PvE - MagDK needs a slight buff

Durham

sebban wrote: »

Notice: This post is about MagDK in a endgame PvE Trial environment compared to other well performing DD specs from my own experiences. If you want to talk PvP, argue that your personal spec needs a buff or compare other environments, please make your own thread. I will try to make suggestions that do not upset PvP balance. I do acknowledge that there are other DD specs that need buffs more than the MagDK, but that is not what I’m here to discuss today.


I’ve been playing my DK since the release of ESO. It's the class I love and always come back to. Imo, the MagDK right now performs pretty badly, probably worse than ever before when comparing to the dominant specs. While the DK was way too strong around release, I think it has been nerfed too hard and is now in a bad spot compared to other well performing DD specs. Before the resource nerf MagDKs were able to *just* barely sustain and that nerf hit very hard.


One of the big issues for the MagDK right now is that they are 100% dependent on the rest of the group for both sustain and damage. This is because of Flame Lash and Off Balance. If the target does not have a high Off Balance up time, MagDK DPS and sustain is terrible.

While it is possible to sustain if you swap to regen food and swap damage glyphs to regen glyphs, this lowers DPS too much to be competitive. Imo, only a Flame Lash build is able to compete.
MagDKs can only do close to proper, competitive, DPS if the target has a Off Balance up time of at least ~60-70%. If not, they don’t get enough Power Lash procs and both damage and sustain will go down hard. With the new Heavy Attack meta after the sustain changes, even if 3 people use Blockade of Storms with 100% up time, average Off Balance up time is only around 60%. This is barely enough to sustain.


Generally, the only useful things a MagDK brings to a group are Unrelenting Grip, Deep Breath and 10% increased fire damage from Engulfing Flames. Unrelenting Grip can be done by a DK Tank and while a AOE interrupt is very good in some circumstances, it’s extremely situational, and it can be replaced with a few simple bashes by anyone. 10% more Fire Damage is becoming less and less useful as stamina DDs become more prevalent and MagSorcs mostly do lightning and magic damage.


MagDKs take up a precious melee spot. ZOS continually design encounters that are punishing or dangerous to melee players and often design encounters that have a softcap on the number of melee DDs that will work. I will therefore compare the MagDK to both other melee DDs and also the MagSorc, the dominant Magicka DD.


Comparisons
Compared to the MagSorc, assuming high Off Balance up time, the MagDK has lower single target DPS and lower AOE DPS. The difference can be as small as ~2K or as large as ~10K. MagDK also has less survivability due to being forced into a sometimes dangerous melee spot and weaker shields. MagSorcs can even do more DPS than MagDKs while using a Heavy Attack build, negating any need for resource management, while MagDK DPS is completely dependent on resource management and being able to spam whip. Besides a few gimmick abilities, there are no reasons to bring a MagDK compared to a MagSorc.

Compared to other melee DDs, like StamDK and StamNB, MagDK DPS is consistently much lower in all circumstances. It’s not unusual for stamina DDs beat MagDK single target DPS by 8-10K. MagDK and stamina DDs have similar survivability due to Blade Cloak and Vigor. As with the MagSorc, with the exception of a few gimmick abilities, there is no reason to bring a MagDK compared to a Stam DD since a Stam DD would do much more damage in the same melee position.


Conclusions
MagDK DPS is lower than MagSorcs and much lower than stamina DDs even with high Off Balance up time. Stamina DDs do more DPS compared to MagSorcs, which is fine, since stamina DDs are forced into a melee position, but the MagDK does not. MagDK are too dependent on Off Balance to do good DPS. MagDK need a slight damage buff to be worthy of the melee position they occupy.


Suggestions
Standard of Might has been nerfed time and time again since release. Some nerfs were warranted, some were not. Ultimate cost or duration could be adjusted if ZOS are unwilling to adjust DoT damage or the % damage increased. This would however also buff StamDKs, which might not be what we want, as StamDKs already do very good DPS.
Lava Whip. If the cost of this ability was reduced, it would not be such a HUGE issue for MagDKs if off balance uptime is low. Off Balance uptime should be a nice buff, not required to do competitive DPS, as it is now.
Burning Embers and Engulfing Flames could both have their damage buffed without buffing StamDKs and without upsetting PvP since they can be cleansed. Make their durations match while you are at it and maybe even buff Burning Embers range to match Whip? Just wishful thinking I guess...
Eruption DOT can get increased damage. No buff to StamDKs and easy to avoid in PvP. Maybe even increase duration to 20s to be double that of Burning Embers and Engulfing Flames for an easier rotation.
Flames of Oblivion. While some argue that they want to old AOE version, I have a suggestion for a middle ground. Make the fireball hit with a small AOE around the target. Sync up the duration with the other abilities, 20s like Eruption above. Why do we have 4 abilities all with different durations?

