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Bow Ganker Build Question?

  • IlCanis_LupuslI
    IlCanis_LupuslI
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Some other combination, tell me about it
    Narvuntien wrote: »
    Okay ran a bunch of new tests

    Strenght of automation+ Hundings rage: Focused Aim damage: 32 458
    Strenght of automation + Spriggans: Focused Aim damage: 34 495
    Strenght of automation + Archer's Mind: Focused Aim damage: 33 597

    I am too much of a cheapskate to Buy Spriggans jewerly but I am pretty sure Spriggans + Hundings is worse when i tried it on the PTS, SotA gives more WD than Hundings. Hundings is better for healing and such.

    In defense of Hundings rage, I have a bunch less stamina because I have tri stat enchants on helmet and gaurds. To get my hp stats to 17K.

    That NPC must have 0 resistances :s or my backyard isn't big enough to get max damage from the bow distance passive. I have no idea how you'd get 50K with a single shot... 50K is my Onslaught (2H) damage.

    My tests seems to suggest that Archer's mind might actually be the most damage.. but I want to find a punching bag to test how this interacts with Inpen.
    @Narvuntien
    Try empowering it with radiant magelight, have the 2 last passives mages guild slotted, my onslaught hit a npc (out of stealth ) for 125k
    Here a Quick vid , same build a few patches ago, has lost none of its potency :grin:
    Edited by IlCanis_LupuslI on November 9, 2017 5:46PM
    Cp 1460
    Xbox-EU-AD
    Khajiit Stamblade Werewolf(BiS for cuteness)-Flawless Conquerer Grand Overlord Main
    Khajiit Stamsorc Werewolf, Flawless Conquerer (1st attempt ww form during the entire dungeon)
    Khajiit(Master Race) Stamplar Werewolf, Flawless Conquerer
    Khajiit Stam dk, Flawless conquerer, 2nd attempt
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQhCmVHwZioVyTEDberxGtA?view_as=public
    Werewolf Veteran player, Since Wrathstone-DLC "Raid-Wolf", 50k dps with fracture
  • Narvuntien
    Narvuntien
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Some other combination, tell me about it
    @Narvuntien
    Try empowering it with radiant magelight, have the 2 last passives mages guild slotted, my onslaught hit a npc (out of stealth ) for 125k

    Its empowered....at least it should be..

    This is the set up btw.

    2h Bar 1: Ambush, Mark Target, Supprise attack, Executioner, Rally, Onslaught
    Bow Bar 2: Relentless focus, Radiant magelight, Cloak, Focused Aim, Posion injection, Flawless dawnbreaker.

  • IlCanis_LupuslI
    IlCanis_LupuslI
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Some other combination, tell me about it
    Don't need cloak on front bar, hits from stealth always crit otherwise seems ok,
    Edited by IlCanis_LupuslI on November 9, 2017 5:50PM
    Cp 1460
    Xbox-EU-AD
    Khajiit Stamblade Werewolf(BiS for cuteness)-Flawless Conquerer Grand Overlord Main
    Khajiit Stamsorc Werewolf, Flawless Conquerer (1st attempt ww form during the entire dungeon)
    Khajiit(Master Race) Stamplar Werewolf, Flawless Conquerer
    Khajiit Stam dk, Flawless conquerer, 2nd attempt
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQhCmVHwZioVyTEDberxGtA?view_as=public
    Werewolf Veteran player, Since Wrathstone-DLC "Raid-Wolf", 50k dps with fracture
  • Xvorg
    Xvorg
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Don't need cloak on front bar, hits from stealth always crit otherwise seems ok,

    Why not? After attacking you need to remain invisible if there are enemies around
    The biggest problem within this game is the lack imagination on its player base and its developers...
    DragonKNIGHT KNIGHT!!!! not Dragonscoundrel, neither Dragonarcher....
    ― Our enemy was bold so we were bolder... our enemy was strong so we were stronger...

    ― Then, why did you lose?

    ― Our enemy was stupid...
    Get rid of poison on DKs...
  • pepe1337
    pepe1337
    ✭✭
    Some other combination, tell me about it
    sprigians/viper, selenes/velidreth.
    Edited by pepe1337 on November 10, 2017 9:38AM
  • Narvuntien
    Narvuntien
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Some other combination, tell me about it
    I found someone with a ton of crit resist to shoot arrows at.

