Magic sorcs are not op . Sort your build out

Solariken

Waffennacht wrote: »

.

Solariken wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

@leepalmer95 that may be what they do idk I'm no sorc expert, but it's kind of irrelevant because the point still stands that a nearly-maxed Healing Ward plus a Hardened Ward is 6 seconds of near invincibility versus 1 player (and still ridiculously strong versus multiple).

Nope. Keep in mind that the heal doesn't go off till the shield expires, and its strength scales with what remains of the shield. The counter play to healing ward is to apply pressure when it is applied at low health to deny a big heal and force a mistake. A well placed CC here will end the fight, but it relies on the aggressor having sufficient damage. Hardened Ward->healing Ward isn't over performing at all, not any more than vigor->dodge->rally. Whats over performing is harness magicka.

Sandman929 wrote: »

Sorcs aren't OP, shields are. Make them crittable and all is well.

Shields cannot be crit because they themselves cannot crit, and they also do not have any resistances. Let them have resistances and be able to crit and sure. Otherwise the amount of damage they take would be too high for them to be viable,

I think you are missing the point - it's not the heal component that's strong with Healing Ward - it's the size of the shield at low health. All magicka classes can heal up passively while they go offensive after stacking Healing Ward with another shield. The heal from Healing Ward is just icing on top.

If you front-load a shield like Hardened, you can soak just about any burst rotation in the game and still have some HP left, at which point you break free then cast Healing Ward and then another shield - now you are the incredible Hulk and can go ham on your target without any fear whatsoever.

My ONLY hope against a good sorc is lining up my CC plus burst at the same instant all shields drop, and even then it's only if they make a mistake and don't recast Hardened.

Which is why nerfing Oblivion Damage Glyphs was such a poor decision

Except those glyphs were way more painful on my medium armor builds than on any of my shield users. : /

Minno

Solariken wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

.

Solariken wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

@leepalmer95 that may be what they do idk I'm no sorc expert, but it's kind of irrelevant because the point still stands that a nearly-maxed Healing Ward plus a Hardened Ward is 6 seconds of near invincibility versus 1 player (and still ridiculously strong versus multiple).

Nope. Keep in mind that the heal doesn't go off till the shield expires, and its strength scales with what remains of the shield. The counter play to healing ward is to apply pressure when it is applied at low health to deny a big heal and force a mistake. A well placed CC here will end the fight, but it relies on the aggressor having sufficient damage. Hardened Ward->healing Ward isn't over performing at all, not any more than vigor->dodge->rally. Whats over performing is harness magicka.

Sandman929 wrote: »

Sorcs aren't OP, shields are. Make them crittable and all is well.

Shields cannot be crit because they themselves cannot crit, and they also do not have any resistances. Let them have resistances and be able to crit and sure. Otherwise the amount of damage they take would be too high for them to be viable,

I think you are missing the point - it's not the heal component that's strong with Healing Ward - it's the size of the shield at low health. All magicka classes can heal up passively while they go offensive after stacking Healing Ward with another shield. The heal from Healing Ward is just icing on top.

If you front-load a shield like Hardened, you can soak just about any burst rotation in the game and still have some HP left, at which point you break free then cast Healing Ward and then another shield - now you are the incredible Hulk and can go ham on your target without any fear whatsoever.

My ONLY hope against a good sorc is lining up my CC plus burst at the same instant all shields drop, and even then it's only if they make a mistake and don't recast Hardened.

Which is why nerfing Oblivion Damage Glyphs was such a poor decision

Except those glyphs were way more painful on my medium armor builds than on any of my shield users. : /

And impacted those of us that cant move like a Sorc but wear LA.

thankyourat

Lexxypwns wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

Classes have counters. You either aren't playing yours correctly or you're not on a counter.

Example, MagDK, Stamplar and Magplar.

Otherwise it's all about catching someone slipping. Shields don't mean anything if they're not up. Stall their resources.

I agree the only problem is a lot of sorcs are wearing double sustain sets so it's impossible to do that now. I'm pretty sure it's cp and sets that's making shields unbalanced. Really if they just get rid of bastion shields would probably balance themselves out or either make a damage shield cap out at like 8k.

If you're wearing 2 sustain sets you are losing out on utility or damage, that's a fair trade off. These sorcs still have a painfully small burst window to get off their telegraphed damage. Sure, maybe you can't burst them if they just turtle and stack shields but they also can't put out threatening burst if you're built correctly. Poisons counter sustain sets anyway.

The sorcs that are "scary" are running either a damage or utility set. This gives them more effective burst or a longer burst window respectively, both of which allow the sorc to actually mount threatening offense.

I agree for 1v1 that sorc isnt scary at all. open world though it's incredibly strong maybe a little too survibable.especially if you fight multiple sorcs like this. You also can get pretty good damage with double sustain sets you can still get around 40k magicka and close to 3000 spell damage which is plenty of damage if you fight someone who is less survivalble. fighting multiple sorcs like this made me switch from necro to trasmutation in open world for more survivability because i never encounter just one sorc and multiple curses was hitting me too hard for the survivability they had. I think that's what makes sorcs very strong. They get much stronger the more sorcs there are. I think that's why majority of the player base is sorcs and where all the complaints come from.

