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Bow Ganker Build Question?

  • The_Protagonist
    The_Protagonist
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    thedude33 wrote: »
    I am using Spriggans bow.

    I don't remember what monster. I think it's the one with penetration.

    If you drop the monster piece, you can go for Asylum Bow (non perfect), Piercing Spray is quite strong, easily reaching values of over 35K, I have tested this on live, it does how however drain stamina quite fast if you have to fight longer.
  • thedude33
    thedude33
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    thedude33 wrote: »
    I am using Spriggans bow.

    I don't remember what monster. I think it's the one with penetration.

    If you drop the monster piece, you can go for Asylum Bow (non perfect), Piercing Spray is quite strong, easily reaching values of over 35K, I have tested this on live, it does how however drain stamina quite fast if you have to fight longer.

    I listened to a streamer talk about that bow after it was introduced on the test server. how he thought it might have potential.

    So you have to be within 20m to do start with the spray, then follow it up with a Snipe? would have to think about that. Whether it transfers over to real time pvp in a squishy build. The damage sounds interesting.

    Will be getting my Twice born star bow with Nirnhorn trait. Going to use double poison and see how the damage compares to what I have now with infused.

    Edit: Maybe I will check out the Asylum Trial. I'm not a big pve player but I have built a pure tank that has been doing well in Dungeons. He farms equipment for the rest of my characters.Maybe he could contribute in a trial. Dunno how hard they are.
    Edited by thedude33 on November 14, 2017 8:58AM
    1v1 Win/Loss Record in PvP.
    1 Wins - 392 Losses (guy was AFK)

  • thedude33
    thedude33
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ..and I dropped thief and picked up Warrior. So now it's Warrior and Shadow.
    1v1 Win/Loss Record in PvP.
    1 Wins - 392 Losses (guy was AFK)

  • pdebie64b16_ESO
    pdebie64b16_ESO
    ✭✭✭
    Some other combination, tell me about it
    I switched from 5x Automaton, 5x Hunding, 1x Kena to 5x Automaton, 5x Spriggan, 1x Kena and my damage is improved, atleast on Cyro guards, Focused Aim from stealth hits for average 55k instead of 48k without potions.
  • The_Protagonist
    The_Protagonist
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    thedude33 wrote: »
    ..and I dropped thief and picked up Warrior. So now it's Warrior and Shadow.

    :smile: Let us know how much your damage improved.
  • The_Protagonist
    The_Protagonist
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I switched from 5x Automaton, 5x Hunding, 1x Kena to 5x Automaton, 5x Spriggan, 1x Kena and my damage is improved, atleast on Cyro guards, Focused Aim from stealth hits for average 55k instead of 48k without potions.

    Impressive! :)
  • The_Protagonist
    The_Protagonist
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    thedude33 wrote: »
    thedude33 wrote: »
    I am using Spriggans bow.

    I don't remember what monster. I think it's the one with penetration.

    If you drop the monster piece, you can go for Asylum Bow (non perfect), Piercing Spray is quite strong, easily reaching values of over 35K, I have tested this on live, it does how however drain stamina quite fast if you have to fight longer.

    I listened to a streamer talk about that bow after it was introduced on the test server. how he thought it might have potential.

    So you have to be within 20m to do start with the spray, then follow it up with a Snipe? would have to think about that. Whether it transfers over to real time pvp in a squishy build. The damage sounds interesting.

    Will be getting my Twice born star bow with Nirnhorn trait. Going to use double poison and see how the damage compares to what I have now with infused.

    Edit: Maybe I will check out the Asylum Trial. I'm not a big pve player but I have built a pure tank that has been doing well in Dungeons. He farms equipment for the rest of my characters.Maybe he could contribute in a trial. Dunno how hard they are.

    Yes you are limited to the range of arrow spray which is indeed 20m and the way to do it effectively with a squishy build is to focus a player that is being attacked by other melee players, you get to steal the kill ;)

    I sneaked in an ongoing battle and looked for a healthy target that was lets say busy and hit him with spray>lethal arrow twice first hit was non-crit and did 22k damage, 2nd hit was crit and did 35.4k damage, then the chap died. That was how I was able to do my testing lol.
  • The_Protagonist
    The_Protagonist
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I switched from 5x Automaton, 5x Hunding, 1x Kena to 5x Automaton, 5x Spriggan, 1x Kena and my damage is improved, atleast on Cyro guards, Focused Aim from stealth hits for average 55k instead of 48k without potions.

