Magic sorcs are not op . Sort your build out

ak_pvp

leepalmer95 wrote: »

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exeeter702 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

Sorc is the strongest class right now to say other wise is a bold face lie.Even sorc admit it.

I have no problem with sorc but to say there not strong is a lie.

Ranged magblade is stronger if you do the same things a sorc does.

Its true a magblade will destroy a mag sorc in a 1v1.

That is true. NB is a hard counter to Magsorcs. That doesn't mean magblade is better. I.e. openworld, BGs, smallscale etc.

Lord-Otto

Yeah, it's really difficult to fire a bow so fast it can't be reactively dodged. To have an AoE CC that eliminates block and dodge. To get 5k resistances for free, also 8% max mag and easy Necro pet with Minor Maim. To have a sustain skill that doesn't eat a resource and can't be interrupted. To be able to cloak away and giggle about the twenty force missed frags heading your way.

Yeah, really difficult. Twice as any other class. Totally reasonable statement without any bias or delusions. Ahaaa.

wheem_ESO

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Class ultis? Forget about it.

What? Negate is one of the most astoundingly powerful Ultimates in the game, and is likely to be a "requirement" for most teams if we ever get a truly competitive ranking system for PvP.

Lexxypwns

wheem_ESO wrote: »

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Lexxypwns wrote: »

Class ultis? Forget about it.

What? Negate is one of the most astoundingly powerful Ultimates in the game, and is likely to be a "requirement" for most teams if we ever get a truly competitive ranking system for PvP.

And you're better off having a stam sorc run your negates because then they can also run your rapids too.

exeeter702

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Yeah, it's really difficult to fire a bow so fast it can't be reactively dodged. To have an AoE CC that eliminates block and dodge. To get 5k resistances for free, also 8% max mag and easy Necro pet with Minor Maim. To have a sustain skill that doesn't eat a resource and can't be interrupted. To be able to cloak away and giggle about the twenty force missed frags heading your way.

Yeah, really difficult. Twice as any other class. Totally reasonable statement without any bias or delusions. Ahaaa.

No one is dismissing the strengths of magnb. You naming then doesnt do anything here.

Bow proc has roughly the same projectile speed as frags, siphoning eats an initial resource of the very resource you are using it for, and you are getting it back i n full aftet 15 seconds. Fear is strong yes. Free resistences? What are you talking about? Shadow barrier is mag nbs source of the majors, just as sorcs get it with form, dk with spikes, temps with focus and wardens with frost cloak. The only way a nb can compete with the duration is if they sit in heavy armor or run path.

The classes do not exist in a vacuum here. There plenty of variables that influence why class x has tool y and no one else.

Johnnny

The problems are not the shields. The problems are CPs, heaing staff ult, BGs points system and streak, how can you fail to see that?
In no cp campaing with enough sustain to keep shields up my shields actually shield me for 7k damage (hardened), 5k (harness, or 7k dampen) and something around that (healing ward). And I can't *** sustain dampen or harness, so I had to drop it for boundless storm, wich gives me much more resistance.

In CP, however, I can have a shield to protect me for 13~14k and I actually have enough sustain to keep them up using even dampen or harness.

Streak should be a realocating skill, shouldn't be used to escape a fight, but to reposition yourself so you can take pessure off of you. You shouldn't be able to streak 4 times in a row to escape a fight you would lose otherwise, thats the problem with streak. Just give the 4th streak a big CD or something like that.

BG points are just dumb, the healer is usually the most important player in a bg and he will win 90% of the games, but he wil be the one doing less points because that 200cp sorc will just spam wrath and get kills. This is wrong, BG's should be about winning, so, winrate should metter, not dumb stats like kills or assists.

Healing ult is really dumb, I can cast it, tank 4 players, streak, pot and use it again while tanking this guys and while waiting for my magicka to recover from the shields I used when my ult was off.

Takes-No-Prisoner

Waffennacht wrote: »

For the first time ever someone gave a solid response as to what they feel the game should be balanced around.

Though I may or may not agree with your assessment, you sir, get an awesome.

He shouldn't have to say that. Everyone here who steps into a MMO and wants a PvP experience needs to understand this disclaimer before going into Cyrodiil period. Every ability is balanced around group play. Can't beat someone in a group play scenario? Good! You shouldn't be able to 1vX in most situations, but it does happen-- cookies to those of you who do do that, you're all special flowers and you earn your keep. In the off chance any one reading this post ever struggles with classes grouping together, they need to go find themselves bodies to group with. This is why I don't hate on people who run Zerg Crowns in Cyrodiil. They don't do the solo stuff, and their strengths are in being in various sized groups. They are allowed to play in Cyrodiil in this manner, and we don't have a right to criticize it. Because they're playing the game as it's meant to be played. We can argue about lag to any capacity because it degrades the experience, but on the flip side if lag is such an issue, anyone is free to leave that area and go somewhere else.

