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How to fix PVP
MurderMostFoul
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1. Remove CP from PvP
2. Give everyone two "loadouts"
The removal of CP from PvP would help solve many balance problems. Obviously, it would fix the power gap caused by players with disparate CP totals. It would also eliminate all of the problematic, unkillable builds CP leads to. As a corollary, it would also help balance PvE as CPs could be exclusively balanced around PvE content. Players would still have the enjoyment of CP progression, without all of the problems it causes for PvP.
By "loadout," I am referring to a complete skill and CP allocation. Removing CP from PvP would create a problem in forcing players to respec every time they switched between PvP and PvE. Having two "loadouts" that are preset by the player and can be switched between at the click of a button without any resource cost would remove this problem. Players who want to PvP and PvE would have one "loadout" for each. Players who still only want to PvE would have two different builds two easily swap between.
Can we please make this happen, and solve all of our problems?
2. Give everyone two "loadouts"
The removal of CP from PvP would help solve many balance problems. Obviously, it would fix the power gap caused by players with disparate CP totals. It would also eliminate all of the problematic, unkillable builds CP leads to. As a corollary, it would also help balance PvE as CPs could be exclusively balanced around PvE content. Players would still have the enjoyment of CP progression, without all of the problems it causes for PvP.
By "loadout," I am referring to a complete skill and CP allocation. Removing CP from PvP would create a problem in forcing players to respec every time they switched between PvP and PvE. Having two "loadouts" that are preset by the player and can be switched between at the click of a button without any resource cost would remove this problem. Players who want to PvP and PvE would have one "loadout" for each. Players who still only want to PvE would have two different builds two easily swap between.
Can we please make this happen, and solve all of our problems?
“There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.”
2
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Taylor_MB✭✭✭✭✭
✭Prepare for the "but I earned my CP" crowd...
And the "but there is no progression without CP" posse....
And finally the "but I deserve a statistical advantage because I've played longer" crutch needers...PvP Defensive Set Comparison
Firestarter MagDK 1vX - build and gamplay!
LagPlar Ranged Lag Proof(ish) Magplar - build and gamplay!
ShadowGaurd MagBlade Group Utility Tank - build and gamplay!
Oncoming Storm No-CP 11.6k Ward MagSorc - build and gamplay!
My YouTube Chanel2 -
MurderMostFoul✭✭✭✭✭
✭Prepare for the "but I earned my CP" crowd...
And the "but there is no progression without CP" posse....
And finally the "but I deserve a statistical advantage because I've played longer" crutch needers...
They will still have all of that, in PvE.“There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.”0 -
Maikon✭✭✭✭MurderMostFoul wrote: »1. Remove CP from PvP
2. Give everyone two "loadouts"
The removal of CP from PvP would help solve many balance problems. Obviously, it would fix the power gap caused by players with disparate CP totals. It would also eliminate all of the problematic, unkillable builds CP leads to. As a corollary, it would also help balance PvE as CPs could be exclusively balanced around PvE content. Players would still have the enjoyment of CP progression, without all of the problems it causes for PvP.
By "loadout," I am referring to a complete skill and CP allocation. Removing CP from PvP would create a problem in forcing players to respec every time they switched between PvP and PvE. Having two "loadouts" that are preset by the player and can be switched between at the click of a button without any resource cost would remove this problem. Players who want to PvP and PvE would have one "loadout" for each. Players who still only want to PvE would have two different builds two easily swap between.
Can we please make this happen, and solve all of our problems?
"Remove CP from PVP"....... it's called Sotha Sil5 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭i disagree.
this is not how to fix pvp.
the way to fix pvp is to "properly balance the classes'.2 -
Maikon✭✭✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »i disagree.
this is not how to fix pvp.
the way to fix pvp is to "properly balance the classes'.
Everyone needs to stop talking about "balancing classes" because it's never actually gonna happen as long as people constantly cry for nerfs.1 -
MurderMostFoul✭✭✭✭✭
✭MurderMostFoul wrote: »1. Remove CP from PvP
2. Give everyone two "loadouts"
The removal of CP from PvP would help solve many balance problems. Obviously, it would fix the power gap caused by players with disparate CP totals. It would also eliminate all of the problematic, unkillable builds CP leads to. As a corollary, it would also help balance PvE as CPs could be exclusively balanced around PvE content. Players would still have the enjoyment of CP progression, without all of the problems it causes for PvP.
