Deconstruct all your heavy armour it's useless again.

Jade1986

Rex-Umbra wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Rex-Umbra wrote: »

Gina just said on ESO live they are removing the wrath passive next update.

HA has been nerfed every patch since Dark brotherhood.

Light and Medium will now be best for all roles and situations and Heavy is back to being useless.

Heavy only has slightly more resistances than medium without evasion, dodge, damage, reduction, recovery. Light armour has damage, cost reduction/recovery, penetration and a shield (s).

Ha has never been OP, certain sets have been and the main thing that caused hard to kill builds is battle spirit and players going all out in block cost reduction who have no damage to kill.

Nearly 10 k more resistance is not slightly, and heavy is SUPPOSED to be tanking gear, not dps gear, when they turned it into a pseudo dps gear it threw everything out of balance. HA in its current state is indeed op -AF- , you get damage, mitigation, healing, health regen, more regen through hits, regen from being hit, and more damage from being hit.

Personally I hope they re add the block passive, so we can put those whole dps tank nonsense behind us.

10k? Medium is 75% of heavy. 10k in medium is 12.5 in heavy.

I wear all medium, full heavy is more than 12,5 k.

Valencer

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Jawasa wrote: »

@Rex-Umbra but heavy outperforms medium on every stamina build unless it's a gankblade pretty much for magicka it's more balanced more a question of what role you plan to play.

Lets wait and see what they replace wrath with.

No it doesn't not in PVP or in PVE.

In what universe?

The current meta is pretty much heavy >>> medium unless youre a stamblade.

Anti_Virus

Conduit0 wrote: »

The problem is not heavy armor no matter how much you cry babies whine about it. The problem is the simple fact that light and medium armor do not offer sufficient benefits to out weigh the lack of defense in pvp and no amount of nerfing heavy armor will change that.

The truly laughable part is that getting rid of the wrath passive won't change a thing. Wrath only becomes useful if you can fully stack it and the only players who have any chance of making to max stack and still be alive are permablock tanks and guess what folks, people who build for permablock do jack all for damage even with wrath at max stack.

Even after this nerf get ready for more Heavy QQ this is a L2P issue.

D0PAMINE

So for pve I have a MagDK in Rattlecage, is this going to alter my build negativly? Its a solo toon mostly but I use it as a support role helping new players learn dungeon mechanics.

akredon_ESO

@D0PAMINE I doubt its going to change anything

D0PAMINE

akredon_ESO wrote: »

@D0PAMINE I doubt its going to change anything

Thanks

itscompton

Jeremy wrote: »

CalmFury wrote: »

People need to die in PvP.

People not dying in PvP makes it boring as hell. People not dying made Destro ulti bombing groups the only way to actually make huge AP.

Me, a PvE healer with 300ms lag and no experience in PvP, could make a heavy armor Templar healer and need 5 or more people hitting me relentlessly at the same time to die and STILL put out some serious heals and damage. I would only die for EotS stacking and been zerged down.

Heavy armor had too much going for it. I had survivability, sustain AND damage/heals WHILE being able to use Harness.

Those changes are not good, they are AWESOME.

Now we just need some Medium armor adjusting to make it suck less and PvP might have some MEANINGFUL choices again.

Awesome job, Zenimax! 1 year too late, but better late than sorry.

Wearing heavy armor doesn't make it take 5 people relentlessly hitting you at the same time for you die. Not even close.

You can still die - easily - in seconds while wearing full heavy armor. I know this from personal experience.

So what ever player it is you are fighting that takes 5 relentless players to kill you can be certain it's not the heavy armor doing it but something else. Because I've been reading this thread and the benefits of Heavy Armor are being absurdly exaggerated here. It doesn't even give players a fraction of the invincibility that's being touted.

Truth, with 28k spell/26k Physical resistance and 3700 crit resist and 30K health I still come across players with so much stacked into penetration they can kill me in just a couple of seconds if they stun/fear me or I'm out of stam to block (which happens a lot since I'm a magtemp).

Yubarius

Can someone please link a clip from the stream of them saying this?

Xsorus

What’s funny is heavy armor isn’t meta. People who say it’s meta are generally duelers who think that’s what everyone is running in cyrodiil.

The two most played classes in cyrodiil which outnumber everyone else is sorcs and nightblades.... neither class runs heavy armor in their builds usually.

