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The Current Destro Pain Train Meta Needs To Die
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Egocanemveresum✭✭✭Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »Egocanemveresum wrote: »Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »Egocanemveresum wrote: »Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »Egocanemveresum wrote: »You really have a way of utterly misrepresenting everything you read. It's like people are writing certain things to you and you comprehend next to nothing of what they write. Regardless, I had a more rational proposition for you which I will now repost.
Repetition doesn't make a weak post better. I replied to this already.
No. You did not. Prove that he was not critical of ball groups. Then prove that it occurred concurrent to his guild leaving. If you cannot, your conclusion is wrong.
Unfortunately you have again make a mistake in your conclusion. As I made clear in my previous posts (which I'm sure you have read before coming to your summary)
I haven't made a claim regarding Joy. It is YOUR conclusion that requires evidence. I have read your posts and none of them cite any of Joy's words as being non-critical or supportive of PBAOE ball groups nor were they timed around when his guild left, which I am assuming is fairly recent. You assert over and over that he was using "insulting language" only because his guild left without any real proof other than your point blank assertion. An unsupported, point blank assertion is not rational and proves nothing. Furthermore, a video was posted and Joy's post history was dissected demonstrating that he was always critical of ball groups even while he participated in them. That does not constitute evidence for your point now nor did it then. Your conclusion's premises are either wrong or unproven. I.e. you're full of shite calling in Joy a hypocrite.
I don't think you know how logic works. YOU made a claim about joy. YOU must support it. If you have such undeniable evidence, e.g. Joy's own words, copy/pasting them in a response to this shouldn't be very hard at all considering how much posting you and I have been doing already.
Prove it or shush about it. It's fairly simple.
my point was proved and has been admitted. Good try though
It has not been proven. Joy admitted nothing. Show evidence or just accept that you were absolutely wrong. If it were proven so conclusively it should be fairly easy to show me where Joy was ever supportive or non-critical of ball groups and that his change of heart occurred after his guild quit.
You have no proof. Thus, you have no argument. Not a good try. So try again.1 -
Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Egocanemveresum wrote: »Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »Egocanemveresum wrote: »Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »Egocanemveresum wrote: »Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »Egocanemveresum wrote: »You really have a way of utterly misrepresenting everything you read. It's like people are writing certain things to you and you comprehend next to nothing of what they write. Regardless, I had a more rational proposition for you which I will now repost.
Repetition doesn't make a weak post better. I replied to this already.
No. You did not. Prove that he was not critical of ball groups. Then prove that it occurred concurrent to his guild leaving. If you cannot, your conclusion is wrong.
Unfortunately you have again make a mistake in your conclusion. As I made clear in my previous posts (which I'm sure you have read before coming to your summary)
I haven't made a claim regarding Joy. It is YOUR conclusion that requires evidence. I have read your posts and none of them cite any of Joy's words as being non-critical or supportive of PBAOE ball groups nor were they timed around when his guild left, which I am assuming is fairly recent. You assert over and over that he was using "insulting language" only because his guild left without any real proof other than your point blank assertion. An unsupported, point blank assertion is not rational and proves nothing. Furthermore, a video was posted and Joy's post history was dissected demonstrating that he was always critical of ball groups even while he participated in them. That does not constitute evidence for your point now nor did it then. Your conclusion's premises are either wrong or unproven. I.e. you're full of shite calling in Joy a hypocrite.
I don't think you know how logic works. YOU made a claim about joy. YOU must support it. If you have such undeniable evidence, e.g. Joy's own words, copy/pasting them in a response to this shouldn't be very hard at all considering how much posting you and I have been doing already.
Prove it or shush about it. It's fairly simple.
my point was proved and has been admitted. Good try though
It has not been proven. Joy admitted nothing. Show evidence or just accept that you were absolutely wrong. If it were proven so conclusively it should be fairly easy to show me where Joy was ever supportive or non-critical of ball groups and that his change of heart occurred after his guild quit.
You have no proof. Thus, you have no argument. Not a good try. So try again.
I could post a picture of a ball and say its a ball and you would post that it isn't and I haven't shown proof.
I have posted my proof, you are unable to counter it with any argument other than saying "NO ITS NOT".
If you decide you want to participate in the discussion try again
@Solar_Breeze
NA ~ Izanerys: Dracarys (Videos | Dracast)
EU ~ Izanagi: Roleplay Circle (AOE Rats/ Zerg Squad / Banana Squad)1 -
Rainraven✭✭✭✭✭Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »Egocanemveresum wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »I've never misquoted you and you agreed you misrepresented yourself.Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »"Your mission to remove tools to deal with faction stacks by trying to remove organised group play"
dis·in·gen·u·ous
adjective
Not candid or sincere, typically by having an intended meaning altered or misrepresented or by pretending that one knows less about something than one really does.
synonyms: insincere, dishonest, untruthful, false, deceitful, duplicitous, lying, mendacious; hypocritical
do you mean like posting:Joy_Division wrote: »Anyway, I'm done here
and then continuing to reply?
If you continue to disseminate false information about me on these forums, I am going to reply.
He's only made himself look like a fool for many, many pages in some strange attempt at saving face and/or whiteknighting. He's not worth your time at this point to be honest.
This thread's been more illuminating than is probably intended.
Its actually quite an interesting cultural study for those who are interested in that sort of thing
I don't know that I'd take anybody here as representative of their culture. Unless you mean the guilds in your sigs. Then yeah.5 -
Egocanemveresum✭✭✭Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »Egocanemveresum wrote: »Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »Egocanemveresum wrote: »Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »Egocanemveresum wrote: »Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »Egocanemveresum wrote: »You really have a way of utterly misrepresenting everything you read. It's like people are writing certain things to you and you comprehend next to nothing of what they write. Regardless, I had a more rational proposition for you which I will now repost.