By "loadout," I am referring to a complete skill and CP allocation. Removing CP from PvP would create a problem in forcing players to respec every time they switched between PvP and PvE. Having two "loadouts" that are preset by the player and can be switched between at the click of a button without any resource cost would remove this problem. Players who want to PvP and PvE would have one "loadout" for each. Players who still only want to PvE would have two different builds two easily swap between.
Can we please make this happen, and solve all of our problems?
"Remove CP from PVP"....... it's called Sotha Sil
Yes, one place where PVP is for more balanced. But there is a low player base because everyone gravitates towards the CP campaigns with higher population, not necessarily better than play.“There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.”0 -
MurderMostFoul✭✭✭✭✭
✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »i disagree.
this is not how to fix pvp.
the way to fix pvp is to "properly balance the classes'.
Having CP only be for PvE will drastically increase the ability to balance the classes for both PvP and PvE.“There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.”0 -
Maikon✭✭✭✭MurderMostFoul wrote: »dwemer_paleologist wrote: »i disagree.
this is not how to fix pvp.
the way to fix pvp is to "properly balance the classes'.
Having CP only be for PvE will drastically increase the ability to balance the classes for both PvP and PvE.
There's no way you can have CP be only for PVE in a game that was sold and advertised as a PVP game. Nor can you segregate PVE from PVP.2 -
MurderMostFoul✭✭✭✭✭
✭MurderMostFoul wrote: »dwemer_paleologist wrote: »i disagree.
this is not how to fix pvp.
the way to fix pvp is to "properly balance the classes'.
Having CP only be for PvE will drastically increase the ability to balance the classes for both PvP and PvE.
There's no way you can have CP be only for PVE in a game that was sold and advertised as a PVP game. Nor can you segregate PVE from PVP.
Why not? There was no CP at launch.
“There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.”1 -
Maikon✭✭✭✭MurderMostFoul wrote: »MurderMostFoul wrote: »dwemer_paleologist wrote: »i disagree.
this is not how to fix pvp.
the way to fix pvp is to "properly balance the classes'.
Having CP only be for PvE will drastically increase the ability to balance the classes for both PvP and PvE.
There's no way you can have CP be only for PVE in a game that was sold and advertised as a PVP game. Nor can you segregate PVE from PVP.
Why not? There was no CP at launch.
Why? Because first and foremost, this is a pvp game, such as was advertised and sold. Secondly, ZOS can't tell the player base they can't use the cp they've earned in pvp, they know that would impact their pockets hard, and there is a reason there's both non-cp and cp campaigns. And lastly, but more important, no one cares if the balances they do affect pve, only pvp matters.Edited by Maikon on October 14, 2017 7:30PM1 -
MurderMostFoul✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Why? Because first and foremost, this is a pvp game, such as was advertised and sold.
For the sake of rational discussion, I hope we can acknowledge that this game is equally a PvP and PvE game, if not favoring PvE.
And lastly, but more important, no one cares if the balances they do affect pve, only pvp matters.
Adressing this out of order, and referring back to my point above, let's be rational and acknowledge that loads of players care about PvE. I don't care about PvE, and clearly you don't either. But ZOS would decimate the player base by ignoring it.
Secondly, ZOS can't tell the player base they can't use the cp they've earned in pvp, they know that would impact their pockets hard, and there is a reason there's both non-cp and cp campaigns.
So we come to your most rational point: "You can't take my CP, I earned them." My suggestion does not take your CP entirely as they would still be available in PvE. But for those who only care about PvP, I would hope that they would prefer the most balanced PvP possible, PvP that is available to the widest player base. That PvP is no CP PvP.
“There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.”1 -
MurderMostFoul✭✭✭✭✭
✭How to kill the game.
FTFY. Go play overwatch if you want themepark PvP.
How does my suggestion kill the game?