    They had 5.2K or something crit resist, he said 70% crit resist, in medium armor.

    Here Archer's mind (8.8K) out performs Spriggans (8.5K) in this situation. Hundings rage was very similar to Archer's mind since raw damage is important as well.

    my numbers are so low though.. but I can't work out where you are all getting double my damage from, I have cloak and I have empower.
  • JAwtunes
    JAwtunes
    ✭✭✭
    Vivec?

    Interesting to hear Archer's Mind outperformed Spriggan's. I don't like Crit bonuses so the 3rd and 4th bonuses always put me off that set, might have to check it out some time!

    Do you have a test dummy you can shoot at? I get similar Snipe and Onslaught damage to Mangeli on my dummy. I wouldn't worry about trying to find a target in PVP that you can land 20k on. Sometimes i get 20k, sometimes 10k. Depends on the target/ buffs they have up etc.

    If you want a hand then i'm on PC EU.

    FYI, buffed and in sneak on my bosmer NB:
    Stam = 38K
    WD = 3.6K
    P Pen = 14.8k
    L Arrow tooltip: 18.5k

    This included loads of bonuses. My faction were zerging hard!

    Note that penetration bonus DOESN'T show on tooltip. I like hitting heavy armour targets, hence the high(ish) P Pen. I find it normally outperforms WD. Against sorcs in dresses its wasted, but then they die so quickly without shields up it doesn't really matter.


    hope this helps.
  • Xvorg
    Xvorg
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Nobody has said marksman + hawkeye?
    The biggest problem within this game is the lack imagination on its player base and its developers...
    DragonKNIGHT KNIGHT!!!! not Dragonscoundrel, neither Dragonarcher....
    ― Our enemy was bold so we were bolder... our enemy was strong so we were stronger...

    ― Then, why did you lose?

    ― Our enemy was stupid...
    Get rid of poison on DKs...
  • SodanTok
    SodanTok
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Xvorg wrote: »
    Nobody has said marksman + hawkeye?

    Because hawkeye is bad and marksman is good just because it is both ok damage and ok sustain so great damage would outperform it. With all the additives % to damage from CP and bow passive, hawkeye is much less than promised 5%. More like 3.5% increase. NMG would be more damage in every possible resistance situation (that is higher than NMG penetration), let alone proper spriggan.
    Edited by SodanTok on November 10, 2017 3:05PM
    PC | EU | AD
  • Xvorg
    Xvorg
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    SodanTok wrote: »
    Xvorg wrote: »
    Nobody has said marksman + hawkeye?

    Because hawkeye is bad and marksman is good just because it is both ok damage and ok sustain so great damage would outperform it. With all the additives % to damage from CP and bow passive, hawkeye is much less than promised 5%. More like 3.5% increase. NMG would be more damage in every possible resistance situation (that is higher than NMG penetration), let alone proper spriggan.

    Oki. So actually Hawkeye is not a good set on CP camps, but may have some uses in non CP, right? Though I think you're right about NMG.

    Other option i was thinking is an utility set like NME (around 260 wpn dmg and a 25% sneak cost reduction).

    What about Storm Master once the changes to Full heavy take place?
    The biggest problem within this game is the lack imagination on its player base and its developers...
    DragonKNIGHT KNIGHT!!!! not Dragonscoundrel, neither Dragonarcher....
    ― Our enemy was bold so we were bolder... our enemy was strong so we were stronger...

    ― Then, why did you lose?

    ― Our enemy was stupid...
    Get rid of poison on DKs...
  • SodanTok
    SodanTok
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Xvorg wrote: »
    SodanTok wrote: »
    Xvorg wrote: »
    Nobody has said marksman + hawkeye?

    Because hawkeye is bad and marksman is good just because it is both ok damage and ok sustain so great damage would outperform it. With all the additives % to damage from CP and bow passive, hawkeye is much less than promised 5%. More like 3.5% increase. NMG would be more damage in every possible resistance situation (that is higher than NMG penetration), let alone proper spriggan.

    Oki. So actually Hawkeye is not a good set on CP camps, but may have some uses in non CP, right? Though I think you're right about NMG.

    Other option i was thinking is an utility set like NME (around 260 wpn dmg and a 25% sneak cost reduction).

