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Bow Ganker Build Question?

The_Protagonist
The_Protagonist
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I need advice for PvP as I mostly PvE, I know that in PvE coming close to pen cap is the best way to maximize damage. I know that I need to be in battle before I chug a weapon pot, with the changes to CA.

Which combination gives max damage potential?
Edited by The_Protagonist on October 29, 2017 11:00AM

Bow Ganker Build Question? 19 votes

Clever Alchemist + Marksman + Kra'gh
5%
ak_pvp 1 vote
Clever Alchemist + Spriggan + Kra'gh
10%
JierdanitGaunterODim 2 votes
Some other combination, tell me about it
84%
Arobainlolo_01b16_ESOIruil_ESOpdebie64b16_ESOtechnohictwnhnyStreegaDDukemelek-tausSpiderKnightIlCanis_LupuslINarvuntienagrr70Deep_01pepe1337A_G_G_R_O 16 votes
  • Narvuntien
    Narvuntien
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    Some other combination, tell me about it
    They stopped clever alchemist from working for bow ganks this patch... you'll have to use something else.
    Also if you play on PC everyone uses an addon that counters your build because they get a warning whenever is an arrow coming.

    In short *shrug* I don't know I was using clever alchemist and strenght of automation.

    Someone was going around swearing Archer's mind is the best, I have never done DSA to get it so I don't know, I am concerned about how much crit stats it has that I don't want.

    Hundings rage is okay, just a good all around set. Morag Tong seems like a popular bow gank set, but I'd have to reset all my skills.
  • Mickydanz
    Mickydanz
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    try automaton + x set get the psychical snipe morph not poison.
    Cropsford Mayor
  • The_Protagonist
    The_Protagonist
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    Narvuntien wrote: »
    They stopped clever alchemist from working for bow ganks this patch... you'll have to use something else.
    Also if you play on PC everyone uses an addon that counters your build because they get a warning whenever is an arrow coming.

    In short *shrug* I don't know I was using clever alchemist and strenght of automation.

    Someone was going around swearing Archer's mind is the best, I have never done DSA to get it so I don't know, I am concerned about how much crit stats it has that I don't want.

    Hundings rage is okay, just a good all around set. Morag Tong seems like a popular bow gank set, but I'd have to reset all my skills.

    The rotation with CA would require starting battle then chugging a potion to proc the WD/SD buff.

    Strength of Automaton would require taking all non poison damage option on snipe and arrow spray, like wise as you said Morag Tong would require taking poison abilities.

    Archer's Mind is not as strong as it was before since the crit damage is now additive rather than multiplicative. BTW Archer's Mind is easily available on guild stores.

    We can start with Poison Arrow from stealth as the cast is instant then follow up with cast time attacks like snipe.

    I was thinking about about Hundings, but the use of Impen in PvP makes 2 crit stats less valuable.

    Thank you for your input.
  • The_Protagonist
    The_Protagonist
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    Mickydanz wrote: »
    try automaton + x set get the psychical snipe morph not poison.

    Using the Physical Morph is more useful in longer group fights, the poison morph is better for more burst damage, which is what is required for a ganker.

    Thanks for your input.
  • Sixty5
    Sixty5
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    ✭✭
    Try Morag Tong plus Marksman + Kragh/Velidreth

    Couple of nice big percentage amps to your damage.
    Lord and Savior of the Association of Serious S***posters.

    I play a character called "Gives Me Wood Elf" because I am a mature and sensible person.
    Stam Sorc main in Battlegrounds
  • The_Protagonist
    The_Protagonist
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    Sixty5 wrote: »
    Try Morag Tong plus Marksman + Kragh/Velidreth

    Couple of nice big percentage amps to your damage.
    With poison morphs, Moral Tong is quite effective. 18% more damage using seems very strong, I will test this setup.

    Thanks for your input.
  • JAwtunes
    JAwtunes
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    Spriggan, Kragh&Velidreth, Food that gives max Stam and Mag recovery and Shadow Walker on back bar for me.

    Automaton is pretty poor on bow imo as it only works for physical damage, and Lethal arrow (Defile)/ Poison Injection are great.

    Morag Tong is ok but it wont proc for your first hit (at least that used to be the case), which will probably be your main damage from Lethal Arrow. Its ok for the Poison Injection and poison ticks and has good 2pc-4pc bonuses.

