This event is a fail

SmellyUnlimited

tinythinker wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

First mistake is calling it a pvp event when it clearly promotes pve.

Yeah, if they did it like the Midyear event maybe they could have said "Kill 50 players in the arena for XXX prizes", etc. Mostly PvP during this event is one large group crushing a somewhat smaller group to take over a district flag or the center of the sewers, then having that group get smashed by another one. I have lasted 30 seconds as a weakly geared healer amid 15-20 players because they just spam one skill and get frustrated that it isn't like hitting a PvE mob. Technically that is PvP but it isn't the kind of PvP the OP seems to want.

This highlights how big a disparity there is between PvP and PvE. It requires entirely different gear, different skills, and a different play style. That's the biggest problem with the IC event; do you build for PvP or PvE? If there were more parity between the two, I think people would be more inclined to go to Cyrodil. But when you have professional PvP'ers that can singe-handedly wipe out 5 players, the schism just grows and grows because it just isn't any fun.

zyk

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

This highlights how big a disparity there is between PvP and PvE. It requires entirely different gear, different skills, and a different play style. That's the biggest problem with the IC event; do you build for PvP or PvE? If there were more parity between the two, I think people would be more inclined to go to Cyrodil. But when you have professional PvP'ers that can singe-handedly wipe out 5 players, the schism just grows and grows because it just isn't any fun.

There's no need to build for PVE in IC because the mobs are super easy anyway. Even when IC mobs were more challenging before they were nerfed, there wasn't a need for optimized PVE builds.

But yeah, this highlights a critical flaw -- if not *the* critical flaw -- in ESO PVP from the start. There's no mechanisms at all to segment casual/core/hardcore players. The end result is an experience that is not gratifying to all three types -- generally speaking, of course.

Azurya

and the event provesonce again that it is necessary to split the campaign-population from the IC-population

Thrymbauld

The entire zone and concept is poorly designed. Frankly, it should be scrapped and the guys responsible for it should be confined to circling space stations in EVE for the rest of eternity, that's where these folks belong.

It's a PvE zone---monsters, gear currency, quests, etc. PvP is enabled, don't get me wrong, but the zone is PvE.

How does this work out? The same rotten way it works out in every single terrible game that has PvP enabled in their PvE zones, especially enabled with a "take loot from killing players" type option. Large groups to avoid deaths or ganking to avoid fights, that's the PvP that happens. You don't gank actual combatants, they might fight back and take your loot. You don't run with a group too small or you'll die or be vulnerable to gankers.

There are two decades of game design that illustrate this pretty clearly. Very few games, and virtually no truly successful games, even bother introducing this type of nonsense anymore because they've watched the Everquest, WoW, and other games that give it trickle to a couple lightly populated servers with a handful of weirdos thinking they are gaming by a "code" or something and that's it.

It's not fun for PvPers that aren't in it for a gank. It's not fun for PvEers because they aren't in it to be ganked. In other words, it's not a fun game design.

And yes, as if that isn't enough, they tied the population to their actual, relevant dedicated PvP zone, because offering a terrible game experience just isn't enough when you can also hamper the experience of those not even participating.

At least it meant I got to buy PvP gear on the cheap, I guess.

Koensol

No. The players are a fail. Always these excuses of ZOS should do X to prevent X behavior, or ZOS should design it like X to prevent the possibility of an exploit of X. No, *** that! It's the players that are pathetic enough to always look for ways to exploit the system or ruin others fun. I'm by no means a white knight to ZOS, but this is a problem that finds its source in the mentality of the player.

tinythinker

zyk wrote: »

But yeah, this highlights a critical flaw -- if not *the* critical flaw -- in ESO PVP from the start. There's no mechanisms at all to segment casual/core/hardcore players. The end result is an experience that is not gratifying to all three types -- generally speaking, of course.

Yes that's a big issue, which they could work on by ranking play in the battlegrounds.

I like the concept of IC, but the incentives need to be there for regular play before special events will be of use. In Cyro, there is motivation for experienced players to run pug groups, to support new players, to help them adapt, etc. Cyro also has lots of PvE for those of us who enjoy both PvE and PvP, and Cyro has PvE players who go there just to get PvE achievements. But whatever you may say about the state of Cyro, it is waaaaay better off than IC.

The devs were giddy about a ganking wonderland, but I think we have enough data to show that 1) gankers will be around in any PvP-enabled zone and 2) Tel Var isn't a good enough lure to keep IC populated. I'm not saying make safe versions of IC or replace Tel Var, but, just that IC has to matter more.

If IC had an impact on the campaign in which it was located, that would help and be a great starting point for reviving it, and I can repost/share ideas for that, but that will be considered "unfair" by many players until IC becomes part of the base game no matter how many times it goes on sale.

gepe87

No! Got Skin and Augur Polymorph. Just bring a NB and you are safe on IC xD

Joy_Division

I'm not sure what people expected.

What exactly is your average ESO player to do in the IC? PvE quest with pro NB gankers stalking them? Take over district flags? Try to farm bosses they'll probably die to while again dodging enemy gankers?

I think what people expected is that these players would "git gud," walk around confidently around IC killing PvE mobs, and seeking out equitable 1v1 fights with similarly minded players on other factions. What % of the ESO population base do you think is good and experienced enough to successfully defend and defeat a ganker who know what they are doing? Most of the player base is now excluded, but now those brave souls have to deal with the roaming gangs of 8,9, 12 players who on the off-chance might ignore you in cyordiil or at least be too bothered to chase, but no way that's happening here because there is TV to gain. Now might as well get rid of all templars, DKs, Wardens, and any other spec with zero mobility or escape who might have tried soloing the IC districts. What exactly are people who are not "gud" and play a stay your ground build supposed to do in IC?

