VaranisArano wrote: »
Okay, thanks for clarifying that you mean organized raids that built for survival - which I usually see having a bunch of healers (or earthgore sets, right now) with tactics that center around running and healing while they regen their ultimates, until they rush out ultis blazing, and then return to the running and healing tactics if they didn't wipe their foes - because they have very little damage outside of their ultimates.
Which from the perspective of an organized raider whose raid isn't built around those tactics/builds, yeah, those guys are annoying. Effective, I can't deny that. But annoying. Which really means they are using good tactics and their organization effectively to make themselves a tough nut to crack and I can't really complain too much about that. (Though as an aside, I'm sure Earthgore will be up for some nerfing after Horns of the Reach is less of a new DLC.) For objective based PVP, which is what most organized raids do, this set-up works pretty well.
Tactics for dealing with these guys:
- Paulsimonps already listed a great one in his comment
- This one takes time, yes, and another semi-organized to organized raid.
In the run & heal phase, spread them out and find the healers. Focus fire the healers and you wear down the raid.
In the ulti drop phase, don't be where they dropped their ultimates. Just you don't want to stand in the middle of the incoming destro ulti train.
Rinse repeat until your superior damage wears them down.- Now, if your raid has negates, this gets a lot easier. Negates give you a window where you don't have as much healing, because the magicka healers have to get out. Negate these raids, and they melt a lot quick and you'll take out more healers.
So I understand that groups like this make PVP less enjoyable simply because they take a lot of effort to kill. But I don't think there's a way to disincentivize running half the group as healers (or whatever method they use) in order to have a very survivable group. Adding more means of incoming damage only makes them invest more heavily into tankiness and healing.
However consider the impact of removing damage reduction. Now, those coordinated heals, purges, earthgore procs are all still going to be present, though the group will take more damage. However, the small amount of damage that group can do have now doubled and their opponents have less coordinated defenses. Removing damage reduction makes it easier for that group to win, not harder.
Ultimately, you'll have to decide what you like doing and if dealing with these groups isn't your thing, that's fine. But there's nothing actually wrong with that playstyle, even though I personally think it sounds terribly boring. (I don't PVP with an organized raid to run after my leader and heal in between bombing people with ultimates). But it is making effective use of the tools ZOS gave them to play the map and objective based PVP, so there's nothing wrong with it. Nor do I think that ZOS needs to fundamentally change the way Cyrodiil works in order to address these groups. I suspect ZOS will first try to nerf the items they use, like the Earthgore Set.
Have you played before the 50% damage reduction?. I did, and I'm not missing that 25K+ snipe (where did you go Mr Torture?).
I agree with you that HA SnB builds are overperforming a bit now, but removing the damage reduction is not the solution in my opinion.
Alexandrious wrote: »This is all sounding like a l2p issue.....
*Reads some more*
Yea its a l2p issue.
All The Kek
Um. . . adapt or die?
paulsimonps wrote: »
Get a friend that is a sorc, have them use negate and Restraining Prison on them as you run in with Eye of the storm, Proxy Det and Sap essance with Vicious Death slotted. Will still kill a lot of the people in such groups. Small organized group can still beat those types of groups. But I actually think one single person should not be able to kill a 24man group on their own. Help should be needed. And what I mentioned is just one of several ways to do that.
Exactly on each point made. Really points out the premise this thread was created on is not an issue at all. We have said more than once there are tactics for handling Zergs already. No reason to call for a nerf that is not needed.
This was worthy of an insightful.
If you don't like zerg ball you should probably leave Vivec. To me if the players are more evenly spread in 30champ, 7champ, 30nonchamp, both lag and zerg issue will be smaller (I don't really understand why ppl all complain about these while insist staying in vivec)
themaddaedra wrote: »
You have said more than once and none made sense, i'd stop saying the same thing if i were you. Because the things u keep suggesting are neither very dark secrets nor they actually work.
God, zergs are more boring on forums than they are in the game.
themaddaedra wrote: »
You have said more than once and none made sense, i'd stop saying the same thing if i were you. Because the things u keep suggesting are neither very dark secrets nor they actually work.
God, zergs are more boring on forums than they are in the game.
@themaddaedra i dont even post here anymore but the amount of nonsense in this thread is baffling, i understand yout point. Back before heavy was a thing you wore light or medium and thus noone could be extremely tanky without proper buff rotation ans/or Los. If some1 hit you with their full combo you could be killed even without ultimate. Now you drop your full combo with ultinate into someone and they can survive sometimes without making any defensive maneuvers. People run around on builds that are literally unkillable 1on1 if they go full defense but have plenty of dmg to kill some1 with help. The problem/difference from some previous patches is that offense has taken a backseat to defense. If you played defensive for too long before you would die quickly to pressure, now the player who is offensive usually is punished in the end because defensive play is smarter, more cost efficient, and simply easier. Idk if damage directly needs to be brought up but the defensive to offensive scales need to be tipped. My light armor plar can tank groups while my high damage stamblade build cant kill other "dps" players in some cases becuase of healing/blocking/overall damage/resource cost of defense v offense
There's been a damage reduction?
What?
themaddaedra wrote: »There is no counter to zergs. Bombers are perfect for this job but zerg survival is always overdoing. Because aoe damage, detonation, destro ulti they all got nerfed.
Will zergs always be? Yes. But there should be encounter to them as well.
Funkopotamus wrote: »Everything went to hell the day CP was introduced into this game. I argued with many players on these very forums about it.
This was a terrible idea and it has not only cause balance nightmares for the devs in PVE content, but it will always make PVP complete TRASH! Throw in this damage reduction you only reinforce players drive to form zergballs.
CP was/is/prolly will be the WORST idea to ever be implemented into a decent MMO.
Ragnarock41 wrote: »Try sotha sil, Its fun.
EP zergfest 24/7 ruining the campaign.....rather go to the rigged Shor-campaign.....
Ragnarock41 wrote: »
Im always there, fighting the EP outbreak, and I will not fall untill my stamina bar is empty.
(WTB sustain,zos pls)
themaddaedra wrote: »Loading screens, lags, disconnections aside, damage reduction is the worst thing that makes pvp unplayable. Because it made organized trains totally unkillable. And organized trains are the first cause to incredible pings in Cyrodiil.
The thing is, they don't truly care how much damage they do. Either 1k or 5k, all they will do is running around killing people just by surviving. This is pure cancer and without curing it you can't cure pvp at all.
I know it's sometimes frustrating for others to die easily, but it will also mean that you can kill easily too. Everybody complain about zergs but it's complete nonsense that you also complain about damage you get and cry for reduction all the time.
Whatever set you bring, whatever events, pvp gives zero fun when everybody is being slaughtered by meat grinders.
I don't know how everyone else think about this, but i used to enjoy pvp despite the lags and bugs but now i only go there when i need AP. ***, boring, undying snb users all over the map.
How much mitigation does everyone think is being given by CP?
SaintSubwayy wrote: »
SnB ppl arent rly a problem,Imo Elusive Mist is a much bigger problem. 75% dmg reduction is OP as hell.
not even Major Protection gives that much mitigation.
they just pop mag Det on them, EOTS and a Warden takes sleetstorm. Then Elusive mist on damagedealers and then zerg arround = they take like zero dmg, deal decent ammount of dmg but over time they'll kill nearly all ppl in a keep just by running arround.
maybe change elusive mist to give Major Protection, and minor Protection at the same time seems ok.
It's still both Buffs but they cannot use Elusive Mist + major Protection. Also this would kinda fit in to changes back in the day, when they started to "unify" buffs and debuffs.