Also i don't fell like 1v1 is away to judge balance because i can make a magblade build for 1v1 and it would probably seem like the best class in the game but open world it isn't nearly as good.

Waffennacht

thankyourat wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

Classes have counters. You either aren't playing yours correctly or you're not on a counter.

Example, MagDK, Stamplar and Magplar.

Otherwise it's all about catching someone slipping. Shields don't mean anything if they're not up. Stall their resources.

I agree the only problem is a lot of sorcs are wearing double sustain sets so it's impossible to do that now. I'm pretty sure it's cp and sets that's making shields unbalanced. Really if they just get rid of bastion shields would probably balance themselves out or either make a damage shield cap out at like 8k.

If you're wearing 2 sustain sets you are losing out on utility or damage, that's a fair trade off. These sorcs still have a painfully small burst window to get off their telegraphed damage. Sure, maybe you can't burst them if they just turtle and stack shields but they also can't put out threatening burst if you're built correctly. Poisons counter sustain sets anyway.

The sorcs that are "scary" are running either a damage or utility set. This gives them more effective burst or a longer burst window respectively, both of which allow the sorc to actually mount threatening offense.

I agree for 1v1 that sorc isnt scary at all. open world though it's incredibly strong maybe a little too survibable.especially if you fight multiple sorcs like this. You also can get pretty good damage with double sustain sets you can still get around 40k magicka and close to 3000 spell damage which is plenty of damage if you fight someone who is less survivalble. fighting multiple sorcs like this made me switch from necro to trasmutation in open world for more survivability because i never encounter just one sorc and multiple curses was hitting me too hard for the survivability they had. I think that's what makes sorcs very strong. They get much stronger the more sorcs there are. I think that's why majority of the player base is sorcs and where all the complaints come from.

Also i don't fell like 1v1 is away to judge balance because i can make a magblade build for 1v1 and it would probably seem like the best class in the game but open world it isn't nearly as good.

In what ratio of players should the game be balanced around?

Derra

KingJ wrote: »

Sorc is the strongest class right now to say other wise is a bold face lie.Even sorc admit it.

I have no problem with sorc but to say there not strong is a lie.

Ranged magblade is stronger if you do the same things a sorc does.

Not as good in escapes or surviving. Better at fighting.

Derra

Waffennacht wrote: »

.

Solariken wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

@leepalmer95 that may be what they do idk I'm no sorc expert, but it's kind of irrelevant because the point still stands that a nearly-maxed Healing Ward plus a Hardened Ward is 6 seconds of near invincibility versus 1 player (and still ridiculously strong versus multiple).

Nope. Keep in mind that the heal doesn't go off till the shield expires, and its strength scales with what remains of the shield. The counter play to healing ward is to apply pressure when it is applied at low health to deny a big heal and force a mistake. A well placed CC here will end the fight, but it relies on the aggressor having sufficient damage. Hardened Ward->healing Ward isn't over performing at all, not any more than vigor->dodge->rally. Whats over performing is harness magicka.

Sandman929 wrote: »

Sorcs aren't OP, shields are. Make them crittable and all is well.

Shields cannot be crit because they themselves cannot crit, and they also do not have any resistances. Let them have resistances and be able to crit and sure. Otherwise the amount of damage they take would be too high for them to be viable,

I think you are missing the point - it's not the heal component that's strong with Healing Ward - it's the size of the shield at low health. All magicka classes can heal up passively while they go offensive after stacking Healing Ward with another shield. The heal from Healing Ward is just icing on top.

If you front-load a shield like Hardened, you can soak just about any burst rotation in the game and still have some HP left, at which point you break free then cast Healing Ward and then another shield - now you are the incredible Hulk and can go ham on your target without any fear whatsoever.

My ONLY hope against a good sorc is lining up my CC plus burst at the same instant all shields drop, and even then it's only if they make a mistake and don't recast Hardened.

Which is why nerfing Oblivion Damage Glyphs was such a poor decision

It was a great decision bc no counterplay gameplay sucks.
Obliviondmg shouldn´t be in the game as a whole.

Neither should be stacking shields. Or absorb + shield for that matter.

Waffennacht

Derra wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

.

Solariken wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

@leepalmer95 that may be what they do idk I'm no sorc expert, but it's kind of irrelevant because the point still stands that a nearly-maxed Healing Ward plus a Hardened Ward is 6 seconds of near invincibility versus 1 player (and still ridiculously strong versus multiple).

Nope. Keep in mind that the heal doesn't go off till the shield expires, and its strength scales with what remains of the shield. The counter play to healing ward is to apply pressure when it is applied at low health to deny a big heal and force a mistake. A well placed CC here will end the fight, but it relies on the aggressor having sufficient damage. Hardened Ward->healing Ward isn't over performing at all, not any more than vigor->dodge->rally. Whats over performing is harness magicka.