A lot of folks I see on PS4 and on here seem to think it needs to be balanced in one super spectacular way, when the correct answer will always be group play. Drives me bonkers why people need to be reminded of this.

thankyourat

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

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Waffennacht wrote: »

For the first time ever someone gave a solid response as to what they feel the game should be balanced around.

Though I may or may not agree with your assessment, you sir, get an awesome.

He shouldn't have to say that. Everyone here who steps into a MMO and wants a PvP experience needs to understand this disclaimer before going into Cyrodiil period. Every ability is balanced around group play. Can't beat someone in a group play scenario? Good! You shouldn't be able to 1vX in most situations, but it does happen-- cookies to those of you who do do that, you're all special flowers and you earn your keep. In the off chance any one reading this post ever struggles with classes grouping together, they need to go find themselves bodies to group with. This is why I don't hate on people who run Zerg Crowns in Cyrodiil. They don't do the solo stuff, and their strengths are in being in various sized groups. They are allowed to play in Cyrodiil in this manner, and we don't have a right to criticize it. Because they're playing the game as it's meant to be played. We can argue about lag to any capacity because it degrades the experience, but on the flip side if lag is such an issue, anyone is free to leave that area and go somewhere else.

A lot of folks I see on PS4 and on here seem to think it needs to be balanced in one super spectacular way, when the correct answer will always be group play. Drives me bonkers why people need to be reminded of this.

It needs to have a good balance for small group and solo play as well though. The answer to struggling with broken mechanics shouldn't be find more players to play with. That's why cyrodill is just one laggy 3 way battle. I don't think the game was meant for an alliance to bring their whole population to one keep (unless dethrown). Yesterday i watched as over 80 DC ran through the chalman gate why didn't half of them try to take Ash back from AD? that's why i criticize zergs. Sometimes i feel they are purposely trying to break the server. At what number does the grouping stop. As long as they keep neglecting solo play the zergs will keep getting bigger and the lag will get worse

Takes-No-Prisoner

thankyourat wrote: »

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Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

For the first time ever someone gave a solid response as to what they feel the game should be balanced around.

Though I may or may not agree with your assessment, you sir, get an awesome.

He shouldn't have to say that. Everyone here who steps into a MMO and wants a PvP experience needs to understand this disclaimer before going into Cyrodiil period. Every ability is balanced around group play. Can't beat someone in a group play scenario? Good! You shouldn't be able to 1vX in most situations, but it does happen-- cookies to those of you who do do that, you're all special flowers and you earn your keep. In the off chance any one reading this post ever struggles with classes grouping together, they need to go find themselves bodies to group with. This is why I don't hate on people who run Zerg Crowns in Cyrodiil. They don't do the solo stuff, and their strengths are in being in various sized groups. They are allowed to play in Cyrodiil in this manner, and we don't have a right to criticize it. Because they're playing the game as it's meant to be played. We can argue about lag to any capacity because it degrades the experience, but on the flip side if lag is such an issue, anyone is free to leave that area and go somewhere else.

A lot of folks I see on PS4 and on here seem to think it needs to be balanced in one super spectacular way, when the correct answer will always be group play. Drives me bonkers why people need to be reminded of this.

It needs to have a good balance for small group and solo play as well though. The answer to struggling with broken mechanics shouldn't be find more players to play with.

However, to some degree even when you are running solo, you still have players around you--back to my point it's an MMO. Just because you are not grouped does not necessarily mean you aren't getting buffs from players at various distances away. Let's not forget, Keep bonus', Emperorship, and Scroll Bonuses-- all of this affect your toon.

Solo / Small scale is a very grey area to balance IMO. There isn't a whole lot we could discuss here without possibly driving into theorycrafting situations.

That's why cyrodill is just one laggy 3 way battle. I don't think the game was meant for an alliance to bring their whole population to one keep (unless dethrown). Yesterday i watched as over 80 DC ran through the chalman gate why didn't half of them try to take Ash back from AD? that's why i criticize zergs. Sometimes i feel they are purposely trying to break the server. At what number does the grouping stop. As long as they keep neglecting solo play the zergs will keep getting bigger and the lag will get worse

Then why are you playing in that type of campaign? Why did you choose to be at a location you knew where it was going to take a hit on your frame rate? When you could just leave and go to the other campaigns at any time.

We all can't control that so that all boils down to good decision making. If Allmadden a DC Zerg Crown on PS4 NA, has to bring 120 DC to Roebeck Front Door to out muscle us Yellows. Then it's on Yellow to either defend it or abandon it and come back later. I've been in that kind of uphill fight. If we can't win against 120 man zerg, then we disperse and hit Nikel/Ash/Brindle while they are all trying to take or lag out Roebeck.

Johnnny

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

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thankyourat wrote: »

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

For the first time ever someone gave a solid response as to what they feel the game should be balanced around.