    What about Storm Master once the changes to Full heavy take place?

    I think hawkeye would be bad even without CP, at least with empower (if it is additive) and bow passive. But yeah it would be fine set (even reducing bow ult cost) but not for ganking imo.
    As for NME cant say, because sneak cost and sneak detection is ridiculously low on medium/legendermain/ bosmer or khajiit anyway. And Storm Master I dont fully get what ZoS means with the heavy changes in that combat post so for now everything related to heavy attacks on bow (pve or pvp) just kills any potential (which is already pretty low, it being bow)
    PC | EU | AD
  • Xvorg
    Xvorg
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    SodanTok wrote: »
    Xvorg wrote: »
    SodanTok wrote: »
    Xvorg wrote: »
    Nobody has said marksman + hawkeye?

    Because hawkeye is bad and marksman is good just because it is both ok damage and ok sustain so great damage would outperform it. With all the additives % to damage from CP and bow passive, hawkeye is much less than promised 5%. More like 3.5% increase. NMG would be more damage in every possible resistance situation (that is higher than NMG penetration), let alone proper spriggan.

    Oki. So actually Hawkeye is not a good set on CP camps, but may have some uses in non CP, right? Though I think you're right about NMG.

    Other option i was thinking is an utility set like NME (around 260 wpn dmg and a 25% sneak cost reduction).

    What about Storm Master once the changes to Full heavy take place?

    I think hawkeye would be bad even without CP, at least with empower (if it is additive) and bow passive. But yeah it would be fine set (even reducing bow ult cost) but not for ganking imo.
    As for NME cant say, because sneak cost and sneak detection is ridiculously low on medium/legendermain/ bosmer or khajiit anyway. And Storm Master I dont fully get what ZoS means with the heavy changes in that combat post so for now everything related to heavy attacks on bow (pve or pvp) just kills any potential (which is already pretty low, it being bow)

    Well, one of the things that keeps me out of that set in any bow build is the change to full heavy in bow. I liked it when you were able to hold the button. I even theorycrafted a basic attack stamsorc build using Storm Master and WoF...
    The biggest problem within this game is the lack imagination on its player base and its developers...
    DragonKNIGHT KNIGHT!!!! not Dragonscoundrel, neither Dragonarcher....
    ― Our enemy was bold so we were bolder... our enemy was strong so we were stronger...

    ― Then, why did you lose?

    ― Our enemy was stupid...
    Get rid of poison on DKs...
  • goldenarcher1
    goldenarcher1
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Anyone tried Morag Tong + Sheer Venom + Monster piece?

    Plenty of weapon damage on these sets and a large buff to Poison Injection.

  • The_Protagonist
    The_Protagonist
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Anyone tried Morag Tong + Sheer Venom + Monster piece?

    Plenty of weapon damage on these sets and a large buff to Poison Injection.

    With Sheer Venom, we have to include Poison Injection in the rotation, it procs on the first tick of PI and yes stacking WD is good for getting high numbers. I have to test this in live.
  • thedude33
    thedude33
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I am getting some Twice Born star made. I think I will combine with Spriggans.

    Not sure what two Mundus to get. Crit chance and crit damage?
    1v1 Win/Loss Record in PvP.
    1 Wins - 392 Losses (guy was AFK)

  • Valera Progib
    Valera Progib
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Maybe grow a pair and fight like a man?
    PC/EU 800 CP.
    PvP MagSorc.
    Pedro Gonzales - Mag Sorc EP vMA Flawless Conqueror clear http://imgur.com/a/CB6j6
    Valera Progib - Stam Sorc DC vMA Flawless Conqueror clear https://i.imgur.com/eYgpXG2.png
    Valera Pozhar - Mag DK EP vMA Flawless Conqueror clear http://imgur.com/a/jrsuK
    Valera Podlechi - Mag Templar AD vMA Flawless Conqueror clear http://imgur.com/a/N0BYq
  • firedrgn
    firedrgn
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have tbs Iirc it does not stack wd as well as hundings. Wd is really what you need to,stack to,get the medium armor passive and the stealth passive and the Nb passive
  • pdebie64b16_ESO
    pdebie64b16_ESO
    ✭✭✭
    Some other combination, tell me about it
    Anyone tried Morag Tong + Sheer Venom + Monster piece?

