The Current Destro Pain Train Meta Needs To Die

Nihilos

WHO WILL WIN, NEXT TIME ON "WHO IS THE SICKET ZERG GUILD OF ALL THE ZERG GUILDS?" STAY TUNED KIDS

Vilestride

Nihilos wrote: »

WHO WILL WIN, NEXT TIME ON "WHO IS THE SICKET ZERG GUILD OF ALL THE ZERG GUILDS?" STAY TUNED KIDS

my life needs more sicket zerg guilds.

ShadowProc

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

VE is and wasn’t a hive mind. If I was the target of Iz’s ire here I’d understand that given my post history on these forums. Joy is a peculiar target given his reputation and post history, as he’s demonstrated many times in this thread.

What it comes down to Iz or Rin taking something personally because it came from a VE member, and they had little to no idea what Joys opinions or history was. They did pretty much what you’re doing @zyk , you see VE tag and instantly associate it. Joys opinions aren’t my opinions aren’t Bulbs options. We had a lot of ppl in guild, raiders, zergers, Solo players, all with their own thoughts and opinions. If you’re going to hold Joy to account as representative of VE, that’s not an argument worth having and not one he can reasonably win.

What should have happened is you, @Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO should have taken a ding and laid off. All you’ve done for pages is argue to know the mind of a poster better than he does, and for what? So he can apologize to you or something? For a choice of words you disliked? That’s just dumb.

You happily +1d Zyk’s post and it shows your mindset. You’re arguing with VE, not Joy as an individual.

I wondered when they would call you in.
It's always funny to see that you all instantly agro as soon as someone posts something about VE not even concluding that perhaps what was being agreed with might not actually be regarding VE.

On to the other matter. What I and many others have posted time and time again is that in order to have a good discussion (on the topic of the current group meta) insults towards the players which run one style or the other should be avoided.

Exception was taken because Joy, who has in their own words "Zerged with the best of them" was using inflammatory language as part of this discussion. This language not only was against the players not the tactics but also marked an interesting change between the majority of his previous posts and now.

This was then turned into "apparently arguing that I know someones mind better" in an attempt to avoid the argument and to try and personalise it to allow your copious members to start to trash talk with the caveat that "oh we don't speak for each other".

However (as you put it) "VE is and wasn’t a hive mind". Crystal clear thanks

There is something utterly wrong with you if that's your response to Satiars completely rational response.

Xsorus

Let’s say joy supported zergballs and VE fully supported them.

Does it change the fact zergballing is terrible gameplay and the general gvg in this game is crap?

Publius_Scipio

Xsorus wrote: »

Let’s say joy supported zergballs and VE fully supported them.

Does it change the fact zergballing is terrible gameplay and the general gvg in this game is crap?

I personally think that PvP in ESO is fun. The only real problem with Cyrodiil is game performance (which has improved since 2015-2016) related (and of course any bad bugs/op stuff).

Irylia

Who cares?

There will be every type of pvp groups
Solo. Small. Organized medium-large.
Ball Zergs.

What the game needs is to enable objectives Around cyrodiil so that players spread out more and it becomes more user friendly instead of only 3 chokes around the map save when a group tries for a home keep and temporarily pulls a raid.

Scoring ticks higher on resources at home keeps.
3 more towns and all of them provide scoring ticks.
Varying group size quests that bring a Dc groups to outer locations on the map against a ad and ep squad of similar size.
One victor who then gets a faction reward
-cheaper siege for x minutes
-stronger walls on a keep
-more guards in said keep
-minor ap buff for themselves
And the inverse options to make your enemies walls weaker less guards siege cost more.

Give us ap event rewards of the worthy

Change destro ult to
Inferno: single target lob of flame that does damage (can’t be dodged can be blocked) increases dmg to that target for the duration of burn dmg.
Ice: slam your staff into the ground. Aoe frost cones (ic ice atro skill) that root enemies hit. Deal 75/50/25/0% of the initial hit for each successive ice to hit the same target. 8m radius (use it tactically in chokes to root or for self peeling)
Lightning: mag version of db concusses enemies in a cone.
150 cost

Make scrolls worth more scoring points

Then this argument dissolves.
Everyone can find fights to appeal to their tastes.

