Asylum DW Weapons aren't even worth slotting. These need some serious changes.

Izaki

Asylum Sanctorium Hard Mode is without a doubt the hardest content to be introduced into the game. What do we get for completing it?

The Daggers/Axes: I'm just going quote @Asmael since he's done a great analysis of these weapons in this thread: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/372394/full-pve-dd-stamina-pts-testing-wip#latest

The Asylum weapons are the new unique weapons coming with Clockwork City. We are using here the same weapon traits and enchants as before, so we are essentially trading a full monster set for the Asylum daggers effect, which adds 10s to the duration of your ACTIVE Rending slashes, Deadly Cloak and Lacerate abilities, so you have to cast Steel Tornado AFTER casting the empowerable DoTs.

The first idea that comes to mind when seeing the effect is that you want to empower as many DoTs as possible, which would indeed technically be the most optimized rotation. However, in practice, you will refresh 2 DoTs on your front bar and then... You will be stuck with either refreshing the already empowered DoTs, or spamming Steel Tornado against a single target, both of which are extremely bad in terms of damage. To counteract this issue, I moved a DoT from the front bar to the backbar, and added a stronger single target spammable on the front bar (flexible) so that you always have something to do when your DoTs are already up.

Since it still comes with the huge drawback of having 4 DoTs on the backbar and all 5 abilities for single target damage on the front bar, you end up having to replace Molten armaments if you ever want to use a flexible ability, such as Purge, Vigor or else. As I really dislike dropping Vigor in the more recent trials, I simply decided to not bother empowering Deadly Cloak and Rending Slashes if I wasn't empowering Lacerate as well, saving me a bar slot and a lot of trouble when it comes to the rotation. This does mean that the only use of Asylum daggers then becomes to empower your ultimate and nothing else, which has significant drawbacks.

Following the idea of the previous setup, you suddenly have to face all the issues that come with Lacerate and its morphs (Rend & Thrive on Chaos). Thrive on Chaos is an extremely niche ability that will underperform in a lot of boss fights if you cannot guarantee a hit on multiple targets, in big part due to the ability being a straight line with a pretty mediocre range. When it comes to trash fights, the same issue occurs, but also, if you were to use it, the Asylum daggers wouldn't really do anything, because adds don't stay alive for 18 seconds when using an ultimate, ideally they die much faster than this, in which case using non-Asylum daggers would do a better a job it - or just another ultimate entirely (Standard of Might, Dawnbreaker for straight burst...). This leaves Rend, which then becomes a 28 seconds DoT. While it doesn't require to hit multiple targets, you definitely do not want to use it to kill adds, as just about any AoE ultimate will do a better job at it.

To keep going on the issue that comes with an empowered Rend: you kinda face the same issue you usually have with Standard, except even worse. Standard of Might is a strong ultimate of you can guarantee to keep damage reliably your enemy for its full duration, since you benefit from an extra 15% damage as long as you stand in it, which means that mechanics requiring you to move (like a color change on the Twins in Maw or the Storm Atronach in AA) make its optimal use harder. 17s can be troublesome to land in some fights, so a 28s DoT is far worse in this regard. It is only good if you are certain to both be buffed and have your opponent debuffed (Concussion + offbalance) for the next 28s after you cast Rend. Boss immunities and mechanics can be a lot of trouble in this regard, when some ultimates, slightly worse in static fights, become very efficient when you need to be on the move constantly (Conduit duty on HoF 2nd boss, steam dodging and whatnot) such as Ballista or Shooting Star - due to their high burst and shorter duration.

So, with Lacerate being an unoptimized tool for AoE, here comes the last issue: if you want the best setup possible through a trial or dungeon, you will need to constantly swap both weapons and abilities, and while it might be fine on PC with some addons, this simply makes Asylum daggers an absolute no-go for anyone not using one such addon - on top of not (currently) providing a significant enough damage increase for all the constraints that come with it.

