Response to the Veteran Hard Mode Asylum Sanctorium Trial Exploit - Nov. 10

marcusthebearhunter

dont defend the exploiter perma banns the only way how it works too stop peopels too do that
chaeters at the wall
great job zenimax
x box eu it was the right peopels that get rekt

Meld777

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We will not be considering overturns for these account bans. They are permanent and final.

I don't believe you. Prove me wrong.

LadyNalcarya

This is awesome.
I have to say I'm impressed. I wasnt even sure they would get 72 hours ban.

WrathOfInnos

So now that it's fixed, can we find out exactly what was done? The couple of times I've seen him get stuck in the door, it was due to some being stuck inside and wiping while others were locked out. The boss will never reset if anyone is in the instance, but he will continue to attack those outside the room with AoEs, and I would bet player AoEs can still hit him.

Was this the exploit? Or was it more deliberate like the one in vMoL where people were getting outside the map where they could not be hit.

Timeoin

Can we please have their gamer tags posted, so we can be wary of these folks in future?

Timeoin

Turelus wrote: »

lynog85 wrote: »

Perma bans way too harsh imo. Zos are releasing unfinished content with these exploits only being possible because of THEM. I hope all accounts who done this get it overturned.

There is a nice little Terms of Service we all agree to when we join the game. In there we agree it's not their fault and if we abuse them we're subject to any punishment they deem fitting.

It's very simple to not abuse bugs like this, and it's very clear when you're doing it. These actions are for the better of the game.

Sigh. If only that were applicable to my government (Australia), where they are still fighting over dual-citizenships.

Taysa

I'm glad ZoS is finally taking cheating seriously. It's just sad that it took a few bosses that drop mostly mediocre junk to replace our nerfed Maelstrom weapons to get there.

So any word on when this banhammer is going to be wielded on the most notorious PvP hackers?

GrigorijMalahevich

Remove ban!!! No wait...

#nerfsorc!!! No wait...

Good job ZoS!!! There we go

lynog85

Smaxx wrote: »

lynog85 wrote: »

Perma bans way too harsh imo. Zos are releasing unfinished content with these exploits only being possible because of THEM. I hope all accounts who done this get it overturned.

Nope. Considering this is clearly something that's beyond broken and nothing you can "complete" by accident. If you fight a boss and he misses a few hits, fine. But just clearing an encounter without the boss ever being able to hit you sounds like just too much.

Its not cheat engine. Its broken because the developers are lazy and rush out incomplete content. It shouldnt even be possible to do these things.

lynog85

LiquidPony wrote: »

lynog85 wrote: »

Perma bans way too harsh imo. Zos are releasing unfinished content with these exploits only being possible because of THEM. I hope all accounts who done this get it overturned.

lol

The people who did this didn't accidentally exploit something.

They figured it out on normal and then went back and intentionally exploited it on vet HM.

And then some other people found out about it, got the details, and did the same thing. Some of those people are long-time players with 700+ CP who are regularly on the leaderboards. Who then were advertising in zone chats that they were selling vAS HM skin runs.

So on top of exploiting and getting a skin and title that all end game PvE guilds covet, they then tried to use the exploit to make a bunch of in-game money.

Can't imagine how dumb you have to be to risk a permanent ban for something like this.

But I'm sure they stashed a bunch of gold and gear in a guild bank somewhere and they'll be back by the end of the day on new accounts.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom it'd be a real shame if you guys took a look at guild bank deposit transactions from the banned accounts and made all that money disappear ... most of which was probably earned via exploits like this one anyway.

Good riddance. GG ZOS.

Totally missing my point. Paid content shouldnt beable to be exploited. If they developed it properly then these people would have no option but to do it legit.

Runs

I think

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

As a result, we have permanently banned all players – 34 accounts in all – who used the exploit to complete the kill and earn the special achievement and skin in this way. We will not be considering overturns for these account bans. They are permanent and final.

I think I am in love.

Belegnole

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom , Thank you and please pass the thanks to all involved.

LiquidPony

lynog85 wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

lynog85 wrote: »

Perma bans way too harsh imo. Zos are releasing unfinished content with these exploits only being possible because of THEM. I hope all accounts who done this get it overturned.

lol

The people who did this didn't accidentally exploit something.

They figured it out on normal and then went back and intentionally exploited it on vet HM.

And then some other people found out about it, got the details, and did the same thing. Some of those people are long-time players with 700+ CP who are regularly on the leaderboards. Who then were advertising in zone chats that they were selling vAS HM skin runs.