If the two most played classes aren’t running it, it’s not meta. Now Templars will run it somewhat, but honestly light is beat on magicka Templar vs heavy and stamina is 50/50 I think.

That leaves pretty much heavy armor on DKs.. that’s who this nerf is primarily going to hit cause both magicka and stamina run heavy in pvp generally.

That’s who they’re nerfing... a class that’s eaten multiple nerfs this patch

Arobain

get out of your meta mindset my friend everything is useful, this game is not a job, dont treat it like one

ak_pvp

ITT Idiots who don't know the problem with HA.

Psst, 200 wp dmg isn't it. Its the ability to block forever and use sets that grant lots of damage.

Xsorus

ak_pvp wrote: »

ITT Idiots who don't know the problem with HA.

Psst, 200 wp dmg isn't it. Its the ability to block forever and use sets that grant lots of damage.

I mean you can block forever with light armor if you build right; not sure about medium as I never bothered with it recently in terms of sturdy not would I but people crying about heavy are basically whining that stamina dks and magicka dks are scary.

ak_pvp

Xsorus wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

ITT Idiots who don't know the problem with HA.

Psst, 200 wp dmg isn't it. Its the ability to block forever and use sets that grant lots of damage.

I mean you can block forever with light armor if you build right; not sure about medium as I never bothered with it recently in terms of sturdy not would I but people crying about heavy are basically whining that stamina dks and magicka dks are scary.

Most people see the meta stamDK build that is an unkillable potato in small scale but turns into an unkillable burster against potatos. They then reee and blame it on the nearest thing (heavy, which is kind of meh. I even run light on my DK.) instead of seeing the layers of block, helping them gain procs and sets.

Xsorus

ak_pvp wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

ITT Idiots who don't know the problem with HA.

Psst, 200 wp dmg isn't it. Its the ability to block forever and use sets that grant lots of damage.

I mean you can block forever with light armor if you build right; not sure about medium as I never bothered with it recently in terms of sturdy not would I but people crying about heavy are basically whining that stamina dks and magicka dks are scary.

Most people see the meta stamDK build that is an unkillable potato in small scale but turns into an unkillable burster against potatos. They then reee and blame it on the nearest thing (heavy, which is kind of meh. I even run light on my DK.) instead of seeing the layers of block, helping them gain procs and sets.

I mean the standard stamina dk builds aren’t really block bots though, you generally don’t run sturdy on stamina dk builds unless you’re specifically going tank. The ones that rip potato’s in pvp are relying on ult gain into leap more then anything to kill them.

Think of the nerfs that setup is getting this patch though

Wrath removal
Evasion removal
And the shield ult is getting increased in cost

Are stamina dks really that over performing in pvp that they should eat three hefty nerfs like that?

Cause that’s who’s going to eat the brunt of the nerfs from those nerfed next patch.

I highly suspect they nerf fury as well thus removing stamina dk from the game completely.

Kalante

Xsorus wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

ITT Idiots who don't know the problem with HA.

Psst, 200 wp dmg isn't it. Its the ability to block forever and use sets that grant lots of damage.

I mean you can block forever with light armor if you build right; not sure about medium as I never bothered with it recently in terms of sturdy not would I but people crying about heavy are basically whining that stamina dks and magicka dks are scary.

Most people see the meta stamDK build that is an unkillable potato in small scale but turns into an unkillable burster against potatos. They then reee and blame it on the nearest thing (heavy, which is kind of meh. I even run light on my DK.) instead of seeing the layers of block, helping them gain procs and sets.

I mean the standard stamina dk builds aren’t really block bots though, you generally don’t run sturdy on stamina dk builds unless you’re specifically going tank. The ones that rip potato’s in pvp are relying on ult gain into leap more then anything to kill them.

Think of the nerfs that setup is getting this patch though

Wrath removal
Evasion removal
And the shield ult is getting increased in cost

Are stamina dks really that over performing in pvp that they should eat three hefty nerfs like that?

Cause that’s who’s going to eat the brunt of the nerfs from those nerfed next patch.

I highly suspect they nerf fury as well thus removing stamina dk from the game completely.

Yes. They are tanky and can burst you with dragon leap and the stam warden which is even better than stam dk it's also getting affected by this. No more heavy armor doing burst like medium armor without the precautions of being vulnerable. These are all good changes overall.

Wing

Xsorus wrote: »

What’s funny is heavy armor isn’t meta. People who say it’s meta are generally duelers who think that’s what everyone is running in cyrodiil.