Nobody likes dying and it's bad enough in ESO where there is zero penalty and free, immediate respawn. Now throw in the no AvA point or objectives or anything to do expect farm the very TV they are going to lose and it's no wonder much of the ESO community ignores IC DLC and events like this bring in the zergs.

Drakkdjinn

1 million tel var and counting.

Master_Kas

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

1 million tel var and counting.

I'm also shortly above one million since event started. That will make alot of potions for PvPing so I can hardly call it a fail.

And there is actually fights in IC instead of it being a ghosttown. ^^

Agrippa_Invisus

Just another event that encourages a) avoiding a fight, b) zerging hard just in case you find a fight, and c) not being in Cyrodiil itself.

GJ ZOS.

Mureel

I just wanna get the skin in this event because it grates my cheese that I don't have it ;P

pzschrek

I think Shor has some pretty good pvp going on, at least it was when I was down there, all factions were there and lots of decent fights.

We went there because Xarxes is the EP farm server, and so many people were down there you couldn't get tel var because all the mobs and bosses were always dead.

NightbladeMechanics

Koensol wrote: »

No. The players are a fail. Always these excuses of ZOS should do X to prevent X behavior, or ZOS should design it like X to prevent the possibility of an exploit of X. No, *** that! It's the players that are pathetic enough to always look for ways to exploit the system or ruin others fun. I'm by no means a white knight to ZOS, but this is a problem that finds its source in the mentality of the player.

This is an idealistic way of looking at the situation. The fact is you cannot change human nature, only design your game to tame it and direct player behavior in positive ways. That is the responsibility of the devs.

Rickter

The incentive just wasnt there. Double Telvar, Double chance at skin and scamp (yeah right ) and Double key fragments is a joke.

we want:
better RftW
player housing rewards
achievements
titles
character cosmetic items
mounts,
pets,
dyes

does that seem like too much? it isnt. the framework/model was already there for Midyear Mayhem. That set a standard whether you liked it or not ZOS. you raised your own bar and then failed to meet it.

DeadlyRecluse

Rickter wrote: »

The incentive just wasnt there. Double Telvar, Double chance at skin and scamp (yeah right ) and Double key fragments is a joke.

we want:
better RftW
player housing rewards
achievements
titles
character cosmetic items
mounts,
pets,
dyes

does that seem like too much? it isnt. the framework/model was already there for Midyear Mayhem. That set a standard whether you liked it or not ZOS. you raised your own bar and then failed to meet it.

Eh, midyear mayhem was a holiday event, this was a throw-a-switch DLC anniversary event. I don't have a problem with pretty simple rewards compared to Midyear.

Beardimus

It's a great event, bit there are too many servers, and the getting booted from IC on logout is very frustrating.

Shame as it was my favourite event from last year

Rickter

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

Eh, midyear mayhem was a holiday event, this was a throw-a-switch DLC anniversary event. I don't have a problem with pretty simple rewards compared to Midyear.

I think given the stale slump this particular dlc has fallen into, they really should have done more. do you think the people that farm telvar really care about double tel var? do you think the people that dont farm telvar and avoided this dlc are going to care?

this is my point. not enough incentive. people who farm tel var already have a bunch of tel var. its business as usual for them. those that dont bother to farm tel var have little to no reason to start.

throw in MYM event incentives, and you'd have seen glorious epic tidal waves of players.

Subversus

Rickter wrote: »

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

Eh, midyear mayhem was a holiday event, this was a throw-a-switch DLC anniversary event. I don't have a problem with pretty simple rewards compared to Midyear.

I think given the stale slump this particular dlc has fallen into, they really should have done more. do you think the people that farm telvar really care about double tel var? do you think the people that dont farm telvar and avoided this dlc are going to care?

this is my point. not enough incentive. people who farm tel var already have a bunch of tel var. its business as usual for them. those that dont bother to farm tel var have little to no reason to start.

throw in MYM event incentives, and you'd have seen glorious epic tidal waves of players.

That's funny. People that farm telvars are out of the business for the duration of the events. Telvars are farmed alone or in a duo, and with every campaign possible being flooded with 50 man zergs chasing after every boss spawn it's literally impossible for the "people that usually farm telvars" to "farm telvars". So yeah.

gabriebe

What I don't get in all this is that IC will be even more empty than usual after the event because people are really overloaded with Tel Vars atm. I made 500k in about 5-6 days, and I have no idea how I'd spend it all.

Kartalin

gabriebe wrote: »

I have no idea how I'd spend it all.

Alchemy satchels.

DeadlyRecluse

Rickter wrote: »

I think given the stale slump this particular dlc has fallen into, they really should have done more. do you think the people that farm telvar really care about double tel var? do you think the people that dont farm telvar and avoided this dlc are going to care?

this is my point. not enough incentive. people who farm tel var already have a bunch of tel var. its business as usual for them. those that dont bother to farm tel var have little to no reason to start.

Every time I've gone into IC during the event, I've gotten consistent PvP in a variety of scales. That has not been the case in the past year outside of the event. Make of that what you will.

Rickter wrote: »

throw in MYM event incentives, and you'd have seen glorious epic tidal waves of players.

I don't think "glorious epic tidal waves" is exactly the goal, nor do I think you'd realistically see that with 7 campaigns we currently have open.

I'm not saying this is a perfect event, but for a DLC anniversary it seems fine.