The 2 loadouts suggestion would clearly help everyone.
If there is a reason why you believe removing CP from PvP would kill the game, please explain. And please offer more than "I earned my CP, you can't take it from me."“There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.”0 -
Maikon✭✭✭✭MurderMostFoul wrote: »
Why? Because first and foremost, this is a pvp game, such as was advertised and sold.
For the sake of rational discussion, I hope we can acknowledge that this game is equally a PvP and PvE game, if not favoring PvE.
And lastly, but more important, no one cares if the balances they do affect pve, only pvp matters.
Adressing this out of order, and referring back to my point above, let's be rational and acknowledge that loads of players care about PvE. I don't care about PvE, and clearly you don't either. But ZOS would decimate the player base by ignoring it.
Secondly, ZOS can't tell the player base they can't use the cp they've earned in pvp, they know that would impact their pockets hard, and there is a reason there's both non-cp and cp campaigns.
So we come to your most rational point: "You can't take my CP, I earned them." My suggestion does not take your CP entirely as they would still be available in PvE. But for those who only care about PvP, I would hope that they would prefer the most balanced PvP possible, PvP that is available to the widest player base. That PvP is no CP PvP.
Every time they do try and balance pvp with pve, you have this certain pvp "population" that likes to cry and whine and get skills nerfed because they don't have the ability to actually pvp, which then affects pve. And when that happens, you have the pve'ers complaining about nerfs and zos goes adjusting the skills again which makes the certain pvp "population" say they are broken and need to be nerfed. It's a never ending cycle. How about people just stfu and leave the skills alone.
As an example. If you get ganked by 20 and die to EotS, it's not the skills fault you died, you died because 20 *** people *** you. Don't blame the skill and call for nerfs.Edited by Maikon on October 14, 2017 9:53PM1 -
MurderMostFoul✭✭✭✭✭
✭MurderMostFoul wrote: »
Why? Because first and foremost, this is a pvp game, such as was advertised and sold.
For the sake of rational discussion, I hope we can acknowledge that this game is equally a PvP and PvE game, if not favoring PvE.
And lastly, but more important, no one cares if the balances they do affect pve, only pvp matters.
Adressing this out of order, and referring back to my point above, let's be rational and acknowledge that loads of players care about PvE. I don't care about PvE, and clearly you don't either. But ZOS would decimate the player base by ignoring it.
Secondly, ZOS can't tell the player base they can't use the cp they've earned in pvp, they know that would impact their pockets hard, and there is a reason there's both non-cp and cp campaigns.
So we come to your most rational point: "You can't take my CP, I earned them." My suggestion does not take your CP entirely as they would still be available in PvE. But for those who only care about PvP, I would hope that they would prefer the most balanced PvP possible, PvP that is available to the widest player base. That PvP is no CP PvP.
Every time they do try and balance pvp with pve, you have this certain pvp "population" that likes to cry and whine and get skills nerfed because they don't have the ability to actually pvp, which then affects pve. And when that happens, you have the pve'ers complaining about nerfs and zos goes adjusting the skills again which makes the certain pvp "population" say they are broken and need to be nerfed. It's a never ending cycle. How about people just stfu and leave the skills alone.
As an example. If you get ganked by 20 and die to EotS, it's not the skills fault you died, you died because 20 *** people *** you. Don't blame the skill and call for nerfs.
All valid points, but how are they germane to my original proposal?“There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.”0 -
Maikon✭✭✭✭MurderMostFoul wrote: »MurderMostFoul wrote: »
Why? Because first and foremost, this is a pvp game, such as was advertised and sold.
For the sake of rational discussion, I hope we can acknowledge that this game is equally a PvP and PvE game, if not favoring PvE.
And lastly, but more important, no one cares if the balances they do affect pve, only pvp matters.
Adressing this out of order, and referring back to my point above, let's be rational and acknowledge that loads of players care about PvE. I don't care about PvE, and clearly you don't either. But ZOS would decimate the player base by ignoring it.
Secondly, ZOS can't tell the player base they can't use the cp they've earned in pvp, they know that would impact their pockets hard, and there is a reason there's both non-cp and cp campaigns.