FireCowCommando

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Let’s say joy supported zergballs and VE fully supported them.

Does it change the fact zergballing is terrible gameplay and the general gvg in this game is crap?

I personally think that PvP in ESO is fun. The only real problem with Cyrodiil is game performance (which has improved since 2015-2016) related (and of course any bad bugs/op stuff).

Drinking more booze than you did in 2015-2016 does not = improvement in game performance...

Publius_Scipio

FireCowCommando wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Let’s say joy supported zergballs and VE fully supported them.

Does it change the fact zergballing is terrible gameplay and the general gvg in this game is crap?

I personally think that PvP in ESO is fun. The only real problem with Cyrodiil is game performance (which has improved since 2015-2016) related (and of course any bad bugs/op stuff).

Drinking more booze than you did in 2015-2016 does not = improvement in game performance...

Wrong!

Egocanemveresum

Rin_Senya wrote: »

Egocanemveresum wrote: »

Did you even read the post? She directly got on Joy's jock for being in VE? Please re-read the comment. I do not think it says what you think it says lol.

I have an argument, namely a negation of yours, which I have reposted multiple times which you have not even tried responding to with any kind of argument. You just insist it is settled while having no actual evidence, direct or indirect. I think you're the one out of ideas here, bud. Please revisit my original posts where I neatly posted your argument in syllogism form. I thought it was fool proof. Murphy's Law in effect?

All you need to do is show, in his own words, where Joy was supportive of the PBAOE ball group style.

There is no difference if he is in VE or any other guild that he used to “mindlessly zerg like a bot following the crown” with - I would call him out for being a hypocrite for this in any case because of what Iza and I said many times before in this thread and even @Zyk explained it to you.
Perhaps next time if you want to participate in the discussion bring something more logical and well thought out rather than “you are salty / a fool” repeated ad nauseam

You say there is no difference in VE or any other guild, yet there were multiple people who "zerged" and posted before Joy who criticized PBAOE ball groups, and you chose to hop on Joy's case for having X opinion while being in Y guild. Had nothing to do with him being in VE despite the fact that you mentioned VE by name as part of his alleged hypocrisy. Christ. This isn't even sophistry at this point. Just idiocy.

Regarding the bold, I posted a three point syllogism many, many times which Izzy categorically ignored due an actual lack of anything even resembling evidence for his conclusion. His point was borrowed from yours. Now you also have the chance to support the premises in that syllogism. It was quite simple, really. It was so "well thought out" that it bore total silence despite the fact that, if there were evidence, it would have been a link or a quote, settled, and done. Also, I only called him salty once. That hardly qualifies as "ad nauseum".

I really don't know who's worse at rhetoric at this point, you or Izzy.

Publius_Scipio

There is only one solution to this BS. Steve of VE and Bulbasir need to come out of retirement, get their team together, and face Dracarys one final time for the fate of all of Cyrodiil. Joy Division and Egocane are barred from ringside. It's the only way to settle this once and for all.

Zyk must decide whether to ride into battle with VE, or be labeled an elf for life and banished.

zyk

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

There is only one solution to this BS. Steve of VE and Bulbasir need to come out of retirement, get their team together, and face Dracarys one final time for the fate of all of Cyrodiil. Joy Division and Egocane are barred from ringside. It's the only way to settle this once and for all.

Zyk must decide whether to ride into battle with VE, or be labeled an elf for life and banished.

I am obviously already an elf.

I can represent AD by making futile attempts to gank their backlines as they fight, only to get run over by both. Then, they can finally find common ground by tbagging my corpse.

Publius_Scipio

zyk wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

There is only one solution to this BS. Steve of VE and Bulbasir need to come out of retirement, get their team together, and face Dracarys one final time for the fate of all of Cyrodiil. Joy Division and Egocane are barred from ringside. It's the only way to settle this once and for all.