    Plenty of weapon damage on these sets and a large buff to Poison Injection.

    Sheer Venom, Morag Tong, Master bow, Sheer Venom works as a finisher with poison injection. Works great to preasure your opponent.
  • The_Protagonist
    The_Protagonist
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Maybe grow a pair and fight like a man?

    Or join in the discussion and try to understand another style of game-play that was intended by the developers, you don't have to be a man or woman to play in a certain style. Try to look beyond your own pair.
  • The_Protagonist
    The_Protagonist
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Anyone tried Morag Tong + Sheer Venom + Monster piece?

    Plenty of weapon damage on these sets and a large buff to Poison Injection.

    Sheer Venom, Morag Tong, Master bow, Sheer Venom works as a finisher with poison injection. Works great to preasure your opponent.

    Yes Sheer venom does put immense pressure on the opponent and when we get in close with incap, it's a sure kill, tried it out in a few duels and loved it.
  • Narvuntien
    Narvuntien
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Some other combination, tell me about it
    Maybe grow a pair and fight like a man?

    You try fighting "fair" with 300 ping and 2 fps. I playing this game with my hand behind my back.
    I have to use every tool at my disposal to win. Fight Positioning, Cryodil marco, resource poisons, stealth, roll dodge, ganking etc.

    If fighting like a man is fighting like an idiot, I'll gladly fight like a woman.
    Edited by Narvuntien on November 11, 2017 5:12AM
  • Croblasta
    Croblasta
    What would an example rotation be with master bow, sheer venom and morag tong?
  • The_Protagonist
    The_Protagonist
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Croblasta wrote: »
    What would an example rotation be with master bow, sheer venom and morag tong?

    Since there is no bonus damage for attack from stealth, and assuming that you using Weapon Pots, From stealth and preferably behind the target swig a pot, cloak, charge up heavy attack and weave it with poison injection (PI), the intention here is to proc Morag Tong to buff PI and PI will proc Sheer Venom on the first tick, while your target is breaking free from stun (due to attack from stealth) mark target and throw light weight trap weaved with light attack followed by snipe, snipe again if required, if target is dead good, otherwise cloak and re-locate and try again fast. You can also use caltrops to slow the target down, but be prepared for a short battle if the target is tanky.

    Have two bows in your inventory, one with prismatic enchant and the other with disease enchant, many targets are vampires and some werewolfs where prismatic shines, if the the target is not undead then disease has a chance to proc major defile in the beginning, putting pressure early on, you also get major defile from Lethal Arrow.

    This is how I like to do it, I am open to suggestions for improvement.

    Edit: With Master's Bow you try to ensure that you have PI active early on, that is immediately after the opening heavy attack.
    Edited by The_Protagonist on November 12, 2017 8:37AM
  • thedude33
    thedude33
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm really liking the Spriggan/Twice Born Star combo. I have been using Thief and Shadow. Been having some pretty good success in CP campaign. Even though I am only 380+ CPs there is far more action and a much better chance of finding solos traveling from point to point.

    I have started thinking about switching to double bows and drop the 2H. Use pots for the Brutality buff. Currently I use an Infused bow with Oblivion. If I added a second bow I would use a sharpened with double poisons.

    The three most common outcomes of my fights.

    1. Second Snipe either kills or takes enemy to very low health.
    2. Second Snipe and enemy is still at 50% health or higher = my cue to vacate. I have learned that these fights don't end well for me.
    3. Second Snipe takes enemy to 30% or so health. They are off their horse and starting to heal, buff and return fire. I win some , lose some of these. Which is why I was thinking of 2nd bow. To add 2nd dots and to maybe enter melee with Assassin skills, Ambush and Incap
    1v1 Win/Loss Record in PvP.
    1 Wins - 392 Losses (guy was AFK)

  • The_Protagonist
    The_Protagonist
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    thedude33 wrote: »
    I'm really liking the Spriggan/Twice Born Star combo. I have been using Thief and Shadow. Been having some pretty good success in CP campaign. Even though I am only 380+ CPs there is far more action and a much better chance of finding solos traveling from point to point.

    I have started thinking about switching to double bows and drop the 2H. Use pots for the Brutality buff. Currently I use an Infused bow with Oblivion. If I added a second bow I would use a sharpened with double poisons.

