themaddaedra wrote: »Partially true. They can simply reduce the nonsense mitigation and it'd make the same affect. Of course nobody says that players should be able to hit 50k Assassin's Will procs in Cyrodiil, but this insane mitigation combined with %50 reduction is so nonsense and so boring tbh.
VaranisArano wrote: »
Then the Battle Spirit damage reduction is not causing the problem. Builds with high sustain + mitigation are your problem. Fix those, which ZOS has been trying to do.
Battle Spirit damage reduction is there so that everyone else doesn't HAVE to run builds with high sustain + mitigation in order to survive more than a couple seconds in PVP. Remove that damage reduction and you'll see MORE builds head to the high sustain + mitigation that you have a problem with, not less.
jaschacasadiob16_ESO wrote: »The real problem is that those people abuse physics and line of sight to regen stamina and heal. Put them in an arena and they go down quickly.
As stated before, lack of any kind of phtsics and abusing the environment fully compensate. You should lose stamina for evey jump you do. Similarly, jumping down anything taller than tw ometers should severely damage you, if not CC you in place for some time.ParaNostram wrote: »OP, if a build is unkillable then it will be lacking in other areas. Take advantage of that. Yeesh.
themaddaedra wrote: »
I know it's sometimes frustrating for others to die easily, but it will also mean that you can kill easily too. .
Joy_Division wrote: »
You're never going to convince the PvP community of this. Never. Every class, ability, gear set, ultimate, consumables, everything that PvPers feel kill them too often will prompt them to come onto these forums and QQ, asking Zenimax to nerf what got them killed.
What happens is Zenimax caves to the QQ, nerfs the stuff we can use to kill players, leaving those of us who care about winning and efficiency to instead use defensive orientated stuff and mechanics that are more subtle and thus aren't the target of QQ.
I am running the same amount of resource sustain as I did in homestead despite the avalanche of ZoS's nerfs because in my mind it is pointless to even try to go at it alone in cyrodiil with less than 1800 regen (at least on a templar since there is zero chance of escape). So all the nerfs have pushed me (and I'm sure a lot of players) to exactly the type of gameplay you (and I'm sure a lot of other players hate): sword and shield, less damage, drawn out fights.
It's a cycle that is crystal clear to anyone who has paid attention since launch and yet it boggles my mind that PvPers keep insisting that nerfs will solve the problems in cyrodiil.
Joy_Division wrote: »
You're never going to convince the PvP community of this. Never. Every class, ability, gear set, ultimate, consumables, everything that PvPers feel kill them too often will prompt them to come onto these forums and QQ, asking Zenimax to nerf what got them killed.
What happens is Zenimax caves to the QQ, nerfs the stuff we can use to kill players, leaving those of us who care about winning and efficiency to instead use defensive orientated stuff and mechanics that are more subtle and thus aren't the target of QQ.
I am running the same amount of resource sustain as I did in homestead despite the avalanche of ZoS's nerfs because in my mind it is pointless to even try to go at it alone in cyrodiil with less than 1800 regen (at least on a templar since there is zero chance of escape). So all the nerfs have pushed me (and I'm sure a lot of players) to exactly the type of gameplay you (and I'm sure a lot of other players hate): sword and shield, less damage, drawn out fights.
It's a cycle that is crystal clear to anyone who has paid attention since launch and yet it boggles my mind that PvPers keep insisting that nerfs will solve the problems in cyrodiil.
jaschacasadiob16_ESO wrote: »I remind you that in Cyrodill they prevent shortcutting through rivers using slaughterfishes. They could prevent jumping 3 or more floors similarly. Because let's face it, those people all they do is shield, vigor and execute one player... running up and jumping down. This gives you all the time you need to regen all since line of sight is continously broken.
People should play in arenas. No places to hide. Then tactics and skills come into play.
themaddaedra wrote: »Have no idea how you guys could manage to relate this to be better players or crowded side's winning in a 10:1 fight.
Couldn't be further from the point. The point is THEY WON'T DIE no matter 1v1 or 1v10 or whatever.
PvE damage is being reduced saying it's for million hp bosses yet PvE sustain staying the same in Cyrodiil. Except shields which scale on damage. It has zero things to do with being good or being crowded. Sustain builds are way overperforming.
And of course people have right to complain about zergs. Zerg is not when one side is out numbered but when the other side is a fully survival-based train having %90 damage mitigation while running around.
I even have some friends who are in very famous zerg squads yet they said they do it because they don't know how to play alone. Calling them "better players" is way far from being sensible.
