I am disgusted...

AbysmalGhul · September 2017

I have developed the strongest back muscles from randoms in Tameriel . I can squat with a DPS on each shoulder now. *flexes ripped muscles

Of course, none of this wouldn't have been possible without the guidance of the buff and ripped elites before me. *wink wink

witchdoctor · September 2017

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Players are not supposed to know or to study or research ANYTHING before they enter a dungeon. This is a GAME. You are supposed to discover and find out via trial and error.

There is a quote attributed to Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr, a long-deceased Associate Justice of the US Supreme Court, which says: 'the right to swing my fist ends where the other man's nose begins.'

The point being, your preference is fine, up until the point it impacts on others. If you show up to a dungeon with 3 others, and you are going to learn to tank by trial and error, then you are wrong.

In fact, I'd like to point out what I consider a contradiction between your belief and your story. Your ability to 'trial and error' your way through SC1 was only because that healer knew enough to give you that freedom. You didn't learn anything in there without that healer to baby sit you. That was a great moment by that healer, it clearly stuck with you. But they were under no obligation to do so.

Anyways, that quote has been in my mind since I read this post, and I just now got a chance to reply.

djdc1234 · September 2017

Vimora wrote: »

Ok, I'm literally disgusted. How come so many people have the nerve to queue for dungeons when they do ZERO dps??? I'm not talking about tanks or healers, I'm talking about people who sign up for dps roles. They have zero respect for other people's time. They just wanna be carried. I can't stress this enough.

What happens when a healer can't heal? They get kicked. What happens when a tank can't tank? They get kicked. But what happens when both dps suck big time? An insanely long and tedious run that fails at the very end because they can't finish last boss. You can't kick them because 1) you don't know which one to kick, 2) they don't kick each other.

So what's the solution? Ragequit every dungeon right off the bat, when you see both dps suck? I could literally quit 60-70% of the runs these days if I do that and waste all my playtime waiting on CD.

Don't blame me for this rant. It's been a long time coming.

the problem would be fixed if there was no punishment, iv stopped playing since destiny 2 . i gotta say like destiny if someone is not doing there part in a strike i can just report them and leave or just leave and find a new TEAM RIGHT AWAY! i can do this as many times as i want till i get a team that works. without punishment. if destiny can do it so can ESO.

now that i have destiny 2 ill be away from ESO for a couple years unless im super bored when they are down. but ill prob catch up on tv shows i missed rather then play ESO. hopefully when destiny 2 is on a dry spell in a year ill be able to come back to no punishment on quitting.

Tucker3711 · September 2017

Doing this with a group that is willing to carry you is one thing... But in a queue THAT IS ANNOYING!

Waylander07 · September 2017

This is why i don't pve and i am sure that i am not the only one. The aggressive attitude towards those new to pve by some players who don't want their day ruined by someone trying to learn the ropes makes this a part of the game that i have no interest in.
I agree that their should be an elitist grouping option so that those players who don't want their day ruined by players trying to learn the game can team up without spoiling someone else's day.
There are two sides to this and it is not just players like op who are having their game ruined but also those he wants kicked.

ShadowFoxx · September 2017

I got a rubber sword and a big mouth, can i play?

Cpt_Teemo · September 2017

ShadowFoxx wrote: »

I got a rubber sword and a big mouth, can i play?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNYHFluhOGI

Waylander07 · September 2017

ShadowFoxx wrote: »

I got a rubber sword and a big mouth, can i play?

People keep ruining my day, why don't they get that the world revolves around me

Shadzilla · September 2017

Vimora wrote: »

Ok, I'm literally disgusted. How come so many people have the nerve to queue for dungeons when they do ZERO dps??? I'm not talking about tanks or healers, I'm talking about people who sign up for dps roles. They have zero respect for other people's time. They just wanna be carried. I can't stress this enough.

