BIS SETUPS FOR PVE AND PVP - CRAFTED SETS

Shadzilla

This thread is about the power of crafted sets. From the other MMO`s I have played, the top tier gear was always acquired by doing the hardest content. In this game, most builds still incorporate at least one 5 piece crafted set. Is this right? I mean honestly, what if crafted sets were actually a noticeable level below the gear you received in end game pve content? What if there were a bunch of new gear sets specifically tailored towards pvp that required certain goals or achievements (ex. win 25 bgs or capture 50 keeps) or that cost a massive amounts of ap and tel var? I am not going to go through every pve/pvp role or build and talk about the sets being used, but lets be honest here... Craftable sets are currently involved in a very large amount of BIS builds, I personally think this is weird and should be looked into/fixed. In my opinion, I would like to see endgame pve content start dropping gear specifically tailored to pve content that outperforms crafted sets, not vice versa. I would also like to see a pvp vendor tailored specifically towards pvp content. That vendor having very expensive or hard to get gear which clearly outperforms crafted sets. Crafted gear should be used as a stepping stone for doing end game pvp or pve content. Once in said content, you should be upgrading to higher tier gear sets for both pve and pvp. I am not saying that crafted gear should be horrible and useless, but it should be a bit lower of caliber compared to stuff achieved at the end game level. I welcome all opinions.

Many people believe that if there were better gear sets to look forward to, they would do more of the pve/pvp content... Imagine if there were certain nice higher tiered sets that only dropped from vet trials? Many more people would be playing, or at least trying to clear bosses in them. Imagine after 100 bg wins there was a vendor that had some nice higher tiered pvp gear to be able to buy with ap? There would probably be some more action in bgs... Imagine if cyro had a few vendors that had some nice higher tiered pvp gear that required alliance ranks 20, 35, and 50? Being grand overlord would be much more of a goal then the current "bragging rights" that come with it... Is this logical? Getting better stuffz for playing the game more and completing harder stuffz??? Any rational person knows that is completely logical. The simple fact is the majority of the player base are not into end game content, and really do not want to see people with a higher alliance rank have better gear options than they do. So will the majority of the player base get jealous if a grand overlord has access to a few pvp sets that they don't? Most likely. Is that logical? Absolutely not.

Vimora

And that would probably make me quit the game immediately. I know it's weird but looks are important to me. Currently, I have some control over the looks of my toons via crafted gear. If crafted gear is excluded from bis, that goes away and so did I.

Aliyavana

Vimora wrote: »

And that would probably make me quit the game immediately. I know it's weird but looks are important to me. Currently, I have some control over the looks of my toons via crafted gear. If crafted gear is excluded from bis, that goes away and so did I.

Transmog.

The game is to casual for crafted sets to be significant. You can ask your friend to craft u almost his gear.

inthecoconut

Personally I find it refreshing to have crafted items relevant. And they should be, considering the lengthy time investment to research them. I haven't played long enough to know if you can make a profit off of crafting in ESO, but that would also be okay in my book if you did. The economy and value placed on crafted sets in other MMOs barely have you break even when you go to sell them.

At the same time, I think I can recognize your concern. Why bother with running dungeons if you can craft something comparable? Unfortunately I don't have experience with end-game content so I can't really remark. I only just got to lvl 50, and as a newbie/lowbie I am having a hard time finding builds and guides that don't use gear acquired from some veteran dungeon or trial or something (I don't know much about this content yet and only know about normal dungeons). So I am left wondering how many people actually use stricly crafted gear when I can't find many (current) guides/builds that do this.

Ultimately, I'd be fine with your suggestion on having gear be slightly less powerful than those you acquire from end-game PvE/PvP content but if and only if:

• Transmog is implemented to allow players the ability to change the appearance of gear and
• Research time is lowered to compensate for crafted sets no longer being as relevant

Sneaky-Snurr

I'm totally happy with how the way things are now.
Sure, it could use some improvements but crafted sets have a place in endgame and I very much appreciate that. To add to that, appearance is just as important to me and crafted sets offer that niche, at least for now considering the upcoming updates to armour/weapon trans.
We'll soon find out what it's going to be like.

raj72616a

we need to grind vet dungeon for monster helm, grind daily pledges for shoulder, grind trial for divine TFS, and do that on vet to grind full set gold jewelry, and grind vMA for the bow.

is that not enough grinding to let us just have a relevant crafted set?

D0PAMINE

Interesting.

getemshauna

And again... Another pointless thread by Spamdzilla and again used caps in a title ^^

@topic: With current grindfest I see no problem with the fact crafting sets are part of BiS setups. It's a nice balance between acquiring mats for part of the setup, and dropping rest of it. End-game players are doing trials mostly for achievements and leaderboards, not for loot (except Staves/daggers). If you need trial armor pieces you can get it on normal in couple of hours, anyway. If you need gold jewerly, 1 vet trial is mostly enough, 12 ppl will surely drop the thing you are looking for.

