Damage Reduction made pvp unplayable

badmojo

Reverting purge and rapids to its former non-group based glory would help with this issue. Its not fun at all to watch the enemy zerg ball purge and pop rapids constantly while seeing random players around you die from not being able to move out of their way.

I took a year off the game and came back to a bunch of great improvements, then I tried to give a theif some rapids love, when it didnt take I looked at the tooltip and was stunned for a good 5minutes...raging in zone chat to people who had no idea what I was even on about. It still makes my blood boil when I think about it.

I am a teamplayer, but I dont group, I just support the faction where the map tells me to. Why is my playstyle constantly getting punished while the stack on crown groups keep getting stronger and stronger. There was a time where ZOS wanted to make stacking more vulnerable, they talked about possibly adding skills that would cause a chain reaction type thing, but what did they do? Capped AOE and made support skills group only. fml

VaranisArano

themaddaedra wrote: »

Partially true. They can simply reduce the nonsense mitigation and it'd make the same affect. Of course nobody says that players should be able to hit 50k Assassin's Will procs in Cyrodiil, but this insane mitigation combined with %50 reduction is so nonsense and so boring tbh.

Then the Battle Spirit damage reduction is not causing the problem. Builds with high sustain + mitigation are your problem. Fix those, which ZOS has been trying to do.

Battle Spirit damage reduction is there so that everyone else doesn't HAVE to run builds with high sustain + mitigation in order to survive more than a couple seconds in PVP. Remove that damage reduction and you'll see MORE builds head to the high sustain + mitigation that you have a problem with, not less.

themaddaedra

VaranisArano wrote: »

themaddaedra wrote: »

Partially true. They can simply reduce the nonsense mitigation and it'd make the same affect. Of course nobody says that players should be able to hit 50k Assassin's Will procs in Cyrodiil, but this insane mitigation combined with %50 reduction is so nonsense and so boring tbh.

Then the Battle Spirit damage reduction is not causing the problem. Builds with high sustain + mitigation are your problem. Fix those, which ZOS has been trying to do.

Battle Spirit damage reduction is there so that everyone else doesn't HAVE to run builds with high sustain + mitigation in order to survive more than a couple seconds in PVP. Remove that damage reduction and you'll see MORE builds head to the high sustain + mitigation that you have a problem with, not less.

What did ZoS do to fix these? Lol. All they keep nerfing is damage tbh. Which is also affecting pve badly.

Izaki

jaschacasadiob16_ESO wrote: »

The real problem is that those people abuse physics and line of sight to regen stamina and heal. Put them in an arena and they go down quickly.

Is this a troll comment or are you actually being serious? If you are being serious, then I can't take you seriously.

VaranisArano

Did I miss Morrowind? A large part of Morrowind's sustain issue was ZOS trying to address builds able to have high sustain and high defense and high damage in PVP (and PVE to some extent).

Did I miss the heavy armor constitution nerf, black rose, etc.? That was pretty well directed at players using constitution to increase sustain while running unkillable tanks in PVP?

Did I miss Clockwork City? The heavy armor nerfs were pretty well directed at PVP heavy armor builds using heavy armor and getting plenty of damage.

Now, there's been plenty of debate as to whether ZOS actually fixing the problem, but they certain are trying to. ZOS is pretty clear that they don't really like players being able to be unkillable tanks even though they don't quite seem to be able to break that meta.

ZOS has also been pretty clear that they want there to be counterplay for abilities, so I really doubt that removing damage reduction from battle spirit is going to happen. Removing the damage reduction would hurt players who AREN"T unkillable tanks far more than it would hurt the unkillable tanks. Right now, my healer can survive with reasonable sustain/mitigation, but she's by no means unkillable. If stacking more sustain/mitigation becomes the only way to survive, everyone will do it. Removing/reducing damage mitigation from battle spirit would worsen the very problem you are trying to solve.