What happens when a healer can't heal? They get kicked. What happens when a tank can't tank? They get kicked. But what happens when both dps suck big time? An insanely long and tedious run that fails at the very end because they can't finish last boss. You can't kick them because 1) you don't know which one to kick, 2) they don't kick each other.

So what's the solution? Ragequit every dungeon right off the bat, when you see both dps suck? I could literally quit 60-70% of the runs these days if I do that and waste all my playtime waiting on CD.

Don't blame me for this rant. It's been a long time coming.

1) Make friends and join guilds with decent players, and play with them.

or

2) Cry about it on the forums.

Vizier · September 2017

If you're going to Pug you can't really be mad about someone trying to play whatever their skill or game knowledge. You're going to run into all kinds. Can either be a **** about it or helpful...shrug.

When stuff happens we tend to give a little advice and find that after talking with them they are willing to leave on their own.

Mureel · September 2017

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Much entitlement. How dare someone buy a game and play it.

lol Usually I agree with you; but how dare someone continually take advantage of someone else on content they KNOW they cannot clear?

That sword cuts both ways.

DocFrost72 · September 2017

Vimora wrote: »

They don't care. The general consensus seems to be everyone has the right to play the content and do nothing in it.

No, the general concensus is you don't control others.

We don't have laws because people will follow them. We have them so if you break them we can punish you.

You will never, not in a million million years, be able to stop absolute newbs from flailing on the floor and calling it DPS. It will never happen no matter how hard you try. That is an inherent flaw in the PUGing system.

What you can do is limit your own exposure to it by grouping with people you trust to do their job.

Should you have to? Not in a perfect world, no. This is not a perfect world. Should people know their roles and try? Yes. No one is disagreeing, they're trying to tell you you cannot do jack diddly aboot it, friend.

To bring the opening metaphor back around one more time: Do you not lock your front door because there is a law that says don't steal? You can't control others. You can control your experiences.

shadoza · September 2017

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Vimora wrote: »

They don't care. The general consensus seems to be everyone has the right to play the content and do nothing in it.

No, the general concensus is you don't control others.

We don't have laws because people will follow them. We have them so if you break them we can punish you.

You will never, not in a million million years, be able to stop absolute newbs from flailing on the floor and calling it DPS. It will never happen no matter how hard you try. That is an inherent flaw in the PUGing system.

What you can do is limit your own exposure to it by grouping with people you trust to do their job.

Should you have to? Not in a perfect world, no. This is not a perfect world. Should people know their roles and try? Yes. No one is disagreeing, they're trying to tell you you cannot do jack diddly aboot it, friend.

To bring the opening metaphor back around one more time: Do you not lock your front door because there is a law that says don't steal? You can't control others. You can control your experiences.

Actually, the law has nothing to do with it. I lock my front door to keep out those people that I do not want in my home. (I lock my back door too.) If there was no law against stealing, I would still lock my door. As long as I have something I do not want taken, I am going to lock that door, all the doors, and the windows.

I do agree, One soul in a game cannot control the masses.

Pele · September 2017

witchdoctor wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Players are not supposed to know or to study or research ANYTHING before they enter a dungeon. This is a GAME. You are supposed to discover and find out via trial and error.

There is a quote attributed to Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr, a long-deceased Associate Justice of the US Supreme Court, which says: 'the right to swing my fist ends where the other man's nose begins.'

The point being, your preference is fine, up until the point it impacts on others. If you show up to a dungeon with 3 others, and you are going to learn to tank by trial and error, then you are wrong.

In fact, I'd like to point out what I consider a contradiction between your belief and your story. Your ability to 'trial and error' your way through SC1 was only because that healer knew enough to give you that freedom. You didn't learn anything in there without that healer to baby sit you. That was a great moment by that healer, it clearly stuck with you. But they were under no obligation to do so.

Anyways, that quote has been in my mind since I read this post, and I just now got a chance to reply.

You win this thread.

SHADOW2KK · September 2017

Never understood why people run dungeons with pugs, play them them with friends or guildies.

Or create another whine thread on the forums.