So we come to your most rational point: "You can't take my CP, I earned them." My suggestion does not take your CP entirely as they would still be available in PvE. But for those who only care about PvP, I would hope that they would prefer the most balanced PvP possible, PvP that is available to the widest player base. That PvP is no CP PvP.
Every time they do try and balance pvp with pve, you have this certain pvp "population" that likes to cry and whine and get skills nerfed because they don't have the ability to actually pvp, which then affects pve. And when that happens, you have the pve'ers complaining about nerfs and zos goes adjusting the skills again which makes the certain pvp "population" say they are broken and need to be nerfed. It's a never ending cycle. How about people just stfu and leave the skills alone.
As an example. If you get ganked by 20 and die to EotS, it's not the skills fault you died, you died because 20 *** people *** you. Don't blame the skill and call for nerfs.
All valid points, but how are they germane to my original proposal?
The removal of CP from PVP won't fix anything. There will never be complete balance in any MMO.
And saying it will remove the power gap in pvp is *** bs. No new player in pvp should ever be on par with a vet, and even suggesting that is you pissing on everyone who's worked hard for what they have. This is an MMO, if you want something, you need to put *** time in it like everyone else, not have it given to you, *** that.Edited by Maikon on October 14, 2017 10:26PM0 -
MurderMostFoul✭✭✭✭✭
✭Idk, you can have a successful MMO with PvP parity, see GW2. Being given a straight numerical advantage just for playing for a longer time is fine for PvE, but not ideal for PvP in my opinion.“There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.”0 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MurderMostFoul wrote: »How to kill the game.
FTFY. Go play overwatch if you want themepark PvP.
How does my suggestion kill the game?
The 2 loadouts suggestion would clearly help everyone.
If there is a reason why you believe removing CP from PvP would kill the game, please explain. And please offer more than "I earned my CP, you can't take it from me."
Because this is an MMO that prides itself on customization. This *** would make half the game irrelevant. Clearly help everyone my arse. Have fun playing this cookie cutter build of rock paper scissors. I wouldn't mind pure battle leveling for PvP, where they can have cap CP. Since it unfortunately makes such a difference (Gear, skills etc would be same, worked for.)
CP is ***, utter dog ***. The way its done just has a silly creep of inane strength that ends up with everyone being an unkillable ***. They increase the cap, power gets too high, they nerf... Yet through all that, CP is still a necessary method of progression, unless you want the forced gear resets every rank like before. Because that wasn't trash. Oh yeah, it was.
CP should instead be a method to raise the skill cap with more things based on timing or setup like unchained, or exploiter, along with some QoL. Not the statfest we have now.Edited by ak_pvp on October 15, 2017 3:47AMMagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.0 -
kaithuzar✭✭✭✭✭
✭I feel like if you got rid of CP in PVP, you would also have to get rid of battle spirit to balance things out.
Or at least adjust it, the health is fine but the decreased damage, not so much.Edited by kaithuzar on October 15, 2017 6:18AMMember of:
Fantasia - osh kosh b-josh
Just Chill - Crown's house
GoldCloaks - Durruthy test server penga
Small Meme Guild - Mano's house
Former member of:
Legend - Siffer fan boy club
TKO (tamriel knight's order) - free bks
Deviance - Leonard's senche tiger
Purple - hamNchz is my hero
Eight Divines - myrlifax stop playing final fantasy
WKB (we kill bosses) - turd where you go?
Arcance Council - Klytz Kommander
World Boss - Mike & Chewy gone EP
M12 (majestic twelve) - cult of the loli zerg0 -
Saint_Bud✭✭✭✭1.5 serverPVP Saint-Bud magicka Templar: AR 49
PVE Lord Victarion mDK : dro'm-Athra-Destroyer pre Morrowind retired for crafting
PVE Ramsay-Bolton magicka NB: Voice of Reason Clockwork City Patch retired
VAA hm/ VHRC hm/ VSO hm/ VMOL hm/ VHOF hm/ VAS hm clear
Stop playing PVE because its boring, content not disigned for melee players and class balance and sustain is ***0 -
budrow✭✭✭If we take CP out then we have less diversity. CP allows for more niche builds. Am I wrong?l PaleAle l0 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The way to fix pvp? Fix performance issues, the classes are fairly well balanced atm.1 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If we take CP out then we have less diversity. CP allows for more niche builds. Am I wrong?
