BIS SETUPS FOR PVE AND PVP - CRAFTED SETS

Betsararie

Zbigb4life wrote: »

Not everyone wants to participate in end-game pve. There is no need in difference between crafted and dropped sets.

Lol'd!!

Basically what you're saying here is, "I shouldn't have to play the game if I don't want to, but I still play the game anyway, so I deserve all the best gear without having to work for it."

Your logic FTW!!

BTW, I've always disagreed with trial sets being bad but from the time I've been playing they've never been good, so I haven't spent much time farming them, though I do have pieces from each set and some complete sets but they never see use.

Alternatively, dungeon sets are good, and are often used in PvP and take comparable amounts of time to farm.

Shadzilla

Blanco wrote: »

Zbigb4life wrote: »

Not everyone wants to participate in end-game pve. There is no need in difference between crafted and dropped sets.

Lol'd!!

Basically what you're saying here is, "I shouldn't have to play the game if I don't want to, but I still play the game anyway, so I deserve all the best gear without having to work for it."

Your logic FTW!!

BTW, I've always disagreed with trial sets being bad but from the time I've been playing they've never been good, so I haven't spent much time farming them, though I do have pieces from each set and some complete sets but they never see use.

Alternatively, dungeon sets are good, and are often used in PvP and take comparable amounts of time to farm.

@Blanco Couldn't agree more. "Hey I have some gold but I have never even done any sort of trial or end game content before, but I should be able to buy the best gear possible in the game with just gold though!!!" Yea makes a ton of sense..... This thread literally displays how many people out there that really do not run any sort of end game content, and it is quite sad and disappointing to be honest.

Artis

Yeah, OP is correct. Crafting set should be decent entry-level gear to start with. It's very easy to get and doesn't require actually playing content.

Like, OP here can buy everyone who commented here a crafting set for each of your alts. PM him. And he didn't even have to play any of your characters.

BrightOblivion wrote: »

In all seriousness, and ire aside, I could not disagree with this idea more. If crafted sets were significantly weaker across the board, why even bother having them in the game? They're just taking up space.
.

They should be good enough to start farming better sets.

Also crafting itself is useful because you need improve and sometimes re-enchant dropped gear.

TheValar85

well i dont know... i got confused all the time about sets, for example Julianos is so damn good al ot spell crits and so on for mag sorcerers, while in game other guides says you should have Netch set. well yeah it looks cool to have + 400 spell damage on lightning skills, but julianos gives more spell crit then netch does. well i hope i dont have to mind how important is the spell crits for non combat pet builds for mag sorces. surly the moondancer set jewlery is cool :P but will power sett was also good to with spell damage. I dont know things getting messed up recently in this game. Including magicka regen what ZOS removed from the champ tree. (curse uppon you for that ZOS)

Zvorgin

Some people complain about anything, if Zos got rid of lag people on the forum would still complain.

TheValar85

Hawco10 wrote: »

Crafted gear should be BIS. Some of us have spent a lot of time researching every trait and style. So why should they not be BIS? Not that they are now anyway, but they should be.

I have to agree with your point complitly. And i am not a casual.

KrazyKooter

No offense, but the idea feels pretty elitist, short sighted, and in direct conflict with the intended gameplay of ESO.

There is already an influx of N00bs newer players from the Morrowind release queueing into Vet content where they should not be(yet). What you are describing would only exaggerate the problem and somewhat diminish the crafting system which so many players put a lot of time into. I was impressed to find that ESO as a MMO actually made the crafting system meaningful to the game. I think it helps to level the playing field.

Anyway I would foresee major issues with people flocking to places that they either shouldn't be (Vet content) or that they don't really care about. (I need to take 10 more keeps for X armor set and then I'm bailing out of Cyrodiil)

IF IT AIN'T BROKE.........

TheValar85

Niobium wrote: »

I absolutely think that the best gear in game should be put behind the hardest content in game or GTFO scrubs you don't deserve it.

Crafters who spend months upon months researching to get the full nine traits are so terribad when they could have just been grinding dungeons and raids. Getting crafted gear is so easy!