Zyk must decide whether to ride into battle with VE, or be labeled an elf for life and banished.

I am obviously already an elf.

I can represent AD by making futile attempts to gank their backlines as they fight, only to get run over by both. Then, they can finally find common ground by tbagging my corpse.

I'm not concerned that your dark elf looks like Mr. Satan from Dragon Ball Z. Dracarys are nothing more than the current representation of pure evil in Cyrodiil. The evil itself has taken many forms over the years. IR, Nexus, Havoc, Haxus, Pact Militia, Kush, Dracarys, etc. Different forms, but don't be fooled, its been the same evil all this time.

Twohothardware

All large AOE ultimates like Destro Ult and Magden's Sleet Storm need to get hit with a real damage nerf that can't be just countered by pumping a few more CP and sets like Vicious Ophidian need their max damage capped. You look at almost every Emp and player high up on the leaderboards and most are using some combo of this because of how easy it is to just drop a Ult and watch a dozen people die.

After that damage reduction when in a group needs to finally be taken out completely. This is a huge part of the reason why balling up in large zergs is so effective because you get the damage mitigation making it so much harder to kill groups vs players individually. It is a stupid game mechanic that only encourages the zerg mentality. They need to find ways to actually punish balling up too close in zergs vs rewarding it.

ShadowProc

Another night ruined by Drag ball group. Their goal to bring as many players in one area as possible. Extremely selfish. Brought server to a halt.

Special shutout to Frozn for selling out. Can't beat them join them huh?

Vilestride

ShadowProc wrote: »

Another night ruined by Drag ball group. Their goal to bring as many players in one area as possible. Extremely selfish. Brought server to a halt.

Special shutout to Frozn for selling out. Can't beat them join them huh?

Good scroll fights. Thanks for coming.

ezeepeezee

Vilestride wrote: »

ShadowProc wrote: »

Another night ruined by Drag ball group. Their goal to bring as many players in one area as possible. Extremely selfish. Brought server to a halt.

Special shutout to Frozn for selling out. Can't beat them join them huh?

Good scroll fights. Thanks for coming.

Yes, I was awestruck by the dazzling display of talent and finesse tonight.

Healing Springs > Healing Springs > Healing Springs > Light Attack > Healing Springs > Healing Springs > Destro Ult

Never have I ever seen such skilled combos.

Oh well, it was fun picking off the stragglers.

Vilestride

ezeepeezee wrote: »

Vilestride wrote: »

ShadowProc wrote: »

Another night ruined by Drag ball group. Their goal to bring as many players in one area as possible. Extremely selfish. Brought server to a halt.

Special shutout to Frozn for selling out. Can't beat them join them huh?

Good scroll fights. Thanks for coming.

Yes, I was awestruck by the dazzling display of talent and finesse tonight.

Healing Springs > Healing Springs > Healing Springs > Light Attack > Healing Springs > Healing Springs > Destro Ult

Never have I ever seen such skilled combos.

Oh well, it was fun picking off the stragglers.

I am glad you had as much fun as us. For me the combos went:

AP > AP > AP > AP > Receive hate tell > Giggle > AP > AP

Qbiken

Ghostbane wrote: »

Chris Nolan should take this thread as a movie script. Someone call Hans Zimmer.

@Ghostbane

Meh, I prefer Thomas Bergersen xD

Anazasi

As some of you are aware, I host a Sunday Morning stream. This past Sunday, I extended an invitation to both Izy and Joy, to openly discuss their debate in a moderated, civil format. The invitation is open ended should either of them decide to take me up on the matter. It's a pretty simple format you simply log into my Team speak and express your points of view there is no need to defend yourselves but rather elaborate on your individual views. I also extended an invitation to all the factional Raid leads / guilds. The purpose of this is to openly discuss perceptions of each other so that we can all come to a better understanding of our community as a whole. I believe once we start removing the perceptual walls of the alliances and begin to humanize each other rather than villainize each other, ESO PVP will improve. This is a process that will take time and effort and of course when changing perceptions it requires a discussion. I believe that there is only so much the written word can convey these days so communicating openly with each other is the next logical step. If you are interested in participating send me a PM and I will get back to you. The show is live on Sundays at 10am Est weekly. We can do one on one or group discussions.