    Marksman is good due to the damage and recovery bonuses.

    I actually think TBS is reasonable now they have increase mundus effects. I ran this with Spriggans and Lover/ Warrior stones (all divines) and did huge damage and had decent health and magicka, which is always nice.
  • IlCanis_LupuslI
    IlCanis_LupuslI
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    Some other combination, tell me about it
    I need advice for PvP as I mostly PvE, I know that in PvE coming close to pen cap is the best way to maximize damage. I know that I need to be in battle before I chug a weapon pot, with the changes to CA.

    Which combination gives max damage potential?

    @The_Protagonist
    Use 5x Spriggans, 5x marksman, 1x kraig im hitting people for 20k+ lethal arrows
    Cp 1404
    Xbox-EU-AD

    Khajiit Stamsorc Werewolf, Flawless Conquerer (1st attempt ww form during the entire dungeon) main
    Khajiit(Master Race) Stamplar Werewolf, Flawless Conquerer
    Khajiit Stamina Nightblade(BiS for cuteness)-Flawless Conquerer crafter

    Khajiit Stam dk, Flawless conquerer, 2nd attempt
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQhCmVHwZioVyTEDberxGtA?view_as=public
    Werewolf Veteran player, Since Wrathstone-DLC "Raid-Wolf", 52k dps with fracture
  • The_Protagonist
    The_Protagonist
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    JAwtunes wrote: »
    Spriggan, Kragh&Velidreth, Food that gives max Stam and Mag recovery and Shadow Walker on back bar for me.

    Automaton is pretty poor on bow imo as it only works for physical damage, and Lethal arrow (Defile)/ Poison Injection are great.

    Morag Tong is ok but it wont proc for your first hit (at least that used to be the case), which will probably be your main damage from Lethal Arrow. Its ok for the Poison Injection and poison ticks and has good 2pc-4pc bonuses.

    Marksman is good due to the damage and recovery bonuses.

    I actually think TBS is reasonable now they have increase mundus effects. I ran this with Spriggans and Lover/ Warrior stones (all divines) and did huge damage and had decent health and magicka, which is always nice.

    I have been thinking of trying out TBS with Lover / Warrior, as these were buffed, but was afraid of trying it, as I would have to gold my armor out for max benefit, perhaps I should try it in PTS and then decide. And is it safe to assume that Spriggan jewelry was enchanted with WD?

    The combinations in case of TBS (with lover/warrior) that could also work would be Sheer Venom (procs on first tick of PI) and Marksman (as you said for resource sustain).

    Morag Tong has to be procced by heavy attack from stealth weaved with PI.
  • The_Protagonist
    The_Protagonist
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I need advice for PvP as I mostly PvE, I know that in PvE coming close to pen cap is the best way to maximize damage. I know that I need to be in battle before I chug a weapon pot, with the changes to CA.

    Which combination gives max damage potential?

    @The_Protagonist
    Use 5x Spriggans, 5x marksman, 1x kraig im hitting people for 20k+ lethal arrows

    That's Impressive, I have those sets and I can try this out, Thank you for sharing. +1 insightful for giving the damage done value.
  • pdebie64b16_ESO
    pdebie64b16_ESO
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    Some other combination, tell me about it
    Automaton, Hunding, Kena with warrior mundus is what i use.
  • The_Protagonist
    The_Protagonist
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    Automaton, Hunding, Kena with warrior mundus is what i use.

    The crit from Hunding's is not that useful in PvP, but the WD is very useful.

    Automaton would require me to change from Lethal Arrow to Focused Aim, which reduces the potential of burst, Focused Aim provides minor fracture and increases the range, but I lose the defile defuff and the extra damage which I get from Lethal Arrow.
    Thanks your input.
  • DDuke
    DDuke
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    Some other combination, tell me about it
    Morag+Marksman+Asylum Bow

    Lethal Arrow->Acid Spray (lands first) for 20k+ Lethal Arrows.
    Edited by DDuke on November 8, 2017 11:39AM
    Decimus (European Megaserver)
  • The_Protagonist
    The_Protagonist
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    DDuke wrote: »
    Morag+Marksman+Asylum Bow

    Lethal Arrow->Acid Spray (lands first) for 20k+ Lethal Arrows.