Sandman929 wrote: »

Sorcs aren't OP, shields are. Make them crittable and all is well.

Shields cannot be crit because they themselves cannot crit, and they also do not have any resistances. Let them have resistances and be able to crit and sure. Otherwise the amount of damage they take would be too high for them to be viable,

I think you are missing the point - it's not the heal component that's strong with Healing Ward - it's the size of the shield at low health. All magicka classes can heal up passively while they go offensive after stacking Healing Ward with another shield. The heal from Healing Ward is just icing on top.

If you front-load a shield like Hardened, you can soak just about any burst rotation in the game and still have some HP left, at which point you break free then cast Healing Ward and then another shield - now you are the incredible Hulk and can go ham on your target without any fear whatsoever.

My ONLY hope against a good sorc is lining up my CC plus burst at the same instant all shields drop, and even then it's only if they make a mistake and don't recast Hardened.

Which is why nerfing Oblivion Damage Glyphs was such a poor decision

It was a great decision bc no counterplay gameplay sucks.
Obliviondmg shouldn´t be in the game as a whole.

Neither should be stacking shields. Or absorb + shield for that matter.

But... They are!

OdinForge

Biro123 wrote: »

I think most complaints come from stamblades who fail with the gank then realise that they can't finish them off cos shields.

I suspect they also subconsciously subscribe to the gameplay common in other MMOs whereby the cloth caster is the natural prey of the stealther.

This probably has something to do with it, nuking gankers as sorc is very easy.

I remember as a kid back in the old-school runescape days, the old three way combat triangle. Where rangers were good at ganking mages, and mages were good at countering warriors and warriors were good at killing rangers. It was a general rule of thumb but not a guarantee.

ESO is very different from those types of games.

Lexxypwns

thankyourat wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

Classes have counters. You either aren't playing yours correctly or you're not on a counter.

Example, MagDK, Stamplar and Magplar.

Otherwise it's all about catching someone slipping. Shields don't mean anything if they're not up. Stall their resources.

I agree the only problem is a lot of sorcs are wearing double sustain sets so it's impossible to do that now. I'm pretty sure it's cp and sets that's making shields unbalanced. Really if they just get rid of bastion shields would probably balance themselves out or either make a damage shield cap out at like 8k.

If you're wearing 2 sustain sets you are losing out on utility or damage, that's a fair trade off. These sorcs still have a painfully small burst window to get off their telegraphed damage. Sure, maybe you can't burst them if they just turtle and stack shields but they also can't put out threatening burst if you're built correctly. Poisons counter sustain sets anyway.

The sorcs that are "scary" are running either a damage or utility set. This gives them more effective burst or a longer burst window respectively, both of which allow the sorc to actually mount threatening offense.

I agree for 1v1 that sorc isnt scary at all. open world though it's incredibly strong maybe a little too survibable.especially if you fight multiple sorcs like this. You also can get pretty good damage with double sustain sets you can still get around 40k magicka and close to 3000 spell damage which is plenty of damage if you fight someone who is less survivalble. fighting multiple sorcs like this made me switch from necro to trasmutation in open world for more survivability because i never encounter just one sorc and multiple curses was hitting me too hard for the survivability they had. I think that's what makes sorcs very strong. They get much stronger the more sorcs there are. I think that's why majority of the player base is sorcs and where all the complaints come from.

Also i don't fell like 1v1 is away to judge balance because i can make a magblade build for 1v1 and it would probably seem like the best class in the game but open world it isn't nearly as good.

Sorc excels at destroying squishy targets. Since we are already in a low TTK meta, running a squishy build is a bad decision. The sorc burst is too telegraphed and ranged builds can be too easily LoS'd for a Sorc who is inferior to you in skill to be too much of a threat in any reasonable combat scenario(of course against 8 people the ranged DPS that you can't pressure us too strong).

Most specs in the game synergies best with itself and becomes exponentially stronger the more of them you have. Templars stack pol/potl. Sorcs stack curses, layer negates. Wardens rotate healing trees. NBs have combined stealth burst(bombs or ganks). This is a bad example of determining if a class is over performing since it indicates that only DK isn't

Biro123

thankyourat wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

Classes have counters. You either aren't playing yours correctly or you're not on a counter.

Example, MagDK, Stamplar and Magplar.

Otherwise it's all about catching someone slipping. Shields don't mean anything if they're not up. Stall their resources.

I agree the only problem is a lot of sorcs are wearing double sustain sets so it's impossible to do that now. I'm pretty sure it's cp and sets that's making shields unbalanced. Really if they just get rid of bastion shields would probably balance themselves out or either make a damage shield cap out at like 8k.

If you're wearing 2 sustain sets you are losing out on utility or damage, that's a fair trade off. These sorcs still have a painfully small burst window to get off their telegraphed damage. Sure, maybe you can't burst them if they just turtle and stack shields but they also can't put out threatening burst if you're built correctly. Poisons counter sustain sets anyway.

The sorcs that are "scary" are running either a damage or utility set. This gives them more effective burst or a longer burst window respectively, both of which allow the sorc to actually mount threatening offense.