That was ZoS's theory.
But it hasn't worked at that way because ee take the best stars, hybrid builds are dead on arrival, and what were once unique class functions got taken away and made available as generic buffs for everyone.0 -
Skander✭✭✭✭✭
✭As of now i feel removing cp will be a huge nerf to tanks, becouse we all know, sorcs and nb have a huge burst, without cp defenses this is even higher, and recources lowerI meme, but my memes are so truthful they hurt
-Elder Nightblades Online
Want competitive pvp while being outnumbered? Tough luck, the devs clearly said you have to die in those situations0 -
MurderMostFoul✭✭✭✭✭
✭MurderMostFoul wrote: »How to kill the game.
FTFY. Go play overwatch if you want themepark PvP.
How does my suggestion kill the game?
The 2 loadouts suggestion would clearly help everyone.
If there is a reason why you believe removing CP from PvP would kill the game, please explain. And please offer more than "I earned my CP, you can't take it from me."
Because this is an MMO that prides itself on customization. This *** would make half the game irrelevant. Clearly help everyone my arse. Have fun playing this cookie cutter build of rock paper scissors. I wouldn't mind pure battle leveling for PvP, where they can have cap CP. Since it unfortunately makes such a difference (Gear, skills etc would be same, worked for.)
CP is ***, utter dog ***. The way its done just has a silly creep of inane strength that ends up with everyone being an unkillable ***. They increase the cap, power gets too high, they nerf... Yet through all that, CP is still a necessary method of progression, unless you want the forced gear resets every rank like before. Because that wasn't trash. Oh yeah, it was.
CP should instead be a method to raise the skill cap with more things based on timing or setup like unchained, or exploiter, along with some QoL. Not the statfest we have now.
How would having 2 loadouts not help everyone?
And I agree, CP power creep and the constantly moving balance target that it creates is a major problem. That is why I say get rid of it for pvp.
I know people crave a sense of progression, even in PvP. But why rely on a CP system that is, in the end, just a grind, and leads to serious balance problems?“There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.”0 -
Mihael✭✭✭✭MurderMostFoul wrote: »MurderMostFoul wrote: »
Why? Because first and foremost, this is a pvp game, such as was advertised and sold.
For the sake of rational discussion, I hope we can acknowledge that this game is equally a PvP and PvE game, if not favoring PvE.
And lastly, but more important, no one cares if the balances they do affect pve, only pvp matters.
Adressing this out of order, and referring back to my point above, let's be rational and acknowledge that loads of players care about PvE. I don't care about PvE, and clearly you don't either. But ZOS would decimate the player base by ignoring it.
Secondly, ZOS can't tell the player base they can't use the cp they've earned in pvp, they know that would impact their pockets hard, and there is a reason there's both non-cp and cp campaigns.
So we come to your most rational point: "You can't take my CP, I earned them." My suggestion does not take your CP entirely as they would still be available in PvE. But for those who only care about PvP, I would hope that they would prefer the most balanced PvP possible, PvP that is available to the widest player base. That PvP is no CP PvP.
Every time they do try and balance pvp with pve, you have this certain pvp "population" that likes to cry and whine and get skills nerfed because they don't have the ability to actually pvp, which then affects pve. And when that happens, you have the pve'ers complaining about nerfs and zos goes adjusting the skills again which makes the certain pvp "population" say they are broken and need to be nerfed. It's a never ending cycle. How about people just stfu and leave the skills alone.
As an example. If you get ganked by 20 and die to EotS, it's not the skills fault you died, you died because 20 *** people *** you. Don't blame the skill and call for nerfs.
All valid points, but how are they germane to my original proposal?
The removal of CP from PVP won't fix anything. There will never be complete balance in any MMO.