Repetition doesn't make a weak post better. I replied to this already.
No. You did not. Prove that he was not critical of ball groups. Then prove that it occurred concurrent to his guild leaving. If you cannot, your conclusion is wrong.
Unfortunately you have again make a mistake in your conclusion. As I made clear in my previous posts (which I'm sure you have read before coming to your summary)
I haven't made a claim regarding Joy. It is YOUR conclusion that requires evidence. I have read your posts and none of them cite any of Joy's words as being non-critical or supportive of PBAOE ball groups nor were they timed around when his guild left, which I am assuming is fairly recent. You assert over and over that he was using "insulting language" only because his guild left without any real proof other than your point blank assertion. An unsupported, point blank assertion is not rational and proves nothing. Furthermore, a video was posted and Joy's post history was dissected demonstrating that he was always critical of ball groups even while he participated in them. That does not constitute evidence for your point now nor did it then. Your conclusion's premises are either wrong or unproven. I.e. you're full of shite calling in Joy a hypocrite.
I don't think you know how logic works. YOU made a claim about joy. YOU must support it. If you have such undeniable evidence, e.g. Joy's own words, copy/pasting them in a response to this shouldn't be very hard at all considering how much posting you and I have been doing already.
Prove it or shush about it. It's fairly simple.
my point was proved and has been admitted. Good try though
It has not been proven. Joy admitted nothing. Show evidence or just accept that you were absolutely wrong. If it were proven so conclusively it should be fairly easy to show me where Joy was ever supportive or non-critical of ball groups and that his change of heart occurred after his guild quit.
You have no proof. Thus, you have no argument. Not a good try. So try again.
I could post a picture of a ball and say its a ball and you would post that it isn't and I haven't shown proof.
I have posted my proof, you are unable to counter it with any argument other than saying "NO ITS NOT".
If you decide you want to participate in the discussion try again
Here's the thing though, Izzy. You haven't shown ANYTHING. You have no idea how I would respond to your evidence because, thus far, you haven't presented any. You are making, like with joy, point blank and unsupported assertions. If you have evidence supporting your point that you think is pretty clear, go ahead post it. I read this whole thread. It's mostly you and Joy bickering. That does not constitute evidence against him at all. If you have conclusive evidence showing that Joy (1) was supportive or otherwise non-critical of ball groups, present it. Argument from silence is fallacious. (2) If you have conclusive evidence showing that Joy's change of heart was due to his guild leaving, or timed right around that point, present it.
Quote his words. Link me to the page, pages, thread, or threads. Saying "I have proof" but then not showing it is hilariously telling that you don't actually have proof.
I will not support for claims for you. Find it or just gtfo the thread already.Edited by Egocanemveresum on January 5, 2018 9:09PM0 -
Tillalarrien✭✭✭Egocanemveresum wrote: »Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »Egocanemveresum wrote: »Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »Egocanemveresum wrote: »Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »Egocanemveresum wrote: »Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »Egocanemveresum wrote: »You really have a way of utterly misrepresenting everything you read. It's like people are writing certain things to you and you comprehend next to nothing of what they write. Regardless, I had a more rational proposition for you which I will now repost.
Repetition doesn't make a weak post better. I replied to this already.
No. You did not. Prove that he was not critical of ball groups. Then prove that it occurred concurrent to his guild leaving. If you cannot, your conclusion is wrong.
Unfortunately you have again make a mistake in your conclusion. As I made clear in my previous posts (which I'm sure you have read before coming to your summary)
I haven't made a claim regarding Joy. It is YOUR conclusion that requires evidence. I have read your posts and none of them cite any of Joy's words as being non-critical or supportive of PBAOE ball groups nor were they timed around when his guild left, which I am assuming is fairly recent. You assert over and over that he was using "insulting language" only because his guild left without any real proof other than your point blank assertion. An unsupported, point blank assertion is not rational and proves nothing. Furthermore, a video was posted and Joy's post history was dissected demonstrating that he was always critical of ball groups even while he participated in them. That does not constitute evidence for your point now nor did it then. Your conclusion's premises are either wrong or unproven. I.e. you're full of shite calling in Joy a hypocrite.
I don't think you know how logic works. YOU made a claim about joy. YOU must support it. If you have such undeniable evidence, e.g. Joy's own words, copy/pasting them in a response to this shouldn't be very hard at all considering how much posting you and I have been doing already.
Prove it or shush about it. It's fairly simple.
my point was proved and has been admitted. Good try though
It has not been proven. Joy admitted nothing. Show evidence or just accept that you were absolutely wrong. If it were proven so conclusively it should be fairly easy to show me where Joy was ever supportive or non-critical of ball groups and that his change of heart occurred after his guild quit.
You have no proof. Thus, you have no argument. Not a good try. So try again.
I could post a picture of a ball and say its a ball and you would post that it isn't and I haven't shown proof.
I have posted my proof, you are unable to counter it with any argument other than saying "NO ITS NOT".
If you decide you want to participate in the discussion try again
Here's the thing though, Izzy. You haven't shown ANYTHING. You have no idea how I would respond to your evidence because, thus far, you haven't presented any. You are making, like with joy, point blank and unsupported assertions. If you have evidence supporting your point that you think is pretty clear, go ahead post it. I read this whole thread. It's mostly you and Joy bickering. That does not constitute evidence against him at all. If you have conclusive evidence showing that Joy (1) was supportive or otherwise non-critical of ball groups, present it. Argument from silence is fallacious. (2) If you have conclusive evidence showing that Joy's change of heart was due to his guild leaving, or timed right around that point, present it.