The nerfs to damage have a lot more to do with PVE trials players outpacing ZOS' ability to produce new challenging content. ZOS can't compete with the power creep they created in PVE with players using practiced rotations and animation cancelling, so they either have to nerf damage or create content that chllenges the top tier players and is absolutely out of reach for everyone else. They've chosen to nerf damage in order to ease up their development problems and keep content accessible for players who can't pull top tier DPS.

PVP nerfs, on the other hand, tend more towards the stuff that isn't an issue in PVE. No one in PVE have to worry about whether tanks are doing too much damage, or whether an ability's CCs are too hard to break, or whether a visual effect is too hard to dodge. Or whether Crystal Frags has a stun. ZOS does tend to look at unavoidable damage as well, such as proc sets and major ultimates like Eye of the Storm (which is technically avoidable, but definitely heavily used).

So PVE has its own reasons for damage nerfing, unrelated to PVP and entirely related to ZOS' ability to produce new content. PVP nerfs tend to be ones that encourage counterplay, which again, is exactly what the damage reduction from battle spirit makes possible for builds that aren't built to be unkillable tanks.

jaschacasadiob16_ESO

ParaNostram wrote: »

OP, if a build is unkillable then it will be lacking in other areas. Take advantage of that. Yeesh.

As stated before, lack of any kind of phtsics and abusing the environment fully compensate. You should lose stamina for evey jump you do. Similarly, jumping down anything taller than tw ometers should severely damage you, if not CC you in place for some time.

I remind you that in Cyrodill they prevent shortcutting through rivers using slaughterfishes. They could prevent jumping 3 or more floors similarly. Because let's face it, those people all they do is shield, vigor and execute one player... running up and jumping down. This gives you all the time you need to regen all since line of sight is continously broken.

People should play in arenas. No places to hide. Then tactics and skills come into play.

Recremen

Organized groups can always (eventually) beat other organized groups, but I do agree that damage reduction presents something of a problem. Other playstyles have a counter you can invest in, like shieldbreaker set for oldschool shield spammers or slotting magelight or somesuch to help counter gankers. Heck even armor has a counter, just slot lots of penetration. Flat damage reduction, though? Nah, go climb a tree.

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO

this comes from a PvP nightblade 1 shot ganker...
NO
yes I hate it cuz I cant go 1 shot people...literally... but that just adds some more playstyle to it...I would love to have some specific stuff to still be able to do it but is just not possible and besides having EVERYONE running 1 shot builds is stupid anyway... this is a dangerous path to walk on and is hard to find the middle ground...as nb will always be the best stealth gankers in game due to the passives but I also hate when the dmg reductions on players is so low and u meet that 1 Templar mountain that u struggle to kill him and when he is 5% hp he 1 heal and full hp...then repeat.... and I wont even get to the dks...still pvp will always need work and fixes...right now I would love ZoS to focus on fixing lag stuff since the balance is allright-ish... not ok but is not that bad anyway...

Joy_Division

themaddaedra wrote: »

I know it's sometimes frustrating for others to die easily, but it will also mean that you can kill easily too. .

You're never going to convince the PvP community of this. Never. Every class, ability, gear set, ultimate, consumables, everything that PvPers feel kill them too often will prompt them to come onto these forums and QQ, asking Zenimax to nerf what got them killed.

What happens is Zenimax caves to the QQ, nerfs the stuff we can use to kill players, leaving those of us who care about winning and efficiency to instead use defensive orientated stuff and mechanics that are more subtle and thus aren't the target of QQ.

I am running the same amount of resource sustain as I did in homestead despite the avalanche of ZoS's nerfs because in my mind it is pointless to even try to go at it alone in cyrodiil with less than 1800 regen (at least on a templar since there is zero chance of escape). So all the nerfs have pushed me (and I'm sure a lot of players) to exactly the type of gameplay you (and I'm sure a lot of other players hate): sword and shield, less damage, drawn out fights.

It's a cycle that is crystal clear to anyone who has paid attention since launch and yet it boggles my mind that PvPers keep insisting that nerfs will solve the problems in cyrodiil.