So on top of exploiting and getting a skin and title that all end game PvE guilds covet, they then tried to use the exploit to make a bunch of in-game money.

Can't imagine how dumb you have to be to risk a permanent ban for something like this.

But I'm sure they stashed a bunch of gold and gear in a guild bank somewhere and they'll be back by the end of the day on new accounts.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom it'd be a real shame if you guys took a look at guild bank deposit transactions from the banned accounts and made all that money disappear ... most of which was probably earned via exploits like this one anyway.

Good riddance. GG ZOS.

Totally missing my point. Paid content shouldnt beable to be exploited. If they developed it properly then these people would have no option but to do it legit.

I didn't miss it. I just think it's a poor point.

All complex software has bugs. Critical multi-million dollar software that is subject to the most stringent engineering standards has bugs. Every software engineering student has to study the Therac-25 disaster or the Mars Climate Orbiter disaster or other similar incidents.

The ToS lays out exactly why this behavior resulted in bans. These people were aware that they were exploiting and even tried (and perhaps succeeded) to profit from it.

ol_BANK_lo

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Recently, a small number of players discovered a way to kill Saint Olms + 2 (Hard mode in Veteran Asylum Sanctorium) from safely outside his room where he could not attack them. This is not only unintended and an exploit, but it cheapens the time and work put in by players who have legitimately beat this fight and earn a very difficult achievement and reward. As a result, we have permanently banned all players – 34 accounts in all – who used the exploit to complete the kill and earn the special achievement and skin in this way. We will not be considering overturns for these account bans. They are permanent and final.

We are working on a fix for this exploit, but we will not be able to deploy it until Monday at the earliest. We will be watching things closely over the weekend. After we deploy the fix on Monday, we will do another audit of kills for this fight. Be warned: we will permanently ban any additional players who use the exploit over the weekend.

Best response I've heard from ZOS yet. Thank you. I hope this is how all responses will be.

Buffler

Like when ZOS perma banned all the banker survey glitches! Lol

Nevermind mind a few elitists getting butthurt, fix the load screens!

StackonClown

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Recently, a small number of players discovered a way to kill Saint Olms + 2 (Hard mode in Veteran Asylum Sanctorium) from safely outside his room where he could not attack them. This is not only unintended and an exploit, but it cheapens the time and work put in by players who have legitimately beat this fight and earn a very difficult achievement and reward. As a result, we have permanently banned all players – 34 accounts in all – who used the exploit to complete the kill and earn the special achievement and skin in this way. We will not be considering overturns for these account bans. They are permanent and final.

We are working on a fix for this exploit, but we will not be able to deploy it until Monday at the earliest. We will be watching things closely over the weekend. After we deploy the fix on Monday, we will do another audit of kills for this fight. Be warned: we will permanently ban any additional players who use the exploit over the weekend.

Hi @ZOS_JessicaFolsom - great job!

Wasnt even aware of this exploit and probably 99.9% of the player base wasnt but great to see you were able to respond to whoever reported this so swiftly and unequivocally. and now you will be 'watching over the weekend' - wow! Can you please watch out for other cheating so closely also?. Now the people that got the skin through the normal way can wear it happily!

Considering some of the gleeful updates in this thread, it seems there are a small number of small players who are now delighting in your actions, so bravo.

Anyways... Since you have shown great transparency in naming a precise number of accounts that were banned for this so far, 34 can you:

>>Please provide a similar update for Cheat Engine?<<

How many players are being banned for using Cheat Engine?
I sincerely hope its more than zero, can you please give us a precise number for 2017?

I dare say more players care about Cheat Engine detection and banning than the above skin exploit, but I could be wrong.

Looking forward to a really detailed update about overall cheating and not just specific examples like this skin (need to look it up when i get around to it - Skins are meh for me, sry)

Also, there is an overall cheating thread that has been open for 17 months with no input from @ZOS for a really long time . Any reason why that thread is being essentially ignored but such dramatic urgency is being placed on things like this skin?

WuffyCerulei

lynog85 wrote: »

Smaxx wrote: »

lynog85 wrote: »

Perma bans way too harsh imo. Zos are releasing unfinished content with these exploits only being possible because of THEM. I hope all accounts who done this get it overturned.

Nope. Considering this is clearly something that's beyond broken and nothing you can "complete" by accident. If you fight a boss and he misses a few hits, fine. But just clearing an encounter without the boss ever being able to hit you sounds like just too much.

Its not cheat engine. Its broken because the developers are lazy and rush out incomplete content. It shouldnt even be possible to do these things.

