The Pact Dragon [PvE Trial Tank] by Luna Hlaalu

paulsimonps

So been wanting to make another build post for sometime now, but not had time and also I didn't want to post it until I got it 100% finished. It now is finished. Its my new Pact Dragon Tank, now as many will quickly see it contains things that are very commonly used, the point of this thread is to show my personal spin on it and explain why I made the choices I did with my build. So to start it off here are the main stats of the build and what gear I use.



As you can see I use a combination of Torug's Pact, Ebon Armory and Chokethorn+Shadowrend. I want to say quickly that I love the fact that the Chokethorn and Shadowrend combo have gotten more popular, have been running it for a LONG time now and at the start people called me stupid for using it. The reason behind my choice in Monster set pieces is the added support I can give with that much extra magicka recovery, I can use my Chains more, my Talons, my Igneous Shield. As well the fact that I can use my igneous shield more often helps the survival of others during AoE Boss mechanics and helps me sustain better with the Helping Hand passive. Many others use Bloodspawn and Lord Warden or even Chudan but I feel that the support I can give with this shines over that, Bloodspawn is only good if you have a really good warhorn rotation(a lot more than just going in a set 1-2-3-4 rotation), and Lord Warden is only good if the others are close to you, but it is much better now with its increased radius and is a solid choice.

Next up is Ebon Armory, the corner stone of any Tanking duo in Trials, gives everyone more health and adds to their ability to survive better. And as we all know "A dead DPS deals no Damage", so this should not need any more explanation than that. Torug's Pact, the last set bonus in my set up. With Infused weapons the Crusher Enchantment when wielding Torug's pact gives the target a 2740 spell and physical resistance debuff for 5s, and this is with a 3.5s cooldown. You can if you are focused and skilled, get basically a 100% up time on that. Now the obvious question is, why not Alkosh? I used to run Alkosh, but with the changes to Torugs and Infused to be as strong as they are I feel the reliability of Torug's out weighs that of Alkosh. Alkosh is a 3010 debuff for 10s but requires that you use a synergy, and with the unreliability of synergies in the game right now the up time is usually pretty low on that. However as I have discussed with others having an off tank run Alkosh and a DPS as well would be more preferred, that together with a main tank set up like this with Infused Torug's would give amazing up times on both debuffs, resulting in higher penetration in total. As well a skilled Torugs user can also get a nice up time on a very strong weakening enchantment too.

When it comes to my Enchantments and Champion points it is based on getting a well rounded mitigation base and strong sustain. I wanted at least 20k stamina, cause it helps a lot with sustaining, but also didn't want my magicka or health to suffer too much from this either, that is why I chose to use 7 Tri-glyphs. A nice and stable 35k Health as well, I know current meta has many run a lot higher but I still feel that this is enough to do basically anything, and since I am a Dunmer I can't get it that much higher. And no I am not a Dunmer out of Min Max reason, but I will come to that later. My Jewelry is also set to be all block cost, as well I use 100p into Shadow Ward that combined with skills and passives gets me to a block cost as low as 88 stamina. That low of a cost combined with Helping Hand, Constitution and Synergies gives really good sustain, you will always be able to block when needed. I also have my Champion points set so that I get the some good passives, such as the Tactician Passive in the Atronach tree, which when combined with Major Evasion can help with off balance up time.

Before I go onto my skills I will like that add and some somethings that I have not shown yet that effect my stats. First off, this is shown with my Hardened Armor activated, so my Major Ward and Resolve are active. My Drink is also active which is Orzorga's Red Frothgar, it gives 5000 Health and 457 magicka recovery, a solid and underrated food/drink in my opinion.


This is my front bar that I spend most of my time on, got everything I need to tank almost anything, I supplement it well with my back bar, to quickly list my skills on the front bar:

• Igneous Shield
• Pierce Armor
• Heroic Slash
• Hardened Armor
• Absorb Magic
• Aggressive Horn

This my first back bar, note that many of these skills are what most people call flex skills, skills you can swap out depending on the situations, for example Unrelenting grip is useless on a boss fight with no adds or unchainable adds. To again list them all:

• Unrelenting Grip
• Inner Beast
• Choking Talons
• Echoing Vigor
• Absorb Magic
• Replenishing Barrier

And lastly, my most common back bar during boss fights without adds, adding the Elude to help out with Off balance as we noted earlier in the thread. And of course here is the list:

• Elude
• Inner Beast
• Choking Talons
• Echoing Vigor
• Absorb Magic
• Replenishing Barrier

So in short, my set ups are based on helping with buff and debuffs as well as Crowd Controlling as much as possible. Now some of you might as about my back bar ultimate, this is mostly never used but however having it slotted on my back bar gives me 10% extra magicka recovery while on that bar cause of the Magicka Aid passive in the Alliance War Support skill line, this is even stronger if you off tank in Maw or something and use Guard as well, gives 10% per Support skill, so 20% with the ultimate and Guard.

Now if you guys want more info about my set up feel free to ask, I tried my best to not just show my build but to explain it as well, but didn't really know what to say about the skill choices as much as the gear choices. So if you want to know more about it or have critique then by all means comment below. One should do more than just show of the builds, one should explain why the choices were made and how things work around it. I hope I did that well, also hope you like my build, first one in a long time that I have posted.