Not just the crafted gear but all those weapons people chase in a solo arena should be put in raids. And let's not stop there - let's make then 24 player raids.. or 50 player! Yes, 50.. with such complex mechanics that only the best of the best of the best with flawless rotations and sub-20ping (sorry Oceanics, you guys suck too much to have good stuff) can ever possibly hope to attain them.

And definitely every single activity should have a different achievement tied to it before you can even be allowed to try and get gear for it.

Yep, winning strategy to gate stuff right there. ZOS should totally do it.

You are disgusting.

Aurielle

The fact that some of the best gear in this game is NOT gated by the hardest content is part of what makes it great (IMO). Not all of us have the time or the desire to grind vet trials ad nauseum until we get the set pieces we want.

Having a mix of great crafted sets, great BoE overland sets, and great BoP dungeon/trial sets is nice, because it gives us different pathways to a preferred stat combination. It also means we can tinker with different playstyles without having to invest huge amounts of time into acquiring the gear that would make those different playstyles possible. I decided today, for instance, that I wanted to dust off my Khajiit NB and give ganking a whirl (something I've never tried). I still need to spend a little bit of time leveling up a few skills I'd neglected when originally building the character for PVE, but the gear is at least taken care of, thanks to guild vendors. If I had to spend months grinding the same content over and over again with eleven other people just to get the gear I need, I can 100% guarantee you that I wouldn't have bothered.

Easy access to BIS gear for particular roles means more time to spend actually playing the game. Why is that a bad thing? I know some people really like to raid for exclusive, difficult-to-acquire gear, but those people have been in the minority in every MMO I've ever played. ESO is one of the few that gets it right, as it acknowledges that not everyone has the time required to be a "hardcore" MMO gamer.

Daedric_NB_187

No thanks.

MLGProPlayer

The meta fluctuates. There have been patches where I didn't use any crafted gear.

Ravingar

First off, like there are actually a lot of non crafted sets which can severely outperform crafted sets such as many sets from Trials. And for a lot of people crafted sets let people decide how their character looks. You can craft with whatever style you want, and with whatever trait. For master crafters, crafted sets make life a lot easier. But an end game build would never have two crafted sets

Crafting CP160 gear is already hella expensive if you didn't know that already, and its not like we can craft Jewellery. Non crafted sets, and crafted sets are pretty much balanced overall.

srfrogg23

Crafting takes a lot of time and skill points to make that BiS gear. The trade off is worth it. I like it that way.

disintegr8

I am happy with the way it works now, partly because I will probably never complete vMA or any vet trials, partly because I have put a lot of effort getting my characters leveled up in crafting skills.

With the way crafting is set up at the moment, with long research times and the skill points you pour into it, sets that require 7, 8 and 9 trait knowledge should be up there among the best in the game.

If any change is made to genuinely drop the quality of crafted sets, they would have to redesign the way you level the crafted lines up as well as the research times otherwise nobody will bother doing it.

The OP's suggestion is that only dedication to end game content should get you decent gear, meaning that is more important than other aspects of the game. We all enjoy different aspects of the game and nobody should be less deserving of enjoyment than anyone else.

BTW - You could put any of my characters in the absolute BiS gear, with Maelstrom weapons, and I would still be relatively easy to kill in PVP and duels. It is not the gear that makes the player.

Shadzilla

disintegr8 wrote: »

I am happy with the way it works now, partly because I will probably never complete vMA or any vet trials, partly because I have put a lot of effort getting my characters leveled up in crafting skills.

With the way crafting is set up at the moment, with long research times and the skill points you pour into it, sets that require 7, 8 and 9 trait knowledge should be up there among the best in the game.

If any change is made to genuinely drop the quality of crafted sets, they would have to redesign the way you level the crafted lines up as well as the research times otherwise nobody will bother doing it.

The OP's suggestion is that only dedication to end game content should get you decent gear, meaning that is more important than other aspects of the game. We all enjoy different aspects of the game and nobody should be less deserving of enjoyment than anyone else.

BTW - You could put any of my characters in the absolute BiS gear, with Maelstrom weapons, and I would still be relatively easy to kill in PVP and duels. It is not the gear that makes the player.