    The three most common outcomes of my fights.

    1. Second Snipe either kills or takes enemy to very low health.
    2. Second Snipe and enemy is still at 50% health or higher = my cue to vacate. I have learned that these fights don't end well for me.
    3. Second Snipe takes enemy to 30% or so health. They are off their horse and starting to heal, buff and return fire. I win some , lose some of these. Which is why I was thinking of 2nd bow. To add 2nd dots and to maybe enter melee with Assassin skills, Ambush and Incap

    Which Bow are you using? Asylum or Master? I am asking because you did not mention a one piece monster.
  • thedude33
    thedude33
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I am using Spriggans bow.

    I don't remember what monster. I think it's the one with penetration.
    1v1 Win/Loss Record in PvP.
    1 Wins - 392 Losses (guy was AFK)

  • JAwtunes
    JAwtunes
    ✭✭✭
    Agreed, Sprigg&TBS is strong but i cant get away from Shadow Walker.

    The Thief is a little wasted imo as you will crit with you first attack from stealth anyway. I prefer Lover&Warrior, though i used to run Shadow before the mundus changes.

    Are people using two Snipes as their attack?
    I go for Lethal Arrow from stealth (max buffs) and then follow immediately with heavy attack cancelled with Poison Injection. They all land at pretty much the same time and you can get about 25k/30k in 1sec. If they survive then they have poison status effect (which is decent now its duration is reduced) and Poison Injection dots, along with Major Defile.

    I also normally run minor defile and poison dmg poisons. If the poison goes off then recovery and healing are down by about 67% in total I think (Befoul CP). Some will just die to ravage health, poison or the PI dot, failing that I move and light attack/ Silver Bolts until they die... or until i get jumped by their group.

    TBH though, my connection can lag so hard that even getting that 'combo' to land can be impossible at times.
  • Narvuntien
    Narvuntien
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Some other combination, tell me about it
    Warrior Shadow could also be good.

    I was running around in SotA and Hundings and it felt pretty good. My snipes were kind of small at about 10-11K. Two would still kill the unsuspecting which I did a bunch of times.

    I have tri stat enchants on my large pieces and that was very good as well.

    I am going to try out Archer's mind again sometime soon.

    Spriggans is a good set but it lacks raw weapon damage and it is possible to over penetrate with a lot of fracture sources out there.
  • The_Protagonist
    The_Protagonist
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Narvuntien wrote: »
    Warrior Shadow could also be good.

    I was running around in SotA and Hundings and it felt pretty good. My snipes were kind of small at about 10-11K. Two would still kill the unsuspecting which I did a bunch of times.

    I have tri stat enchants on my large pieces and that was very good as well.

    I am going to try out Archer's mind again sometime soon.

    Spriggans is a good set but it lacks raw weapon damage and it is possible to over penetrate with a lot of fracture sources out there.

    I have tried Archer's Mind and it's pretty much nerfed as the crit hit damage is now additive, rather than multiclicative as it was before, shadow is not as strong as it was before, if you have the sets then test it, otherwise it's a waste of gold and space.
  • The_Protagonist
    The_Protagonist
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    JAwtunes wrote: »
    Agreed, Sprigg&TBS is strong but i cant get away from Shadow Walker.

    The Thief is a little wasted imo as you will crit with you first attack from stealth anyway. I prefer Lover&Warrior, though i used to run Shadow before the mundus changes.

    Are people using two Snipes as their attack?
    I go for Lethal Arrow from stealth (max buffs) and then follow immediately with heavy attack cancelled with Poison Injection. They all land at pretty much the same time and you can get about 25k/30k in 1sec. If they survive then they have poison status effect (which is decent now its duration is reduced) and Poison Injection dots, along with Major Defile.

    I also normally run minor defile and poison dmg poisons. If the poison goes off then recovery and healing are down by about 67% in total I think (Befoul CP). Some will just die to ravage health, poison or the PI dot, failing that I move and light attack/ Silver Bolts until they die... or until i get jumped by their group.

    TBH though, my connection can lag so hard that even getting that 'combo' to land can be impossible at times.

    Yes agreed, thief is wasted in this case. Warrior is a better choice, we can go for Lover if we are not using Spriggan's, as not everyone has high resistances.
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