EDIT: Right after I posted it I remembered this.... I know I am not a Vampire but I highly recommend that you are, only reason I am not while I am making this is cause I take it off every now and then cause I get sick of looking at the skins or the vampire forms. The added magicka recovery and mitigation is really helpful, as long as you can stand the vampire form or the skins you should definitely be a vampire.

As well I forgot to add, I am not a Dunmer for min maxing reasons, its cause I like Dunmers, the race you should pick if you want to min max this build is Argonian or Imperial, if I had to pick a #3 and #4 it would be Redguards and the Nords.

Liofa

FIRST !

Looks great ! I have the same setup (Ebon/Torugs) but with some tweaks to sustaining and gameplay . Few things I want to ask and suggest .

1- Barrier on front bar would be much effective since you said ''This is my front bar that I spend most of my time on'' . Obviously , you don't need it with that much recovery but still , would increase it even higher , why not ?

2- I found out that the best way to apply Crusher is using a destruction staff . When you cast it and switch to front bar , your front bar weapon enchantment procs even if you don't attack with it . I just use Blockade and switch to my front bar where I have 5 Torug's . All enchantment boosts are applied to Crusher . You can keep 100% Crusher reliably with just keeping Blockade up . Works amazing with only one downside , if there is an add between you and boss (very unlikely but still) that add will get the Crusher proc on itself . I am completely sure you can easily keep it up without sustain issues and get easier uptime on Crusher without timing your skills .

3- About the Off-Balance , I really like the idea of running Evasion for Tactician proc . I use Last Stand passive instead and put rest in Blessed for heals . Both seems to be proccing decent amount of time from what I tested but Tactician costs a lot of Stamina , whether you proc it with Roll Dodge or Evasion . Do you think it is really worth it ? Well , we will be able to get both in couple patches so I guess it will be fine soon ^^

4- About potions . I guess you run the tri-stat one for magicka recovery and stamina return . I started to use Speed + Lingering Health ones . I must say , not depending on speed buff while getting extra heals is far better than I expected it to be . I used to run Trash Stamina ones so my stamina sustain took a a hit though . But being able to run in front and taunting things earlier seems to be worth it . I want to try Stamina + Speed + Immovable some time . That should give me a lot more sustain . Did you try other potions like these ?

5- About Absorb Magic , you think you really need it ? I mean , it gets diminished with all those other block cost passives . It also gives damage mitigation but again , you have a lot of that already . You could use something like Structed Entropy to get your Health higher or Green Dragon Blood for emergency burst heal and Minor Vitality . I think Absorb Magic is useful while fighting Rakkhat and not much else in any other place . Just checked , it will increase your block cost to 95-96 if you don't use it . That's less than 10 stamina for each block . I don't think it is worth it to be honest . Especially on both bars .

6- About red CP . I noticed most times when I die , it is because of some unlucky burst . So I put lots of points into Ironclad . I have 66 Ironclad and 49 on Hardy/Elemental Defender each . Rest goes into Thick Skinned , think I have 56 there . I am thinking about lowering my Thick Skinned and getting even more from those two . Seeing that high amount of Quick Recovery surprised me to be honest . Is that because you have Vigor ?

I started to use Lord Warden on fights where my teammates get a lot of damage . The range is not as small as a Nord Shield anymore thankfully ^^ The range is amazing now , it even covers range DDs sometimes ! Since they don't have lots of mitigation , it actually does make a difference . Glad you mentioned it to be a good choice .

For last comment , I agree with everything you said about Alkosh . I would use it without a second thought if synergies were reliable . It is a big disappointment sadly Hope devs do something about it .

Thanks for this guide , amazing work . Cheers

Morgul667

Classic but nice

paulsimonps

Liofa wrote: »

FIRST !

Looks great ! I have the same setup (Ebon/Torugs) but with some tweaks to sustaining and gameplay . Few things I want to ask and suggest .

1- Barrier on front bar would be much effective since you said ''This is my front bar that I spend most of my time on'' . Obviously , you don't need it with that much recovery but still , would increase it even higher , why not ?

2- I found out that the best way to apply Crusher is using a destruction staff . When you cast it and switch to front bar , your front bar weapon enchantment procs even if you don't attack with it . I just use Blockade and switch to my front bar where I have 5 Torug's . All enchantment boosts are applied to Crusher . You can keep 100% Crusher reliably with just keeping Blockade up . Works amazing with only one downside , if there is an add between you and boss (very unlikely but still) that add will get the Crusher proc on itself . I am completely sure you can easily keep it up without sustain issues and get easier uptime on Crusher without timing your skills .

3- About the Off-Balance , I really like the idea of running Evasion for Tactician proc . I use Last Stand passive instead and put rest in Blessed for heals . Both seems to be proccing decent amount of time from what I tested but Tactician costs a lot of Stamina , whether you proc it with Roll Dodge or Evasion . Do you think it is really worth it ? Well , we will be able to get both in couple patches so I guess it will be fine soon ^^

4- About potions . I guess you run the tri-stat one for magicka recovery and stamina return . I started to use Speed + Lingering Health ones . I must say , not depending on speed buff while getting extra heals is far better than I expected it to be . I used to run Trash Stamina ones so my stamina sustain took a a hit though . But being able to run in front and taunting things earlier seems to be worth it . I want to try Stamina + Speed + Immovable some time . That should give me a lot more sustain . Did you try other potions like these ?