Quote his words. Link me to the page, pages, thread, or threads. Saying "I have proof" but then not showing it is hilariously telling that you don't actually have proof.
I will not support for claims for you. Find it or just gtfo the thread already.
TL;DR:
Valkynaz of the Daedric Order1 -
zyk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
This forum and thread are part of AvA's subculture in ESO. It's especially interesting having observed and interacted with the actors for so long.I don't know that I'd take anybody here as representative of their culture. Unless you mean the guilds in your sigs. Then yeah.
I'm not taking sides and I've explicitly stated I do not consider Joy to be a literal hypocrite. I respect and enjoyed fighting both VE and Drac. I have respect for both Izan and Joy as players and as members of this community. They've both contributed a lot.
But his/her damning indictment of ball groups is at least interesting and maybe eyebrow-raising contrasted against the fact that VE was one of the ultimate and perhaps the most infamous ball group in the history of PC/NA. They were all of the things people hate about ball groups. It's also interesting that, in some ways, Drac is related to Havoc and I still have quite a few memories of them balling together when they both played for EP in 2014 and 2015, making life so miserable for the competition that the main campaign became a buff server.
I think we should all laugh at ourselves and each other in scenarios such as this. I do.3 -
Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
This forum and thread are part of AvA's subculture in ESO. It's especially interesting having observed and interacted with the actors for so long.I don't know that I'd take anybody here as representative of their culture. Unless you mean the guilds in your sigs. Then yeah.
I'm not taking sides and I've explicitly stated I do not consider Joy to be a literal hypocrite. I respect and enjoyed fighting both VE and Drac. I have respect for both Izan and Joy as players and as members of this community. They've both contributed a lot.
But his/her damning indictment of ball groups is at least interesting and maybe eyebrow-raising contrasted against the fact that VE was one of the ultimate and perhaps the most infamous ball group in the history of PC/NA. They were all of the things people hate about ball groups. It's also interesting that, in some ways, Drac is related to Havoc and I still have quite a few memories of them balling together when they both played for EP in 2014 and 2015, making life so miserable for the competition that the main campaign became a buff server.
I think we should all laugh at ourselves and each other in scenarios such as this. I do.
+1 @Solar_Breeze
NA ~ Izanerys: Dracarys (Videos | Dracast)
EU ~ Izanagi: Roleplay Circle (AOE Rats/ Zerg Squad / Banana Squad)0 -
Egocanemveresum✭✭✭Tillalarrien wrote: »Egocanemveresum wrote: »Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »Egocanemveresum wrote: »Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »Egocanemveresum wrote: »Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »Egocanemveresum wrote: »Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »Egocanemveresum wrote: »You really have a way of utterly misrepresenting everything you read. It's like people are writing certain things to you and you comprehend next to nothing of what they write. Regardless, I had a more rational proposition for you which I will now repost.
Repetition doesn't make a weak post better. I replied to this already.
No. You did not. Prove that he was not critical of ball groups. Then prove that it occurred concurrent to his guild leaving. If you cannot, your conclusion is wrong.
Unfortunately you have again make a mistake in your conclusion. As I made clear in my previous posts (which I'm sure you have read before coming to your summary)
I haven't made a claim regarding Joy. It is YOUR conclusion that requires evidence. I have read your posts and none of them cite any of Joy's words as being non-critical or supportive of PBAOE ball groups nor were they timed around when his guild left, which I am assuming is fairly recent. You assert over and over that he was using "insulting language" only because his guild left without any real proof other than your point blank assertion. An unsupported, point blank assertion is not rational and proves nothing. Furthermore, a video was posted and Joy's post history was dissected demonstrating that he was always critical of ball groups even while he participated in them. That does not constitute evidence for your point now nor did it then. Your conclusion's premises are either wrong or unproven. I.e. you're full of shite calling in Joy a hypocrite.
I don't think you know how logic works. YOU made a claim about joy. YOU must support it. If you have such undeniable evidence, e.g. Joy's own words, copy/pasting them in a response to this shouldn't be very hard at all considering how much posting you and I have been doing already.
Prove it or shush about it. It's fairly simple.
my point was proved and has been admitted. Good try though
It has not been proven. Joy admitted nothing. Show evidence or just accept that you were absolutely wrong. If it were proven so conclusively it should be fairly easy to show me where Joy was ever supportive or non-critical of ball groups and that his change of heart occurred after his guild quit.
You have no proof. Thus, you have no argument. Not a good try. So try again.
I could post a picture of a ball and say its a ball and you would post that it isn't and I haven't shown proof.
I have posted my proof, you are unable to counter it with any argument other than saying "NO ITS NOT".
If you decide you want to participate in the discussion try again
Here's the thing though, Izzy. You haven't shown ANYTHING. You have no idea how I would respond to your evidence because, thus far, you haven't presented any. You are making, like with joy, point blank and unsupported assertions. If you have evidence supporting your point that you think is pretty clear, go ahead post it. I read this whole thread. It's mostly you and Joy bickering. That does not constitute evidence against him at all. If you have conclusive evidence showing that Joy (1) was supportive or otherwise non-critical of ball groups, present it. Argument from silence is fallacious. (2) If you have conclusive evidence showing that Joy's change of heart was due to his guild leaving, or timed right around that point, present it.
Quote his words. Link me to the page, pages, thread, or threads. Saying "I have proof" but then not showing it is hilariously telling that you don't actually have proof.
