Buff non dlc dungeons?

Ihatenightblades

At this point i find it very ironic that there are over 20 dungeons you can walk through on vet hard mode like nothing.

You can do it with 2 dps, 3 dps, 4 dps, doesnt matter dont need healer and tank you only need 1 IF that.

Since dlc dungeons came out ZoS has had the right idea in making dungeons actually challenging but unfortunately its 25 dungeons too late im afraid and the ONLY difficult/fun/challenging content in this game is VDSA VMA All vet trials on hard mode and 6 dlc dungeons.

There are 24 other dungeons in this game i know dungeons get boring repeating anyway so who really cares to buff them but atleast it makes the game make sense.

To me doesnt make sense to have 6 hard dungeons and 24 super easy do em with anybody dungeons. Anybody else agree or?

And i dont mean give them another 1.5 million health. Make red circles actually one shot like in dlc dungeons.

I can lay down in red circles in vaults of madness. Literally if i die in there i was being really dumb.

And to do a quickie review on recent dlc chapters etc im lovin it new dungeons are great new motifs great just need to make dungeons funner not just dlc ones.

#MakeDungeonsGreatAgain

ValkynSketha

Peoble are crying over BC II man, they can't *** block/dodge the daedroth fire cc, and you want zos to buff them!!, we had only *** 4, four FOUR, FoUr challenging dungeons in the game, cos/rom/wgt/icp, yet peoble were crying to nerf them and they did, and yet they still crying, i guess they *** want to only light attack there way through all of the games content. For *** sake man : (

Yakidafi

ValkynSketha wrote: »

Peoble are crying over BC II man, they can't *** block/dodge the daedroth fire cc, and you want zos to buff them!!, we had only *** 4, four FOUR, FoUr challenging dungeons in the game, cos/rom/wgt/icp, yet peoble were crying to nerf them and they did, and yet they still crying, i guess they *** want to only light attack there way through all of the games content. For *** sake man : (

Kena+elegant/gladiator bow build, Make puglyfe great again

Apherius

ValkynSketha wrote: »

Peoble are crying over BC II man, they can't *** block/dodge the daedroth fire cc, and you want zos to buff them!!, we had only *** 4, four FOUR, FoUr challenging dungeons in the game, cos/rom/wgt/icp, yet peoble were crying to nerf them and they did, and yet they still crying, i guess they *** want to only light attack there way through all of the games content. For *** sake man : (

unfortunaly they just apply what they learn in the VERY USEFULL TUTORIAL " light attack " " block " " heavy attack " .

Doctordarkspawn

"Walk through like they're nothing".

Sorry buddy, not everyone is on your level and we all gotta share.

Making difficult content fun with the current system? Difficult. It'd work if the system wasn't so PVP oriented, but it is what it is. If you want a comprehensive, challenging PVE content experience, you play something else, because this game was not built to support that.

That simple.

Apherius

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

"Walk through like they're nothing".

Sorry buddy, not everyone is on your level and we all gotta share.

Making difficult content fun with the current system? Difficult. It'd work if the system wasn't so PVP oriented, but it is what it is. If you want a comprehensive, challenging PVE content experience, you play something else, because this game was not built to support that.

That simple.

find me the line where zenimax said " our game is build ONLY to support light attack spammer " .

Doctordarkspawn

Apherius wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

"Walk through like they're nothing".

Sorry buddy, not everyone is on your level and we all gotta share.

Making difficult content fun with the current system? Difficult. It'd work if the system wasn't so PVP oriented, but it is what it is. If you want a comprehensive, challenging PVE content experience, you play something else, because this game was not built to support that.

That simple.

find me the line where zenimax said " our game is build ONLY to support light attack spammer " .

Never said that.

But, given the fact the game didn't even have repeatable PVE content outside of Craglorn until a good year into the games life it's obvious who this game, and this system, was built for. And given what balance changes are made for what audience (Read: Drastic gameplay balance that PVE protests, PVP cheers, every single patch) it's clear where the attention is.

This is a PVP game. Stop pretending otherwise. Zenimax certainly isn't anymore. Dont like it? Leave until it is.

Wrecking_Blow_Spam

Honestly who cares?
You want challenging content do vet trails.

Vet dungeons are in the right place, oh and if they're so easy then go pug them. Good luck.

Nobody wants to spend hours doing vet dungeons, especially pugs.

Wrecking_Blow_Spam

Go do COA2 with "anybody" (as in bad players) same goes for some of the other vet dungeons.
You're over exaggerating.