5- About Absorb Magic , you think you really need it ? I mean , it gets diminished with all those other block cost passives . It also gives damage mitigation but again , you have a lot of that already . You could use something like Structed Entropy to get your Health higher or Green Dragon Blood for emergency burst heal and Minor Vitality . I think Absorb Magic is useful while fighting Rakkhat and not much else in any other place . Just checked , it will increase your block cost to 95-96 if you don't use it . That's less than 10 stamina for each block . I don't think it is worth it to be honest . Especially on both bars .

6- About red CP . I noticed most times when I die , it is because of some unlucky burst . So I put lots of points into Ironclad . I have 66 Ironclad and 49 on Hardy/Elemental Defender each . Rest goes into Thick Skinned , think I have 56 there . I am thinking about lowering my Thick Skinned and getting even more from those two . Seeing that high amount of Quick Recovery surprised me to be honest . Is that because you have Vigor ?

I started to use Lord Warden on fights where my teammates get a lot of damage . The range is not as small as a Nord Shield anymore thankfully ^^ The range is amazing now , it even covers range DDs sometimes ! Since they don't have lots of mitigation , it actually does make a difference . Glad you mentioned it to be a good choice .

For last comment , I agree with everything you said about Alkosh . I would use it without a second thought if synergies were reliable . It is a big disappointment sadly Hope devs do something about it .

Thanks for this guide , amazing work . Cheers

@Liofa
First, thanks for the feedback, most likely gonna make some tweaks to this and update it, gotten feedback from other fronts too.

1. I used to have it on front bar and Warhorn on back bar, but I felt that having to bar swap for Warhorn was sometimes dangerous, would be on a fight like the warrior where you can't bar swap all too much and then I would have to do a Horn and if I had to bar swap for it I would either be late with it or possible die cause of bad swap. And really as you said the high regen I already have is still good, so I use it on my back bar so that when I use many of my CCs I get more time on those, so more for places where they can be used, which are few in trials but of course extremely many in Dungeons.

2. So you Tank with back bar Frost staff? Not sure my style would fit it, also since Pierce Armor and Heroic Slash as well as my heavy attack proc it I have good up time on it. I'm also learning myself more and more when I can drop block on certain Trial bosses. Also do you mean that if you have Torug's on both weapons and you do Wall of Element on back bar and swap it will still proc it off that ability even though you swap bar? Seems like a bug considering their latest change to enchantment procs with HotR, or am I missing something?

3. I'm starting to think I probably should swap to last stand, it was a experiment if nothing else, and yea Evasion is kind of expensive but I was doing a vHoF training run today and had great up time on it on first 2 bosses and still sustained quite well. I like the added survivability of Major Evasion too, on a fight like the Warrior and his Channeled Sweeps it can help a lot.

4. I am running trash stam pots However I am gonna stop being a cheap ass and get to using Tri pots, I would love to do Lingering, health and Stamina but that ain't a thing. Even just Lingering and Stamina doesn't work.... But I should get off my ass and start using Tri pots, the 20% increase to magicka recovery as well as more resources gained from all 3 stats is too good to give up, and now that I am back from taking a break from raiding I should start making em. The magicka recovery would boost my back bar recovery from 1760 to 2053, and that's still without vampire which would bump it up with the trip pots to 2200. That's a lot of magicka recovery for a tank. Off to make pots.....

5. I will try taking it off my back bar at least, see how it goes, and its 95 stamina without it, again another instance where the formula is off by a bit cause of the way the game calculates it, no decimals. I will make Green Dragon Blood a permanent part of my skills with it if it works out well, which it probably will, which makes me wonder what else I can use on my flex spots when chains and talons are not needed.

6. I use a lot into quick recovery to get more out of my heals, but you might be right, I'll try flipping some around, after all with more mitigation I have less need for heals. And with the change to keep Dragon Blood in my rotation Minor Vitality will keep some of that healing received.

And yea, Warden is a great set to use, plenty of fights where its useful, and of course some where it is not. As well, would use Alkosh too if they tweaked/fixed synergies. They don't even have to do all that much, the biggest thing, absolute biggest, make all of those that are in range see the synergy, all that once. At the moment only one person at a time can see the prompt, the person closest to the center of the point of origin. Which makes it really hard to pick them up. Changing that would benefit everyone.

Again, will make the tweaks tomorrow and see how it goes. Thanks.

Liofa

@paulsimonps

I have a charged Lightning Staff on back bar (4 piece Torug's on back bar) with a Shock enchant on it and my Torug's become 5 piece when I switch to 1h/s . When they changed the bug where your back bar enchant procced when you used blockade and switched to front bar . Now , it still procs an enchant but it is your front bar enchant .

So , when I put my Blockade down , it will proc the Shock enchant which will have around 88% chance to proc Concussion . After that , I bar swap and my Blockade starts proccing my front bar enchant which is a Torug+Infused buffed Crusher . It sounds like a bug but also doesn't . The change says ''Your skills will only proc the enchantment of the weapon you are holding'' or something similar . I can't be sure if this is intended or not to be honest ^^ I mean , my skill indeed procs the enchantment of weapon I am holding . Just because I cast my skill from back bar , would it mean it is bugged ? Need confirmation from ZOS ^^

I highly recommend you try this , it becomes much easier to play and no need to track buffs and such for Crusher uptime . Just put your Blockade down and it is done ^^

Curragraigue

Interesting build thanks for sharing. Why haven't you gone light and medium on belt (Torug's swap for your current Ebon) and shoulders for the Undaunted stats boost? Also if you are stacking Mag regen/reduction wouldn't a Breton be a good racial choice?