Though I may or may not agree with your assessment, you sir, get an awesome.

He shouldn't have to say that. Everyone here who steps into a MMO and wants a PvP experience needs to understand this disclaimer before going into Cyrodiil period. Every ability is balanced around group play. Can't beat someone in a group play scenario? Good! You shouldn't be able to 1vX in most situations, but it does happen-- cookies to those of you who do do that, you're all special flowers and you earn your keep. In the off chance any one reading this post ever struggles with classes grouping together, they need to go find themselves bodies to group with. This is why I don't hate on people who run Zerg Crowns in Cyrodiil. They don't do the solo stuff, and their strengths are in being in various sized groups. They are allowed to play in Cyrodiil in this manner, and we don't have a right to criticize it. Because they're playing the game as it's meant to be played. We can argue about lag to any capacity because it degrades the experience, but on the flip side if lag is such an issue, anyone is free to leave that area and go somewhere else.

A lot of folks I see on PS4 and on here seem to think it needs to be balanced in one super spectacular way, when the correct answer will always be group play. Drives me bonkers why people need to be reminded of this.

It needs to have a good balance for small group and solo play as well though. The answer to struggling with broken mechanics shouldn't be find more players to play with.

However, to some degree even when you are running solo, you still have players around you--back to my point it's an MMO. Just because you are not grouped does not necessarily mean you aren't getting buffs from players at various distances away. Let's not forget, Keep bonus', Emperorship, and Scroll Bonuses-- all of this affect your toon.

Solo / Small scale is a very grey area to balance IMO. There isn't a whole lot we could discuss here without possibly driving into theorycrafting situations.

show previous quotes

That's why cyrodill is just one laggy 3 way battle. I don't think the game was meant for an alliance to bring their whole population to one keep (unless dethrown). Yesterday i watched as over 80 DC ran through the chalman gate why didn't half of them try to take Ash back from AD? that's why i criticize zergs. Sometimes i feel they are purposely trying to break the server. At what number does the grouping stop. As long as they keep neglecting solo play the zergs will keep getting bigger and the lag will get worse

Then why are you playing in that type of campaign? Why did you choose to be at a location you knew where it was going to take a hit on your frame rate? When you could just leave and go to the other campaigns at any time.

We all can't control that so that all boils down to good decision making. If Allmadden a DC Zerg Crown on PS4 NA, has to bring 120 DC to Roebeck Front Door to out muscle us Yellows. Then it's on Yellow to either defend it or abandon it and come back later. I've been in that kind of uphill fight. If we can't win against 120 man zerg, then we disperse and hit Nikel/Ash/Brindle while they are all trying to take or lag out Roebeck.

Because if he kills some players there he can say he is a great 1vX, but if he fails and loses he can blame on them "damn baddie zerglings", like every youtuber. The pvp in this game is awesome, it just lacks big objectives and incentives for pvp guilds other than capturing meaningless castles and farming ap.

Takes-No-Prisoner

Johnnny wrote: »

Because if he kills some players there he can say he is a great 1vX, but if he fails and loses he can blame on them "damn baddie zerglings", like every youtuber. The pvp in this game is awesome, it just lacks big objectives and incentives for pvp guilds other than capturing meaningless castles and farming ap.

I mean we can take pot shots about what goes on inside of his head, but at the end of the day if he enjoys PvP--for whatever reason-- it's really his own business. Even you get something out of PvP since you said it was amazing yourself.

Me personally, I don't follow Twitch streamers or YouTubers for a number of reasons. I prefer to be my own master when it comes to my ESO experience. I feel those outlets are not for me.

Waffennacht

@Takes-No-Prisoner this is my first "true" MMO (dabbled in others before) but I have literally never heard an ratio or number for what should be balanced around (I mean ever, from anyone) I come from a LONG line of FPS.

For me, I assumed, if you balanced around 1v1, everything else would follow. I can see now, thanks to players like @thankyourat (whom has totally won me over) why that may not be the best idea. Sometimes people like me do need it spelt out

Takes-No-Prisoner

Waffennacht wrote: »

@Takes-No-Prisoner this is my first "true" MMO (dabbled in others before) but I have literally never heard an ratio or number for what should be balanced around (I mean ever, from anyone) I come from a LONG line of FPS.

For me, I assumed, if you balanced around 1v1, everything else would follow. I can see now, thanks to players like @thankyourat (whom has totally won me over) why that may not be the best idea. Sometimes people like me do need it spelt out

I understand, I'm the same way. I've got a thicky boney head I use to smash my enemies with. FPS balance is all about guns. Destiny has a running history of how one gun from a Raid was on par with ESO Maelstorm Weapons. That Destiny weapon was pretty much the cream of the crop... till it got nerfed.

