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Cash for Gold.
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ArchMikem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »Storymaster wrote: »The PLEX system for Eve has worked successfully for years and years now. It's often boggled me that this hasn't been implemented already.
Probably relevant to remember that EVE is a fully PvP enabled game. If you encounter goldsellers in that game, you can hunt them down and kill them. ESO... not so much. It also doesn't share that prey on the weak mentality which drives EVE's high level play.
Even in PvP, ESO is a primarily cooperative game, EVE is a primarily competitive one.
EvE is such a toxic hell hole it makes ESO look like a daycare playground.CP2,100 Master Explorer - AvA One Star General - Console Peasant - Khajiiti Aficionado - The Clan
Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!5 -
Danksta✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭You're oblivious if you only have a hunch that people are selling gold for real money. I see gold sellers everyday in /zone.BawKinTackWarDs PS4/NA0 -
Apherius✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭i though the better poll i have ever seen was the one about allowing a 5th member to enter in dungeons, but now i think it's yours.0 -
rotaugen454✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I see people holding signs advertising Cash 4 Gold on street corners. I had no idea this is what it was. They stand near a store by the same name. I wonder if they only sell ESO gold, or is it WoW and other games too?"Get off my lawn!"2 -
Colecovision✭✭✭✭✭
✭To everyone suggesting you could pay to win if you could buy gold, help me out. I am a stam nightblade kajit with a million in gold and I could create a million more quickly if needed. What is the process for turning my in game gold into improved dps?1 -
Storymaster✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »Storymaster wrote: »The PLEX system for Eve has worked successfully for years and years now. It's often boggled me that this hasn't been implemented already.
Probably relevant to remember that EVE is a fully PvP enabled game. If you encounter goldsellers in that game, you can hunt them down and kill them. ESO... not so much. It also doesn't share that prey on the weak mentality which drives EVE's high level play.
Even in PvP, ESO is a primarily cooperative game, EVE is a primarily competitive one.
This has no bearing on the functionality of PLEX. You're talking about using open world pvp to deal with goldsellers. I am not.
PLEX allows EVE players to purchase something with in-game currency that will pay for their subscription. Were a similar program to be launched for ESO, folks could purchase something with in-game gold that would pay for their ESO-PLUS membership.
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Motherball✭✭✭✭Only way to curb gold sellers is to sell it yourself. I cant imagine why anyone would spend money for gold in this game as it is very easy to acquire, but hey, a fool and his money.
If Zenimax had control of how much gold costs and how much gold things cost in the game, the gold sellers would not be able to compete and would eventually go away. Maybe its just me, but gold is just really not important in this game. You can acquire most things yourself or from friends and guildmates. The stuff worth having most cannot even be purchased with gold, in my opinion.It would MASSIVELY impact the economy and cause inflation which would make things too expensive for people not paying for gold.Edited by Motherball on October 12, 2017 5:01PM1 -
Storymaster✭✭✭✭✭One word: PLEX.cash for gold will kill the game.
How is it going to kill the game? This is already going on RIGHT NOW and will continue to go on.It happens in every MMO under the sun It's just a question of who you want providing it--do you want ZOS to provide it and offer some level of control and balance? Or do you want the black market to provide it, which results in a game infested with bots.
It's not that different from the argument on legalizing certain drugs.
One word: PLEX.Colecovision wrote: »To everyone suggesting you could pay to win if you could buy gold, help me out. I am a stam nightblade kajit with a million in gold and I could create a million more quickly if needed. What is the process for turning my in game gold into improved dps?
Exactly my point.
Edited by Storymaster on October 12, 2017 4:53PM2 -
Krayzie✭✭✭✭✭
There is a pretty clear line with what ZoS will actually put in the crown store. Cash for gold goes far beyond that.
It ain't happening.