And saying it will remove the power gap in pvp is *** bs. No new player in pvp should ever be on par with a vet, and even suggesting that is you pissing on everyone who's worked hard for what they have. This is an MMO, if you want something, you need to put *** time in it like everyone else, not have it given to you, *** that.
Lol idk who made you so salty but don't take it out on op.
1. Idk how this game was marketed but it's definitely not a. Mainly PVP game
2. There's a huge pve crowd so saying balances that effect pve don't matter is just dumb
3. Although some calls for nerfs are just bad players complaining there are a lot of skills that do need nerfs and it's not the players fault that zos instead of actually fixing the skills/classes they just nerf them to the groundEdited by Mihael on October 15, 2017 6:05PM0 -
FearlessOne_2014✭✭✭✭✭
✭MurderMostFoul wrote: »Idk, you can have a successful MMO with PvP parity, see GW2. Being given a straight numerical advantage just for playing for a longer time is fine for PvE, but not ideal for PvP in my opinion.
Yup and this tells me that you not only play's GW2, but also you don't even keep up with the game.
GW2 is the prime example of how not to run a MMO. It's PvP and WvW modes are soo bad. That players are just not playing. ANet had to put in nearly free ascended and legendary gear into those game modes. Just to convince players to afk earn rewards.
I'm pretty sure every current and future MMO company. Will use GW2 as a prime example of how not to develope your MMO. GW2 has some of the worst PvP and RvR action in the genre. Yet you compared GW2's PvP to a successful MMO with PvP. I'm sorry but not sorry, I just don't know if I should even laugh or be concerned about you.0 -
Bhaal5✭✭✭✭✭
✭FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »MurderMostFoul wrote: »Idk, you can have a successful MMO with PvP parity, see GW2. Being given a straight numerical advantage just for playing for a longer time is fine for PvE, but not ideal for PvP in my opinion.
Yup and this tells me that you not only play's GW2, but also you don't even keep up with the game.
GW2 is the prime example of how not to run a MMO. It's PvP and WvW modes are soo bad. That players are just not playing. ANet had to put in nearly free ascended and legendary gear into those game modes. Just to convince players to afk earn rewards.
I'm pretty sure every current and future MMO company. Will use GW2 as a prime example of how not to develope your MMO. GW2 has some of the worst PvP and RvR action in the genre. Yet you compared GW2's PvP to a successful MMO with PvP. I'm sorry but not sorry, I just don't know if I should even laugh or be concerned about you.
I disagree
-Account locking to servers stops unbalanced numbers switching sides mid fight. When something get tough, just go to a buff campaign.
-Tournament style wvw. Makes more sense (more so post one tamerial) and keeps people interested in actually sticking with wvw. Not this joke.
-their servers work for people across the whole world, just just america (my ms goes from 120-150 in gw2 to over 350+ in eso). The lag is just not there jumped on to my old server there last week (maguuma) and found small groups (5 small teams of 4 working together) working with a large group (over 60 people) and was able to join that fight without getting frozen and thrown out? I personally have not had that experience since returning to eso on console over 18 months ago, come across a group of 5 and 4 times out of 6 will be dc'd. Its a laggy mess.
-Battlegrounds is a carbon copy of gw2 pvp with a few "extra" thing, Just 3 years to late.
-cp in campaigns are fine, just the campaigns themselves are out of date and stale.
-could go on about housing (only 24 people) vs guild housing (your whole guild of 500), eso trials (glitchy as f###) vs gw2 trials/fructurals (smooth), gw2 trading house (simple and easy) vs eso guild traders (ridged, glitchy) , gw2 guild missions and social interactions vs eso's ....... Just what eso doesnt have anything there yet, sure they will 5 year after release?
-Dlc releases ontime, no server shut off, no laggy mess. Morrowind? Wasnt even release in a quarter of my guilds countries?
Only thing i slightly agree with you with is their gear system. Eso stupifies it, which i dont mind so i dont have to worry about thinking so much on gear and just get it and start playing.
Bit sorry im concern about you liking a broken mess which enables cheating, troll behaviors and a laggy joke of a "megaservers".
Pretty sure eso is the example of how not to run your mmos infrastructure and game modes.2