Balance around 1v1, a great example of that is Street Fighter, King of Fighters, Tekken, Mortal Kombat. All of which are just one opponent on screen versus another on the opposite side. But that is very character based balance. ESO is very much gear and ability balance which are two very huge parts of the game. That's not even including things like the Champion Point System. All three of those things heavily factor into group play as well. So when people jump on ESO balance? There is a galactic ton of information to comb over. It's not nearly as simple as balancing Street Fighter Ryu's Hadoken special move.

Alpheu5

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

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Waffennacht wrote: »

@Takes-No-Prisoner this is my first "true" MMO (dabbled in others before) but I have literally never heard an ratio or number for what should be balanced around (I mean ever, from anyone) I come from a LONG line of FPS.

For me, I assumed, if you balanced around 1v1, everything else would follow. I can see now, thanks to players like @thankyourat (whom has totally won me over) why that may not be the best idea. Sometimes people like me do need it spelt out

I understand, I'm the same way. I've got a thicky boney head I use to smash my enemies with. FPS balance is all about guns. Destiny has a running history of how one gun from a Raid was on par with ESO Maelstorm Weapons. That Destiny weapon was pretty much the cream of the crop... till it got nerfed.

Balance around 1v1, a great example of that is Street Fighter, King of Fighters, Tekken, Mortal Kombat. All of which are just one opponent on screen versus another on the opposite side. But that is very character based balance. ESO is very much gear and ability balance which are two very huge parts of the game. That's not even including things like the Champion Point System. All three of those things heavily factor into group play as well. So when people jump on ESO balance? There is a galactic ton of information to comb over. It's not nearly as simple as balancing Street Fighter Ryu's Hadoken special move.

And we don't exactly have a Smogon-like community to organize peer-balanced rulesets based on the most up-to-date mechanics of the game. It's like there's a mass want for balance, but a mass reluctance for change at the same time.

Takes-No-Prisoner

Alpheu5 wrote: »

And we don't exactly have a Smogon-like community to organize peer-balanced rulesets based on the most up-to-date mechanics of the game. It's like there's a mass want for balance, but a mass reluctance for change at the same time.

Smash Brothers has a similar community enforced rule-set that is different per region you decide to play tournaments in. While Street Fighter has its rule-set pre-baked in.

A lot of that mostly came about from grass roots communities running rule sets that seemed fair across the board. But I thought other folks who do dueling or group tournaments already run similar rule sets? If they didn't like a particular gear set it'd be soft banned? I'm not 100% sure what you're getting at here.

Vizier

Nerf the spamabble cheesy Sorc Execute and half the Sorc whine would evaporate. All magic classes can shield stack, but the only one people really cry about is Sorc....

Defilted

What if they only allowed 1 castable shield at a time for any class? So you could not use Hadrened ward and light armor shield at the same time. Procs and items abilities would stay the same and stack with whatever castable shield you had on currently.


I am also completely fine with leaving how it is. I battle sorcs all the time in Cyro and yes some of them are extremely hard to kill but that is not becasue they are stacking shields. It is normally becasue they are better at keeping you at a distance and line of sighting you. They also have great burst. I do not think all srocs are alike as I will in one instance easy kill a sorc and in the next find it very hard to keep up with one.

If you change the class there will be just another class or ability that good players know how to use that will make others angry and those people will call for a nerf.

I also do agree that sorcs are strong, but I do not think they are across the board OP.

Waffennacht

Defilted wrote: »

What if they only allowed 1 castable shield at a time for any class? So you could not use Hadrened ward and light armor shield at the same time. Procs and items abilities would stay the same and stack with whatever castable shield you had on currently.


I am also completely fine with leaving how it is. I battle sorcs all the time in Cyro and yes some of them are extremely hard to kill but that is not becasue they are stacking shields. It is normally becasue they are better at keeping you at a distance and line of sighting you. They also have great burst. I do not think all srocs are alike as I will in one instance easy kill a sorc and in the next find it very hard to keep up with one.

If you change the class there will be just another class or ability that good players know how to use that will make others angry and those people will call for a nerf.

I also do agree that sorcs are strong, but I do not think they are across the board OP.

You're describing the minor major system the community generally agreed on prior to the duration change. On this ZoS was like, "We see what you're saying, we see that the majority agrees on it, No."

leepalmer95

ak_pvp wrote: »

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leepalmer95 wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

Sorc is the strongest class right now to say other wise is a bold face lie.Even sorc admit it.

I have no problem with sorc but to say there not strong is a lie.

Ranged magblade is stronger if you do the same things a sorc does.

Its true a magblade will destroy a mag sorc in a 1v1.

That is true. NB is a hard counter to Magsorcs. That doesn't mean magblade is better. I.e. openworld, BGs, smallscale etc.

So what overall? Duel?

Waffennacht wrote: »

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Defilted wrote: »

What if they only allowed 1 castable shield at a time for any class? So you could not use Hadrened ward and light armor shield at the same time. Procs and items abilities would stay the same and stack with whatever castable shield you had on currently.