Rex-Umbra

Bring battle spirit back to 25% 50% Is crazy.

themaddaedra

Joy_Division wrote: »

themaddaedra wrote: »

I know it's sometimes frustrating for others to die easily, but it will also mean that you can kill easily too. .

You're never going to convince the PvP community of this. Never. Every class, ability, gear set, ultimate, consumables, everything that PvPers feel kill them too often will prompt them to come onto these forums and QQ, asking Zenimax to nerf what got them killed.

What happens is Zenimax caves to the QQ, nerfs the stuff we can use to kill players, leaving those of us who care about winning and efficiency to instead use defensive orientated stuff and mechanics that are more subtle and thus aren't the target of QQ.

I am running the same amount of resource sustain as I did in homestead despite the avalanche of ZoS's nerfs because in my mind it is pointless to even try to go at it alone in cyrodiil with less than 1800 regen (at least on a templar since there is zero chance of escape). So all the nerfs have pushed me (and I'm sure a lot of players) to exactly the type of gameplay you (and I'm sure a lot of other players hate): sword and shield, less damage, drawn out fights.

It's a cycle that is crystal clear to anyone who has paid attention since launch and yet it boggles my mind that PvPers keep insisting that nerfs will solve the problems in cyrodiil.

^this.

Tan9oSuccka

Joy_Division wrote: »

themaddaedra wrote: »

I know it's sometimes frustrating for others to die easily, but it will also mean that you can kill easily too. .

You're never going to convince the PvP community of this. Never. Every class, ability, gear set, ultimate, consumables, everything that PvPers feel kill them too often will prompt them to come onto these forums and QQ, asking Zenimax to nerf what got them killed.

What happens is Zenimax caves to the QQ, nerfs the stuff we can use to kill players, leaving those of us who care about winning and efficiency to instead use defensive orientated stuff and mechanics that are more subtle and thus aren't the target of QQ.

I am running the same amount of resource sustain as I did in homestead despite the avalanche of ZoS's nerfs because in my mind it is pointless to even try to go at it alone in cyrodiil with less than 1800 regen (at least on a templar since there is zero chance of escape). So all the nerfs have pushed me (and I'm sure a lot of players) to exactly the type of gameplay you (and I'm sure a lot of other players hate): sword and shield, less damage, drawn out fights.

It's a cycle that is crystal clear to anyone who has paid attention since launch and yet it boggles my mind that PvPers keep insisting that nerfs will solve the problems in cyrodiil.

I don’t buy much of this.

They have hard statistical data. They know what sets are abused, which powers are over performing etc.

I suspect they don’t bother with the forum crying because it’s anecdotal in most cases.

The problem they encounter is due to not separating PVE and PVP balancing.

CyrusArya

jaschacasadiob16_ESO wrote: »

I remind you that in Cyrodill they prevent shortcutting through rivers using slaughterfishes. They could prevent jumping 3 or more floors similarly. Because let's face it, those people all they do is shield, vigor and execute one player... running up and jumping down. This gives you all the time you need to regen all since line of sight is continously broken.

People should play in arenas. No places to hide. Then tactics and skills come into play.

Lmao. Seems to me like you should drop eso and go join the army for some 3rd world country that sees active military combat. See how fun war is with realistic stipulations and physics. In all seriousness, this post makes it completely clear. You are a Xv1 zerg pug that gets small scaled on the regular. Ppl aren’t unkillable, you are just bad.

Don’t believe me? Go make a build similar to these “unkillable” specs you see and then go deep into enemy territory away from your zergs. Bring some friends to even, but no more than 3. Then get in some outnumbered fights and report back on how it went.

All the issues you’re crying about were addressed. Your suggestion only serve to hurt small scalers and empower skilless zerglets.

Hymzir

Last PVP session I came upon this scene, where one of these ultra-survivability ball groups was basically just trolling everyone. Looked like they got enough of farming for one day, and bunched up on a resource flag and just stood there mocking everyone else. There was 16 or so of them. Soon over 20 of my sides guys came to pound on them. Couple of minutes later 20 of the third alliances people showed up too. Both sides set up siege to bound on the ball group. I could see about 10 or so sieges deployed. And all those people kept pounding on the ball group. Constantly raining destruction on them. For several minutes. No one died. No one at all.