I will not support for claims for you. Find it or just gtfo the thread already.
TL;DR:
Actual TL;DR: "Don't make claims without supporting them."0 -
Satiar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭VE is and wasn’t a hive mind. If I was the target of Iz’s ire here I’d understand that given my post history on these forums. Joy is a peculiar target given his reputation and post history, as he’s demonstrated many times in this thread.
What it comes down to Iz or Rin taking something personally because it came from a VE member, and they had little to no idea what Joys opinions or history was. They did pretty much what you’re doing @zyk , you see VE tag and instantly associate it. Joys opinions aren’t my opinions aren’t Bulbs options. We had a lot of ppl in guild, raiders, zergers, Solo players, all with their own thoughts and opinions. If you’re going to hold Joy to account as representative of VE, that’s not an argument worth having and not one he can reasonably win.
What should have happened is you, @Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO should have taken a ding and laid off. All you’ve done for pages is argue to know the mind of a poster better than he does, and for what? So he can apologize to you or something? For a choice of words you disliked? That’s just dumb.
You happily +1d Zyk’s post and it shows your mindset. You’re arguing with VE, not Joy as an individual.Vehemence -- Commander and Raid Lead -- Tri-faction PvP
Knights Paravant -- Co-GM and Raid Lead -- AD Greyhost14 -
Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭VE is and wasn’t a hive mind. If I was the target of Iz’s ire here I’d understand that given my post history on these forums. Joy is a peculiar target given his reputation and post history, as he’s demonstrated many times in this thread.
What it comes down to Iz or Rin taking something personally because it came from a VE member, and they had little to no idea what Joys opinions or history was. They did pretty much what you’re doing @zyk , you see VE tag and instantly associate it. Joys opinions aren’t my opinions aren’t Bulbs options. We had a lot of ppl in guild, raiders, zergers, Solo players, all with their own thoughts and opinions. If you’re going to hold Joy to account as representative of VE, that’s not an argument worth having and not one he can reasonably win.
What should have happened is you, @Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO should have taken a ding and laid off. All you’ve done for pages is argue to know the mind of a poster better than he does, and for what? So he can apologize to you or something? For a choice of words you disliked? That’s just dumb.
You happily +1d Zyk’s post and it shows your mindset. You’re arguing with VE, not Joy as an individual.
I wondered when they would call you in.
It's always funny to see that you all instantly agro as soon as someone posts something about VE not even concluding that perhaps what was being agreed with might not actually be regarding VE.
On to the other matter. What I and many others have posted time and time again is that in order to have a good discussion (on the topic of the current group meta) insults towards the players which run one style or the other should be avoided.
Exception was taken because Joy, who has in their own words "Zerged with the best of them" was using inflammatory language as part of this discussion. This language not only was against the players not the tactics but also marked an interesting change between the majority of his previous posts and now.
This was then turned into "apparently arguing that I know someones mind better" in an attempt to avoid the argument and to try and personalise it to allow your copious members to start to trash talk with the caveat that "oh we don't speak for each other".
However (as you put it) "VE is and wasn’t a hive mind". Crystal clear thanks
Edited by Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO on January 5, 2018 11:38PM@Solar_Breeze
NA ~ Izanerys: Dracarys (Videos | Dracast)
EU ~ Izanagi: Roleplay Circle (AOE Rats/ Zerg Squad / Banana Squad)3 -
Egocanemveresum✭✭✭The only reason Rin, and subsequently you, got on Joy's jock was because he was in VE. It was mentioned in the first response from Rin to Joy and indirectly reference many times.
You already don't know how to logic. I recommend not also making yourself a liar. This is absolutely residual VE salt. That's your only reasonable horse in this race.
It's weird. You're really salty. But you're terrified of just directly crap talking. You are not fooling anyone.Edited by Egocanemveresum on January 5, 2018 11:45PM5 -
Satiar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »VE is and wasn’t a hive mind. If I was the target of Iz’s ire here I’d understand that given my post history on these forums. Joy is a peculiar target given his reputation and post history, as he’s demonstrated many times in this thread.
What it comes down to Iz or Rin taking something personally because it came from a VE member, and they had little to no idea what Joys opinions or history was. They did pretty much what you’re doing @zyk , you see VE tag and instantly associate it. Joys opinions aren’t my opinions aren’t Bulbs options. We had a lot of ppl in guild, raiders, zergers, Solo players, all with their own thoughts and opinions. If you’re going to hold Joy to account as representative of VE, that’s not an argument worth having and not one he can reasonably win.
What should have happened is you, @Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO should have taken a ding and laid off. All you’ve done for pages is argue to know the mind of a poster better than he does, and for what? So he can apologize to you or something? For a choice of words you disliked? That’s just dumb.
You happily +1d Zyk’s post and it shows your mindset. You’re arguing with VE, not Joy as an individual.
I wondered when they would call you in.
It's always funny to see that you all instantly agro as soon as someone posts something about VE not even concluding that perhaps what was being agreed with might not actually be regarding VE.
On to the other matter. What I and many others have posted time and time again is that in order to have a good discussion (on the topic of the current group meta) insults towards the players which run one style or the other should be avoided.
Exception was taken because Joy, who has in their own words "Zerged with the best of them" was using inflammatory language as part of this discussion. This language not only was against the players not the tactics but also marked an interesting change between the majority of his previous posts and now.
This was then turned into "apparently arguing that I know someones mind better" in an attempt to avoid the argument and to try and personalise it to allow your copious members to start to trash talk with the caveat that "oh we don't speak for each other".