I am also completely fine with leaving how it is. I battle sorcs all the time in Cyro and yes some of them are extremely hard to kill but that is not becasue they are stacking shields. It is normally becasue they are better at keeping you at a distance and line of sighting you. They also have great burst. I do not think all srocs are alike as I will in one instance easy kill a sorc and in the next find it very hard to keep up with one.

If you change the class there will be just another class or ability that good players know how to use that will make others angry and those people will call for a nerf.

I also do agree that sorcs are strong, but I do not think they are across the board OP.

You're describing the minor major system the community generally agreed on prior to the duration change. On this ZoS was like, "We see what you're saying, we see that the majority agrees on it, No."

1 shield isn't enough

Mag wardens/ mag blades all have 1 shield with 8% extra magicka passives and easy access to necro buff, Yet that can't survive with just 1 shield.

I still don't see the problem. I can deal with mag sorc's just fine. If i'm with anyone we can always kill any solo mag sorc we find. 1v1 yeah shields are quite strong, yet i've killed plently of mag sorcs 1v1 on literally every character. They have decent burst but it's not like that burst is always going to hit and its reactable. Curse is annoying i agree it shouldn't explode twice and the fact you can't block it anymore is a bit annoying but frag is easy to counter.

davey1107

@Dk_needs_a_buff

Well to start with your handle seems to suggest that you think sorcs are OP against at least one class, lol.

I personally believe that sorcs are OP, and I think the analytics on ZOS's end (which they'd never share) would demonstrate this. Regardless, here's my first point: if you don't like discussions about Sorc power, don't read them. I don't care what you're sick of. Either ignore them or don't respond. No one asked you to weigh in if you don't want to.

To the broader point, as I wrote in a recent long post, I believe that Sorcs have become OP primarily due to:

1. Too many skills that multitask, allowing for a more efficient and potent bar setup.
2. The general power creep that is affecting all classes.
3. Too many skills, CPs and gear that return magic, negating the resource scarcity goals set out in update 14.

Whether one agrees or not, under this premise if we say "sorcs are OP," we are not saying that every sorc is a godlike titan or that every one is impossible to kill. We are merely saying that ON AVERAGE sorcs can pump out a little more power for longer and take more damage.

What this means is that if we were able to assign each player a hypothetical "player skill rating" of 1 to 100 based on how good they are, then perhaps I would look at my stamblade and assess that I can usually wipe out most any player with a skill rating of 85 or less. However, if I divide out the classes, he can wipe out Wardens, Templars, nightblades and DKs around level 85 or less, but with Sorcs he can only win consistently against players skilled at 70 or less. In other words, it's easier for C+ players to survive and kill with sorcs.

The reason there are so many posts about this is that a lot of players agree with this, and the posts get a lot of responses because there's debate about how to handle this.

In my opinion, sorcs don't need harsh nerfs. In fact, I think their dps should be buffed in some regards. But overall I think:

1. Some skills should lose the 3rd or 4th perk they offer.
2. Curse should not get an automatic second cast.
3. Shields should last longer, but not stack like they do and not scale off max magic.
4. Abilities that return magic should be toned down so that resources run dry consistent with other classes.

Lord-Otto

exeeter702 wrote: »

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Lord-Otto wrote: »

Yeah, it's really difficult to fire a bow so fast it can't be reactively dodged. To have an AoE CC that eliminates block and dodge. To get 5k resistances for free, also 8% max mag and easy Necro pet with Minor Maim. To have a sustain skill that doesn't eat a resource and can't be interrupted. To be able to cloak away and giggle about the twenty force missed frags heading your way.

Yeah, really difficult. Twice as any other class. Totally reasonable statement without any bias or delusions. Ahaaa.

No one is dismissing the strengths of magnb. You naming then doesnt do anything here.

Bow proc has roughly the same projectile speed as frags, siphoning eats an initial resource of the very resource you are using it for, and you are getting it back i n full aftet 15 seconds. Fear is strong yes. Free resistences? What are you talking about? Shadow barrier is mag nbs source of the majors, just as sorcs get it with form, dk with spikes, temps with focus and wardens with frost cloak. The only way a nb can compete with the duration is if they sit in heavy armor or run path.

The classes do not exist in a vacuum here. There plenty of variables that influence why class x has tool y and no one else.

Bro, the bow is wayyy faster than frags. Siphoning is free, unless you die in 15 seconds. Shadow Barrier is a passive. All other classes need to slot a skill. And without heavy, I bet you can manage to hit Fear or Surprise Attack every five seconds.