ArchMikem

Crafting is a very large part of our characters and you want to make it completely useless? The entire point is to get our characters to Endgame as fast as possible and if crafted sets become irrelevent then whats the point of leveling the crafting trees at all?

Zer0oo

Again caps in titel?

And no i like that crafted sets are quite good. Players should be good because they have the skills and not because they got carried by sets. (also i can't really be brother to farm anything in this game anymore- login play alittle logoff)

Biro123

In so many games, crafting is a useless and pointless timesink for newbs who havnt yet realized they're just wasting their time.

Crafted gear absolutely should have a place in endgame builds.

eso_nya

I think u got that somewhat wrong.

Crafted gear is not BiS. With the ongoing changes since OT, the difference between the sets becomes smaller and smaller.
Back w/ OT, when i realised how long it would take to grind perfect weapons, the difference of only ~5% less dmg done suddenly didnt look so bad anymore.

Right now, it is "you can craft a set and be done, or grind <someplace> for a couple of month to get a set that will prolly increase your dps by 0,49%".

So crafted is not BiS but can be your meta (definitely wins for "e").

Beardimus

You couldn't be more wrong.

Meta has been dropped sets for years, and a handful at that. Finally they corrected it to bring crafted back in the zone, if most builds are 50/50 that's perfect.

Locking gear behind content people hate is stupid, and getting 9 trait crafting should be rewarded more not less.

Ignore other MMOs this is ESO and the balance is a good thing.

Grinding gear dulls peoples minds to content, and doesn't help longevity. Being able to use motifs, crafters, get exactly what you want is perfect for an MMORPG

AcadianPaladin

I don't care about vet content and any group dungeons I run are purely for fun. There is not a single dungeon item on any of my characters. They either wear craftedx5 + overland dropx5 or craftedx5 + craftedx3 + overlandx3(jewelry). Though I enjoy some dungeon diving, farming for specific gear with specific traits is not fun for me. And I play for fun. Happily, since I don't really care about vet/end content, I don't really need the dungeon gear.

If I HAD to farm dungeons for decent gear, I'd find another game. Farming dolmens for 3xpurple jewelry is all the farming I'll do and, frankly, I find dolemens kind of fun anyway.

For my pet sorc in Julianos + Necro it is fine. My magplar healer probably will never see SPC though and she does just fine for the content she enjoys (which is not vet dungeons/trials).

Zer0oo

Also in crafted gear you normally look better than in dropped gear. On my sorc i had to wear a costume for ages since necro looks ugly as hell.

Ratzkifal

This is probably the worst idea I've read in the forums so far.
Making craftable gear as good as dropped gear gives people reasons to learn crafts. If no good gear is craftable, people will stop looking for/buying/caring for motifs. Crafting materials will become pointless, the ingame economy will crash and ESO will run into the same problems that other MMOs like these do. Golden upgrade materials would probably be the only items that actually kept some of their value.
You should be happy that monster sets and trial weapons exist and that jewelry crafting is not a thing. Anything beyond that is just ridiculous and harmful to the game.

kessik221

This game is very much catered to casual gaming. That being said, BIS craftables are not uncommon in other mmos. Take WoW for example, a lot of the blacksmithing pieces were very good for end game. I mean if you want to craft dro'mathra too, you have to raid maw for the motif\materials.

fred4

@Shadzilla: Boooooo!

Huyen

Vimora wrote: »

And that would probably make me quit the game immediately. I know it's weird but looks are important to me. Currently, I have some control over the looks of my toons via crafted gear. If crafted gear is excluded from bis, that goes away and so did I.

I wouldnt bother to much about that buddy, since Transmogrification is comming soonish. That way you can still use BiS gear (about wich I dont give a skeevers ass), and look amazingly good.

Hawco10

Crafted gear should be BIS. Some of us have spent a lot of time researching every trait and style. So why should they not be BIS? Not that they are now anyway, but they should be.

Hawco10

kessik221 wrote: »

This game is very much catered to casual gaming. That being said, BIS craftables are not uncommon in other mmos. Take WoW for example, a lot of the blacksmithing pieces were very good for end game. I mean if you want to craft dro'mathra too, you have to raid maw for the motif\materials.

ESO is not WOW, nor should it be even close to WOW.