However (as you put it) "VE is and wasn’t a hive mind". Crystal clear thanks
At this point you are claiming to know his mind better. He's explained his position, he's explained his mindset, he's shown past posts showing similar sentiments toward the subject. You have no reason to keep pushing at him except sheer momentum or an effort to save face.
If you, as you say, want to "have a good discussion (on the topic of the current group meta) insults towards the players which run one style or the other", I'd put it forward that this includes giving the benefit of the doubt to posters with whom you may disagree with. That you took exception to Joy's choice of words is fine, what is not is that you've hounded him about it for pages. And pages. That's not seeking a "good discussion", that's just being petty. He used words you didn't like, he explained and clarified his position. That you haven't left it there is unfortunate.
Vehemence -- Commander and Raid Lead -- Tri-faction PvP
Knights Paravant -- Co-GM and Raid Lead -- AD Greyhost9 -
Egocanemveresum✭✭✭For reference, here is the post which ignited this sorry bickering. It is also what you, @Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO, subsequently supported leading up to this thread's current state of affairs. I'm actually surprised this thread hasn't been ZoS'd by now.Joy_Division wrote: »The first step to encouraging groups to form is to make running in them and against them dynamic and interesting. However much you may recognize and appreciate the subtitles of how things change form one patch to the next, it still looks like a bunch bots running around spamming PBAoE death.Joy_Division wrote: »Not that I am one to sympathize with ball groups
It's really funny to see this coming from a VE member. So it was completely fine for you to play such kind of style for...how long? 2 years? 3? And now SUDDENLY when your guild died you are so against it, "not one to sympathize" and want it to be nerfed even more just because you are not able/don't want to make a decent group to fight it?
Again, just because you and your friends see it like this after your guild quit it doesn't mean it's the only truth.Drummerx04 wrote: »Cyrodiil doesn't have the population to support the large hardcore organized groups.
As a player within hardcore organized groups which play both on NA and EU, I can tell you that there are always groups to fight. There is always a good population to fight against you just have to go out around the map to find it. Ofc if "the large hardcore organized groups" prefer to faction stack and just zerg one direction with 50 people not knowing anything better than that then it is a problem for sure, I agree.
As mentioned in a previous post in July:
When this was said in July I was surprised not to see VE adapt into smaller groups spread around the map "for the good of the Cyrodiil population" and to have "greater competition to fight against" too based on the views being brought up very regularly these days by multiple members.Tho in this I will admit, VE is a bit of a dinosaur. All the old big guilds we played against for the map and for fights are gone. It is a source of sadness to me that pretty much all the good players left in the game gathered into small guilds and small groups
Drac also has scheduled run times only 3-4 nights a week, I don't think there is a problem there right?Drummerx04 wrote: »[*] Hope there is another group on that can actually fight you head on (my guild has scheduled run times only 3 nights a week)
Again: it's not fun for *you*. When I play in 2-4 Drac man it's always fun for me and people that I play with to hunt and try to derail such groups.Drummerx04 wrote: »^ Those are the options for the average player and even skilled solo players, and none of them are fun.
_
People coming on forums claiming that how they feel about the game is the only truth and only version of facts asking ZOS to nerf things more and more. As the result the game has already been degraded to exactly this stage that so many people hate because groups were nerfed and the knock on effect also hurt every other style: solo, smallscale, organaized groups and simple pug groups.
but yeh.. the problem is only organized group play lets nerf that.
Edited by Egocanemveresum on January 6, 2018 12:10AM4 -
Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »VE is and wasn’t a hive mind. If I was the target of Iz’s ire here I’d understand that given my post history on these forums. Joy is a peculiar target given his reputation and post history, as he’s demonstrated many times in this thread.
What it comes down to Iz or Rin taking something personally because it came from a VE member, and they had little to no idea what Joys opinions or history was. They did pretty much what you’re doing @zyk , you see VE tag and instantly associate it. Joys opinions aren’t my opinions aren’t Bulbs options. We had a lot of ppl in guild, raiders, zergers, Solo players, all with their own thoughts and opinions. If you’re going to hold Joy to account as representative of VE, that’s not an argument worth having and not one he can reasonably win.
What should have happened is you, @Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO should have taken a ding and laid off. All you’ve done for pages is argue to know the mind of a poster better than he does, and for what? So he can apologize to you or something? For a choice of words you disliked? That’s just dumb.
You happily +1d Zyk’s post and it shows your mindset. You’re arguing with VE, not Joy as an individual.
I wondered when they would call you in.
It's always funny to see that you all instantly agro as soon as someone posts something about VE not even concluding that perhaps what was being agreed with might not actually be regarding VE.
On to the other matter. What I and many others have posted time and time again is that in order to have a good discussion (on the topic of the current group meta) insults towards the players which run one style or the other should be avoided.
Exception was taken because Joy, who has in their own words "Zerged with the best of them" was using inflammatory language as part of this discussion. This language not only was against the players not the tactics but also marked an interesting change between the majority of his previous posts and now.
This was then turned into "apparently arguing that I know someones mind better" in an attempt to avoid the argument and to try and personalise it to allow your copious members to start to trash talk with the caveat that "oh we don't speak for each other".
However (as you put it) "VE is and wasn’t a hive mind". Crystal clear thanks
At this point you are claiming to know his mind better.
Actually I'm applying analysis and interpretation to a series of posts. You may wish to try a different tact.
@Egocanemveresum
Thanks for proving that the first post was addressed to many players comments not just Joy's.