What I'm getting at is that you often hear magblades crying how difficult they are to play. BS. Pure BS. They have buffs as passives, giving you room for utility skills. They also get easy sustain and special buffs like Necro and Maim. Magblade is in fact easy mode these days if you pick your battles carefully.

exeeter702

Lord-Otto wrote: »

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exeeter702 wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Yeah, it's really difficult to fire a bow so fast it can't be reactively dodged. To have an AoE CC that eliminates block and dodge. To get 5k resistances for free, also 8% max mag and easy Necro pet with Minor Maim. To have a sustain skill that doesn't eat a resource and can't be interrupted. To be able to cloak away and giggle about the twenty force missed frags heading your way.

Yeah, really difficult. Twice as any other class. Totally reasonable statement without any bias or delusions. Ahaaa.

No one is dismissing the strengths of magnb. You naming then doesnt do anything here.

Bow proc has roughly the same projectile speed as frags, siphoning eats an initial resource of the very resource you are using it for, and you are getting it back i n full aftet 15 seconds. Fear is strong yes. Free resistences? What are you talking about? Shadow barrier is mag nbs source of the majors, just as sorcs get it with form, dk with spikes, temps with focus and wardens with frost cloak. The only way a nb can compete with the duration is if they sit in heavy armor or run path.

The classes do not exist in a vacuum here. There plenty of variables that influence why class x has tool y and no one else.

Bro, the bow is wayyy faster than frags. Siphoning is free, unless you die in 15 seconds. Shadow Barrier is a passive. All other classes need to slot a skill. And without heavy, I bet you can manage to hit Fear or Surprise Attack every five seconds.

What I'm getting at is that you often hear magblades crying how difficult they are to play. BS. Pure BS. They have buffs as passives, giving you room for utility skills. They also get easy sustain and special buffs like Necro and Maim. Magblade is in fact easy mode these days if you pick your battles carefully.

This is the last amount of effort im going to give on the subject as it has little do with the topic of this thread. Bow and frag have the same projectile speed, siphoning has an initial cast cost, Shadow Barrier is a passive that is activated by an active skill that must be slotted. The entire point at which i even stepped into this subject was in regards to the effectiveness of magNB played at 28 meters vs magSorc. Concealed weapon (stam NBs have nothing to do with this discussion) and fear are very expensive skills, one is melee which thus again has nothing to do with my point, and the other is a utility that is used at plus range and not at 28m. Nothing about shadow barrier is "free" compared to the avenues other classes have to take to gain said buffs. NBs play around it and maintains it differently, that is all. Spare me your hyperbole and assumptions of where my opinion is coming from. You are not even remotely on point to what i was even initially talking about.

"Bro"

Micah_Bayer

thankyourat wrote: »

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Lexxypwns wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

Classes have counters. You either aren't playing yours correctly or you're not on a counter.

Example, MagDK, Stamplar and Magplar.

Otherwise it's all about catching someone slipping. Shields don't mean anything if they're not up. Stall their resources.

I agree the only problem is a lot of sorcs are wearing double sustain sets so it's impossible to do that now. I'm pretty sure it's cp and sets that's making shields unbalanced. Really if they just get rid of bastion shields would probably balance themselves out or either make a damage shield cap out at like 8k.

If you're wearing 2 sustain sets you are losing out on utility or damage, that's a fair trade off. These sorcs still have a painfully small burst window to get off their telegraphed damage. Sure, maybe you can't burst them if they just turtle and stack shields but they also can't put out threatening burst if you're built correctly. Poisons counter sustain sets anyway.

The sorcs that are "scary" are running either a damage or utility set. This gives them more effective burst or a longer burst window respectively, both of which allow the sorc to actually mount threatening offense.

I agree for 1v1 that sorc isnt scary at all. open world though it's incredibly strong maybe a little too survibable.especially if you fight multiple sorcs like this. You also can get pretty good damage with double sustain sets you can still get around 40k magicka and close to 3000 spell damage which is plenty of damage if you fight someone who is less survivalble. fighting multiple sorcs like this made me switch from necro to trasmutation in open world for more survivability because i never encounter just one sorc and multiple curses was hitting me too hard for the survivability they had. I think that's what makes sorcs very strong. They get much stronger the more sorcs there are. I think that's why majority of the player base is sorcs and where all the complaints come from.

Also i don't fell like 1v1 is away to judge balance because i can make a magblade build for 1v1 and it would probably seem like the best class in the game but open world it isn't nearly as good.

WHAT you get 3k spell dmg and 40k mag with 2 sustain sets? Tell me how. I have both dmg sets and my spell dmg is 3200 with 41k magicka. I am missing out.

Micah_Bayer

Defilted wrote: »

What if they only allowed 1 castable shield at a time for any class? So you could not use Hadrened ward and light armor shield at the same time. Procs and items abilities would stay the same and stack with whatever castable shield you had on currently.