I'm quoting this for visibility in hopes that ZOS will take the time to make changes to these weapons so that they actually become competitive with other options. Currently, they are just trash that you will sell to a vendor, decon for mats or research. Now there are other sources that confirm the same findings, @Gilliamtherogue 's video for one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAkt_YTJfy8

My personal testing of these weapon yielded the same issues and the same conclusions. On a Stamina Nightblade, with a very commonly used gear and skill setup, I was able to reach a 49k DPS burst on the 3 million target dummy ( https://imgur.com/ki67oeI ). When replacing either the monster set or 2 items of one of my 5 piece sets, in both situations, I could not reach even close to the same numbers, my results were around 42k at best with roughly the same crit chance luck, (I will add a screenshot soon). And I had to completely change my bars in order to accomodate Steel Tornado, which in itself was a massive DPS loss. On the 6 million dummy, the results were too terrible to warrant taking a screenshot (I really tried).

Obviously, Asmael's write-up concerns primarily Stamina DKs, but the "bar space problem" is a thing for all other stamina classes. Something much more logical would be for these weapons to be attached to Deadly Cloak which is basically a must have ability on everyone's bars in PvE. Attaching an effect which doubles the duration of single target abilities with cleave damage components to an AoE spammable is a very unorthodox approach and it requires far too much sacrifice to work as intended So my several suggestions for these weapons would be as follows:

1) Adds 10 seconds to the Deadly Cloak ability. When applying Deadly Cloak, add 10 seconds to your active Rending Slashes and Lacerate abilities. (Basically the same as now, except tied to Deadly Cloak rather than Steel Tornado. It will still require a more special rotation and it will still probably be very lackluster compared to other options, but its better than what we currently have).
2) When applying Deadly Cloak, add X seconds to all your already active damage over time effects. (In this case X must be much shorter than 10 seconds, more like 3 seconds. This can also function with Steel Tornado, but we would be back to the situation of having to fit it onto our bars).
3) While Deadly Cloak is active, all your damage over time effects gain X weapon damage. (Basically inverting the current requirement, instead of having to activate the trigger ability last, you now would have to do it before placing your DoTs. Some may say that this is potentially too strong, however, remember that you are sacrificing a 5 piece set like Hunding's Rage for these daggers, so the values must be fairly elevated)
4) When using Steel Tornado add X seconds to all your already applied AoE damage over time effects. This means: Deadly Cloak, Endless Hail, Caltrops, Hurricane, Noxious Breath, etc. (A more niche use for the daggers since it will only be beneficial in AoE situations and it is still tied to Steel Tornado which means that its use in Single Target will be difficult).

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Wrobel

Thanks for reading and I really hope that something can be done to those daggers to make them a valid option.

DeadlyRecluse

It's a pretty terrible design. It's too bad, because Steel Tornado/Whirlwind is such a cool ability that during some periods of this game was pretty iconic--but instead of adding anything to the ability itself, they "alter" a different set of abilities via the first one?

I feel the same way about the resto design--make the ability-altering weapons actually alter the ability, not alter different abilities triggered by the first.

DDuke

Agreed, these weapons definitely need buffing.


I'm not sure how insane it would be, but perhaps it could be worth doing this:

Chaotic Whirlwind (Perfected)
(2 Items) When you deal damage with Whirlwind, you add 10 seconds to your active Twin Slashes, Lacerate, and Blade Cloak over time effects. This effect can occur once per cast of those abilities.


Also, by having DW Ultimate count as a bleed (and thus ignore resistances) rather than just a physical dmg DoT these weapons could become much more viable in PvP atleast (in PvE you're already ignoring most, if not all resistance).

That'd also make Blooddrinker a better set and an interesting consideration for PvE/PvP.

Avran_Sylt

Chaotic Whirlwind:
Non-perfected:
Whirlwind now applies a bleed over 10 seconds

Perfected:
Whirlwind now applies a bleed over 10 seconds + what it does now.


ALSO
Stop just testing on sole ST ***. Is this superb in AoE scenarios? Would this be better for trash pulls and multiple bosses?

Gilliamtherogue

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Chaotic Whirlwind:
Non-perfected:
Whirlwind now applies a bleed over 10 seconds

Perfected:
Whirlwind now applies a bleed over 10 seconds + what it does now.


ALSO
Stop just testing on sole ST ***. Is this superb in AoE scenarios? Would this be better for trash pulls and multiple bosses?