Pretty clear line? Or just something you made up to state falsely?I'm a PVE roleplayer concerned about my vampires stage 4 skin tone and keep getting load screens so I came here to distract people from major issues with a rant thread about my characters cosmetic appearance.0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Motherball wrote: »Only way to curb gold sellers is to sell it yourself. I cant imagine why anyone would spend money for gold in this game as it is very easy to acquire, but hey, a fool and his money.
If Zenimax had control of how much gold costs and how much gold things cost in the game, the gold sellers would not be able to compete and would eventually go away. Maybe its just me, but gold is just really not important in this game. You can acquire most things yourself or from friends and guildmates. The stuff worth having most cannot even be purchased with gold, in my opinion.It would MASSIVELY impact the economy and cause inflation which would make things too expensive for people not paying for gold.
You're missing the napkin math on the previous page that, effectively, limits how much gold ZOS can offer per crown to around 350. At that point, the Goldsellers are already offering far better rates than ZOS could.0 -
Ardan147✭✭✭✭They should implement a crown/gold exchange, where players can exchange gold for crowns, and vice versa, with other players at some market-based exchange rate. No new gold would be created through this process (and in fact it could be made to operate as a minor gold sink as well if a small percentage of gold is taken as a cut). As new crowns only enter the system through the crown store any money spent would go directly to ZOS. But most importantly, it would take away a significant portion of the gold-sellers' market and therefore profits as well, hopefully dealing a death blow to their "business model".
This creature called a songbird. What a devious creation! This winged nuisance erodes sanity with its incessant chirping. What a brilliant form of torture!0 -
Cpt_Teemo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭They should implement a crown/gold exchange, where players can exchange gold for crowns, and vice versa, with other players at some market-based exchange rate. No new gold would be created through this process (and in fact it could be made to operate as a minor gold sink as well if a small percentage of gold is taken as a cut). As new crowns only enter the system through the crown store any money spent would go directly to ZOS. But most importantly, it would take away a significant portion of the gold-sellers' market and therefore profits as well, hopefully dealing a death blow to their "business model".
Yeah gold sellers don't bother much with WoW anymore cause of the token system now0 -
eso_nya✭✭✭✭✭
✭Buying gold from spambots creates more spambots.
Buying gold from cashshop creates more cashsinks.
Pick the lesser evil?1 -
Sygil05✭✭✭For some reason, I'm still shocked that they don't do anything about all of the gold sellers I see in zone chat (typically Craglorn), every day, spamming their message for hours at a time (on Xbox NA). How the OP has missed these is beyond me...0
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KingMagaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭It is done already, to a certain degree.
I have used mimic stones to make Grim Harlequin and Frost caster items, de-conned the equipment to get the style stone, sell the style zone for gold via trading house. Crown conversion to gold that is a legit in ESO, although not the best way to do it
I would also say that adding in an in game conversion process from Gold to Crowns and vice versa is to the benefit of players but not necessarily the benefit of ZoS, that is why you haven't seen it introduced in game.1 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Storymaster wrote: »This has no bearing on the functionality of PLEX.
In fact, it does. What you may have missed is the way that PLEX builds into the entire design mechanic of EVE, and why it's a necessary feature in the first place.
I get it, you see the opportunity to get something for free, and have plenty of time to grind for it, but that's kinda missing the point here, and demonstrates a shocking lack of understanding when it comes to MMOs as a genre.
EVE is a large, sandbox, environment. More than a game like ESO, in EVE other players are the content. CCP needs players in game, or the entire setup collapses. Let's put this in an extreme example:
If you woke up tomorrow, logged into ESO and found that every other player in the world had mysteriously vanished, you could still play. Somewhere around 95% of the game's content could still be completed (potentially more than that, depending on your skill. Now, other players are a benefit, but they're not absolutely vital.
If you woke up tomorrow, logged into EVE and found that every other player in the world had mysteriously vanished, you'd kinda be stuck there. You could wander around, you could run some of the boiler plate fedex quests, but not much. The entire reason you log in, is to respond to what other players are doing.