Crafted gear should be used as a stepping stone for doing end game pvp or pve content. Once in said content, you should be upgrading to higher tier gear sets for both pve and pvp. I am not saying that crafted gear should be horrible and useless, but it should be a bit lower of caliber compared to stuff achieved at the end game level.

Crafted gear would still be decent if it was "a bit lower of caliber" compared to the best possible gear. Its not like it would be trash or unusable in any way shape or form.

Iluvrien

Shadzilla wrote: »

disintegr8 wrote: »

I am happy with the way it works now, partly because I will probably never complete vMA or any vet trials, partly because I have put a lot of effort getting my characters leveled up in crafting skills.

With the way crafting is set up at the moment, with long research times and the skill points you pour into it, sets that require 7, 8 and 9 trait knowledge should be up there among the best in the game.

If any change is made to genuinely drop the quality of crafted sets, they would have to redesign the way you level the crafted lines up as well as the research times otherwise nobody will bother doing it.

The OP's suggestion is that only dedication to end game content should get you decent gear, meaning that is more important than other aspects of the game. We all enjoy different aspects of the game and nobody should be less deserving of enjoyment than anyone else.

BTW - You could put any of my characters in the absolute BiS gear, with Maelstrom weapons, and I would still be relatively easy to kill in PVP and duels. It is not the gear that makes the player.

Crafted gear should be used as a stepping stone for doing end game pvp or pve content. Once in said content, you should be upgrading to higher tier gear sets for both pve and pvp. I am not saying that crafted gear should be horrible and useless, but it should be a bit lower of caliber compared to stuff achieved at the end game level.

Crafted gear would still be decent if it was "a bit lower of caliber" compared to the best possible gear. Its not like it would be trash or unusable in any way shape or form.

"Should be used.."?

By what objective standard are you gauging this?

("X other MMO(s) do it that way" isn't an objective standard. A novel approach to a system/mechanic is not automatically in error)

Shadzilla

Iluvrien wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

disintegr8 wrote: »

I am happy with the way it works now, partly because I will probably never complete vMA or any vet trials, partly because I have put a lot of effort getting my characters leveled up in crafting skills.

With the way crafting is set up at the moment, with long research times and the skill points you pour into it, sets that require 7, 8 and 9 trait knowledge should be up there among the best in the game.

If any change is made to genuinely drop the quality of crafted sets, they would have to redesign the way you level the crafted lines up as well as the research times otherwise nobody will bother doing it.

The OP's suggestion is that only dedication to end game content should get you decent gear, meaning that is more important than other aspects of the game. We all enjoy different aspects of the game and nobody should be less deserving of enjoyment than anyone else.

BTW - You could put any of my characters in the absolute BiS gear, with Maelstrom weapons, and I would still be relatively easy to kill in PVP and duels. It is not the gear that makes the player.

Crafted gear should be used as a stepping stone for doing end game pvp or pve content. Once in said content, you should be upgrading to higher tier gear sets for both pve and pvp. I am not saying that crafted gear should be horrible and useless, but it should be a bit lower of caliber compared to stuff achieved at the end game level.

Crafted gear would still be decent if it was "a bit lower of caliber" compared to the best possible gear. Its not like it would be trash or unusable in any way shape or form.

"Should be used.."?

By what objective standard are you gauging this?

("X other MMO(s) do it that way" isn't an objective standard. A novel approach to a system/mechanic is not automatically in error)

Logic is the answer. What games do you know of that you can literally have some of the best gear in the game given to you within seconds of you first stepping into the game? Not many. Usually the way things work is you get certain gear and abilities that are rather weak to start, then things progressively improve over the course of the game. Usually resulting in players getting the best gear possible near the end of the game... This is not a difficult concept to grasp, and is the standard in 95% of video games that have existed. Logic...

Iluvrien

Flawed and Hyperbolic.

Hunding's and Julianos are (if memory serves) 6 trait sets. To self craft these (even at the lowest tier) would require time to research those traits for each item you wanted to create and then the time required to level your crafting skills to 50, as well as the skill points invested in the crafting skill lines, not to mention the upgrade materials (and skills) to purple/gold them... after which you have to have the number of CP to actually wear them.