    Impressive! :)

    Edit: Can you test with 1p Kra'gh instead of Kena and post the results, I want to know how much the damage changes in your case, if it does.
  • Etchos
    Etchos
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    Interesting thread. Got to say though I am absolutely blown away by the numbers being quoted.

    I recently changed my main over to a bow ganker build and although i'm enjoying it I'm struggling to comprehend how you guys are hitting so hard.

    XBOX EU Server.

    I'm a wood elf. max CP. Have all skyshards including clockwork city. finished cadwels gold and silver. So skill points are not a problem.

    Currently a vampire.

    Running 5p Marksman/5 morag tong and 1p Velidreth in (heavy). Everything gold apart form 2 small armour pieces. 2 pieces infused with tri stat enchants the rest divines.

    Warrior Mundas

    All attribute points in stam.

    Bow (front bar) is sharpened although I will change to nirnhoned once I have enough crystals.
    2H (back bar) is sharpened.

    Weapon damage is approx. 4k buffed.

    Standard rotation. buff with relentous focus and Rally. Hit inner light (yes I do have might of the guild passive). Lethal arrow x2. Shadowy Disguise, poison injection

    Lucky if I hit for more than 5k initially in most instances. I hardly ever burst anyone down to actually kill them unless I'm running with someone else or a group. In which case I can be quite effective from the sidelines. But that's not really how I want to play this build.

    The only thing really missing from the build skills wise is Undaunted mettle as I haven't really run many dungeons/pledges on this toon but I have started working on that now and am currently undaunted 6 so getting close. But the 2% (4% for the second unlock) boost to max stats from wearing medium and heavy isn't going to suddenly translate into a lot of additional damage.

    Based on what I've read in here I should be hitting much higher right? Where do I go from here?


  • thedude33
    thedude33
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    I don't even know the damage that I do. I can review all the PvE damage logs. Shot by shot, overall, crit % etc etc.

    Those logs don't come up in PvP
    1v1 Win/Loss Record in PvP.
    1 Wins - 392 Losses (guy was AFK)

  • JAwtunes
    JAwtunes
    ✭✭✭
    Etchos, a few comments/ questions.

    You said "Running 5p Marksman/5 morag tong and 1p Velidreth in (heavy). Everything gold apart form 2 small armour pieces. 2 pieces infused with tri stat enchants the rest divines."

    I run all Stam glyphs on my armour for extra damage. tri-stat on big pieces is appealing but you cant really compromise if you want quick kills.
    I run 5-1-1 (medium). With the undaunted passive i find this better than 7 medium. Its a pain going through dungeons but worth it for that passive imo.

    "Weapon damage is approx. 4k buffed."

    What is your Stam and physical penetration?
    What is your Lethal Arrow tool tip in cyro (i know it varies based on circumstance but still a useful guide)?

    5k with Lethal Arrow on a NB from stealth seems impossibly low. I think I get that with a light attack from stealth. Note, Morag Tong wont give you the 10% buff on your first hit (at least that used to be the case).
  • Etchos
    Etchos
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    Ill check the tooltips and other stats when I get home.

    Aware of the first hit of Morag Tong which is why I fire 2 and then cloak to get the guaranteed crit from the poison injection.

    I can only run 6-1 medium as both Marksman and Morag tong are medium sets and with only one weapon (bow and 2H I need 10 of my 11 slots to keep the 5 piece bonusses on both bars. Whichever way you compute that it will always mean 6 of the seven armour slots are set pieces.

    the left over slot I'm using Veli shoulders for the extra damage. I have them in medium as well but figured heavy was the way to go since it pulls the heavy passives into play for a bit more survivability (and a bit more resources when I unlock undaunted mettle)

    As far as enchants go. The infused pieces have tri stat enchants. Divines pieces have stam enchants. Bow has a poison enchant. 2H hander I cant remember and jewellery all have weapon damage enchants.