I agree for 1v1 that sorc isnt scary at all. open world though it's incredibly strong maybe a little too survibable.especially if you fight multiple sorcs like this. You also can get pretty good damage with double sustain sets you can still get around 40k magicka and close to 3000 spell damage which is plenty of damage if you fight someone who is less survivalble. fighting multiple sorcs like this made me switch from necro to trasmutation in open world for more survivability because i never encounter just one sorc and multiple curses was hitting me too hard for the survivability they had. I think that's what makes sorcs very strong. They get much stronger the more sorcs there are. I think that's why majority of the player base is sorcs and where all the complaints come from.

Also i don't fell like 1v1 is away to judge balance because i can make a magblade build for 1v1 and it would probably seem like the best class in the game but open world it isn't nearly as good.

I think your numbers may be out. Been experimenting recently with a specific sustain set (and drinks) and necropotence, and struggle to reach 40k mag, with mage mundus. This us totally neglecting spell power, and leaving poor health and Stam. Idk how you can get those stats with 2 sustain sets on a viable build

Koolio

Biro123 wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

Classes have counters. You either aren't playing yours correctly or you're not on a counter.

Example, MagDK, Stamplar and Magplar.

Otherwise it's all about catching someone slipping. Shields don't mean anything if they're not up. Stall their resources.

I agree the only problem is a lot of sorcs are wearing double sustain sets so it's impossible to do that now. I'm pretty sure it's cp and sets that's making shields unbalanced. Really if they just get rid of bastion shields would probably balance themselves out or either make a damage shield cap out at like 8k.

If you're wearing 2 sustain sets you are losing out on utility or damage, that's a fair trade off. These sorcs still have a painfully small burst window to get off their telegraphed damage. Sure, maybe you can't burst them if they just turtle and stack shields but they also can't put out threatening burst if you're built correctly. Poisons counter sustain sets anyway.

The sorcs that are "scary" are running either a damage or utility set. This gives them more effective burst or a longer burst window respectively, both of which allow the sorc to actually mount threatening offense.

I agree for 1v1 that sorc isnt scary at all. open world though it's incredibly strong maybe a little too survibable.especially if you fight multiple sorcs like this. You also can get pretty good damage with double sustain sets you can still get around 40k magicka and close to 3000 spell damage which is plenty of damage if you fight someone who is less survivalble. fighting multiple sorcs like this made me switch from necro to trasmutation in open world for more survivability because i never encounter just one sorc and multiple curses was hitting me too hard for the survivability they had. I think that's what makes sorcs very strong. They get much stronger the more sorcs there are. I think that's why majority of the player base is sorcs and where all the complaints come from.

Also i don't fell like 1v1 is away to judge balance because i can make a magblade build for 1v1 and it would probably seem like the best class in the game but open world it isn't nearly as good.

I think your numbers may be out. Been experimenting recently with a specific sustain set (and drinks) and necropotence, and struggle to reach 40k mag, with mage mundus. This us totally neglecting spell power, and leaving poor health and Stam. Idk how you can get those stats with 2 sustain sets on a viable build

I normally run 2 sustain sets and have 40k max and 2900spell 56% crit before glyph proc.

Biro123

How are your other stats?

I mean, I'm experimenting with willows path/ drinks/ invigorating traits.. But really, I mean really struggling with main stats.

SanTii.92

Sorcs will always be pug stompers, so threads complaining will always be there. Just get used to it.

thankyourat

Waffennacht wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

Classes have counters. You either aren't playing yours correctly or you're not on a counter.

Example, MagDK, Stamplar and Magplar.

Otherwise it's all about catching someone slipping. Shields don't mean anything if they're not up. Stall their resources.

I agree the only problem is a lot of sorcs are wearing double sustain sets so it's impossible to do that now. I'm pretty sure it's cp and sets that's making shields unbalanced. Really if they just get rid of bastion shields would probably balance themselves out or either make a damage shield cap out at like 8k.

If you're wearing 2 sustain sets you are losing out on utility or damage, that's a fair trade off. These sorcs still have a painfully small burst window to get off their telegraphed damage. Sure, maybe you can't burst them if they just turtle and stack shields but they also can't put out threatening burst if you're built correctly. Poisons counter sustain sets anyway.

The sorcs that are "scary" are running either a damage or utility set. This gives them more effective burst or a longer burst window respectively, both of which allow the sorc to actually mount threatening offense.

I agree for 1v1 that sorc isnt scary at all. open world though it's incredibly strong maybe a little too survibable.especially if you fight multiple sorcs like this. You also can get pretty good damage with double sustain sets you can still get around 40k magicka and close to 3000 spell damage which is plenty of damage if you fight someone who is less survivalble. fighting multiple sorcs like this made me switch from necro to trasmutation in open world for more survivability because i never encounter just one sorc and multiple curses was hitting me too hard for the survivability they had. I think that's what makes sorcs very strong. They get much stronger the more sorcs there are. I think that's why majority of the player base is sorcs and where all the complaints come from.