Also its nice that you resort to the old "oh you're just salty" argument. Shows you have run out of ideas
Edited by Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO on January 6, 2018 12:20AM@Solar_Breeze
NA ~ Izanerys: Dracarys (Videos | Dracast)
EU ~ Izanagi: Roleplay Circle (AOE Rats/ Zerg Squad / Banana Squad)1 -
Satiar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »VE is and wasn’t a hive mind. If I was the target of Iz’s ire here I’d understand that given my post history on these forums. Joy is a peculiar target given his reputation and post history, as he’s demonstrated many times in this thread.
What it comes down to Iz or Rin taking something personally because it came from a VE member, and they had little to no idea what Joys opinions or history was. They did pretty much what you’re doing @zyk , you see VE tag and instantly associate it. Joys opinions aren’t my opinions aren’t Bulbs options. We had a lot of ppl in guild, raiders, zergers, Solo players, all with their own thoughts and opinions. If you’re going to hold Joy to account as representative of VE, that’s not an argument worth having and not one he can reasonably win.
What should have happened is you, @Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO should have taken a ding and laid off. All you’ve done for pages is argue to know the mind of a poster better than he does, and for what? So he can apologize to you or something? For a choice of words you disliked? That’s just dumb.
You happily +1d Zyk’s post and it shows your mindset. You’re arguing with VE, not Joy as an individual.
I wondered when they would call you in.
It's always funny to see that you all instantly agro as soon as someone posts something about VE not even concluding that perhaps what was being agreed with might not actually be regarding VE.
On to the other matter. What I and many others have posted time and time again is that in order to have a good discussion (on the topic of the current group meta) insults towards the players which run one style or the other should be avoided.
Exception was taken because Joy, who has in their own words "Zerged with the best of them" was using inflammatory language as part of this discussion. This language not only was against the players not the tactics but also marked an interesting change between the majority of his previous posts and now.
This was then turned into "apparently arguing that I know someones mind better" in an attempt to avoid the argument and to try and personalise it to allow your copious members to start to trash talk with the caveat that "oh we don't speak for each other".
However (as you put it) "VE is and wasn’t a hive mind". Crystal clear thanks
At this point you are claiming to know his mind better.
Actually I'm applying analysis and interpretation to a series of posts. You may wish to try a different tact.
Nay sir.
You put forward an opinion about Joy based on a series of posts in this thread. This opinion was then corrected by Joy. You continue to insist that you are, in fact correct, despite you having little to no prior knowledge of Joy or his opinions and posts beyond what guild he at once point played for.
If you want to claim you're merely applying analysis and interpretation to a series of posts, I'll put forward that you are attempting to make an analysis based on an extremely limited data set. Joy has made many thousands of posts on this forum, and specifically on the subject you care so much about. If you want to make a comprehensive statement about his character, I'd expect you to make a comprehensive study.
You have done the former, not the latter.
I'd again like to ask, what are you trying to accomplish? What is the goal here? Are you attempting to prove Joy is a hypocrite, are you asking him to retract his words, what is point?Vehemence -- Commander and Raid Lead -- Tri-faction PvP
Knights Paravant -- Co-GM and Raid Lead -- AD Greyhost5 -
Egocanemveresum✭✭✭Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »VE is and wasn’t a hive mind. If I was the target of Iz’s ire here I’d understand that given my post history on these forums. Joy is a peculiar target given his reputation and post history, as he’s demonstrated many times in this thread.
What it comes down to Iz or Rin taking something personally because it came from a VE member, and they had little to no idea what Joys opinions or history was. They did pretty much what you’re doing @zyk , you see VE tag and instantly associate it. Joys opinions aren’t my opinions aren’t Bulbs options. We had a lot of ppl in guild, raiders, zergers, Solo players, all with their own thoughts and opinions. If you’re going to hold Joy to account as representative of VE, that’s not an argument worth having and not one he can reasonably win.
What should have happened is you, @Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO should have taken a ding and laid off. All you’ve done for pages is argue to know the mind of a poster better than he does, and for what? So he can apologize to you or something? For a choice of words you disliked? That’s just dumb.
You happily +1d Zyk’s post and it shows your mindset. You’re arguing with VE, not Joy as an individual.
I wondered when they would call you in.
It's always funny to see that you all instantly agro as soon as someone posts something about VE not even concluding that perhaps what was being agreed with might not actually be regarding VE.
On to the other matter. What I and many others have posted time and time again is that in order to have a good discussion (on the topic of the current group meta) insults towards the players which run one style or the other should be avoided.
Exception was taken because Joy, who has in their own words "Zerged with the best of them" was using inflammatory language as part of this discussion. This language not only was against the players not the tactics but also marked an interesting change between the majority of his previous posts and now.
This was then turned into "apparently arguing that I know someones mind better" in an attempt to avoid the argument and to try and personalise it to allow your copious members to start to trash talk with the caveat that "oh we don't speak for each other".
However (as you put it) "VE is and wasn’t a hive mind". Crystal clear thanks
At this point you are claiming to know his mind better.
Actually I'm applying analysis and interpretation to a series of posts. You may wish to try a different tact.
@Egocanemveresum
Thanks for proving that the first post was addressed to many players comments not just Joy's.
Also its nice that you resort to the old "oh you're just salty" argument. Shows you have run out of ideas
Did you even read the post? She directly got on Joy's jock for being in VE? Please re-read the comment. I do not think it says what you think it says lol.
I have an argument, namely a negation of yours, which I have reposted multiple times which you have not even tried responding to with any kind of argument. You just insist it is settled while having no actual evidence, direct or indirect. I think you're the one out of ideas here, bud. Please revisit my original posts where I neatly posted your argument in syllogism form. I thought it was fool proof. Murphy's Law in effect?