None of their health dipped below 80% despite all that incoming damage. It was beyond ridiculous. Then suddenly the stars aligned, one of them died to someone who, according to zone chat, had Vicious Death equipped and boom went the the ball group as their healers died.

And this was them just standing around doing nothing. If they'd been serious, they would've been running about on speed (the ball groups always have boosted speed on) and kept on farming everyone with stacked destro ultis.

They only died because they stood still and took all that damage from the siege units. If they were running about, most of that siege would have missed. And I've seen that too. 15 to 20 people running around on super speed with 6 to 8 stacked destro ultis constantly on, taking all incoming damage from 50 players and multiple sieges and still winning because none of them ever dies, while anyone they run past dies instantly to the stacked destro ultis. Oh, and of-course they are spamming roots stuns and snares while doing it too. Such fun.

I don't know how anyone can say with a straight face that there's nothing wrong with zergballs in Cyro.

JackDaniell

You need some Vicious Death in your life, have you tired a bomb build? They can wipe even organized zergs if you catch them at the right time.

umagon

The counter to damage reduction builds is two parts. One healing debuffs to offset the health recovery/healing vs incoming damage. The second part is bleeds and oblivion damage. Bleeds are not affected by resistances and oblivion damage cannot be mitigated.

Adapt and overcome or rot and die.

Funkopotamus

Everything went to hell the day CP was introduced into this game. I argued with many players on these very forums about it.

This was a terrible idea and it has not only cause balance nightmares for the devs in PVE content, but it will always make PVP complete TRASH! Throw in this damage reduction you only reinforce players drive to form zergballs.

CP was/is/prolly will be the WORST idea to ever be implemented into a decent MMO.

DynastyIXII

themaddaedra wrote: »

Have no idea how you guys could manage to relate this to be better players or crowded side's winning in a 10:1 fight.

Couldn't be further from the point. The point is THEY WON'T DIE no matter 1v1 or 1v10 or whatever.

PvE damage is being reduced saying it's for million hp bosses yet PvE sustain staying the same in Cyrodiil. Except shields which scale on damage. It has zero things to do with being good or being crowded. Sustain builds are way overperforming.

And of course people have right to complain about zergs. Zerg is not when one side is out numbered but when the other side is a fully survival-based train having %90 damage mitigation while running around.

I even have some friends who are in very famous zerg squads yet they said they do it because they don't know how to play alone. Calling them "better players" is way far from being sensible.

They will die if 10 competent people are beating on one. The thing is the people who are trying to kill the tank are all fighting like it's a 1v1 and so are giving the tank cc immunity at awful times so he can't be burst down. I had an experience and video of me 2v1 one of those tanks and killing him rather quick, while that same tank I've seen fighting 10 ppl for long periods of time. Me and my bud all we did was coordinate our stuns and burst. We used the games mechanics and won a fight people call impossible.

O_LYKOS

*yawn*

Ertthewolf

I have no problem killing people, including tanks in PvP. I also have no issues dying myself lol. Nobody is truly invincible unless you just don't have the rotation or build right for the fight. Two DK perma block tanks fight forever. Two gank blades win based on who sees who first. So seems pretty balanced to me. Burst and survival.