    I agree that 5k seems low. But its what is flashing up. Yesterday from stealth I hit a guy with 2 lethal arrows, poison injection from cloack and then dropped the ballista ult. His health never dropped below the half way mark even with being stunned from the initial hit. He was CP 334 compared to my max CP.

    I suppose I could swap out ballista for dawnbreaker for the 8% damage increase. Might help

    Edited by Etchos on November 15, 2017 11:25AM
  • The_Protagonist
    The_Protagonist
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    Etchos wrote: »
    Interesting thread. Got to say though I am absolutely blown away by the numbers being quoted.

    I recently changed my main over to a bow ganker build and although i'm enjoying it I'm struggling to comprehend how you guys are hitting so hard.

    XBOX EU Server.

    I'm a wood elf. max CP. Have all skyshards including clockwork city. finished cadwels gold and silver. So skill points are not a problem.

    Currently a vampire.

    Running 5p Marksman/5 morag tong and 1p Velidreth in (heavy). Everything gold apart form 2 small armour pieces. 2 pieces infused with tri stat enchants the rest divines.

    Warrior Mundas

    All attribute points in stam.

    Bow (front bar) is sharpened although I will change to nirnhoned once I have enough crystals.
    2H (back bar) is sharpened.

    Weapon damage is approx. 4k buffed.

    Standard rotation. buff with relentous focus and Rally. Hit inner light (yes I do have might of the guild passive). Lethal arrow x2. Shadowy Disguise, poison injection

    Lucky if I hit for more than 5k initially in most instances. I hardly ever burst anyone down to actually kill them unless I'm running with someone else or a group. In which case I can be quite effective from the sidelines. But that's not really how I want to play this build.

    The only thing really missing from the build skills wise is Undaunted mettle as I haven't really run many dungeons/pledges on this toon but I have started working on that now and am currently undaunted 6 so getting close. But the 2% (4% for the second unlock) boost to max stats from wearing medium and heavy isn't going to suddenly translate into a lot of additional damage.

    Based on what I've read in here I should be hitting much higher right? Where do I go from here?


    The only thing I feel that could be missing is enough getting penetration, if full penetration is achieved damage can increase by at least 56%, remember that not all targets are the same, as there are players with mitigation up to 30k for both spell and physical damage.

    The high values that are being reported here are also due to application of debuffs like minor vulnerability from poisons or off-balance, minor/major fracture from focused aim, mark target, caustic arrow from master bow which gives +301 WD against targets affected by PI. Another important thing is many medium armor and light armor targets do not wear impen and have very low resistances, hence the high damage values.

    I imagine that you are targeting players with high mitigation in open Cyrodiil, hop into the sewers, find your self a PvEer and check your damage on them if you like ganking, other ask a friend to act as your target dummy and test it out, you will see the difference in damage.

    BTW I almost forgot to ask, are you in CP or CP campaigns, because my test was in CP campaigns and I assume all the other's above too, CP is over powered and adds a very huge amount to damage.
  • The_Protagonist
    The_Protagonist
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    thedude33 wrote: »
    I don't even know the damage that I do. I can review all the PvE damage logs. Shot by shot, overall, crit % etc etc.

    Those logs don't come up in PvP

    You can check damage done by looking at scrolling combat text.
  • The_Protagonist
    The_Protagonist
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Etchos wrote: »
    Ill check the tooltips and other stats when I get home.

    Aware of the first hit of Morag Tong which is why I fire 2 and then cloak to get the guaranteed crit from the poison injection.

    I can only run 6-1 medium as both Marksman and Morag tong are medium sets and with only one weapon (bow and 2H I need 10 of my 11 slots to keep the 5 piece bonusses on both bars. Whichever way you compute that it will always mean 6 of the seven armour slots are set pieces.

    the left over slot I'm using Veli shoulders for the extra damage. I have them in medium as well but figured heavy was the way to go since it pulls the heavy passives into play for a bit more survivability (and a bit more resources when I unlock undaunted mettle)

    As far as enchants go. The infused pieces have tri stat enchants. Divines pieces have stam enchants. Bow has a poison enchant. 2H hander I cant remember and jewellery all have weapon damage enchants.