And you imply that it is akin to "within seconds of you first stepping into the game". A little hyperbolic don't you think?

If you are complaining that crafted items are tradeable then you are engaging in an argument about BoP vs BoE not the creation method or utility itself.

There is a progression from weak to strong in this game. It just allows for more than one play style to form the basis of that progression. Stop trying to decrease the enjoyment of others.

Kamatsu

So basically to sum up this thread:

Please turn ESO into a raiding gear treadmill clone of WoW.

Because that is basically what he's asking for - for the game to be turned into a raiding gear treadmill, where when you finish the story you kit out in crafted & dungeon gear, then hit the base game Trials for the next tier of gear. This tier of gear will then kit you out for the current DLC trials... and this gear will get you ready for the next/upcoming Trials, etc.

Oh, and don't forget that to do the higher tier Trials requires your stats to be high enough to do enough dps & hps... so this means you would need the gear from the prior Trials to complete! Because what would be the point if any old Joe Shmoe could kit up in dungeon & crafted gear and complete the latest & hardest Trials? Nope, they'd need to be excluded by dps & hps check's.... to force them into the gear treadmill to aquire each tier of gear to get to the next tier of Trials, so they can grind them for gear to kit out for the next tier of Trials!

In a nutshell: an elitist (or wannabee elitsit) who wants to turn ESO into what WoW used to be like at the prime of it's raiding days, and exclude "casuals" from higher end content and the best gear... so that he & few others will actually have access to it and thus can lord it over everyone that they have the BiS gear that is unreachable, or nearly, so for the common player.

Don't believe me? Look at the complaint: That BiS for many builds includes crafted gear, and crafted gear is 100% accessible to everyone. His solution? Move BiS to be Trial's only, which is not accessible to the majority of players. And yes, Trials are not done by the vast majority of players, and those who do try via PUGS... generally fail a lot.

So his idea would make BiS inaccessible to the majority of players.... and one only has to see the community toxicity that this kind of system brings to see why many, many ppl do not want to see this happen to ESO. Look at end-game WoW raiding community & how toxic it is to most players, look at FFXIV end-game community and see how toxic they are to most other players, etc. Look at any game that has a gear treadmill as it's end-game, and you will see a toxic community that pisses on all the common players, non-raiders, or low-level raider's who try and PUG it.

Shadzilla

Iluvrien wrote: »

Flawed and Hyperbolic.

Hunding's and Julianos are (if memory serves) 6 trait sets. To self craft these (even at the lowest tier) would require time to research those traits for each item you wanted to create and then the time required to level your crafting skills to 50, as well as the skill points invested in the crafting skill lines, not to mention the upgrade materials (and skills) to purple/gold them... after which you have to have the number of CP to actually wear them.

And you imply that it is akin to "within seconds of you first stepping into the game". A little hyperbolic don't you think?

If you are complaining that crafted items are tradeable then you are engaging in an argument about BoP vs BoE not the creation method or utility itself.

There is a progression from weak to strong in this game. It just allows for more than one play style to form the basis of that progression. Stop trying to decrease the enjoyment of others.

The argument is about gear that is able to be attained via being sent from another player, being just as strong (if not more in many builds) versus gear that is acquired from running the hardest content in the game... You can try and twist vocabulary around and argue it as a BOP vs BOE topic, but that is exactly what this thread has been about since the start... Your argument is obtaining some of the best gear in the game should be able to be done via BOE, that is fine. My argument is that BOE gear should be a stepping stone into players running end game content. Once in said content (whether it be pve or pvp) there should be new, higher tiered gear, that players can obtain. Giving more enjoyment and feelings of successful progression for the people that run the hardest content this game has to offer. I highly doubt it will change, but that is my opinion. Regardless, trash players will always be trash no matter what gear they have. It is rather weird that a vast amount of major aspects of gear obtaining are so ridiculously easy... Please do me a favor, do not accuse me of trying to decrease enjoyment of others when the logical reasoning behind my theory clearly points towards people having more enjoyment of the end game content.