I enjoy a long battle, over a two move spam proc set you're dead fight.....

ostrapz

@themaddaedra i dont even post here anymore but the amount of nonsense in this thread is baffling, i understand yout point. Back before heavy was a thing you wore light or medium and thus noone could be extremely tanky without proper buff rotation ans/or Los. If some1 hit you with their full combo you could be killed even without ultimate. Now you drop your full combo with ultinate into someone and they can survive sometimes without making any defensive maneuvers. People run around on builds that are literally unkillable 1on1 if they go full defense but have plenty of dmg to kill some1 with help. The problem/difference from some previous patches is that offense has taken a backseat to defense. If you played defensive for too long before you would die quickly to pressure, now the player who is offensive usually is punished in the end because defensive play is smarter, more cost efficient, and simply easier. Idk if damage directly needs to be brought up but the defensive to offensive scales need to be tipped. My light armor plar can tank groups while my high damage stamblade build cant kill other "dps" players in some cases becuase of healing/blocking/overall damage/resource cost of defense v offense

Recremen

umagon wrote: »

The counter to damage reduction builds is two parts. One healing debuffs to offset the health recovery/healing vs incoming damage. The second part is bleeds and oblivion damage. Bleeds are not affected by resistances and oblivion damage cannot be mitigated.

Adapt and overcome or rot and die.

If you're fighting one person at a time or small groups then Oblivion damage is an okay counter, but if you're fighting large organized groups (you know, like the OP is talking about) then you're not going to get a lot of mileage out of it. Just look at the sources of Oblivion damage. You've got the weapon enchant and the heavy attack Knight Slayer set, then shieldbreaker if people are stacking shields (which large groups aren't anymore). None of that is really relevant in that type of play. Too much single-target focus, which is one of the ways these groups bait people.

Bleeds suffer similar issues, relying on attacks that simply don't have much place in large scale fights. You could run around trying to twin slash with axes, or you could run around trying to hit more than a couple people with cleave, or you could run that Pillar of Nirn set and hope for the best, but none of those are really strong contenders, and will probably be purged off anyway.

Obviously major defile is a given, but with the Earthgore meta your best AoE defile (Corrupting Pollen) is probably going to get negated exactly when the opposing team is getting its best heal, with purges going out at regular intervals.

Now, the group I run with doesn't have an issue dealing with these kinds of groups, but I can see this being a problem for the pug hordes. It's one thing to be able to beat waves of scubs using a combination of good coordination, movement, and builds, but it's another thing for the builds themselves to be such a deciding factor, especially when there aren't builds that a pug could run to make a reasonable impact against it.

Mazbt

You gotta recognize what roles certain players play in a group. The bomblades tend to break off from main ball for a few second to hit blobs from behind while main force comes in front. Focus the bomblades. Good heals, and purge support keeps groups topped off and that's why you see them as "unkillable". Identify supports, focus them down. Use destros, negates, fears, ccs, pick off people from the back if they get too far behind. It is super easy to make a mistake in these ball groups and things can fall apart quick. I've been on both sides quite a lot lately. Take advantage of mistakes.

umagon

Recremen wrote: »

umagon wrote: »

The counter to damage reduction builds is two parts. One healing debuffs to offset the health recovery/healing vs incoming damage. The second part is bleeds and oblivion damage. Bleeds are not affected by resistances and oblivion damage cannot be mitigated.

Adapt and overcome or rot and die.

If you're fighting one person at a time or small groups then Oblivion damage is an okay counter, but if you're fighting large organized groups (you know, like the OP is talking about) then you're not going to get a lot of mileage out of it. Just look at the sources of Oblivion damage. You've got the weapon enchant and the heavy attack Knight Slayer set, then shieldbreaker if people are stacking shields (which large groups aren't anymore). None of that is really relevant in that type of play. Too much single-target focus, which is one of the ways these groups bait people.

Bleeds suffer similar issues, relying on attacks that simply don't have much place in large scale fights. You could run around trying to twin slash with axes, or you could run around trying to hit more than a couple people with cleave, or you could run that Pillar of Nirn set and hope for the best, but none of those are really strong contenders, and will probably be purged off anyway.

Obviously major defile is a given, but with the Earthgore meta your best AoE defile (Corrupting Pollen) is probably going to get negated exactly when the opposing team is getting its best heal, with purges going out at regular intervals.

Now, the group I run with doesn't have an issue dealing with these kinds of groups, but I can see this being a problem for the pug hordes. It's one thing to be able to beat waves of scubs using a combination of good coordination, movement, and builds, but it's another thing for the builds themselves to be such a deciding factor, especially when there aren't builds that a pug could run to make a reasonable impact against it.