    I agree that 5k seems low. But its what is flashing up. Yesterday from stealth I hit a guy with 2 lethal arrows, poison injection from cloack and then dropped the ballista ult. His health never dropped below the half way mark even with being stunned from the initial hit. He was CP 334 compared to my max CP.

    I suppose I could swap out ballista for dawnbreaker for the 8% damage increase. Might help

    Stun lasts only for a couple of seconds, after which the target will heat and block, using a disease enchant could proc defile, which will make healing harder for them.
  • thedude33
    thedude33
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    thedude33 wrote: »
    I don't even know the damage that I do. I can review all the PvE damage logs. Shot by shot, overall, crit % etc etc.

    Those logs don't come up in PvP

    You can check damage done by looking at scrolling combat text.

    I don't get that ..or at least can't find it.
    1v1 Win/Loss Record in PvP.
    1 Wins - 392 Losses (guy was AFK)

  • Curtdogg47
    Curtdogg47
    ✭✭✭
    I like TBS. Runing warrior and lover. Its like having both hundings and spriggians. With 7 Divines you get 362 WD from the warrior and 4100 pen from the lover.

    Your second 5 set could be what ever you want.
  • The_Protagonist
    The_Protagonist
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    thedude33 wrote: »
    thedude33 wrote: »
    I don't even know the damage that I do. I can review all the PvE damage logs. Shot by shot, overall, crit % etc etc.

    Those logs don't come up in PvP

    You can check damage done by looking at scrolling combat text.

    I don't get that ..or at least can't find it.

    While you are in the game press Esc>Settings>Combat>Combat Text and toggle it On if it's Off, if combat text is still not showing up in your UI then it's something that can't help you with, I am assuming that you are on PC since you said you are reviewing combat logs while in PvE, which I think can only come from an addon.
  • A_G_G_R_O
    A_G_G_R_O
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    Some other combination, tell me about it
    Nerf snipe. Too stronk. (I hope this breeds more AP fodder..... I mean bow players)
    [NA PC] [AD] [A G G R O] - level 50 Stamplar
    [NA PC] [EP] [S M I T E] - level 50 Stamplar
    [GM][CAMPAIGN KILLERS]
  • pdebie64b16_ESO
    pdebie64b16_ESO
    ✭✭✭
    Some other combination, tell me about it
    I switched from 5x Automaton, 5x Hunding, 1x Kena to 5x Automaton, 5x Spriggan, 1x Kena and my damage is improved, atleast on Cyro guards, Focused Aim from stealth hits for average 55k instead of 48k without potions.

    Impressive! :)

    Edit: Can you test with 1p Kra'gh instead of Kena and post the results, I want to know how much the damage changes in your case, if it does.

    Compared Kragh to Kena (Kragh medium Kena light) on heavy armor guards in Cyro, 39k with Kena, 44k with Kragh, i think results will be different on non heavy armor.

    Changed my build back to poison approach, 5x Morag Tong, 5x Sheer Venom 1x Kena, optimal will be a Master bow instead of Kena but i only have a V14 bow, need to farm a V16 one first.

    Burst is lower but the preasure from poisons (damage health IX) and Sheer venom is to good not to use.
  • The_Protagonist
    The_Protagonist
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I switched from 5x Automaton, 5x Hunding, 1x Kena to 5x Automaton, 5x Spriggan, 1x Kena and my damage is improved, atleast on Cyro guards, Focused Aim from stealth hits for average 55k instead of 48k without potions.

    Impressive! :)

    Edit: Can you test with 1p Kra'gh instead of Kena and post the results, I want to know how much the damage changes in your case, if it does.

    Compared Kragh to Kena (Kragh medium Kena light) on heavy armor guards in Cyro, 39k with Kena, 44k with Kragh, i think results will be different on non heavy armor.

    Changed my build back to poison approach, 5x Morag Tong, 5x Sheer Venom 1x Kena, optimal will be a Master bow instead of Kena but i only have a V14 bow, need to farm a V16 one first.

    Burst is lower but the preasure from poisons (damage health IX) and Sheer venom is to good not to use.