Your choice OP.

anitajoneb17_ESO · September 2017

witchdoctor wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Players are not supposed to know or to study or research ANYTHING before they enter a dungeon. This is a GAME. You are supposed to discover and find out via trial and error.

There is a quote attributed to Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr, a long-deceased Associate Justice of the US Supreme Court, which says: 'the right to swing my fist ends where the other man's nose begins.'

The point being, your preference is fine, up until the point it impacts on others. If you show up to a dungeon with 3 others, and you are going to learn to tank by trial and error, then you are wrong.

In fact, I'd like to point out what I consider a contradiction between your belief and your story. Your ability to 'trial and error' your way through SC1 was only because that healer knew enough to give you that freedom. You didn't learn anything in there without that healer to baby sit you. That was a great moment by that healer, it clearly stuck with you. But they were under no obligation to do so.

I talk "ask for help - receive help - enjoy the gift - be grateful", and you answer with "rights & obligations" ? I'm afraid you didn't understand my story at all.

And yes, if I show up in a PUG and expect to learn tanking by trial and error, I may not achieve much (although don't forget that some PUGs are very helpful and cooperative). But if I show up in a GUILD group where people know in advance and accepted that I'm there for learning, then yes, I will learn a lot. Again, friends and guilds are the answer.

Dantaria wrote: »

How convenient is the the world-view you're trying to make us see this whole thread, isn't it? When you PUG, you're joining randoms, poor PUGs do not deserve rage, randoms aren't responsible, those poor queueing people aren't responsible...
Well, how. About. No?
"Want competence - join the guild, it's all about guilds". Yeah, you just want to free people from responsibility.

Well, PUG members are per definition random anonymous. How are you going to make anonymous people responsible for anything ? Sure you can rant about them if that's doing you any good, but how's that going to help you in dungeons ?
GUILDS are the place where people stop being anonymous and can be held responsible. Guilds are, once again, the answer.

witchdoctor · September 2017

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

I talk "ask for help - receive help - enjoy the gift - be grateful", and you answer with "rights & obligations" ? I'm afraid you didn't understand my story at all.

No, I understood your words plainly. I think you are wrong. My quote sums up exactly why I think you are wrong.

Your laissez faire attitude stops the moment others are impacted, whether that group forms via a PUG or a guild is irrelevant.

anitajoneb17_ESO · September 2017

witchdoctor wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

I talk "ask for help - receive help - enjoy the gift - be grateful", and you answer with "rights & obligations" ? I'm afraid you didn't understand my story at all.

No, I understood your words plainly. I think you are wrong. My quote sums up exactly why I think you are wrong.

Your laissez faire attitude stops the moment others are impacted, whether that group forms via a PUG or a guild is irrelevant.

Maybe I worded my story wrong then, but you didn't understand it at all.
And your principles may be valid in theory but the difference is, you can't hold PUG people (per definition anonymous) responsible for anything, whereas you can do that in guilds.

What would like ZOS to do ? Let's assume you had the power to decide. Would you have a pop-up screen before entering every dungeon, saying :

"Dear player, be cautious. You are about to enter a group play area and will be grouped with other members. You are morally obligated to know what you are doing and to play good enough to not be a burden to your fellow groupmates. Please ensure that you are reasonably geared and experienced to do that. If you are unsure, we advise you the following tutorials => links".

That could be worded more creatively, or lore-friendly.

Is it what you'd recommend ?

sabretalon · September 2017

The other thing as well is. People keep saying do your research and learn from that. I come to the forums to do such a thing and then find that in a lot of cases research can not be completed!

What happens is, you tell people you are on console and they point you to guides that in the first few paragraphs tell you which add ons you need to help you... we can't use add ons, this is pointless.

It seems like on PC you get the extra help via third parties with add ons. On console you have to learn by asking questions but with the risk of being ignored, shot down or very rarely with someone pointing in the right direction.

Want to know more on crafting, get these add ons to help you with the most efficient way to level. Want to know a more efficient levelling route, get the add on.