Also i don't fell like 1v1 is away to judge balance because i can make a magblade build for 1v1 and it would probably seem like the best class in the game but open world it isn't nearly as good.

In what ratio of players should the game be balanced around?

I think 4v4 is a good number to balance around with giving every class abilities to where the will be good solo while also having a roll in group play. A group of 4 sorcs is way to strong because of their great kiting capabilities and tankiness combined with unavoidable damage and an execute that's over performing. Sorc is very easy to counter but multiple sorcs are impossible to counter its the number one xv1 class at the moment in my opinion.

Koolio

Biro123 wrote: »

How are your other stats?

I mean, I'm experimenting with willows path/ drinks/ invigorating traits.. But really, I mean really struggling with main stats.

39k max 2700 spell 4700 recovery (lich+potion) 11k max stam 700 stam recovery 56% crit 15k health in pve 2k Inpen 15k resist.
This is lich front bar iceheart and eyes of Mara backbar. Resto staff ultimate cost 73 ultimate.

Koolio

This is what I typically duel my friends with.

thankyourat

Lexxypwns wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

Classes have counters. You either aren't playing yours correctly or you're not on a counter.

Example, MagDK, Stamplar and Magplar.

Otherwise it's all about catching someone slipping. Shields don't mean anything if they're not up. Stall their resources.

I agree the only problem is a lot of sorcs are wearing double sustain sets so it's impossible to do that now. I'm pretty sure it's cp and sets that's making shields unbalanced. Really if they just get rid of bastion shields would probably balance themselves out or either make a damage shield cap out at like 8k.

If you're wearing 2 sustain sets you are losing out on utility or damage, that's a fair trade off. These sorcs still have a painfully small burst window to get off their telegraphed damage. Sure, maybe you can't burst them if they just turtle and stack shields but they also can't put out threatening burst if you're built correctly. Poisons counter sustain sets anyway.

The sorcs that are "scary" are running either a damage or utility set. This gives them more effective burst or a longer burst window respectively, both of which allow the sorc to actually mount threatening offense.

I agree for 1v1 that sorc isnt scary at all. open world though it's incredibly strong maybe a little too survibable.especially if you fight multiple sorcs like this. You also can get pretty good damage with double sustain sets you can still get around 40k magicka and close to 3000 spell damage which is plenty of damage if you fight someone who is less survivalble. fighting multiple sorcs like this made me switch from necro to trasmutation in open world for more survivability because i never encounter just one sorc and multiple curses was hitting me too hard for the survivability they had. I think that's what makes sorcs very strong. They get much stronger the more sorcs there are. I think that's why majority of the player base is sorcs and where all the complaints come from.

Also i don't fell like 1v1 is away to judge balance because i can make a magblade build for 1v1 and it would probably seem like the best class in the game but open world it isn't nearly as good.

Sorc excels at destroying squishy targets. Since we are already in a low TTK meta, running a squishy build is a bad decision. The sorc burst is too telegraphed and ranged builds can be too easily LoS'd for a Sorc who is inferior to you in skill to be too much of a threat in any reasonable combat scenario(of course against 8 people the ranged DPS that you can't pressure us too strong).

Most specs in the game synergies best with itself and becomes exponentially stronger the more of them you have. Templars stack pol/potl. Sorcs stack curses, layer negates. Wardens rotate healing trees. NBs have combined stealth burst(bombs or ganks). This is a bad example of determining if a class is over performing since it indicates that only DK isn't

The only thing is i can disengage most other classes and then engage again you can't really do that with mag sorcs on top of that most classes damage is avoidable where as a large chuck of sorcs damage is not. Along with you will instantly die if you get to 20% health. I think only templar is similar i consider it the other Xv1 class that's why you see so many Templars and sorcs in pvp in my opinion. Nightblades are usually easy to deal with because i use detect pots and if in medium they will die to one good burst combo. Anything in stamina is easy to deal with really

ak_pvp

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

Classes have counters. You either aren't playing yours correctly or you're not on a counter.

Example, MagDK, Stamplar and Magplar.

Otherwise it's all about catching someone slipping. Shields don't mean anything if they're not up. Stall their resources.

FTR, non of those classes are a hard counter to a magsorc. MDK/Mplar doesn't have the burst to get though a sorcs shields, nor the mobility to lock them down. Running them of resources is very difficult. On Mplar you can javelin them or gapclose, but its not a good way to tackle them, since they have no reliable stun or burst. On MDK there is worse mobility, no good gapcloser, and the stun is broken very quickly, and they can streak away from roots.

Both NBs, stamplar and warden are pretty good counters with high burst and nice CC. Especially NBs with fear.

Waffennacht

.

thankyourat wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

Classes have counters. You either aren't playing yours correctly or you're not on a counter.

Example, MagDK, Stamplar and Magplar.

Otherwise it's all about catching someone slipping. Shields don't mean anything if they're not up. Stall their resources.

I agree the only problem is a lot of sorcs are wearing double sustain sets so it's impossible to do that now. I'm pretty sure it's cp and sets that's making shields unbalanced. Really if they just get rid of bastion shields would probably balance themselves out or either make a damage shield cap out at like 8k.