All you need to do is show, in his own words, where Joy was supportive of the PBAOE ball group style.Edited by Egocanemveresum on January 6, 2018 12:34AM3 -
DisgracefulMind✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭*checks on thread* *goes back to Divinity*Unfortunate magicka warden main.
PC/NA Server
Fairweather Friends
Retired to baby bgs forever. Leave me alone.5 -
Anazasi✭✭✭✭✭
✭Publius_Scipio wrote: »@Publius_Scipio your promise for story time is the only reason we're still reading this thread. I hope you intend to deliver.
I know about honor and keep promises. Remember? I chose the COVENANT back in late March/early April of 2014. You on the other hand sold your soul to a lesser conviction, a pact (a pact with lizard people, can't forget that. Yeah you made a pact with the Geico Gecko). And ever since then whether you liked it or not, you have served the will of warlords like Mad King Krotha, Fixate, Crystalized, Tom Hanks (fake), Murder Thumbs, Blinxey and Bishop of Small Biceps, etc etc etc.
One should never invoke the name "Murder Thumbs" unless you are will to suffer the pain of a Dragon Knight.1 -
zyk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
That's not what I did at all. I said I think it's interesting that a member of one of the most hardcore, disciplined and optimized -- also one of the best -- ball groups presents such a scathing opinion of them. That he's held this opinion for years only makes it more interesting.They did pretty much what you’re doing @zyk , you see VE tag and instantly associate it. Joys opinions aren’t my opinions aren’t Bulbs options. We had a lot of ppl in guild, raiders, zergers, Solo players, all with their own thoughts and opinions. If you’re going to hold Joy to account as representative of VE, that’s not an argument worth having and not one he can reasonably win.
I'm not judging him. I've posted before that I've done the same and more. I've also called out Drac for things in this thread that I've done myself. A member of Drac pointed that out to me and I understood completely. I can laugh at myself about things like that -- and there are a lot of them.Edited by zyk on January 6, 2018 4:24AM5 -
Rin_Senya✭✭✭✭
There is no difference if he is in VE or any other guild that he used to “mindlessly zerg like a bot following the crown” with - I would call him out for being a hypocrite for this in any case because of what Iza and I said many times before in this thread and even @Zyk explained it to you.Egocanemveresum wrote: »Did you even read the post? She directly got on Joy's jock for being in VE? Please re-read the comment. I do not think it says what you think it says lol.
I have an argument, namely a negation of yours, which I have reposted multiple times which you have not even tried responding to with any kind of argument. You just insist it is settled while having no actual evidence, direct or indirect. I think you're the one out of ideas here, bud. Please revisit my original posts where I neatly posted your argument in syllogism form. I thought it was fool proof. Murphy's Law in effect?
All you need to do is show, in his own words, where Joy was supportive of the PBAOE ball group style.
Perhaps next time if you want to participate in the discussion bring something more logical and well thought out rather than “you are salty / a fool” repeated ad nauseam
Edited by Rin_Senya on January 6, 2018 4:49AMAnairi ~ EP | NA | AR50 - Dracarys
Anaire ~ AD/EP | EU | AR50 - Banana Squad/Zerg Squad/AOE Rats2 -
usmcjdking✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭This thread is a strong case-study for college tuition being refundable.0331
06029 -
Publius_Scipio✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭-Teaser for Scipio’s latest movie is shown during a commercial break for The Walking Dead-
*Scipio shirtless on his knees in a dungeon cell, shackled at the wrists to the wall, arms stretched tight upward in opposite directions*
*His head hanging downward as he breathes heavily. His face bloodied and bruised. Blood on the damp cold rough stone floor of the dungeon directly below where his head is hanging*
*A quick uppercut sends Scipio’s head snapping back!*
*Drops of blood go flying into the walls of the cell*
*Scipio’s head falls forward again and hangs as blood drips and pours out of his mouth, collecting below him in the floor*
*He continues to take labored breaths*
*A pair of brass knuckles on the someone’s right hand are seen being wiped down by a cloth*
Male Voice: I gotta tell you Pubes, I’m impressed.
*Camera reveals the man speaking to Scipio*
*It’s Naked Saramis of BoD!!!*
NS: I’m not lying I really am. Your convictions and love for the Covenant really do run deep. If everyone had your spunk we’d have already won the war years ago.
*Naked Saramis chuckles*
*Camera shot shows whole cell now and BoD member Ma’lok standing near the cell door is also chuckling*
*Scipio slowly raises his head*
*Swallows and while taking heavy breaths slowly speaks*
Scipio: You.... *heavy breathing* You betrayed the Covenant.... You are in bed with Dracarys. Selling them destro staves.... Covenant soldiers *spits a mouthful of blood on the floor* good men and women die in those destro ult trains. You and everyone helping you are a disgrace. When word gets out you will pay....
NS: Pay!? Me!?
*Naked S. turns around to Ma’lok*
NS: Us!? BoD pay!?
*Both Naked S. and Ma’lok break out into laughter*
*Turns back around to Scipio*
NS: Please do tell! How will anyone know since you’re in here and you will die in here? And all without a single last spoonful of Greek yogurt!
Scipio: Go.... Go f[snip] yourself Saramis....
NS: Oooohhh! Still some of the good ole biceps of the covenant in you I see! Well let’s see if I can beat it out of you!
*Even before finishing speaking Naked S. connects with a brutal right cross with the brass knuckles*
*He c0cks his arm back ready for another strike when he is interrupted*
Female Voice: Stop!
*Naked S. quickly turns around*
*The camera angle shows a pair of thigh-high patent leather stilletto lace boots standing in the door*
*Naked S. Smiles*
NS: Darling. I was getting concerned you’d miss all the fun.