HaroniNDeorum

Anazasi wrote: »

The purpose of this is to openly discuss perceptions of each other so that we can all come to a better understanding of our community as a whole. I believe once we start removing the perceptual walls of the alliances and begin to humanize each other rather than villainize each other, ESO PVP will improve.

Yeah... right.... tell that to your guild mates first, who always t-bag and insult me. Clean up home then bring people, Taran.

Irylia

*popcorn* munch munch munch

I’m baffled by this discussion when sorcs frag doesn’t even stun anymore. Seriously people, get your head in the game. FRAG DOESNT STUN that’s wayyyy more important than a couple firework ults exploding pugs.

Anazasi

HaroniNDeorum wrote: »

Anazasi wrote: »

The purpose of this is to openly discuss perceptions of each other so that we can all come to a better understanding of our community as a whole. I believe once we start removing the perceptual walls of the alliances and begin to humanize each other rather than villainize each other, ESO PVP will improve.

Yeah... right.... tell that to your guild mates first, who always t-bag and insult me. Clean up home then bring people, Taran.

If you are talking about DD, well I have no control over what happens with there groups. DK however is another story. Don't confuse me with them as I don't lead DD raids. I'm a member of DD and run in the afternoons sometimes on support builds. So while i'm sorry you are experiencing this unfortunate ridicule, I'm simply not responsible for it. Please in the future refer to me only when I am the cause. Also I can openly tell you and the community the only person I have and have allowed to be t-bagged by DK is foreskin Mcgee. That was an unfortunate period and will not reoccur in the future thanks to "add-Ignore" and finding my inner strength to just walk away even when he or others choose to behave that way.

It is however, sad to see another good raid lead turn to another faction. I am sure that the members of DD and perhaps the faction that looked up to you feels betrayed. This human feeling alone could be the cause of your unfortunate circumstance. But like i said before you an I don't really play in the same time slot, and I have no control over DD Raids.

usmcjdking

I generally enjoy fighting groups. I don't see the fun in slaying pugs.

HaroniNDeorum

Anazasi wrote: »

HaroniNDeorum wrote: »

Anazasi wrote: »

The purpose of this is to openly discuss perceptions of each other so that we can all come to a better understanding of our community as a whole. I believe once we start removing the perceptual walls of the alliances and begin to humanize each other rather than villainize each other, ESO PVP will improve.

Yeah... right.... tell that to your guild mates first, who always t-bag and insult me. Clean up home then bring people, Taran.

If you are talking about DD, well I have no control over what happens with there groups. DK however is another story. Don't confuse me with them as I don't lead DD raids. I'm a member of DD and run in the afternoons sometimes on support builds. So while i'm sorry you are experiencing this unfortunate ridicule, I'm simply not responsible for it. Please in the future refer to me only when I am the cause. Also I can openly tell you and the community the only person I have and have allowed to be t-bagged by DK is foreskin Mcgee. That was an unfortunate period and will not reoccur in the future thanks to "add-Ignore" and finding my inner strength to just walk away even when he or others choose to behave that way.

It is however, sad to see another good raid lead turn to another faction. I am sure that the members of DD and perhaps the faction that looked up to you feels betrayed. This human feeling alone could be the cause of your unfortunate circumstance. But like i said before you an I don't really play in the same time slot, and I have no control over DD Raids.

Just yesterday i remember watching 1 or 2 dks tabard over my body, unfortunately i dont remember names atm. I know you dont control dd raids but as you said, you are member and if your goal is " I believe once we start removing the perceptual walls of the alliances and begin to humanize each other rather than villainize each other, ESO PVP will improve." You should start on your pvp guilds, even if you are group leder or not. You are part of DD and their behavior and <perceptual wall> should matter to achieve your goal.