Major defile has multiple application sources and can enhanced with champion points, reapplication of it is not a problem. And you are comparing pick up groups vs organized groups using heavy damage reduction builds. If your organized group can handle other organized groups utilizing those setups then there is not a problem. As there is an effective counter.

Rainraven

Joy_Division wrote: »

themaddaedra wrote: »

I know it's sometimes frustrating for others to die easily, but it will also mean that you can kill easily too. .

You're never going to convince the PvP community of this. Never. Every class, ability, gear set, ultimate, consumables, everything that PvPers feel kill them too often will prompt them to come onto these forums and QQ, asking Zenimax to nerf what got them killed.

What happens is Zenimax caves to the QQ, nerfs the stuff we can use to kill players, leaving those of us who care about winning and efficiency to instead use defensive orientated stuff and mechanics that are more subtle and thus aren't the target of QQ.

I am running the same amount of resource sustain as I did in homestead despite the avalanche of ZoS's nerfs because in my mind it is pointless to even try to go at it alone in cyrodiil with less than 1800 regen (at least on a templar since there is zero chance of escape). So all the nerfs have pushed me (and I'm sure a lot of players) to exactly the type of gameplay you (and I'm sure a lot of other players hate): sword and shield, less damage, drawn out fights.

It's a cycle that is crystal clear to anyone who has paid attention since launch and yet it boggles my mind that PvPers keep insisting that nerfs will solve the problems in cyrodiil.

Same. The causes and effects are all right there, but no: nerf ultimates, that'll fix it. Nerf mist form, because that definitely won't mean yet more tanky guardy S&B blockathons.

Nobody wants to hear CP are a problem, either. Fingers in ears, lalalalal can't hear you L2P lalalala...

Recremen

umagon wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

umagon wrote: »

The counter to damage reduction builds is two parts. One healing debuffs to offset the health recovery/healing vs incoming damage. The second part is bleeds and oblivion damage. Bleeds are not affected by resistances and oblivion damage cannot be mitigated.

Adapt and overcome or rot and die.

If you're fighting one person at a time or small groups then Oblivion damage is an okay counter, but if you're fighting large organized groups (you know, like the OP is talking about) then you're not going to get a lot of mileage out of it. Just look at the sources of Oblivion damage. You've got the weapon enchant and the heavy attack Knight Slayer set, then shieldbreaker if people are stacking shields (which large groups aren't anymore). None of that is really relevant in that type of play. Too much single-target focus, which is one of the ways these groups bait people.

Bleeds suffer similar issues, relying on attacks that simply don't have much place in large scale fights. You could run around trying to twin slash with axes, or you could run around trying to hit more than a couple people with cleave, or you could run that Pillar of Nirn set and hope for the best, but none of those are really strong contenders, and will probably be purged off anyway.

Obviously major defile is a given, but with the Earthgore meta your best AoE defile (Corrupting Pollen) is probably going to get negated exactly when the opposing team is getting its best heal, with purges going out at regular intervals.

Now, the group I run with doesn't have an issue dealing with these kinds of groups, but I can see this being a problem for the pug hordes. It's one thing to be able to beat waves of scubs using a combination of good coordination, movement, and builds, but it's another thing for the builds themselves to be such a deciding factor, especially when there aren't builds that a pug could run to make a reasonable impact against it.

Major defile has multiple application sources and can enhanced with champion points, reapplication of it is not a problem. And you are comparing pick up groups vs organized groups using heavy damage reduction builds. If your organized group can handle other organized groups utilizing those setups then there is not a problem. As there is an effective counter.

Most major defile sources are single-target, Corrupting Pollen is the only AoE source I can think of off the top of my head that can be applied at a range. We could talk about single-target sources but that's only good for trying to pick apart stragglers, which is usually a gimme to begin with, and we could talk about all the melee-range AoE sources but that's a huge risk for only a little reward. Since Corrupting Pollen is ground-targeted it can get negated by earthgore, so while it's still very important in group play I wouldn't put it on the same scale of counterplay as something like shieldbreaker versus shield stacking. There's a huge disparity between the level of effect.