The two most played classes in cyrodiil which outnumber everyone else is sorcs and nightblades.... neither class runs heavy armor in their builds usually.

If the two most played classes aren’t running it, it’s not meta. Now Templars will run it somewhat, but honestly light is beat on magicka Templar vs heavy and stamina is 50/50 I think.

That leaves pretty much heavy armor on DKs.. that’s who this nerf is primarily going to hit cause both magicka and stamina run heavy in pvp generally.

That’s who they’re nerfing... a class that’s eaten multiple nerfs this patch

you know @Xsorus, I got a lot of respect for you, I know you have tried to make DK work through out all that crap we have taken patch after patch after patch.

no class has been nerfed as much

no class is as far from what it started as

no class is as reliant on one type of armor regardless of spec

no class is denied as much core utility, flexibility, and mobility.

I always think back to a knights tale when there all telling him to run imagining its the devs nerfing the class again and its players telling him to change class already. and I reply "NO! I will not run! . . .I am a knight."

+1 for trying to make a legacy class work yo, the game has just changed so much around it. if not for battle roar it would not be played.

Wing

Kalante wrote: »

Yes. They are tanky and can burst you with dragon leap and the stam warden which is even better than stam dk it's also getting affected by this. No more heavy armor doing burst like medium armor without the precautions of being vulnerable. These are all good changes overall.

cept stam warden has built in mobility, better burst, on demand heals, better resource management, less reliance on heavy armor, built in major AND minor protections, better group utility, etc, etc.

Drdeath20

Wing wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

What’s funny is heavy armor isn’t meta. People who say it’s meta are generally duelers who think that’s what everyone is running in cyrodiil.

The two most played classes in cyrodiil which outnumber everyone else is sorcs and nightblades.... neither class runs heavy armor in their builds usually.

If the two most played classes aren’t running it, it’s not meta. Now Templars will run it somewhat, but honestly light is beat on magicka Templar vs heavy and stamina is 50/50 I think.

That leaves pretty much heavy armor on DKs.. that’s who this nerf is primarily going to hit cause both magicka and stamina run heavy in pvp generally.

That’s who they’re nerfing... a class that’s eaten multiple nerfs this patch

you know @Xsorus, I got a lot of respect for you, I know you have tried to make DK work through out all that crap we have taken patch after patch after patch.

no class has been nerfed as much

no class is as far from what it started as

no class is as reliant on one type of armor regardless of spec

no class is denied as much core utility, flexibility, and mobility.

I always think back to a knights tale when there all telling him to run imagining its the devs nerfing the class again and its players telling him to change class already. and I reply "NO! I will not run! . . .I am a knight."

+1 for trying to make a legacy class work yo, the game has just changed so much around it. if not for battle roar it would not be played.

Dragon knights were god mode when they started.

Your complaining about them being nerfed down from that!?!?

Templars are in a much worse spot than dragon knights. World skills have better ultimates, no real form of cc, a broken execute/gap closer/melee spam, everything is a channel or cast time, useless skills (healing ritual and eclipse), we have to waste a skill slot on our passives (repentance/radiant aura), repentance only benefits 1 templar and requires corpses, no mobility, efficient purge > cleanse etc...etc...etc...

Dragon knights are in a good spot. Actually too good of a spot. You want to complain, try playing a templar. There is absolutely nothing special about them anymore.

Pele

This will really ruin the awesome 1k - 2k DPS that PvE tanks output. How are they supposed to carry groups now?

fastolfv_ESO

every group out atm is atleast half 5 heavy if not full, add to it the fact that when groups form up large faction stacks you have 70+ heavy users clumped to mitigate aoe damage with heavy sets that made that passive boost your weapon and spell damage to lvls higher than achievable with light/medium and yah you had a problem that needed to be fixed. Heres hoping whatever adjustments that are coming fix this problem for good

Jade1986

Wing wrote: »

Kalante wrote: »

Yes. They are tanky and can burst you with dragon leap and the stam warden which is even better than stam dk it's also getting affected by this. No more heavy armor doing burst like medium armor without the precautions of being vulnerable. These are all good changes overall.

cept stam warden has built in mobility, better burst, on demand heals, better resource management, less reliance on heavy armor, built in major AND minor protections, better group utility, etc, etc.

