no longer have the option you have stepped up your attacks on that style to try and get it removed.

See the first paragraph of this post, you admit changing your language when attacking organised groups. The fact that you then later "joined an organised group that evening" doesn't change the fact that when you posted this you didn't have one. Its also evidence that you have calmed down since supposedly now "having a group and MANY INVITES YOU DECLINED".

5)

Joy_Division wrote: »

"And then I have to sit here and listen to you and Rin tell me why I made my own video, my motivations behind it, and what I was criticizing."

You posted the video as proof of your language towards groups not changing. Why are you so "Incredibly insulted" when we analyse your 'proof' and find it doesn't amount to anything.
Should I just post a picture of a cat and say "it proves my argument that you are a hypocrite but don't analyse it because its my picture?

6)

Joy_Division wrote: »

"How would you like it if I posted in your video threads:

"Hi Brian Wheeler, Eric Wrobel, and Rich Lambert. You see, Rin and Izzy and the rest of Drac claim <...>"

I would love it if you tried to do it
The difference is that I don't come and post a video of mine to try and prove something it doesn't relate to.

7)

Joy_Division wrote: »

But then you lecture me about why I made my video and then post a disparaging picture as if I somehow couldn't not comprehend your brilliance.

You really don't like Monkey pictures do you.
Actually the picture (of a monkey scratching its head, the height of insult I agree XD) was a direct response to your quote:
"when it's crystal clear to everyone that it's a metaphor and not meant to be taken literally." It was preceded by my comment "I thought that's what we did now on the forum." being a reply to the previous posts from your guild.

8)

Joy_Division wrote: »

"This false accusation was already put out in this thread and I made it clear that was not how I felt or what I wrote. Knowing this full well, you decided to write it again. This goes beyond insulting and heads toward libelous."

I understand now that you consider a disparaging view of your comments insults. Thats why you consider that I have insulted you so much. Thanks for explaining. I disagree with your claim that you made it clear and you have typed previously that your words did not convey your true thoughts and accepted how they can be misconstrued so its actually you in the wrong

9)You post

Joy_Division wrote: »

"Because it's not my job to moderate Tex. Tex is not me. Tex does not speak for me. If you have an issue with Tex, either take it up with him or contact a ZoS moderater."

but group my thoughts and views with all of Drac's. "You see, Rin and Izzy and the rest of Drac claim"
There's a word for this.. (its one you don't like)

10) I think this is the funniest denial you insist on repeting. My quote:

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

you still ignore your own words and insist that you were insulting tactics

you then type

Joy_Division wrote: »

Not true. I wrote this in response.

Joy_Division wrote: »

I can see how you and others may have taken my insults to the tactics you use personally.

You also refused to answer the "tactics" you were referring to in each of the quotes a-h that I provided. Thanks confirming my view again.


11)

Joy_Division wrote: »

So let's get this straight. You actually read my acknowledgemnt of how what I said was insulting and how it was counterproductive and yet you still wrote that I "still ignore your own words and insist that you were insulting tactics." The words were not ignored and an admission was made.

Again TACTICS is not PLAYERS. See 10.

12)

Joy_Division wrote: »

This is not a black and white issue, not an either or. ESO has improved with respect to certain things and devolved with others.

I agree its not a black and white issue. but when you blame X and say "its good it was removed" to then say 2 paragraphs later removing "X was a bad thing"
Its just poor consitency.

13)

Joy_Division wrote: »

So you are assuming that just because I wanted to fight other guilds that I approved of this meta, thought it was so wonderful for the game, and invalidated my criticism against it?

"preferred fighting ball-groups" vs "I don't want to see them".
Can you see the difference. its not a matter of if you "Liked this style" its the fact that your view changed from wanting to fight a group to not wanting to see them. Why do you keep avoiding this point.

14)

Joy_Division wrote: »

Because this particular tactic is too devastating against those that don't run it.

Groups have ALWAYS been devastating to those that don't run in them. The current meta is actually HARDER on groups (excluding the introduction of earthgore) because they can be killed so quickly.