Asardes

I've found Vigor to be really draining on my resources since the Morrowind changes (block tick length decrease, skill cost increase, no more stamina cost decrease from CP) so I only relied on GDB for self heals especially because it's a burst heal and you can fully boost it with the major mending from ingenous shield. I could get it as high as 45% of missing health that way. As for the range taunt I was already using the other morph since it consumes magicka; I am really keen on saving stamina as much as possible. Overall though I will be mostly running the same build when I return to group content.

paulsimonps

Asardes wrote: »

I've found Vigor to be really draining on my resources since the Morrowind changes (block tick length decrease, skill cost increase, no more stamina cost decrease from CP) so I only relied on GDB for self heals especially because it's a burst heal and you can fully boost it with the major mending from ingenous shield. I could get it as high as 45% of missing health that way. As for the range taunt I was already using the other morph since it consumes magicka; I am really keen on saving stamina as much as possible. Overall though I will be mostly running the same build when I return to group content.

I don't use the vigor all that often, mostly to help out in times when my team is taking a lot of damage and even the slightest bit extra helps. Warrior Star Fall, Storm Atro room wide lightning, Mage burn, Serpent Poison and other such things, I don't spam it and I don't keep it up all the time. Also good to have in 4 man when healers can be meh, or if you are like me love to pull huge trash pulls and you need to help with the healing cause of that.

I like the stamina range taunt cause I usually keep my stamina really high for safety and when I am in situations where I need to use a lot of my magicka skills I don't want to be in a situations where I can't do multiple range taunts cause I just cast my buffs or CCs. Either works really.

paulsimonps

Curragraigue wrote: »

Interesting build thanks for sharing. Why haven't you gone light and medium on belt (Torug's swap for your current Ebon) and shoulders for the Undaunted stats boost? Also if you are stacking Mag regen/reduction wouldn't a Breton be a good racial choice?

I wouldn't want to lose out on anymore Health and Stamina then I already am being a Dunmer by going Breton, you lose 6% stamina and only gain 1% magicka. You would have to use your health to compensate and the gain wouldn't be worth it in my opinion. Argonians Potion passive plus their Health and healing done and received gives them amazing sustain and resources, its why I would choose them if I wanted to min max my race, but for me the look and feel is more important so I will stay dunmer.

Also I really prefer having the higher constitution even with the nerfs too it, I know it is always there and helps me when I am blocking a lot, it works really well with my low block cost. Its why I pick 7-0-0 over 5-1-1 or 5-2-0

Curragraigue

paulsimonps wrote: »

Curragraigue wrote: »

Interesting build thanks for sharing. Why haven't you gone light and medium on belt (Torug's swap for your current Ebon) and shoulders for the Undaunted stats boost? Also if you are stacking Mag regen/reduction wouldn't a Breton be a good racial choice?

I wouldn't want to lose out on anymore Health and Stamina then I already am being a Dunmer by going Breton, you lose 6% stamina and only gain 1% magicka. You would have to use your health to compensate and the gain wouldn't be worth it in my opinion. Argonians Potion passive plus their Health and healing done and received gives them amazing sustain and resources, its why I would choose them if I wanted to min max my race, but for me the look and feel is more important so I will stay dunmer.

Also I really prefer having the higher constitution even with the nerfs too it, I know it is always there and helps me when I am blocking a lot, it works really well with my low block cost. Its why I pick 7-0-0 over 5-1-1 or 5-2-0

Don't disagree re Argonian or Dunmer but given your build I would probably pick a Breton before a Nord was what I meant with that comment.

Re a 5-1-1 build you would get better returns on max stats for mag and stam, Mag recovery and Mag and Stam cost reduction. Stam recovery change may be slightly lower with perma blocking but not a huge amount, health recovery slightly lower and resistances slightly lower but given your current unbuffed resistances not likely to make a huge difference. Personally I would go 5-1-1 and swap belt for a light Torug's and shoulders for a medium monster. I guess always hard to do when you are comfortable with your setup but something to number crunch/consider.

paulsimonps

Curragraigue wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Curragraigue wrote: »

Interesting build thanks for sharing. Why haven't you gone light and medium on belt (Torug's swap for your current Ebon) and shoulders for the Undaunted stats boost? Also if you are stacking Mag regen/reduction wouldn't a Breton be a good racial choice?

I wouldn't want to lose out on anymore Health and Stamina then I already am being a Dunmer by going Breton, you lose 6% stamina and only gain 1% magicka. You would have to use your health to compensate and the gain wouldn't be worth it in my opinion. Argonians Potion passive plus their Health and healing done and received gives them amazing sustain and resources, its why I would choose them if I wanted to min max my race, but for me the look and feel is more important so I will stay dunmer.

Also I really prefer having the higher constitution even with the nerfs too it, I know it is always there and helps me when I am blocking a lot, it works really well with my low block cost. Its why I pick 7-0-0 over 5-1-1 or 5-2-0

Don't disagree re Argonian or Dunmer but given your build I would probably pick a Breton before a Nord was what I meant with that comment.