I am also completely fine with leaving how it is. I battle sorcs all the time in Cyro and yes some of them are extremely hard to kill but that is not becasue they are stacking shields. It is normally becasue they are better at keeping you at a distance and line of sighting you. They also have great burst. I do not think all srocs are alike as I will in one instance easy kill a sorc and in the next find it very hard to keep up with one.

If you change the class there will be just another class or ability that good players know how to use that will make others angry and those people will call for a nerf.

I also do agree that sorcs are strong, but I do not think they are across the board OP.

The problem with the upper part of what you're saying is that zos would have to balance hots such as you can only have one heal at a time. Rally and vigor plus other heals are very strong. It would only be fair if magicka has it's defense nerfed that Stam has the same nerf even though still Stam would be stronger than magicka in the nerf. The bottom part I agree with 100% though

thankyourat

Lord-Otto wrote: »

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exeeter702 wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Yeah, it's really difficult to fire a bow so fast it can't be reactively dodged. To have an AoE CC that eliminates block and dodge. To get 5k resistances for free, also 8% max mag and easy Necro pet with Minor Maim. To have a sustain skill that doesn't eat a resource and can't be interrupted. To be able to cloak away and giggle about the twenty force missed frags heading your way.

Yeah, really difficult. Twice as any other class. Totally reasonable statement without any bias or delusions. Ahaaa.

No one is dismissing the strengths of magnb. You naming then doesnt do anything here.

Bow proc has roughly the same projectile speed as frags, siphoning eats an initial resource of the very resource you are using it for, and you are getting it back i n full aftet 15 seconds. Fear is strong yes. Free resistences? What are you talking about? Shadow barrier is mag nbs source of the majors, just as sorcs get it with form, dk with spikes, temps with focus and wardens with frost cloak. The only way a nb can compete with the duration is if they sit in heavy armor or run path.

The classes do not exist in a vacuum here. There plenty of variables that influence why class x has tool y and no one else.

Bro, the bow is wayyy faster than frags. Siphoning is free, unless you die in 15 seconds. Shadow Barrier is a passive. All other classes need to slot a skill. And without heavy, I bet you can manage to hit Fear or Surprise Attack every five seconds.

What I'm getting at is that you often hear magblades crying how difficult they are to play. BS. Pure BS. They have buffs as passives, giving you room for utility skills. They also get easy sustain and special buffs like Necro and Maim. Magblade is in fact easy mode these days if you pick your battles carefully.

The bow proc from the merciless resolve has a cast time so there is no way it's faster than frags. Merciless resolve is the slowest moving projectile in the game you can cc break fear and block merciless every time. It also makes a loud noise that basically screams block now. But that's kind of balanced because it has the highest tooltip damage in the game. Also as a magblade you need all those utility slots that your passives free up so you don't get instantly wrecked. What makes magblade strong in 1v1 is most classes are melee builds so it's difficult to pressure a magblade and the ranged class relies on burst damage meaning after a burst a if the magblade survives his hots will fill up his health. Before the sorc can burst again. I get so many messages from players almost everyday asking for help playing magblade. It is a very unforgiving playstyle

thankyourat

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

show previous quotes

thankyourat wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

Classes have counters. You either aren't playing yours correctly or you're not on a counter.

Example, MagDK, Stamplar and Magplar.

Otherwise it's all about catching someone slipping. Shields don't mean anything if they're not up. Stall their resources.

I agree the only problem is a lot of sorcs are wearing double sustain sets so it's impossible to do that now. I'm pretty sure it's cp and sets that's making shields unbalanced. Really if they just get rid of bastion shields would probably balance themselves out or either make a damage shield cap out at like 8k.

If you're wearing 2 sustain sets you are losing out on utility or damage, that's a fair trade off. These sorcs still have a painfully small burst window to get off their telegraphed damage. Sure, maybe you can't burst them if they just turtle and stack shields but they also can't put out threatening burst if you're built correctly. Poisons counter sustain sets anyway.

The sorcs that are "scary" are running either a damage or utility set. This gives them more effective burst or a longer burst window respectively, both of which allow the sorc to actually mount threatening offense.

I agree for 1v1 that sorc isnt scary at all. open world though it's incredibly strong maybe a little too survibable.especially if you fight multiple sorcs like this. You also can get pretty good damage with double sustain sets you can still get around 40k magicka and close to 3000 spell damage which is plenty of damage if you fight someone who is less survivalble. fighting multiple sorcs like this made me switch from necro to trasmutation in open world for more survivability because i never encounter just one sorc and multiple curses was hitting me too hard for the survivability they had. I think that's what makes sorcs very strong. They get much stronger the more sorcs there are. I think that's why majority of the player base is sorcs and where all the complaints come from.

Also i don't fell like 1v1 is away to judge balance because i can make a magblade build for 1v1 and it would probably seem like the best class in the game but open world it isn't nearly as good.

WHAT you get 3k spell dmg and 40k mag with 2 sustain sets? Tell me how. I have both dmg sets and my spell dmg is 3200 with 41k magicka. I am missing out.