Shadzilla

gethemshauna wrote: »

And again... Another pointless thread by Spamdzilla and again used caps in a title ^^

@topic: With current grindfest I see no problem with the fact crafting sets are part of BiS setups. It's a nice balance between acquiring mats for part of the setup, and dropping rest of it. End-game players are doing trials mostly for achievements and leaderboards, not for loot (except Staves/daggers). If you need trial armor pieces you can get it on normal in couple of hours, anyway. If you need gold jewerly, 1 vet trial is mostly enough, 12 ppl will surely drop the thing you are looking for.

I feel honored you speak so highly of my opinions. You are similar to that one level 32 in a massive zerg that comes over and makes sure to teabag me when I drop to 30 people, even though you didn't have any part of it. I feel special when people deliberately go out of their way to do that kind of thing, makes feel good . Many of my threads have generated a large amount of positive feedback, I am sure you are aware of that.

ArchMikem wrote: »

Crafting is a very large part of our characters and you want to make it completely useless? The entire point is to get our characters to Endgame as fast as possible and if crafted sets become irrelevent then whats the point of leveling the crafting trees at all?

I didn't say completely useless, I said on a lower tier. I prefer that the best possible gear should be dropped from the hardest content, not easily craftable or purchasable by anyone... Call me crazy?

Zer0oo wrote: »

Again caps in titel?

And no i like that crafted sets are quite good. Players should be good because they have the skills and not because they got carried by sets. (also i can't really be brother to farm anything in this game anymore- login play alittle logoff)

Titles are easier to read in caps, I like it . Regardless of what sets are bis, rotation and skill will always stand out. The noobs that cannot pull a rotation will never attain good dps, from any set, ever.

Beardimus wrote: »

You couldn't be more wrong.

Meta has been dropped sets for years, and a handful at that. Finally they corrected it to bring crafted back in the zone, if most builds are 50/50 that's perfect.

Locking gear behind content people hate is stupid, and getting 9 trait crafting should be rewarded more not less.

Ignore other MMOs this is ESO and the balance is a good thing.

Grinding gear dulls peoples minds to content, and doesn't help longevity. Being able to use motifs, crafters, get exactly what you want is perfect for an MMORPG

Meta has been dropped sets for years? My bad, I guess the 18 month long twice born star meta has been forgotten? Nightmothers, hundings, julianos, shackle, histbark, armor master, tavas, seducer, etc... Are you telling me in the last 3.5 years none of these sets have been involved in meta builds? I would have to disagree with that, big time... Just the massive damage output twice born was doing for me for well over a year was incomparable to say the least...

Ratzkifal wrote: »

This is probably the worst idea I've read in the forums so far.
Making craftable gear as good as dropped gear gives people reasons to learn crafts. If no good gear is craftable, people will stop looking for/buying/caring for motifs. Crafting materials will become pointless, the ingame economy will crash and ESO will run into the same problems that other MMOs like these do. Golden upgrade materials would probably be the only items that actually kept some of their value.
You should be happy that monster sets and trial weapons exist and that jewelry crafting is not a thing. Anything beyond that is just ridiculous and harmful to the game.

Alright. So if jewelry crafting, monster sets + shoulders, maestrom master + asylum weapons, etc were all obtainable by purchasing with gold you think that would be a better direction for the game? I am so confused here... This is the only MMO I have played where some of the best possible gear is so easily obtained. Most other games the crafted sets are a tier lower, and you would upgrade that gear after doing endgame content... Seems like the general consensus in this game is that all the best gear should just be bought with gold, and clearing the end game content should be rewarded with no higher tier gear, just bragging rights for high scores. That is interesting, in all honesty I like the idea of the best gear possible being locked behind the hardest content possible. Maybe I am crazy.

Hawco10 wrote: »

Crafted gear should be BIS. Some of us have spent a lot of time researching every trait and style. So why should they not be BIS? Not that they are now anyway, but they should be.

Crafted sets are required for a large amount of bis builds currently... Hundings, nightmothers, julianos, just to list a few relating to pve dps...

Izaki

gethemshauna wrote: »

And again... Another pointless thread by Spamdzilla and again used caps in a title ^^

@topic: With current grindfest I see no problem with the fact crafting sets are part of BiS setups. It's a nice balance between acquiring mats for part of the setup, and dropping rest of it. End-game players are doing trials mostly for achievements and leaderboards, not for loot (except Staves/daggers). If you need trial armor pieces you can get it on normal in couple of hours, anyway. If you need gold jewerly, 1 vet trial is mostly enough, 12 ppl will surely drop the thing you are looking for.

^^^^^^^^

Shadzilla

@gethemshauna @Izaki Just linking a few threads you can review that I would not consider pointless, that have had positive impacts on our game .