Beat harder things = get better stuffs??? Go to store and buy best stuffs possible??? Crazy!!! How dare I throw such a ridiculous suggestion out... What kind of game gives you better rewards for completing harder content!?!? My bad!

Shadzilla

Kamatsu wrote: »

So basically to sum up this thread:

Please turn ESO into a raiding gear treadmill clone of WoW.

Because that is basically what he's asking for - for the game to be turned into a raiding gear treadmill, where when you finish the story you kit out in crafted & dungeon gear, then hit the base game Trials for the next tier of gear. This tier of gear will then kit you out for the current DLC trials... and this gear will get you ready for the next/upcoming Trials, etc.

Oh, and don't forget that to do the higher tier Trials requires your stats to be high enough to do enough dps & hps... so this means you would need the gear from the prior Trials to complete! Because what would be the point if any old Joe Shmoe could kit up in dungeon & crafted gear and complete the latest & hardest Trials? Nope, they'd need to be excluded by dps & hps check's.... to force them into the gear treadmill to aquire each tier of gear to get to the next tier of Trials, so they can grind them for gear to kit out for the next tier of Trials!

In a nutshell: an elitist (or wannabee elitsit) who wants to turn ESO into what WoW used to be like at the prime of it's raiding days, and exclude "casuals" from higher end content and the best gear... so that he & few others will actually have access to it and thus can lord it over everyone that they have the BiS gear that is unreachable, or nearly, so for the common player.

Don't believe me? Look at the complaint: That BiS for many builds includes crafted gear, and crafted gear is 100% accessible to everyone. His solution? Move BiS to be Trial's only, which is not accessible to the majority of players. And yes, Trials are not done by the vast majority of players, and those who do try via PUGS... generally fail a lot.

So his idea would make BiS inaccessible to the majority of players.... and one only has to see the community toxicity that this kind of system brings to see why many, many ppl do not want to see this happen to ESO. Look at end-game WoW raiding community & how toxic it is to most players, look at FFXIV end-game community and see how toxic they are to most other players, etc. Look at any game that has a gear treadmill as it's end-game, and you will see a toxic community that pisses on all the common players, non-raiders, or low-level raider's who try and PUG it.

I am going to highlight in bold the things you should read again.

This thread is about the power of crafted sets. From the other MMO`s I have played, the top tier gear was always acquired by doing the hardest content. In this game, most builds still incorporate at least one 5 piece crafted set. Is this right? I mean honestly, what if crafted sets were actually a noticeable level below the gear you received in end game pve content? What if there were a bunch of new gear sets specifically tailored towards pvp that required certain goals or achievements (ex. win 25 bgs or capture 50 keeps) or that cost a massive amounts of ap and tel var? I am not going to go through every pve/pvp role or build and talk about the sets being used, but lets be honest here... Craftable sets are currently involved in a very large amount of BIS builds, I personally think this is weird and should be looked into/fixed. In my opinion, I would like to see endgame pve content start dropping gear specifically tailored to pve content that outperforms crafted sets, not vice versa. I would also like to see a pvp vendor tailored specifically towards pvp content. That vendor having very expensive or hard to get gear which clearly outperforms crafted sets. Crafted gear should be used as a stepping stone for doing end game pvp or pve content. Once in said content, you should be upgrading to higher tier gear sets for both pve and pvp. I am not saying that crafted gear should be horrible and useless, but it should be a bit lower of caliber compared to stuff achieved at the end game level. I welcome all opinions.

This suggestion does not focus on just trials... There are many suggestions about pvp gear as well, read it again. Beat harder things = get better stuffs??? Go to store and buy best stuffs possible??? Crazy!!! How dare I throw such a ridiculous suggestion out... What kind of game gives you better rewards for completing harder content!?!? You are correct, people that really do not pve or pvp at all should be able to just go to a store and buy the best gear possible. That way everyone can have all the best gear, and doing pvp/pve content will continue to reward nothing but a bit of gold/ap and bragging rights.

Dubhliam

Zer0oo wrote: »

Again caps in titel?

He is as annoying as a certain PC EU PvPer that seems to have a broken caps lock key.

Iluvrien

Shadzilla wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

Flawed and Hyperbolic.