Re a 5-1-1 build you would get better returns on max stats for mag and stam, Mag recovery and Mag and Stam cost reduction. Stam recovery change may be slightly lower with perma blocking but not a huge amount, health recovery slightly lower and resistances slightly lower but given your current unbuffed resistances not likely to make a huge difference. Personally I would go 5-1-1 and swap belt for a light Torug's and shoulders for a medium monster. I guess always hard to do when you are comfortable with your setup but something to number crunch/consider.

Would still pick a Nord over a Breton, the Max HP and Max Stamina they have would be much preferred to the magicka and cost reduction. Sometimes its not about focusing on one thing only, but spreading out your stats to give a better all around performance, if all I was thinking about was my magicka and the magicka sustain I will lose out on other things. Max Health is important and so is my Max Stamina, Health for stronger shields and Dragon blood, as well as able to take more hits, and stamina for a larger base to start from when using my stamina abilities or blocking.

SquareSausage

Curragraigue wrote: »

Re a 5-1-1 build you would get better returns on max stats for mag and stam, Mag recovery and Mag and Stam cost reduction. Stam recovery change may be slightly lower with perma blocking but not a huge amount, health recovery slightly lower and resistances slightly lower but given your current unbuffed resistances not likely to make a huge difference. Personally I would go 5-1-1 and swap belt for a light Torug's and shoulders for a medium monster. I guess always hard to do when you are comfortable with your setup but something to number crunch/consider.

I imagine its 7 heavy to get better returns on constitution and keep resistances up?

paulsimonps

SquareSausage wrote: »

Curragraigue wrote: »

Re a 5-1-1 build you would get better returns on max stats for mag and stam, Mag recovery and Mag and Stam cost reduction. Stam recovery change may be slightly lower with perma blocking but not a huge amount, health recovery slightly lower and resistances slightly lower but given your current unbuffed resistances not likely to make a huge difference. Personally I would go 5-1-1 and swap belt for a light Torug's and shoulders for a medium monster. I guess always hard to do when you are comfortable with your setup but something to number crunch/consider.

I imagine its 7 heavy to get better returns on constitution and keep resistances up?

Yes, that is the reason for 7 heavy. I mean my physical resistance is low to begin with so wouldn't want it to go any lower than what it already is.

witchdoctor

@paulsimonps

Thanks for this. I'm still new(-sh) to ESO, and am making my way into tanking.

Threads like this, that give insight into what the player was intending, are very useful.

code65536

An alternative to @Liofa's suggestion of a back-bar destruction staff to use blockade to proc your front-bar enchant is to use back-bar dual-wield and use blade cloak to proc your front-bar enchant. It effectively does the same thing, except you are able to maintain both 5p bonuses on both bars, and the mitigation from blade cloak is very useful for a tank.

paulsimonps

code65536 wrote: »

An alternative to @Liofa's suggestion of a back-bar destruction staff to use blockade to proc your front-bar enchant is to use back-bar dual-wield and use blade cloak to proc your front-bar enchant. It effectively does the same thing, except you are able to maintain both 5p bonuses on both bars, and the mitigation from blade cloak is very useful for a tank.

@code65536
I might actually give that a shot, that sounds very promising. I would lose a bit of stamina on my back bar but I think I will be able to manage. I wonder do you use that on the 2nd boss in vHoF? Thinking the quick cloak morph would be very useful in tanking the spinning centurions. Could do this in fights where I don't need Chains or Talons on my back bar. This would probably help me a lot on first boss of vHoF too, sometimes I am a bit too slow out of those lighting AoEs. Put a bit more points into Thick skin and so since that is a DoT AoE I should be able to take them a lot better with that combo.

Liofa

code65536 wrote: »

An alternative to @Liofa's suggestion of a back-bar destruction staff to use blockade to proc your front-bar enchant is to use back-bar dual-wield and use blade cloak to proc your front-bar enchant. It effectively does the same thing, except you are able to maintain both 5p bonuses on both bars, and the mitigation from blade cloak is very useful for a tank.

@code65536

Yeah , I already tried that . Sadly , it doesn't work as well as it sounds . I tried to make it work a lot to get that sweet AOE damage reduction but just didn't happen . It is very unreliable because it ticks every 3 seconds . When we take the Torug/Infused Crusher cooldown (3.5 seconds) , you can see that even if first hit applies the Crusher , second won't . Third one will apply but there will be a 1 second downtime . Even if this was happening all the time , I would be ok with it but sometimes , it just doesn't even apply at all . I had some tests where I cast Cloak and enchants are not going off . Something is very wrong with Blade Cloak and enchants I used the in-game debuff tracker , Srendarr shows Crusher but it actually isn't there . Here is a video showing it and this is how an average test looks like . I had better and worse , this is one of the tests I could call decent . As you see in the video , I am literally in dummy's face and Crusher cooldown should be already over but it is not proccing . I have no idea why

Dual Wielding with Blade Cloak is the safer route for tank since it gives a lot of damage mitigation but sadly nowhere near as reliable as Blockade . Blockade never fails to apply the enchant , always refreshes even before Crusher runs out . Also being able to apply Crusher from range can be very useful in a lot of situations . Some examples ;

AA = Storm Atro (while waiting in the circle) , Mage (just make sure axes are behind you and you are facing Mage)
SO = Mantikora (while spreading to avoid hole) , Serpent (while running from World Shaper)
HRC = Left Side Boss (Blockade on boss while holding dogs) , Warrior (when he jumps or while he is destroying statues)
MoL = First (while going to cleanse) , Second (switching sides/bosses) , Third (while he is switching pads and you must stand in the next pad , blockade reaches the previous one)
HoF = Second (whenever it teleports) , Third (helps when you can't target boss because of bug) , Fourth (apply to middle boss or adds while holding side bosses) , Last (when you get thrown back but still want to keep Crusher)

And the things you can do with Crushing Shock ... It is amazing on HoF obviously . Being able to interrupt from range on first and second boss . Especially second boss , when it teleports and start doing the channel attack right after ^^ Also in HRC , lots of Flame Shapers to interrupt .