Blackbird_V

ValkynSketha wrote: »

Peoble are crying over BC II man, they can't *** block/dodge the daedroth fire cc, and you want zos to buff them!!, we had only *** 4, four FOUR, FoUr challenging dungeons in the game, cos/rom/wgt/icp, yet peoble were crying to nerf them and they did, and yet they still crying, i guess they *** want to only light attack there way through all of the games content. For *** sake man : (

I agree with you again, PvE has so much potential... However it seems since wrobel took over the game's being catered towards new players.. that *** die in banished cells.

Kräutersammler

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

At this point i find it very ironic that there are over 20 dungeons you can walk through on vet hard mode like nothing.

You can do it with 2 dps, 3 dps, 4 dps, doesnt matter dont need healer and tank you only need 1 IF that.

Well, perhaps "you" can do it. Perhaps you run these dungeons over and over and so it´s the same normal effect like in other games.

For me nad maybe at least one or two other players "veteran" ist still difficult.

If you´re getting bored - Im sure you play long enough to know how to nerf yourself, so that dungeons become a challenge for you again.

Apherius

Kräutersammler wrote: »

If you´re getting bored - Im sure you play long enough to know how to nerf yourself, so that dungeons become a challenge for you again.

ok let's copy past what i write everytime i see this.

Q: Why don't you run with pugs if you want " hard content " ?
A: I would love ... but everyone don't speak english, sometimes you fall with a " non-english group " who simply can't complete the dungeons cause they don't read the mechanics that you try to explain them , sometimes IT'S an english group ... but they also dont read what you write cause they think they are OP and can nuke the dungeon simply because they play a sorcerer ... lel . Of course this make the dungeon harder ... but instead of yell " YEAHHHHH " in group once the dungeon is complete ... you will just get a headache while they are leaving the dungeon 1 by 1 without say thank ... 80% of the time.

Q: Why don't you just put off your cps and gear ?
A: Simply because doing this increase "artificially "the difficulty of the dungeons ... and it's not fun when there still a part of your mind who know that in reality the dungeon is easy... And also because complete a dungeon should give the impression of a push through the limit ( limit = difficulty of the dungeon ) and not the reverse.

The_Protagonist

Yakidafi wrote: »

ValkynSketha wrote: »

Peoble are crying over BC II man, they can't *** block/dodge the daedroth fire cc, and you want zos to buff them!!, we had only *** 4, four FOUR, FoUr challenging dungeons in the game, cos/rom/wgt/icp, yet peoble were crying to nerf them and they did, and yet they still crying, i guess they *** want to only light attack there way through all of the games content. For *** sake man : (

Kena+elegant/gladiator bow build, Make puglyfe great again

Is that what noobs are rocking these days? Really had a good laugh at the sarcasm here LMAO!

Meld777

Does anyone still remember what Spindle 2 hard mode is about? Even if the party consists of four light-attacking CP10 pugs, they will just light attack their way through it and automatically do hard mode without knowing what the hard mode even is.

Answer to those that are curious: Very long time ago, when CP didn't exist, power creep wasn't as ridiculous as nowadays and 10k single target DPS was considered what 50k is considered today, and most pugs had 1 - 2k single target dps, the boss would sometimes heal himself by devouring the "innocents" on the sides (he still does the animation, but the effect is unnoticeable; you will outdps his healing just by punching him naked). Back then his healing would be higher than average DPS, thus prolonging the fight by a lot. Groups with low DPS couldn't kill him, as they weren't able to outdps his heals. They would have to kill the innocents to stop the boss from healing, thus, failing hard mode.

Dymence

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

This is a PVP game. Stop pretending otherwise. Zenimax certainly isn't anymore. Dont like it? Leave until it is.

We can tell from the overwhelming amount of PVP content that has been added to the game.

zaria

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

Honestly who cares?
You want challenging content do vet trails.

Vet dungeons are in the right place, oh and if they're so easy then go pug them. Good luck.

Nobody wants to spend hours doing vet dungeons, especially pugs.

This, the vet dungeons cover an wide range of difficulty, I say vCoA1 is easier than the IcP and WGT normal.
vet DLC on the other hand is challenging and not very pugable.

Kräutersammler

Apherius wrote: »

Kräutersammler wrote: »

If you´re getting bored - Im sure you play long enough to know how to nerf yourself, so that dungeons become a challenge for you again.

ok let's copy past what i write everytime i see this.

Seems like you´re bored of suggestions like mine as I´m bored about these "The game is to easy"-threads.

Eyesinthedrk

NNNNNNOOOOOOOOOoooooooooo.....