DK has major and minor protections, has good resource management, in fact has longer lasting major endurance and intelligence ( or whatever its called ), and warden does not have better group utility. Dunno what game you are playing.

Banana

Its still fine.

Xsorus

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

What’s funny is heavy armor isn’t meta. People who say it’s meta are generally duelers who think that’s what everyone is running in cyrodiil.

The two most played classes in cyrodiil which outnumber everyone else is sorcs and nightblades.... neither class runs heavy armor in their builds usually.

If the two most played classes aren’t running it, it’s not meta. Now Templars will run it somewhat, but honestly light is beat on magicka Templar vs heavy and stamina is 50/50 I think.

That leaves pretty much heavy armor on DKs.. that’s who this nerf is primarily going to hit cause both magicka and stamina run heavy in pvp generally.

That’s who they’re nerfing... a class that’s eaten multiple nerfs this patch

you know @Xsorus, I got a lot of respect for you, I know you have tried to make DK work through out all that crap we have taken patch after patch after patch.

no class has been nerfed as much

no class is as far from what it started as

no class is as reliant on one type of armor regardless of spec

no class is denied as much core utility, flexibility, and mobility.

I always think back to a knights tale when there all telling him to run imagining its the devs nerfing the class again and its players telling him to change class already. and I reply "NO! I will not run! . . .I am a knight."

+1 for trying to make a legacy class work yo, the game has just changed so much around it. if not for battle roar it would not be played.

Dragon knights were god mode when they started.

Your complaining about them being nerfed down from that!?!?

Templars are in a much worse spot than dragon knights. World skills have better ultimates, no real form of cc, a broken execute/gap closer/melee spam, everything is a channel or cast time, useless skills (healing ritual and eclipse), we have to waste a skill slot on our passives (repentance/radiant aura), repentance only benefits 1 templar and requires corpses, no mobility, efficient purge > cleanse etc...etc...etc...

Dragon knights are in a good spot. Actually too good of a spot. You want to complain, try playing a templar. There is absolutely nothing special about them anymore.

I actually play both a stamina and magicka Templar. Actually really like my magicka Templar as it’s quite nasty

Xsorus

fastolfv_ESO wrote: »

every group out atm is atleast half 5 heavy if not full, add to it the fact that when groups form up large faction stacks you have 70+ heavy users clumped to mitigate aoe damage with heavy sets that made that passive boost your weapon and spell damage to lvls higher than achievable with light/medium and yah you had a problem that needed to be fixed. Heres hoping whatever adjustments that are coming fix this problem for good

Ok let’s look at what you just said... every group out there has atleast 5 heavy users... I’m assuming you mean pvp groups of 12 or more? That means probably two dragon knight magicka users, two Templars healing and probably the odd stamina dk. If it’s 12 people total you’re looking at 7 light and medium users split... if it’s greater then that then you have even more of those... so yea....

Next we go to large faction stacks... where you pull a number out of your ass so far I’m surprised you didn’t partially digest your arm.

70 heavy users in one area? Are you kidding me? It’s rare enough to get 70 player faction stacks now.... and you’re suggesting that all 70 are heavy armor users?

If in the future you decide to post please come up with some semblance of reality before ya do...

A stack of 70 heavy users.... bloody hell man

BohnT

laced wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

Kalante wrote: »

Yes. They are tanky and can burst you with dragon leap and the stam warden which is even better than stam dk it's also getting affected by this. No more heavy armor doing burst like medium armor without the precautions of being vulnerable. These are all good changes overall.

cept stam warden has built in mobility, better burst, on demand heals, better resource management, less reliance on heavy armor, built in major AND minor protections, better group utility, etc, etc.

DK has major and minor protections, has good resource management, in fact has longer lasting major endurance and intelligence ( or whatever its called ), and warden does not have better group utility. Dunno what game you are playing.

Are you kidding? Stamdk has no group utility, not a single skill. While stamward offers:
Strong AoE burst heal, multiple heals over time, best heal ult for groups, major protection for every group member, major armor buffs for everyone and a very strong AoE burst
I guess that's nothing after all

Wing

laced wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

Kalante wrote: »

Yes. They are tanky and can burst you with dragon leap and the stam warden which is even better than stam dk it's also getting affected by this. No more heavy armor doing burst like medium armor without the precautions of being vulnerable. These are all good changes overall.

cept stam warden has built in mobility, better burst, on demand heals, better resource management, less reliance on heavy armor, built in major AND minor protections, better group utility, etc, etc.