If you use 5 shackle breaker, 5 amberplasm, 1 vma destro it will put you at around 40k magicka and 3k spell damage and you will also have the stamina sustain of a champion

Joy_Division

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

show previous quotes

thankyourat wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

Classes have counters. You either aren't playing yours correctly or you're not on a counter.

Example, MagDK, Stamplar and Magplar.

Otherwise it's all about catching someone slipping. Shields don't mean anything if they're not up. Stall their resources.

I agree the only problem is a lot of sorcs are wearing double sustain sets so it's impossible to do that now. I'm pretty sure it's cp and sets that's making shields unbalanced. Really if they just get rid of bastion shields would probably balance themselves out or either make a damage shield cap out at like 8k.

If you're wearing 2 sustain sets you are losing out on utility or damage, that's a fair trade off. These sorcs still have a painfully small burst window to get off their telegraphed damage. Sure, maybe you can't burst them if they just turtle and stack shields but they also can't put out threatening burst if you're built correctly. Poisons counter sustain sets anyway.

The sorcs that are "scary" are running either a damage or utility set. This gives them more effective burst or a longer burst window respectively, both of which allow the sorc to actually mount threatening offense.

I agree for 1v1 that sorc isnt scary at all. open world though it's incredibly strong maybe a little too survibable.especially if you fight multiple sorcs like this. You also can get pretty good damage with double sustain sets you can still get around 40k magicka and close to 3000 spell damage which is plenty of damage if you fight someone who is less survivalble. fighting multiple sorcs like this made me switch from necro to trasmutation in open world for more survivability because i never encounter just one sorc and multiple curses was hitting me too hard for the survivability they had. I think that's what makes sorcs very strong. They get much stronger the more sorcs there are. I think that's why majority of the player base is sorcs and where all the complaints come from.

Also i don't fell like 1v1 is away to judge balance because i can make a magblade build for 1v1 and it would probably seem like the best class in the game but open world it isn't nearly as good.

WHAT you get 3k spell dmg and 40k mag with 2 sustain sets? Tell me how. I have both dmg sets and my spell dmg is 3200 with 41k magicka. I am missing out.

When people cite their stats, it's always with every possible buff under ideal conditions. Ego takes precedence over clarity.

Takes-No-Prisoner

Never really understood that. Ideal conditions don't or never show up very often. It's actually more detrimental to giving other people advice if they put their ego first. Gives an illusion of a false ceiling weaker players may never reach.

Consistency(gear), practicality(slotted abilities) are the back bones of a solid build. Every outside source of buffs should add, not subtract from the build.

thankyourat

Joy_Division wrote: »

show previous quotes

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

Classes have counters. You either aren't playing yours correctly or you're not on a counter.

Example, MagDK, Stamplar and Magplar.

Otherwise it's all about catching someone slipping. Shields don't mean anything if they're not up. Stall their resources.

I agree the only problem is a lot of sorcs are wearing double sustain sets so it's impossible to do that now. I'm pretty sure it's cp and sets that's making shields unbalanced. Really if they just get rid of bastion shields would probably balance themselves out or either make a damage shield cap out at like 8k.

If you're wearing 2 sustain sets you are losing out on utility or damage, that's a fair trade off. These sorcs still have a painfully small burst window to get off their telegraphed damage. Sure, maybe you can't burst them if they just turtle and stack shields but they also can't put out threatening burst if you're built correctly. Poisons counter sustain sets anyway.

The sorcs that are "scary" are running either a damage or utility set. This gives them more effective burst or a longer burst window respectively, both of which allow the sorc to actually mount threatening offense.

I agree for 1v1 that sorc isnt scary at all. open world though it's incredibly strong maybe a little too survibable.especially if you fight multiple sorcs like this. You also can get pretty good damage with double sustain sets you can still get around 40k magicka and close to 3000 spell damage which is plenty of damage if you fight someone who is less survivalble. fighting multiple sorcs like this made me switch from necro to trasmutation in open world for more survivability because i never encounter just one sorc and multiple curses was hitting me too hard for the survivability they had. I think that's what makes sorcs very strong. They get much stronger the more sorcs there are. I think that's why majority of the player base is sorcs and where all the complaints come from.

Also i don't fell like 1v1 is away to judge balance because i can make a magblade build for 1v1 and it would probably seem like the best class in the game but open world it isn't nearly as good.

WHAT you get 3k spell dmg and 40k mag with 2 sustain sets? Tell me how. I have both dmg sets and my spell dmg is 3200 with 41k magicka. I am missing out.

When people cite their stats, it's always with every possible buff under ideal conditions. Ego takes precedence over clarity.

Lol just major sorcery buff. Which will be active 100% of the time anyway

Waffennacht

1 shield

41k mag
3.4k spell DMG
2k mag regen

Permablocking

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