If you're wearing 2 sustain sets you are losing out on utility or damage, that's a fair trade off. These sorcs still have a painfully small burst window to get off their telegraphed damage. Sure, maybe you can't burst them if they just turtle and stack shields but they also can't put out threatening burst if you're built correctly. Poisons counter sustain sets anyway.

The sorcs that are "scary" are running either a damage or utility set. This gives them more effective burst or a longer burst window respectively, both of which allow the sorc to actually mount threatening offense.

I agree for 1v1 that sorc isnt scary at all. open world though it's incredibly strong maybe a little too survibable.especially if you fight multiple sorcs like this. You also can get pretty good damage with double sustain sets you can still get around 40k magicka and close to 3000 spell damage which is plenty of damage if you fight someone who is less survivalble. fighting multiple sorcs like this made me switch from necro to trasmutation in open world for more survivability because i never encounter just one sorc and multiple curses was hitting me too hard for the survivability they had. I think that's what makes sorcs very strong. They get much stronger the more sorcs there are. I think that's why majority of the player base is sorcs and where all the complaints come from.

Also i don't fell like 1v1 is away to judge balance because i can make a magblade build for 1v1 and it would probably seem like the best class in the game but open world it isn't nearly as good.

In what ratio of players should the game be balanced around?

I think 4v4 is a good number to balance around with giving every class abilities to where the will be good solo while also having a roll in group play. A group of 4 sorcs is way to strong because of their great kiting capabilities and tankiness combined with unavoidable damage and an execute that's over performing. Sorc is very easy to counter but multiple sorcs are impossible to counter its the number one xv1 class at the moment in my opinion.

For the first time ever someone gave a solid response as to what they feel the game should be balanced around.

Though I may or may not agree with your assessment, you sir, get an awesome.

exeeter702

Derra wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

Sorc is the strongest class right now to say other wise is a bold face lie.Even sorc admit it.

I have no problem with sorc but to say there not strong is a lie.

Ranged magblade is stronger if you do the same things a sorc does.

leepalmer95

exeeter702 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

Sorc is the strongest class right now to say other wise is a bold face lie.Even sorc admit it.

I have no problem with sorc but to say there not strong is a lie.

Ranged magblade is stronger if you do the same things a sorc does.

Its true a magblade will destroy a mag sorc in a 1v1.

leepalmer95

Throw on heavy and get 25k~ hp and suddenly mag sorc burst isn't scary at all. They're great vs squishys but theres a limit to it's telegraphed burst dmg even with dw.

Also @Solariken There are ways to pressure sorcs if you get them low and they shield stack. Shields are very expensive and when they're that low, have some dots on them and spam executes, they'll use a lot more resources than you.

If i get a sorc low on my stam nb an injection and execute spam is enough damage to take shields away instantly forcing them to recast a lot and most of the time they lose the heal from healing ward.

Koolio wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

How are your other stats?

I mean, I'm experimenting with willows path/ drinks/ invigorating traits.. But really, I mean really struggling with main stats.

39k max 2700 spell 4700 recovery (lich+potion) 11k max stam 700 stam recovery 56% crit 15k health in pve 2k Inpen 15k resist.
This is lich front bar iceheart and eyes of Mara backbar. Resto staff ultimate cost 73 ultimate.

Your problem here is that both your max stamina and stam recovery is low and i'd have to cc you 2-3 times and that would be it. Also no point using lich proc as your recovery either and most of the time that won't be up. Also best to not use a pot when using base stats.

exeeter702

leepalmer95 wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

Sorc is the strongest class right now to say other wise is a bold face lie.Even sorc admit it.

I have no problem with sorc but to say there not strong is a lie.

Ranged magblade is stronger if you do the same things a sorc does.

Its true a magblade will destroy a mag sorc in a 1v1.

Thats not what he said.

Lexxypwns

Biro123 wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

Classes have counters. You either aren't playing yours correctly or you're not on a counter.

Example, MagDK, Stamplar and Magplar.

Otherwise it's all about catching someone slipping. Shields don't mean anything if they're not up. Stall their resources.

I agree the only problem is a lot of sorcs are wearing double sustain sets so it's impossible to do that now. I'm pretty sure it's cp and sets that's making shields unbalanced. Really if they just get rid of bastion shields would probably balance themselves out or either make a damage shield cap out at like 8k.

If you're wearing 2 sustain sets you are losing out on utility or damage, that's a fair trade off. These sorcs still have a painfully small burst window to get off their telegraphed damage. Sure, maybe you can't burst them if they just turtle and stack shields but they also can't put out threatening burst if you're built correctly. Poisons counter sustain sets anyway.

The sorcs that are "scary" are running either a damage or utility set. This gives them more effective burst or a longer burst window respectively, both of which allow the sorc to actually mount threatening offense.