DK has major and minor protections, has good resource management, in fact has longer lasting major endurance and intelligence ( or whatever its called ), and warden does not have better group utility. Dunno what game you are playing.

playing ESO, how about you?

care to point out where DK major and minor protection are hiding? this is half sarcastic and half serious, I just looked over all the skills and morphs and nope, if your thinking the standard ult guess again it got removed when warden came in (and got added to wardens ult surprise)

all DK has as far as resource restore is two passives in earthen heart, one that restores less then 1k stamina on ability cast (if your stamina you can cast this maybe 3 times if you run tri food or glyphs) and battle roar, the latter is good (though been nerfed over and over) and one of the only reasons DK is still a viable class, but also one of the reasons it has been nerfed over and over. and saying the % resources buffs counts is silly as pots give the same buff.

as far as group utility. . .igneous shield? that's it. . .I mean they have molten armaments but no DK slots it as everyone has it so it wastes a slot.

meanwhile warden has both major and minor protection, minor on its staple armor buff spell that also provides group utility by casting it on allies (bloated spell, does so much) and major on a great pbaoe ult that does decent damage and can stun while providing major protection to self AND allies (group utility)

warden gets stacking resource recovery for having an animal ability in slot (the netch) a no cost ability providing minor (stacking) resource restore (the restores while blocking) and damage buffs or neg effect removal.

mobility and either more damage or more evasion in one skill

group utility in the form of an aforementioned group armor buff, group healing ults, group damage reduction ults, flat heals that can scale with stam or magicka, provide further group utility by increasing health of those effected, AND restore your resource of use when cast as well (that once again works while blocking)

it also has a cheaper longer lasting pseudo version of wings

and has a high damage plus stun that can be frontloaded to stack with other burst (cast sub assault, cirt charge to target, dawnbreaker, etc. bibbity bobbity bacon dead.)

also whomever said 70 people in pvp wearing heavy. . .you just null and void your whole argument in picking a number that clearly demonstrates you neither pvp nor have any clue about pvp to those of us that do.

Girl_Number8

Xsorus wrote: »

What’s funny is heavy armor isn’t meta. People who say it’s meta are generally duelers who think that’s what everyone is running in cyrodiil.

The two most played classes in cyrodiil which outnumber everyone else is sorcs and nightblades.... neither class runs heavy armor in their builds usually.

If the two most played classes aren’t running it, it’s not meta. Now Templars will run it somewhat, but honestly light is beat on magicka Templar vs heavy and stamina is 50/50 I think.

That leaves pretty much heavy armor on DKs.. that’s who this nerf is primarily going to hit cause both magicka and stamina run heavy in pvp generally.

That’s who they’re nerfing... a class that’s eaten multiple nerfs this patch

Yes!! Someone said it, they are killing the support classes that the snowflakes have to work for their kill.

Sry if that was not what you were getting at, wise one.

Jade1986

BohnT wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

Kalante wrote: »

Yes. They are tanky and can burst you with dragon leap and the stam warden which is even better than stam dk it's also getting affected by this. No more heavy armor doing burst like medium armor without the precautions of being vulnerable. These are all good changes overall.

cept stam warden has built in mobility, better burst, on demand heals, better resource management, less reliance on heavy armor, built in major AND minor protections, better group utility, etc, etc.

DK has major and minor protections, has good resource management, in fact has longer lasting major endurance and intelligence ( or whatever its called ), and warden does not have better group utility. Dunno what game you are playing.

Are you kidding? Stamdk has no group utility, not a single skill. While stamward offers:
Strong AoE burst heal, multiple heals over time, best heal ult for groups, major protection for every group member, major armor buffs for everyone and a very strong AoE burst
I guess that's nothing after all

Um, lets see you have a group utility to give everyone shields, give everyone major brutality and sorcery, one of your ultimates gives a super strong shield to all allies, you have a strong aoe burst as well, leap.

the heal ultimate is not the best, it is cheapest, and is getting nerfed, but the templar and resto staff ones are far better.

Wing wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

Kalante wrote: »

Yes. They are tanky and can burst you with dragon leap and the stam warden which is even better than stam dk it's also getting affected by this. No more heavy armor doing burst like medium armor without the precautions of being vulnerable. These are all good changes overall.

cept stam warden has built in mobility, better burst, on demand heals, better resource management, less reliance on heavy armor, built in major AND minor protections, better group utility, etc, etc.