And I would argue it's still a problem even if my group is competitive against such builds because it gives too much protection against hordes of pugs. If you are making dynamic decisions to wipe such hordes over and over then that's one thing, but I don't think easy modes versus pugs in Cyrodiil-style combat leads to a healthy game atmosphere. Sure, some builds will always be better than others, but you should consider matters of scale, too. Running competitive traits and synergistic group composition should give an advantage over lesser-experienced players, but if the pugs are running good sets and good traits and still struggle to make a dent, then there is a larger issue with builds that should be considered. We can't stop examining the gameplay and looking for balance adjustments just because we feel like it's in a good place, it should be backed up by a complex analysis that includes player behavior. If pug hordes can never get a win against this kind of play and keep waiting for groups like mine to come in and clean up, then we're not going to be able to keep up a healthy server pop.

Solariken

Funkopotamus wrote: »

Everything went to hell the day CP was introduced into this game. I argued with many players on these very forums about it.

This was a terrible idea and it has not only cause balance nightmares for the devs in PVE content, but it will always make PVP complete TRASH! Throw in this damage reduction you only reinforce players drive to form zergballs.

CP was/is/prolly will be the WORST idea to ever be implemented into a decent MMO.

Nuff said

arkansas_ESO

jaschacasadiob16_ESO wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

OP, if a build is unkillable then it will be lacking in other areas. Take advantage of that. Yeesh.

As stated before, lack of any kind of phtsics and abusing the environment fully compensate. You should lose stamina for evey jump you do. Similarly, jumping down anything taller than tw ometers should severely damage you, if not CC you in place for some time.

I remind you that in Cyrodill they prevent shortcutting through rivers using slaughterfishes. They could prevent jumping 3 or more floors similarly. Because let's face it, those people all they do is shield, vigor and execute one player... running up and jumping down. This gives you all the time you need to regen all since line of sight is continously broken.

People should play in arenas. No places to hide. Then tactics and skills come into play.

So hiding behind a wall is broken in your opinion, but hiding behind 11 of your friends isn't?

jaschacasadiob16_ESO

CyrusArya wrote: »

Lmao. Seems to me like you should drop eso and go join the army for some 3rd world country that sees active military combat. See how fun war is with realistic stipulations and physics. In all seriousness, this post makes it completely clear. You are a Xv1 zerg pug that gets small scaled on the regular. Ppl aren’t unkillable, you are just bad. Don’t believe me? Go make a build similar to these “unkillable” specs you see and then go deep into enemy territory away from your zergs. Bring some friends to even, but no more than 3. Then get in some outnumbered fights and report back on how it went. All the issues you’re crying about were addressed. Your suggestion only serve to hurt small scalers and empower skilless zerglets.

So yo uare telling me that running up a tower to the top, spamming a shield and vigor, hitting one player, jumping down and repeating over and over is the player versus player you wanna pay for? What has this to do with player versus player? What has hiding in a bridge for hours waiting for someone to pass by and throw them down with a javelin to do with player versus player?

Roll dodging consumes stamina. Jumping does not.
Swimming kills you. Jumping down 10 meters does not.

They did not implement almost any kind of physics for obvious reasons, and thats performance of a real time system.

Abusing this is not pvp. Jumping around each others like rabbits is not pvp. There is no skill in doing any of this. You are just repeating a pattern slowly killing those many that do not know it (cos many ppl have better to do in life than jumping up and down a tower).

Life must be very sad to need this kind of gratifications.

jaschacasadiob16_ESO

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

So hiding behind a wall is broken in your opinion, but hiding behind 11 of your friends isn't?

It depends what you mean by hiding here.

hiding
1.act of concealing; concealment: to remain in hiding.
2. a secret refuge or means of concealment.

What has been discussed so far has little to do with hiding.