I am damn happy stamina dps are allowed in top tier trials runs now, regardless of how much complaining the community had to do.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/334157/stamina-dps-in-pve-fixed-for-morrowind#latest

Pretty stoked nightblades are not trash anymore.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/342362/rip-nightblades-assuming-they-were-alive-at-one-point#latest

Still have not had housing slots increased, but it is the only thread of its kind that ZOS has replied on.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/347925/poll-for-zos-are-you-happy-with-the-number-of-housing-slots-to-furnish-your-home#latest

Izaki

Shadzilla wrote: »

@gethemshauna @Izaki Just linking a few threads you can review that I would not consider pointless, that have had positive impacts on our game .

I am damn happy stamina dps are allowed in top tier trials runs now, regardless of how much complaining the community had to do.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/334157/stamina-dps-in-pve-fixed-for-morrowind#latest

Pretty stoked nightblades are not trash anymore.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/342362/rip-nightblades-assuming-they-were-alive-at-one-point#latest

Still have not had housing slots increased, but it is the only thread of its kind that ZOS has replied on.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/347925/poll-for-zos-are-you-happy-with-the-number-of-housing-slots-to-furnish-your-home#latest

Well I was actually referring more to the second part of Shauna's comment, but he does have a point, you do write in caps a lot As for the contents of your threads, I haven't read enough of them to form an opinion yet lol

Shadzilla

Izaki wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

@gethemshauna @Izaki Just linking a few threads you can review that I would not consider pointless, that have had positive impacts on our game .

I am damn happy stamina dps are allowed in top tier trials runs now, regardless of how much complaining the community had to do.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/334157/stamina-dps-in-pve-fixed-for-morrowind#latest

Pretty stoked nightblades are not trash anymore.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/342362/rip-nightblades-assuming-they-were-alive-at-one-point#latest

Still have not had housing slots increased, but it is the only thread of its kind that ZOS has replied on.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/347925/poll-for-zos-are-you-happy-with-the-number-of-housing-slots-to-furnish-your-home#latest

Well I was actually referring more to the second part of Shauna's comment, but he does have a point, you do write in caps a lot As for the contents of your threads, I haven't read enough of them to form an opinion yet lol

I think all titles should be in caps, easier to read .

Betsararie

OP has a point.

It doesn't take anything to obtain crafted sets, and making crafted set pieces is not an accomplishment.

Obtaining rare drops is an accomplishment, whether you will want to admit it or not.

Obtaining dropped gear pieces is much harder than simply crafting them, so it does make sense for them to be better, and I would agree that crafted gear is currently too prevalent in the meta. A 50/50 ratio of crafted vs dropped is not correct, you people just always have to have everything be equal when really that isn't the way things work.

I am fine with seeing maybe 1-2 crafted sets in the meta, but no more than that.

BigBadVolk

tbh I'm happy that crafted sets are "bis", but it would be better for example if there would be a 9 trait needed crafted Magicka set (and another option, a little bit boring to craft Jul all the time for pve )

Shadzilla

Blanco wrote: »

OP has a point.

It doesn't take anything to obtain crafted sets, and making crafted set pieces is not an accomplishment.

Obtaining rare drops is an accomplishment, whether you will want to admit it or not.

Obtaining dropped gear pieces is much harder than simply crafting them, so it does make sense for them to be better, and I would agree that crafted gear is currently too prevalent in the meta. A 50/50 ratio of crafted vs dropped is not correct, you people just always have to have everything be equal when really that isn't the way things work.

I am fine with seeing maybe 1-2 crafted sets in the meta, but no more than that.

YESSS, SOMEONE WHO UNDERSTANDS! My views are not super complicated... If your are doing the hardest content in the game, you should get rewarded with the best possible gear. Being able to spend a bit of gold to get the best possible gear does not make sense, at all.

zaria

eso_nya wrote: »

I think u got that somewhat wrong.

Crafted gear is not BiS. With the ongoing changes since OT, the difference between the sets becomes smaller and smaller.
Back w/ OT, when i realised how long it would take to grind perfect weapons, the difference of only ~5% less dmg done suddenly didnt look so bad anymore.

Right now, it is "you can craft a set and be done, or grind <someplace> for a couple of month to get a set that will prolly increase your dps by 0,49%".

So crafted is not BiS but can be your meta (definitely wins for "e").

Very good point, however you need an dungeon or overland set for jewelry, you want weapon crafted for trait, this is not that much an problem anymore but having different design on staffs is nice, large pieces crafted is nice for look.
On the other hand doing a dungeon on odd days for gear is an long term goal

zaria

BigBadVolk wrote: »

tbh I'm happy that crafted sets are "bis", but it would be better for example if there would be a 9 trait needed crafted Magicka set (and another option, a little bit boring to craft Jul all the time for pve )

Have made lots of gold selling julianos gear in guild store, why don't ask for it crafted instead and you get the style you want.
This one don't understand humans, luckily its few in Dominion