DK has major and minor protections, has good resource management, in fact has longer lasting major endurance and intelligence ( or whatever its called ), and warden does not have better group utility. Dunno what game you are playing.

playing ESO, how about you?

care to point out where DK major and minor protection are hiding? this is half sarcastic and half serious, I just looked over all the skills and morphs and nope, if your thinking the standard ult guess again it got removed when warden came in (and got added to wardens ult surprise)

all DK has as far as resource restore is two passives in earthen heart, one that restores less then 1k stamina on ability cast (if your stamina you can cast this maybe 3 times if you run tri food or glyphs) and battle roar, the latter is good (though been nerfed over and over) and one of the only reasons DK is still a viable class, but also one of the reasons it has been nerfed over and over. and saying the % resources buffs counts is silly as pots give the same buff.

as far as group utility. . .igneous shield? that's it. . .I mean they have molten armaments but no DK slots it as everyone has it so it wastes a slot.

meanwhile warden has both major and minor protection, minor on its staple armor buff spell that also provides group utility by casting it on allies (bloated spell, does so much) and major on a great pbaoe ult that does decent damage and can stun while providing major protection to self AND allies (group utility)

warden gets stacking resource recovery for having an animal ability in slot (the netch) a no cost ability providing minor (stacking) resource restore (the restores while blocking) and damage buffs or neg effect removal.

mobility and either more damage or more evasion in one skill

group utility in the form of an aforementioned group armor buff, group healing ults, group damage reduction ults, flat heals that can scale with stam or magicka, provide further group utility by increasing health of those effected, AND restore your resource of use when cast as well (that once again works while blocking)

it also has a cheaper longer lasting pseudo version of wings

and has a high damage plus stun that can be frontloaded to stack with other burst (cast sub assault, cirt charge to target, dawnbreaker, etc. bibbity bobbity bacon dead.)

also whomever said 70 people in pvp wearing heavy. . .you just null and void your whole argument in picking a number that clearly demonstrates you neither pvp nor have any clue about pvp to those of us that do.

Warden was meant to be a hybrid class, are you really surprised they have heals, group utility and damage? Also, your ultimates restore all of your resources to a point, so that is worth mentioning. You are literally ignoring everything dk has going for it and only looking at the positives of warden only. If we didnt have sub assault, we would be worthless as dd stam melee. Les not forget dk has an ultimate that causes all your physical damage to ignore enemies resistances, like mark, if you only use one ultimate, that really is your own fault.

BohnT

laced wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

Kalante wrote: »

Yes. They are tanky and can burst you with dragon leap and the stam warden which is even better than stam dk it's also getting affected by this. No more heavy armor doing burst like medium armor without the precautions of being vulnerable. These are all good changes overall.

cept stam warden has built in mobility, better burst, on demand heals, better resource management, less reliance on heavy armor, built in major AND minor protections, better group utility, etc, etc.

DK has major and minor protections, has good resource management, in fact has longer lasting major endurance and intelligence ( or whatever its called ), and warden does not have better group utility. Dunno what game you are playing.

Are you kidding? Stamdk has no group utility, not a single skill. While stamward offers:
Strong AoE burst heal, multiple heals over time, best heal ult for groups, major protection for every group member, major armor buffs for everyone and a very strong AoE burst
I guess that's nothing after all

Um, lets see you have a group utility to give everyone shields, give everyone major brutality and sorcery, one of your ultimates gives a super strong shield to all allies, you have a strong aoe burst as well, leap.

the heal ultimate is not the best, it is cheapest, and is getting nerfed, but the templar and resto staff ones are far better.

Wing wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

Kalante wrote: »

Yes. They are tanky and can burst you with dragon leap and the stam warden which is even better than stam dk it's also getting affected by this. No more heavy armor doing burst like medium armor without the precautions of being vulnerable. These are all good changes overall.

cept stam warden has built in mobility, better burst, on demand heals, better resource management, less reliance on heavy armor, built in major AND minor protections, better group utility, etc, etc.