Good luck hitting more than 6 mobs (if that) with Rend. Sure, you can stack target dummies inside one another and see the DPS, but Lacerate and morphs' biggest flaw is that the hit box is pathetically small. Plus, in an AoE situation, if you go to apply Rending slashes to each target instead of mashing Steel Tornado, you're just going to lose DPS. No, even in AoE these weapons are abysmal in terms of performance.

Toc de Malsvi

The same is true of the Asylum bow, it is entirely not worth slotting. Yet ZOS has done nothing to adjust. It's a flat loss of dps over any other weapon setup.

Koolio

This is disappointing. However I still want to try them in small scale pvp. Got a pretty good build in mind.

Dymence

DDuke wrote: »

Agreed, these weapons definitely need buffing.


I'm not sure how insane it would be, but perhaps it could be worth doing this:

Chaotic Whirlwind (Perfected)
(2 Items) When you deal damage with Whirlwind, you add 10 seconds to your active Twin Slashes, Lacerate, and Blade Cloak over time effects. This effect can occur once per cast of those abilities.


Also, by having DW Ultimate count as a bleed (and thus ignore resistances) rather than just a physical dmg DoT these weapons could become much more viable in PvP atleast (in PvE you're already ignoring most, if not all resistance).

That'd also make Blooddrinker a better set and an interesting consideration for PvE/PvP.

This would be stupidly broken. 100% uptime on Rend?

GeorgeBlack

They are crap but since ZOS decided that DW= daggers/axes, I don't care.

Dymence

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

They are crap but since ZOS decided that DW= daggers/axes, I don't care.

This is no longer the case since a while now. You can get swords with the DW enchant.

Unless you were talking about the actual viability of other weapons compared to a BiS setup, then nevermind.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Dymence wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

They are crap but since ZOS decided that DW= daggers/axes, I don't care.

This is no longer the case since a while now. You can get swords with the DW enchant.

Unless you were talking about the actual viability of other weapons compared to a BiS setup, then nevermind.

For clarification, asylum set weapons can drop in any form, be they the tanking ones or the do on

In this patch, they are actually adding master versions of the other one handed weapons and vMA ones to, ie a cruel flurry mace or sword.

Vaoh

So what I've come to understand from Perfect Asylum DW is that they are Stam Sorc weapons.

Stam Sorcs are the AoE Stamina DPS kings but these weapons allow their AoE DPS to be become even larger and also increases their single target DPS quite a bit as well. I have managed to come up with a new Stam Sorc rotation for these weapons and it'll probably be BiS on Stam Sorc if things work out like I think they will.

However, I have done exactly zero testing. Also we need to take into account that the more simple a rotation is the better, and this rotation requires a much more practice than the typical Stam DPS rotation to make fluent. On top of this it would be really dumb for these weapons to be viable on only a single class and build.

@Izaki would you mind testing the rotation for me? Use the typical rotation for Stam Sorc vs the one I created to test DPS. Lmk if you'd be okay with testing this. If so I'll PM you the rotation.

The only testing I could do was on Live (PS4 NA) was mimicking how I'd use the rotation with actual Asylum Weapons and I can perform it perfectly over the course of a 6mil target skill with like 20K DPS (from weak gear, not a bad rotation lol). Without using Asulym weapons I am parsing close to the same DPS I would normally get on Stam Sorc so with this rotation it would have to be higher using Asylum weapons.

Vaoh

Also I'd like to say that even if what I have come up with somehow does become BiS for Stam Sorc, the actual effect of Perfect Asylum DW needs serious tuning. They should absolutely be BiS or at least an alternative to the current BiS with only the slightest DPS boost, and work for most Stam DPS at the same time. By no means should they lower your DPS as well as complicate your rotation (which simply makes them useless).

Maulkin

Dymence wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Agreed, these weapons definitely need buffing.


I'm not sure how insane it would be, but perhaps it could be worth doing this:

Chaotic Whirlwind (Perfected)
(2 Items) When you deal damage with Whirlwind, you add 10 seconds to your active Twin Slashes, Lacerate, and Blade Cloak over time effects. This effect can occur once per cast of those abilities.


Also, by having DW Ultimate count as a bleed (and thus ignore resistances) rather than just a physical dmg DoT these weapons could become much more viable in PvP atleast (in PvE you're already ignoring most, if not all resistance).

That'd also make Blooddrinker a better set and an interesting consideration for PvE/PvP.