Hunding's and Julianos are (if memory serves) 6 trait sets. To self craft these (even at the lowest tier) would require time to research those traits for each item you wanted to create and then the time required to level your crafting skills to 50, as well as the skill points invested in the crafting skill lines, not to mention the upgrade materials (and skills) to purple/gold them... after which you have to have the number of CP to actually wear them.

And you imply that it is akin to "within seconds of you first stepping into the game". A little hyperbolic don't you think?

If you are complaining that crafted items are tradeable then you are engaging in an argument about BoP vs BoE not the creation method or utility itself.

There is a progression from weak to strong in this game. It just allows for more than one play style to form the basis of that progression. Stop trying to decrease the enjoyment of others.

The argument is about gear that is able to be attained via being sent from another player, being just as strong (if not more in many builds) versus gear that is acquired from running the hardest content in the game... You can try and twist vocabulary around and argue it as a BOP vs BOE topic, but that is exactly what this thread has been about since the start... Your argument is obtaining some of the best gear in the game should be able to be done via BOE, that is fine. My argument is that BOE gear should be a stepping stone into players running end game content. Once in said content (whether it be pve or pvp) there should be new, higher tiered gear, that players can obtain. Giving more enjoyment and feelings of successful progression for the people that run the hardest content this game has to offer. I highly doubt it will change, but that is my opinion. Regardless, trash players will always be trash no matter what gear they have. It is rather weird that a vast amount of major aspects of gear obtaining are so ridiculously easy... Please do me a favor, do not accuse me of trying to decrease enjoyment of others when the logical reasoning behind my theory clearly points towards people having more enjoyment of the end game content.

Beat harder things = get better stuffs??? Go to store and buy best stuffs possible??? Crazy!!! How dare I throw such a ridiculous suggestion out... What kind of game gives you better rewards for completing harder content!?!? My bad!

I have highlighted the flaw in your argument. The one you keep making. You are in favour of increasing the enjoyment of the end game content. What proportion of players play the kind of endgame content (VMA, VDSA or Trials) that is likely to drop the kinds of equipment that you seem to be referring to? Because unless that percentage is 100% then decreasing the effectiveness of the crafted gear will impact the players who don't.

Your argument is flawed because you not only consider only one play style worthy... you only consider one play style.

When you can demonstrably prove why decreasing the effectiveness of crafted sets will in no way affect the utility and enjoyment of the players who don't play endgame... then you will have a complete argument.

Motherball

Its almost like they want people to be able to play the content without running on a hampster wheel first.

bloodthirstyvampire

Zer0oo wrote: »

Again caps in titel?

And no i like that crafted sets are quite good. Players should be good because they have the skills and not because they got carried by sets. (also i can't really be brother to farm anything in this game anymore- login play alittle logoff)

It's title

Argah

Shadzilla wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Zbigb4life wrote: »

Not everyone wants to participate in end-game pve. There is no need in difference between crafted and dropped sets.

Lol'd!!

Basically what you're saying here is, "I shouldn't have to play the game if I don't want to, but I still play the game anyway, so I deserve all the best gear without having to work for it."

Your logic FTW!!

BTW, I've always disagreed with trial sets being bad but from the time I've been playing they've never been good, so I haven't spent much time farming them, though I do have pieces from each set and some complete sets but they never see use.

Alternatively, dungeon sets are good, and are often used in PvP and take comparable amounts of time to farm.

@Blanco Couldn't agree more. "Hey I have some gold but I have never even done any sort of trial or end game content before, but I should be able to buy the best gear possible in the game with just gold though!!!" Yea makes a ton of sense..... This thread literally displays how many people out there that really do not run any sort of end game content, and it is quite sad and disappointing to be honest.

I done some higher up content before and god was I bored asf, didn't find anything even slightly difficult just tedious, worst of any game ever and not surprised most don't go near it.

Shadzilla

Iluvrien wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

Flawed and Hyperbolic.

Hunding's and Julianos are (if memory serves) 6 trait sets. To self craft these (even at the lowest tier) would require time to research those traits for each item you wanted to create and then the time required to level your crafting skills to 50, as well as the skill points invested in the crafting skill lines, not to mention the upgrade materials (and skills) to purple/gold them... after which you have to have the number of CP to actually wear them.