Now that key sets are dungeon only and BOP, this is a terrible idea.

A better idea would be to move the HM scroll to the beginning of the dungeon so it can make the whole dungeon hard mode. This way you can have your more difficult content without making a jewlery farm even more tedious than it already is.

Ihatenightblades

Eyesinthedrk wrote: »

NNNNNNOOOOOOOOOoooooooooo.....

Now that key sets are dungeon only and BOP, this is a terrible idea.

A better idea would be to move the HM scroll to the beginning of the dungeon so it can make the whole dungeon hard mode. This way you can have your more difficult content without making a jewlery farm even more tedious than it already is.

Not a bad idea actually

Ihatenightblades

Dymence wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

This is a PVP game. Stop pretending otherwise. Zenimax certainly isn't anymore. Dont like it? Leave until it is.

We can tell from the overwhelming amount of PVP content that has been added to the game.

I was about to say lol most patches that have balance changes are usually to make pvp more balanced but last 2 patches have been pve mainly.

Balanced weapon traits balanced mundus stones and balanced sets and almost balanced classes

We will get there soon

code65536

In general, I think the current difficulty is fine. The "old" dungeons provide a nice bridge of sorts between normal mode content and high-end vet content.

It would be nice for ZOS to clarify for newcomers that "Vet" Cradle is an entirely different difficulty when compared to "Vet" Spindle. But aside from that complaint, I think it's good that the content covers a wide spectrum of difficulty instead of everything homogenized to either extreme.

Do I like difficult content? Of course. And there is plenty of that to go around already.

That said, some of the old hard-mode challenges could use some re-balancing.

Meld777 wrote: »

Does anyone still remember what Spindle 2 hard mode is about? Even if the party consists of four light-attacking CP10 pugs, they will just light attack their way through it and automatically do hard mode without knowing what the hard mode even is.

Answer to those that are curious: Very long time ago, when CP didn't exist, power creep wasn't as ridiculous as nowadays and 10k single target DPS was considered what 50k is considered today, and most pugs had 1 - 2k single target dps, the boss would sometimes heal himself by devouring the "innocents" on the sides (he still does the animation, but the effect is unnoticeable; you will outdps his healing just by punching him naked). Back then his healing would be higher than average DPS, thus prolonging the fight by a lot. Groups with low DPS couldn't kill him, as they weren't able to outdps his heals. They would have to kill the innocents to stop the boss from healing, thus, failing hard mode.

Yep. Killing them was the solution if you could not out-DPS his healing. But his healing is so weak now that it's not a problem that even PUGs have to worry about. Similarly, the levers in Darkshade II are meant to cut short the poison phase, but the damage from the poison phase is so mild and the other phases are so annoying that the fight actually becomes harder if you pull the levers, because you're shortening the easiest boss phases. Or how about Fungal II? I remember the days when Vila's special attack was a serious healer check, and if your healer could not keep up, you had to hide under the shield. A couple of weeks ago, I was doing Fungal II in a random vet, and everyone else died (to black holes), and I soloed the boss with just Funnel Health to heal me through that damage.

Increasing the strength of the vampire heal, making the poison more punishing (and the other phases a bit less dangerous), and making Vila's special attack be a healer check that it used to be would make those Hard Mode challenges relevant again.

PurpleDrank

Apherius wrote: »

Q: Why don't you just put off your cps and gear ?
A: Simply because doing this increase "artificially "the difficulty of the dungeons ... and it's not fun when there still a part of your mind who know that in reality the dungeon is easy... And also because complete a dungeon should give the impression of a push through the limit ( limit = difficulty of the dungeon ) and not the reverse.

Not having a go at you, but this is an argument I don't understand. I have a few friends that I play with and when we get a bit bored we shake it up a bit and its great fun. So far we've tried:

* No CP runs.
* No Meta equipment runs. This was my favourite actually. You put together a set of equipment and can't use things like Julianos, Netch, Hundings, Necropotence etc. And all your gear has to be blue. Really cool to see what people come up with when they can't use the standard sets.
* "Character" runs. This was actually the most challenging. Everyone picked a classic rpg archetype (I think we had a fighter, cleric, ranger and thief from memory) and build only using skills that would make sense from an RP point. So the "fighter" didn't have any class skills because they seemed too much like magic for example.

For us its fun to find a way to try and make things work. I think part of the MMO experience needs to be taking the tools given to you and making your own fun, and not just relying on the developers to provide everything (which they can't do the way some people consume content).