This I probably part of the reason on pc? If people become reliant on add ons and there are none for checking your gear or giving best rotations etc... then those loners wanting to complete some quests that require them to group up struggle.

On console, we struggle all the time as the typical user of console I more used to going it alone. Being sociable is either very slow using your controller to type in, a keyboard or headset.

Banana · September 2017

Don't do dungeons with randoms if you aren't prepared to get the shaft on occasion

witchdoctor · September 2017

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

What would like ZOS to do ?

Other than make a better tutorial? Nothing.

We players have the power in our hands: vote kick, or, yes, run a pre-made group.

I see it as a personality issue on both extremes. The uber-casual who cannot be bothered to do anything before joining a group and being an anchor on 3 others, or the wanna-be elitist who cannot be bothered to consider 3 others (see the recent threads on vote kick, et. al.). They both have their heads squarely misplaced.

I am merely pointing out how I find your logic and rationale wrong. Your argument is frequently, so far as you seem to express it, that since you cannot hold anyone 'responsible,' you cannot complain if you PUG.

Well, guess what? You can hold someone responsible: vote kick.

Frankly, I think it should be used often. If someone is an anchor, or a nuisance, cut em loose. Put them on ignore, and move on.

Furthermore, constructive complaining can serve its purpose too. If more people were liberal with vote kicks, even in easy normal dungeons, behaviour may (or may not, I'll admit) improve.

bebynnag · September 2017

Dantaria wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

The game's designed around guilds. That's all really.

But... your choice. See, you also refuse to learn, adapt and take advice and see the obvious...just because.

How convenient is the the world-view you're trying to make us see this whole thread, isn't it? When you PUG, you're joining randoms, poor PUGs do not deserve rage, randoms aren't responsible, those poor queueing people aren't responsible...

Well, how. About. No?

"Want competence - join the guild, it's all about guilds". Yeah, you just want to free people from responsibility.

"Hmmm. It's a group content. So I will be like... With other people. Hmm. Maybe I should research something before joining other people so I wouldn't be a burden?" - nope, not happening in your beautiful idealistic world. Even shouldn't happen in your idealistic world.

Suppose someone queued vet as tank - got DDs who pulled 5k each - didn't finish dungeon, is understandably frustrated about it, wants to rant. HIS OWN FAULT. Shouldn't have PUGged.

Yes. The one who actually did spend his time to learn the game to pull his own weight, the one who actually worked is at fault. Not poor PUGs. Not those who PUG vet without any idea how to fulfill their role.

"Join the guild" - yeah, sure, it answers everything. "Game has no good, actually usefull tutorial - why try voicing disapproval so maybe things would change, just join the guild". "People propose some sort of testing before joining vet - HOW DARE THEY, next thing they will propose is some sort of exam for entering University after school and this is so offensive, so just join the guild". "In every situation - just **** up and join the guild".

Very convenient position. Allows you to point and laugh at frustrated players who actually worked and tried. And those who PUG vet without any consideration for others? Innocent as newborn children.

Yeah. Right.

***

Also, all of you with "but how do I get gear without running end-game content?".

Are. You. Even. Serious?

Farm normals. Farm normal dungeons, farm normal trials. What do you think you need, the golden jewellry? Pha. No you don't. Difference between blue one and golden is tiny.

Farm normal, upgrate cloth to epic, only weapons absolutely must be golden, practice rotation - woo-hoo, here comes DPS!

If you cannot pull 20-25k without things you can find only in vet dungeons/trials - things you can find only in vet dungeons/trials will not help you. They absolutely WILL NOT.

wish i could give you a thousand awesomes!

bebynnag · September 2017

sabretalon wrote: »

The other thing as well is. People keep saying do your research and learn from that. I come to the forums to do such a thing and then find that in a lot of cases research can not be completed!

What happens is, you tell people you are on console and they point you to guides that in the first few paragraphs tell you which add ons you need to help you... we can't use add ons, this is pointless.