And you imply that it is akin to "within seconds of you first stepping into the game". A little hyperbolic don't you think?

If you are complaining that crafted items are tradeable then you are engaging in an argument about BoP vs BoE not the creation method or utility itself.

There is a progression from weak to strong in this game. It just allows for more than one play style to form the basis of that progression. Stop trying to decrease the enjoyment of others.

The argument is about gear that is able to be attained via being sent from another player, being just as strong (if not more in many builds) versus gear that is acquired from running the hardest content in the game... You can try and twist vocabulary around and argue it as a BOP vs BOE topic, but that is exactly what this thread has been about since the start... Your argument is obtaining some of the best gear in the game should be able to be done via BOE, that is fine. My argument is that BOE gear should be a stepping stone into players running end game content. Once in said content (whether it be pve or pvp) there should be new, higher tiered gear, that players can obtain. Giving more enjoyment and feelings of successful progression for the people that run the hardest content this game has to offer. I highly doubt it will change, but that is my opinion. Regardless, trash players will always be trash no matter what gear they have. It is rather weird that a vast amount of major aspects of gear obtaining are so ridiculously easy... Please do me a favor, do not accuse me of trying to decrease enjoyment of others when the logical reasoning behind my theory clearly points towards people having more enjoyment of the end game content.

Beat harder things = get better stuffs??? Go to store and buy best stuffs possible??? Crazy!!! How dare I throw such a ridiculous suggestion out... What kind of game gives you better rewards for completing harder content!?!? My bad!

I have highlighted the flaw in your argument. The one you keep making. You are in favour of increasing the enjoyment of the end game content. What proportion of players play the kind of endgame content (VMA, VDSA or Trials) that is likely to drop the kinds of equipment that you seem to be referring to? Because unless that percentage is 100% then decreasing the effectiveness of the crafted gear will impact the players who don't.

Your argument is flawed because you not only consider only one play style worthy... you only consider one play style.

When you can demonstrably prove why decreasing the effectiveness of crafted sets will in no way affect the utility and enjoyment of the players who don't play endgame... then you will have a complete argument.

Why do you constantly refer to just pve? Go read the post again... The concept is simple. In both pve and pvp crafted sets are used as stepping stones to get better gear in both aspects of the game. What game do you know of where you stop improving your gear halfway through due to the fact you already achieved the best? Does not make much sense bud. If you keep progressing through a game you should keep upgrading things while doing so... Your logic is someone who does not do much of anything should have the best possible gear available through BOE... Versus people that spend more time and achieve more accomplishments in pve or pvp that do not come across higher tiered gear? This argument considers both pve and pvp playstyles... Which is everything this game has to offer? I can understand you do not run end game content, which is fine. Do not feel that your crafted sets will be horrific or trash in any way... Why are you so angry about a buff to the gear in end game content? The crafted gear will not get nerfed, your stats/abilities would stay the same rendering them unchanged in any way... A small buff suggestion to gear achieved for end game situations really aggravates you that much?

Kamatsu

Shadzilla wrote: »

This suggestion does not focus on just trials... There are many suggestions about pvp gear as well, read it again. Beat harder things = get better stuffs??? Go to store and buy best stuffs possible??? Crazy!!! How dare I throw such a ridiculous suggestion out... What kind of game gives you better rewards for completing harder content!?!? You are correct, people that really do not pve or pvp at all should be able to just go to a store and buy the best gear possible. That way everyone can have all the best gear, and doing pvp/pve content will continue to reward nothing but a bit of gold/ap and bragging rights.

Amusing attempt at redirection, since you obviously can't deny that your suggestion is exactly what I said it is:

An elitist wanting to lock the top gear from the common player, and force people into tiered grinding of harder and harder content (whether it's PvE or PvP) if they want the best gear. A suggestion that knows only a vast minority of players will ever even attempt such a gear treadmill grind, and thus allow you & the few to lord it over everyone else that you have the best gear that they can't get.