This would be stupidly broken. 100% uptime on Rend?

Yep. I would argue that ultimate buffing should not even be a thing, they are by nature very strong abilities. And that goes for any weapon. Imagine if Impulse, similarly, allowed 100% up-time on Destro ult how broken that would be for PVP and PvE.

But yeah they need to do something about the DW, Bow and Resto. They are pretty terrible and not worth considering atm. I'm not sure why they went with this bizarre design where using one ability buffs the others. Just buff the core ability and be done. Add bleeds to Steel Tornado, increase the damage of Arrow Spray or add a strong poison DoT... that sort of stuff.

Ladislao

I'm not trying to protect this weapon. But where are opinions on pvp? It's totally wrong to consider any weapon exclusively in one direction. I didn't test it but it looks like good option in some builds against non-templars.

And again. Why do you think it must be BiS for anything? I thought master weapon just should be an interesting option to modify the skill (of course I don't think that in the current version asylum DW is really interesting).
According to your logic any master weapon should be BiS for DPS rotations (enjoy your BiS master 2H ).

Zer0oo

Most of the Asylum Weapons are really not good for pve.(atleast i can not see how to fit them in a normal pve rotation)
The only weapon i can see used it the destro staff, but even the staff may not be bis if you already have really high uptime on concussion. And maybe the 2h but dw builds are so much better than 2h.

Azurya

100% same opinion as op!

Izaki

Ladislao wrote: »

I'm not trying to protect this weapon. But where are opinions on pvp? It's totally wrong to consider any weapon exclusively in one direction. I didn't test it but it looks like good option in some builds against non-templars.

And again. Why do you think it must be BiS for anything? I thought master weapon just should be an interesting option to modify the skill (of course I don't think that in the current version asylum DW is really interesting).
According to your logic any master weapon should be BiS for DPS rotations (enjoy your BiS master 2H ).

I never said they should be BiS in the OP, I said they need to be competitive. And frankly... Since they drop in the hardest content in the game, they might as well be BiS.

Izaki

Vaoh wrote: »

So what I've come to understand from Perfect Asylum DW is that they are Stam Sorc weapons.

Stam Sorcs are the AoE Stamina DPS kings but these weapons allow their AoE DPS to be become even larger and also increases their single target DPS quite a bit as well. I have managed to come up with a new Stam Sorc rotation for these weapons and it'll probably be BiS on Stam Sorc if things work out like I think they will.

However, I have done exactly zero testing. Also we need to take into account that the more simple a rotation is the better, and this rotation requires a much more practice than the typical Stam DPS rotation to make fluent. On top of this it would be really dumb for these weapons to be viable on only a single class and build.

@Izaki would you mind testing the rotation for me? Use the typical rotation for Stam Sorc vs the one I created to test DPS. Lmk if you'd be okay with testing this. If so I'll PM you the rotation.

The only testing I could do was on Live (PS4 NA) was mimicking how I'd use the rotation with actual Asylum Weapons and I can perform it perfectly over the course of a 6mil target skill with like 20K DPS (from weak gear, not a bad rotation lol). Without using Asulym weapons I am parsing close to the same DPS I would normally get on Stam Sorc so with this rotation it would have to be higher using Asylum weapons.

Sure fire away, I'll send you the parses I have already seen people do some Stam Sorc things with these weapons and the results were really not inspiring, since you lack the bar space to put a spammblade on your bar. Once you've empowered your DoTs, your only options are: use Steel Tornado as a spammable (terrible in single target DPS) reapply your DoTs (kinda stupid since you're using Asylum weapons to only apply them every 2 rotations.

Problem is, that this weapon is just totally illogical. It requires you to use an AoE spammable in order to empower the length of some single target DoTs. That inefficient in both AoE and Single Target.

Shadzilla

Koolio wrote: »

This is disappointing. However I still want to try them in small scale pvp. Got a pretty good build in mind.

Hope you don't play against people who purge dots, which is almost everyone except legit noobs.

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

The same is true of the Asylum bow, it is entirely not worth slotting. Yet ZOS has done nothing to adjust. It's a flat loss of dps over any other weapon setup.

We need to keep complaining, hopefully they do something about it.

Maulkin wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Agreed, these weapons definitely need buffing.