15)

Joy_Division wrote: »

"tons of evidence that many players believe that ball-groups and mass PBAoEs are a sore spot on the game
Where are your facts that your stack-on-crown destro-bombing at Ash is so appreciated by the rest of the PvP community? Shall I take some screenshots of DC zone chat to give you some perspective from the other side?"

Feel free to listen to some other guilds talk about how they enjoy playing together.
https://youtu.be/pYyQ8ODTC6U
btw Zone screenshots being given as proof of issues its hilarious.

16)

Joy_Division wrote: »

You still calling people out for using disparaging language? You talk the talk, but don't walk the walk.

Notice the difference:
its actually a big problem when people use disparaging language referring to either side and bias the discussion.
Vs
Replying to someone off topic.
The quote you linked wasn't related to any mechanics discussion or even the topic.

frostbreeze

There was a counter to every single bomb group that could ever be formed. It was called dynamic ultimate and it was what made eso pvp balanced( no I don't play dk I main sorc) giving lower numbers a bit of advantage when fighting huge ones. Zos removed it 2 years ago and pvp is dying slowly but surely since then cause the developer wants superior numbers to have guaranteed win no matter the skill involved. Catering to casuals always destroys pvp cause of the obscure nefs to mechanics that have a high skillcap and the buffs to xv1 skillplay. Eso is a casual game so y don't even bother being competitive in it anymore

Xsorus

Dynamic ultimate would do exactly zero right now against a zergball.

bmesi

Hi Steve

Joy_Division

@Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

Keep living in your own world.

Go right on thinking because you quote me in some respects that gives you thee justification to deliberately misrepresent me in a public forum, go right on thinking that the rest of the PvP community is so glad that stack-on-crown destro-bomb groups are out there making Cyrodiil a fun and fair environment for everyone to compete and play.

Oh, and a big difference between you and Rin Vs. me and Tex. You quoted Rin, contended it's the truth (even though it wasn't), and said anyone who does not see things her way does not have a full brain and writes stuff that isn't worth reading. You willingly tied yourself to Rin. I have not quoted Tex, not indicated that I agreed with him, did not mock people who disagreed with him

Go right on deluding yourself that you and that destro ball groups represent all groups in PvP, as if every group agrees with you or your assessments about destro ball-groups. Since you seem it so important that I make amends for insulting people, let me start: @Texas I apologize for calling you a mindless bot.

Anyway, I'm done here as all you are doing is trying to weasel your way out and justify what you censure other people for doing. As you don't appreciate my longer posts, I'll keep my farewell short and sweet.

Joy_Division

.

Sharee

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Well I'm not perfect. After three plus years of frustration and also having to put up with you and Rin's snide remarks condemning VE for things your own guild does, yes I insulted the those tactics that we both use. The horror! Someone get my forum account banned for such a travesty.

Thanks for admitting your comments changed, I know it was hard for you to admit we were right that the language you used when discussing groups changed

He admitted he insulted the tactics you both use. For that to constitute a change of language, he would need to have praised them before. He did not.

Thus, his comments have not changed. He admitted to no such thing. And you were not right.

But, keep on trucking. Maybe someday people will get tired of pointing out your misinterpretations and how you put words into people's mouths that they never said, and you will have the whole thread just for yourself.

Derra

Xsorus wrote: »

Dynamic ultimate would do exactly zero right now against a zergball.

it would in terms of players running in a zergball not doing it anymore bc they could run smaller groups.
Most ppl i know personally running zergballs do it bc there is no other way to play the game in the evening.

techprince

Ghostbane

Rainraven

@Publius_Scipio

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

Joy_Division wrote: »

Anyway, I'm done here as all you are doing is trying to weasel your way out and justify what you censure other people for doing. As you don't appreciate my longer posts, I'll keep my farewell short and sweet.

Thanks for deciding to go back to not replying to any of my points again always nice when someone gives up arguing once they can see they are wrong

Joy_Division wrote: »

justification to deliberately misrepresent me in a public forum

See point 3 of my previous post. I've never misquoted you and you agreed you misrepresented yourself.

Joy_Division wrote: »

Go right on deluding yourself that you and that destro ball groups represent all groups in PvP, as if every group agrees with you or your assessments about destro ball-groups

I don't believe I've ever said this, Infact i've said the opposite. Cyro flourishes when groups of all types (including soloers and zergsurfers) are all participating. It would be better if more groups could strive out on their own away from their faction because that creates more fights and spreads out combat which in turn could lead to higher pop locks etc.