Games and their DLCs aren't perfect. An invisible wall may be slightly too short, or something like that. It's not humanly possible to find every. single. bug.

Taysa

StackonClown wrote: »

>>Please provide a similar update for Cheat Engine?<<

How many players are being banned for using Cheat Engine?
I sincerely hope its more than zero, can you please give us a precise number for 2017?

I dare say more players care about Cheat Engine detection and banning than the above skin exploit, but I could be wrong.

Looking forward to a really detailed update about overall cheating and not just specific examples like this skin (need to look it up when i get around to it - Skins are meh for me, sry)

Also, there is an overall cheating thread that has been open for 17 months with no input from @ZOS for a really long time . Any reason why that thread is being essentially ignored but such dramatic urgency is being placed on things like this skin?

Quoting because this needs to be addressed.

So how about it, @ZOS?

INHUMANENATION

How people can rejoice over the permanent bans of another player is disturbing. It's an unfortunate situation. Letter of the law can be used or turned on any one of us to justify permanent bans as the Terms of Service disallow alot of actions. There hasn't been a game I've played that couldn't be exploited and some people enjoy testing limits in games as much as some enjoy any legit aspect. A month long ban for first offenders would have been more prudent.

Thank you for punishing the offenders but where is the tolerance or lesson to be learned? Lost in all this outrage *** and zero tolerance is the chance at redemption. I do truly appreciate the developers need to send a stern warning, I just hope this wasn't done to appease the blood thirsty mobs.

If you got banned and youre reading this. Sorry buddy.

kyle.wilson

INHUMANENATION wrote: »

How people can rejoice over the permanent bans of another player is disturbing. It's an unfortunate situation. Letter of the law can be used or turned on any one of us to justify permanent bans as the Terms of Service disallow alot of actions. There hasn't been a game I've played that couldn't be exploited and some people enjoy testing limits in games as much as some enjoy any legit aspect. A month long ban for first offenders would have been more prudent.

Thank you for punishing the offenders but where is the tolerance or lesson to be learned? Lost in all this outrage *** and zero tolerance is the chance at redemption. I do truly appreciate the developers need to send a stern warning, I just hope this wasn't done to appease the blood thirsty mobs.

If you got banned and youre reading this. Sorry buddy.

Considering that ZOS's bans in the past have been so lenient,, it has encouraged players to exploit and cheat.
They gave 3 day breaks to the writ exploiters, and short bans for the Cheat engine users.
They have learned that unless they come down hard, the player base here will continue to exploit.
It's unfortunate that your friends were caught up in this, but maybe this'll deter the next people from attempting it.
Sometimes you just have to make an example of some people.

Karivaa

How about you fix cyrodiil loading screens as quickly as you did this???

Cinbri

1 week later those permabanned accounts will be unbanned.. Only for 2k crowns in crownstore

INHUMANENATION

Timeoin wrote: »

Can we please have their gamer tags posted, so we can be wary of these folks in future?

@Devs, Why this thread wasn't locked initially baffles me. Look at this guy above! Asking for gamertags? When will it end? I long for the days when these issues were handled discreetly, confidentially and professionally.

@Timeoin They have been permanently banned. What do you have to worry about in the future? Shame on all the people in here gleefully celebrating other peoples punishments. Whereas the people exploiting are unknown, those of you that are in here piling and rejoicing at the expense of those banned, are not.

Lock the thread and for the record, Zero Tolerance is actually the worst form of intolerance. I hope the trend of throwing my fellow players to the wolves to appease the losers that take joy out of things like this ends. The players broke the ToS but have also made you aware of a bug in the programming. There could have been a lot better ways to handle this and leaving this thread open for discussion doesn't paint the best picture about depth of character in the powers that be.

INHUMANENATION

kyle.wilson wrote: »

INHUMANENATION wrote: »

How people can rejoice over the permanent bans of another player is disturbing. It's an unfortunate situation. Letter of the law can be used or turned on any one of us to justify permanent bans as the Terms of Service disallow alot of actions. There hasn't been a game I've played that couldn't be exploited and some people enjoy testing limits in games as much as some enjoy any legit aspect. A month long ban for first offenders would have been more prudent.

Thank you for punishing the offenders but where is the tolerance or lesson to be learned? Lost in all this outrage *** and zero tolerance is the chance at redemption. I do truly appreciate the developers need to send a stern warning, I just hope this wasn't done to appease the blood thirsty mobs.

If you got banned and youre reading this. Sorry buddy.