I was running Quick Cloak in certain fights while on my ultigen tank when Morrowind came out . You basically get no damage from AOEs . It is very good for tankiness but again , not so good at applying Crusher

All these plus contribution to Off-Balance and Concussion uptime . Very hard to drop just to get 5-piece on back bar and damage reduction for me . I'll give Cloak an another try when they fix the enchantment proccing issue though .

paulsimonps

Liofa wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

An alternative to @Liofa's suggestion of a back-bar destruction staff to use blockade to proc your front-bar enchant is to use back-bar dual-wield and use blade cloak to proc your front-bar enchant. It effectively does the same thing, except you are able to maintain both 5p bonuses on both bars, and the mitigation from blade cloak is very useful for a tank.

@code65536

Yeah , I already tried that . Sadly , it doesn't work as well as it sounds . I tried to make it work a lot to get that sweet AOE damage reduction but just didn't happen . It is very unreliable because it ticks every 3 seconds . When we take the Torug/Infused Crusher cooldown (3.5 seconds) , you can see that even if first hit applies the Crusher , second won't . Third one will apply but there will be a 1 second downtime . Even if this was happening all the time , I would be ok with it but sometimes , it just doesn't even apply at all . I had some tests where I cast Cloak and enchants are not going off . Something is very wrong with Blade Cloak and enchants I used the in-game debuff tracker , Srendarr shows Crusher but it actually isn't there . Here is a video showing it and this is how an average test looks like . I had better and worse , this is one of the tests I could call decent . As you see in the video , I am literally in dummy's face and Crusher cooldown should be already over but it is not proccing . I have no idea why

Dual Wielding with Blade Cloak is the safer route for tank since it gives a lot of damage mitigation but sadly nowhere near as reliable as Blockade . Blockade never fails to apply the enchant , always refreshes even before Crusher runs out . Also being able to apply Crusher from range can be very useful in a lot of situations . Some examples ;

AA = Storm Atro (while waiting in the circle) , Mage (just make sure axes are behind you and you are facing Mage)
SO = Mantikora (while spreading to avoid hole) , Serpent (while running from World Shaper)
HRC = Left Side Boss (Blockade on boss while holding dogs) , Warrior (when he jumps or while he is destroying statues)
MoL = First (while going to cleanse) , Second (switching sides/bosses) , Third (while he is switching pads and you must stand in the next pad , blockade reaches the previous one)
HoF = Second (whenever it teleports) , Third (helps when you can't target boss because of bug) , Fourth (apply to middle boss or adds while holding side bosses) , Last (when you get thrown back but still want to keep Crusher)

And the things you can do with Crushing Shock ... It is amazing on HoF obviously . Being able to interrupt from range on first and second boss . Especially second boss , when it teleports and start doing the channel attack right after ^^ Also in HRC , lots of Flame Shapers to interrupt .

I was running Quick Cloak in certain fights while on my ultigen tank when Morrowind came out . You basically get no damage from AOEs . It is very good for tankiness but again , not so good at applying Crusher

All these plus contribution to Off-Balance and Concussion uptime . Very hard to drop just to get 5-piece on back bar and damage reduction for me . I'll give Cloak an another try when they fix the enchantment proccing issue though .

So Infused Shock Enchanted Lightning Staff on back bar? I will give both options a try, if I can squeeze in the skill points. This toon is my main and also my crafter. Got all PvE Related skill points and a decent amount of PvE skill points but I am still running short a lot. And I am not sure I will always have room on the bar for both Wall of Elements and Crushing Shock.

Liofa

paulsimonps wrote: »

Liofa wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

An alternative to @Liofa's suggestion of a back-bar destruction staff to use blockade to proc your front-bar enchant is to use back-bar dual-wield and use blade cloak to proc your front-bar enchant. It effectively does the same thing, except you are able to maintain both 5p bonuses on both bars, and the mitigation from blade cloak is very useful for a tank.

@code65536

Yeah , I already tried that . Sadly , it doesn't work as well as it sounds . I tried to make it work a lot to get that sweet AOE damage reduction but just didn't happen . It is very unreliable because it ticks every 3 seconds . When we take the Torug/Infused Crusher cooldown (3.5 seconds) , you can see that even if first hit applies the Crusher , second won't . Third one will apply but there will be a 1 second downtime . Even if this was happening all the time , I would be ok with it but sometimes , it just doesn't even apply at all . I had some tests where I cast Cloak and enchants are not going off . Something is very wrong with Blade Cloak and enchants I used the in-game debuff tracker , Srendarr shows Crusher but it actually isn't there . Here is a video showing it and this is how an average test looks like . I had better and worse , this is one of the tests I could call decent . As you see in the video , I am literally in dummy's face and Crusher cooldown should be already over but it is not proccing . I have no idea why