*The female walks into the cell, the clicking of each heel hitting the stone floor echoing off the walls*
*It’s Harlocke Midnight!*
HM: O I would never in a million years miss this.
*They both smile and passionately kiss in front of Scipio*
*HM and Naked S. both turn to Scipio*
*HM’s hand on Naked S.’s shoulder*
HM: Now for some real fun
-Teaser ends and The Walking Dead reaumes-Edited by Publius_Scipio on January 6, 2018 7:47AM11 -
Satiar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I didn’t know I needed Naked Saramis in my life until now, but nobody quote me on this.Vehemence -- Commander and Raid Lead -- Tri-faction PvP
Knights Paravant -- Co-GM and Raid Lead -- AD Greyhost5 -
mongoLC✭✭✭✭Joy stop playing EP to avoid izzy and play AD or DC. Show some *** if you hate the british high born like I do switch factions and kill him!4
-
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »VE is and wasn’t a hive mind. If I was the target of Iz’s ire here I’d understand that given my post history on these forums. Joy is a peculiar target given his reputation and post history, as he’s demonstrated many times in this thread.
What it comes down to Iz or Rin taking something personally because it came from a VE member, and they had little to no idea what Joys opinions or history was. They did pretty much what you’re doing @zyk , you see VE tag and instantly associate it. Joys opinions aren’t my opinions aren’t Bulbs options. We had a lot of ppl in guild, raiders, zergers, Solo players, all with their own thoughts and opinions. If you’re going to hold Joy to account as representative of VE, that’s not an argument worth having and not one he can reasonably win.
What should have happened is you, @Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO should have taken a ding and laid off. All you’ve done for pages is argue to know the mind of a poster better than he does, and for what? So he can apologize to you or something? For a choice of words you disliked? That’s just dumb.
You happily +1d Zyk’s post and it shows your mindset. You’re arguing with VE, not Joy as an individual.
I wondered when they would call you in.
It's always funny to see that you all instantly agro as soon as someone posts something about VE not even concluding that perhaps what was being agreed with might not actually be regarding VE.
On to the other matter. What I and many others have posted time and time again is that in order to have a good discussion (on the topic of the current group meta) insults towards the players which run one style or the other should be avoided.
Exception was taken because Joy, who has in their own words "Zerged with the best of them" was using inflammatory language as part of this discussion. This language not only was against the players not the tactics but also marked an interesting change between the majority of his previous posts and now.
This was then turned into "apparently arguing that I know someones mind better" in an attempt to avoid the argument and to try and personalise it to allow your copious members to start to trash talk with the caveat that "oh we don't speak for each other".
However (as you put it) "VE is and wasn’t a hive mind". Crystal clear thanks
VE isn't a hive mind.
Just because an ex VE member disagrees with you, does not make them a "cheerleader" and does not mean ex-VE members automatically support each others.
You and Rin, and only you and Rin, have made make incorrect statements about me based on faulty assumptions and willfully misinterpreted my feelings in a public forum. It's not necessarily because of our former guild ties that prompted Steve and others to post here; they are allowed to disagree with you without it being based on bias. Indeed, posters such as Autmnhart, Sharee, Pieratsos, usmcjdking, have also challenged your position and none of them are in VE.
There's a lot that you say that is easy to disagree with. That's what happens when you just assume rather than do a little bit of investigation or research. You and Rin were so convinced that my feelings toward destro ball groups had changed that it must be because VE disbanded and thus I wanted to removed organized group play.Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »Since you no longer have [a destro ball group] you have started a diatribe of complaints against them. That is what makes you a hypocrite
I have one. Thus the basis of you calling me a hypocrite is wrong.Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »Joy has made many posts.
The content of joys post have changed from game suggestions and improvement posts to derogatory group comments since VE disbanded.
Which you did not read.Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »(maybe you complained maybe you didn't havent seen any quotes of yours back then)So now your group disbanded you don't want anyone else to experience this saying that GROUPS are so cancerous for the game
Wrong. That's her imagination.
Oh, by the way. Regarding this point:Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »On to the other matter. What I and many others have posted time and time again is that in order to have a good discussion (on the topic of the current group meta) insults towards the players which run one style or the other should be avoided.
LOL on so many levels. Yeah you keep saying it but have no problem ignoring what you keep preaching. Who exactly are these many others in the thread? Are you going to say Rin? She has been so quick and insistent to criticize me for insulting players. ButThere was no single problem for you guys doing it for years faction stacking with multiple guilds and the whole DC populations every single day.
And she calls me a hypocrite.Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »Your mission to remove tools to deal with faction stacks by trying to remove organised group play
More lies.Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »
Actually I'm applying analysis and interpretation to a series of posts.
No. You have made assumptions about me and written stuff about me that is simply not true. And when your statements are wrong, rather than reorient your thinking (what analysis is), you twist my words and make disingenuous statements in a attempt to show you were right all along and anyone who thinks differently has less than a full brain.
You. Don't. Know. Me. Yet you presume to do and write nonsense on these forums. And then you have the audacity to tell me that I go through thousands and thousands of my own posts just to prove who I say I am. Take a long walk off a short pier Izzy. I don't have to prove myself to you.
You lecture me how I felt about this game back in 2014, 2015, 2016, and 2017 without knowing a damn thing about me and without proof. You tell me what my motivations were and why they have changed without proof. You put all this nonsense on a public forum page after page and insist it's correct. That's harassment.
It doesn't take a VE "hive mind" or a cheerleader to recognize that.
Edited by Joy_Division on January 6, 2018 9:42AM9