    I just wanted to you know how important penetration is, when the target has damage mitigation, this will be helpful for others to understand an important mechanic in the game. Well done on the effort for testing it out.
  • IlCanis_LupuslI
    IlCanis_LupuslI
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    Some other combination, tell me about it
    Xvorg wrote: »
    Don't need cloak on front bar, hits from stealth always crit otherwise seems ok,

    Why not? After attacking you need to remain invisible if there are enemies around

    @Xvorg switch bar and skill be fine. And you should be in their field of view anyway use your superior range (48m)
    Cp 1352
    Xbox-EU-AD

    Khajiit Stamsorc Werewolf, Flawless Conquerer (1st attempt ww form during the entire dungeon) main
    Khajiit(Master Race) Stamplar Werewolf, Flawless Conquerer
    Khajiit Stamina Nightblade(BiS for cuteness)-Flawless Conquerer crafter

    Khajiit Stam dk, Flawless conquerer, 2nd attempt
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQhCmVHwZioVyTEDberxGtA?view_as=public
    Werewolf Veteran player, Since Wolfhunter-DLC "Raid-Wolf", 51.4k dps with fracture,48.5 on stamblade ww
  • IlCanis_LupuslI
    IlCanis_LupuslI
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    Some other combination, tell me about it
    Narvuntien wrote: »
    Warrior Shadow could also be good.

    I was running around in SotA and Hundings and it felt pretty good. My snipes were kind of small at about 10-11K. Two would still kill the unsuspecting which I did a bunch of times.

    I have tri stat enchants on my large pieces and that was very good as well.

    I am going to try out Archer's mind again sometime soon.

    Spriggans is a good set but it lacks raw weapon damage and it is possible to over penetrate with a lot of fracture sources out there.

    Im running Spriggans and marksman and i hit for 18k-20k per hit... And since you don't have major fracture, overpenetrating isnt possible. And btw im still @ 4k wd in stealth
    Edited by IlCanis_LupuslI on November 16, 2017 5:50PM
    Cp 1352
    Xbox-EU-AD

    Khajiit Stamsorc Werewolf, Flawless Conquerer (1st attempt ww form during the entire dungeon) main
    Khajiit(Master Race) Stamplar Werewolf, Flawless Conquerer
    Khajiit Stamina Nightblade(BiS for cuteness)-Flawless Conquerer crafter

    Khajiit Stam dk, Flawless conquerer, 2nd attempt
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQhCmVHwZioVyTEDberxGtA?view_as=public
    Werewolf Veteran player, Since Wolfhunter-DLC "Raid-Wolf", 51.4k dps with fracture,48.5 on stamblade ww
  • IlCanis_LupuslI
    IlCanis_LupuslI
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    Some other combination, tell me about it
    thedude33 wrote: »
    I'm really liking the Spriggan/Twice Born Star combo. I have been using Thief and Shadow. Been having some pretty good success in CP campaign. Even though I am only 380+ CPs there is far more action and a much better chance of finding solos traveling from point to point.

    I have started thinking about switching to double bows and drop the 2H. Use pots for the Brutality buff. Currently I use an Infused bow with Oblivion. If I added a second bow I would use a sharpened with double poisons.

    The three most common outcomes of my fights.

    1. Second Snipe either kills or takes enemy to very low health.
    2. Second Snipe and enemy is still at 50% health or higher = my cue to vacate. I have learned that these fights don't end well for me.
    3. Second Snipe takes enemy to 30% or so health. They are off their horse and starting to heal, buff and return fire. I win some , lose some of these. Which is why I was thinking of 2nd bow. To add 2nd dots and to maybe enter melee with Assassin skills, Ambush and Incap

    @thedude33 try marksman, 8% more bow damage vs Players
    Cp 1352
    Xbox-EU-AD

    Khajiit Stamsorc Werewolf, Flawless Conquerer (1st attempt ww form during the entire dungeon) main
    Khajiit(Master Race) Stamplar Werewolf, Flawless Conquerer
    Khajiit Stamina Nightblade(BiS for cuteness)-Flawless Conquerer crafter