I'm not sure how insane it would be, but perhaps it could be worth doing this:

Chaotic Whirlwind (Perfected)
(2 Items) When you deal damage with Whirlwind, you add 10 seconds to your active Twin Slashes, Lacerate, and Blade Cloak over time effects. This effect can occur once per cast of those abilities.


Also, by having DW Ultimate count as a bleed (and thus ignore resistances) rather than just a physical dmg DoT these weapons could become much more viable in PvP atleast (in PvE you're already ignoring most, if not all resistance).

That'd also make Blooddrinker a better set and an interesting consideration for PvE/PvP.

This would be stupidly broken. 100% uptime on Rend?

Yep. I would argue that ultimate buffing should not even be a thing, they are by nature very strong abilities. And that goes for any weapon. Imagine if Impulse, similarly, allowed 100% up-time on Destro ult how broken that would be for PVP and PvE.

But yeah they need to do something about the DW, Bow and Resto. They are pretty terrible and not worth considering atm. I'm not sure why they went with this bizarre design where using one ability buffs the others. Just buff the core ability and be done. Add bleeds to Steel Tornado, increase the damage of Arrow Spray or add a strong poison DoT... that sort of stuff.

I agree, my main suggestion was to just give nado a big damage boost and done...

Shadzilla

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/372839/asylum-dual-wield-weapons-suck-help-zos-make-them-better#latest

My main wish is that they just give steel tornado a big damage boost while having these weapons equipped, at least making them BIS for AOE...

Shadzilla

Izaki wrote: »

Ladislao wrote: »

I'm not trying to protect this weapon. But where are opinions on pvp? It's totally wrong to consider any weapon exclusively in one direction. I didn't test it but it looks like good option in some builds against non-templars.

And again. Why do you think it must be BiS for anything? I thought master weapon just should be an interesting option to modify the skill (of course I don't think that in the current version asylum DW is really interesting).
According to your logic any master weapon should be BiS for DPS rotations (enjoy your BiS master 2H ).

I never said they should be BiS in the OP, I said they need to be competitive. And frankly... Since they drop in the hardest content in the game, they might as well be BiS.

I say they should be BIS, due to the fact that they drop in the hardest content... Beware though, many people that do not run end game content much rather have crafted sets on the same level as end game dropped gear...

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/373966/bis-setups-for-pve-and-pvp-crafted-sets#latest

Shadzilla

bump

WrathOfInnos

I think they should be BIS for something, but they don't necessarily need to be BIS for end game single target DPS.

Imagine if they simply buffed Whirlwind to the point that those who refuse to do rotations could compete in AoE. A one button wonder with these weapons farmed from normal Asylum could do nearly as much AoE damage as someone using Endless Hail, Blade Cloak, and Caltrops. This would certainly "raise the floor", and make grouping with randoms from the Dungeon Finder more fun. This may be as simple as increasing whirlwind damage with these weapons equipped, or having whirlwind provide empower or possibly a 2-3s major berserk buff.

Another interesting option would be to give these weapons a defensive bonus. Maybe a decent sized damage shield on use of whirlwind. If it is enough to keep the squishiest stamina DPS alive in vet trials it could be worthy of a skill bar slot. Currently stamina DPS only have access to a good shield if they are using a 2 Handed weapon, and bone shield is weak for stamina DPS since it scales on health. The other defensive option would be a few seconds of major protection to the user, or possibly even a few seconds of major maim to those hit by steel tornado (this would earn it a place in every vet trial trash pull, without making it OP for group DPS or useful against bosses).

If the goal is to make whirlwind a part of single target DPS rotations, then I would agree with @Avran_Sylt that a 10s DoT would be a nice way to handle it. This would be similar to the Maelstrom 2 Hander. The magnitude of the DoT would have to be slightly better than Blood Craze or Rending Slashes to make this worth using, as that would be the most likely skill for it to replace.