The counter to damage reduction builds is two parts. One healing debuffs to offset the health recovery/healing vs incoming damage. The second part is bleeds and oblivion damage. Bleeds are not affected by resistances and oblivion damage cannot be mitigated.
Adapt and overcome or rot and die.
If you're fighting one person at a time or small groups then Oblivion damage is an okay counter, but if you're fighting large organized groups (you know, like the OP is talking about) then you're not going to get a lot of mileage out of it. Just look at the sources of Oblivion damage. You've got the weapon enchant and the heavy attack Knight Slayer set, then shieldbreaker if people are stacking shields (which large groups aren't anymore). None of that is really relevant in that type of play. Too much single-target focus, which is one of the ways these groups bait people.
Bleeds suffer similar issues, relying on attacks that simply don't have much place in large scale fights. You could run around trying to twin slash with axes, or you could run around trying to hit more than a couple people with cleave, or you could run that Pillar of Nirn set and hope for the best, but none of those are really strong contenders, and will probably be purged off anyway.
Obviously major defile is a given, but with the Earthgore meta your best AoE defile (Corrupting Pollen) is probably going to get negated exactly when the opposing team is getting its best heal, with purges going out at regular intervals.
Now, the group I run with doesn't have an issue dealing with these kinds of groups, but I can see this being a problem for the pug hordes. It's one thing to be able to beat waves of scubs using a combination of good coordination, movement, and builds, but it's another thing for the builds themselves to be such a deciding factor, especially when there aren't builds that a pug could run to make a reasonable impact against it.
Joy_Division wrote: »
You're never going to convince the PvP community of this. Never. Every class, ability, gear set, ultimate, consumables, everything that PvPers feel kill them too often will prompt them to come onto these forums and QQ, asking Zenimax to nerf what got them killed.
What happens is Zenimax caves to the QQ, nerfs the stuff we can use to kill players, leaving those of us who care about winning and efficiency to instead use defensive orientated stuff and mechanics that are more subtle and thus aren't the target of QQ.
I am running the same amount of resource sustain as I did in homestead despite the avalanche of ZoS's nerfs because in my mind it is pointless to even try to go at it alone in cyrodiil with less than 1800 regen (at least on a templar since there is zero chance of escape). So all the nerfs have pushed me (and I'm sure a lot of players) to exactly the type of gameplay you (and I'm sure a lot of other players hate): sword and shield, less damage, drawn out fights.
It's a cycle that is crystal clear to anyone who has paid attention since launch and yet it boggles my mind that PvPers keep insisting that nerfs will solve the problems in cyrodiil.
Major defile has multiple application sources and can enhanced with champion points, reapplication of it is not a problem. And you are comparing pick up groups vs organized groups using heavy damage reduction builds. If your organized group can handle other organized groups utilizing those setups then there is not a problem. As there is an effective counter.
Funkopotamus wrote: »Everything went to hell the day CP was introduced into this game. I argued with many players on these very forums about it.
This was a terrible idea and it has not only cause balance nightmares for the devs in PVE content, but it will always make PVP complete TRASH! Throw in this damage reduction you only reinforce players drive to form zergballs.
CP was/is/prolly will be the WORST idea to ever be implemented into a decent MMO.
jaschacasadiob16_ESO wrote: »As stated before, lack of any kind of phtsics and abusing the environment fully compensate. You should lose stamina for evey jump you do. Similarly, jumping down anything taller than tw ometers should severely damage you, if not CC you in place for some time.
I remind you that in Cyrodill they prevent shortcutting through rivers using slaughterfishes. They could prevent jumping 3 or more floors similarly. Because let's face it, those people all they do is shield, vigor and execute one player... running up and jumping down. This gives you all the time you need to regen all since line of sight is continously broken.
People should play in arenas. No places to hide. Then tactics and skills come into play.
Lmao. Seems to me like you should drop eso and go join the army for some 3rd world country that sees active military combat. See how fun war is with realistic stipulations and physics. In all seriousness, this post makes it completely clear. You are a Xv1 zerg pug that gets small scaled on the regular. Ppl aren’t unkillable, you are just bad. Don’t believe me? Go make a build similar to these “unkillable” specs you see and then go deep into enemy territory away from your zergs. Bring some friends to even, but no more than 3. Then get in some outnumbered fights and report back on how it went. All the issues you’re crying about were addressed. Your suggestion only serve to hurt small scalers and empower skilless zerglets.
It depends what you mean by hiding here.arkansas_ESO wrote: »So hiding behind a wall is broken in your opinion, but hiding behind 11 of your friends isn't?