It seems like on PC you get the extra help via third parties with add ons. On console you have to learn by asking questions but with the risk of being ignored, shot down or very rarely with someone pointing in the right direction.

Want to know more on crafting, get these add ons to help you with the most efficient way to level. Want to know a more efficient levelling route, get the add on.

This I probably part of the reason on pc? If people become reliant on add ons and there are none for checking your gear or giving best rotations etc... then those loners wanting to complete some quests that require them to group up struggle.

On console, we struggle all the time as the typical user of console I more used to going it alone. Being sociable is either very slow using your controller to type in, a keyboard or headset.

also xbox EU is a lot quieter than every other server

this does however force a player to 'get gud'

you are constantly faced with delves, dolmen, public dungeons & world bosses that you have to solo because there is nobody around to help you.

you are forced to learn the mechanics & improve your playstyle or skip the content there is no back-up to call for

Vimora · September 2017

Banana wrote: »

Don't do dungeons with randoms if you aren't prepared to get the shaft on occasion

Talk is cheap. It's obvous you never run PUGs. On occasion? Right...

Why are PUGs even a thing, then? If they fail more often than not. They shouldn't be possible in the first place. Or at least do what other games do and set an item level requirement for queuing.

Magdalina · September 2017

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

This was taken in BC 2(in a normal dungeon, we'd never have made vet with these number, normal was barely doable on its own), and is very representative of the dps we had the whole run . Note that I was healing it and I only had about 200 cp and subpar gear(not even cp 160) whereas both "dps" had over 300 cp. On that screenshot I did 7.5k dps, tank was actually kind of taunting so must've been another 1-2k at least...that means that 2 300+ cp dps managed a whopping <=3k dps together. That's ~1.5k dps per person. ...heck I believe it's actually their aoe dps too, looks like it was a trash pull.

I'm not saying this is the exact situation OP ran in but to imply every time someone complains about group's underperformance they're exaggerating and/or being elitist is well...how dare those damn elitists demand a cp 300+ does more than 1.5k dps?! What about all those people that go into dungeons to rp rather than fight - that is just purely insulting to the way they wanna play!

So you made it ? Where's the problem then ?

I don't imply that everyone complaining about group underperformance is exaggerating. Some groups are underperforming. But I strongly imply two things :
1/ Someone coming here with a thread saying "I'm literally disgusted by those damage dealers doing literally zero DPS" IS exaggerating.
2/ If you want to be sure that your group will be performing and don't want to run with underperforming people : DO NOT PUG !

Frankly I'm fed up with people complaining about PUGs but use the group finder out of the pure laziness of forming their own groups and social circles.

If I were complaining that my plumber does a bad job and overbills me, wouldn't you tell me to go look for another one ?

@anitajoneb17_ESO

The issue is that only reason we made it is because it was a dungeon I could solo.

The issue is this is the new average eso player. The issue is this is the people who queue for vet dungeons as well(it wasn't level 20s, I wouldn't dream of saying anything if it were level 20 newbies, but cp 300+ is pretty damn high up there, it's considered enough even for vet trials). The issue is that it turns into a vicious circle where people like this fill the groupfinder, make experienced players use it less, then have nowhere and no one to teach them and keep failing and just get scared away from group dungeons and harder content in general. And then we get all the "nerf this" from one side and "buff that" from another, further splitting the community apart.

I don't understand why you keep saying "just don't use it" is a solution. It's like, there's a problem in this place of my town but let's just not go there. Let's all avoid this place and turn it into a ghetto for people who don't know any better, let's tell our higher ups too that it's fine, this place has always been meant to be a ghetto, no one cares about it. This is a multiplayer game, this is the community we revolve in. Sure you can avoid it. Only run with friends, ignore open world people who run in on world boss fights and steal agro with frost heavy just to die 10 times in a row then pull the boss far enough that it resets, never pug, etc...but it's there.