Wifeaggro13

Apherius wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

"Walk through like they're nothing".

Sorry buddy, not everyone is on your level and we all gotta share.

Making difficult content fun with the current system? Difficult. It'd work if the system wasn't so PVP oriented, but it is what it is. If you want a comprehensive, challenging PVE content experience, you play something else, because this game was not built to support that.

That simple.

find me the line where zenimax said " our game is build ONLY to support light attack spammer " .

He pulls crap out of his rear regularly. Yet he listened to no podcasts dev intetviews nor pre launch articles.

Bryong9ub17_ESO

So you want none dlc dungeons to be more challenging?

Simple, only join PUGs. Boom. Problem solved.

disintegr8

I think vet dungeons offer the right 'progression' from some easier ones to the harder non DLC ones, then the DLC dungeons. As others have said, if you want a challenge, run pugs through them - sure sometimes you will get a good group, frequently you will not.

If I want to run any dungeons in a group of 4, I rely on group finder so avoid most vet dungeons for that reason. II have completed all non DLC vet dungeons numerous times in PUGs, most in hard mode in the old gold key days.

My experiences vary greatly - from finding people who are challenged by it and happy to have completed it, through to being called a scrub or told to get back to normal dungeons by elitists who don't think I should be there. All because I don't meet their standards; my DD's might not deal 30k DPS, or my tanks don't have 50+k health while doing 10k damage, or my healers can't keep 2 DDs with 11k health alive while also dealing damage. And guess what, non of my characters wear trial sets - oh the shame.

What nobody here has mentioned is the fact that the most challenging dungeons are all DLC, so not everyone can access them. This may be by the design of ZOS to encourage people to buy the DLC, or it could simply be that the non DLC dungeons have been nerfed so much over time that they seem easy to top level players.

Maybe the solution is to buff a couple of the non DLC dungeons, or introduce some new non DLC dungeons, that are close to the level of DLC dungeons. That way people who only have the base game can feel the pain - at least until the cries to nerf them again reach fever pitch.

OutLaw_Nynx

Don't use CP
Only use group finder
Wear broken armour

There you go. Quit whining. Not everyone is at your 1337 skill level.

SwimsWithMemes

@disintegr8 fine me one of those tanks to teach me! That sounds amazing.

I only get 45k health and 2k dps

Ihatenightblades

Bryong9ub17_ESO wrote: »

So you want none dlc dungeons to be more challenging?

Simple, only join PUGs. Boom. Problem solved.

How does that make the game more challenging? Whether my group members suck or not the game is easy mode for me how is that gonna change? Ya in maybe a few non dlc dungeons i might need a tank to hold boss but even any pug group will have a tank that atleast taunts.

So thats a pretty bad solution.

Best one i heard so far is read scroll in beginning of dungeon to make all boss mechanics more challenging.

MrBetadine

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

Bryong9ub17_ESO wrote: »

So you want none dlc dungeons to be more challenging?

Simple, only join PUGs. Boom. Problem solved.

How does that make the game more challenging? Whether my group members suck or not the game is easy mode for me how is that gonna change? Ya in maybe a few non dlc dungeons i might need a tank to hold boss but even any pug group will have a tank that atleast taunts.

So thats a pretty bad solution.

Best one i heard so far is read scroll in beginning of dungeon to make all boss mechanics more challenging.

So making the numbers of mobs high is not 'artificial difficulty'?

altemriel

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

At this point i find it very ironic that there are over 20 dungeons you can walk through on vet hard mode like nothing.

You can do it with 2 dps, 3 dps, 4 dps, doesnt matter dont need healer and tank you only need 1 IF that.

Since dlc dungeons came out ZoS has had the right idea in making dungeons actually challenging but unfortunately its 25 dungeons too late im afraid and the ONLY difficult/fun/challenging content in this game is VDSA VMA All vet trials on hard mode and 6 dlc dungeons.

There are 24 other dungeons in this game i know dungeons get boring repeating anyway so who really cares to buff them but atleast it makes the game make sense.

To me doesnt make sense to have 6 hard dungeons and 24 super easy do em with anybody dungeons. Anybody else agree or?

And i dont mean give them another 1.5 million health. Make red circles actually one shot like in dlc dungeons.

I can lay down in red circles in vaults of madness. Literally if i die in there i was being really dumb.

And to do a quickie review on recent dlc chapters etc im lovin it new dungeons are great new motifs great just need to make dungeons funner not just dlc ones.

#MakeDungeonsGreatAgain

no, non-vet dungeons are for casuals like this one.
meowz!

Banana

No