DK has major and minor protections, has good resource management, in fact has longer lasting major endurance and intelligence ( or whatever its called ), and warden does not have better group utility. Dunno what game you are playing.

playing ESO, how about you?

care to point out where DK major and minor protection are hiding? this is half sarcastic and half serious, I just looked over all the skills and morphs and nope, if your thinking the standard ult guess again it got removed when warden came in (and got added to wardens ult surprise)

all DK has as far as resource restore is two passives in earthen heart, one that restores less then 1k stamina on ability cast (if your stamina you can cast this maybe 3 times if you run tri food or glyphs) and battle roar, the latter is good (though been nerfed over and over) and one of the only reasons DK is still a viable class, but also one of the reasons it has been nerfed over and over. and saying the % resources buffs counts is silly as pots give the same buff.

as far as group utility. . .igneous shield? that's it. . .I mean they have molten armaments but no DK slots it as everyone has it so it wastes a slot.

meanwhile warden has both major and minor protection, minor on its staple armor buff spell that also provides group utility by casting it on allies (bloated spell, does so much) and major on a great pbaoe ult that does decent damage and can stun while providing major protection to self AND allies (group utility)

warden gets stacking resource recovery for having an animal ability in slot (the netch) a no cost ability providing minor (stacking) resource restore (the restores while blocking) and damage buffs or neg effect removal.

mobility and either more damage or more evasion in one skill

group utility in the form of an aforementioned group armor buff, group healing ults, group damage reduction ults, flat heals that can scale with stam or magicka, provide further group utility by increasing health of those effected, AND restore your resource of use when cast as well (that once again works while blocking)

it also has a cheaper longer lasting pseudo version of wings

and has a high damage plus stun that can be frontloaded to stack with other burst (cast sub assault, cirt charge to target, dawnbreaker, etc. bibbity bobbity bacon dead.)

also whomever said 70 people in pvp wearing heavy. . .you just null and void your whole argument in picking a number that clearly demonstrates you neither pvp nor have any clue about pvp to those of us that do.

Warden was meant to be a hybrid class, are you really surprised they have heals, group utility and damage? Also, your ultimates restore all of your resources to a point, so that is worth mentioning. You are literally ignoring everything dk has going for it and only looking at the positives of warden only. If we didnt have sub assault, we would be worthless as dd stam melee. Les not forget dk has an ultimate that causes all your physical damage to ignore enemies resistances, like mark, if you only use one ultimate, that really is your own fault.

the shield gives 2k shields in cyro if you have a balanced build, no on uses molten armaments on a stamdk when you Need Rally for the burst heal. Leap and Bugs are completely different, Bugs can be used every 3 seconds while you Need much longer to use 1 leap. You talk about the magicka Morph of the ult that again no dk uses because it's way too expensive, bugged 99% of the time you use it and is outclassed by shield ult.

The trees are so cheap that you can spam them back to back meaning you have 100% uptime on a defensive ult that makes you and your group unkillable in a 1v5 against mediocre Players.

if you compare a 50% health shield to Major protection for anyone you have no idea how good Major protection is.
and on the right build your mushrooms will crit for 7k in cyro a AoE heal, if you want to give a 7k shield with igneous shield you have to have 80k+ health and that means 0 Group Utility outside of shield spam, while warden has
great heal, great dmg great Utility with good sustain on a balanced build no other stamspec can Keep up with this

Valencer

laced wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

Kalante wrote: »

Yes. They are tanky and can burst you with dragon leap and the stam warden which is even better than stam dk it's also getting affected by this. No more heavy armor doing burst like medium armor without the precautions of being vulnerable. These are all good changes overall.

cept stam warden has built in mobility, better burst, on demand heals, better resource management, less reliance on heavy armor, built in major AND minor protections, better group utility, etc, etc.

DK has major and minor protections, has good resource management, in fact has longer lasting major endurance and intelligence ( or whatever its called ), and warden does not have better group utility. Dunno what game you are playing.

Are you kidding? Stamdk has no group utility, not a single skill. While stamward offers:
Strong AoE burst heal, multiple heals over time, best heal ult for groups, major protection for every group member, major armor buffs for everyone and a very strong AoE burst
I guess that's nothing after all

Um, lets see you have a group utility to give everyone shields, give everyone major brutality and sorcery, one of your ultimates gives a super strong shield to all allies, you have a strong aoe burst as well, leap.

Are you for real?

So youve tried igneous shield in actual PvP and decided you really like giving 5 nearby allies a 1k damage shield? And youve tried magma shell (the magicka morph on a stam DK, I might add) in actual PvP and decided you really like the big damage shield that gets applied to people that stand less than 5 metres away from you?

I really don't think you know what you're talking about