Considering that ZOS's bans in the past have been so lenient,, it has encouraged players to exploit and cheat.
They gave 3 day breaks to the writ exploiters, and short bans for the Cheat engine users.
They have learned that unless they come down hard, the player base here will continue to exploit.
It's unfortunate that your friends were caught up in this, but maybe this'll deter the next people from attempting it.
Sometimes you just have to make an example of some people.

I honestly don't know a single person this has affected if you trust me. I fully appreciate your point but you have numerous instances of exploits still in game that have not been dealt with as harshly and that's why people will try. I won't be foolish to list a single one but most of you know of a time the intended mechanics were exploited purposefully and unless rules are enforced equally it creates a double standard. Some of the worst exploits to have happened three years ago still have lasting effects. Remember for those of us on console the pig farm? How people came directly from the PC or saw it on the PC and how long did it take for them to address it? Yet it drove the price of wax below 2K and saturated the market. Survey glitches ruined the trader bids... 1st time offenders shouldn't get a perma ban. Thats all. Let the pile on continue, im done with trying to be the voice of reason. No offense to you though. I do appreciate your point and yes examples should be made.

INHUMANENATION

kyle.wilson wrote: »

I really think anyone truly upset over the perma-bans, has either been banned or will be soon enough.

You're wrong. I didn't even know about this until I read it on the forums. It's upsetting because ZoS allows this type of mob mentality and by leaving this thread unlocked actually encourages it. Noone is arguing what was done wasn't an exploit. The severity is the issue for REASONABLE people like myself. I've yet to play a single game that hasn't been exploited and I've yet to see a perma ban for a first offence. It sets a horrible precedent and I hope for your sake you don't find yourself at the wrong end of the knife.

Now to scour youtube/twitch for exploits to make a case to get everyone permanently banned for exploiting any mechanic's intended purpose. I mean lets stoke this fire to the sky and watch it all burn right?

Timeoin

INHUMANENATION wrote: »

Timeoin wrote: »

Can we please have their gamer tags posted, so we can be wary of these folks in future?

@Devs, Why this thread wasn't locked initially baffles me. Look at this guy above! Asking for gamertags? When will it end? I long for the days when these issues were handled discreetly, confidentially and professionally.

@Timeoin They have been permanently banned. What do you have to worry about in the future? Shame on all the people in here gleefully celebrating other peoples punishments. Whereas the people exploiting are unknown, those of you that are in here piling and rejoicing at the expense of those banned, are not.

Lock the thread and for the record, Zero Tolerance is actually the worst form of intolerance. I hope the trend of throwing my fellow players to the wolves to appease the losers that take joy out of things like this ends. The players broke the ToS but have also made you aware of a bug in the programming. There could have been a lot better ways to handle this and leaving this thread open for discussion doesn't paint the best picture about depth of character in the powers that be.

I have very good reason for request...

So that the cheaters can be known on other platforms (such as the Facebook groups) and we can know to ignore them in future.

White wabbit

Personally I think their names should be posted in each home factions city so people know the type of people they where playing with

Timeoin

White wabbit wrote: »

Personally I think their names should be posted in each home factions city so people know the type of people they where playing with

^^ that. For one thing, many know people's names outside, so knowing who they are means you can avoid them in future.

StackonClown

INHUMANENATION wrote: »

kyle.wilson wrote: »

I really think anyone truly upset over the perma-bans, has either been banned or will be soon enough.

You're wrong. I didn't even know about this until I read it on the forums. It's upsetting because ZoS allows this type of mob mentality and by leaving this thread unlocked actually encourages it. Noone is arguing what was done wasn't an exploit. The severity is the issue for REASONABLE people like myself. I've yet to play a single game that hasn't been exploited and I've yet to see a perma ban for a first offence. It sets a horrible precedent and I hope for your sake you don't find yourself at the wrong end of the knife.

Now to scour youtube/twitch for exploits to make a case to get everyone permanently banned for exploiting any mechanic's intended purpose. I mean lets stoke this fire to the sky and watch it all burn right?

Its also curious that some youtubers are in particular very celebratory about this action? If it means so much fine - then please become just as passionate about ALL types of cheating and exploiting including, yes you guessed it, CE!

This seems to be a new precedent for perma-ban with 'no further discussion'.

Would be great if @Zose explains why this deserves such a severe punihsment, but even the PVP meteor spammers had their accounts re-instated? I hope its not because of *who* was whining about this Assylum exploit?!

Timeoin

https://youtu.be/ZnYlku5pxKI

Skip to ~12m in. Tbey literally on there - cheat & be banned.