If it absolutely must be tied to using other skills, then I would recommend buffing something other than their duration. Only the absolute best players will be able to adapt to a rotation that is built around the timing of 25s blade cloak, 19s rending slashes, and 26s rend, while most players can handle 10-12s repeatable rotations. The problem with simply buffing the damage of these skills after using whirlwind is that it is stale and has been done before. This is exactly what the Maelstrom dual wield does, and the Master daggers also buff Rending Slashes. We do not need 3 options for weapon sets that buff Rending Slashes DoT. If Whirlwind must buff another skill, maybe Blade Cloak is the best option, since it is at least AoE. The Blade Cloak buff from Whirlwind would have to be massive to justify the use of a 2 piece set and the skill whirlwind though, like making Blade Cloak tick every second instead of every 3s (would this be OP? It would add about 3k DPS at the expense of a bar slot for whirlwind and the timing of using 2 skills instead of just blade cloak). Maybe the imperfect version could make blade cloak tick every 1.5-2s.

I'm sure there are numerous other ways to make this weapon set useful, these are just a few of my ideas.

Izaki

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I think they should be BIS for something, but they don't necessarily need to be BIS for end game single target DPS.

Imagine if they simply buffed Whirlwind to the point that those who refuse to do rotations could compete in AoE. A one button wonder with these weapons farmed from normal Asylum could do nearly as much AoE damage as someone using Endless Hail, Blade Cloak, and Caltrops. This would certainly "raise the floor", and make grouping with randoms from the Dungeon Finder more fun. This may be as simple as increasing whirlwind damage with these weapons equipped, or having whirlwind provide empower or possibly a 2-3s major berserk buff.

Another interesting option would be to give these weapons a defensive bonus. Maybe a decent sized damage shield on use of whirlwind. If it is enough to keep the squishiest stamina DPS alive in vet trials it could be worthy of a skill bar slot. Currently stamina DPS only have access to a good shield if they are using a 2 Handed weapon, and bone shield is weak for stamina DPS since it scales on health. The other defensive option would be a few seconds of major protection to the user, or possibly even a few seconds of major maim to those hit by steel tornado (this would earn it a place in every vet trial trash pull, without making it OP for group DPS or useful against bosses).

If the goal is to make whirlwind a part of single target DPS rotations, then I would agree with @Avran_Sylt that a 10s DoT would be a nice way to handle it. This would be similar to the Maelstrom 2 Hander. The magnitude of the DoT would have to be slightly better than Blood Craze or Rending Slashes to make this worth using, as that would be the most likely skill for it to replace.

If it absolutely must be tied to using other skills, then I would recommend buffing something other than their duration. Only the absolute best players will be able to adapt to a rotation that is built around the timing of 25s blade cloak, 19s rending slashes, and 26s rend, while most players can handle 10-12s repeatable rotations. The problem with simply buffing the damage of these skills after using whirlwind is that it is stale and has been done before. This is exactly what the Maelstrom dual wield does, and the Master daggers also buff Rending Slashes. We do not need 3 options for weapon sets that buff Rending Slashes DoT. If Whirlwind must buff another skill, maybe Blade Cloak is the best option, since it is at least AoE. The Blade Cloak buff from Whirlwind would have to be massive to justify the use of a 2 piece set and the skill whirlwind though, like making Blade Cloak tick every second instead of every 3s (would this be OP? It would add about 3k DPS at the expense of a bar slot for whirlwind and the timing of using 2 skills instead of just blade cloak). Maybe the imperfect version could make blade cloak tick every 1.5-2s.

I'm sure there are numerous other ways to make this weapon set useful, these are just a few of my ideas.

No one needs a stamina shield, we've got Deadly Cloak :P And I can guarantee you that no one will ever slot Asylum DW if it gave a defensive bonus...

WrathOfInnos

@Izaki I'm guessing you don't PUG healers often . I'm just saying that if they don't want these to be BIS for META stamina DPS endgame, at least give them something unique that someone might use, and stamina definitely falls behind magicka DPS for survival. Doesn't necessarily have to be a shield, but a small heal or defensive buff would make me more likely to use these than the current effect.

On a related note, the Titanic Cleave change in today's patch notes sounds cool. Bonus damage scales on how many targets are hit, up to 9000 at 6 targets. Something like this would be great to see on Whirlwind. A built-in cost decrease wouldn't be bad either, like on the Master destruction staff, since WW is an expensive skill to spam.

Toc de Malsvi

Yall still got a better buff than bow. Bow's are so overperforming that they increased the DOT time on Acid Spray by 1 whole second. I know you are going to fear those bow DPS competing for your spots, also bow pvp Acid Spray is going to destroy everyone right?