I agree for 1v1 that sorc isnt scary at all. open world though it's incredibly strong maybe a little too survibable.especially if you fight multiple sorcs like this. You also can get pretty good damage with double sustain sets you can still get around 40k magicka and close to 3000 spell damage which is plenty of damage if you fight someone who is less survivalble. fighting multiple sorcs like this made me switch from necro to trasmutation in open world for more survivability because i never encounter just one sorc and multiple curses was hitting me too hard for the survivability they had. I think that's what makes sorcs very strong. They get much stronger the more sorcs there are. I think that's why majority of the player base is sorcs and where all the complaints come from.

Also i don't fell like 1v1 is away to judge balance because i can make a magblade build for 1v1 and it would probably seem like the best class in the game but open world it isn't nearly as good.

I think your numbers may be out. Been experimenting recently with a specific sustain set (and drinks) and necropotence, and struggle to reach 40k mag, with mage mundus. This us totally neglecting spell power, and leaving poor health and Stam. Idk how you can get those stats with 2 sustain sets on a viable build

2 sustain sets is fine for smashing pugs or shield stacking for ages against a single opponent not running poisons

thankyourat wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

Classes have counters. You either aren't playing yours correctly or you're not on a counter.

Example, MagDK, Stamplar and Magplar.

Otherwise it's all about catching someone slipping. Shields don't mean anything if they're not up. Stall their resources.

I agree the only problem is a lot of sorcs are wearing double sustain sets so it's impossible to do that now. I'm pretty sure it's cp and sets that's making shields unbalanced. Really if they just get rid of bastion shields would probably balance themselves out or either make a damage shield cap out at like 8k.

If you're wearing 2 sustain sets you are losing out on utility or damage, that's a fair trade off. These sorcs still have a painfully small burst window to get off their telegraphed damage. Sure, maybe you can't burst them if they just turtle and stack shields but they also can't put out threatening burst if you're built correctly. Poisons counter sustain sets anyway.

The sorcs that are "scary" are running either a damage or utility set. This gives them more effective burst or a longer burst window respectively, both of which allow the sorc to actually mount threatening offense.

I agree for 1v1 that sorc isnt scary at all. open world though it's incredibly strong maybe a little too survibable.especially if you fight multiple sorcs like this. You also can get pretty good damage with double sustain sets you can still get around 40k magicka and close to 3000 spell damage which is plenty of damage if you fight someone who is less survivalble. fighting multiple sorcs like this made me switch from necro to trasmutation in open world for more survivability because i never encounter just one sorc and multiple curses was hitting me too hard for the survivability they had. I think that's what makes sorcs very strong. They get much stronger the more sorcs there are. I think that's why majority of the player base is sorcs and where all the complaints come from.

Also i don't fell like 1v1 is away to judge balance because i can make a magblade build for 1v1 and it would probably seem like the best class in the game but open world it isn't nearly as good.

Sorc excels at destroying squishy targets. Since we are already in a low TTK meta, running a squishy build is a bad decision. The sorc burst is too telegraphed and ranged builds can be too easily LoS'd for a Sorc who is inferior to you in skill to be too much of a threat in any reasonable combat scenario(of course against 8 people the ranged DPS that you can't pressure us too strong).

Most specs in the game synergies best with itself and becomes exponentially stronger the more of them you have. Templars stack pol/potl. Sorcs stack curses, layer negates. Wardens rotate healing trees. NBs have combined stealth burst(bombs or ganks). This is a bad example of determining if a class is over performing since it indicates that only DK isn't

The only thing is i can disengage most other classes and then engage again you can't really do that with mag sorcs on top of that most classes damage is avoidable where as a large chuck of sorcs damage is not. Along with you will instantly die if you get to 20% health. I think only templar is similar i consider it the other Xv1 class that's why you see so many Templars and sorcs in pvp in my opinion. Nightblades are usually easy to deal with because i use detect pots and if in medium they will die to one good burst combo. Anything in stamina is easy to deal with really

So nightblades are easy to deal with because you run something to counter them? Please, please, spend a week or two running cost increase poisons on back bar and tell me if sorcs bother you still.

What sorc damage is unavoidable? Only crushing shock, which anyone can run.

Lexxypwns

exeeter702 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

Sorc is the strongest class right now to say other wise is a bold face lie.Even sorc admit it.

I have no problem with sorc but to say there not strong is a lie.

Ranged magblade is stronger if you do the same things a sorc does.

Mageblade should absolutely torch an equally skilled and geared sorc. There's just more experienced sorcs than mageblade because sorc WAS fotm and so strong for ages

exeeter702

Lexxypwns wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

Sorc is the strongest class right now to say other wise is a bold face lie.Even sorc admit it.

I have no problem with sorc but to say there not strong is a lie.

Ranged magblade is stronger if you do the same things a sorc does.

Mageblade should absolutely torch an equally skilled and geared sorc. There's just more experienced sorcs than mageblade because sorc WAS fotm and so strong for ages

Sigh.... a destro resto sorc from 28 meters will absolutely dominate the potential and reliable burst damage equation compared to a magnb.