I don't understand why we should all treat pugging as some "only if you have no friends" lower class experience. When the game launched none of us had any "friends"(well short of those who started playing with rl friends), we got friends by pugging. I got into whole dungeon thing because I met a really awesome pug in my level 30-s, we kept running together til like vet 5 or so(alas they have left the game due to rl stuff then). I met some of my best eso friends I still play with in pugs. New players - especially those "first MMO straight out of Skyrim" players like I once was - don't normally start by finding a guild, they'll start by using groupfinder...and get this kind of experience. I wanna pug to meet new fun people but it's a 1 in a million occurrence these days because due to issues like this most decent players stopped pugging altogether. I wanna pug to teach new players the game like people once taught me - but it's nigh impossible because most of them are no longer open to learning these days, it's play how they want or gtfo.

A pug is a group of 4(for dungeons at least) random people teamed together to achieve a common goal. Nothing more, but nothing less. I don't understand why it's become the norm to expect these 4 people to never communicate to each other and refuse to change anything in their build/playstyle to better suit their goal.

DocFrost72 · September 2017

Vimora wrote: »

Banana wrote: »

Don't do dungeons with randoms if you aren't prepared to get the shaft on occasion

Talk is cheap. It's obvous you never run PUGs. On occasion? Right...

Why are PUGs even a thing, then? If they fail more often than not. They shouldn't be possible in the first place. Or at least do what other games do and set an item level requirement for queuing.

You are getting remarkably bad luck if most of your pugs are failing. It's either that, or the problem isn't your pug- I'm not assuming that until I have reason to though. Most pugs are just dandy on my end, and for a vast majority of my friends list.

Does it suck that there will be some long dungeons? Mhm. Read my three solutions again , all you need is to queue with one friend as dps and problems literally disappear...

anitajoneb17_ESO · September 2017

witchdoctor wrote: »

I am merely pointing out how I find your logic and rationale wrong. Your argument is frequently, so far as you seem to express it, that since you cannot hold anyone 'responsible,' you cannot complain if you PUG.

Magdalina wrote: »

I don't understand why you keep saying "just don't use it" is a solution. It's like, there's a problem in this place of my town but let's just not go there. .../... A pug is a group of 4(for dungeons at least) random people teamed together to achieve a common goal.

I don't like long quotes so I snipped to the most important parts (in all subjectivity), but I read both your posts entirely.

The part where I say "you cannot complain if you PUG" is from a practical point of view. Of course you *can* complain, but is it leading you anywhere ? I should rephrase by "it's useless to complain if you PUG".

The keyword imho is Magalina's "common goal". What common goal ? Beat the dungeon ? Well, in your example, you did, and yet you were not happy because you had to carry everyone, so obviously YOUR goal was above simply beating the dungeon, and wasn't a COMMON goal.

Let me use an analogy here. Dress code.

Common social ground is that you have to be "dressed" when entering public places. If you like being naked around other people, you may want to look for a naturist beach or club or sauna. If you like cosplaying, you may want to attend a cosplay society and some festival. If you like wearing evening or cocktail dresses, you might want to join some select clubs and get invited to selective events. If you like sportswear you may want to join some casual circles, if you like pyjamas you can organize pyjamas parties with your friends, and so on.
But no matter how you take it, you will not be welcome in a cosplaying society if you wear a suit and a tie, you will not be welcome in a naturist group if you're cosplaying, you will not be welcome in a sport event if you wear an evening dress, and unless you live in Texas you're not supposed to wear a cow-boy hat with a banker's suit

I could go on and on, but you get what I mean.

"Getting dressed" might be a common goal for anyone getting outside, but it means something different for each and everyone of us. Just like "running a dungeon" means something different for each category of players.

If your goal is to enjoy the game and its group play instances the way you want (which is legit, be it slow, quick, efficient, messy, funny, super-optimized, whatever... ) you're far better off looking for people who share the same goal. That's where guilds come in. Guilds are the way you can group with like-minded people and synergize with them.