    Khajiit Stam dk, Flawless conquerer, 2nd attempt
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQhCmVHwZioVyTEDberxGtA?view_as=public
    Werewolf Veteran player, Since Wolfhunter-DLC "Raid-Wolf", 51.4k dps with fracture,48.5 on stamblade ww
  • Xvorg
    Xvorg
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Xvorg wrote: »
    Don't need cloak on front bar, hits from stealth always crit otherwise seems ok,

    Why not? After attacking you need to remain invisible if there are enemies around

    @Xvorg switch bar and skill be fine. And you should be in their field of view anyway use your superior range (48m)

    Not everyone has good latency to keep on switching bars. Playing at 250 forces you to slot key skills in the main bar. Anyway as a bow archer I thought shadowy disguise was the option by default to grant a crit.
    The biggest problem within this game is the lack imagination on its player base and its developers...
    DragonKNIGHT KNIGHT!!!! not Dragonscoundrel, neither Dragonarcher....
    ― Our enemy was bold so we were bolder... our enemy was strong so we were stronger...

    ― Then, why did you lose?

    ― Our enemy was stupid...
    Get rid of poison on DKs...
  • DDuke
    DDuke
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    ✭✭✭✭
    Some other combination, tell me about it
    Xvorg wrote: »
    Xvorg wrote: »
    Don't need cloak on front bar, hits from stealth always crit otherwise seems ok,

    Why not? After attacking you need to remain invisible if there are enemies around

    @Xvorg switch bar and skill be fine. And you should be in their field of view anyway use your superior range (48m)

    Not everyone has good latency to keep on switching bars. Playing at 250 forces you to slot key skills in the main bar. Anyway as a bow archer I thought shadowy disguise was the option by default to grant a crit.

    Just a PSA: Shadowy Disguise is still bugged (https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/367271/dot-ticks-ruin-shadowy-disguise).

    Doesn't affect pure gank builds that don't run PI (or Lethal Arrow morph which also puts Poisoned status effect DoT on non-wood elf/argonian targets).
    Decimus (European Megaserver)
  • The_Protagonist
    The_Protagonist
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    DDuke wrote: »
    Xvorg wrote: »
    Xvorg wrote: »
    Don't need cloak on front bar, hits from stealth always crit otherwise seems ok,

    Why not? After attacking you need to remain invisible if there are enemies around

    @Xvorg switch bar and skill be fine. And you should be in their field of view anyway use your superior range (48m)

    Not everyone has good latency to keep on switching bars. Playing at 250 forces you to slot key skills in the main bar. Anyway as a bow archer I thought shadowy disguise was the option by default to grant a crit.

    Just a PSA: Shadowy Disguise is still bugged (https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/367271/dot-ticks-ruin-shadowy-disguise).

    Doesn't affect pure gank builds that don't run PI (or Lethal Arrow morph which also puts Poisoned status effect DoT on non-wood elf/argonian targets).

    Thanks for the heads up buddy.
  • Xvorg
    Xvorg
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    DDuke wrote: »
    Xvorg wrote: »
    Xvorg wrote: »
    Don't need cloak on front bar, hits from stealth always crit otherwise seems ok,

    Why not? After attacking you need to remain invisible if there are enemies around

    @Xvorg switch bar and skill be fine. And you should be in their field of view anyway use your superior range (48m)

    Not everyone has good latency to keep on switching bars. Playing at 250 forces you to slot key skills in the main bar. Anyway as a bow archer I thought shadowy disguise was the option by default to grant a crit.

    Just a PSA: Shadowy Disguise is still bugged (https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/367271/dot-ticks-ruin-shadowy-disguise).

    Doesn't affect pure gank builds that don't run PI (or Lethal Arrow morph which also puts Poisoned status effect DoT on non-wood elf/argonian targets).

    :s

    I'm considering a gank Sorcher... in fact, rune is great with snipe
    The biggest problem within this game is the lack imagination on its player base and its developers...
    DragonKNIGHT KNIGHT!!!! not Dragonscoundrel, neither Dragonarcher....
    ― Our enemy was bold so we were bolder... our enemy was strong so we were stronger...

    ― Then, why did you lose?

    ― Our enemy was stupid...
    Get rid of poison on DKs...
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