Izaki

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

@Izaki I'm guessing you don't PUG healers often . I'm just saying that if they don't want these to be BIS for META stamina DPS endgame, at least give them something unique that someone might use, and stamina definitely falls behind magicka DPS for survival. Doesn't necessarily have to be a shield, but a small heal or defensive buff would make me more likely to use these than the current effect.

On a related note, the Titanic Cleave change in today's patch notes sounds cool. Bonus damage scales on how many targets are hit, up to 9000 at 6 targets. Something like this would be great to see on Whirlwind. A built-in cost decrease wouldn't be bad either, like on the Master destruction staff, since WW is an expensive skill to spam.

They drop from the hardest (by far) content in the game. They are supposed to be a BiS weapon, not a kinda cool weapon that can fit a niche purpose. We should be fightning over the drops of these daggers, not just selling them to a vendor.
And no, currently I feel way more safer on a stamina character than on a magicka one. 25% damage mitigation that doesn't cost you any DPS is much better than a shield. Pair that with an armor buff and unless you stand in red, you're tankier than a magicka build. At least, this is the impression that I'm getting.

They just added 2 seconds to the item set... This is just stupid. 2 extra seconds on a few DoTs isn't going to make up for the 2k DPS loss that we suffer when using these weapons. And like I mentioned before, using an AoE spammable skill to empower single target DoTs isn't good design at all. The vMA Bow and the Master's Bow are perfect examples of what unique weapons should be like. Either give a massive buff to one ability or give a buff to all your abilities upon using the modified ability. And I still think that attaching a special effect after using Steel Tornado is stupid. Deadly Cloak would have been much easier to design in a logical way. Or even Hidden Blade for *** sake lol.

Shadzilla

Izaki wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

@Izaki I'm guessing you don't PUG healers often . I'm just saying that if they don't want these to be BIS for META stamina DPS endgame, at least give them something unique that someone might use, and stamina definitely falls behind magicka DPS for survival. Doesn't necessarily have to be a shield, but a small heal or defensive buff would make me more likely to use these than the current effect.

On a related note, the Titanic Cleave change in today's patch notes sounds cool. Bonus damage scales on how many targets are hit, up to 9000 at 6 targets. Something like this would be great to see on Whirlwind. A built-in cost decrease wouldn't be bad either, like on the Master destruction staff, since WW is an expensive skill to spam.

They drop from the hardest (by far) content in the game. They are supposed to be a BiS weapon, not a kinda cool weapon that can fit a niche purpose. We should be fightning over the drops of these daggers, not just selling them to a vendor.
And no, currently I feel way more safer on a stamina character than on a magicka one. 25% damage mitigation that doesn't cost you any DPS is much better than a shield. Pair that with an armor buff and unless you stand in red, you're tankier than a magicka build. At least, this is the impression that I'm getting.

They just added 2 seconds to the item set... This is just stupid. 2 extra seconds on a few DoTs isn't going to make up for the 2k DPS loss that we suffer when using these weapons. And like I mentioned before, using an AoE spammable skill to empower single target DoTs isn't good design at all. The vMA Bow and the Master's Bow are perfect examples of what unique weapons should be like. Either give a massive buff to one ability or give a buff to all your abilities upon using the modified ability. And I still think that attaching a special effect after using Steel Tornado is stupid. Deadly Cloak would have been much easier to design in a logical way. Or even Hidden Blade for *** sake lol.

@Izaki This is just brutal, I cannot believe I just read these new PTS notes. Another 2 seconds is just trash, will still be a big dps loss with a much more difficult rotation. Steel tornado should not be included in a single target rotation, and that is what they are trying to do... This is such a let down, there is still 2 more weeks before live. We need to try and get them to just change them to buffing just the damage steel tornado does by like 100% or something, therefore giving them good capability in AOE.

WrathOfInnos

Yeah, the additional 2s duration will do nothing to make these worth slotting. I have to agree with @Izaki that Master and Maelstrom bow are good examples of unique sets that are built around a single ability, while Asylum dual wield is not. It is very situational, and lackluster even in the perfect situation.

Vaoh

2sec duration buff.... pathetic change.

Asylum DW is still useless.