Put another way, ESO needs your money more than it needs you; EVE needs you more than they need your money. This isn't about greed, it's fundamental game design. A population collapse wouldn't kill ESO, but the loss of funds would. EVE on the other hand needs live bodies in the seats.
Beyond that, note how PLEX actually encourages you to engage in risky behavior. This is kinda what I was alluding to last night, before I went to bed, but in retrospect that post was unclear. In concept, PLEX is CCP paying you. They're saying, "look, we'll wave your subscription fees, but we need you to do something for us." That something being, you need to move that stuff around to use and trade it, you need to be in game, and you need to contribute to the in-game economy. PLEX is an object in EVE. You can buy it, but to do that you need to either be making enough money to cover the costs. Then you've got to shuffle it around. At this point, you're providing a resource rich target for any PvPer. The exchange rate on destruction of a ship carrying PLEX is horrible, but it's still money in their pocket. They get paid, by CCP for killing you, get paid more by CCP for giving the opportunity and getting away with it.
This stuff builds into the core gameplay structure of EVE. There is no equivalent in ESO, and because of its design, there's no real way to implement a system like that.
Now, I can see already, you're going, "buh-buh-PLEX!"
Remember this in these simple terms:
CCP needs live bodies playing EVE; without them, there is no game. None.
ZOS needs money to keep the lights on. Without that, there is no game. None.
The design decisions in both games reflect those requirements. (And, yes, CCP needs money too. But their individual players are far more valuable to them as an asset (note, an asset, not an individual) than an individual player in ESO is.1 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭They should implement a crown/gold exchange, where players can exchange gold for crowns, and vice versa, with other players at some market-based exchange rate. No new gold would be created through this process (and in fact it could be made to operate as a minor gold sink as well if a small percentage of gold is taken as a cut). As new crowns only enter the system through the crown store any money spent would go directly to ZOS. But most importantly, it would take away a significant portion of the gold-sellers' market and therefore profits as well, hopefully dealing a death blow to their "business model".
As I mentioned on the previous page, systems like this justify P2W power creep. After all, you can legitimately say that, "no, really, you can buy everything in the store with enough grinding, so we're only selling convenience," cue a new equipment rarity or CR200 upgrade tokens that are Crown store exclusive.
Now, in fairness, that's not an automatic occurrence. It's possible that ZOS really is the unicorn of gaming who could resist that pull. I mean, look at Bethesda's Creation Club... oh, wait. Yeah, let's not invite this particular system in.2 -
redspecter23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If this were ever to happen, the conversion rate would be so horrible that only the fattest of whales would even bother. Not that it's any disincentive for ZOS to do it with that logic. Probably 5500 crowns for 60,000 gold. And the whales would spend hundreds on it anyway while the rest of us laugh at them0 -
Storymaster✭✭✭✭✭It is done already, to a certain degree.
I have used mimic stones to make Grim Harlequin and Frost caster items, de-conned the equipment to get the style stone, sell the style zone for gold via trading house. Crown conversion to gold that is a legit in ESO, although not the best way to do it
I would also say that adding in an in game conversion process from Gold to Crowns and vice versa is to the benefit of players but not necessarily the benefit of ZoS, that is why you haven't seen it introduced in game.
@KingMagaw
One, your mimic stone conversion method is genius.
Two, a system like PLEX is win-win for ZOS and players because someone in the transaction is giving money to ZOS. That's how PLEX works in eve. I wouldn't necessarily bring crowns into it, but something else that requires a direct purchase from someone to be sold in-game for gold. Everyone wins except the gold sellers.0 -
RABIDxWOLVERINE✭✭✭✭Congratulations, you have the dumbest idea Ive heard all week!
Grand prize is..... a brand new NOTHING!!!Rhaegar Gregorson, The Ebonheart Centurion - Imperial Dragonknight
RABIDxWOLVERINE - Xbox One, NA, Ebonheart Pact
Loreseekers
BLOOD FOR THE PACT!0 -
KingMagaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭Storymaster wrote: »It is done already, to a certain degree.