I dont know why people think i am completely out of the faction. I have my ad guild, i have 21 guild mates and people in trial to join us and we will keep playing together in our schedule and raid days, the fact we decided to take a long break for holidays doesnt mean we are gone. The "betrayed" feeling i got it the day they expressly rejected all my ideas to help them to improve their guild with a "nah. we are fine, no thanks"; being honest, the condition of many ad pvp guilds are stale because no one wants to improve or make real changes in their guilds. In the other side my guild, Artem, always find and search ways to improve and fix our performance, which i feel really proud to play with this group of people.

I dont understand the fury of my faction when i tried to help many guilds/groups and one by one i got rejected, but as soon as i play my ep character everyone have the energy to rage tell, insult and tbag; i would like to say "take this energy and improve your own group, dude" but i know they wont do it

Roaldy

HaroniNDeorum wrote: »

Anazasi wrote: »

The purpose of this is to openly discuss perceptions of each other so that we can all come to a better understanding of our community as a whole. I believe once we start removing the perceptual walls of the alliances and begin to humanize each other rather than villainize each other, ESO PVP will improve.

Yeah... right.... tell that to your guild mates first, who always t-bag and insult me. Clean up home then bring people, Taran.

Getting hate from just playing multi faction is one of the few reasons I still play. I love how hardcore some people are into this game they rage tell and *** talk us for playing other factions. Like wtf

zyk

@HaroniNDeorum Maybe it's because I hardly play, yet I've seen you trash AD in zone chat recently. Which is interesting because AD is weak atm as the result of so many players switching to other factions. So you have become part of the problem that you were criticizing AD for.

I don't have anything against you, but I can't fault others for being frustrated by yet another player bailing on the losing team.

HaroniNDeorum

zyk wrote: »

@HaroniNDeorum Maybe it's because I hardly play, yet I've seen you trash AD in zone chat recently. Which is interesting because AD is weak atm as the result of so many players switching to other factions. So you have become part of the problem that you were criticizing AD for.

I don't have anything against you, but I can't fault others for being frustrated by yet another player bailing on the losing team.

I would like to read your definition of "trash" because imo, when i say "if you want to win, drop some negates or powerful ultis instead of bow light attack spam the enemies; get some organization" is not <trash AD in zone chat>

zyk

HaroniNDeorum wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

@HaroniNDeorum Maybe it's because I hardly play, yet I've seen you trash AD in zone chat recently. Which is interesting because AD is weak atm as the result of so many players switching to other factions. So you have become part of the problem that you were criticizing AD for.

I don't have anything against you, but I can't fault others for being frustrated by yet another player bailing on the losing team.

I would like to read your definition of "trash" because imo, when i say "if you want to win, drop some negates or powerful ultis instead of bow light attack spam the enemies; get some organization" is not <trash AD in zone chat>

I didn't take a screenshot, but it wasn't very nice and it was more than once. You can become visibly frustrated -- which is one thing as someone who also provides leadership, but completely different when that person is also an opponent. So don't be surprised if that kind of thing rubs people the wrong way.

I realize that most people will do what's best for them, but what happens when it becomes best for everyone to leave the weak faction on any platform?

Players I never dreamed would leave AD have left recently, expressing deep frustration. I know AD does well prime time occasionally, but for the most part it is a very frustrating experience for most. I don't say any of this for myself. Like I said, I don't play much. I don't lose sleep over it. My main concern outside of my remaining friends in AD is the health of the game.

Lucky28

@zyk


no they don't. the only times they really do "well" is morning/afternoon when IA stacks raids in EP's back keeps. At which point AD starts pushing EP causing EP to lose Chalman thus EP and DC stop fighting because chal is blue and AD spends the rest of the day getting mercilessly farmed by both factions.

this is why i'm so amazed with AD. they make the same mistakes everyday it's remarkable.

zyk

Lucky28 wrote: »

this is why i'm so amazed with AD. they make the same mistakes everyday it's remarkable.

Right, because experienced players keep jumping ship. And for everyone who decides to play on a different faction, there's probably someone else who decides just not to play anymore.