The comment was not about a sorc vs a magnb, it was a comment stating that under the same scenario at the same range a magnb will outperfrom a sorc. That is a complete and utter joke. This has nothing to do with the sorc vs magnb matchup. Rarely do i lose to sorcs in duels as their are FAR more variables at play in both classes arsenal.

The shear burst potential and reliable method of acquiring and delivering it is leaps and bounds in mag sorcs favor. The shear maintenance of assasins will, the fact that half the time, strife weaving results in empty destro lights and merc resolve bugging out half the time is evidence enough. A magnb played from the same range has to play twice as well for even close to comparable results in actual pvp ie not duels.

Lexxypwns

exeeter702 wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

Sorc is the strongest class right now to say other wise is a bold face lie.Even sorc admit it.

I have no problem with sorc but to say there not strong is a lie.

Ranged magblade is stronger if you do the same things a sorc does.

Mageblade should absolutely torch an equally skilled and geared sorc. There's just more experienced sorcs than mageblade because sorc WAS fotm and so strong for ages

Sigh.... a destro resto sorc from 28 meters will absolutely dominate the potential and reliable burst damage equation compared to a magnb.

The comment was not about a sorc vs a magnb, it was a comment stating that under the same scenario at the same range a magnb will outperfrom a sorc. That is a complete and utter joke. This has nothing to do with the sorc vs magnb matchup. Rarely do i lose to sorcs in duels as their are FAR more variables at play in both classes arsenal.

The shear burst potential and reliable method of acquiring and delivering it is leaps and bounds in mag sorcs favor. The shear maintenance of assasins will, the fact that half the time, strife weaving results in empty destro lights and merc resolve bugging out half the time is evidence enough. A magnb played from the same range has to play twice as well for even close to comparable results in actual pvp ie not duels.

I don't experience the issues you seem to on mageblade.
Mageblade counters mines, has the stam sustain to block EVERY SINGLE *** FRAG, has similar burst potential, better CC, better pressure, and better healing.

I'm sorry, but not being able to weave funnel? Gtfo, just because it has different timing from other animation canceling Does not make it difficult. Good mageblades reliably proc the bow, period. That's like a sorc failing to use a frag proc, lol.

The skill floor on sorc is really low and it punishes squishy builds and pugs that can't predict its burst. It's actually average or below average in most relevant pvp categories. Magplar, stam warden, mag warden are all capable of achieving more burst in a less telegraphed manner, with magblade, stamplar, and stam blade getting very similar burst. Everything except stam blade and mag DK are more survivable. All stam builds, any vamp, anyone with cloak + shadow image all have better mobility. Class ultis? Forget about it. Heals? None.

Joy_Division

Lexxypwns wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

Sorc is the strongest class right now to say other wise is a bold face lie.Even sorc admit it.

I have no problem with sorc but to say there not strong is a lie.

Ranged magblade is stronger if you do the same things a sorc does.

Mageblade should absolutely torch an equally skilled and geared sorc. There's just more experienced sorcs than mageblade because sorc WAS fotm and so strong for ages

Sigh.... a destro resto sorc from 28 meters will absolutely dominate the potential and reliable burst damage equation compared to a magnb.

The comment was not about a sorc vs a magnb, it was a comment stating that under the same scenario at the same range a magnb will outperfrom a sorc. That is a complete and utter joke. This has nothing to do with the sorc vs magnb matchup. Rarely do i lose to sorcs in duels as their are FAR more variables at play in both classes arsenal.

The shear burst potential and reliable method of acquiring and delivering it is leaps and bounds in mag sorcs favor. The shear maintenance of assasins will, the fact that half the time, strife weaving results in empty destro lights and merc resolve bugging out half the time is evidence enough. A magnb played from the same range has to play twice as well for even close to comparable results in actual pvp ie not duels.

I don't experience the issues you seem to on mageblade.
Mageblade counters mines, has the stam sustain to block EVERY SINGLE *** FRAG, has similar burst potential, better CC, better pressure, and better healing.

I'm sorry, but not being able to weave funnel? Gtfo, just because it has different timing from other animation canceling Does not make it difficult. Good mageblades reliably proc the bow, period. That's like a sorc failing to use a frag proc, lol.

The skill floor on sorc is really low and it punishes squishy builds and pugs that can't predict its burst. It's actually average or below average in most relevant pvp categories. Magplar, stam warden, mag warden are all capable of achieving more burst in a less telegraphed manner, with magblade, stamplar, and stam blade getting very similar burst. Everything except stam blade and mag DK are more survivable. All stam builds, any vamp, anyone with cloak + shadow image all have better mobility. Class ultis? Forget about it. Heals? None.

I think this is spot on. Of course, a skilled player can make a sorc look very strong, but I think that's the case for all classes.
Just because a class is the easiest to play does not mean it's the strongest.

Thogard

Just need one change to fix sorcs : shorten range of mage fury to 5m.

Xsorus

As someone who's played both a magicka sorc and a magicka nightblade (esp the nightblade) you have to be joking that when it comes to equal skill a magicka nb is Anywhere near a sorc.

Yes a magicka nb is super good; but you can achieve twice as more on a sorc with half the effort.

Make of that as you will.