I have used mimic stones to make Grim Harlequin and Frost caster items, de-conned the equipment to get the style stone, sell the style zone for gold via trading house. Crown conversion to gold that is a legit in ESO, although not the best way to do it
I would also say that adding in an in game conversion process from Gold to Crowns and vice versa is to the benefit of players but not necessarily the benefit of ZoS, that is why you haven't seen it introduced in game.
@KingMagaw
One, your mimic stone conversion method is genius.
Two, a system like PLEX is win-win for ZOS and players because someone in the transaction is giving money to ZOS. That's how PLEX works in eve. I wouldn't necessarily bring crowns into it, but something else that requires a direct purchase from someone to be sold in-game for gold. Everyone wins except the gold sellers.
It has been around, for a long time and i won't take credit for thinking of it, was mentioned to me when Grim was first released. I used to get a 100% decon rate, but i hear it has been reduced to averagely ~80% conversion with the style stones selling for around 10k.
I do agree a more direct crown/gold conversion in game is a positive thing for players. Not for ZoS though because their goal is profit from real money and not a better gaming experience for players.0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Storymaster wrote: »It is done already, to a certain degree.
I have used mimic stones to make Grim Harlequin and Frost caster items, de-conned the equipment to get the style stone, sell the style zone for gold via trading house. Crown conversion to gold that is a legit in ESO, although not the best way to do it
I would also say that adding in an in game conversion process from Gold to Crowns and vice versa is to the benefit of players but not necessarily the benefit of ZoS, that is why you haven't seen it introduced in game.
@KingMagaw
One, your mimic stone conversion method is genius.
Two, a system like PLEX is win-win for ZOS and players because someone in the transaction is giving money to ZOS. That's how PLEX works in eve. I wouldn't necessarily bring crowns into it, but something else that requires a direct purchase from someone to be sold in-game for gold. Everyone wins except the gold sellers.
It has been around, for a long time and i won't take credit for thinking of it, was mentioned to me when Grim was first released. I used to get a 100% decon rate, but i hear it has been reduced to averagely ~80% conversion with the style stones selling for around 10k.
I do agree a more direct crown/gold conversion in game is a positive thing for players. Not for ZoS though because their goal is profit from real money and not a better gaming experience for players.
It's also a pretty horrible conversion scheme, from what I've seen. Supply for Grindstones and shards is virtually non-existent but the demand is even lower. The only people who can use those stones are ones who already spent money on the motif, and are unwilling to shell out more cash for the mimic stones.
Combine this with the part where the Grim Harlequin motif is (per unit) the cheapest way to buy stones, and you've got a big gamble trying to move them.
Now, they do move, but again, not many people want, or can use, those things to begin with.1 -
Motherball✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »You're missing the napkin math on the previous page that, effectively, limits how much gold ZOS can offer per crown to around 350. At that point, the Goldsellers are already offering far better rates than ZOS could.
They can adjust crown costs as well. What are we really afraid of players having so much gold for? So they can buy all the bag and bank slots, every mansion and bis gear piece and whatever decoration or costume they want. And then what? They win the game? No more reason to play?
If players never bought gold, there would be no market for it. An alternative is to make gold worthless by allowing everyone vast amounts of it. If players are going to buy it anyway, the development company should profit, imo.Edited by Motherball on October 12, 2017 11:33PM0 -
Nyladreas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭"There's not enough gold sink in the game as it is..."
._.
*looks at milions and milions of gold spent on his housing*
I agree. Lmao.0 -
Cpt_Teemo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭"There's not enough gold sink in the game as it is..."
._.
*looks at milions and milions of gold spent on his housing*
I agree. Lmao.
I kind of agree we need another way to gold swap in game, that's what WoW tokens did made rich players hand gold to new players or ones that don't have the time to farm.
ESO should add monthly tokens in game that you can buy for 20$ and sell in game for a fixed price0