If you have read this far, thank you for your time.


TL;DR: MagDKs need a slight damage buff. MagDKs are too dependent on Off Balance to do good DPS.

Not just PVE either PVP also... Stam DK in PVP was really hit hard... but DKs in general have been hit with nerfs for almost 2 years now...

Zedrian

In our trials guild the mDK has the same DPS than the mag sorcs, and below magicka Night blades.

Flame Lash and Battle roar provides amazing sustain, and while Mag Sorcs are out of magic doing heavy attacks on the 5th plate of Rakkhat, magicka DKs have 0 resource problems. Flame lash should be reworked because a free spammable that hits like a crystal frag is just crazy ^^

I do agree that Burning Embers's range is too short

Anhedonie

ZOS won't buff magDK ever.
Just reroll as stamdk.

Saint_Bud

Nearly all magicka classes have huge problems at the time. Stam habe the huge advantage in high dps, really good damage mitigation and the important think, there playstile feels fast. Magicka feels slow and a change to the sustain would be nice for all or give staffes same fast heavy attacks as dw. Poisens are for most players no option because its to expensive. For higher risk melle players should be able do to more damage then range. A easy buff would be to increase the duration of eruprion and inferno to 20 sec that it feels much better in the rotaion. Also a damage buff to engulfing flames and eruption, also the radius of this skill shoulb be increased. An other option can be to buff the damage and time of spikes armour that it works similär to stam sorcs huricane. Inferno should be aim on a target and not shoots random. Also a look in the passives would be nice. The coast of the skills from ardrent flame are ok to other classes damage skills, but the rest still have the coast of the time when dynamic ulti regen where im the game.

But i dont think that there will some help for magicka in pve, not only mdk.

Sanctuary

Zedrian wrote: »

In our trials guild the mDK has the same DPS than the mag sorcs, and below magicka Night blades.

Flame Lash and Battle roar provides amazing sustain, and while Mag Sorcs are out of magic doing heavy attacks on the 5th plate of Rakkhat, magicka DKs have 0 resource problems. Flame lash should be reworked because a free spammable that hits like a crystal frag is just crazy ^^

You should ask your mDKs before making such statements on resource management. You could be surprised.

Hamburglarjones

Zedrian wrote: »

In our trials guild the mDK has the same DPS than the mag sorcs, and below magicka Night blades.

Flame Lash and Battle roar provides amazing sustain, and while Mag Sorcs are out of magic doing heavy attacks on the 5th plate of Rakkhat, magicka DKs have 0 resource problems. Flame lash should be reworked because a free spammable that hits like a crystal frag is just crazy ^^

I do agree that Burning Embers's range is too short

Do you have any experience yourself?

Apherius

SelfTherapy wrote: »

I hit pretty hard on my mag dk, silk of the sun, moon dancer, maelstrom staffs. But there's always someone "hey man, can you get on your sorc" like really..

but when you pull good dps , nobody is here for say you " it's because you are a sorc " , it's frustrating .
You can also change your skill / cp and be able to tank HL trials ..... while with a sorc you can only dps ( yeah .. ok you can also tank , but everybody know that the DK tank is better ... cause there is more useful skill / passif ...)

i would love to be Magplar or Magdk , pull good dps ... don't suffer all these " nerf sorc thread " ... have a better gameplay .. be able to heal or tank or dps simply by switching my cp's and skills ( with training of course ) , but my main is a sorcerer and all my achievement ( 25 525 points ) / motifs are on him .
Now i'm just waiting for a class change token / achievement bound to account , because all these " nerf sorc thread " who have put in the head of all my guildmate that the sorc is OP ( he have a good dps , but it's not the class that make the guy [ french expression ] ) ... these thread have also destroy my pleasure when i'm on my sorc .

Banana

Standard of might costing only 200 again would be a good start