Sharee wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Well I'm not perfect. After three plus years of frustration and also having to put up with you and Rin's snide remarks condemning VE for things your own guild does, yes I insulted the those tactics that we both use. The horror! Someone get my forum account banned for such a travesty.

Thanks for admitting your comments changed, I know it was hard for you to admit we were right that the language you used when discussing groups changed

He admitted he insulted the tactics you both use. For that to constitute a change of language, he would need to have praised them before. He did not.

Thus, his comments have not changed. He admitted to no such thing. And you were not right.

But, keep on trucking. Maybe someday people will get tired of pointing out your misinterpretations and how you put words into people's mouths that they never said, and you will have the whole thread just for yourself.

You're welcome to reply to any of the points I made on Joys behalf if you wish to, Specifically point 10 about not insulting tactics and insulting players would be of interest for me to hear your views.

btw you may wish to use this in your "didn't insult players reply"

Joy_Division wrote: »

Since you seem it so important that I make amends for insulting people, let me start: @Texas I apologize for calling you a mindless bot.

Publius_Scipio

Rainraven wrote: »

Publius_Scipio

Right now NYC is more like northern Skyrim than the good ole Big Apple. But fear not! I will (as always) shovel and defeat the snow, and I will place a story here in this thread as promised.

technohic

Xsorus wrote: »

Dynamic ultimate would do exactly zero right now against a zergball.

I agree. To much is making old ultimates that helped worthless on them. Negate being one of them.

Joy_Division

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

I've never misquoted you and you agreed you misrepresented yourself.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

"Your mission to remove tools to deal with faction stacks by trying to remove organised group play"

dis·in·gen·u·ous
adjective

Not candid or sincere, typically by having an intended meaning altered or misrepresented or by pretending that one knows less about something than one really does.

synonyms: insincere, dishonest, untruthful, false, deceitful, duplicitous, lying, mendacious; hypocritical

Tillalarrien

Hahah why did I only just found this tread? Ok lets dip our toe in the water:

Nerf destros, guild groups will just adapt to new meta. You basicly asking to nerf good organisation and teamwork

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

Joy_Division wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

I've never misquoted you and you agreed you misrepresented yourself.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

"Your mission to remove tools to deal with faction stacks by trying to remove organised group play"

dis·in·gen·u·ous
adjective

Not candid or sincere, typically by having an intended meaning altered or misrepresented or by pretending that one knows less about something than one really does.

synonyms: insincere, dishonest, untruthful, false, deceitful, duplicitous, lying, mendacious; hypocritical

do you mean like posting:

Joy_Division wrote: »

Anyway, I'm done here

and then continuing to reply?

vanzan

Our current group build is with 0 destros, 1 earthgore and 1 negate. You don't have to follow the current meta if you start a new one.

Here is the result

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/388182/video-the-kelly-gang-no-destros-one-earthgore

Texas

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

I'm honestly trying to figure out who the 1 person is who keeps AWESOMING your posts. Must be your gal pal. I can feel that guild love!

Texas

vanzan wrote: »

Our current group build is with 0 destros, 1 earthgore and 1 negate. You don't have to follow the current meta if you start a new one.

Here is the result

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/388182/video-the-kelly-gang-no-destros-one-earthgore

Solid play from a solid guild!

HoloYoitsu

.

HoloYoitsu

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

I've never misquoted you and you agreed you misrepresented yourself.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

"Your mission to remove tools to deal with faction stacks by trying to remove organised group play"

dis·in·gen·u·ous
adjective

Not candid or sincere, typically by having an intended meaning altered or misrepresented or by pretending that one knows less about something than one really does.

synonyms: insincere, dishonest, untruthful, false, deceitful, duplicitous, lying, mendacious; hypocritical

do you mean like posting:

Joy_Division wrote: »

Anyway, I'm done here

and then continuing to reply?

It's generally expected that people reply when you try to defame them in a public forum.

I swear, reading this thread is like watching the wizard and the kitty in DC /zone.