The group finder is not necessarily a 2nd hand option "for people with no friends", but it's an helicopter that can drop you ANYWHERE : a bank office, an olympic stadion, a naturist beach, or a country linedance event. If you use group finder, you MUST be ready to adapt to anywhere and anything, and make the best out of it. You can also - and that is statistically the most likely option - end up in a totally disparate group like in Trafalgar Square, and walk together at your destination, but as 4 people who will never look nor act as a group. If you have even the slightest expectation as to how people should be and that they should share the same goal as yourself, you'll likely be disappointed. So my conclusion is, as always : "If you have expectations, don't PUG".

As to teaching new players, the issue of the "common goal" is the same. If you're cosplaying and want to teach others how to better cosplay, you'll be a deity to anyone who actually wants to cosplay, but an annoyance to anyone else. So there again a "guild" with a cosplaying culture would be a better place to do so, for everyone's sake.

And don't forget there's a middleground between guilds and grouping tool : zone chat grouping. Many players group successfully via zone announcements like "LFM vet Spindle speedrun exp only". That way they don't get the newbies/bad - and if they do, they have every moral right to kick them politely. Like you can kick anyone who comes in cocktail dress to your pyjama party. Because it is YOUR party, while a PUG group isn't YOUR group.

I hope I made my point of view a little bit more clear.

neal_brasier · September 2017

auronessb16_ESO wrote: »

I've played solo for 8 months, guilds never seem to work out for me. But all the hype about awesome group dungeons, people talking about trophy and helmets. I wanted to see what it was like. First few random dungeons were fun. I could hold my own, not die very often and not get left behind. I thought the random dungeons were based on average level of the group, and a mid-30's character would make it little easier for everyone.

Then I was placed in White Gold Tower. I didn't even know a person could be voted out, but I found out. Now I quit when I find out it is one of the Imperial City dungeons, I know I am not good enough and never will be. I've got better armor, better weapons, improved buffs and improve my skill selection and want to try again. I'm up to level 45 now. I can do PvE much easier. I like to try random dungeons from time to time, but the anger I get from some groups keeps me out.

I just wish the random (non-vet) dungeon would account for levels. A group of 100+ level people don't want to get stuck with a level 30, and I don't want to disappoint them.

Some of us don't care if we get a level 30 in our group, I certainly don't. If I'm queing foe a random normal I expect it really as that's how people gain a big chunk of xp.
As to your comment about white gold tower try reading up online somewhere about the mechanics once you get those sorted it's not that bad a dungeon at all, vet on the other hand is a [snip] lol

[Edited for profanity]

KochDerDamonen · September 2017

SirAndy wrote: »

Vimora wrote: »

Ok, I'm literally disgusted. How come so many people have the nerve to queue for dungeons when they do ZERO dps???

That is literally impossible ...

Literally:
https://merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/misuse-of-literally

@SirAndy @anitajoneb17_ESO OP clearly says they are literally disgusted, not that the players deal 'literally zero' dps.

If you're going to nitpick, at least nitpick something that was actually said...

This forum makes me laugh, so many people ready to assume anyone complaining about the performance of PUG dps is an elitist with high standards. There is literally DD out there who literally light attack, with perhaps a single spell cast per fight or so. It's not putting down people with off-meta or non-min/maxed builds, It's not expecting 40k or 25k dps

And to reiterate, don't post the definition of a word that wasn't even misused. In fact, even if the OP did say 'literally zero dps', it's a commonly understood exaggeration. Don't try to ride a high horse.

bebynnag · September 2017

i think the logic in this thread ended when i was called incosistant for repeatedly asking for tutorials to be introduced which introduced the basics of each role, by somebody who went from promoting alcast's websites to demanding that people should not have to look to external sources to learn how to play the game!

to be clear i think the work done by theory crafters & streamers for the community is amazing, i am not knocking their work, or questioning its validity, i just strongly believe zos have a responsibly to teach their newest players the most basic of skills ie enemies will attack you if you taunt them.