Dual Wielding with Blade Cloak is the safer route for tank since it gives a lot of damage mitigation but sadly nowhere near as reliable as Blockade . Blockade never fails to apply the enchant , always refreshes even before Crusher runs out . Also being able to apply Crusher from range can be very useful in a lot of situations . Some examples ;

AA = Storm Atro (while waiting in the circle) , Mage (just make sure axes are behind you and you are facing Mage)
SO = Mantikora (while spreading to avoid hole) , Serpent (while running from World Shaper)
HRC = Left Side Boss (Blockade on boss while holding dogs) , Warrior (when he jumps or while he is destroying statues)
MoL = First (while going to cleanse) , Second (switching sides/bosses) , Third (while he is switching pads and you must stand in the next pad , blockade reaches the previous one)
HoF = Second (whenever it teleports) , Third (helps when you can't target boss because of bug) , Fourth (apply to middle boss or adds while holding side bosses) , Last (when you get thrown back but still want to keep Crusher)

And the things you can do with Crushing Shock ... It is amazing on HoF obviously . Being able to interrupt from range on first and second boss . Especially second boss , when it teleports and start doing the channel attack right after ^^ Also in HRC , lots of Flame Shapers to interrupt .

I was running Quick Cloak in certain fights while on my ultigen tank when Morrowind came out . You basically get no damage from AOEs . It is very good for tankiness but again , not so good at applying Crusher

All these plus contribution to Off-Balance and Concussion uptime . Very hard to drop just to get 5-piece on back bar and damage reduction for me . I'll give Cloak an another try when they fix the enchantment proccing issue though .

So Infused Shock Enchanted Lightning Staff on back bar? I will give both options a try, if I can squeeze in the skill points. This toon is my main and also my crafter. Got all PvE Related skill points and a decent amount of PvE skill points but I am still running short a lot. And I am not sure I will always have room on the bar for both Wall of Elements and Crushing Shock.

Charged . When you put down Blockade , it is almost guaranteed Concussion proc . Don't forget to take the third Destro passive .

paulsimonps

Liofa wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Liofa wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

An alternative to @Liofa's suggestion of a back-bar destruction staff to use blockade to proc your front-bar enchant is to use back-bar dual-wield and use blade cloak to proc your front-bar enchant. It effectively does the same thing, except you are able to maintain both 5p bonuses on both bars, and the mitigation from blade cloak is very useful for a tank.

@code65536

Yeah , I already tried that . Sadly , it doesn't work as well as it sounds . I tried to make it work a lot to get that sweet AOE damage reduction but just didn't happen . It is very unreliable because it ticks every 3 seconds . When we take the Torug/Infused Crusher cooldown (3.5 seconds) , you can see that even if first hit applies the Crusher , second won't . Third one will apply but there will be a 1 second downtime . Even if this was happening all the time , I would be ok with it but sometimes , it just doesn't even apply at all . I had some tests where I cast Cloak and enchants are not going off . Something is very wrong with Blade Cloak and enchants I used the in-game debuff tracker , Srendarr shows Crusher but it actually isn't there . Here is a video showing it and this is how an average test looks like . I had better and worse , this is one of the tests I could call decent . As you see in the video , I am literally in dummy's face and Crusher cooldown should be already over but it is not proccing . I have no idea why

Dual Wielding with Blade Cloak is the safer route for tank since it gives a lot of damage mitigation but sadly nowhere near as reliable as Blockade . Blockade never fails to apply the enchant , always refreshes even before Crusher runs out . Also being able to apply Crusher from range can be very useful in a lot of situations . Some examples ;

AA = Storm Atro (while waiting in the circle) , Mage (just make sure axes are behind you and you are facing Mage)
SO = Mantikora (while spreading to avoid hole) , Serpent (while running from World Shaper)
HRC = Left Side Boss (Blockade on boss while holding dogs) , Warrior (when he jumps or while he is destroying statues)
MoL = First (while going to cleanse) , Second (switching sides/bosses) , Third (while he is switching pads and you must stand in the next pad , blockade reaches the previous one)
HoF = Second (whenever it teleports) , Third (helps when you can't target boss because of bug) , Fourth (apply to middle boss or adds while holding side bosses) , Last (when you get thrown back but still want to keep Crusher)

And the things you can do with Crushing Shock ... It is amazing on HoF obviously . Being able to interrupt from range on first and second boss . Especially second boss , when it teleports and start doing the channel attack right after ^^ Also in HRC , lots of Flame Shapers to interrupt .

I was running Quick Cloak in certain fights while on my ultigen tank when Morrowind came out . You basically get no damage from AOEs . It is very good for tankiness but again , not so good at applying Crusher

All these plus contribution to Off-Balance and Concussion uptime . Very hard to drop just to get 5-piece on back bar and damage reduction for me . I'll give Cloak an another try when they fix the enchantment proccing issue though .

So Infused Shock Enchanted Lightning Staff on back bar? I will give both options a try, if I can squeeze in the skill points. This toon is my main and also my crafter. Got all PvE Related skill points and a decent amount of PvE skill points but I am still running short a lot. And I am not sure I will always have room on the bar for both Wall of Elements and Crushing Shock.

Charged . When you put down Blockade , it is almost guaranteed Concussion proc . Don't forget to take the third Destro passive .

oh yea derp charged ofc, was thinking wrong.

kylewwefan

Interesting to see build from the trusted tank expert. Looks Sturdy!