In fact, to quote you from another post:

"My argument is that BOE gear should be a stepping stone into players running end game content. Once in said content (whether it be pve or pvp) there should be new, higher tiered gear, that players can obtain."

So exactly what I said - an elitist whose sad that he can't be an elitist in ESO since everyone has access to some/most/all (depending on class & build) of the BiS gear available, and wants it to be changed.

As for a game that works like ESO? Guild wars 2 did so for it's base game, and it was extremely successful at it (till they ruined the game by listening to ppl like you who demanded raids, tiered gear, harder content, forced grouping, etc... and drove players away massively due to this). Every player could easily get 'exotic' gear, which was the 2nd best gear statistically.. and Ascended gear was only better slightly, useful only in 1 section of the game, and could be bought off the store or made by grinding craft skills up. Yes, the best gear was crafted.

And fact is ZOS would be financially stupid to listen to you. Players like you who desire tiered raiding gear treadmills (whether PvP or PvE) are in the vast minority of players, and the least likely to purchase things on the crown store. So spending money & time catering to you would be a loss to them - as ANet found out the hard way, after suffering a 67% loss in income after the launch of the hardcore raider group-only friendly HoT expansion.

Shadzilla

Kamatsu wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

This suggestion does not focus on just trials... There are many suggestions about pvp gear as well, read it again. Beat harder things = get better stuffs??? Go to store and buy best stuffs possible??? Crazy!!! How dare I throw such a ridiculous suggestion out... What kind of game gives you better rewards for completing harder content!?!? You are correct, people that really do not pve or pvp at all should be able to just go to a store and buy the best gear possible. That way everyone can have all the best gear, and doing pvp/pve content will continue to reward nothing but a bit of gold/ap and bragging rights.

Amusing attempt at redirection, since you obviously can't deny that your suggestion is exactly what I said it is:

An elitist wanting to lock the top gear from the common player, and force people into tiered grinding of harder and harder content (whether it's PvE or PvP) if they want the best gear. A suggestion that knows only a vast minority of players will ever even attempt such a gear treadmill grind, and thus allow you & the few to lord it over everyone else that you have the best gear that they can't get.

In fact, to quote you from another post:

"My argument is that BOE gear should be a stepping stone into players running end game content. Once in said content (whether it be pve or pvp) there should be new, higher tiered gear, that players can obtain."

So exactly what I said - an elitist whose sad that he can't be an elitist in ESO since everyone has access to some/most/all (depending on class & build) of the BiS gear available, and wants it to be changed.

As for a game that works like ESO? Guild wars 2 did so for it's base game, and it was extremely successful at it (till they ruined the game by listening to ppl like you who demanded raids, tiered gear, harder content, forced grouping, etc... and drove players away massively due to this). Every player could easily get 'exotic' gear, which was the 2nd best gear statistically.. and Ascended gear was only better slightly, useful only in 1 section of the game, and could be bought off the store or made by grinding craft skills up. Yes, the best gear was crafted.

And fact is ZOS would be financially stupid to listen to you. Players like you who desire tiered raiding gear treadmills (whether PvP or PvE) are in the vast minority of players, and the least likely to purchase things on the crown store. So spending money & time catering to you would be a loss to them - as ANet found out the hard way, after suffering a 67% loss in income after the launch of the hardcore raider group-only friendly HoT expansion.

Stop relating comments made directly to pve. This main aspect is relating to the lack of end game gear rewards you get for pvping as well... You have your opinion, people should be able to buy lots of bis gear with gold, that is fine. I personally, along with others, feel that games should keep progressing higher levels of gear for both pve and pvp the more you do it...

Shadzilla

Blanco wrote: »

OP has a point.

It doesn't take anything to obtain crafted sets, and making crafted set pieces is not an accomplishment.

Obtaining rare drops is an accomplishment, whether you will want to admit it or not.

Obtaining dropped gear pieces is much harder than simply crafting them, so it does make sense for them to be better, and I would agree that crafted gear is currently too prevalent in the meta. A 50/50 ratio of crafted vs dropped is not correct, you people just always have to have everything be equal when really that isn't the way things work.

I am fine with seeing maybe 1-2 crafted sets in the meta, but no more than that.