    Yes I have tested this and 20K+ is non crit damage. More than a ganker style, this is a very potent 1v1 build.

    Appreciate your input.
  • JAwtunes
    JAwtunes
    ✭✭✭

    JAwtunes wrote: »
    Spriggan, Kragh&Velidreth, Food that gives max Stam and Mag recovery and Shadow Walker on back bar for me.

    Automaton is pretty poor on bow imo as it only works for physical damage, and Lethal arrow (Defile)/ Poison Injection are great.

    Morag Tong is ok but it wont proc for your first hit (at least that used to be the case), which will probably be your main damage from Lethal Arrow. Its ok for the Poison Injection and poison ticks and has good 2pc-4pc bonuses.

    Marksman is good due to the damage and recovery bonuses.

    I actually think TBS is reasonable now they have increase mundus effects. I ran this with Spriggans and Lover/ Warrior stones (all divines) and did huge damage and had decent health and magicka, which is always nice.

    I have been thinking of trying out TBS with Lover / Warrior, as these were buffed, but was afraid of trying it, as I would have to gold my armor out for max benefit, perhaps I should try it in PTS and then decide. And is it safe to assume that Spriggan jewelry was enchanted with WD?

    The combinations in case of TBS (with lover/warrior) that could also work would be Sheer Venom (procs on first tick of PI) and Marksman (as you said for resource sustain).

    Morag Tong has to be procced by heavy attack from stealth weaved with PI.

    Go for it. You can get a feel for how it plays without using gold mats on your armour. I think you get about 4k pen and 350 WD (im at work so cant check). If you run food then you will kill most targets quickly. BTW I would suggest that most builds mentioned above will hit 20k+ on Lethal Arrow against the right target. That said, killing with a good bow combo isn't too hard. Escaping is where it gets difficult, so you need to get comfortable with you back bar skills and maybe even consider back baring a utility set that gives Stam and WD for 2pc-4pc.

    The only way to know if it suits you is to try it in Cryro. I was playing with Leeching Strikes recently, its an interesting way to keep your stam at 100% while sneaking... I cant get on with it though, too clunky for me.

    Yes WD everywhere.

    I have no DLC so never tried Sheer Venom. That's the one set i wish i had. I did try the Vicecannon set a while back but the damage was terrible.

    Marksman is a great set as you can easily drop drinks if you run that. I would use with Sprig, but they are both medium which means you would lose some S/M/H if you have the undaunted passive.

    If you're a NB then you probably don't want to build a combo that opens with Heavy Attack. The damage from heavy was nerfed a while back, and it was already returning less than snipe morphs. You want to try to find a combo that opens with snipe imo, which is why i dropped M Tong about a year ago.

    These are just my thoughts/ experiences. Good luck testing!
  • firedrgn
    firedrgn
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    Depends on,what class. You can't, really make up,for stealth passive on,bosmer or kajihht. Also, nightblade gets a 10% bonus on top of that. Then hit the mage guild and proc for another 20%.
    Fighter guild ultimate. Plus stack fighter guild skills for another 17% .
    Stack weapon damage and have fun. Also hundings with warrior stone.
  • Arobain
    Arobain
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    Some other combination, tell me about it
    your own design
  • Narvuntien
    Narvuntien
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    Some other combination, tell me about it
    I am running hundings and strenght of automation with the warrior stone. Focused aim for 32Kish on a dummy

    Now it appears that Hundings + Spriggans does more damage because of the penetration. 35Kish on a dummy.

    I am about to log in and go buy an archer's mind bow to test that as well.

    I would be interested what I could do if I funnel more cp points into penetration
    Edited by Narvuntien on November 9, 2017 4:05AM
  • firedrgn
    firedrgn
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    Narvuntien wrote: »
    I am running hundings and strenght of automation with the warrior stone. Focused aim for 32Kish on a dummy

    Now it appears that Hundings + Spriggans does more damage because of the penetration. 35Kish on a dummy.

    I am about to log in and go buy an archer's mind bow to test that as well.

    I would be interested what I could do if I funnel more cp points into penetration

    Depends,on, your pen and what your trying to,do. I would put cp into pen and mighty .