If you ran magic recovery enchants, could get almost 3K buffed.

paulsimonps

kylewwefan wrote: »

Interesting to see build from the trusted tank expert. Looks Sturdy!

If you ran magic recovery enchants, could get almost 3K buffed.

yup but without those block cost reduction glyphs you will not be able to block for very long. Those glyphs has a lot of weight in the formula for how much your block cost is.

kylewwefan

Don't hurt my head with the math. All that sturdy gear and CP has got to reduce costs a lot.

code65536

Liofa wrote: »

And the things you can do with Crushing Shock ... It is amazing on HoF obviously

Yep. For the initial trash, the first two bosses, and the trash between the third and fourth bosses, I back-bar a destruction staff primarily for the range-interrupt on the Arquebuses, first boss spheres, and second main boss after he teleports.

But on other fights, that mitigation from Blade Cloak is really nice, like helping improve survivability when the Assembly General punches you while you are also holding a sorc facsimilie...

paulsimonps

@code65536

I just made weapons for both back bar options, wondering though what would you use as enchantment on your dual wield bar? Normally I just go Crusher front and weakening back bar, but I got an extra weapon damage slot. Thinking Absorb Stamina for if I get the chance to do a heavy attack on back bar, now that off hand only procs of light and heavy attack and not abilities.

Liofa

paulsimonps wrote: »

@code65536

I just made weapons for both back bar options, wondering though what would you use as enchantment on your dual wield bar? Normally I just go Crusher front and weakening back bar, but I got an extra weapon damage slot. Thinking Absorb Stamina for if I get the chance to do a heavy attack on back bar, now that off hand only procs of light and heavy attack and not abilities.

I think Shock makes most sense since it applies Concussion .

code65536

Liofa wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

@code65536

I just made weapons for both back bar options, wondering though what would you use as enchantment on your dual wield bar? Normally I just go Crusher front and weakening back bar, but I got an extra weapon damage slot. Thinking Absorb Stamina for if I get the chance to do a heavy attack on back bar, now that off hand only procs of light and heavy attack and not abilities.

I think Shock makes most sense since it applies Concussion .

I agree. I think in terms of group utility, the three strongest enchants that support roles can run are Crusher, Weakening, and Shock. (If we ever shift back to the Fire Blockade DPS meta of the Homestead era, then the Burning effect from a Fire enchant would be nice, too.)

usmcjdking

Why Elude over Shuffle? You have no medium armor which adds like...o second to the duration IIRC? Shuffle can still purge snares/roots but won't give you snare immunity.

paulsimonps

usmcjdking wrote: »

Why Elude over Shuffle? You have no medium armor which adds like...o second to the duration IIRC? Shuffle can still purge snares/roots but won't give you snare immunity.

Are you sure it still removes snares? The tooltip is written in such a way it seems like it does require at least one piece of medium armor for it to remove anything. Either way, I use a medium armor set up with Elude when I solo stuff and since I don't have any medium armor pieces while tanking it really doesn't matter. And I can't really think of any time when I would have a bunch of snares I would HAVE to get ride of, I mean if I was so strapped for removing them I would have done something about that by now.

paulsimonps

@Liofa

"Concentrated Force (Perfected)
Force Shock always applies the Burning, Concussion, and Chilled status effects. This effect can occur once every 4 seconds per enemy."

Will you be using this on your back bar lighting staff? Make you instantly apply Concussion with Crushing Shock. For my set up I would also lose the 4th piece of Torug's Pact but since that is only a bit of spell resistance I think that would be fine. Not yet tested the Destro staff back bar variation but with this I might be more inclined to do so.

Also to anyone reading this, just remembered one of the reason I use Tactician to help with off balance, some bosses are immune to Concussion, so off balance up times suffer on those few bosses. Tactician CP passive plus Major Evasion can help with that a lot.

Liofa

paulsimonps wrote: »

@Liofa

"Concentrated Force (Perfected)
Force Shock always applies the Burning, Concussion, and Chilled status effects. This effect can occur once every 4 seconds per enemy."

Will you be using this on your back bar lighting staff? Make you instantly apply Concussion with Crushing Shock. For my set up I would also lose the 4th piece of Torug's Pact but since that is only a bit of spell resistance I think that would be fine. Not yet tested the Destro staff back bar variation but with this I might be more inclined to do so.

Also to anyone reading this, just remembered one of the reason I use Tactician to help with off balance, some bosses are immune to Concussion, so off balance up times suffer on those few bosses. Tactician CP passive plus Major Evasion can help with that a lot.

Hmmm , I don't think I will . There is just not enough space . And I will have to go to my back bar and use Crushing Shock every 4 seconds which is not realistic at all .

I probably will continue to use a Lightning Staff for applying Crusher reliably though . It is just too good to give up . But definitely sure that I won't be using Charged anymore . Concussion will be so easily 100% with only 1 decent sorcerer in group . Rest will be only about Off-Balance uptime which just requires Blockades . I think I will go with Infused Weakening . That should be best I guess , for next patch . Still , too many things to test . Maelstrom 1h/s will be BiS for self-sustain without a doubt if it goes live like this . Can use it on back bar and Torug's front . I'll test more and more , we need to figure out what will be the DD meta as well in order to make a setup that will cover the lack of penetration properly . They will have 10 more points next patch so ... Nothing is certain yet , surely many changes will be made to new sets and weapons . I'll share my findings as I test