  • firedrgn
    firedrgn
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    I guess ill break out my Nb and see what I,can do with clock work
  • The_Protagonist
    The_Protagonist
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    Narvuntien wrote: »
    I am running hundings and strenght of automation with the warrior stone. Focused aim for 32Kish on a dummy

    Now it appears that Hundings + Spriggans does more damage because of the penetration. 35Kish on a dummy.

    I am about to log in and go buy an archer's mind bow to test that as well.

    I would be interested what I could do if I funnel more cp points into penetration

    Due to the fact that there are diminishing returns in CP tree, there is a limit to how many are really effective, because as @firedrgn said, it depends on what we are trying to do. In PvE we can min/max as the values are fixed at 9100 for overland and 18200 for dungeons, but in PvP the value of mitigation is volatile, some will have it high and other will have it low.

    I keep pen in CP at 3k and an overall of 10k to 11k works very well, I use the rest of the points in Mighty, Thaumaturge and Master at Arms.
  • Narvuntien
    Narvuntien
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    Some other combination, tell me about it
    Atm i have a kraghs shoulder and not a velidreth/kena one. So i have a little extra pen from that. I also run mark target at least for dummy tests. Its in my flex slot, shuffle or fear, are my other options.

    Since i am a bow ganker i have funneled a lot of points into master at arms atm. Perhaps i should get out a calcuator and work out what the optimal balance of master at arms. Crit dam, penetration and raw dam is
  • The_Protagonist
    The_Protagonist
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    Narvuntien wrote: »
    Atm i have a kraghs shoulder and not a velidreth/kena one. So i have a little extra pen from that. I also run mark target at least for dummy tests. Its in my flex slot, shuffle or fear, are my other options.

    Since i am a bow ganker i have funneled a lot of points into master at arms atm. Perhaps i should get out a calcuator and work out what the optimal balance of master at arms. Crit dam, penetration and raw dam is

    That honestly is the best way to do it, a little boring as there are quite a few variables to consider (gear included) for min/maxing, but rewarding in the same time. Please do share what you found to be optimal.
  • melek-taus
    melek-taus
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    Some other combination, tell me about it
    Sixty5 wrote: »
    Try Morag Tong plus Marksman + Kragh/Velidreth

    Couple of nice big percentage amps to your damage.

    I have been using this combo for over a year on my bow ganker and nothing comes close to this. Tried Spriggans, Archers, Hawk and more but Morag + Marks with Veli/ Kragh is the best combo for a bow build. It however depends who I am facing, as I change to Spriggan + Marks when facing Smurfs and I change to Morag + Marks when facing banana's.
    EU/PC
    Malek Taus - VR16 Khajit Stamina GankKnight -

    Will gank for Skooma....
  • IlCanis_LupuslI
    IlCanis_LupuslI
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    Some other combination, tell me about it
    Narvuntien wrote: »
    I am running hundings and strenght of automation with the warrior stone. Focused aim for 32Kish on a dummy

    Now it appears that Hundings + Spriggans does more damage because of the penetration. 35Kish on a dummy.

    I am about to log in and go buy an archer's mind bow to test that as well.

    I would be interested what I could do if I funnel more cp points into penetration

    Mine is at 50k on a npc....
    Cp 1404
    Xbox-EU-AD

    Khajiit Stamsorc Werewolf, Flawless Conquerer (1st attempt ww form during the entire dungeon) main
    Khajiit(Master Race) Stamplar Werewolf, Flawless Conquerer
    Khajiit Stamina Nightblade(BiS for cuteness)-Flawless Conquerer crafter

    Khajiit Stam dk, Flawless conquerer, 2nd attempt
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQhCmVHwZioVyTEDberxGtA?view_as=public
    Werewolf Veteran player, Since Wrathstone-DLC "Raid-Wolf", 52k dps with fracture
  • Narvuntien
    Narvuntien
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    Some other combination, tell me about it
    Okay ran a bunch of new tests

    Strenght of automation+ Hundings rage: Focused Aim damage: 32 458
    Strenght of automation + Spriggans: Focused Aim damage: 34 495
    Strenght of automation + Archer's Mind: Focused Aim damage: 33 597

    I am too much of a cheapskate to Buy Spriggans jewerly but I am pretty sure Spriggans + Hundings is worse when i tried it on the PTS, SotA gives more WD than Hundings. Hundings is better for healing and such.

    In defense of Hundings rage, I have a bunch less stamina because I have tri stat enchants on helmet and gaurds. To get my hp stats to 17K.

    That NPC must have 0 resistances :s or my backyard isn't big enough to get max damage from the bow distance passive. I have no idea how you'd get 50K with a single shot... 50K is my Onslaught (2H) damage.

    My tests seems to suggest that Archer's mind might actually be the most damage.. but I want to find a punching bag to test how this interacts with Inpen.
    Edited by Narvuntien on November 9, 2017 12:14PM
  • SodanTok
    SodanTok
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    ✭✭
    Narvuntien wrote: »
    Okay ran a bunch of new tests

    Strenght of automation+ Hundings rage: Focused Aim damage: 32 458
    Strenght of automation + Spriggans: Focused Aim damage: 34 495
    Strenght of automation + Archer's Mind: Focused Aim damage: 33 597

    I am too much of a cheapskate to Buy Spriggans jewerly but I am pretty sure Spriggans + Hundings is worse when i tried it on the PTS, SotA gives more WD than Hundings. Hundings is better for healing and such.

    In defense of Hundings rage, I have a bunch less stamina because I have tri stat enchants on helmet and gaurds. To get my hp stats to 17K.

    That NPC must have 0 resistances :s or my backyard isn't big enough to get max damage from the bow distance passive. I have no idea how you'd get 50K with a single shot... 50K is my Onslaught (2H) damage.

    My tests seems to suggest that Archer's mind might actually be the most damage.. but I want to find a punching bag to test how this interacts with Inpen.

    You cant really test the damage on dummy. Penetration works differently vs them than vs players. If you are attacking from stealth, you get bonus damage vs dummy and not vs players.

    Btw you need I think 25m distance to get max from bow passive, so slightly less than the range of poison injection.
    Edited by SodanTok on November 9, 2017 12:18PM
    PC | EU | AD
  • firedrgn
    firedrgn
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    Narvuntien wrote: »
    Okay ran a bunch of new tests

    Strenght of automation+ Hundings rage: Focused Aim damage: 32 458
    Strenght of automation + Spriggans: Focused Aim damage: 34 495
    Strenght of automation + Archer's Mind: Focused Aim damage: 33 597

    I am too much of a cheapskate to Buy Spriggans jewerly but I am pretty sure Spriggans + Hundings is worse when i tried it on the PTS, SotA gives more WD than Hundings. Hundings is better for healing and such.

    In defense of Hundings rage, I have a bunch less stamina because I have tri stat enchants on helmet and gaurds. To get my hp stats to 17K.

    That NPC must have 0 resistances :s or my backyard isn't big enough to get max damage from the bow distance passive. I have no idea how you'd get 50K with a single shot... 50K is my Onslaught (2H) damage.

    My tests seems to suggest that Archer's mind might actually be the most damage.. but I want to find a punching bag to test how this interacts with Inpen.

    Are those crit numbers ?
  • goldenarcher1
    goldenarcher1
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    Used to get 50k snipes from stealth using Clever Alchemist+ Hundings/Dreugh King/Morag Tong etc. before the Clever Alchemist "tampering" in last patch.

    Now using Dreugh King,Spriggans and 1 piece Molag Kena combo on NB which gives just over 45k snipes from stealth on NPC (empowered).


    Can get just over 100k damage from empowered onslaught from stealth on NPC on same NB.
  • Narvuntien
    Narvuntien
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    Some other combination, tell me about it
    Ah wait I remember now.. NPCs still have the bonus damage from stealth they removed a few updates ago!
    I was so confused... wait that should be applying on the dummy.?? That still allows me to compare the damage from the sets though.

    There is no need for Dreugh King with Rally from 2h, With Clever alchemist I had only hit 54K for Onslaught, once shadow was nerfed and bonus damage from stealth was removed. They have been repeatly nerfing this play style over this year.

    They should be crits and they should be empowered....I used Magelight and cloak whille snipe is in the air... I am not sure why my numbers are apperently so low then???

    Put on the same gear and show me your numbers... surely you have hundings and spriggans lying around.

    Keep in mind all my gear is purple since I am testing and not made of money.
    Edited by Narvuntien on November 9, 2017 5:13PM
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